#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 29 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:22 AM veegee: I just realized that cars are connected to the transmission by their flywheel
12:28 AM veegee: well manual cars anyway
12:28 AM veegee: not a driveshaft
02:03 AM CaptHindsight: i use a water soluble binder for sand that can go up to 2200 C
02:36 AM Loetmichel: *giggle* just calculated: the pack of 80 brass sheets i lifted around in the shop yesterday was 53kg... no wonder that the temp worker looked at me like a ghost ;)
03:00 AM CaptHindsight: did you see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Away_(TV_series)
03:01 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: one at a time or all at once?
03:01 AM Loetmichel: all at wonce
03:01 AM Loetmichel: once
03:02 AM Loetmichel: hence the "papercuts on steroids" i now have in my right palm
05:14 AM jymmmm: morning
05:16 AM jymmmm: Carbon fiber heating wire, cheap enough to heat all your machines or chicken coops... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32899789365.html
05:16 AM XXCoder: fancy
05:17 AM jymmmm: I know some have issues with condensation,
05:17 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:17 AM XXCoder: yo
05:17 AM jymmmm: Morning JT
05:21 AM JT-Cave: your up early jym
05:22 AM jymmmm: JT Yeah, Haven't been able to sleep much lately.
05:24 AM jymmmm: OH BTW... I found a micro-crack in the brass of a airhose fitting, wouldn't have found it had I not done a soapy water leak test. Just thought I'd pass that info along.
05:25 AM JT-Cave: I have a few micro leaks in my machine shop air system, but I've not spent much time trying to find them
05:26 AM jymmmm: Well, this was propane, so more of a need to resolve ;)
05:27 AM XXCoder: yeah boom
05:28 AM JT-Cave: I had a major leak in my 330 gallon tank the fill valve failed while we were gone and dumped a lot of propane out.
05:28 AM jymmmm: OUCH that musta been expensive :(
05:28 AM JT-Cave: I've rebuilt both tanks with new valves and seals on the gauges
05:29 AM JT-Cave: it's fun to replace them, you have to wait for a really cold day and do it fast
05:29 AM XXCoder: thankfully even more expensive event didnt happen
05:31 AM JT-Cave: the tanks are outside so the propane disperses to less than combustible levels very quick
05:32 AM XXCoder: yea though chances could go bad
05:33 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: It's the main reason why you never bring propane tanks indoors
05:33 AM XXCoder: of course
05:34 AM JT-Cave: yea in a no wind condition with a ditch or something for it to accumulate in it could be bad
05:34 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: No no, I mean most things don't come with a hose long enough to run through the window, so ppl bring the tanks inside.
05:36 AM jymmmm: I love this stuff, cleans off engine grease and perfect soapiness for leak tests... https://www.dollartree.com/las-totally-awesome-all-purpose-cleaner-20oz/152664
05:38 AM jymmmm: also not bad at removing stains on clothing
05:40 AM JT-Cave: anyone like pickled eggs? not the red ones you see in a bar either
05:41 AM XXCoder: have not tried
05:42 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/recipes/snacks/pickled-eggs.html
05:42 AM JT-Cave: you can also pickle vegetables
05:43 AM JT-Cave: they are really good flavor
05:44 AM XXCoder: i really need to try drying stuff
05:44 AM XXCoder: i have food dryer for drying fili but its not used yet as well as try that
05:44 AM JT-Cave: fili?
05:45 AM XXCoder: filiment for 3d printer
05:45 AM JT-Cave: ah
05:45 AM JT-Cave: maybe that's why my filament won't print lol
05:45 AM XXCoder: whats symtoms anyway
05:46 AM JT-Cave: I've not tried to print anything in a long time... getting the first layer to stick IIRC
05:47 AM XXCoder: that tend to be by couple factors possibilities
05:47 AM XXCoder: surface isnt very clean or need prep on it
05:47 AM XXCoder: second possibility is nozzle isnt close enough on first layer
05:48 AM jymmmm: I made a simple 2W heater using 30ga NiChrome wire wrapped around a soapstone stick, then shrinktubing, and connected to a 12V walwort. Works really well for subtlely drying things out.
05:49 AM jymmmm: soapstone $0.99 https://www.harborfreight.com/flat-soap-stones-5-pc-60633.html
05:52 AM Tom_L: morning
05:52 AM XXCoder: o
05:52 AM jymmmm: Morning Tom_L
05:54 AM JT-Cave: yo Tom_L still snowing?
06:04 AM Tom_L: turned to rain yesterday
06:04 AM Tom_L: still raining
06:05 AM Tom_L: snow melted
06:12 AM jymmmm: During the blackout, the hose for my heater was clogged, spent 2 hours taking it it apart trying to clear it out. I had another hose luckily, then just picked up a propane filter at tractor supply. But here's a DIY reusable propane filter that can do 80K BTU... I got the screens for $2.40 locally, but got the wrong size springs DOH... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_D8OLNkrTY
06:16 AM XXCoder: ouch
06:18 AM jymmmm: Yeah, really bad timing to not have heat. Had I not have another hose, would have been a 120 mile trip to walmart for another hose.
06:19 AM XXCoder: yeah tech dont really like freezibng
06:20 AM XXCoder: you might have ended up with something or other die
06:20 AM XXCoder: thats not to menion any other humans or animals
06:21 AM jymmmm: For me it's a birds that need the heat, I have electric blanket if need be.
06:22 AM XXCoder: I use ac for heat, unless its below 30 then I use my room electric heayt
06:22 AM XXCoder: ac stops really working below certain temperate
06:22 AM jymmmm: deep cycle battery + inverter + electric blanket, as I don't run the generator when sleeping.
06:23 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: you might consider a heated mattres pad, the heat rises from under you. though electric blankets are cheaper.
06:23 AM XXCoder: still long blackouts?
06:23 AM jymmmm: Morning Deejay
06:23 AM XXCoder: nah it never gets that cold here
06:23 AM XXCoder: even if completely no heat i can sleep fine with couple blankets
06:23 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: last one was a couple days ago, 3 day blackout, but two in a week
06:24 AM jymmmm: gotcha
06:24 AM Deejay: hi
06:25 AM Spida: jymmmm, XXCoder: where are you located?
06:25 AM XXCoder: tacoma, wa
06:26 AM Loetmichel: given a good feather or plastic wool blanket i can sleep in -10°C no problem... why would one need a heated matress?
06:27 AM XXCoder: mine is ikea foam type natress
06:27 AM XXCoder: dense type
06:31 AM jymmmm: Spida: Northern California, at about 2500 elevation in the forest
06:32 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Heated mattress pad, so you don't freeze your ass off when you first get int bed =)
06:33 AM jymmmm: ...or your feet.
06:35 AM XXCoder: tough it u[
06:38 AM jymmmm: HA, not a chance if I can help it
06:41 AM XXCoder: theres places perfect for your deicate body... like calfornia
06:42 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: HAHA, fuck you and the covid infected airplane you rode in on =)
06:42 AM XXCoder: lol
06:51 AM jymmmm: Is there a correlation between AH and CCA? I see those jumppacks, and I know they are using Li-Poly/Li-Ion cells, but the most I've seen on those is like 50A draw.
08:01 AM JT-Cave: no, one is capacity and one is flow
08:56 AM gregcnc: two more weeks
09:13 AM * JT-Shop wonders where he put the steel he cut last night???
09:25 AM Spida: we have statistically 15minutes of blackout per year.... I got a 20 year dose last month (4hours + 1hour in 1 week after 20years continuos power)
09:35 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: i am pretty much pampered, having a water bed at hom
09:35 AM Loetmichel: e
09:35 AM Loetmichel: with two 300W heaters
09:36 AM Loetmichel: but i can and have slept in a normal bed with a normal box spring matress and just a single feather filled bedsheet in -10°C without any problems. Only thing is that you DONT want to get out of bed in the morning ;)
09:37 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: only a lose connection between Ah and CCA. and only between same chemistry batteries
09:37 AM Loetmichel: CCA is a function of plate SURFACE, while AH is a function of plate THICKNESS.
09:38 AM Loetmichel: ... which usually correlate, but only loosely
09:38 AM Loetmichel: Lithium batteries are capapble of a LOT more CCAs than lead-acid for the same Ah though
09:39 AM Loetmichel: For example: i have started my 2.5 liters straight six diesel with my copter battery packs multiple times. its a 230mAh 4s Lifepo pack. 600A peak (CCA): no problem at all.
09:40 AM Loetmichel: a small 4Ah motorcycle wet lead acid battery can MAYBE stem 80cca
09:40 AM Loetmichel: and thats already double the size and Ah of the model pack, and 5 times the weight
10:27 AM roycroft: hello, folks
10:27 AM roycroft: what are people using for pendant cables?
10:27 AM roycroft: i was looking at getting a nice coiled cable, but they're $150-$200, which is right out
10:29 AM Rab: How many conductors do you need?
10:29 AM roycroft: up to 25
10:29 AM roycroft: i have not added them all up yet
10:29 AM roycroft: but it's quite a few
10:29 AM roycroft: at least 15
10:30 AM roycroft: the coiled cables get really expensive when a lot of wires are involved
10:31 AM Rab: It seems to me that curly cord has a very unfavorable geometry for noise immunity.
10:32 AM roycroft: i need 14 wires just for a jog wheel
10:32 AM roycroft: well it's too expensive anyway, so that's not a concern
10:32 AM Rab: How's that?
10:32 AM roycroft: 4 for the jog wheel itself
10:32 AM roycroft: 6 for the axis selector switch
10:32 AM roycroft: 4 for the granularity switch
10:33 AM Loetmichel: Rab: you can make a curly cord yourself if you happen to have an approbiate sized spring and normal cable. But i would advise against doing "curly" with 25++ wires.
10:33 AM roycroft: that adds up to 14
10:33 AM Loetmichel: it just gets unyieldy
10:33 AM Rab: Loetmichel, oh yeah, I think I remember seeing somebody do that.
10:34 AM Rab: roycroft, have you considered a multifunction USB pendant? Even an off-the-shelf one?
10:34 AM Loetmichel: just use a plain cable and some box somwhere where you can store "excess" cable in a figure 8 loop and pull out as needed
10:34 AM roycroft: no, i don't want to do that
10:34 AM roycroft: i'm not a fan of usb generally, and i want an e-stop button on the pendant
10:34 AM roycroft: which can't be done with usb
10:36 AM roycroft: i just need to find a multiconductor flexible cable that will work well
10:36 AM roycroft: not a coiled one, unfortunately
10:36 AM roycroft: but something that flexes well like a microphone cable, but with enough conductors
10:36 AM Rab: You could have a few loops tethered on spring hangars.
10:37 AM Rab: I've seen commercial setups with cable loops hanging from a swinging track.
10:41 AM Rab: I agree that e-stop has no place on USB. For other functions, I have a breadboarded "pendant" using this: https://bitbucket.org/moonglow/openxhc/src/master/
10:41 AM JT-Shop: why so many conductors?
10:42 AM JT-Shop: https://mesaus.com/product/7i73/
10:42 AM JT-Shop: one cat 6 cable...
10:42 AM Rab: Nice product!
10:45 AM Rab: https://www.coaxifi.com/product-page/curlynet-spiral-coiled-ethernet-cable
10:46 AM Rab: This one seems a little more convincingly "cat6": https://www.coilcablespecialist.com/index.php?_route_=ethernet/28-awg-8-conductors-ecat6-shielded-slim-ethernert-coil-cable-ecat6em0s
10:49 AM JT-Cave: wow you can get that in 24 awg
10:49 AM Rab: Still no hard e-stop signal, unless you do some hackery with one of the 2x +5V or GND lines.
10:50 AM skunkworks: I have used the 7i73 - works great!
10:50 AM Rab: Yeah, heavier gauge would be better for this type of application.
10:50 AM roycroft: i have a 7i73
10:51 AM skunkworks: I have used shielded/stranded cat5 with good results..
10:51 AM roycroft: in fact, i was just reading about someone who used the internal connector on his 5i25 for his pendant
10:51 AM Tom_L: why so many wires then?
10:51 AM Tom_L: i used an old parport cable cause i had it
10:51 AM roycroft: and at first thought that might be a good idea
10:51 AM roycroft: but i need my e-stop wires to go to the controller, not the pc
10:51 AM roycroft: and i did not want two cables
10:52 AM roycroft: so using the 7i73 for the pendant and the control panel makes the most sense to me
10:52 AM roycroft: i've gotten over the idea of a coiled cable
10:53 AM roycroft: they're way too spendy
10:53 AM roycroft: and probably the coils would be stiffer than i'd want, with that many conductors
10:53 AM roycroft: so now i just want to find a super flexible cable
10:53 AM roycroft: as i said before, like a microphone cable, but with more conductors
10:53 AM JT-Cave: if it's made mcmaster will have it
10:54 AM roycroft: i'm not sure they would
10:54 AM roycroft: they're good for a lot of stuff, but when it comes to electrical, not so much
10:54 AM Tom_L: if you need that many get an old phone trunk cable :)
10:54 AM Rab: furiously searching
10:55 AM roycroft: i still don't know the exact wire count i need
10:55 AM JT-Cave: I'm sure the have what you need
10:55 AM roycroft: but it will be close to 25
10:55 AM roycroft: and not more than 25
10:55 AM Tom_L: i'm not sure how many i used but i'm sure it wasn't 25
10:55 AM roycroft: i'm not sure what wire gauge i need for this
10:56 AM roycroft: it would be nice if 26ga would suffice
10:56 AM roycroft: and i think it should
10:56 AM Rab: Well, they do have a 15-conductor cord for $123.79.
10:56 AM roycroft: and that's not enough
10:56 AM Rab: For the shorter version.
10:56 AM roycroft: as i said, i need 14 wires for the jog wheel
10:56 AM roycroft: add 2 for the e-stop
10:56 AM JT-Cave: continuous flex up to 50 wires
10:56 AM roycroft: and i'm already over that
10:57 AM roycroft: yeah, they actualy do
10:57 AM roycroft: i should not make assumptions
10:57 AM roycroft: i've mostly been disappointed when looking for electrical items at mcmaster
10:57 AM roycroft: but that automation cable might do the job
10:58 AM roycroft: and it's not even expensive
10:58 AM Rab: Binary controls like selector switches are pretty easy to multiplex.
10:58 AM roycroft: sure, but that won't save many wires
10:59 AM roycroft: i might save a wire or two on a 5 position selector switch
10:59 AM roycroft: but on a 3 position i won't save any
10:59 AM roycroft: and all the other switches will be single throw, either momentary or maintained
11:00 AM roycroft: i'll probably need 24 wires total
11:01 AM Tom_itx: SR2612F-0112-21R0B-D8-N
11:01 AM Tom_L: for the switch
11:01 AM Tom_L: up to 12
11:01 AM Tom_L: you can limit it to whatever
11:01 AM Rab: Interesting: https://www.mcmaster.com/cable/stretchable-cable/
11:02 AM Rab: If I ever ran across that stuff out in the wild, I'd assume the conductors were broken.
11:02 AM roycroft: i found a nice, low profile 5 position switch
11:03 AM roycroft: i don't have the link offhand, but it's in a spreadsheet
11:25 AM roycroft: i can save some wires by using one return for all the switches in the pendant, i suppose
11:25 AM roycroft: but i'll still need a lot
11:26 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Ok, I was more or less wondering if 200A (1c) LiFePO4 could jump start a gas 8cyl.
11:46 AM Loetmichel: 200Ah?
11:48 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Yeah, that's what they are rated at
11:49 AM jymmmm: 200A 1C
11:49 AM jymmmm: contonous discharge rate
11:49 AM jymmmm: they are also 200AH as well
11:49 AM roycroft: that seems a little small for starting an 8 cylinder engine
11:50 AM roycroft: if the engine is fuel ijected and in good tune it should start almost instantly, though, and that battery might suffice
11:51 AM jymmmm: roycroft: but realize that jumppacks aren't officilly rated for 800A either,
11:51 AM jymmmm: the cells that is
11:52 AM jymmmm: but they use LiPo, not LiFe either.
11:53 AM jymmmm: My LiPo cells are rated at 50C, so that gets me 400A burst
11:54 AM roycroft: *chuckle*
11:55 AM roycroft: tucker carlson reported last night that on monday he received a collection of documents about hunter biden that would cost his father the election
11:55 AM roycroft: he claimed he had the documents shipped to him via dhl
11:55 AM roycroft: but they "disappeared" en route
11:55 AM roycroft: and there are no backup copies of them
11:55 AM roycroft: the originals were what were shipped
11:57 AM jymmmm: And to moral of the story is.... If you are going to be a slimy politician, use DHL
11:58 AM Deejay: re
12:01 PM jymmmm: Hi Deejay
12:03 PM Deejay: heya jymmmm :)
12:03 PM roycroft: the moral of the story is: if you're going to try to lie like that at least be a a competent liar
12:03 PM jymmmm: ...and use DHL
12:04 PM roycroft: tucker won't tell us what damning evidence there is in the alleged documents
12:04 PM roycroft: i'm sure he'll let us know as soon as the audit is done
12:06 PM roycroft: but the base have a perfect argument to support carlson's story
12:06 PM roycroft: the report is that the envelope itself did not disappear
12:06 PM roycroft: but that it was opened in transit and the documents removed
12:06 PM roycroft: the "proof" that this story is real is that dhl will not allow one to ship an empty, open package
12:07 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i've ever seen any carrier requirement that a parcel must be sealed and have actual contents
12:08 PM roycroft: i should think that if i went to fedex, dhl, whatever and said "i want to pay you full price to ship this empty, unsealed envelope across the country" they would take my money
12:08 PM roycroft: but that fallacy notwithstanding, a story cannot be proven based on the story itself
12:16 PM unterhaus: it's pretty weird that ups said they found papers with no markings
12:17 PM unterhaus: which isn't exactly what they said
12:17 PM unterhaus: this story is just as believable as the $2.3 million that "hackers" stole from the republicans in Wisconsin
12:18 PM unterhaus: I really want to know the mechanism whereby hackers steal that much money unless it's in bitcoin
12:19 PM roycroft: they probably sent a paypal invoice that someone paid without checking
12:19 PM roycroft: maybe it was a $2.3 million consulting fee for "research on her emails"
12:24 PM roycroft: the real problem with these right wing conspiracy theories is that the people who make them up think that people who are not them are as stupid as they are
12:24 PM roycroft: i might appreciate a good conspiracy theory if it were actually plausible and interesting
12:27 PM unterhaus: There is some kind of fraud going on in the Wisconsin case, but I'm pretty sure it's not hackers
12:28 PM roycroft: i believe something happened there, yes
12:28 PM skunkworks: I am still trying to prove the earth is flat...
12:29 PM roycroft: and i hate to say it
12:29 PM roycroft: but my impression, based on the way republicans spend their campaign money, is that they're not trying to win elections
12:29 PM roycroft: they're trying to enrich themselves and their friends
12:29 PM roycroft: they hire wives/cousins/close friends to run their campaigns
12:30 PM roycroft: and give them huge salaries
12:30 PM roycroft: i got a robocall from the republican candidate for oregon's 2nd district
12:30 PM roycroft: which is on the other side of the state
12:30 PM roycroft: there's no reason for them to ever call me, because i don't live in or vote in that district
12:31 PM roycroft: but i'm sure the company who made the robocall got paid well to make that call
12:31 PM roycroft: if $2.3 million went missing in wisconsin i'd look at the campaign itself as the source of the theft
12:31 PM roycroft: i would not only look there
12:31 PM roycroft: but i would look there first
12:32 PM unterhaus: it was the party
12:32 PM unterhaus: Trump's twitter got hacked by someone that didn't use it
12:32 PM roycroft: vice president pence went to ireland on official business a year or two ago
12:32 PM unterhaus: "hacked" as in he guessed that maga2020 was the password
12:33 PM roycroft: he did not stay at the hotel where us diplomats normally stat when visiting that city
12:33 PM roycroft: instead, he flew across the country every night, at taxpayer expense, to stay at a trump property
12:33 PM roycroft: again, at taxpayer expense
12:33 PM roycroft: for "security" reasons
12:33 PM roycroft: even though the normal venue had been used for decades, and was able to be secured
12:33 PM roycroft: that's how this administration does things
12:33 PM roycroft: and how the party in general do things
12:36 PM roycroft: and i just read an article about the alleged "hacker" theft
12:36 PM roycroft: i don't even know why they used the term "hackers"
12:37 PM roycroft: because as reported, it's exactly what i was just discussing - someone submitted a bunch of bogus invoices that were paid without question
12:37 PM roycroft: "These criminals exhibited a level of familiarity with state party operations at the end of the campaign to commit this crime."
12:38 PM roycroft: -- state party chair Andrew Hitt
12:38 PM roycroft: looks like an inside job to me :)
01:17 PM gregcnc: Jymmmm get a spec sheet and check, probably that's a big battery
01:18 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: Oh which, the jumppacks?
01:18 PM gregcnc: 200Ah battery
01:19 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: Thsoe are 200A, 200AH, 1C discharge rating
01:20 PM gregcnc: the jump packs? i thought you posted a project farm review of several a while back
01:20 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: You asked about the 200AH LiFePO4, not the jumppack cell ratings
01:21 PM gregcnc: more than likely a 1C rated battery can do 5-10C for a few seconds, but check the specs
01:21 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: The difference is also the chemistry, so not sure how much of a factor that is.
01:22 PM gregcnc: that's what the spec sheet is for chemistry is not a factor
01:23 PM jymmmm: I know LiPo can dump obscene amounts of current, not sure if LiFe is the same way
01:24 PM jymmmm: My 8AH LiPo cells can dump 400A, and 200A contonously.
01:24 PM gregcnc: all dependent on battery construction. Years ago LiFe could handle more than LiPo
01:25 PM jymmmm: bat chem seems to change constantly
01:25 PM gregcnc: again spec sheets
01:26 PM gregcnc: if you're buying stuff blind with a specific purpose in mind then i don't know what to tell you
01:50 PM roycroft: i just got what i expected to be new tabs for my primary vehicle license plates
01:51 PM roycroft: instead i got a temporary permit, because there is a shortage of tabs
01:51 PM roycroft: what's up with that?
01:51 PM roycroft: the permit is valid through february
02:10 PM roycroft: is it useful to have an off position on the mpg axis or granularity switch, or is that just as easily done on the the display itself?
02:10 PM roycroft: i'll be using a touch screen
02:11 PM roycroft: and this is with the mpg in a pendant, not attached to the control panel
02:14 PM roycroft: or does linuxcnc normallydisable the mpg when a program is running, rendering the question moot?
02:18 PM Rab: Seems like the workflow would be, 1. adjust MPG, 2. either hang MPG somewhere or hold it perfectly still while 3. messing with display. Ample opportunity for the MPG to get bumped between steps 2 and 3. I would want a lockout in direct proximity to the control.
02:19 PM roycroft: so you'd add an "off" position
02:19 PM roycroft: i'm thinking that would be best done on the granularity switch
02:20 PM roycroft: my goal here is to not end up rebuilding the user interface as soon as the machine is working
02:20 PM roycroft: to avoid as many "oh, i should have done that" things as possible
02:21 PM roycroft: so i'm asking a bunch of what may seem to be dumb questions in hopes that folks with experience will offer words of wisdom
02:21 PM gregcnc: do all gui always allow jogging in Linuxcnc? i've only used axis
02:22 PM roycroft: touchy does, i know
02:22 PM roycroft: but i should think that any of them can be configured to do ust about anything one wishes
02:25 PM gregcnc: I think most machine controls require jog mode to jog
02:26 PM roycroft: so when i'm running a program the mpg would be disabled, which is what i figured
02:27 PM roycroft: i guess that, rephrasing the question, when in jog mode does one perform other operations than jogging, and is it beneficial to disable the mpg when doing those other operations?
02:29 PM Rab: roycroft, will the mode be controlled from your pendant?
02:30 PM roycroft: no
02:30 PM roycroft: mode select will either on the touch screen or with a rotary switch on the console
02:31 PM roycroft: even though 25 wires ar a lot of wires to go to a pendant, it's not very many wires if i want to essentially make the penant a remote console
02:31 PM roycroft: and i'm not going beyond 25 wires
03:22 PM * JT-Shop has a pickled egg and a beer to celebrate
03:22 PM roycroft: i hope you did not get that egg at moe's tavern
03:23 PM JT-Shop: no moe's tavern around here, gotta make your own
03:23 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/recipes/snacks/pickled-eggs.html
03:24 PM * roycroft lives next to springfield
03:24 PM JT-Shop: not making the connection
03:25 PM roycroft: home of the simpsons
03:26 PM JT-Shop: ah, I've not watched that in a long time
03:26 PM roycroft: although it's claimed that our springfield is really shelbeyville, and that eugene is really springfield
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: cartoons don't have to adhere to reality
03:28 PM roycroft: i think groening flipped eugene and springfield intentionally
03:28 PM * JT-Shop has to go back to the tool factory tomorrow and make a few tweaks to the PLC then it's payday
03:30 PM * jymmmm throws an Acme Anvil at CaptHindsight
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: oooooohhh I'm dyin again!
03:31 PM roycroft: is unshielded cable likely ok for my pendant?
03:31 PM * jymmmm sticks air hose into CaptHindsight mouth and brings him back to life.
03:32 PM roycroft: the cable will terminate near the stepper motor cables on the back of the controller, but it won't route anywhere near stepper motor or spindle power cables
03:32 PM roycroft: other than that termination point
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: you can try it and see in your application
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: if it doesn't work out, swap to shielded cable
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: is this a LPT connected MPG?
03:36 PM roycroft: no, i'll be connecting it to a 7i73
03:38 PM roycroft: and i anticipate that a shielded cable would be a bit bulkier and stiffer, otherwise i'd just get a shielded cable and not worry about it
03:46 PM skunkworks: IIRC you can power the 7i73 from the source.. But the question for peter - could you just use 1 pair to power instead of 2 pair and use one of the pairs for a physical estop...
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: which cable are you referring to? 7i73 to host or 7i73 to MPG?
03:46 PM roycroft: 7i73 to mpg
03:46 PM skunkworks: Physical = hardwired...
03:47 PM roycroft: this is the cable from my pendant to my controller cabinet, where the 7i73 will live
03:47 PM skunkworks: oh. would it not be easier to put the 7i73 in the pendant?
03:48 PM roycroft: it likely would not fit, for starters
03:48 PM roycroft: but it's going to control some of the console functions as well
03:48 PM skunkworks: ah
03:48 PM roycroft: so in the same enclosure as the other controller hardware makes sense to me
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: I've never used the 7i73, from the data sheet is shows it's all 3.3V logic and analog so definitely shielded cable
03:49 PM roycroft: i may not be thinking about this correctly, but my thinking is that the 7i76 will interface with everything on the machine
03:49 PM roycroft: limit switches, motion control motors, spindle
03:49 PM roycroft: and the 7i73 is where all the user interface stuff will connect
03:57 PM * JT-Shop sweeps a bit of floor in the machine shop I've not seen in months
04:08 PM jymmmm: JT Any dinosaur bone fossils?
04:09 PM JT-Shop: I know where some are...
04:09 PM jymmmm: Cool, send pics of any cool looking ones =)
04:16 PM Deejay: gn8
04:17 PM JT-Shop: chicken bones...
04:23 PM jymmmm: Nah, that's okey, I've seen quite a few of those already
04:40 PM unterhaus: I'm somewhat reluctant to reverse engineer my own wiring on my mill
04:42 PM roycroft: if it's your own wiring you should not need to reverse engineer it
04:42 PM roycroft: you just need to pull out the schematic you made when you did the wiring :)
04:43 PM jymmmm: unterhaus: just rip out all the wiring, and start from scratch, no reversing needed.
04:44 PM unterhaus: I thought about ripping it out but it's a lot of wiring
04:44 PM infornography: roycroft just hit a nerve, The feelings of regret after not taking notes years later
04:45 PM unterhaus: repeated 3 times though, so not so very bad
04:45 PM unterhaus: I suspect I have notes somewhere
04:45 PM unterhaus: not doing me much good right now
04:46 PM _unreal_: milling an adapter for my x motor for the new cnc machine
04:46 PM _unreal_: once I get that installed I'll switch back to trying to get the remaining motor controllers working
04:50 PM * roycroft shakes his head
04:50 PM roycroft: email from boss: i need you to restore my wife's inbox and sent messages folders from august through october 2003 - she needs this for a lawsuit against her brother"
04:51 PM roycroft: me: "we keep backups of email for 2 months - if she needs emails older than that she needs to archive them on her computer like any other customer"
04:52 PM roycroft: boss: that is unacceptable. she needs these emails for the lawsuit and i need you to find them and restore them.
04:52 PM roycroft: i guess i can look for them
04:52 PM roycroft: maybe they're with hillary's emails?
04:52 PM roycroft: or hunter biden's emails?
04:52 PM roycroft: how can emails from 2003 be pertinent anyway?
04:53 PM _unreal_: heh
04:53 PM roycroft: that's way way way beyond the statute of limitations for anything except tax or murder cases
04:53 PM _unreal_: depends on the law suite
04:54 PM _unreal_: he said she said etc...... proof of..
04:55 PM roycroft: i don't see how any non-cryptographically signed emails can be admissible anyway
04:55 PM roycroft: i can trivially forge any email to say anything anyone wants, have it appear to come from anyone anywhere at any time via any carrier
04:55 PM roycroft: it would only take me a few minutes
04:56 PM Tom_L: so you're the one!!!
04:56 PM _unreal_: your under arrest ;)
04:56 PM roycroft: one out of hundreds of thousands or millions
04:57 PM Tom_L: somebocy is sifting thru it you can be sure
04:57 PM roycroft: forging email headers not only does not require rocket sciehce, it requires no science at all
04:58 PM _unreal_: now if there were attachment files thats an other thing
04:59 PM roycroft: attachents would be no problem either
04:59 PM roycroft: just a couple extra steps
04:59 PM roycroft: for this very reason we offer an email archive service
05:00 PM roycroft: our customers' emails are archived with a third-party who make them indelible, and will certify thus in court
05:00 PM _unreal_: ya but I mean the contents lets say photos
05:00 PM _unreal_: PDF's etc...
05:00 PM roycroft: we have quite a few customers who subscribe to that service
05:01 PM _unreal_: god I love how much better my home machine does aluminum
05:03 PM t4nk_freenode: I love how Debby does Dallas
05:03 PM jymmmm: But Debbie is like 70yo now
05:03 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
05:03 PM t4nk_freenode: wouldn't wanna be around that ;)
05:04 PM jymmmm: The first time I saw that, I laughed y ass off.
05:04 PM jymmmm: it was JUST SO CHEESY
05:04 PM roycroft: i'm thinking that i might just put a db-25 connector on the bottom of my pendant and on the controller, and use a shielded parallel printer cable for the pendant
05:04 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, what have you made new?
05:05 PM roycroft: it would not be as flexible as i'd prefer, but it would be easy to install and service
05:05 PM rs[m]: there may be some effort involved to create attachments that look like they were generated 2003
05:05 PM t4nk_freenode: got a couple of things at the same time, _unreal_, as we speak I'm printing this electrical switch I found
05:06 PM rs[m]: install obsolete OS, obsolete word processor, run it with fake date etc...
05:06 PM roycroft: possibly
05:06 PM t4nk_freenode: well, the design is lovely, it has a delicious snap to it
05:06 PM roycroft: and one would have to be certain to not use any fonts that were created after that date
05:06 PM rs[m]: word or whatever from back then
05:06 PM roycroft: i bet i could get an old ibm at off ebay with wordstar on it
05:06 PM roycroft: if i really needed to fake a document like that
05:07 PM t4nk_freenode: but I can't wire it up as I'd like to, just doesn't work, a real shame. But I'm redisigning it to see if I can get it to work
05:07 PM rs[m]: wordstar probably is easier than word
05:07 PM roycroft: i liked the original ms word
05:07 PM t4nk_freenode: oh myy... redesigning ;)
05:07 PM jymmmm: EDLIN
05:07 PM roycroft: it was a modal editor, and curses-based
05:07 PM roycroft: well
05:07 PM roycroft: not curses
05:07 PM roycroft: but whatever the dos equivalent of curses was
05:07 PM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, must have been a weird feeling making your first print after building the micro/nano cnc drawing jig you had
05:08 PM roycroft: escape would toggle from insert mode to command mode
05:08 PM roycroft: not unlike vi
05:08 PM rs[m]: writing into character buffer of whatever graphics adapter you had
05:08 PM roycroft: but then along came windows
05:08 PM roycroft: and the downfall of anything decent from microsoft
05:08 PM rs[m]: i was a wordstar guy, since cp/m guys
05:08 PM rs[m]: s/guys/days/
05:09 PM roycroft: you were pippy in those days
05:11 PM _unreal_: the thing I dont get is my new brushless spindle runs around 14800 RPM for about 30min, then creeps upto 15200 solid unless its got a heavy load
05:11 PM _unreal_: on a cold start
05:11 PM _unreal_: I dont know if thats related to bearings? or maybe the temp of the motor or the temp of the controller?
05:12 PM rs[m]: phase of the moon
05:13 PM _unreal_: !! could be... we have been getting WILD king tides that only happen ever 20 years or so here in south florida
05:13 PM _unreal_: must be global moon worming
05:14 PM _unreal_: finally the job is almost done
05:17 PM _unreal_: an other perfect aluminum part
05:21 PM Tom_L: the grease warms up and oozes out so it spins freely
05:21 PM roycroft: maybe the machine is just tired of working and speeds up so it can finish faster
05:25 PM rs[m]: measurement error
05:26 PM t4nk_freenode: well yeah, _unreal_, .. even if it's just a glue gun according to some..
05:27 PM t4nk_freenode: it can be really great
05:27 PM t4nk_freenode: all depends on how creative you get
05:38 PM roycroft: so maybe, now that i look into it more, i should just dedicate the 7i73 to the pendant, stick it in the pendant - then i just need an rs422 cable to the 7i76
05:38 PM roycroft: and if i think i need it, i could get another 7i73 for the console
05:39 PM roycroft: or something like that
05:39 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, other than a few minor programming changes the spoke machine is good to go
05:40 PM roycroft: i still need a cable for the e-stop, but i could build that in with the rs-422 cable
05:41 PM gregcnc: unreal what kind of spindle?
05:44 PM unterhaus: anyone have some software that is good for system schematics?
05:50 PM JT-Shop: I used to have an autocad plug in but it won't run on any pc I currently have
05:51 PM * JT-Shop listens to Classical Gas
05:52 PM roycroft: i use my old version of autocad
05:52 PM roycroft: i've built up a small library of components
05:52 PM roycroft: and i do a lot of manual work making schematics
05:53 PM JT-Shop: I think Mason Williams had a full orchestra for that version
05:54 PM roycroft: john fogerty sent the trump campaign a cease and desist letter for using his music without permission
05:54 PM roycroft: they ignored it, of course
05:54 PM roycroft: so fogerty just did a special tiktok version of "fortunate son" just for the president
05:54 PM roycroft: that's one of the songs the campaign has been playing at rallies, of course
05:54 PM XXCoder: above the law, that people
05:55 PM roycroft: because they don't understand the lyrics
05:55 PM gregcnc: they all are
05:55 PM roycroft: xxcoder: fortunate son was written in 1969 by fogerty - it's about how rich people can legally draft dodge
05:55 PM XXCoder: geez
05:55 PM roycroft: so captain bone spurs plays it at his rallies
05:56 PM XXCoder: indeed lol
05:57 PM unterhaus: copyright should mean something, seems like damages would make sense at this point
05:58 PM XXCoder: yeah. thats if you treat law seriously
05:58 PM roycroft: just wait until trump loses the election
05:58 PM XXCoder: trump party doesnt
05:58 PM roycroft: his campaign will wait for all the lawsuits to be over
05:58 PM roycroft: and then will declare bankruptcy and pay nobody
05:59 PM roycroft: his campaign still owes millions to cities all across the country for security during the 2016 election
06:00 PM roycroft: the mayor of san antonio told him not to come back until he pays his bill from last time
06:00 PM roycroft: so because the question of schematic software was asked, i very briefly looked at what's available
06:01 PM roycroft: and it's mostly either high-end add-ons to packages like autocad, or rentware
06:01 PM t4nk_freenode: I think I bloody well did it! friggin switch is making a reliable contact
06:01 PM t4nk_freenode: cigars for all!
06:01 PM roycroft: it would be nice if there were a $300 stand-alone application that does not have to call home all the time and does not need a monthly or annual rent payment to keep working
06:01 PM roycroft: but that's not how software works anymore, it seems
06:03 PM roycroft: there's a package called tinycad that is open source
06:03 PM roycroft: i have no idea if it works or not
06:05 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: so how do you get millions of people into therapy that don't recognize that they even have any issues?
06:05 PM roycroft: it's windows-based, and requires visual studio
06:06 PM roycroft: there is a binary distribution on sourceforge
06:06 PM roycroft: so it might be worth checking out
06:07 PM roycroft: at a glance it appears to be circuit-oriented, and i have no idea how much process control support it has
06:07 PM roycroft: but it appears to be an active project
06:07 PM roycroft: https://www.tinycad.net
06:14 PM rs[m]: roycroft: what about kicad
06:14 PM rs[m]: roycroft: or qelectrotech
06:21 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, cool
06:35 PM _unreal_: There x is now properly mounted
06:36 PM _unreal_: x motor
06:53 PM roycroft: so while i'm waiting for ups to show up i'm cloning a vm to install tinycad
06:53 PM roycroft: if it works decently that would be great
06:53 PM ve7it: +1 for kicad.... huge libraries of parts in both schematic and 3D form.. and easy to add your own.. as a plus it also does PCB layouts
06:53 PM roycroft: if it can export to dwg or even dfx that would be even better
06:54 PM roycroft: does kicad do process control schematics decently?
06:54 PM roycroft: it's not married to windows, so if it can do process control schematics it's inherently better than tinycad could ever be
06:55 PM ve7it: I dont see why it woulnt.. http://ve7it.cowlug.org/dc_panel.pdf
06:56 PM roycroft: yeah, that's perfect
06:56 PM roycroft: it's a matter of not having the symbol libraries and making it difficult to define new symbols that would be the problem
06:56 PM ve7it: http://ve7it.cowlug.org/dc_panel.html and more project docs
06:57 PM roycroft: but that pdf shows that it can do what is needed
06:57 PM roycroft: and it has multi platform support
06:57 PM roycroft: so i think i'll kill this vm clone
06:57 PM roycroft: and install on mac os
06:57 PM rs[m]: qelectrotech may be better suited for that
06:57 PM rs[m]: https://qelectrotech.org/gallery/
06:57 PM roycroft: thanks
06:58 PM roycroft: i'll look at that too
06:58 PM roycroft: this much i know:
06:58 PM roycroft: autocad without autocad electrical is a royal pain in the butt for doing schematics
06:59 PM roycroft: but it's what i have and what i'm used to
06:59 PM roycroft: i'm making so many changes to my cnc controller schematic though that if i can find a better tool i'll save time using it even including the time to learn the new tool
06:59 PM roycroft: i was aware of kicad, but had not used it
07:00 PM roycroft: i've never heard of qelectrotech before
07:00 PM roycroft: i'll give both a go and see what i like
07:01 PM roycroft: and ups are here
07:01 PM roycroft: so i guess i have to go get all the fun stuff they're bringing
07:04 PM unterhaus: roycroft check for Tucker Carleson's paperwork
07:04 PM unterhaus: deep state might have mixed it in with your stuff
07:07 PM roycroft: all they brought was my rack enclosure
07:07 PM roycroft: that's fine - that's what i really needed right now
07:08 PM roycroft: i've confirmed that the back panel is removable, so it's going to be really easy to remodel the enclosure
07:08 PM ve7it: yup... I have been very happy with kicad
07:08 PM roycroft: i'm going to install both
07:10 PM roycroft: what i want is to drop some symbols down in a document
07:10 PM roycroft: tell the software what to connect to what
07:10 PM roycroft: and have it draw the diagram
07:10 PM roycroft: i also want to number each wire, and possibly have the software do the numbering automatically
07:11 PM roycroft: the qelectrotech download page is not working, so i guess i'll give kicad a go first
07:29 PM rs[m]: seems to work fine here.
07:37 PM roycroft: so far i'm not impressed with kicad
07:38 PM roycroft: but i'll give it a bit more time
07:42 PM rs[m]: kicad is for designing PCBs
07:43 PM roycroft: the issues are with the mac port i think
07:43 PM roycroft: it is not retina display aware
07:43 PM roycroft: so everything is really really tiny
07:43 PM roycroft: i can zoom in to see better
07:43 PM roycroft: but every time i place a symbol it zooms out and jerks the screen around
07:44 PM roycroft: it also takes about 30 seconds from when i click on the "place" button until the library pops up
07:44 PM roycroft: and it's rather klunky trying to navigate the library
07:45 PM roycroft: i did not get far enough to try to actually design a circuit - i just placed a few symbols and gave up because it was so slow and difficult to navigate
07:46 PM roycroft: it appears that it may be a capable app, though
07:46 PM roycroft: just not on mac os, at least not as currently distributed
07:48 PM roycroft: i'll give qelectrotech a go after dinner
07:49 PM roycroft: this is a first impression thing for me - i've not studied he documentation for either app at all
07:49 PM roycroft: i'm just launching and playing right now
07:49 PM roycroft: but if the issues i'm having with kicad can't be worked around it's unusable on macos at the moment
07:50 PM roycroft: if it turns out to be the better app i don't running it in a linux or windows vm
07:50 PM roycroft: and i'd like to be able to design circuit boards, but that's not going to be the primary use of the software
07:50 PM roycroft: so if qelectrotech is better at schematics but can't do pcb layouts it may still be fine for me
08:12 PM unterhaus: I'll have to try the kicad parts editor. Does it have mesa daughtercards in a library?
08:16 PM roycroft: that would be nice, but i think it's probably unlikely
08:17 PM unterhaus: I guess I get to make one
08:25 PM rs[m]: qelectrotech is better for things like control cabinets (?), the library has a lot of symbols like contactors, PLCs and stuff like that. no PCB stuff.
08:26 PM veegee: So the requirement for cold fast charging narrows my options down to two chemistries: wet cell NiCd and LTO
08:27 PM veegee: 100 years later, NiCd still a damn awesome chemistry
08:27 PM veegee: high power density, great energy density, excellent cycle life, long shelf life, cold charge, fast charge at 1C
08:27 PM roycroft: the download link seems to be working now
08:31 PM unterhaus: with qelectrotech, do you make a part first and then add it to the schematic?
08:32 PM roycroft: qelectrotech loads instantly and seems to be retina display aware
08:33 PM unterhaus: okay, silent youtubes with no text explaining what's going on. not great
08:33 PM roycroft: so it's already behaving better on a mac than kicad
08:45 PM unterhaus: okay, the part 1 tutorial I found promises part 2, but that doesn't exist
08:45 PM unterhaus: nice linuxcnc video though
08:45 PM unterhaus: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVBQgqxVqZEGsJ2XRV5pkTA/videos
08:46 PM unterhaus: if I ever do a tutorial, I'm doing part 2 first and promising a part 1 that will never exist
08:48 PM roycroft: unfortuantely, qelectotech is a french project, and i'm not conversent enough with french to be able to work with materials written in french
08:49 PM Tom_L: yay, motor finally shipped
08:49 PM roycroft: at least not in any kind of realistic timeframe
08:49 PM roycroft: the wiki is totally in french
08:51 PM unterhaus: the manual is in english
08:51 PM unterhaus: online manual
08:52 PM unterhaus: looks nice, more painful than necessary startup though
08:52 PM roycroft: yes, i found the english manual
08:56 PM unterhaus: the silent tutorial videos aren't too bad but it took me 2 minutes to figure out the first thing they did was go to fullscreen mode
08:59 PM roycroft: silence is golden
08:59 PM roycroft: but my eyes still see
09:01 PM unterhaus: can't edit a text box by clicking on it, that's a nice ui feature
09:01 PM JavaBean: silences is golden, ducktape is silver
09:03 PM roycroft: duct tape comes in every color in the rainbow
09:06 PM unterhaus: you gotta watch the silent tutorials I guess
09:08 PM unterhaus: now I have to figure out how to fit 50 pins on a box
09:09 PM unterhaus: I guess it's going to be a tall skinny box with pins on each side
09:09 PM JavaBean: there are 50stars on a US flag... maybe that could be a good pin layout idea?
09:09 PM unterhaus: 52 soon
09:10 PM JavaBean: *currently
09:10 PM unterhaus: might merge montana and wyoming
09:10 PM unterhaus: also the dakotas
09:10 PM unterhaus: if 50 stars are important
09:12 PM unterhaus: okay, resizing unasked is a bit much
09:12 PM roycroft: 50 stars have only been a thing since 1960
09:13 PM unterhaus: that select thing is actually a group
09:14 PM unterhaus: disadvantage of silent tutorials
09:22 PM unterhaus: adding a terminal is a bit too mysterious
09:26 PM unterhaus: in the silent tutorial they draw a line first and then add a terminal to that
09:26 PM unterhaus: no mention if that's required in the manual
09:54 PM unterhaus: not too bad for a cross platform software and learning a new cad is never fun
10:28 PM CaptHindsight: random robot cyborg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508035796180271155/771425126696091678/1603990028703.png
10:35 PM unterhaus: seems like you can't copy from one element to another. bummer
10:35 PM unterhaus: okay, you can, it's just really screwd up
10:52 PM XXCoder: finally cruelity free chicken fight'
10:55 PM roycroft: a police officer in the philippines was just killed by a chicken trying to stop a chicken fight
11:02 PM XXCoder: yeah chicken with razor blades added isnt very safe
11:03 PM XXCoder: fuck animal fight people
11:04 PM unterhaus: well, I just managed to crash it
11:21 PM unterhaus: okay, the 7i37 symbol seems particularly tedius
11:21 PM unterhaus: ous
11:24 PM XXCoder: machine ok?
11:25 PM unterhaus: I'm just doing a schematic
11:25 PM unterhaus: no machines involved
11:26 PM XXCoder: oh ok :)
11:34 PM unterhaus: not sure what I'm going to connect all this i/o up to
11:53 PM unterhaus: 7i33 says each channel has an enable out and an enable in, but there is only one ena_ per channel
11:56 PM unterhaus: i'm going to assume the output doesn't exist and see if it breaks anything
11:58 PM unterhaus: okay, thinking it's an output