Nov 09 2020
12:29 AM veegee_ is now known as veegee
12:35 AM Deejay: moin
01:20 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
04:19 AM jymmmm: Morning
04:58 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:00 AM jymmmm: Mornng
05:30 AM JT-Cave: I have a vibration in my van, finally traced it down to the left rear tire it's coming apart. I usually replace both tires per axle, the right rear is about 1/2 worn.
05:31 AM JT-Cave: a couple of years ago I had a blow out and replace both tires, which left me a 1/2 worn out tire to use today to fix the van and now I don't have to look at that tire sitting on top of the wood rack anymore lol
05:32 AM XXCoder: lol
05:37 AM jymmmm: haha, nice
05:51 AM Loetmichel: thats how you get a messy shed. "never throw something away, you might one day use it!"... Believe me, i know... :)
05:52 AM Loetmichel: you know, the mustie1 or elderly iron kind of "stash"
05:58 AM JT-Cave: I used the GlüBot yesterday and I wish I had found it a long time ago
06:03 AM Tom_L: morning
06:04 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:04 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Spindle/Belt_Guard1.jpg
06:05 AM Tom_L: i think i can call it done
06:06 AM Tom_L: 64F hi 68 and wind
06:08 AM JT-Cave: ready to rock and roll now
07:32 AM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
08:02 AM gloops: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54873105?at_custom4=16399236-2283-11EB-854F-E8870EDC252D&at_medium=custom7&at_custom1=link&at_custom3=Regional+BBC+Yorkshire+&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_campaign=64&fbclid=IwAR3w3Zty7Nj4wGqioMppnfksgt6jKufQbDVj5DtahZ0OEqZ1uxIxvFSfUV0
08:02 AM gloops: looks like you americans have a covid vaccine - announcement of that was well timed lol
08:13 AM gregcnc: enjoying the movie?
08:16 AM gloops: i just posted for XXCoder really, he seemed pretty concerned about covid
08:24 AM gregcnc: dark winter and all
08:24 AM gregcnc: warm day today. try to get some rc flying in before winter or run the lathe...
08:25 AM Tom_L: what do you fly? planes or copters?
08:25 AM gregcnc: airplanes
08:25 AM Tom_L: there's a big plane club around here or used to be anyway
08:25 AM Tom_L: since we're the 'air capitol'
08:26 AM Tom_L: one time they all did a cross country fly from the back of pickups
08:26 AM gregcnc: yeah. i should move out there and work in UAV
08:26 AM Tom_L: started at the field and ended at my bud's dad's airport
08:26 AM gregcnc: I always wanted to try that
08:26 AM Tom_L: it's harder than you think
08:27 AM Tom_L: navigating something in a moving vehicle
08:27 AM gloops: someone here used to cut balsa plans out for airplane kits on a plywood cnc, cant remember who now
08:27 AM gregcnc: really?
08:27 AM Tom_L: the plane wants to go faster than the vehicles so you do alot of circling\
08:28 AM Tom_L: one guy got his stuck in some trees :)
08:28 AM gregcnc: yeah most any airplane will easily cruise at 60MPH
08:28 AM gloops: yeah remember the photos, apparently it had been run as a business, making loads
08:28 AM Tom_L: anyway. i'm off
08:28 AM gregcnc: how long ago i don't rmember any mentions
08:28 AM gloops: pff when i first started talking about building a router, 4-5 years
08:29 AM Tom_L: i never did fly but did race model boats
08:29 AM Tom_L: i knew most of the guys
08:29 AM gloops: thought about it myself, doesnt seem to be any cheap vendor for sheet balsa here
08:29 AM gregcnc: not anymore balsa is going crazy
08:30 AM Tom_L: later..
08:30 AM gregcnc: wind turbine mfg are eating it up
08:30 AM gregcnc: take care
08:48 AM _unreal_: ????????????? wtf???
08:48 AM _unreal_: just found my mach3 software
08:48 AM _unreal_: and AVG is saying it has a virus
08:48 AM _unreal_: thaa faaaac
08:49 AM gregcnc: i think this is a known issue
08:49 AM _unreal_: I have a freaking 12 year old copy lol
08:49 AM _unreal_: legal copy
08:49 AM gloops: it will be the patch
08:50 AM _unreal_: patch?
08:50 AM gregcnc: google pretty sure it was common at one time
08:50 AM gloops: yah the registration patch
08:50 AM gloops: if warez
08:50 AM sensille: try virustotal.com
08:50 AM _unreal_: I JUST siad legal version
08:51 AM gloops: well, suppose it depends where you got the legal version haha
08:52 AM _unreal_: freeavg says it cleaned the virus
08:52 AM _unreal_: but WTF?
08:53 AM _unreal_: I've been searching my old drives for it for ever
08:53 AM _unreal_: just found it
08:53 AM _unreal_: on an old burned cd
08:53 AM sensille: most av-engines have some heuristics that sometimes fail
08:53 AM sensille: at least you still have a copy
08:54 AM _unreal_: ya
08:54 AM _unreal_: going to install it on the flat panel computer
08:55 AM _unreal_: if I can get the mach3 up and running quickly with the mesa card I'll just give up on the lcnc for now
08:55 AM _unreal_: I have to have full function with out risk of complication and issues
08:55 AM _unreal_: for having my CNC machiune at work
08:56 AM _unreal_: ! thats why
08:56 AM gregcnc: just wait until mach crashes on you
08:56 AM _unreal_: ok now I remember
08:56 AM _unreal_: I purchased it years ago
08:57 AM _unreal_: BUT I did the demo liked it, cracked it then ended up buying the full copy
09:02 AM rs[m]: mach 3 works with mesa ethernet cards? really?
09:05 AM _unreal_: yes
09:05 AM _unreal_: I believe so
09:16 AM * JT-Cave thinks he is missing some of the conversation lol
09:57 AM unterhaus_: wasn't mach4 the first to work with external hardware?
10:08 AM rs[m]: mesa doesn't mention it to be "mach capable"; the only mention of mach is in the context of BOBs
10:55 AM unterhaus_: seems like making some of the fpga cards mach capable would be a good thing
11:00 AM rs[m]: unterhaus_: then you probably need to hire a bunch of support people that explain the difference between "sourcing" and "sinking" inputs and outputs and that you need a return connection (e.g. ground) all the time
11:01 AM unterhaus_: seems like there is a pretty decent community for mach
11:02 AM unterhaus_: IDK, PCW is a smart person, if he wanted to take on that business he would have
11:03 AM rs[m]: linux is the future anyways ;)
11:07 AM unterhaus_: I didn't see how mach was sustainable unless they adopted the complexity of lcnc
11:08 AM unterhaus_: 3 axis limitation was always their advantage
11:08 AM enleth: unterhaus_: the majority of their install base is probably plasma cutting tables that any moron and their dog can put together and operate
11:09 AM unterhaus_: that's not counting all the warez installs
11:09 AM enleth: more plasma tables
11:09 AM rs[m]: rigidity and accuracy doesn't matter that much with plasma either
11:10 AM enleth: this exactly
11:10 AM enleth: parts are going to be welded and brought to the final dimensions with an angle grinder anyway
11:11 AM rs[m]: negligible cutting forces
11:17 AM unterhaus_: For extremely petty reasons, I always wanted to write a parport driver for lcnc that captured a timer interreupt
11:25 AM unterhaus_: what do the Chinese call their 80/20 compatible t-nuts
11:25 AM unterhaus_: ?
11:27 AM unterhaus_: okay, found them 2020 Series T Nuts
11:59 AM _unreal_: and there it is mach3 is working
12:00 PM _unreal_: I sware I read an entire page about using mesa on mach and I cant find anything now
12:00 PM _unreal_: regardless I have a mach3 controller card
12:11 PM rs[m]: unreal: what was the reason to attempt to change to linuxcnc?
12:33 PM Centreline: Evening all
01:00 PM _unreal_: I dont have a wide screen display
01:00 PM _unreal_: for starters
01:00 PM _unreal_: I installed VCP and its not working at all
01:01 PM _unreal_: dont know what I need to do
01:01 PM _unreal_: loads but zero control even for what I cna see on the display
01:01 PM _unreal_: I have na other computer
01:01 PM _unreal_: that has a wide screen but its NOT suitable for lcnc
01:01 PM _unreal_: its an all in one
01:01 PM _unreal_: HP1155
01:02 PM _unreal_: at this point I have the EAGLE motion controller working NOT wired to anything but working, all plugins up and running
01:02 PM _unreal_: and I just got my 6 axis pendent up and running and comunicating with mach3
01:07 PM rs[m]: unreal: i wanted to know the opposite, why did you attempt to run linuxcnc instead of mach3
01:10 PM _unreal_: I'm still planning on using lcnc
01:10 PM _unreal_: but I HAVE TO HAVE something working NOW with out issues
01:10 PM _unreal_: I bring in the computer with mach3
01:10 PM _unreal_: wired up
01:11 PM _unreal_: to the mach3 controller and it works I can then have time to tune AND SOLVE and get all the features of the lcnc machine working
01:11 PM _unreal_: besides my mach3 motion controller is only a 4 axis
01:11 PM _unreal_: time for lunch
01:11 PM _unreal_: I need the 5 axis but I dont have 5 working axis let alone 3 right now :)
01:12 PM rs[m]: what are you doing with 5 axis?
01:12 PM rs[m]: how do you generate 5 axis milling programs? i think that is non-trivial.
01:13 PM rs[m]: and it seems fusion rent-walled that functionality
01:16 PM enleth: rs[m]: it's still orders of magnitude cheaper than any alternative, pays for itself with one commercial job that actully neede the paid features
01:16 PM enleth: *needed
01:17 PM enleth: and that's only if you couldn't get the new "startup" license
01:19 PM W1N9Zr0: "swarf" and "multi-axis contour" ops are still included in base package, "rotary" (mill-turn style stuff) is the only 4/5-axis op in the paid extensions so far
01:20 PM enleth: nice to know
01:21 PM enleth: I was able to get a startup license by stating "sometimes I work as a contractor for startups, I need to be able to collaborate in F360 to work for them"
01:22 PM enleth: almost literally that wording
01:22 PM enleth: and the fact that I don't exceed their income limit for startups
01:25 PM W1N9Zr0: not that their paid extensions aren't scummy. the goofiest thing in there is "path trimming": in case their CAM generates collisions or some other bad path, you can manually trim it!
01:26 PM _unreal_: rent walled?
01:26 PM _unreal_: I own fusion
01:26 PM _unreal_: fusion360
01:27 PM W1N9Zr0: Manufacturing Extensions are an extra fee, you buy monthly or per-use credits to use them
01:27 PM _unreal_: ok thats it all the software is setup
01:27 PM enleth: _unreal_: did they at some point offer permanent licenses? I can't recall anything like this
01:27 PM _unreal_: now I just need to swap controllers
01:27 PM _unreal_: they have a perm license it just costs money
01:28 PM _unreal_: funny thing is I had a start up license, some how they fucked it up and it was a non expiring full function license.
01:28 PM _unreal_: IF i HAD only known
01:28 PM _unreal_: I fucked it up by buying a license
01:28 PM rs[m]: there is no such option here
01:28 PM rs[m]: i can rent it for 3 years for 1k3€
01:29 PM _unreal_: they HAD an error in my account
01:29 PM _unreal_: I'll never forget the woman saying wait a min. what the hell
01:29 PM _unreal_: litterly said what the hell
01:30 PM _unreal_: and described what she was seeing. I was like PAY NO ATTENTION not important ignore it I'm buying
01:30 PM _unreal_: the second she said something I was like FAAAAQ
01:30 PM _unreal_: IF i HAD only known
01:33 PM enleth: if only they could *finally* fix the damn login process - I have full disk encryption, 2FA system logon, a virtualized, firewalled and snapshotted Windows instance for CAD stuff - and it *still* expects me to log in manually almost every time it starts
01:33 PM enleth: as if it was the most security critical thing ever
01:33 PM enleth: can't even remember the damn email address, have to type *that* in every time as well
01:33 PM rs[m]: don't restart
01:34 PM enleth: that's basically what I'm doing, the VM gets suspended most of the time I'm done with it
01:34 PM enleth: but it's still just fucking stupid
01:35 PM enleth: I'd have an easier time making a regular computer remember the login credentials to my *bank* - not that I ever indent to - than to F360
01:36 PM W1N9Zr0: you could use an autohotkey script to automate the login
01:36 PM enleth: and that's what I did before the VM
01:37 PM enleth: but it shouldn't have been necessary
01:38 PM enleth: there's a whole bunch of other dumb usability issues like this in F360 that they can't seem to be able to look into and fix and it's been years for some of those
01:43 PM centreline: its discussions like this that always remind me of how lucky I am to have access to a copy of sw and camworks...
01:43 PM gregcnc: it's not stopping a lot of shops form using it
01:44 PM Tom_L: i'm glad my cad cam is old and tired and not on the cloud and paid for
01:44 PM centreline: I have a issue with a mesa 5i25 and spindle encoder, I've wired up a AMT102 to the encoder input on it, and I see count going up, but raw latched isnt incrementing
01:44 PM Tom_L: i just wish it did 5 axis even though i probalby wouldn't use i
01:44 PM Tom_L: it
01:45 PM centreline: do I need to do any config inside hal to tell it to use the latch to reset the count?
01:45 PM Tom_L: i can't remember that one
01:45 PM enleth: centreline: yeah, but the price of that package is absolutely prohibitive for anyone just starting out, unfortunately - and I still hope F360 is the kick in the ass this industry needs to start offering more entry-level solutions
01:46 PM centreline: I cut my headstock down by another 25mm to get room for the encoder if anyone is following that saga still
01:46 PM centreline: and had to lean the mill forward by about 10 degrees to get clearance to fit said encoder :)
01:46 PM Tom_L: i think i remember something about that
01:46 PM centreline: only while fitting, its level again now with about 10mm to the concrete celing
01:47 PM XXCoder: tom problem with 5 axis you need large space for 5 axis volume
01:47 PM XXCoder: lot of machinary for that
01:47 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, i'm aware of the issues
01:47 PM XXCoder: you could add 5 axis to your mill actually
01:47 PM Tom_L: my kids both learned 5 axis programming on catia
01:48 PM Tom_L: even though it's not widely used here
01:48 PM Tom_L: mastercam seems to be in smaller shops
01:48 PM XXCoder: im not sure what shop i used to work at uses
01:48 PM Tom_L: but if they want work they just about have to get catia
01:49 PM Tom_L: i like it better than solidworks
01:49 PM XXCoder: i guess its expensive
01:49 PM Tom_L: yes
01:49 PM centreline: my son's uni is teaching sw, but theyre using 2014 or something ancient in the lab
01:49 PM Tom_L: depending on the options
01:49 PM Tom_L: there are many many options
01:50 PM XXCoder: looks almost like freecad lol
01:50 PM Tom_L: i took a few classes just to see and it was ver 5, the last non cloud one
01:52 PM XXCoder: interesting. wonder how legal that one was. probably is legal just dont want to have cloud requirement
01:52 PM centreline: cloud is just a excuse to have a way to turn off the tap if you dont pay
01:52 PM centreline: and I work for a company making a cloud product...
01:53 PM centreline: we could do on prem easy, but they wont because they dont want to deal with licensing/piracy issues
01:53 PM centreline: so instead we're ignoring about half our potential customer base...
01:53 PM centreline: not my circus, not my monkeys, I just make bits for the backend code...
01:54 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest13297
01:54 PM XXCoder: we blame you
01:54 PM XXCoder: kidding
01:54 PM centreline: you can, but I'll be crying on the way to the bank with my filthy lucre :D
01:54 PM XXCoder: even if you directly work on cloud stuff i wouldnt look down on you
01:56 PM centreline: cloud also = available anywhere with zero install and remote working, so if that mattters its a plus
01:56 PM enleth: oh, and if only SW wasn't so butt ugly as well
01:56 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/practice_drawings/%2352_offset_extrude.jpg
01:56 PM Tom_L: that was a fun one
01:56 PM centreline: and in current times we're doing ok as a result...
01:56 PM enleth: did they at least learn of the fancy new "anti-aliasing" thing in the new versions?
01:57 PM centreline: do you need pretty in a cad tool?
01:57 PM XXCoder: lack or few competitions = "meh dont need to work hard on new version"
01:57 PM gregcnc: if you buy all the competition....
01:57 PM enleth: centreline: a little bit, yeah - it's a visual tool, things like properly implemented AA make it easier on the eyes
01:58 PM enleth: centreline: AA and good font rendering are the two most important things, IMO
01:58 PM centreline: I started cad on a workstation running on a amber screen connected to a vax, so meh
01:58 PM Tom_L: i started cad on dos 6.22
01:58 PM Tom_L: so meh
01:58 PM Tom_L: :)
01:59 PM enleth: I remeber those too, but that doesn't mean I can't benefit from something better
01:59 PM enleth: crisp, properly hinted fonts really do make a difference
02:00 PM centreline: I was just pleased when I could upgrade to 2016 and get threading instead of having to extrude threads
02:00 PM centreline: which matters, because now I can 3d print threads that work on a sla printer easier, I don't care about anti aliasing :)
02:01 PM centreline: its probably fair to say I dont use many of sw's advance featureset
02:02 PM gregcnc: what did you spend on camworks?
02:04 PM centreline: I didnt, its not mine personally I just get to use it
02:04 PM gregcnc: ah
02:05 PM centreline: hence the being so glad I have access
02:05 PM enleth: centreline: you know, I've been using computers long enough that I had been on your side of the "I don't need that newfangled fancy stuff, I'm fine" argument in many areas, many times - and experience has taught me that oftentimes, I've actually been wrong and I'd have benefitted immediately had I tried out the new thing sooner
02:06 PM enleth: doesn't stop me from saying that I don't need the newfangled fancy stuff, so I understand where you're coming from
02:06 PM centreline: I have tried later versions, and I'm certainly open to new things
02:07 PM centreline: but its a tool, and it does what i need it to do for the minimal amount of time I use it
02:08 PM enleth: it's just that *good* font rendering is extremely hard to get right and traditionally, it never worked well in most UI toolkits, *especially* any made in-house by software vendors - so we all simply had gotten used to shitty fonts, it's always been the normal way they looked
02:08 PM enleth: so when software vendors are finally starting to get it right, it can make a hugely unexpected difference
02:09 PM centreline: I'm at the "does this work and do what I need it to do" "yay it does" level of usage anyway
02:10 PM centreline: I have enough battles covering all the myriad of different packages to do different things as it is, and I keep vm's round for some hardware as it needs weird toolchains or specific versions
02:10 PM centreline: my romer cmm uses power inspect from like 2006 I think it is
02:10 PM centreline: because its what it was licensed for (and the last version of PI you can run dongle free, and if said dongle ever breaks, you can not buy a replacement as its nla)
02:11 PM centreline: does it collect co-ordinates and points I can suck into other stuff? yes, who cares if it has to run in a vm with windows 98 on it
02:11 PM enleth: yep, I can see why you're sticking to what you have
02:11 PM centreline: I'm sofware vendors worst nightmare...
02:12 PM enleth: nevertheless, I sure do hope the vendors of all CAD/CAM tools will finally get things right when it comes to their software not being just fucking ugly
02:13 PM enleth: because it *does* make a difference, even if it's not huge or immediately obvious
02:14 PM enleth: maybe in how tired and frustrated you are at the end of the long day staring at it and using it
02:14 PM centreline: they will have all moved to cloud only by then, and people will get nostalgic about when you could actually run the software you paid for offline
02:15 PM centreline: that's another difference, I spend all day staring a terminal and vscode, I do this for fun :)
02:16 PM centreline: I worked one place where they spent two weeks and a team of about 30 to decide what the icon for a feature looked like, and the people who wrote the feature was a team of 2 who knocked it off in a week...
02:17 PM centreline: and the icon was delivered late and it missed the deadline...
02:17 PM enleth: that's just bad management, and it's only superficially related to my point
02:17 PM enleth: "something visual", eh.
02:17 PM centreline: maybe I just like to get things done is my point, form follows function
02:18 PM enleth: but form shouldn't get in the way of function
02:18 PM centreline: does this tool do x, yes? its good. Ship it, let the ui people fight over the nuances.
02:19 PM enleth: but in CAD, the UI *is* the tool
02:19 PM enleth: maybe except OpenSCAD
02:23 PM centreline: you will get nice fonts and a prettier ui, but the price will be online only as the carrot and stick
02:23 PM centreline: that's the business model that vendors want to move towards
02:24 PM centreline: and I can see why, we have a product thats offline as well as cloud, and it probably is one of the most pirated pieces of software in its software category
02:25 PM centreline: before working there, I kept running into it in industry and huge bluechips with branches in multiple countries would have like 4 licenses to cover 800 users and just pretend to book them out when needed
02:27 PM enleth: centreline: which is why I would have preferred to get those things earlier and I consider their lack to be the software vendors just not doing their jobs properly, mostly out of ignorance and incompetence
02:27 PM enleth: there's no law of physics saying that a good UI is only possible in a subscription-based product
02:27 PM centreline: dassult probably have a tiny amount of programmers working like dogs permanently on new hidden features and bugs, and the rest is sales/marketing/etc
02:28 PM enleth: however, there is an important coincidence of subscription-based software increasingly using browser engines for rendering
02:28 PM enleth: and those absolutely do get fonts and AA right
02:28 PM enleth: so, vendors are getting those things for free now
02:28 PM centreline: yes because you can offload the cost to 3rd parties
02:29 PM centreline: no more ui crashing bugs, attack footprint reduced to a small api to interact etc.
02:29 PM enleth: and I honestly prefer using the new tools, despite their drawbacks, because it's just easier on the eyes
02:30 PM enleth: BTW, I am a heavy terminal user - it's definitely the most used program I have and it's been that way for a very long time now
02:31 PM centreline: I have a choice of 4 ide's at work for our codebase, and the rest of the team are on a different one because it looks nicer, and I use vscode because it is faster/more responsive even if its less eyecandy, so we'll probably have to differ on that viewpoint :)
02:31 PM enleth: and I made damn sure that the terminal emulator I'm using renders fonts *perfectly* crisp
02:31 PM centreline: I'd use shell and vi but we can't hook the debug calls from child processes in it...
02:31 PM enleth: can't stand fuzzy-fonted terminals
02:32 PM centreline: I'm going to have to take my encoder off and look at the wiring again aren't I...
02:33 PM centreline: When checking a connection involves the toe jack and being careful...
02:34 PM centreline: what I dont understand is hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.rawlatch has 8447 counts on it, but isnt incrementing
02:35 PM enleth: still better than checking resolver connections on an industrial robot, where you have to climb onto the thing and some measurements can only be done when it's moving
02:36 PM enleth: that might've been the most non-OSHA-compliant thing I've done so far
02:36 PM gregcnc: kuka rodeo?
02:36 PM centreline: there's a theme park near here uses a cell of kulka industrial robots with seats with harnesses in them as a ride
02:36 PM centreline: "dancing with robots" its pretty intense and you have to sign disclaimers to go over level2
02:37 PM enleth: gregcnc: that KR200 could easily do that, yeah
02:37 PM enleth: 200 is for maximum payload in kilograms
02:39 PM enleth: centreline: https://youtu.be/q3KLTfRr90c?t=20
02:40 PM centreline: https://youtu.be/8WEF83NRq30?t=65
02:40 PM enleth: there was a better quality version somwhere, but I can't find it
02:41 PM centreline: Ive done that ride with my son, its pretty intense on level3
02:41 PM centreline: I think I'll give level4 a miss on account of wanting discs in my spine afterwards :)
02:44 PM enleth: there's a joke in the industry along the lines of "one thing those robots can't lift is all the safety paperwork they had to do to certify them for waving humans around"
02:45 PM centreline: futuroscope managed it somehow, but then they also did same for crushers coaster, which my wife thought would be a gentle kids ride :D
02:46 PM centreline: and actually turned out to be a terrifying dark with strobe lighting inverted/rotating/backwards rollercoaster that left the kids sobbing
02:47 PM enleth: eh, that's a long solved problem, it's just an amusement ride, doesn't matter if it's scary as long as it's mechanically safe
02:47 PM centreline: or was that disneyland paris maybe...
02:47 PM enleth: but getting industrial robots cleared for *lifting* people? oh boy.
02:48 PM centreline: I have a strange urge for a cheap kulka, but I have no idea what I need one for
02:48 PM centreline: so just like the rest of my shop really
02:48 PM enleth: letting a trained professional work in the same cell in a factory as a regular industrial robot requires a ton of paperwork and additional safety hardware
02:49 PM centreline: and as a (different sort of) programmer by trade, rightly so!
02:51 PM centreline: we think we've covered every bug/use case, added 100's of unit tests, and all we're really testing is behaviour that has already gone wrong in the past
02:52 PM enleth: to be fair, robots are not like most CNC machines that will happily execute almost any input and smash themselves apart, they have many layers of sanity checks and safety active at all times
02:53 PM centreline: having caused major cloud outages in the past on systems that are also controlled and checked and monitored, excuse me if I don't have total faith in automated systems catching every problem case
02:53 PM enleth: on the other hand, they're much better equipped than CNC machines to suddenly crush a squishy human without so much as registering an overtorque event
02:55 PM centreline: different subject does anyone know anything indepth about renishaw imm/imp's on the probes?
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: any tips to avoid confusion between accounts or maximize credits for Fusion 360?
03:03 PM andypugh: No, as I am rather confused about my accounts, which seem to have been partially merged.
03:03 PM andypugh: (I think I actually have some kind of pro account at Ford’s expense and access to a few million dollars worth of cloud credits)
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: checking to see if i should avoid or encourage what happened here
03:04 PM XXCoder: sounds lijke db problem
03:05 PM XXCoder: there is one entry pointing to 2 entry for something. like account access funds
03:05 PM XXCoder: part 2 of interesting bearing https://youtu.be/iAnbDDctMu4
03:06 PM XXCoder: he makes something almost perfectly frictionless
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: looking at if i should get my own account vs have a vendor supply me with one
03:06 PM XXCoder: complex mill stuff
03:06 PM XXCoder: capt can always bill for part of your own account?
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: sure but the details often unwritten can make a difference
03:07 PM XXCoder: something clear and unamgious like "one month of"
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: and Autodesk seems to have recently changed the rule set
03:08 PM XXCoder: oh something about cant bill others autodesk usage?
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: not sure, I've not been following Autodesk products much
03:09 PM XXCoder: definitely have to read if youre thinking on plans and such
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: certainly
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: also have to see how to control access to shared files
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: you don't want to have different customers have access through your account to each others files
03:10 PM XXCoder: hmm yeah thats definitely a no
03:11 PM XXCoder: didnt think of that
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: especially if they are competitors
03:11 PM gregcnc: even early on I think they had sharing down
03:11 PM XXCoder: grat way to blow up your business if you leak such files
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: i have only used the viewer once or twice with partial success
03:12 PM gregcnc: at least when the people i was dealing with figured out I could still see their files after I backed out, they did stop sharing
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: heh
03:12 PM gregcnc: each file has permissions
03:13 PM gregcnc: or folder
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: large organizations use other modelling apps and generally only send us files
03:15 PM _unreal_: making my self some coffee then writing down more wiring
03:16 PM _unreal_: after that making the swap. pulling the mesa for the mach3 controller
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: they generally don't let you into their shared files or server
03:16 PM _unreal_: god I'm tired and I've been home al day
03:16 PM _unreal_: freaking hell yawning again
03:24 PM _unreal: ok now on the HP winows computer
03:24 PM _unreal: I really need to reload windows on thisthing
03:24 PM _unreal: I forget what I did but I dont think I hve a clean win in stall
03:24 PM _unreal: ?
03:24 PM _unreal: grantred tis computer is an other dumpster fine
03:24 PM _unreal: find
03:24 PM _unreal: from months ago
03:25 PM _unreal: sight. so much for it being dry
03:25 PM _unreal: just started pour again outside
03:33 PM _unreal: ?
04:01 PM centreline: humm encoder is config problem, I did a sets spindle-index-enable true, and rotated the spindle by hand, and it stays true until the same position each rotation
04:01 PM centreline: have to read the docs again...
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: anyone have a source for surplus screw compressors, just the pumps not the whole electric compressor?
04:15 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, you blow one up?
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: nope, just checking
04:18 PM gregcnc: not really a common item as that is the part that blows up
04:18 PM gregcnc: I think while I was looking a couple years ago i saw some pumps on Ebay, but not many
04:19 PM _unreal: surplus screw compressors LOL
04:19 PM _unreal: well then again there are so many businesses gong out right now they are prob plentaful on ebau
04:19 PM _unreal: EBAY
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: also very simple and tend to last unless you dump rocks or sand down them
04:20 PM Tom_L: go steal the blower off your neighbor's hot rod
04:20 PM centreline: hydrovane sell units without the tank etc and I think you can spec just the pump as a replacement part. But they are new screw compressor parts prices of course.
04:20 PM centreline: neighbor's hotrod blower turns into a heat pump past 12psi :D
04:21 PM Tom_L: likely so
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.gardnerdenver.com/en-us/hydrovane
04:22 PM centreline: oh neat, they actually promote selling air ends as a product
04:23 PM _unreal: I think I'm goin to wire my limit switches the same as I had them on the machg controller
04:23 PM _unreal: the mach controler has a lot of extra inputs if I do not use the onboard header which is for "" mpg ""
04:23 PM _unreal: but I have the pro wireless pendent mpg so no need for the onboard feature
04:23 PM _unreal: leaving me extra i/os
04:23 PM _unreal: air ends?
04:23 PM centreline: https://www.gardnerdenver.com/en-us/hydrovane/products/air-ends-and-oem
04:24 PM gregcnc: yeah the compressor portion
04:24 PM centreline: ie just the pump part of the compressor
04:24 PM centreline: I have lusted over a hydrovane for some years now, but never quite seemed to be in the right place at the right time yet
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.airends.com/products.htm
04:25 PM gregcnc: I need to figure out which automotive filter fits my compressor so as not to get robbed
04:26 PM gregcnc: https://www.ebay.com/itm/333257040582
04:27 PM * JT-Shop is sweating outside moving a mountain of leaves off the new born grass
04:35 PM _unreal: good lord this computer and internet just does not work well
04:35 PM _unreal: really need to do a clean install
04:44 PM W1N9Zr0: reinstall all the internets!
04:45 PM centreline: you can get windows in a vm from microsoft under their ies4win testing concept
04:45 PM centreline: then if you license it, its just a complete windows install in a vm
04:49 PM centreline: mach probably wouldn't like being in a vm though on reflection
05:24 PM _unreal: arg what a pain in the ass. I hav eto build the adapter to use any of the inputs....
05:24 PM _unreal: the 4 main inputs are opto isolated and require a 12-24v input :S
05:25 PM _unreal: no use for me because all intputs have a common common
05:25 PM _unreal: sigh
05:38 PM JT-Cave: anyone buy a motherboard lately with dual NIC's?
05:40 PM _unreal: hehe I've never really played with vm
05:40 PM _unreal: jt nope
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.serversupply.com/NETWORKING/NETWORK%20INTERFACE%20CARD/4%20PORT/IBM/39Y6136_113125.htm $15
05:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.serversupply.com/NETWORKING/NETWORK ADAPTER/2 PORT/INTEL/EXPI9402PFBLK_243830.htm
05:45 PM _unreal: CaptHindsight, are you in need of networking hardware?
05:45 PM _unreal: I have all kinds of networking hardware
05:45 PM _unreal: I'd love to sell
05:49 PM _unreal: interesting, with out all kinds of plugins mach3 doesnt even have the power of planetcnc software
05:50 PM _unreal: and we are talking by a long shot too
05:51 PM XXCoder: eh dunno id just disable onboard and have 2 nic cards
05:51 PM XXCoder: and not ones that offload stuff to cpu
05:51 PM * JT-Cave looks around but can't find the marktree or planetcnc in the header
05:52 PM JT-Cave: XXCoder, I have a couple of small format motherboards with dual NIC's makes it very convenient for Mesa Ethernet cards and being on the LAN with a small footprint
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: _unreal: do you have a chest freezer in the Chicago area for pickup today?
05:53 PM JT-Cave: LOL
05:53 PM XXCoder: nice. ya i was wondering about it hitting cpu though if it offloads to it
05:53 PM JT-Cave: I have one in Poplar Bluff you can pickup today
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: lol
05:54 PM JT-Cave: but you better hurry...
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Cave: are you guys still having summer temps there? It was 75F again here today
05:55 PM _unreal: heh chest freezer, I see them now and then at work being tossed out. still in working considtion
05:55 PM JT-Cave: yea, sweating my ass off moving leaves into a small mountain this afternoon
05:55 PM _unreal: its amazing what the super yachts throw away
05:55 PM _unreal: I have a bunch of server switches
05:56 PM _unreal: 20 port 50 port 80 port etc.. 1000bt
05:56 PM JT-Cave: CaptHindsight, the heat wave ends tomorrow night here
05:56 PM _unreal: heat hehe I want the water wave to end here
05:56 PM _unreal: one sec jumping to the other computer will post a video or two
05:57 PM * JT-Cave wonders why all the pullets are standing up on the perch...
05:57 PM CaptHindsight: the bird that flew into the shop for the night was not seen again the next morning
05:57 PM JT-Cave: oddly enough all 12 are facing forward tonight
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: I have a feeling I'll be surprised one day by flies or a pile of feathers when we move
05:58 PM JT-Cave: did it look poorly?
05:59 PM JT-Cave: or do you have a shop cat?
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: female cardinal, we tried to spook it out through the drive in door 12 ft high but it just would not fly low
05:59 PM _unreal_: https://discordapp.com/channels/717411348136460332/717411349541683212/775335217773805569
06:00 PM _unreal_: https://discordapp.com/channels/717411348136460332/717411349541683212/775336948804878366
06:00 PM _unreal_: check those out
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: it went to sleep as soon as the lights were out
06:00 PM JT-Cave: yea, it's a pain to get them out they want to fly up
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: i have a feeling it wasn't well since it settled down so quickly
06:01 PM _unreal_: check out those two links videos :)
06:01 PM _unreal_: after math and thats after it had gone down a lot
06:01 PM _unreal_: from the storm we just had go over us in south florida
06:01 PM JT-Cave: not sure about cardinal's but chickens can't see well at night so when the lights go out they just sit down
06:01 PM JT-Cave: time for the salad bar
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: 24ft ceilings here and no hiding up there
06:02 PM _unreal_: heh the water is up like 24" from the other day
06:07 PM _unreal_: what cha guys think?
06:15 PM t4nk_freenode: aint seen it, link wants me to log on
06:17 PM _unreal_: just examples of the massive flooding in my own back yard
06:18 PM t4nk_freenode: ah, so you had massive flooding in your own backyard
06:19 PM t4nk_freenode: age of Aquarius, Sir _unreal_.
06:47 PM _unreal_: I quit wtf?
07:37 PM XXCoder: interesting
07:37 PM XXCoder: https://www.banggood.com/0-300mm-Double-Column-Digital-Height-Gauge-Ruler-Vernier-Height-Ruler-Drawing-Head-Caliper-Marking-Ruler-p-1742073.html?utm_campaign=7585390_1425961&utm_content=10375&p=X!272175853902016119&ID=6292834&cur_warehouse=CN
07:37 PM XXCoder: cheap one. good enough for some level of precision
07:43 PM Tom_itx: so is a wood yardstick
07:43 PM Tom_itx: :)
07:43 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
07:43 PM Tom_L: it's probably decent
07:45 PM XXCoder: i wouldnt use at professional shop
07:45 PM XXCoder: but home sure
07:46 PM Tom_L: i'd be curious if it _would_ pass cert
07:46 PM XXCoder: yeah
07:46 PM roycroft: xxcoder - here's one you can get out of bellingham:
07:46 PM roycroft: https://www.grizzly.com/products/igaging-0-12-0-0005-digital-height-gauge-absolute-spc/t27481
07:47 PM XXCoder: i dont need one at this time
07:47 PM XXCoder: myfordboy bought it as reviewed it
07:47 PM Tom_L: 12" isn't very much
08:04 PM Tom_L: 18-24" is more common
08:11 PM _unreal_: sweet, just finished soldering/wiring my adapter
08:14 PM _unreal_: OH OH
08:45 PM unterhaus_: can't just say "OH OH" and leave it at that
08:46 PM unterhaus_: it's like the fire department rescuing someone 30 feed down a freeway embankment with a broken leg and not saying how they got there
09:13 PM t4nk_freenode: look man..
09:13 PM t4nk_freenode: we all know it
09:14 PM t4nk_freenode: what you actually mean is.. somebody call the fire department.. _unreal_ has lit up again
09:17 PM tiwake: where is the best place to get 80/20 extruded aluminum?
09:17 PM _unreal_: My OH OH was ment for an other channel
09:17 PM t4nk_freenode: as long as it was ment
09:18 PM _unreal_: I dont think yall could handle the content
09:18 PM t4nk_freenode: if any?
09:19 PM _unreal_: ?
09:39 PM Tom_L: next spindle test will be to see if i can use some of these now: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/Slitting_saw2.jpg
09:40 PM Tom_L: the sherline motor couldn't
09:40 PM Tom_L: well, the small one did fair
09:44 PM roycroft: i've never had any luck with slitting saws on my little mill
09:44 PM roycroft: my speculation is that the machine vibrates too much
09:45 PM Tom_L: you have to feed them slow with low rpm
09:45 PM roycroft: yes, i did so
09:45 PM Tom_L: it's about surface speed on those
09:45 PM roycroft: so slow the motor almost stalled out
09:45 PM roycroft: and very very slow feed
09:45 PM Tom_L: problem was, the sherline had absolutely no bottom end torque
09:45 PM roycroft: same with my machine
09:46 PM Tom_L: i can't stop this one at 100 rpm
09:46 PM Tom_L: (holding it)
09:46 PM roycroft: i've broken several slitting saws
09:46 PM roycroft: i feed really slowly at a really slow spindle speed
09:46 PM roycroft: i lubricate liberally
09:46 PM Tom_L: time will tell
09:46 PM roycroft: it seems to be going ok, then it breaks
09:47 PM Tom_L: the pinch?
09:47 PM roycroft: yes
09:47 PM Tom_L: probably
09:47 PM roycroft: and that's why i speculate vibration
09:47 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Cutter.jpg
09:48 PM Tom_L: then there's that monster
09:48 PM Tom_L: i doubt i ever use it
09:48 PM roycroft: that's a pretty big cutter
09:48 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/cutter2.jpg
09:49 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutters/cutter3.jpg
09:49 PM Tom_L: kindof odd
09:53 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, chines throwing star?
10:00 PM Tom_L: it could have the same effect