#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 26 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:40 AM jesseg: That's what happened when they invented the steam engine, it started a lot of revolutions
12:46 AM jesseg: sorry, that was bad :P GN folks
12:59 AM Deejay: moin
02:18 AM Loetmichel: mornin#
04:50 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:42 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:42 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:08 AM Tom_L: morning
06:09 AM Tom_L: 27F Hi 29 and snow
06:09 AM JT-Cave: yikes keep that crap over there
06:09 AM Tom_L: just a guess of ~3" so far
06:10 AM JT-Cave: we have rain till Thursday
06:16 AM TekniQue_ is now known as TekniQue
07:38 AM Loetmichel: *MUHAHA* Coworker is just EMI measuring military systems for the german forces... PCs have phat GPUs and Logitech G910 Orion Spectrum keyboards. Tell me that the soldiers are not gamer kids in their hearts ;)
07:56 AM JT-Cave: dang that's a $180 keyboard
07:58 AM Loetmichel: JT-Cave: and rainbow... and abysmal build quality... half of them arrive here with at least one keycap broken off..
08:00 AM JT-Cave: that's pretty bad for an expensive keyboard
08:00 AM Loetmichel: indeed
08:00 AM Loetmichel: also if they are used by soldiers... i'll give tham a week at best...
08:41 AM veegee: jesseg only issue with 2 stroke is that they consume oil. The 4 strokes are more efficient for sure and the torque curve is much flatter. So I can design it to run at wide open throttle at a lower RPM instead of having to rely on the tuned pipe's RPM range
08:41 AM Loetmichel: veegee: some 4stroke use more oil than some 3stroke though
08:41 AM Loetmichel: 2 stroke
08:41 AM gregcnc: you want the honda GX-25
08:42 AM veegee: gregcnc yeah that's the one I was joking about when I said XXCoder should replace his CNC machine's servos with GX25s
08:42 AM gregcnc: yeah is saw. if you want somethign that works, that's it
08:43 AM veegee: 300W power at full throttle, 3,000 RPM, not bad at all
08:43 AM veegee: now to find a clone so I don't have to pay overpriced honda prices
08:44 AM gregcnc: what do GX25 cost now. I bought one several years ago for 200USD
08:44 AM veegee: Yeah that's a lot
08:44 AM gregcnc: LOL
08:44 AM veegee: Look what you can get for $200 USD: https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gasoline-engines.html
08:45 AM veegee: I know the cost curve is U-shaped as far as $/cc go
08:45 AM gregcnc: if you like scrap
08:45 AM veegee: those are known to be excellent
08:45 AM veegee: they're just honda clones. Most parts are interchangeable
08:45 AM veegee: Honda GX engines are just insanely overpriced
08:46 AM Loetmichel: hehe, i have a few 2.5cc glo engines that do 1,5 hp...
08:46 AM Loetmichel: but the fuel is a bit "pricey" to say the least
08:46 AM gregcnc: the small GX are also cloned
08:46 AM veegee: glow engines consume even more oil
08:46 AM Loetmichel: and the rpms are insane ;)
08:47 AM veegee: I think the mixture is like 20% oil
08:47 AM gregcnc: yeha
08:47 AM * Loetmichel once made an 100W .99cc glo engine genset for a quadcopter... fun stuff
08:47 AM veegee: yup that's the way to go. Variable pitch is the best
08:47 AM Loetmichel: rpm at full load and open throttle: 28k ;)
08:47 AM gregcnc: yeah i've done 7.5CC four stroke gens
08:47 AM gregcnc: variable ptich lol
08:48 AM Loetmichel: "screaming mimi"
08:48 AM Loetmichel: .)
08:48 AM gregcnc: that never cought in in quads
08:48 AM gregcnc: caught on
08:48 AM veegee: you can't touch variable pitch's power response
08:48 AM veegee: you can do insane aerobatics
08:48 AM gregcnc: uhhhhh
08:48 AM Loetmichel: yes, but the idea in quads is that they are very simple to build and cheap to REbuild if "short landed"
08:49 AM veegee: not having to modify RPM is the #1 way to get close to instant power response
08:49 AM Loetmichel: the genset i made was a bet that i couldnt get a quad to hover over an hour at same TOW as with a battery pack
08:49 AM Loetmichel: made it. barely ;)
08:49 AM gregcnc: look at eh WEN generators for you forklift
08:50 AM Loetmichel: the genset plus fuel tank plus small battery for buffering was the same weight as the big 5Ah battery
08:51 AM gregcnc: you should have kept working on that project. would be a real business now
08:51 AM Loetmichel: and had enoughfuel for 60min at full tilt
08:51 AM Loetmichel: nah, WAY to LOUD ;)
08:52 AM Loetmichel: no weight left for a muffler ;)
08:52 AM Loetmichel: as i said: "screaming mimi"
08:52 AM gregcnc: it's called development
08:52 AM Loetmichel: :)
08:52 AM gregcnc: Even OS is building them now
08:52 AM veegee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVPvyhB00kA
08:52 AM Loetmichel: also those small <1cc engines have abysmal runtimes before you have to replace the running parts
08:53 AM veegee: Look at what you can do with a variable pitch quad
08:53 AM gregcnc: yeah it never caught on
08:53 AM veegee: who cares
08:53 AM gregcnc: only on ever made
08:53 AM veegee: no there are lots
08:53 AM gregcnc: nobody wanted them
08:54 AM Loetmichel: veegee: its fun for aerobatics but beside the point for a multicopter
08:55 AM veegee: Yeah I know
08:55 AM Loetmichel: they are meant to be simply built for tinkerers with no experience in model piloting and not a "clockmaker" project.
08:55 AM veegee: But still, can have a single engine in the center and just servos at each prop
08:56 AM gregcnc: you know there was a glow version of that
08:56 AM gregcnc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnP3jTwRPv0
08:59 AM veegee: Yeah that's cool
08:59 AM veegee: who cares about direct driven electric motor multirotors
08:59 AM veegee: those are too easy
08:59 AM gregcnc: everyone else
08:59 AM veegee: any little 13 year old dipshit can put one together
09:00 AM veegee: that's what I'm saying, all the little 13 year old boys love it
09:00 AM gregcnc: they also love listening to WAP
09:01 AM veegee: yes that is also true I imagine
09:01 AM veegee: Ok I confess
09:02 AM veegee: I have a DJI mavic 2 pro
09:02 AM veegee: but that's _just_ for aerial photography and casual flying
09:21 AM Loetmichel: OUCH!... just had cut a bit of 8mm thick alu sheet on the circular saw... no, all fingers still attached but two now have no fingerprints... molten skin... MAN does that alu get HOT when cut with a wood saw blade... :(
09:24 AM veegee: well it _does_ have the fourth highest thermal conductivity of all elements
09:25 AM Loetmichel: i noticed ;)
09:32 AM rs[m]: veegee: doubt it. what about carbon.
09:32 AM veegee: well yeah there's diamond
09:33 AM veegee: but other than that, it's aluminum, gold, copper, then silver at the top
09:33 AM rs[m]: veegee: graphen is an order of magnitude better conductor that silver
09:33 AM veegee: ok ignoring that, I'm talking about pure elements in naturally occurring conditions
09:34 AM rs[m]: it always depends on phase of element. who knows what metallic hydrogen does.
09:34 AM rs[m]: diamond is a naturally occuring condition, and graphen probably also, depending on what "naturally" means exactly ;)
09:35 AM rs[m]: metallic hydrogen probably exists naturally in saturn
10:16 AM veegee: Ha princess auto has a GX35 clone: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/32cc-hobby-engine/A-p8904096e
10:16 AM veegee: I hope it has a cast iron cylinder sleeve
10:33 AM gregcnc: https://youtu.be/qqsdSJXuwp4?t=1008
11:11 AM roycroft: wow
11:12 AM roycroft: i just got a phone call that was very puzzling
11:12 AM roycroft: it claimed to be from a local sports medicine clinic
11:12 AM roycroft: the person asked for me by name
11:12 AM roycroft: and said they needed to discuss my rehabilitation plan for my recent knee surgery that was performed by one of their doctors
11:13 AM roycroft: the person then asked me to confirm my identity by providing my social security number and date of birth
11:13 AM roycroft: that's an awfully specific type of scam to be pulling
11:14 AM roycroft: i mean, how many people are likely to have recently had knee surgery performed by a specific doctor at that clinic?
11:14 AM roycroft: most of those scam calls are more generic
11:14 AM gregcnc: clearly you forgot you had knee surgery
11:14 AM roycroft: i try to avoid meds that are that good, gregcnc
11:15 AM roycroft: i'm not a fan of pain
11:15 AM roycroft: but i'm also not a fan of narcotic addiction
11:15 AM roycroft: on the few occasions where i've sustained injuries that warrant pain meds, i've always had a bit of a struggle with mydoctor about that
11:15 AM roycroft: i want the mildest pain killers that will allow me to tolerate the pain
11:16 AM roycroft: doctors want to prescribe the good tuff
11:16 AM roycroft: stuff
11:16 AM roycroft: anyway
11:16 AM gregcnc: you were at the part where you were giving them your SSN
11:17 AM roycroft: i suspected that call was a scam right away, but when they started talking specifics about the knee surgery i thought maybe they just had the wrong patient
11:17 AM roycroft: then they asked for the dob and ssn, and i was certain it was a scam
11:17 AM roycroft: i've never been to that clinic
11:18 AM roycroft: i've never had a knee injury
11:18 AM roycroft: although ironically my left knee is hurting a bit today because of a hike i went on yesterday
11:18 AM roycroft: and i should restate
11:18 AM gregcnc: oh so they just called too early
11:19 AM roycroft: i've never had a knee injury for which i needed to seek medical attention
11:19 AM roycroft: yes, they may be clairvoyant
11:20 AM roycroft: or simply time travelers who came back from the future
11:20 AM gregcnc: so what did you tell the FBI?
11:20 AM roycroft: the fbi won't care about this
11:20 AM gregcnc: someone here does though
11:20 AM gregcnc: I'll get right on it
11:21 AM roycroft: unless i actually gave a scammer ~$50k or more no law enforcement would do anything except politely take a report, and then bin it the instant the call is over
11:22 AM roycroft: i get scam calls all the time
11:22 AM roycroft: the only reason this one was noteworthy is because it was so specific
02:06 PM Eric__: with number spoofing being so common, it's amazing they ever catch any scammers
02:06 PM Eric__: I guess it's when people fall for the scam
02:10 PM roycroft: yes, that's really the only way
02:10 PM roycroft: if they can trace the money
02:10 PM roycroft: unfortunately it usually gets traced to either a wal*mart parking lot or offshore
02:13 PM roycroft: so i'm trying to understand what i bought for this cnc conversion a few years ago
02:14 PM roycroft: i bought 3 nema 23 stepper motors, 425 oz*in each
02:14 PM roycroft: the z axis requires a lot more torque to move than x or y
02:14 PM roycroft: and i see most folks put a 600+oz*in nema 34 on the z on my class of machine
02:15 PM roycroft: i'm thinking i was going to mount the z motor with a 3:1 belt driven reduction gear setup
02:15 PM roycroft: does that make sense?
02:15 PM gloops: any idea of the weight the z motor is moving?
02:15 PM roycroft: i'd get the effective torque i need, and since z doesn't move that much it probably does not matter that it's a lot slower
02:16 PM roycroft: i don't really know
02:16 PM roycroft: i know this:
02:16 PM roycroft: in manual mode there's already a 2;1 reduction on the z
02:16 PM roycroft: and the z is a *lot* harder to move up than x or y
02:16 PM roycroft: i'd say the mill head probably weighs in the 40-50kg range
02:17 PM gloops: ah right, thats a lot heavier than my router, maybe 12kg, with 270oz motor
02:18 PM roycroft: with the motor removed the head is heavy enough that i wouldn't be able to lift it with one arm
02:19 PM roycroft: and that's with nothing in the spindle
02:19 PM roycroft: not that a drill chuck or a collet weighs all that much
02:19 PM gloops: easy enough to gear down with timing belt, depending on how accurate you want to be
02:19 PM roycroft: the problem is that i figured a bunch of this stuff out years ago
02:19 PM roycroft: then bought much of what i needed
02:20 PM roycroft: then the years passed, and i've forgotten why i made some of the decisions i made back then
02:20 PM roycroft: i think they were probably all valid decisions
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: price, availability
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: and that changes over time
02:20 PM roycroft: i.e. i don't think i bought anything without knowing what i was buying and why
02:21 PM gloops: a real (non chinese) planetary gearbox is quite pricey i think
02:21 PM roycroft: i'd use a belt drive system
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: once you get the thinking cap on for a bit it will likely come back to you
02:22 PM roycroft: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/timing-pulleys-and-rubber-belts-set-kithttps://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/timing-pulleys-and-rubber-belts-set-kit
02:22 PM roycroft: ack
02:22 PM roycroft: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/timing-pulleys-and-rubber-belts-set-kit
02:22 PM roycroft: something like that
02:23 PM roycroft: it is coming back to me, slowly
02:23 PM roycroft: and i'm documenting things this time :)
02:23 PM roycroft: those ribbed timing belts/pullies are fairly accurate
02:24 PM roycroft: and with a 3:1 reduction it will be even more accurate
02:24 PM gloops: basically the same thing ive got on X axis, no issues, although i did build in means of adjusting tension and line up etc, but im not to a few thou here and there
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: never noticed those on his website
02:25 PM roycroft: i was thinking about getting a bigger motor for the z, but that would be pushing the limits of my gecko drive and my stepper power supply
02:25 PM roycroft: x and y i think i'm going to drive directly
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: a few years ago I noticed that I was collecting almost everything I purchased from Automation Technologies in a box..
02:26 PM roycroft: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/new-z-axes-coupling
02:26 PM roycroft: using couplers similar to that
02:26 PM roycroft: in case i don't line things up perfectly
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: because I was removing it from prototypes since the drives are all noisy, bearings are crunchy or have detents etc. etc.
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: we call those "break away" couplings
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: good for very small loads only
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: non-contact printers with small moving masses etc
02:29 PM roycroft: you think they won't hold up on a small mill?
02:29 PM gloops: you probably know those couples come with different breaking torques
02:30 PM gloops: i find the really cheapo ones to be useless
02:30 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i will be able to make the motor mounts perfect enough to ensure that the motor is exactly lined up with the lead screw shaft
02:30 PM roycroft: i can come really close, but maybe not perfect
02:30 PM roycroft: and yes, i would use premium couplers
02:30 PM gloops: slotted bolt holes
02:31 PM gloops: shims, silver foil haha
02:31 PM roycroft: but if that kind of coupler isn't recommended, i could set up a timing belt drive system with a 1;1 ratio
02:33 PM gloops: most people seem to use them
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.machinedesign.com/archive/article/21828607/couplings-and-shafts
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/mech/M1000000000/M1001000000/M1001090000/ you can use this as a guide and then shop around
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://products.designworldonline.com/products/couplings.html
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.couplingtips.com/featured/proper-coupling-selection-need-know/
02:45 PM roycroft: thanks
02:45 PM roycroft: you're always good with useful links
02:46 PM roycroft: and i always appreciate links to information vs. links to products
02:46 PM roycroft: i like to undestand what i'm doing
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: sure vs just use this
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: I don't expect a hobbyist to have the patience to actually read anything
02:49 PM roycroft: i hope my controller enclosure ships soon
02:49 PM roycroft: my plan is to make a couple large cutouts in the back, and mount plates to the cutouts where i can mount my connectors, etc.
02:50 PM roycroft: so that it will be easy to modify it later if i need to
02:50 PM roycroft: and i need to know what i'm working with for a back panel before i can start designing those inserts
02:51 PM roycroft: even though this is a small machine, capthindsight, it's not really a hobbyist machine
02:51 PM roycroft: i'm doing the cnc conversion so that i can make some jigs for my woodshop, which is going to be my business once i get it all together
02:51 PM Tom_L: yeah roy builds everything to industrial standards...
02:51 PM Tom_L: :)
02:52 PM roycroft: but even if it were just a hobbyist machine i'd do the reading
02:52 PM roycroft: i build to reasonable standards
02:52 PM Tom_L: hey now... i have standards!
02:52 PM roycroft: i try not to get carried away
02:52 PM Eric__: I somehow accumulated a batch of couplings. Now I want to know what it takes to break the slit type
02:52 PM roycroft: but i also try to be forward thinking and not do just enough to get through the day
02:53 PM Eric__: no kill like overkill
02:53 PM Tom_L: slit type are crap if they're what i'm thinking
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: Eric__: moments like reversing directions
02:54 PM roycroft: https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/221302477738/
02:54 PM roycroft: the zero-backlash bellows type is looking interesting to me right now
02:54 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Couplers.jpg
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: they snap when reversed since the coupling expands
02:54 PM Tom_L: the right one is crap
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: I use the bellows types on high precision servos
02:56 PM Eric__: my mill only has timing belts
02:56 PM Tom_L: now to the cold cold shop for a bit
02:56 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, you get any snow up there?
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: the couplings on the left can get you into oscillations since the polymer spider acts like a spring
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: in servo applications
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: rain snow mix for a few minutes early today, mostly rain
02:57 PM Tom_L: got ~3" of slush which promptly froze this AM
02:57 PM Tom_L: kept the body shops in business another few months
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: our first snows are getting earlier each year
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: last year it was oct 31
02:58 PM Tom_L: i haven't seen snow in october in years
02:58 PM Tom_L: has to be global warming
02:58 PM Tom_L: :)
02:58 PM Eric__: a while back we had 1st snow on Oct 1, trees still had leaves. That was fun
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: we used to get a light dusting around Thanksgiving
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: last year we had an early winter (Nov-Dec) then it became pretty mild
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: but it was cold until May
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: I haven't looked at the long term for this winter yet
03:02 PM roycroft: we had a hard freeze last night
03:02 PM roycroft: it got down to -4 at my house
03:02 PM roycroft: i don't think it's ever snowed here in october though
03:02 PM Tom_L: few days ago it was 85 now it's like 27
03:02 PM roycroft: usually when it gets below freezing it does not snow
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: yeah was just wearing short sleeves, now the sweaters are out
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/long_range/seasonal.php?lead=1
03:06 PM roycroft: those bellows couplers are a bit on the expensive side
03:06 PM roycroft: about $50 each for the size i'd need
03:07 PM roycroft: maybe i'll find something else that's suitable
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: yes but you get what you pay for, oh that is low for me :)
03:07 PM roycroft: i'm not saying they're overpriced
03:07 PM roycroft: and actually, if i were to do a timing belt setup it would probably cost me about $50 per axis
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: used sold in sets of 3 https://surplus.motionconstrained.com/product-category/ball-screws-shaft-couplings/
03:08 PM roycroft: the spec sheet for my motors says the shafts are 9.5mm in diameter
03:08 PM roycroft: that's an odd size
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: what frame size?
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: servo or stepper?
03:08 PM roycroft: nema 23
03:08 PM roycroft: stepper
03:08 PM roycroft: i should go measure one
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: better be sure
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: heh 9.5mm = 0.374"
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: 3/8
03:11 PM roycroft: they are 10.0mm
03:11 PM gregcnc: 9.5±0.5 close enough
03:12 PM roycroft: 9.5+-0.15 is what the drawing says
03:12 PM gregcnc: however there are 9.5mm shaft vs 3/8"
03:13 PM roycroft: but although it's not entirely clear, the drawing may be showing the dimension to the flat, not the full diameter
03:13 PM gregcnc: I had some as oem and the pulleys were EXTREMELy tight on 3/8" shafts
03:13 PM roycroft: the part number on the motor matches the part number on the spec sheet i have
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.newport.com/p/RV350CCHL-F these use the bellows type coupling on the motor shafts
03:15 PM gregcnc: I have aerotech slides with bellows
03:15 PM roycroft: yeah, so now those bellows type are $69.83 for 10mm shafts
03:16 PM roycroft: the $53 price i saw before was for 9mm shafts
03:16 PM roycroft: i guess i get to pay more to get less metal
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: sounds about right, but since you have steppers and not closed loop you can likely just use couplings with a polymer spider
03:16 PM roycroft: yes, i don't think i need the bellows ones
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: price will be a bit lower, depends on the distributor
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: usually sold at three separate parts, the shaft on each side and the spider
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: just for example https://www.mcmaster.com/spider-couplings/
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: you'll be nowhere close to their top speed but might get beyond their max torque, so run the numbers
03:20 PM roycroft: those mcmaster ones do not claim to be zero backlash
03:20 PM roycroft: is that going to be an issue, or can i measure backlash and tell linuxcnc what it is and mostly avoid the problem?
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: more comparisons https://www.mcmaster.com/spider-couplings/flexible-shaft-couplings/
03:22 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:22 PM roycroft: it seems that even if i can tell linuxcnc what the measured backlash is, if i'm cutting, say, a circle, i'll get little "nibs" at the nodes where i instantly change direction
03:22 PM roycroft: and it would be best to just not have any backlash
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: the amount of backlash depends on the system and the loads
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: the polymer spider will expand and compress like a spring, same for the motor and screw shafts only the latter will be very very small amounts since they are made of steel
03:24 PM JT-Shop: hmm angry ip sees my onboard nic at 10.10.10.11 but I can't communicate with a mesa card... I wonder how to diagnose that?
03:24 PM roycroft: they're saying the hytrel spiders are best for continuous motion, but allow less alignment error
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: if close to the end range of the design the spider will stretch and compress more than under light loads
03:25 PM roycroft: for what i'm planning on doing, a tiny bit of imprecision is fine
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mcmaster.com/spider-couplings/flexible-shaft-couplings/set-screw-high-parallel-misalignment-flexible-shaft-couplings/
03:25 PM roycroft: i'd like to build it as tight as possible, of course
03:25 PM roycroft: but not go bankrupt in the process
03:26 PM roycroft: an extra $10 or so for a higher quality part is no big deal
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: lower high end of RPM's
03:26 PM roycroft: but mulitply that by 50 parts and it starts adding up to real money
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: the disc slides vs expands and compresses
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: so now we are comparing $70ea to $40ea and $30ea
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: or $10ea for the aluminum slot type you first posted
03:30 PM roycroft: the bellows type look like the best ones to get, if money were no object
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: it's what you find in high end precision screw driven applications
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mcmaster.com/spider-couplings/flexible-shaft-couplings/clamping-precision-flexible-shaft-couplings/ still high precision but lower max speed and lower torque
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: your application is lower speeds <2K rpm, but higher torque and you're not sure of how much misalignment you will have
03:32 PM roycroft: and a heck of a lot more affordable
03:32 PM roycroft: i can keep misalignment to within a few thousandths
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: your motor is 3/8" shaft, how about the screws?
03:33 PM roycroft: holding tenths not so much
03:33 PM roycroft: the screws are what i make them
03:33 PM roycroft: i think i'll be using 12mm screws
03:33 PM roycroft: so probably 10mm shaft ends
03:34 PM roycroft: i don't have the screws yet - that's the one major component i still have to buy
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: the last link ^^ is used for these stages with servo or stepper
03:35 PM roycroft: well at <$10 each, i can always get those
03:35 PM roycroft: and if they don't work out, i can replace them with something more precise
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: the type you first posted tends to snap under high accel or direction changes
03:38 PM roycroft: https://www.mcmaster.com/6408K12-6413K122/
03:38 PM roycroft: that looks like it would do
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: if your system has lower accell and you don't exceed the torque
03:38 PM roycroft: my motors are 26.25 in*lb
03:38 PM roycroft: and that's rated at 43 in*lb
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: they should be fine
03:40 PM Eric__: you need 2 hubs and a spider for that type
03:40 PM roycroft: yes
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: I like the clamp on vs set screw types since they don't scratch the shafts
03:40 PM roycroft: my motor shaft has a flat
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: clamping force is also higher
03:40 PM roycroft: and my screw shaft can too
03:41 PM roycroft: but yes, i generally like clamps vs set screws
03:41 PM roycroft: and if the shaft does not have a flat, i insist on clamp vs. set screw
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: if you don't have to remove them, on protos they tend to wear from being removed and replaced
03:43 PM roycroft: the clamping type cost roughly an order of magnitude more at mcmaster
03:44 PM roycroft: my intent is to not have to do more than a handful of removals/reinstalls at most when fitting them
03:45 PM roycroft: if i'm constantly disassembling/reassembling then something is horribly wrong and i'm not making any money
03:46 PM roycroft: in theory, if i've designed the machine well, tested the electronics on the bench before installation, install the screws properly, and make the mounts properly i should only have to install the couplers once
03:48 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:48 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: I'd say 9 out of 10 DIY CNC's that work well use the couplers that you have chosen
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: clamp or set screw
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: in the middle of nowhere https://cnc-specialty-store.com/
03:53 PM roycroft: i have not chosen them yet
03:53 PM roycroft: i have selected them as candidates
03:55 PM gregcnc: I found them looking for grease or bearings a few years ago. they do have some expensive goodies
03:55 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, can you ping it with mesaflash --readhmid?
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: I'm up that way often, I should stop in there
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: hmm address is a metal shed type strip mall
04:04 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/rotary/Broach/Test_Keyway3.jpg
04:04 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/rotary/Broach/Test_Keyway9.jpg
04:04 PM Tom_L: slight improvement
04:08 PM JT-Shop: looks pretty good
04:09 PM Tom_L: the right tools helps alot too
04:14 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop2, did you try to interrogate the mesa card with mesaflash?
04:15 PM Tom_L: dunno why Angry IP didn't see it
04:23 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:24 PM _unreal_: ok I have NOTHING planned for once
04:24 PM Tom_L: it should work out for ya then
04:24 PM _unreal_: well may go to the food store for a few things but other then that tonight going to try and fight the motor controllers again
04:25 PM roycroft: i have a long list of chores
04:25 PM roycroft: i'd be glad to share some of it with you
04:25 PM _unreal_: :p
04:25 PM roycroft: i'm finding that i have a whole heck of a lot of design work to do for this mill conversion
04:26 PM roycroft: but i did get the linuxcnc computer pulled out of the rack
04:26 PM Tom_L: that's a start
04:26 PM roycroft: so maybe i'll get the os reinstalled and put 2.8 on it
04:26 PM roycroft: i can't really do any bench testing until that bit is done
04:26 PM Tom_L: i wound up building 2.8 from source
04:26 PM _unreal_: I got my daughters computer re-installed
04:26 PM roycroft: i installed buster +2.8 the other day in a virtual machine
04:26 PM Tom_L: i had 2.8.0 pre1 on buster and found it just easier to build the release
04:27 PM roycroft: it was pretty straightforward
04:27 PM _unreal_: was a win7 computer with the original os from the former owner. now its got a nice clean install
04:27 PM roycroft: took less than a half hour
04:27 PM Tom_L: i just didn't care for the xfce desktop
04:27 PM roycroft: i don't remember what desktop environment i picked
04:27 PM roycroft: something really lightweight, i'm sure
04:27 PM Tom_L: the iso lets you pick?
04:27 PM roycroft: the os installer does
04:27 PM roycroft: i did not use the linuxcnc iso
04:28 PM Tom_L: oh you're going that route too then
04:28 PM roycroft: i installed buster and installed linuxcnc from packages
04:28 PM roycroft: but i did not build linuxcnc from source
04:28 PM Tom_L: there's quite a list of dependencies to install ahead of the build
04:28 PM roycroft: i used aptitude to get it
04:28 PM Tom_L: ahh ok
04:29 PM roycroft: it looks like i picked xfse for the vm
04:29 PM roycroft: xfce
04:30 PM roycroft: before i do the production install on the linuxcnc computer i should probably spend a little time checking out the various desktop environments
04:30 PM Tom_L: i personally like mate
04:30 PM roycroft: but yeah
04:31 PM roycroft: i started the build at 9:04pm one night
04:31 PM roycroft: and finished t 9:30
04:31 PM roycroft: and i installed the rt kernel
04:31 PM roycroft: not that it matters on a virtual machine doing emulation
04:32 PM roycroft: but i wanted to replicate the steps required to install on an actual machine that will be doing actual work
04:38 PM Deejay: gn8
04:40 PM JT-Shop: for a machine I prefer openbox for general use mate
04:41 PM roycroft: i'll give it a go
04:41 PM roycroft: i have time to build a vm before the end of the work day
04:47 PM roycroft: i'll have a touchscreen for the production machine
04:47 PM roycroft: i'm not sure if any of the linux desktop environments have touchscreen support
04:48 PM roycroft: but i also don't anticipate doing general os stuff at the console on the linuxcnc machine, so it probably doesn't matter
04:48 PM Tom_L: about all i do is transfer files and once in a while irc
04:49 PM roycroft: i have a laptop that i can take into the shop with me for internet access
04:49 PM roycroft: my linuxcnc machine will not be connected to the internet once i have things installed
04:50 PM roycroft: openbox is not on the list of choices during the os install
04:50 PM roycroft: but i can probably install it later quite easily
04:51 PM roycroft: yup, aptitude will snarf it for me
04:51 PM Tom_L: it's nice for transferring files from my office cad pc
04:51 PM roycroft: the linuxcnc machine will be connected to my local network
04:51 PM roycroft: but not the internet
04:51 PM roycroft: so it won't be totally isolated
04:52 PM roycroft: i have a fairly large nas that i built that i use as a file server, and almost everything i deal with lives on the nas
04:52 PM roycroft: the linuxcnc machine will be able to talk to the nas
04:53 PM roycroft: and while i run gitlab on a virtual machine, its repository is nfs mounted from the nas
04:54 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if debian has a lite os with no desktop? That's how I install openbox on Rpi's
04:55 PM roycroft: i did not choose a desktop environment
04:55 PM roycroft: so whatever it defaults to
04:55 PM roycroft: twm? :)
04:55 PM JT-Shop: https://wiki.debian.org/Openbox
04:55 PM JT-Shop: the livedvd you get xfce :( IMHO is clunky and hard to use
04:56 PM roycroft: i want simple and uncluttered
04:56 PM roycroft: i don't use the livedvd
04:56 PM roycroft: i install buster and then install linuxcnc from the apt repository
04:57 PM roycroft: i prefer configuring the os myself
04:58 PM JT-Shop: https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
04:58 PM JT-Shop: that's the basic debian
04:59 PM roycroft: yes, that's what i use
04:59 PM roycroft: it looks like it's installing gnome when i tell it i want openbox
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: I use the LCNC ISO's for testing so I have the same problems as everyone else
05:00 PM JT-Shop: https://www.dwarmstrong.org/minimal-debian/
05:00 PM JT-Shop: interesting
05:01 PM roycroft: olivia just called me from apple support
05:01 PM roycroft: apparently i have been infected and she wants to help me
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: kewl, is she wearing a mask?
05:02 PM gregcnc: bwahah you don't want her to get infected
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: are they using psychic bullshit protocol or PBP?
05:03 PM JT-Shop: https://www.dwarmstrong.org/img/minimal-debian/207.png
05:04 PM roycroft: we did not get that far
05:04 PM roycroft: not even far enough for her to ask me for my credit card number
05:04 PM roycroft: openbox seems really really slow so far
05:04 PM roycroft: but that's probably because it's also using gnome
05:04 PM gregcnc: should have told her the other scammer from this morning already got all your money
05:05 PM JT-Shop: yea don't install any desktop just the above
05:05 PM roycroft: i don't get how anyone falls for any of that crap
05:05 PM roycroft: i mean
05:05 PM roycroft: "this is the irs. you owe us $300. you need to pay us immediately or we will come to your house, arrest you, and put you in jail"
05:06 PM gregcnc: thank you that would be more comfortable than where I'm at now
05:06 PM roycroft: "to pay immediately please meet our agent at the rv in the back of the wal*mart parking lot. present 3 $100 gift cards to our agent to pay your tax bill in full"
05:06 PM roycroft: and people actually do that
05:06 PM JT-Shop: come to my house and say hello to my little friend
05:07 PM Tom_L: Smith or Wesson?
05:07 PM JT-Shop: Kimber
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: I keep telling them I jammed the $100 bills into the screen
05:09 PM JT-Shop: and his big brother Remington
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: the problem must be on their end
05:10 PM CaptHindsight: ask them what you can get for $400
05:14 PM JT-Shop: answer the phone with "what's your relation to the deceased?"
05:15 PM roycroft: olivia just called me back
05:15 PM roycroft: i guess she was unhappy that i hung up on her earlier
05:16 PM roycroft: she'll be even more unhappy that i hung up on her again
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: ask for a callback number and post it on 4chan
05:16 PM roycroft: it's a fake caller id
05:17 PM roycroft: and olivia is a robot
05:17 PM roycroft: i don't think she would be able to field questions well
05:17 PM roycroft: unless she's related to siri
05:17 PM roycroft: then there's a chance
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: gibberish tends to confuse them
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: got 6 or more of similar calls today
05:18 PM roycroft: so i should speak in tongues when i answer the phone?
05:18 PM * roycroft goes on amazon to buy some of that old-time religion really quick
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: if you're bored and have the time, get a real person and waste their time
05:19 PM JT-Shop: answer the phone using fonrtier gibberish
05:19 PM JT-Shop: frontier
05:19 PM roycroft: or i should get back to studying gaelic, so i'm closer to fluent in it
05:20 PM Tom_L: senators have been calling me lately
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: Foghorn Leghorn is a good accent
05:20 PM roycroft: the shouty wanna-be congressional candidate who is certain to lose is the only politician who is still calling me
05:20 PM Tom_L: funny they never bothered calling before now
05:21 PM roycroft: the one who is an unemployed dancer
05:21 PM roycroft: who wants to create jobs by eliminating the minimum wage
05:21 PM roycroft: who thinks eugene is portland
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: Russian Election Interference Hotline, hot sale today!
05:22 PM roycroft: one more week
05:22 PM roycroft: and then the insanity shifts
05:23 PM roycroft: i think i'll be changing the rules of the drinking game come wednesday next
05:23 PM roycroft: for every sentence the the president says that does *not* contain the word "hoax" or "rigged", i'll take a shot
05:23 PM roycroft: because i should prefer to remain sober
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, smells like Dec 2000 again
05:24 PM roycroft: even if trump wins he's gonna be saying it was rigged
05:25 PM roycroft: just like he did in 2016
05:25 PM roycroft: and continues to do
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: most people in the USA are so use3d to being around or under crazy people that they really don't see it as illness or even care
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: like kids in poopy diapers, they are comfortable with it
05:27 PM roycroft: yeah, when i hear people say "we love him because he's just like us!" i say to myself "really, you are proudly proclaiming that you are ape-shit crazy?"
05:28 PM Tom_L: not sure which i dislike more, election or tax time
05:28 PM roycroft: well
05:28 PM roycroft: elections are very taxing
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: they are, and they don't want help
05:32 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
05:32 PM roycroft: this vm is running really really slowly
05:32 PM roycroft: and i've given it enough resources
05:32 PM roycroft: i think it's gnome
05:32 PM roycroft: i need to do something cleaner
05:32 PM JT-Shop: gnome is the most bloated one of all
05:33 PM roycroft: well when i installed xbox it installed gnome
05:33 PM roycroft: er
05:33 PM roycroft: openbox
05:33 PM JT-Shop: that doesn't sound right
05:33 PM roycroft: i can't stand gnome
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: the old Gnome was my favorite
05:34 PM roycroft: gnome - trying to make *nix as horrible as windows
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: up to 2
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: then they went nuts
05:35 PM roycroft: gnome is definitely running
05:36 PM roycroft: and i did not choose it as a desktop environment when i did the os install
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: openbox depends on Gnome or just with debian?
05:36 PM roycroft: but when i did apt install openbox it spent a bunch of time installing gnome crap
05:36 PM roycroft: no, open box does not depend on gnome
05:36 PM roycroft: but it appears that the debian package is built that way
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: i blame debian until you find further evidence
05:37 PM _unreal_: I was going to say XBOX lol
05:37 PM roycroft: and it's not worth spanding any time on it
05:37 PM roycroft: i'll just try something else
05:37 PM roycroft: i really plan on doing next to nothing at the os level
05:37 PM roycroft: except click on the linuxcnc icon
05:37 PM roycroft: so i really don't care what is running, as long as it's clean and lean
05:38 PM roycroft: gnome is the opposite of that
05:38 PM roycroft: the mother of all opposites to that
05:38 PM JT-Shop: mate is the least annoying
05:38 PM JT-Shop: IMHO
05:38 PM roycroft: i might fire up an xterm upon occasion
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: i miss the bottom of the taskbar widgets but not anymore
05:38 PM roycroft: i'll try that next
05:38 PM roycroft: mate is an option at os install time
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: miss/missed
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: printing in Linux seems to be getting worse
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: often I have to open pdf's in GIMP to get them to print properly
05:40 PM roycroft: ok, the old vm is gone
05:40 PM roycroft: new one installing with mate now
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: have to scale to avoid cropping the prints
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: setting margins seems to do nothing
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: they are in the print settings but don't seem to do anything
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: but oh well
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: no Cups updates for a year
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: the main dev works for Apple now
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: so looks like another fork is in the works
05:42 PM roycroft: that gnome guy destroyed linux printing
05:42 PM roycroft: i was at a talk he gave at a usenix about 20 years ago
05:43 PM roycroft: he was going on and on and on about how we need to make linux more windows-like
05:43 PM roycroft: totally trashed the unix philosophy of small tools that do one thing well
05:43 PM roycroft: he was ranting about how horrible the design of unix was
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: pulse audio, systemd, etc sure
05:43 PM roycroft: and dmr was in the room during this talk
05:44 PM roycroft: he was not impressed
05:44 PM roycroft: but the gnome guy was really all pissed off about unix printing
05:44 PM roycroft: and how gnome had a new printing model that was more windows-like
05:44 PM roycroft: and so much superior
05:44 PM Tom_L: roycroft, just install a terminal with no gui
05:45 PM CaptHindsight: I don't print much but I wanted 1 page from a pdf earlier and it took 5 tries to get it not crop off the left 1/4"
05:45 PM roycroft: that was the same usenix where the apple guy was giving a alk about shells
05:45 PM roycroft: and someone asked him about porting ksh to mac os
05:45 PM roycroft: and he gave a bunch of excuses about not having the resources to do it properly
05:46 PM roycroft: an audience member raised his hand and said "i'd be happy to port it for you"
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: hah
05:46 PM roycroft: and the apple guy said "well we can't just have random people adding code to our os"
05:46 PM roycroft: the guy responded "i'm david korn"
05:46 PM Tom_L: yeah they've always been a bit up tight over stuff like that
05:46 PM roycroft: and the apple guy said "well like i said, we can't just have random people adding code to our os"
05:47 PM roycroft: that got a pretty good laugh
05:47 PM roycroft: god damn it
05:47 PM roycroft: olivia just called again
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: sounds like a well trained corporate Linux sponsor
05:48 PM Tom_L: she really likes you
05:48 PM Tom_L: maybe you should reconsider
05:48 PM roycroft: i noticed that the old bell labs folks stopped frequenting usenix shortly after that one
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: hope was lost
05:48 PM roycroft: it's too bad
05:48 PM roycroft: they always threw the best parties
05:49 PM roycroft: especially the berkeley guys
05:50 PM roycroft: this os install needs to finish before olivia calls again
05:50 PM roycroft: actually, i think i'll block that fake number from my phone switch
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: most of the low level/firmware type Linux people I knew are at Google, intel, AMD or Apple
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: pretty quiet now or promote some open source that has no comments or is open but as unhelpful as possible to anyone without an NDA
05:52 PM roycroft: oh, it's using a different fake local number every time
05:52 PM roycroft: damn
05:52 PM roycroft: hard to block
05:54 PM jdh: ITYM, impossible to block
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: just got one about candidates from a different city
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: city/state
05:54 PM CaptHindsight: how many times can one man vote?
05:55 PM CaptHindsight: and in how mnay places?
05:55 PM roycroft: she's calling again
05:55 PM roycroft: but i just finished the install
05:55 PM roycroft: and mate is like 10x faster than gnome/openbox
05:56 PM JT-Cave: you mean gnome + openbox
05:56 PM roycroft: i got a call for a congressional rep from a different district the other day
05:56 PM roycroft: yeah, gnome + openbox
05:56 PM roycroft: olivia left a voicemail
05:57 PM CaptHindsight: with VOIP there are so many options for call routing
05:57 PM roycroft: i have voip here
05:57 PM roycroft: but when the cid is faked it's hard to set up rules to divert the calls
05:58 PM roycroft: and they're being faked with local numbers
05:58 PM roycroft: so i can't just block all calls from the scammer
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: unless you whitelist
05:58 PM roycroft: yeah, i can't really do that on a business line
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: well they don't seem to want to crack down on number spoofing, sexual abuse, racism and a number of other issues
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: for phones voicemail acts as a great filter
06:00 PM roycroft: yes, and that's why i'm heading out to the shop
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: i rarely get emergency phone calls
06:00 PM roycroft: i can delete all the bogus voicemails later
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: see you later
06:00 PM JT-Cave: you need something like if your not a robot press the 1 key
06:02 PM JT-Cave: geez, I made the poop table and roost 8' long thinking I'd get 6-8 chickens but ended up with 12 so now I need some clever way to have at least 10' of roost
06:36 PM roycroft: i don't fucking believe it
06:36 PM roycroft: i went to market to get some food for dinner
06:36 PM roycroft: i got seven more voicemails from olivia while i was gone
06:36 PM roycroft: and i just now got a spam page
06:36 PM roycroft: that's the first one i've ever gotten
06:37 PM roycroft: i did not know that anyone even knew what a pager is any more
06:38 PM roycroft: from: admin@shafertrading.com - we are unable to verify your facebook profile. please log into facebook.com and update your information
06:40 PM roycroft: now what should i do?
06:40 PM roycroft: set up my network monitoring system to send me telegrams when there's an issue?
06:41 PM roycroft: or maybe i can set up a semaphore network like the french did in the 1870s
06:41 PM roycroft: we have enough hills around here
06:43 PM _unreal_: ok so I just got some interesting results
06:43 PM _unreal_: I GOT FUCKING motion
06:43 PM _unreal_: using the motor controllers. the GREEN enable LED has never lit up
06:43 PM roycroft: and olivia is calling again
06:43 PM _unreal_: but I got what apears to be FULL power
06:44 PM _unreal_: BUT I also get no static noise on the motors
06:44 PM _unreal_: I set the motor to HALF stepping because the arduino just cant handle the higher pulse rate
06:44 PM _unreal_: so I was doing some testing motion testing
06:44 PM _unreal_: and got it upto 4000 pulse rate
06:45 PM _unreal_: moving VERY well and at a SPEED that is desirable
06:47 PM _unreal_: so I was running it back and forth
06:47 PM _unreal_: and then it just stoppped
06:47 PM _unreal_: I didnt think much of it and my father kept talking AT me totally took my attention away
06:47 PM _unreal_: the single motor controller I was using smoked
06:47 PM _unreal_: any ideas what went wrong?
06:48 PM _unreal_: is there any chance setting the pulse rate to high did anything?
06:48 PM _unreal_: hello?
06:50 PM roycroft: sounds like your father owes you a motor controller
06:50 PM roycroft: i have no idea what happened though
06:50 PM _unreal_: it was running at the mast speed I could get it to go and it just STOPPED. I hit cancle and noticed it didnt do a ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzstop
06:51 PM _unreal_: he walked into the other room and kept talking
06:51 PM _unreal_: then I thought I heard a quiet crackle. when I looked I saw smoke rising OH SHIT
06:52 PM _unreal_: so I was half stepping....
06:52 PM _unreal_: I'm wondering if that motor controller didnt like the half stepping or something?
06:52 PM _unreal_: that is its lowest stetting
06:53 PM _unreal_: next is 1/8th, 1/10, 1/16, 1/20 etc.... upto 1/128
06:53 PM gregcnc: is input voltage correct?
06:53 PM _unreal_: 26v
06:53 PM _unreal_: 36v
06:53 PM gregcnc: measured?
06:53 PM _unreal_: measured no
06:53 PM _unreal_: its a switching
06:53 PM gregcnc: could be anything
06:54 PM _unreal_: if it was a transformer I could see maybe being a voltage but its a switching and I was drawing about 1/3 its rating.
06:55 PM gregcnc: then, you should connect another driver and see if it burns up
06:55 PM gregcnc: always measure
06:55 PM _unreal_: its rated for 50v
06:56 PM _unreal_: there is no way a switching PSU rated for 36v 12amps is going to pump out over 50v
06:56 PM gregcnc: seems like you have it under control then
06:56 PM _unreal_: My bet is that it wants micro stepping
06:56 PM _unreal_: and didnt like the half stepping at max step rate
06:57 PM _unreal_: meaning it likely exceeded the rate of the flyback diodes
06:57 PM roycroft: and olivia again
06:57 PM roycroft: it is time for me to go away from the phone for quite a while
06:58 PM _unreal_: roycroft, at least you have communication lol MY X wife everything was a secret
06:59 PM roycroft: olivia is a robocaller trying to get my money
06:59 PM roycroft: i would not call that communication
06:59 PM roycroft: i would call it a serious pain in the butt
06:59 PM _unreal_: heh
06:59 PM roycroft: are you suggesting i marry her, then divorce her, so that she'll leave me alone?
07:00 PM _unreal_: would you guys agree that maybe the motor controller doesnt like low micro stepping?
07:00 PM roycroft: maybe i'll marry her then cheat on her with alexa
07:00 PM _unreal_: YOU BASTARD
07:00 PM gregcnc: no. the controller shouldn't care what is it?
07:02 PM _unreal_: what I dont understand is why the green light never lights up but it enables? when the enable pin is on
07:02 PM gregcnc: maybe it's garbage to begin with
07:03 PM _unreal_: https://kenswu.zzvps.com/Function/Manual/DS_FMD2740C_EN.pdf
07:03 PM _unreal_: chines controller
07:05 PM _unreal_: gregcnc, thats what I'm saying, I'm thinking it wants micro stepping to walk the power down in the motor coils per step rather then big power steps
07:05 PM gregcnc: I doubt it.
07:06 PM _unreal_: any suggestions then on GOOD motor controllers for stepper motors? 400oz/in, 3amp steppers
07:06 PM gregcnc: i've used geckodrive
07:06 PM _unreal_: sigh...
07:06 PM _unreal_: ya I dont have the money for those right now....
07:07 PM _unreal_: AT LEAST I have 3 working controllers
07:07 PM _unreal_: currently
07:07 PM roycroft: i bought gecko drives for my machine
07:07 PM gregcnc: is that particular brand of that generic drive reputable?
07:07 PM _unreal_: the company that built it apears to be KOA
07:07 PM _unreal_: KIA
07:08 PM _unreal_: I was running the motor controller back and forth trying to heat up the motors
07:08 PM _unreal_: just to get a feel for what its going to do
07:08 PM gregcnc: does that type of drive regen and drive the source voltage up?
07:08 PM _unreal_: https://kenswu.zzvps.com/Function/Manual/DS_FMD2740C_EN.pdf
07:08 PM _unreal_: you tell me
07:09 PM _unreal_: that is the ONLY info I have on it
07:09 PM _unreal_: and have found on line
07:09 PM gregcnc: yeah part of the reason not to buy that stuff
07:09 PM _unreal_: I'm going to take the burnt controller apart and see what the controller chip is when I get a chance later on
07:10 PM gregcnc: I think there are countless source for that design
07:10 PM gregcnc: but I know nothing about them
07:10 PM _unreal_: there is almost n othing to them on the inside, one big chip, a simple logic chip like a 74xx series? and some other chip
07:10 PM _unreal_: other then that a few big caps and I forget what else is in there
07:11 PM _unreal_: what I dont get is why the motor never did the static sound
07:11 PM _unreal_: when enabled
07:11 PM _unreal_: err at least running
07:11 PM _unreal_: it clearly would hold.
07:13 PM gregcnc: 20kHz may be hard to hear
07:14 PM roycroft: are you still about, jt-shop?
07:14 PM roycroft: or jt-anywhere?
07:15 PM _unreal_: 20khz?
07:16 PM roycroft: i have some pictures of my finished bench, finally
07:16 PM roycroft: https://www.roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Finished-1.jpeg
07:16 PM roycroft: https://www.roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Finished-2.jpeg
07:16 PM roycroft: https://www.roycroft.us/Bench/Leg-Vise.jpeg
07:16 PM gregcnc: fark that's nice
07:16 PM roycroft: https://www.roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Dog.jpeg
07:16 PM _unreal_: I thought you where going to show a work bench not art work :)
07:16 PM roycroft: it is a workbench
07:16 PM _unreal_: of art
07:16 PM _unreal_: eh
07:16 PM _unreal_: ehhe
07:16 PM roycroft: no, of roycroft
07:17 PM roycroft: art had nothing to do with it
07:17 PM roycroft: don't go giving him credit for my hard work
07:17 PM gregcnc: geez I lived to 43 and never heard that one
07:18 PM roycroft: i still have to finish the deadman
07:18 PM roycroft: whenever i decide what to do with it
07:18 PM _unreal_: with CPR?
07:18 PM roycroft: but the rest is done
07:18 PM _unreal_: or a club?
07:18 PM roycroft: a drill and a bandsaw, primarily
07:18 PM _unreal_: OH......
07:18 PM roycroft: there will probably be a spokeshave involved at some point
07:19 PM roycroft: anyway
07:19 PM _unreal_: p...u... that controller still stinks
07:19 PM roycroft: that's the workbench that i'll be using for the rest of my life
07:20 PM skunkworks: roycroft: beautiful work!
07:20 PM roycroft: thanks
07:20 PM roycroft: it's probably easier to understand why it took me three months to build it, now that you see the final product
07:21 PM _unreal_: the dove tailing is very unique
07:21 PM roycroft: it's called houndstooth dovetails
07:21 PM _unreal_: god bless you
07:21 PM roycroft: i did not take any pictures from the back, but i did the same dovetails on the back as on the front
07:22 PM roycroft: and up close they're not so nice
07:22 PM roycroft: but they look good from a distance
07:22 PM roycroft: what's interesting is that walnut end cap looks like it's two different colors
07:23 PM roycroft: and that's in part because of the lighting
07:23 PM roycroft: but it really is two different colors
07:23 PM roycroft: the sides of the end cap are sanded to p320 grit
07:23 PM roycroft: but the top is sanded to p80
07:23 PM roycroft: and that makes a big difference on how the finish looks
07:23 PM roycroft: and olivia is calling again :(
07:24 PM roycroft: i just deleted 11 voicemails from her from today
07:30 PM roycroft: and she's calling again
07:30 PM roycroft: i think it's time to send all calls straight to voicemail
07:31 PM * roycroft presses the dnd button
07:45 PM Tom_L: ok roycroft
07:45 PM Tom_L: 2 things
07:46 PM Tom_L: tell olivia that _we_ are getting tired of her calls
07:46 PM Tom_L: 2. nice bench
08:04 PM roycroft: thanks
08:04 PM roycroft: on item 2
08:04 PM roycroft: on item 1, she seems to have finally given up
08:04 PM roycroft: sending her straight to voicemail seems to have worked
08:07 PM roycroft: i'm especially happy with how the leg vise turned out
08:07 PM roycroft: i was just guessing a the angles for the chop, but i think it turned out really well
08:09 PM roycroft: and i put a subtle curve in the sides which i think worked out well
08:33 PM veegee: lock washers or nylock nuts?
08:33 PM veegee: I don't like how nylock nuts are expensive and pretty much single use
08:33 PM veegee: but people are saying lock washers are only good for visually indicating if the nut is tightened and not as a locking mechanism
08:46 PM roycroft: i use star washers for a lot of things
08:46 PM roycroft: just to throw that in the mix
08:47 PM roycroft: and when i work in telco central offices star washers are the only acceptable lock washers for securing equipment to the racks
08:47 PM Eric__: roycroft, that's a nice bench, I like that style of end vise
08:47 PM roycroft: keep in mind that i'm in an earthquake 4 zone, and the regulations are pretty strict
08:47 PM roycroft: thanks
08:47 PM roycroft: yes, i do like the wagon vise a *lot*
08:47 PM Eric__: is the sliding support going to get some kind of holder?
08:48 PM roycroft: it's so much better than those euro-style end vises, which are hard to make and sag
08:48 PM roycroft: there's a bench dog in it
08:49 PM Eric__: I see, it's all the way in
08:49 PM roycroft: yes
08:49 PM roycroft: the bench dog slots are angled at 2 degrees
08:49 PM roycroft: the wagon vise one is angled towards the others
08:49 PM roycroft: and the others are angled towards the bench dog vise
08:49 PM roycroft: the dogs are longer than the thickness of the bench top
08:49 PM Eric__: my end vise isn't sagging much, which is lucky considering how much I abuse it
08:50 PM roycroft: so when i use them i can just reach under and push the ones i need to use up
08:50 PM roycroft: i made the dogs out of african mahogany, with ash springs
08:50 PM roycroft: ash is really nice and springy
08:50 PM roycroft: almost as good as hickory for that
08:51 PM Eric__: I really should add springs to my bench dogs
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: can wooden clothing become a thing, ash vests, birch trousers, pine shirt?
08:51 PM roycroft: i have some bamboo tee shirts
08:51 PM roycroft: and birch has been used for clothing for millennia
08:52 PM CaptHindsight: bark bark bark
08:52 PM Eric__: Japanese woodworkers make some weird stuff with shavings
08:52 PM roycroft: and of course the dutch have wooden shoes
08:53 PM roycroft: klompen
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: pontoons for your feet
08:53 PM roycroft: a very onomatopoetic word if i ever heard one
08:55 PM Eric__: apparently wood clothing is a thing. Beech
08:55 PM roycroft: beech bra?
08:55 PM Eric__: regenerated cellulose
08:55 PM roycroft: sounds pretty skimpy
08:55 PM Eric__: so you probably can't tell it's wood
08:55 PM roycroft: rayon is the first synthetic fabric
08:56 PM roycroft: and it's made of wood cellulose
08:56 PM roycroft: not petroleum
08:56 PM CaptHindsight: "tastes more like wood than wood"
08:56 PM Eric__: nom nom nom
08:58 PM roycroft: i'm not even sure it's correct to call rayon "synthetic"
08:58 PM roycroft: it's made of wood pulp that's been chemically treated
08:58 PM roycroft: but it is still cellulose
08:58 PM roycroft: i.e. it's not transformed into another compound
08:58 PM CaptHindsight: when rayon sweaters grow on threes yah cans stops callin them synthetics
08:58 PM roycroft: it's more like a highly refined natural fabric
08:59 PM Eric__: socks don't grow on cotton plants either
08:59 PM Eric__: or sheep, for that matter
09:00 PM CaptHindsight: heh sock trees
09:00 PM roycroft: sock it to me sock it to me sock it to me sock it to me
09:01 PM roycroft: btw, that workbench has a split top
09:01 PM roycroft: the walnut strip down the center is removable
09:02 PM roycroft: it normally sits just below the surface so i can use the entire bench top as though it were a single soild piece
09:03 PM roycroft: if i remove it and turn it around 180 degrees it sits proud by about 8mm,so i can use it as a planing stop
09:03 PM roycroft: as in this picture:
09:03 PM roycroft: https://www.roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Finished-2.jpeg
09:03 PM roycroft: and if i need to clamp something fairly narrow i can remove it completely and put some clamps in the center opening
09:04 PM roycroft: the split roubo bench is a brilliant design, and i'm so glad i did not make the scandanavian bench that i almost made 20 years ago
09:05 PM roycroft: the split roubo design became popular only in the past decade or so
09:24 PM roycroft: why am i seeing joe biden ads on the television?
09:24 PM roycroft: there's no chance he'll lose in oregon
09:26 PM XXCoder: theres nothing for sure
09:26 PM XXCoder: vote anyway
09:26 PM XXCoder: i dont want trump to lose. I want trump to be CRUSHED
09:27 PM XXCoder: in wa its mostly pointless to have ads now. most of us already voted
09:30 PM roycroft: i voted over a week ago
09:30 PM roycroft: minutes after my ballot arrived
09:32 PM XXCoder: had to wait couple days
09:32 PM XXCoder: we always vote together with discussion. my family
09:32 PM roycroft: there's a ballot drop very close to my house
09:32 PM XXCoder: here its not bad. heard texas its one each area. wow bad
09:33 PM roycroft: yes, one per county
09:33 PM roycroft: because democracy
09:34 PM roycroft: there are 2.5 million people in harris county (where houston is located)
09:34 PM roycroft: and one ballot drop
09:34 PM roycroft: oh, sorry
09:34 PM roycroft: there are 4.7 million people in harris county now
09:35 PM roycroft: and one ballot drop
09:37 PM roycroft: that 2.5 million is the number of registered voters
09:37 PM Tom_L: covid commune
09:37 PM roycroft: if 1000 people/hour were able to drop off their ballots there (1 every 3.6 seconds), it would take over 3 months for everyone to vote
09:38 PM XXCoder: wiw i knew it was bad, but that bad wow
09:38 PM roycroft: so most folks in harris county will be voting in person, and infecting each other
09:38 PM Tom_L: spread the love
09:39 PM Eric__: Harris early voting is already more than 2016 early voting with a week to go
09:39 PM roycroft: that's how it is most places
09:40 PM Eric__: there are 4-5 tx counties like that
09:40 PM roycroft: in spite of republican attempts to severely restrict early voting
09:40 PM roycroft: we're going to see the biggest turnout in well over a century
09:40 PM Eric__: funny thing is they are trying to keep late ballots from counting and I suspect more republicans will vote late
09:41 PM Eric__: democrats were warned
09:42 PM roycroft: i've given up trying to understand republicans
09:42 PM roycroft: they're not conservative
09:42 PM roycroft: they're not traditionalists
09:43 PM roycroft: i don't know what they are
09:43 PM roycroft: but republican politicians do not represent anyone bu tthemselves and their corporate masters
09:43 PM roycroft: certainly the do not represent them that vote for them
09:44 PM roycroft: yet people continue to vote for them
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: angry, scared, broken
09:44 PM roycroft: democrats are angry, scared, and broken too
09:44 PM roycroft: because they're not being represented
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: yes, tragic consequences or boon to business depending on your viewpoint
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: breads and circuses
09:46 PM CaptHindsight: the ignorant masses are easily fooled and led
09:47 PM roycroft: i've mostly given up on politics as a means of solving problems
09:47 PM roycroft: all i want is a president who is not a jerk
09:48 PM * roycroft has lowered his hopes and expectations a lot
09:48 PM CaptHindsight: most people like jerks now, you are a jerk for complaining about a jerk now
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: besides very conservative Europeans who looks at uhmerica as being sane anymore
09:50 PM XXCoder: roy yeah they got worse and worse after they started worshipping ayd rand
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: we have an internet troll as a leader
09:50 PM roycroft: who is mentally six years old
09:50 PM roycroft: but i guess you already said that when you said he's an internet troll
09:53 PM roycroft: maybe after he dumps melania i can set him up with olivia
09:56 PM roycroft: actually, i guess he doesn't need to dump melania first
09:56 PM roycroft: he can just pay olivia $130,000 and all will be fine
09:57 PM Rab: Who?
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: his supporters don't notice or care that he is immature and mentally ill
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: they have their own self destructive issues
09:58 PM Rab: Olivia Troye? Olivia Newton-John?
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: they are comfortable with him
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: his bot caller
09:59 PM roycroft: olivia from apple who has called me about 20 times today
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: if you see empathy or caring as a weakness it's easy to see how they dislike "liberals"
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: they don't have these qualities
10:02 PM roycroft: because empathy and caring are traditional, conservative values
10:02 PM roycroft: which is why conservatives reject them
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: and see people as suckers or weak for having them
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: they are comfortable with the superficial "tough guys"
10:04 PM roycroft: justice thomas just swore in justice barrett
10:04 PM roycroft: smirky mcsmirkface is smiling through his bruises now
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: do you see how they might view Obama as a sucker right now?
10:04 PM roycroft: he is kind of a sucker
10:22 PM CaptHindsight: the broken children are running things, don't expect much to be fixed anytime soon
10:23 PM roycroft: we need to take away some of their toys
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: nah just any benefits from medical research paid for with public funds
10:25 PM roycroft: but for me, i need to keep reading my mesa manuals
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: the smart selfish ones know that during a more liberal administration that they will be taken care of
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: so it's win win
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: they play both sides
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: without suffering consequences these children don't learn
10:28 PM roycroft: i refuse to use the terms "liberal" and "conservative" any more
10:28 PM roycroft: because the people who wear those labels do not resemble them at all
10:31 PM CaptHindsight: sure, what people call liberal here is typically center right in many other places
10:31 PM roycroft: i'm not even talking about that
10:31 PM CaptHindsight: so if you control the words,you control the narrative
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: it's more of a mental health issue, but we won't address the problem this way
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: we just redefine what is normal vs abnormal
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: we still like history repeaters