#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 24 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:46 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
02:47 AM XXCoder: scary machine https://youtu.be/oUWOOFII144
03:25 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Not "completely" scarry. Now this, REALLY scarry as it likes to tip side-to-side... https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/power-saws/miter-table-tile-saws/4-in-mighty-mite-table-saw-with-blade-61608.html
03:26 AM XXCoder: lol
03:26 AM XXCoder: dont look too safe but in least its enclosed
03:28 AM jymmmm: Eh, sorta. The "table top" is held in place by a single bolt
03:28 AM XXCoder: yeah
03:29 AM jymmmm: It needs to be bolted down to playwood/table top to tame it
03:30 AM XXCoder: i guess its for small wood and light ones too
03:31 AM jymmmm: Yeah, uses a direct drive sewing machine motor, so high rpm. Remove the tale top and turn it on, even scarrier =)
03:31 AM jymmmm: table*
03:54 AM Tom_L: morning
03:59 AM XXCoder: heys
05:08 AM Deejay: hi
05:41 AM _unreal_: yippy off to work :( and I get to take my daughter because as per the norm my xwife didnt take her
05:52 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:56 AM XXCoder: yo
06:18 AM veegee: Yay, the spare parts pallet for that forklift has multiple spare parts for everything on that forklift
06:18 AM veegee: there are 3 replacement seats and steering wheels, brand nw
06:18 AM veegee: well new as in unused, but they're from the 1980s or 90s maybe
06:18 AM veegee: And sooo many replacement hydraulic seals
06:19 AM XXCoder: huh did you have it whole time or was delivery slow on it
06:19 AM veegee: Had it the whole time
06:19 AM veegee: just never dug into it
06:19 AM veegee: it has spare engine valves, every single bearing you can imagine, multiple starter motors
06:19 AM veegee: that's just at first glance
06:20 AM veegee: Why it has 3 spare starter motors I'll never know, but I'll take it
06:20 AM XXCoder: lol nice
06:20 AM XXCoder: also tsk tsk ;)
06:20 AM XXCoder: what if you ordered parts thats also in that [allet lol
06:20 AM veegee: Time to take those cylinders apart and see what's wrong
06:20 AM veegee: I didn't order any parts
06:21 AM veegee: Well just small hydraulic fittings and hoses, not expensive
06:21 AM veegee: But I wanted to switch the NPT connections they were using to JIC anyway
06:23 AM XXCoder: yeah thats why i said what if, i didnt know if you did or not :D
06:26 AM veegee: Going to switch the high vibration air tool whip hoses to JIC as well
06:27 AM veegee: vibration destroys quick connect, so have have a whip hose
06:27 AM veegee: JIC is easy enough to couple/uncouple. Almost like a quick connect itself actulaly
07:33 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:33 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:56 AM Centreline: morning|afternoon|evening all
08:04 AM IntoxicatedHippo: Is there an easy way to have LinuxCNC dynamically change the number of microsteps for a stepper motor based on the required speed when using software stepgen? I realise I could use separate hardware to do it but I'm wondering if it's possible within LinuxCNC.
08:25 AM JT-Cave: most likely not while running a program if that's what you mean
08:27 AM IntoxicatedHippo: It is, I'm looking to do something like what GeckoDrive's do where at higher speeds they'lll change from a sine wave to a square wave
08:28 AM JT-Cave: yea gecko's are very clever and nice drives
08:30 AM jdh: is your stepper driver also going to change its uStep configuration at the same time?
08:31 AM IntoxicatedHippo: Yes, I'm looking at the TMC2590 which is capable of it and even recommends it
08:32 AM Tom_L: i think once the config is read into memory on startup that's what you get for that session
08:35 AM jdh: you would have to have some mechanism to tell them both to switch at exactly the same time.
08:38 AM IntoxicatedHippo: I was thinking linuxcnc could just set a line high to tell the driver to change mode
08:40 AM IntoxicatedHippo: I don't suppose anyone makes a driver IC that does what the geckodrives do? I can't really justify a third of my machines cost going to geckodrives
08:40 AM Tom_L: you would have to track the feed of each axis and trigger the line yourself if it's even possible
08:41 AM Tom_L: you would if you ever owned one
08:44 AM JT-Cave: ain't that the truth, my 203v's have been running for a long time on the plasma
08:45 AM JT-Cave: I couldn't justify wasting my time trying to build a drive much less 3 of them, but then if I had nothing else to do it might be a fun experiment
08:46 AM Centreline: my microsteps are set with a dipswitch combo on the drivers on generic chinese dm860a's, so in theory you could hack them about to get the dip position under external control. But it would be a mess...
08:47 AM jdh: mine are only read at power up
08:48 AM Centreline: I found my overheating stepper culprit btw, fitted new stepper and same, then ordered driver and it arrived,and I noticed the old driver had the stepper amps set wrong
08:48 AM Tom_L: if you changed the microsteps, you would also have to change the steps per rev in the config file or your scale would be off
08:48 AM Centreline: so plus side, I now have a spare working stepper and dm860 if I should decide to put 5th axis on this machine...
08:50 AM jdh: what problem are you trying to solve with the on-the-fly step change?
08:50 AM IntoxicatedHippo: Higher torque at higher speeds
08:51 AM IntoxicatedHippo: I'm thinking I'll just have a microcontroller between the stepper ic and linuxcnc that delays the signal by 1/5 of a second or whatever to do the gecko morphing thing if it can't be done with linuxcnc
08:59 AM Loetmichel: *Meeehehehheheh* Just back from getting my phone i forgot at the company yesterday... decided to go to the hairdresser and get a haircut on the way back. MAN that was TIME! :)
09:05 AM IntoxicatedHippo: Also can I somehow tell linuxcnc to use the rising and falling edge of a step signal to trigger a step?
09:06 AM JT-Cave: you might look in the documents for stepgen to see
09:15 AM Tom_L: https://i.redd.it/xgl5uhtcq1v51.jpg
09:16 AM Tom_L: for all you cabinet wirers
09:21 AM JavaBean: tom_l... that is horrifying
09:22 AM jdh: we had a tech to that to about 50 cables at work
09:23 AM JavaBean: if he is still employeed, i might be looking for a different place to work at
09:23 AM jdh: except they all said "to the CAMAC crate"
09:29 AM Centreline: well, unless they handed the tech a cable serial chart, I'm not totally shocked the tech marked them all as good
09:29 AM Centreline: mark them all good sounds like some throwaway so blame can be allocated later unless it comes with cable serial docs
09:36 AM jdh: here, it was a verbal 'Label all the ones going to the camac crate", so they did.
09:37 AM jdh: nice printed, shrink-wrapped cables. this was 20+ years ago and I still see some of them around. Mostly BNC-Lemo
09:39 AM Centreline: I was on a project once and had to serial mark everything every 3ft, and have every cable traceable by eye in the structured trays, and we used lindy id pro's and the labels faded after 2 years of being in the dc so bad they were unreadable :)
09:40 AM Centreline: and when we had a overheat when a ahu failed, some of the serial labels self destructed with the elevated temps :D
09:41 AM Centreline: 50 47u racks, with labels littering the floor between each :D
09:42 AM Centreline: in a former life, I dont have to rack or cable things for many years now :)
10:45 AM IntoxicatedHippo: Well I found a solution to my problem: There's another trinamic chip (TMC2160) which detects the load on the motor and does the same thing as the geckodrive except based on load instead of speed obviously
10:48 AM IntoxicatedHippo: It also signals when it's under too high of a load to receive another step but I'm not sure how to integrate that with linuxcnc, anything I've been able to find is just about using encoders
10:50 AM IntoxicatedHippo: > Informs the motion controller when motor is not ready to take a new step (low level). The motion controller shall react by delaying the next step until DCO becomes high. The sequencer can buffer up to the effective number of microsteps per fullstep to allow the motion controller to react to assertion of DCO. In case the motor is blocked this wait situation can be terminated after a timeout by providing a long > 1024 clock
10:50 AM IntoxicatedHippo: STEP input, or via the internal VDCMIN setting.
10:51 AM IntoxicatedHippo: Obviously the second part won't be usable without some extra work but is there a way to use the first part?
10:51 AM skunkworks: I would just run the info into adaptive feed. - when the drive starts buffering steps - slow the feed to nothing.
10:55 AM IntoxicatedHippo: Thanks, that's what I was looking for
11:03 AM Centreline: do you have a example of a TMC2160 driver that exposes the signal that this is happening externally?
11:05 AM IntoxicatedHippo: No, I'm going to be building my own
11:05 AM Centreline: Ok, I just looked up some off the shelf drivers in the usual place and they dont expose this chip (was looking with interest...)
11:06 AM Centreline: dont expose this feature rather
11:07 AM Centreline: there's something about a feature called stealthchop,perhaps that uses it internally but without it feeding back to the controller its a bit chocolate fireguard
11:07 AM IntoxicatedHippo: dcstep is what I'm looking at
11:14 AM Intoxica1 is now known as IntoxicatedHippo
11:14 AM buzzmarshall: i am not sure you will find a tmc2160 other then the normal completely built drivers without building your own board or having to hack a existing driver to drag out the signals you want to use
11:19 AM IntoxicatedHippo: Oops, 5160 rather than 2160, but yeah, most prebuilt drivers don't seems to expose the extra features on whatever ICs they use
11:24 AM W1N9Zr0: looks like BTT TMC5160 V1.2 breakout has them on the side
11:24 AM buzzmarshall: if your going to build your own drivers the ti drv8711 is a nice chip to build the driver around as you can expose everything in the chip
11:25 AM buzzmarshall: its just a controller tho as you need to build the output section of the driver yourself which is more work but lets one design the driver for the type of current/voltage for whatever motors you want to use
11:26 AM buzzmarshall: you can even use a web interface to talk to and set the controllers parameters if you want to
12:38 PM * JT-Shop just drilled a 3/32" hole 1 1/2" deep in steel...
12:42 PM JT-Shop: now I just have to make one with the wing on the left (correct) side
12:51 PM Tom_L: :)
12:51 PM Tom_L: practice makes perfect
12:53 PM * JavaBean considers trying to pat pat JT... finds it hard, somehow that dude managed to drill a 3/32 hole that deep without breaking a bit
01:02 PM {HD}: Hey, I am in the market for a non digital vernier caliper? I am looking for something < 8" but 6" might be even better (something smaller for the bag). I don't want to spend > $100 but would prefer more around 50ish...Anyone have a preference or recommendations?
01:10 PM {HD}: Guess I might consider a dial but def nothing with battery.
01:29 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starrett-Vernier-Caliper-Metric-Calibration/dp/9820748755 At the upper level of that price range, actual NIB starrett might be doable
01:30 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starrett-125MB-200-125MB-200MM-Vernier-Calliper/dp/B00GU88M4C/ rather
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: https://shop.mitutoyo.co.uk/web/mitutoyo/en_GB/mitutoyo/01.03.03A/Digital%20ABS%20Caliper%20CoolantProof%20IP67/$catalogue/mitutoyoData/PR/500-762-20/index.xhtml
01:40 PM SpeedEvil: might also fix some of the reasons you're objecting to digital
01:44 PM jdh: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starrett-Master-Vernier-Caliper-No-123-W-Case-7-L299501B/313265538799
02:08 PM Eric__: I'm curious what brand digital is a problem
02:08 PM Eric__: mitutoyo digital are great.
02:13 PM {HD}: Eric__: whats the bettery life of your mit digital?
02:13 PM Eric__: a year or more probably
02:14 PM Eric__: I always have to go looking for the batteries because it has been so long
02:15 PM {HD}: Jdh: thats a nice listing. I think that knife edge might be more what I want though.
02:15 PM {HD}: I like the box. If I end up getting something without a wooden case I will prob cnc a case for them.
02:16 PM Tom_L: yeah i did just that
02:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/calipers/Mitutoyo2.jpg
02:18 PM {HD}: Especially for a travel set. If in the shop they just go in the precision measuring drawer.
02:19 PM * JavaBean considers robbing tom_l again... doesn't want to travel to mars again
02:19 PM {HD}: Tom_L: I like the guage block in there
02:23 PM Centreline: I have older mitutoyo digital,it doesnt auto power off :(
02:23 PM Centreline: so if you forget to power it down after the session, its flat when you come back to it a few days later
02:23 PM Tom_L: i like their digital micrometers
02:24 PM Tom_L: battery lasts forever
02:24 PM Centreline: I bought one of their digi mic's but I suspect its fake, because when I went to use it, it was flat too
02:24 PM W1N9Zr0: mitutoyos last forever if you use the silver oxide SR44 batteries, it's the cheap lithium LR44 that die fast
02:24 PM Centreline: there are a lot of fake mitutoyo and starret's about
02:25 PM Centreline: that, and it was like 50e
02:25 PM Tom_L: https://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/cmimages/003/318/293-831-30.jpg
02:26 PM {HD}: Even Amazon seems to sell fakes.
02:27 PM roycroft: i've had my 4"/100mm mitutoyo for a bit over 3 years and it is still on the battery that came with it
02:28 PM roycroft: i've had several hf digital calipers, and batteries never last more than a few days, even when they're turned off and not being used
02:28 PM {HD}: roycroft: are you using a silver oxide bettery?
02:28 PM roycroft: i have to remember to remove the battery if i want it to work the next time
02:28 PM roycroft: i have no idea, {hd}
02:28 PM roycroft: because i've never replaced it
02:28 PM roycroft: whatever battery was in it when i got it is what is still in it
02:29 PM Tom_L: it's got a mini reactor inside to power it
02:29 PM {HD}: My HF battery is over a year old...
02:29 PM Tom_L: i got a crap pair like that in the shop
02:29 PM roycroft: perhaps their calipers have improved
02:29 PM roycroft: i haven't bought one in years
02:29 PM Tom_L: i've had decent luck with em
02:29 PM roycroft: i can't afford them - as fast as they go through batteries they're more expensive than starrett or mitutoyo
02:30 PM Tom_L: knowing of course you get what you pay for and no more
02:30 PM roycroft: well in my experience, hf digital calipers are the most expensive ones on the market
02:30 PM Tom_L: still on the first battery with mine but i shut them off when not in use
02:30 PM roycroft: i would shut mine off too
02:30 PM roycroft: they don't really shut off though
02:31 PM roycroft: only the display shuts off
02:31 PM Centreline: if I remember to turn off the old mitutoyo its great, it can go for months and just work, it doesnt consume power when its off
02:31 PM roycroft: and it's lcd, so it uses a tiny bit of power
02:31 PM roycroft: i don't turn the mitutoyo off
02:31 PM Tom_L: i had an old fowler that finally bit the dust
02:31 PM roycroft: it turns itself off after a period of time
02:31 PM roycroft: i don't know what that period of time is
02:31 PM roycroft: it's days, not hours or minutes
02:31 PM Centreline: the first gen calipers dont do that, I can come in a day later and its still sat switched on if I forget
02:32 PM {HD}: I measured the quiescent current of the mit digitals I bought on amazon and that how I knew they were fake.
02:32 PM {HD}: It was worse than the hf
02:32 PM roycroft: i bought mine on amazon
02:32 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sure it's genuine
02:32 PM roycroft: that it's on the original battery after 3+ years is a good indicator that it's genuine
02:32 PM Centreline: I have one manual vernier, that I keep for use in the car, because I know it will always be usable
02:33 PM roycroft: i have several analog dial calipers
02:33 PM Tom_L: i gave a nice dial pair away
02:33 PM roycroft: i won't say they'll always work
02:33 PM roycroft: but they'll always work if they're not abused
02:33 PM {HD}: Centreline: yea, that is kind of what I am trying to do. Have one that will live in a bag for months without ever seeing daylight.
02:33 PM Tom_L: invariably they'd always be off by .020"
02:34 PM roycroft: it would be nice to replace them all with digital over time, but that gets expensive
02:34 PM roycroft: if i'm honest, i don't care one bit about the digital readout
02:34 PM roycroft: what i like about the digital ones is that i can switch from inches to mm at the press of a button
02:34 PM roycroft: i don't have to remember which calipers to pick up
02:35 PM Centreline: I like the digital readout, its quicker to read and its easier to set a zero point without disturbing it, but the battery situation annoys me
02:35 PM {HD}: Yea, I think that is why I am going vernier becuase in on top mm on bottom.
02:35 PM {HD}: Dial are one or the other
02:35 PM roycroft: if you get a decent one the battery issue is almost non-existent
02:35 PM Centreline: but I dont get in my shop nearly enough is the real issue
02:36 PM roycroft: i like having calipers at hand no matter where i am in the shop
02:36 PM roycroft: so i have several, that live in various places
02:36 PM {HD}: I do the same. Each station has a caliper at it.
02:36 PM roycroft: calculators are like that too - i have one in my milling machine cabinet, one on my lathe cabinet, one in my welding shop, one on or near each bench
02:36 PM Tom_L: https://www.msi-viking.com/Mitutoyo-293-130-10-MDH-High-accuracy-Sub-Micron-Micrometer-0-1-inch
02:36 PM Tom_L: there's one for ya roycroft
02:37 PM {HD}: Wow
02:37 PM roycroft: that is not a good match for my machinist skills
02:37 PM {HD}: 1.5k
02:37 PM Tom_L: 1 micron accuracy
02:38 PM {HD}: I only keep a calculator on my desk.
02:38 PM Tom_L: accuracy of +/-0.5 micron
02:38 PM roycroft: i got lucky a few years ago - a local st vincent depaul had a half dozen hp48 calculators for $2.99 each
02:38 PM roycroft: i grabbed them all
02:39 PM roycroft: i have an 11c on my desk in my office
02:39 PM roycroft: a 32sii in my backpack
02:39 PM {HD}: Thats a good deal! Especially since you can play space invaders.
02:39 PM Centreline: I use the dro's on the manual machines,but I do have a big button calculator too
02:39 PM roycroft: and i have the 48s distributed about elsewhere
02:40 PM roycroft: i don't need most of the functionality of the 48 in the shop
02:40 PM Centreline: it has a little solar panel to charge, it always works ;)
02:40 PM roycroft: although i should probably write some little programs for them to save some time
02:40 PM roycroft: like a feeds and speeds calculator
02:40 PM roycroft: i do like the multiline display though - that is pretty handy
02:41 PM Tom_L: i got a machinist calculator you can have
02:41 PM roycroft: i'm allergic to calculators with an = key
02:41 PM {HD}: I have a ti-83+ on my desk. I have lots of programs on it for electronic calculations.
02:42 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Calculated-Industries-4088-Machinist-Machining/dp/B00UVY3RDM
02:42 PM Tom_L: useless to me
02:42 PM roycroft: that has a = key
02:42 PM roycroft: i'd break out in a rash if i touched it
02:42 PM roycroft: so no, thans
02:42 PM roycroft: thanks
02:42 PM Tom_L: i didn't say you had to push it
02:43 PM roycroft: well you can send it to me if you want
02:43 PM roycroft: but if you do i'll sell it on ebay
02:43 PM JavaBean: i would use it
02:43 PM roycroft: you might as well do that yourself
02:43 PM Tom_L: one of my kids won it at a skills competetion
02:43 PM Tom_L: he looked at me and did a wtf look
02:43 PM roycroft: everything that caculator does could easily be programmed into the hp48
02:44 PM Tom_L: and i returned a similar look
02:44 PM Centreline: kids just use their phones with a calculator app now anyway, unless its a exam where the phone is banned
02:44 PM roycroft: including the data lookup tables
02:44 PM roycroft: when i started college calculators were banned in exams
02:44 PM roycroft: but slide rules were allowed
02:45 PM {HD}: I still use my slide rule
02:45 PM JavaBean: can the ti-8X calculators still be programmed?? i remember ti did something stupid lately, but can't remember how it affected actually programming the calculators
02:46 PM roycroft: at the time, most of the types of caclulations one needed for college exams were able to be done faster on a slide rule than on a calculator anyway
02:46 PM {HD}: roycroft: whats your 4” model # there appear to be several options.
02:46 PM roycroft: um, i forget
02:46 PM roycroft: let me check
02:46 PM {HD}: JavaBean: my 83+ is 21 years old...
02:47 PM {HD}: I don’t know about the new versions
02:47 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/ControlPanelWiring/ControlPanelFrontPanel.jpeg
02:47 PM JavaBean: hah, the one i have is about that old... hasn't worked in atleast 15
02:47 PM roycroft: that's one of them
02:47 PM roycroft: but i can't read the model number
02:47 PM roycroft: i'll have to go look at one in person
02:48 PM {HD}: The caliper 4” not a calculator.
02:48 PM roycroft: oh
02:48 PM {HD}: I like the label.
02:48 PM roycroft: the calculators are 48s
02:49 PM roycroft: i'll have to look up the caliper
02:51 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IG46SEE/
02:51 PM Centreline: question on vfd braking resistors, I have a 120ohm 600w ceramic resistor, and 2hp spindle motor at 380v, does it sound about the correct value? and if its wrong, what will happen?
02:52 PM {HD}: Yea I was just going to guess that one since it appears to be the only one amazon sells.
02:52 PM Centreline: 380v 3-phase I should add...
02:52 PM roycroft: i really like the caliper
02:53 PM roycroft: it's the one i use most often these days
02:53 PM roycroft: even though i have several distributed around the shop, that one i store in my machinist's tool chest, and pull out whever i'm doing something that requires frequent use of a caliper
02:54 PM Tom_L: Centreline, sounds like it should be ok
02:54 PM roycroft: and when i bought it folks here gave me a hard time - the general opinion is that i should get a 6" instead of a 4"
02:54 PM roycroft: but i knew that most of the measurements i do are 4" or less
02:54 PM Tom_L: my 1.2kw recomended a 100 ohm 100w
02:54 PM roycroft: and i like the more compact size
02:54 PM roycroft: i do not regret getting it at all
02:55 PM Tom_L: Centreline, and if it's wrong, it will burn it up
02:55 PM roycroft: and when i get another one, which i'd like to do when i have a chance, i'll probably get an 8"
02:55 PM Centreline: just the resistor?
02:55 PM roycroft: because i'll know i won't be carrying it around with me much
02:55 PM Centreline: Im guessing when it trys to brake the spindle and cant dissipate the heat..
02:56 PM Tom_L: we can't predict our failures now can we?
02:56 PM Tom_L: it would be the weak link though
02:56 PM Tom_L: put a good heatsink on it
02:56 PM roycroft: i've not had this happen to me, but the dire warnings i've read suggest that if the braking resistor cannot handle the current it may burn up, and the vfd won't be able to dump current to it
02:57 PM roycroft: and that will damage the vfd
02:57 PM Centreline: I can run the vfd without braking resistors, but I'm adding one because its supposed to help with spindle control
02:57 PM roycroft: sure
02:57 PM Centreline: I have it bedded onto the machine base casting as a heatsink.
02:58 PM roycroft: but if you configure the vfd to use a braking resistor and a braking resistor is not present, you'll blow up the vfd
02:58 PM Tom_L: Centreline, see how hot it gets?
02:58 PM Centreline: the manual doesnt exactly have good coverage on the braking resistor section, just a mention that two terminals are where it connects
02:59 PM Tom_L: 2hp is ~1500w
03:00 PM Tom_L: within the specs of my vfd and it recomends a 100/100w
03:00 PM Centreline: I'm adding a encoder to the main spindle too, I finally bit the bullet and worked a way to get the head off without cutting out the concrete roof (tipped the whole mill over to remove the top cover...)
03:00 PM Tom_L: 600w should be fine
03:00 PM roycroft: is this perchance a huang-yang vfd?
03:01 PM Centreline: no its a schnieder altivar18, its donkeys years old though
03:01 PM Tom_L: who-flung-dung
03:01 PM roycroft: ok
03:01 PM roycroft: i only ask because huan-yang are very very popular
03:01 PM {HD}: roycroft: 4” would cover 90% of my caliper measurements.
03:01 PM roycroft: because they're cheap
03:01 PM roycroft: exactly, {hd}
03:01 PM roycroft: and the huang-yang work fine
03:01 PM Centreline: Ive ran this vfd on 3 machines so far, so its been working a while...
03:01 PM roycroft: except their documentation always documents the braking resistor
03:01 PM Tom_L: lcnc supports a few h-y vfds
03:02 PM roycroft: but the cheap ones you find on ebay are usualy missing the braking resistor circuitry
03:02 PM roycroft: you have to actually open it up and see if that circuitry is present if you want to use a braking resistor with them
03:02 PM roycroft: the resistor lugs are there
03:02 PM roycroft: the manual documents them
03:02 PM roycroft: you can program it to use one
03:02 PM roycroft: but if you wire one up
03:02 PM roycroft: you'll find it does not work
03:03 PM roycroft: there are huang-yang vfds that do have the circuitry, but most do not
03:03 PM roycroft: ask me how i know :)
03:03 PM Centreline: the manual says "brake resistor if required" and schneider aren't exactly a far eastern brand
03:04 PM roycroft: the schneider likely has the circuitry
03:05 PM roycroft: i haven't gotten into decent quality vfds yet
03:05 PM roycroft: i buy the cheap ones and have a spare on hand
03:05 PM roycroft: i'll eventually replace the cheap ones with better ones, as they fail
03:05 PM roycroft: but to date i've not had one fail
03:05 PM roycroft: so maybe i won't ever replace them
03:06 PM roycroft: i do want a vfd for the lathe though
03:06 PM roycroft: and i might get a good one for that
03:06 PM roycroft: i like my lathe, but i do not like the belt drive system
03:06 PM roycroft: it's quieter than a gearbox, for sure, but it's not fun changing speeds
03:07 PM roycroft: a 2hp 3 phase motor and a vfd would be a huge upgrade
03:07 PM roycroft: and it would still run quiet
03:09 PM Eric__: a real huanyang vfd has a module and so you need to order the braking version from the factory
03:09 PM Eric__: almost all the ebay vfd are fakes
03:09 PM Centreline: I put a different vfd on my lathe, but I had issues with it cogging at slow speeds and one day I just got so fed up with working on it trying to program the vfd I put a reversing tumbler back on instead
03:10 PM roycroft: so the ones on ebay with the module may be genuine?
03:10 PM Eric__: possibly, unless the fakers have copied that design
03:10 PM roycroft: i really don't care if mine are "genuine" or not
03:10 PM roycroft: other than my not wanting to support piracy
03:10 PM roycroft: i only care if they work reliably over time
03:10 PM Eric__: but the module either contains the braking circuit or they don't, cant add
03:10 PM roycroft: and so far they have
03:11 PM roycroft: actually, some folks have added it
03:11 PM roycroft: not as a module
03:11 PM Eric__: I have a fake, bought it before I realized there was a difference
03:11 PM roycroft: but teh google can point you to instructions on how to build the braking circuitry where it's missing
03:11 PM Centreline: hmmm attaching the resistor there is a jumper between one terminal of the resistor terminals and a adjacent one, and the manual doesnt mention what to do with it...
03:11 PM roycroft: i thought i wanted it for my belt grinder
03:11 PM Eric__: yeah, I studied doing that, might be nice on the lathe
03:12 PM roycroft: and i was kind of bummed when i found out that none of mine had the circuitry
03:12 PM roycroft: but once i built the grinder i found that it stopped fast enough without it
03:12 PM roycroft: not instant stop
03:12 PM Eric__: my lathe takes forever to stop
03:12 PM roycroft: but that's ok
03:12 PM Eric__: lots of flywheel in the gearbox
03:12 PM roycroft: i just didn't want it to keep spinning for 5 minutes after i turn it off
03:13 PM roycroft: yeah
03:13 PM roycroft: and the belt grinder has virtually no flywheel
03:13 PM roycroft: it stops in <15 seconds
03:13 PM roycroft: i can live with that
03:13 PM roycroft: i tweaked the vfd to stop faster
03:13 PM Eric__: that's not bad. I can live with the lathe, but I would rather not
03:13 PM roycroft: the vfd can absorb a little current
03:13 PM roycroft: yeah, for the lathe i'd like to have instant stop
03:14 PM Centreline: my lathe has a clutch with a mechanical braking facility, so I only wanted the vfd to give more top speed...
03:14 PM roycroft: and that's one reason i'm thinking of getting a higher quality vfd for it
03:14 PM Eric__: I'm afraid to go faster with my lathe. Although it's only 1500 rpm
03:14 PM Eric__: just seems really fast
03:15 PM Centreline: lol I have 750rpm at the moment, and the fastest I went with the vfd was 1200rpm, and that felt too much :D
03:15 PM Centreline: its a harrison, they did a 1500rpm version but it has extra support bearings outboard of the clutch, so...
03:16 PM roycroft: i'd actually like mine to go slower
03:16 PM roycroft: its range is 60-1240rpm
03:16 PM roycroft: 40rpm would be useful at times
03:16 PM Centreline: probably I'll get a old cnc and retrofit it instead of modifying that again
03:17 PM Centreline: I have 31rpm in 1st low
03:17 PM roycroft: my lathe is 12x36
03:17 PM roycroft: if it were bigger it would have slower speeds
03:17 PM Tom_L: 30 rpm would be handy when cutting a 3tpi thread for sure
03:17 PM Centreline: it is what it is, a nice old gapbed lathe, Ive learned to just appreciate it for that after taking the vfd off
03:18 PM roycroft: but it is the perfect size for my needs
03:18 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/thread1.jpg
03:18 PM Tom_L: 1.5" 3 tpi
03:19 PM Centreline: I have a friend with a lathe with a 14ft bed, and I lust after it, but then I think "what do I actually need a monstrosity like that for" and the answer is very little
03:19 PM Tom_L: my friend has an old southbend
03:19 PM Centreline: and I can go use his on the once in a lifetime job :p
03:19 PM Tom_L: he just happened to have the right gear for that
03:19 PM Tom_L: he'd never used it :)
03:20 PM Eric__: the annoying thing for me is that huanyang has a store on amazon but won't list the braking module version
03:20 PM Tom_L: call em up for a chat?
03:20 PM roycroft: thread cutting is the main time i wish for slower speeds
03:20 PM Tom_L: :)
03:20 PM Centreline: I put a norton leadscrew box on the harrison, and with all the changegears I had already, I have a spreadsheet to calculate gear ratios :D
03:22 PM Centreline: ok Ive left the jumper on the terminal, big red switch time...
03:22 PM * Tom_L stands behind Centreline
03:23 PM * JavaBean dives into his bunker
03:23 PM Eric__: the main difference is u.s. stock vs. import from China
03:23 PM Centreline: well thats less than opitmal... it just took the breaker out
03:23 PM Centreline: taking the resistor off,and praying for my vfd...
03:26 PM Centreline: well without the resistor it didnt take the breaker out and the vfd has a display, I'm guessing that means that jumper shouldnt have stayed
03:27 PM Centreline: spindle still goes round and resistor still measures 120ohm, so guess I need to buy a lottery ticket :)
03:28 PM Centreline: I'm guessing you remove that jumper when fitting a braking resistor, but I'll try to find out more before trying I think...
03:28 PM Tom_L: the resistor wasn't unreasonable for that size motor
03:28 PM Deejay: gn8
03:29 PM Centreline: no, I had done some rough calculations also, I'm guessing that link is the culprit. Its shown here between PA and P0 https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/26041/altivar2_2020-09-29.png
03:31 PM Centreline: think I'll park the braking resistor until I know its obligatory...
03:33 PM Tom_L: mine says use P & B2 when using a brake resistor and when not using one short B1 & B2
03:33 PM Tom_L: different vfd
03:35 PM Tom_L: so you know at least one combination not to use
03:42 PM Centreline: yup, I'll get the encoder mounted first though, I got some amt102 encoders from someone who had used them in a robot
03:42 PM Centreline: and if I sawzall 1/4" off my spindle top, and cut the cap down, I have enough clearance to get it in :)
03:42 PM Centreline: in situ. Hold my beer :)
03:43 PM * JavaBean hands out popcorn
03:53 PM Centreline: done, cleaned the burr up with dremel and looks ok, poor bridgeport interact...
03:54 PM Centreline: not the alloy cap yet, I'll mill that to size in the manual mill...
03:55 PM Centreline: I need a bigger shop it seems...
03:56 PM Tom_L: that problem will never go away ya know
03:58 PM andypugh: The first web server I used cost £20,000 (in 1995 money)
03:58 PM Centreline: yep I have the money put away to floor the barn to expand but with covid its not happening...
03:58 PM andypugh: Today I have been playing with one that costs £6. An ESP32.
03:58 PM {HD}: They have no battery digital mitutoyos
03:59 PM andypugh: I am writing a central heating controller for my mums house.
03:59 PM andypugh: You can play with it if you want :-) http://86.24.85.28:5481
03:59 PM Centreline: I did that once with ds1820's in a serial network
04:00 PM Centreline: the controlling computer just polled a 1820 in each zone and switched pins on a parport relay to control underfloor heating solenoids
04:01 PM andypugh: I am trying to come up with something that my aged mother could use.
04:02 PM Centreline: yep, I put a web interface on it, because my wife wanted something her mum could alter too
04:02 PM andypugh: The normal controllers are too unintuitive. The last time we tried to turn the heating on over the phone it too 10 minutes for her to spot some of the buttons “Oh, I thought they were just bits of fancy on the case”
04:03 PM Centreline: its still working 18 years later, though now I dont expose it to the internet because I'm too paranoid
04:03 PM Centreline: this place I use home-assistant as a bridge device between the simple HA gear and the internet...
04:05 PM Centreline: wood furnace is controlled by a sbc and home-assistant talks to all the different devices, its simple and robust, and gives a nice web interface
04:06 PM Centreline: and it has a self hosting app you can bookmark to use on a smartphone...
04:08 PM Centreline: and it has many eyes, and is well tested/patched fast if issues come up... *paranoia*
04:15 PM andypugh: Tomorrow I hope to get some actual hardware attached to the system. At the moment the temperatures are fiction.
04:24 PM Eric__: andypugh, do you have a limit switch/ estop circuit posted online somewhere?
04:24 PM andypugh: No, sorry.
04:26 PM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/47-hal-examples/25861-external-e-stop
04:44 PM Centreline: well I'm getting the hint that I need to call it a night, later all
04:52 PM andypugh: Tom_L: if you are tom_itx playing with my controller, try crashing it by editing the URLs. It was trivially easy to crash it by asking for an out-of-range heating zone.
04:52 PM andypugh: ( ihave all the web logs scrolling past)
04:53 PM roycroft: boy, my bench top is really soaking up the finish
04:54 PM roycroft: i sanded the rest of the bench to p320, but the top only to p80
04:54 PM roycroft: one does not want a woodworking bench top to be slippery
04:54 PM roycroft: but keeping it coarse like that is causing it to soak up 2-3x as much finish as the rest of the bench
04:55 PM Tom_L: andypugh, i am Tom_itx but not online currently with that nick
04:56 PM andypugh: Odd.
04:56 PM Tom_L: very
04:56 PM ve7it: hey andy... might have been me clicking buttoms... wondered if I could set upstairs temp to 60 degrees
04:57 PM andypugh: You should be able to set ot to 128 degres
04:57 PM andypugh: Or, at least 125
04:57 PM andypugh: (edit the URL if button clicking takes too long)
04:57 PM ve7it: going up at 0.5 degree was painful... gave up around 33c
04:59 PM ve7it: I liked the clocks for setting time dependant temps
04:59 PM Tom_L: andypugh, what sensors are you using?
05:00 PM Tom_L: at one point i had LM75 online
05:01 PM andypugh: probably DS19B20
05:01 PM Tom_L: used a parport into the server
05:36 PM roycroft: well, i just got a robocall from a republican
05:36 PM roycroft: i guess they're not done yet - the political robocalls have fallen off
05:36 PM roycroft: we were back to extended car warranty scams and marriott hotel scams
05:37 PM roycroft: but i just got a call to vote for a republican for congress in a different district
05:37 PM roycroft: i'm not sure how that's supposed to work
05:38 PM roycroft: i also just got my rack cart pulled out for the linuxcnc gear
05:38 PM roycroft: i think it needs to be sandblasted before i can paint it
05:39 PM * roycroft thinks he has some sharp sand in the welding shop
05:39 PM roycroft: i have not used my stand-alone media blaster in years though - i hope it still works
05:39 PM roycroft: meaning i hope the hoses are not cracked
05:39 PM roycroft: i hope i can even find the bloody thing
05:40 PM roycroft: i think i know which outbuilding it's in
05:40 PM JavaBean: make sure there are nobody living in that
05:42 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sure all my outbuildings are occupied, except the welding shop
05:42 PM roycroft: when i need to get into one i just make a lot of noise as i'm approaching, unlock and open the door, and then go do something else for a few minutes
05:43 PM roycroft: i usually hear critters scurrying about
05:43 PM JavaBean: its not the critters you hear that you should fear... its the little bity ones that you can't
05:45 PM roycroft: i fear none of them
05:45 PM roycroft: but i assume they fear me
05:45 PM roycroft: that's why i give them an opportunity to leave before i enter
05:47 PM roycroft: i do need to figure out a new paint booth setup
05:47 PM roycroft: i have a side tent for my vw bus
05:48 PM roycroft: it has a nice external frame
05:48 PM roycroft: years ago i made a paint booth out of 6 mil plastic that hangs from that frame
05:48 PM roycroft: i'd move all the machines in my garage to one side, and have just enough room to set it up there
05:49 PM roycroft: but that won't work any more - there's not enough room with my newish router table and my new workbench
05:49 PM roycroft: it's too late in the year to even think about setting it up outside
05:51 PM JavaBean: bah, a coat of paint freezing never hurt anything
05:51 PM roycroft: there might be enough room to set it up in my welding shop, now that i've sold some of the machines that lived out there
05:51 PM roycroft: it's actually fairly roomy there, relative to my wood shop
05:52 PM roycroft: it's where i prefer to paint anyway
05:59 PM roycroft: the legs on this cart are chrome plated, and have little pock marks
05:59 PM roycroft: i'm not going to get them rechromed
05:59 PM roycroft: i'll have to figure out some other way to clean them up and make them look nice
05:59 PM JavaBean: how did it get "pockmarked"?
06:00 PM roycroft: age
06:00 PM roycroft: and the cart was probably stored in a non-climate controlled warehouse for a while before i got it
06:00 PM roycroft: it's from a 1970s ibm mainframe computer
06:00 PM roycroft: so it's kind of old
06:01 PM JavaBean: meh, people pay good money for machinist equiptment that is older
06:01 PM roycroft: i'll take some pics when i get it painted up
06:01 PM roycroft: it's absolutely perfect for a cnc controller/computer
06:01 PM roycroft: when i saw it at the surplus store i knew that is what it was made for
06:02 PM {HD}: Why are mitutoyas so frequently faked?
06:02 PM roycroft: because they're popular
06:02 PM JavaBean: "plastidip"/"rhino lining" for anti shorting?? roy
06:02 PM roycroft: and because people don't know any better
06:03 PM roycroft: i think i'll go find my media blasting tank and figure out the paint booth situation
06:04 PM roycroft: i'd like to shoot paint on that cart soon, so it has plenty of cure time before i start installing equipment in it
06:04 PM JavaBean: what kind of paint you going to hit it with?
06:05 PM JavaBean: s/paint/coating
06:26 PM roycroft: well the blaster was right where i thought it was
06:26 PM roycroft: and one of the hoses was rusted out, as i thought might be the case
06:26 PM roycroft: i use an industrial enamel, javabean
06:30 PM JavaBean: is it non-conductive?
06:31 PM Eric__: CaptHindsight did you get a discord invite for hazzy?
06:31 PM roycroft: the paint?
06:32 PM roycroft: i'm not sure, but i always scrape the paint away to bare metal when i install the ground lug on a rack
06:32 PM JavaBean: yes, roy... i would be interested to know more, if it were non-conductive
06:33 PM JavaBean: up to, say, 240vac
06:33 PM roycroft: i really don't know
06:33 PM roycroft: and it doesn't matter to me
06:33 PM roycroft: as i said, i always go down to bare metal when i ground a rack
06:34 PM roycroft: and i haven't figured out yet what i'll ground the rack to
06:35 PM roycroft: since it's a roll-around rack, i'll have to ground it to the mains ground somewhere
06:35 PM JavaBean: i would be installing 120vac inside of the enclosure... the closer i could get said pcbs to the paint/rack/housing the better
06:35 PM roycroft: i've decided to power the computer seprarately from the controller and motor power supply
06:36 PM roycroft: so i'll be installing a power strip for everything
06:36 PM XXCoder: for cnc mill?
06:36 PM roycroft: i'll probably ground the rack to that, because the power strip will be grounded all the time when there is power to the rack
06:36 PM roycroft: yes
06:37 PM XXCoder: cool
06:37 PM roycroft: i have a 19" roll-around half-height rack from an old ibm mainframe computer that i'll be using for the mill cnc electronics
06:37 PM roycroft: the top of the rack is the perfect height for me to mount a console
06:38 PM roycroft: and it has 12ru of space for the components
06:38 PM roycroft: there's a door in the back that swings down, and has an opening at the top where i can feed all the cables
06:38 PM roycroft: it really does seem like it was designed for a cnc controller
06:38 PM roycroft: i'm not sure what part of the mainframe it was for
06:38 PM JavaBean: really does sound awesome, you going to post build pics?? or just after-built pics
06:39 PM roycroft: it's not deep enough for a tape drive
06:39 PM roycroft: maybe some build pics
06:39 PM roycroft: i'm not real good at taking build pics
06:39 PM roycroft: but i'll try
06:39 PM roycroft: i'll take a picture of the rack before i blast the paint off of it
06:40 PM JavaBean: full build log?? or just pics showing your wire management
06:40 PM roycroft: i'll document as best as happens :)
06:40 PM JavaBean: sweet, always looking for ideas that maybe someday i could use!
06:41 PM roycroft: there are a lot of things that get tricky when designing control systems like this
06:41 PM roycroft: just one example, that i'm dealing with right now
06:41 PM roycroft: i'm going to have multiple power buses in the controller cabinet
06:41 PM roycroft: 120vac, +5vdc, +24vdc, +48vdc
06:42 PM JavaBean: same home breaker?
06:42 PM roycroft: i'd like to have indicators on the front panel that show the status of each
06:42 PM roycroft: fine
06:42 PM roycroft: i can get indicators that are all the same size for all those voltages
06:42 PM roycroft: and that even look pretty much alike
06:43 PM roycroft: but getting them all with the same lumen output is proving difficult
06:43 PM JavaBean: ocd?
06:43 PM roycroft: because very few indicators stipulate the lumen output
06:43 PM roycroft: i suppose
06:43 PM roycroft: but if i'm going to have a row of indicators i'd like them all to match
06:44 PM roycroft: if that's a sign of ocd then i have ocd
06:44 PM roycroft: :)
06:44 PM roycroft: i think of it as a sign of pride in workmanship
06:45 PM * JavaBean tries to hand roy one of the rabbit bones he has kept in his beard
06:46 PM roycroft: attention to detail is important when designing control sysems
06:46 PM roycroft: systems
06:46 PM roycroft: anyway, i'm headed off to market for a bit
06:46 PM JavaBean: yes it is. what kind of indicator are you talking?? one that shows actual voltage? or one that shows that said voltage is on?
06:47 PM roycroft: no, just a green light to show that there's power
06:47 PM roycroft: i don't think i need more
06:47 PM JavaBean: gotcha, makes sense and is nice and easy
06:48 PM JavaBean: good luck at market
06:48 PM roycroft: folks are pretty much masked these days
06:48 PM roycroft: it's not too scary any more
06:48 PM JavaBean: no no, good luck getting what you set out for... even with a list in my hand i can't always get what is on it
07:29 PM roycroft: i don't think i can find replacement abrasive hose for my sandblaster locally
07:29 PM roycroft: i'll have to order it
07:29 PM roycroft: so i guess i'm going to red green the thing tomorrow to get me by until the replacement arrives
07:34 PM XXCoder: lol
07:35 PM JavaBean: lol, you know red green wasn't the only peeps that used cloth tape!
07:36 PM JavaBean: also, welcome back roy... i trust your trip was successful
07:37 PM roycroft: there be food for dinner
07:37 PM roycroft: and i'm not dead yet
07:38 PM roycroft: so it's a success!
07:38 PM JavaBean: food is good to have, being dead sucks... i don't recommend it
07:39 PM roycroft: i probably won't mind when i'm dead
07:39 PM roycroft: i think i won't be aware that i'm dead
07:39 PM roycroft: but it's not something i'm looking forward to
07:41 PM JavaBean: good to hear... one sucky part will be that we can't hear about how someones chickens are doing anymore
07:41 PM roycroft: is it an australian thing to say north-east-east, or is that just a dave stanton thing?
07:41 PM roycroft: he keeps saying it
07:41 PM roycroft: it's east-northeast in north america
07:42 PM JavaBean: i can't say i have ever heard someone say north east east
07:43 PM roycroft: it sounds clunky
07:43 PM roycroft: east northeast flows a lot better from the tongue
07:45 PM JavaBean: considering how lawyers talk... "flows a lot better from the tongue" isn't that important to many people
07:45 PM roycroft: it is to me
07:45 PM roycroft: but i'm well aware that i'm not a "normal" person
07:46 PM JavaBean: good... Normal People kinda scare me. they seem like the Borg to me
07:58 PM roycroft: you know
07:58 PM roycroft: there are two plot themes that i really dislike about st:tng
07:58 PM roycroft: the first is q
07:58 PM roycroft: the second is the borg
07:58 PM roycroft: the other day i watched the episode where q intoduced the enterprise to the borg
07:59 PM roycroft: that was horrible
07:59 PM andypugh: One 16th north of north-east is north-northeast. One 16th east is east northeast.
07:59 PM roycroft: so the brits say it right
07:59 PM roycroft: it's either the aussies in general who are wrong
07:59 PM roycroft: or dave stanton is wrong
07:59 PM andypugh: One 32nd north of north-east is northeast by north, and one 32nd east is northerast by east.
08:00 PM roycroft: and i don't come from the point of view that the us dialect is the correct one
08:00 PM andypugh: So, northeast east is sort-of wrong, as the “by” is what makes it clear that you are in 32nds.
08:00 PM roycroft: we say a lot of things wrong here
08:00 PM roycroft: he wasn't even saying northeast east
08:00 PM roycroft: he was saying "north (stop) east (stop) east(stop)
08:01 PM roycroft: "
08:01 PM roycroft: fortunately he's finally moved on
08:01 PM roycroft: but yes
08:01 PM andypugh: Then there is the option of saying “northeast by east, a quarter east” to get into 128th: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points_of_the_compass#Half-_and_quarter-points
08:02 PM roycroft: nort, south, east, and west are the cardinal directions
08:02 PM andypugh: But by that point you might as well use degrees.
08:02 PM roycroft: northeast, southeast, southwest, and northwest are the secondary directions
08:03 PM roycroft: and north, south, east, and west are modifiers for the diretions in between the cardinal and secondary ones
08:03 PM roycroft: that makes perfect sense
08:03 PM roycroft: north.east.east is just silly
08:04 PM andypugh: North east by east is halfeay between northeast and east northeast
08:05 PM roycroft: yes, if one wants to be that precise without actualy being precise :)
08:05 PM roycroft: that's at the point where degrees make more sense
08:06 PM roycroft: i'll have to go find some australian weather forecasts and the like to see if they really bugger things up that badly, or if it's just dave
08:06 PM andypugh: That web page is quite interesting, as the traditional mediteranean wind directions are based on where the wind is from (Greece, the Levant…). Which seems non-obvious as you might expect it to be where the wind would take you to.
08:08 PM roycroft: we designate the origin of the wind here when we talk abou t wind direction
08:08 PM roycroft: our prevailing winds are westerly here on the oregon coast, meaning the come from the west
08:09 PM roycroft: greece is closer to where i live from the east than from the west
08:12 PM andypugh: Yes, I know that winds are traditiionally named for where they come from. I am saying that that seems a little illogical for sailors.
08:13 PM andypugh: It makes sense for weather forecasting.
08:14 PM roycroft: and the weather forecast in anglican chant:
08:14 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z2jwDcb9wI
08:15 PM roycroft: i had an lp of the master singers when i was a lad
08:15 PM roycroft: their "big hit" was the highway code
08:16 PM roycroft: but i remember the weather forecast song as well
08:18 PM roycroft: well if sailors are referencing greece i should think they'd be more concerned with sirens than winds
08:20 PM andypugh: If you are going to chant a forecast, it should be the Shipping Forecast, which is a thng on UK radio that very few sailors rely on any more, but has become such a tradition that any time they taok of stopping it there are huge protests from lirerally dozens of listeners.
08:20 PM andypugh: And, it turns out, the same singers did that, It is inherently poetic: https://youtu.be/H7GOMK50zbg?t=62
08:22 PM andypugh: Sorry. Listening further, they didn’t
08:22 PM andypugh: Nah!
08:23 PM andypugh: `this is the real shipping forecast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxHa5KaMBcM
08:26 PM roycroft: but they're doing anglican chant
08:26 PM roycroft: so drink enough sherry, and it will be real
08:27 PM andypugh: My point is that a chant of the shipping forecast would be exellent.
08:28 PM roycroft: yes, it would be
08:28 PM roycroft: and it would be easy to do
08:28 PM roycroft: gregorian/anglican chant is designed for such things
08:30 PM roycroft: i think i can say without prejudice, even though i was raised episcopalian/anglican, i much prefer anglican chant to gregorian
08:30 PM roycroft: i like the harmony
09:23 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3KAqt5PLLE