#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 22 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:02 AM XXCoder: thanks
12:24 AM snakedGT is now known as snaked
01:10 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
01:11 AM XXCoder: yo
01:31 AM Deejay: moin
04:48 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:48 AM XXCoder: yo
06:04 AM Tom_L: morning
06:06 AM XXCoder: yo
09:00 AM ziper: would 400 be too much? https://bidera.hibid.com/lot/74918101/techno-isel-stepper-cnc-router/?ipp=10&q=&ref=catalog
10:14 AM Rab: ziper, Techno Isel make good stuff AFAIK. I think $400 would be a bargain. This seems to be a spec sheet for that platform: http://www.techno-isel.com/education1/H870/PDF/H870P087.pdf
01:34 PM Tom_L: timing belts, is it better to have one pulley with a flange and the other without or flange both?
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: flange on both keeps the the belt from walking off
01:39 PM Tom_L: i'm a bit concerned if i have room for flanged on one side
01:39 PM Tom_L: trying to go as wide a belt as i can
01:40 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc6.jpg
01:41 PM Tom_L: that's 9mm and i wanna try to use 15 but i still need that small pulley
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.brecoflex.com/products/pulleys/design-guidelines/flange-recommendations/
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.linearmotiontips.com/when-do-synchronous-belts-need-flanged-pulleys/
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: "When the span (center distance between shafts) is eight times or more the diameter of the smaller pulley, both pulleys should have flanges."
01:42 PM Tom_L: it is less
01:42 PM Tom_L: but i don't know what the exact center distance is yet
01:43 PM Tom_L: i may get both and see what fits best
01:43 PM Tom_L: i can cut a recess in the pulley bottom and gain a little clearance
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: obviously you want everything square and parallel
01:46 PM Tom_L: well yeah
01:46 PM Tom_L: i could get by with 9mm and be ok but i'd rather use 15mm width
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: but belt wear changes the tension
01:47 PM Tom_L: yeah
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: and they start to walk
01:47 PM Tom_L: i haven't had any trouble with that on these
01:49 PM jymmmm: LOOK!!!! I invented infinity power... http://imgur.com/a/X5SIDa2
01:51 PM jymmmm: Ok, maybe it's just a clamp on amp meter adapter
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: I had a small belt start walking the pulley. Had to use locker on the stepper shaft
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: 8mm shafts, nema23 size arrangements
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: gets worse after removing them, the small pulleys tend to get warped pretty easily
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: the flanges anyway
01:58 PM Tom_L: these are 9/16 and 14mm
02:02 PM roycroft: when i install an e-stop button on my control panel, is that something that is normally connected to the bob, and signals linuxcnc to do whatever i tell it to do when it senses the i've pushed the e-stop button?
02:03 PM roycroft: in which case, a separate e-stop button on my control panel that will kill the power to everything would be a good idea
02:03 PM roycroft: or maybe everything except the linuxcnc computer
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: yes
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: pressing it should bring the system to a quick safe stop
02:07 PM roycroft: using linuxcnc
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: motor drivers will also have an e-stop input
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: except for the small stuff
02:08 PM roycroft: my gecko drives (i'm looking a drive, but don't have the manual opened up) has a "disable" terminal
02:08 PM roycroft: is that likely the e-stop input on the driver?
02:09 PM roycroft: that doesn't matter right now
02:09 PM roycroft: configuration details can wait
02:09 PM roycroft: i'm still sorting out my main power bus
02:09 PM roycroft: and thinking at this point that one power source for everything may not be the best idea
02:09 PM roycroft: i'll power the controller stuff and the motor power supply from the controller
02:10 PM roycroft: and the linuxcnc computer will be powered separately
02:10 PM Tom_L: roycroft, so far i've got mine wired to the enables on my steppers and once i get the spindle motor also to it's enable
02:10 PM Tom_L: i don't want to kill all power to the control electronics though
02:11 PM Tom_L: i did get a contactor in case i change my mind though
02:11 PM roycroft: i'm assuming that in most cases where i feel the need to mash an e-stop button it would be the one on the control panel, so that i can do a "graceful" stop
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: e-stop should not rely on LCNC to stop anything
02:11 PM roycroft: but if a power supply catches on fire or something i'll still have a kill all power e-stop
02:11 PM Tom_L: that's why i got the contactor
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC should be aware fo the e-stop state, but not rely on LCNC for stopping anything
02:12 PM roycroft: so in my case, the control panel e-stop would kill power to the drives, but leave the bob powered?
02:13 PM roycroft: and the control panel e-stop would kill all power to the control panel
02:13 PM roycroft: i've seen wiring diagrams for cnc systems that do it in different ways
02:14 PM roycroft: and i sense that many folks who design them and publish their work don't really know what they're doing
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: PC can freeze at the same time you need e-stop, so it should be "out of band" with the PC
02:14 PM roycroft: after all the years i've been on this channel i have a pretty good idea whose advise i can trust here :)
02:14 PM roycroft: yes, but i'm talking about two different e-stop buttons
02:14 PM roycroft: i want the kill everything one on the controller
02:15 PM roycroft: so i won't have to trust the computer if the situation is dire
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: people likely skimp on small machines
02:15 PM roycroft: would a control panel one that doesn't kill as much stuff be useful?
02:15 PM roycroft: i could replicate the controller one, sure
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: your 10 x 20cm router will likely not kill you if it runs wild
02:16 PM roycroft: so that mashing either would have the exact same effect
02:16 PM roycroft: i'm not meaning to be judgemental of others who may not really know what they're doing (or care)
02:16 PM roycroft: i hope i did not sound that way
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: machines have both, e-stop and a power disconnect
02:16 PM roycroft: and yes, i get that on smaller machines the consequences are not as severe
02:17 PM roycroft: i guess that's what i'm talking bout
02:17 PM roycroft: about
02:17 PM roycroft: a power disconnect on the control panel
02:17 PM roycroft: that happens to be a mushroom switch
02:17 PM roycroft: er, on the controller
02:17 PM roycroft: and an e-stop on the control panel that does not kill all the power but does stop the motors
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: the geneus that wired my matsuura made it so that the spindle turns on when the PC dies
02:18 PM roycroft: i'm going to control my spindle manually at first
02:18 PM roycroft: but i'll probably add a vfd and a 3-phase motor later on
02:18 PM roycroft: or figure out how to get linuxcnc to talk to the existing motor controller
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: he forgot to think about what happens if the PC gets disconnected or freezes
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: when I first turned it on the PC was off and when i turned on the hydraulic pump the spindle took off
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: very exciting
02:19 PM roycroft: i have this obsession, i suppose, with making sure that if the power goes off a machine does not start up when power is restored
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: yes, e-stop should latch and stay that way until to disable it
02:20 PM roycroft: and i don't care if it's a tiny machine or a huge machine
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: a machine should always come up from no power in e-stop state
02:20 PM roycroft: i just don't like the idea of a machine starting up on its own, ever
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: lots of discussion on the forums
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: on how any why
02:21 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Use a safety relay in your eStop chain
02:22 PM buzzmarshall: i would agree no machine should run without being made to run... power on / or reset should always set a lockout condition
02:22 PM buzzmarshall: thats usually why up here in CA that cat 2 or 4 demand that
02:22 PM jymmmm: Would worn brushes on a generator cause less power?
02:22 PM roycroft: i'll use a latching contactor in the controller cabinet to power everything under its purvue
02:23 PM roycroft: that's not my question at all
02:23 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: car generator?
02:23 PM Loetmichel: or what?
02:23 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: No, a 120/240 VAC geenerator
02:24 PM roycroft: and i think that what i'm hearing is that the e-stop button on the control panel needs to be connected directly to the controller to shut down the motors, as well as to linuxcnc so that knows that the button has been actuated
02:24 PM Loetmichel: anyways: if the field coil gets intermittend or to less current the voltage/power on the AC coils will lack, yes
02:24 PM roycroft: but i should not rely on linuxcnc to shut down the motors
02:24 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: and worn brushes can cause that?
02:25 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Did you see what I said the other day that a relay setup in a latching method has a flaw in it?
02:25 PM buzzmarshall: CaptHindsight... so i finally know now that you don't need xwindows running lcnc on a embedded device
02:25 PM roycroft: yes, i saw you say that
02:26 PM roycroft: but you did not explain the flaw
02:26 PM roycroft: or if you did, i did not see the explanation
02:26 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: no idea where you are but in germany its one step further: the Estop has to kill the power to the drivers. If not possible directly (for braking pourposes for example) it has to signal the drivers to brake and then after the brake delay kill the power.
02:26 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: worn brushes can cause intermittend contact, ye3s
02:26 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: thank you
02:26 PM roycroft: loetmichel: it doesn't matter where i am or what local regulations are
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: does it matter, x86 or not?
02:27 PM buzzmarshall: you can output straight to the framebuffer without xwindows
02:27 PM roycroft: what matters is that i'm doing it correctly :)
02:27 PM roycroft: but that's kind of what i'm getting from here right now
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: my next question already answered
02:27 PM buzzmarshall: hm... ive not tried yet with a x86/64 machine as i am building for the bbb
02:27 PM roycroft: the e-stop on the control panel should kill power to the drivers
02:27 PM buzzmarshall: but i cant see why a pc would be any different
02:27 PM roycroft: physically
02:27 PM Loetmichel: and at least "local regulations" here forbid to go thru any kind of "computer" with the Estop
02:27 PM jymmmm: roycroft: if the "start/on" button gets a short, it will remain in the latch position, and the "stop/off" button will not disengage the latching mode.
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: I figured framebuffer since I think we did that before for something
02:28 PM Loetmichel: it has always to be hardwired to the drivers/mains power contactor
02:28 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i've also got an estop button on the pendant which is usually closer to me than the mushroom one
02:28 PM roycroft: tom_l: when i make my pendant i'll replicate the control panel e-stop button, yes
02:28 PM Loetmichel: because a PC can "hang"
02:29 PM roycroft: jymmm: the way i wire them is the e-stop/powerof button is nc, and the start/on button/key is no
02:29 PM Tom_L: it's also latched
02:29 PM roycroft: i make the momentary contact to start
02:29 PM roycroft: it latches
02:29 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Just use a safety relay for your eStop chain, that's what it's meant for
02:29 PM roycroft: i press the e-stop button, the latching current is gone
02:29 PM roycroft: i wire them in series
02:29 PM Loetmichel: usually its made so that every Estop button on a machine is in series and has control voltage on the start of the series and the mains contactor coil on the other end of the series connection, roycroft
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: did you take a peek at the Orange Pi arisc driver?
02:29 PM buzzmarshall: CH...once i get the rest of the linux distro i am building done i will post it and the panel stuff i was messing around with on one of my githubs but it should work on a norma machine as well
02:29 PM roycroft: wait, no, i don't do that
02:30 PM Loetmichel: so that it completely kills the power to the whole machine
02:30 PM Tom_L: yeah i've got relays on the motor enables so power loss nothing works on restoration
02:30 PM roycroft: i wire the mains through the start button
02:30 PM buzzmarshall: i did a little bit but then got busy trying to build this distro and havent gone back yet to that
02:30 PM roycroft: and the latching circuit through the e-stop
02:30 PM Loetmichel: Usually the Computers and lighting is fed from a different circuit though
02:30 PM roycroft: so yeah, i can see that if the start button shorts i can't stop it
02:30 PM buzzmarshall: was gonna buy a OrangePI as well just waitin for the dude to get back to me
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: whenever we start back on ARM we run into video issues since need 4K
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: 4k is rock solid on AMD, on ARM not so much
02:31 PM roycroft: but if add another pole to the e-stop button i can kill the mains to on button feed as well as the latching circuit feed
02:32 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: start/stop buttons are wired in a way that the stop button kills the power to the start button as well
02:32 PM roycroft: right
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: and yeah we try better cables, the only "better" would be gold $1000 magic cables
02:32 PM roycroft: that's what i just said as you were typing that :)
02:32 PM Loetmichel: so even if the start button is welded the stop button (usually latching) will still work
02:32 PM buzzmarshall: CH... what linux are you running lcnc on?
02:32 PM roycroft: i just make the e-stop button 2 poles, not single pole
02:32 PM roycroft: very easy to do
02:33 PM roycroft: and actually i think i've done that before
02:33 PM roycroft: i'll have to go look at some stuff i've built
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: for testing and general play on Debian Buster or Sid, for something we have to support then Gentoo
02:37 PM roycroft: my brew system control panel e-stop is 2 poles, so i am doing that correctly
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: have tested armbian and raspian on the Rpi's but Gentoo is the most stable
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi-64bit
02:38 PM roycroft: that's the scariest piece of equipment i have, because it's 240vac 50a in the panel, and it lives in a sometimes wet environment
02:39 PM roycroft: it is plugged into a gfci-protected circuit
02:42 PM roycroft: i like the telemechanique 22mm actuators, because they are modular - i can stack poles on top of each other, and combine no and nc poles any way i want
02:43 PM buzzmarshall: sorry brain fart... ya i member you showing me that link before
02:43 PM buzzmarshall: lol
02:45 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/iso/
02:45 PM Tom_L: there's that if you wanna play with the rpi4 on buster
02:46 PM roycroft: so without getting into using limit switches as home switches or not, and ignoring home switches for now, should limit switches actuate an e-stop or is it ok for them to just signal linuxcnc to stop?
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: yes, we have
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: did some latency testing with that on the Rpi4
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: with all hardware rendering and accell off the jitter was down to ~50K with both servo and base thread
02:47 PM buzzmarshall: soon i will try this on a couple of rpi's here as well
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: down from ~70K with it all on
02:48 PM Tom_L: i borrowed some settings from skunkworks to try and got similar results
02:48 PM Tom_L: it was on the pre1 ver though
02:48 PM Tom_L: still buster...
02:48 PM roycroft: or maybe i should be considering home switches, as i would see them as "soft" limits that should only signal linuxcnc
02:48 PM roycroft: while it seems that a limit switch should be a power to the otors kill event
02:49 PM roycroft: a "hard" stop as it were
02:49 PM buzzmarshall: CH: i spent time in the kernel as i am using 5.7 but am still tweaking stuff and looking at the existing RT patch stuff
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: we had xenomai running with LCNC 6-7 years ago on the orange Pi One
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: also some cubieboard (alwinner 4-6 core)
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: 40K was the jitter with software rendering using leftover cores
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: going to the DMV today, I forget do you drink before or right after standing in line?
02:54 PM roycroft: our dmv offices are still closed
02:55 PM roycroft: people have been driving with expired tabs since march without penalty
02:55 PM roycroft: i have some tabs that expire the end of this month - i need to find the renewal form and order new ones online
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: I just try avoid any reason to get stopped by the local Stasi
02:56 PM roycroft: oh, and there it is - right on the top of my inbox
02:56 PM roycroft: i don't intend to drive with expired tabs
02:56 PM roycroft: i get too many driving while hippie stops as it is
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: heh, around here it's being out too late
02:57 PM buzzmarshall: lol
03:03 PM jymmmm: roycroft: If either button shorts, the circuit will remain energized... https://i.imgur.com/j9Vku.png
03:06 PM roycroft: renewal done
03:06 PM roycroft: tabs will arrive in the mail shortly :)
03:08 PM roycroft: jymmmm: in my configuration both would have to short, not either
03:08 PM roycroft: which, while possible, is quite unlikely
03:09 PM jymmmm: Short the START button, and the STOP will not work.
03:09 PM roycroft: not the way i am doing it
03:09 PM roycroft: the stop button is 2 poles
03:09 PM roycroft: both nc
03:10 PM roycroft: one pole is between the mains and the start button
03:10 PM roycroft: the other is for the latching circuit
03:10 PM roycroft: so when i push the stop button both poles open
03:13 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Sure, I get the added safety in using two poles, but what happens if the START button gets shorted in your design?
03:15 PM roycroft: it doesn't matter
03:16 PM roycroft: because the current flow is mains -> e-stop (nc) -> start button (no) -> relay control
03:16 PM roycroft: if the start button is shorted and is closed, when push the e-stop it opens the pole for the start circuit
03:17 PM roycroft: the other pole on the e-stop is relay load -> e-stop (nc) -> relay control, for the latching part
03:17 PM roycroft: i press e-stop and both poles open
03:18 PM roycroft: so there's no current to the relay control side
03:23 PM Deejay: gn8
04:18 PM _unreal_: so some interesting news. I kind of got the motors working well the test one anyways with the arduino
04:18 PM _unreal_: found out my wiring orientation was wrong so it was only stuttering BUT the motor contreoller IMO are not fully turning on and the green light is NOT turning on
04:18 PM _unreal_: BUT the motor are turning
04:19 PM _unreal_: also what is wierd is my arduino decided to do stupid stuff dont know why?
04:19 PM _unreal_: keeps loosing its settings for some reason
04:19 PM _unreal_: so I dont know if its computer side or arduino side
04:19 PM _unreal_: I'll have to try an other computer just to see
04:27 PM Tom_L: noise from the motors
04:28 PM Tom_L: pics were much worse about that
04:28 PM roycroft: is it just me or is it getting harder to find control circuitry components online?
04:28 PM Tom_L: like what?
04:29 PM roycroft: din bus terminal blocks
04:29 PM roycroft: non-latching single pole key switch
04:29 PM roycroft: just a couple things that used to pull up heaps of search engine results, and now are mostly unrelated crap
04:30 PM roycroft: i found the terminal blocks at mcmaster, but not by using a search engine
04:30 PM roycroft: and the only key switches i've found so far are in the uk
04:31 PM Tom_L: amazon has a few listed
04:31 PM Rab: roycroft, tried Allied? https://www.alliedelec.com/
04:31 PM Tom_L: mouser lists din rail terminal blocks
04:32 PM Tom_L: https://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Terminal-Blocks/DIN-Rail-Terminal-Blocks/_/N-7rqcb
04:32 PM roycroft: i found the key switches at mcmaster as well
04:32 PM Rab: They're my third choice after Mouser and Digi-Key, but they semi-specialize in controls and PLC stuff.
04:32 PM roycroft: and i get better results when searching on 125v instead of 120v
04:32 PM roycroft: i think search engines are getting dumber
04:33 PM roycroft: they used to do better fuzzy matching
04:35 PM _unreal_: key switch?
04:35 PM _unreal_: do you mean like door key key switch
04:35 PM roycroft: i mean a momentary contact actuator that uses a key instead of a lever or push button
04:36 PM _unreal_: I have some of those maybe not the kind your looking for but I have JUST that
04:36 PM Tom_L: no, a mag strip coded key
04:36 PM roycroft: https://www.mcmaster.com/7278K12/
04:36 PM roycroft: like that
04:37 PM _unreal_: the one's like that I have are not momentarry
04:37 PM _unreal_: I DO
04:37 PM roycroft: except not maintained
04:37 PM _unreal_: have some that are not KEY style but key like looking lever that have a start/run/off
04:38 PM _unreal_: start being momentary
04:38 PM roycroft: https://www.mcmaster.com/7188K34/
04:38 PM roycroft: so like that
04:38 PM roycroft: i'd rather have solder lugs than screw terminals though
04:39 PM Rab: Take out the screws and solder to the terminals?
04:39 PM roycroft: i might still have one or two of those from other projects
04:39 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
04:39 PM roycroft: i should take inventory before i spend a bunch of time chasing down pars
04:40 PM _unreal_: more like the switch at the bottom center, its a true off-stop, run, start switch https://smhttp-ssl-80937.nexcesscdn.net/media/catalog/product/cache/201732bee690b57748252f1ec0d34ac6/m/w/mwa-panel2-nowm_1.jpg
04:40 PM _unreal_: I have a few of them as mem serves
04:40 PM _unreal_: and I do have some of the key switches somewhere but they are not momentary, and 3 conductor as mem serves?
04:41 PM roycroft: i only need single pole, but multipole is not a disqualifier
04:41 PM roycroft: and yeah, i'm the only person who works in my shop
04:41 PM _unreal_: if your interested let me know, the key switches I have I have to find them. as I recall I think I have like 3 of them somehwer SOMEWHERE
04:41 PM roycroft: but i still like key switches for my machines
04:42 PM roycroft: so that elves cannot break in and start cnc'ing in my shop in the middle of the night
04:42 PM jymmmm: ignition switch replacement, circa 1960's
04:42 PM roycroft: that would be rated at 12vdc
04:42 PM Tom_L: one key fits all
04:42 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: exacly
04:42 PM _unreal_: hehe ya thats what I put on my cnc case for the one I'm goping to bring to work IF I can ever get the motor controllers working.
04:42 PM _unreal_: so agravating
04:43 PM _unreal_: dont go with ford they recycle there KEYS
04:43 PM _unreal_: hehe
04:43 PM roycroft: when i'm building from scratch i usually try to find exactly what i want before i start making compromises
04:43 PM roycroft: unless i'm under a real time crunch, which i'm not in this case
04:43 PM _unreal_: my 93 ford ranger key was able to open a 2006 ford as mem serves
04:44 PM roycroft: the ignition switch in my van is so worn i think a flat piece of metal would work
04:44 PM jymmmm: _unreal_: they ALL recycle the pinning, there are only so many bit combinations
04:44 PM roycroft: i can remove the key once i start the van
04:44 PM _unreal_: have you checked digikey?
04:44 PM roycroft: the door lock cylinders are still tight, though
04:44 PM roycroft: i'm finishing looking at mouser right now and am not impressed
04:44 PM roycroft: digi-key will be next
04:44 PM _unreal_: I got mine ether from digikey or amazon I forget
04:45 PM roycroft: there's very little of this stuff on ebay these days
04:45 PM roycroft: that may be due to the pandemic - everyone is hanging out in their shops making stuff
04:45 PM roycroft: and all the good stuff on ebay gets bought the instant it's listed
04:46 PM veegee: Is there some kind of a "swivel" connector for 120V AC power cords?
04:46 PM _unreal_: a lot of the EBAY/AMAZON shit comes from china
04:46 PM veegee: Something like an air swivel connector that I can attach to my power tools so I don't twist the cables
04:46 PM roycroft: digi-key have a good selection
04:47 PM _unreal_: I'm just glad I got my spindle after 5 months from china
04:47 PM roycroft: such things do exist, veegee, but i don't know where to find them offhand
04:47 PM _unreal_: and I got my rails FREE lol
04:47 PM veegee: Might be time to design and prototype my own then
04:47 PM _unreal_: veegee, likely but I've never seen/heard of one
04:48 PM _unreal_: veegee, power and rotory, and detachable dont mingle well
04:48 PM roycroft: yeah, i found exactly what i want at digi-key
04:48 PM veegee: doesn't have to be detachable
04:48 PM roycroft: i only have to buy 300 of them
04:48 PM roycroft: anyone want to go in on a group buy? :)
04:49 PM roycroft: my recollection is that those swivel cords are expensive and unreliable
04:49 PM _unreal_: veegee, your typical retractable power cord housing has a 120vac swivel
04:50 PM veegee: Yeah that's the kind of thing I'm talking about, but compact and something that can be soldered inline
04:50 PM _unreal_: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61uG%2Bc8P7rL._SL1500_.jpg
04:50 PM _unreal_: most of those are only rated at 9amps though
04:50 PM veegee: ah "slip ring" is the keyword
05:01 PM roycroft: um, ok
05:02 PM roycroft: omron make what looks to be like a very nice line of actuators/indicators
05:02 PM roycroft: all modular
05:02 PM roycroft: but they require a 22.3mm opening to mount
05:02 PM roycroft: most manufactures build for 22.0mm openings
05:02 PM roycroft: my chassis punch is 22.0mm
05:03 PM roycroft: it seems odd to oversize by a tiny amount like that
05:05 PM Rab: veegee, https://www.ebay.com/itm/111674076741
05:05 PM roycroft: i wonder if they would fit anyway
05:05 PM roycroft: i should go measure a "22mm" hole that my chassis punch makes
05:06 PM Rab: Claimed specs are 600VAC @ 30A, which is maybe the point at which it vaporizes if you breathe on it.
05:30 PM * JT-Shop just noticed a credit at McMaster for $164
05:31 PM _unreal_: finally apears to be working
05:31 PM _unreal_: TRYING to upgrade my daughters computer win7 to win10 etc...
05:31 PM _unreal_: and just reinstall the OS regardless
05:32 PM _unreal_: GOT IT dirt cheap at a former re-store
05:38 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, that is not considered an upgrade
06:04 PM htasta: haha indeed Tom, unreal just made the computer worse :D
06:29 PM roycroft: you know, i've only gotten two robocalls today so far
06:30 PM roycroft: that's way fewer than normal this time of year
06:30 PM roycroft: maybe even the republicans are checking to see if people have turned their ballots in before calling
06:31 PM roycroft: maybe they've just run out of money
06:32 PM roycroft: whatever the case, it's nice that the phone is not ringing constantly
06:35 PM Tom_L: they've focused on weighing my mailbox down now instead
06:37 PM roycroft: i only got one campaign flyer in my postal mail today
06:37 PM roycroft: it was for the local school district bond measure
06:37 PM roycroft: and it was certainly mailed before receipt of my ballot had been recorded, because that just happened yesterday
06:38 PM roycroft: and local mail goes to seattle and back before it gets delivered now
06:38 PM roycroft: so it takes 3 days to send a letter across town
06:38 PM roycroft: that's for first class
06:38 PM roycroft: bulk mail probably takes a week
06:38 PM roycroft: i'm almost feeling canadian these days
06:39 PM roycroft: i can get mail from across the country faster than local mail
06:39 PM roycroft: i thought that was canada post's thing
07:02 PM roycroft: so yay
07:02 PM roycroft: i just found two of the key switches that i need one of
07:03 PM roycroft: also a box of aviation connectors, female chassis mount and male plug, but they're two conductors, so fairly useless for my immediate needs
07:03 PM roycroft: i also found an e-stop switch
07:04 PM veegee: Random question: cold water pressure washers aren't supposed to be used with hot water. Why is that? Is it because it'll damage the seals or overheat the pump?
07:05 PM veegee: I can't find any reasonably priced hot water pressure washer. I'm contemplating using warm water, like around 50ºC with my cold water pressure washer to clean grease/oil
07:05 PM veegee: even warm water cleans waaaayyyyyy better than cold tap water
07:06 PM veegee: Doesn't need to be 95ºC hot so I can't justify spending $5,000 on a hot water pressure washer
07:07 PM roycroft: get a cheap steam cleaner
07:07 PM veegee: This is for concrete/pavement
07:08 PM roycroft: my guess on the pressure washer is mere speculation, but it is that the tolerances are such in the high pressure part of the pump that thermal expansion would likely blow the seals
07:09 PM roycroft: so now i'm looking for something that i know exists, but i'm not sure what it's called and i'm not finding it
07:09 PM roycroft: these key switches that i have are 3/4" in diameter where they go through the panel
07:09 PM roycroft: but have a flat ground on one side
07:10 PM roycroft: i can get a 3/4" d-shaped panel punch for them
07:10 PM roycroft: but that would cost me $700
07:10 PM roycroft: so it's not going to happen
07:10 PM roycroft: there are washers to lock them in place though
07:10 PM roycroft: they are d-shaped on the inside
07:10 PM roycroft: and circular on the outside, with a small tab sticking out at 90 degrees
07:10 PM roycroft: one makes a 3/4" hole
07:11 PM roycroft: cuts/files/whatever a small notch at the edge of the hole where the washer tab passes through
07:11 PM roycroft: and that lets one install the switch and index it
07:11 PM roycroft: what are those washers called?
07:16 PM * roycroft notes that if he had a cnc mill he could make the d-shaped openings, with only a wee bit of filing required at the corners, but the chicken/egg problem is present again
07:47 PM Tom_L: roycroft, search keyed internal washer
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: making popcorn for tonight's show
07:53 PM unterhaus: did we ever figure out if Gene fried his card?
07:54 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, pretty soon we'll have you off the couch participating
07:57 PM unterhaus: CaptHindsight, did you ever figure out what happened to the QTpyVCP discussion?
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus: moved to the matrix
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: the link that copies it to and from IRC is broken
08:14 PM Tom_L: hazzy is inactive now?
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: so matrix and discord
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: nope just a few familiar faces since the link broke
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: there was some net spilt and purge when it happened
08:15 PM Tom_L: irc certainly isn't wat it used to be
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: chicken schnitzel, beef stew and Shepherds Pie tonight
08:17 PM CaptHindsight: cooking for the next few days
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: seems to be dying since the kids like discord and similar
08:25 PM jdh: I've been on another channel since 1992
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: still popular but it has changed since the 90's
08:30 PM Tom_L: i migraged from chatjunkies to freenode in the early 90's
08:35 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: about the same time I lost interest in politics
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: my interest has been more in the pathology of the sides chosen