#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 21 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:27 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
01:41 AM veegee: Lucky you
01:41 AM veegee: My sleep problems are medical in nature and perpetual
01:41 AM veegee: Only treated with medication that is carcinogenic and banned in Canada except for existing prescriptions
01:42 AM veegee: I'd take being woken up by a bug in a fire alarm any day over the curses I have to live with every day
01:44 AM Loetmichel: i am not a morning person. I am barely functioning at 0700, not to mention 0400
01:46 AM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
01:54 AM Deejay: moin
03:43 AM Loetmichel: Man, why is it that you always find all the f'ups of a worker after you fired him (this morning)? just wanted to CNC mill something... one machine didnt reference... one switch molten with about 10cm of cable... he must have used a torch to unstick some parts from the vacuum table and got carried away... the other machine had 2mm deep valleys in the vacuum table plate... when trying to face
03:43 AM Loetmichel: it off i noticed a sawtooth in both directions... Mill head was nearly a degree out of alingment in both directions. WHY?
04:52 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:53 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: wonder if that worker had a impact
04:53 AM XXCoder: or 10x speed
04:53 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: its a chinese 6040
04:53 AM XXCoder: i know
04:53 AM Loetmichel: you dont need much of an impact to move the head
04:54 AM XXCoder: ya though im pretty sure you are careful to stay within limits
04:54 AM Loetmichel: i think its more plausible that he had to move the head up or down in its grip and didnt bother to realign
04:54 AM XXCoder: hmm yeah thats a possibility
04:55 AM XXCoder: what led to fire though?
04:55 AM XXCoder: curious lol
05:09 AM Loetmichel: fire?
05:09 AM Loetmichel: ah
05:09 AM XXCoder: the firing sorry heh
05:10 AM Loetmichel: [10:45] <Loetmichel> wasnt my decisoon although i agreed with it. one Fup too many.
05:10 AM Loetmichel: [10:46] <Loetmichel> he broke half a dozen shielding glass panes this morning (230eur each) instead of asking what is wrong before destroying the second and more.
05:10 AM XXCoder: oh missed that
05:10 AM XXCoder: wow that isnt good at all
05:12 AM XXCoder: i would ask if im not sure on first one, if im reasonable sure what happened, and it still broke after my adjustment i would ask
05:13 AM Loetmichel: problemm is that they have 8 weeks lead time
05:13 AM Loetmichel: and we are now short two
05:13 AM Loetmichel: for the job
05:13 AM Loetmichel: apart from the price
05:14 AM XXCoder: 6 would tank the profit. its not likely profit now. and still must make em for contract for future
05:21 AM Loetmichel: nah, it is still profit. we take ridicilous amounts of money for a single system
05:22 AM XXCoder: wow that much. though it still is harmful
05:22 AM Loetmichel: but delivering it in time is hard when the workers destroy more than the allotted spares of long lead items very short to the deadline
05:22 AM XXCoder: rep hit on 2 missing too unless you manage to get 2
05:23 AM Loetmichel: its for military/services... they usually expect to pay thru the nose anyways ;)
05:23 AM Loetmichel: i will probably have to cannibalize two of our demo systems that have the same glass size
05:23 AM Loetmichel: and repair them when the new panes are in
05:24 AM Loetmichel: still a PITA
05:24 AM XXCoder: nice
05:24 AM XXCoder: hopefully no more breakage
06:12 AM Tom_L: morning
06:13 AM XXCoder: yo
08:19 AM AgentWD40: I have an axis config I made using pncconf, is there a simple way to get this config to run in a simulation mode? (rather play with this at the moment than the preinstalled simulation configs)
09:32 AM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
09:36 AM roycroft: hi folks
09:36 AM roycroft: does anyone have preferred power connectors for small 4 wire stepper motors?
09:37 AM roycroft: i'm looking for panel mount jacks for the controller enclosure and plugs for the wires that go to the motors themselves
09:38 AM unterhaus: I thought people usually used mic connectors
09:38 AM unterhaus: neutrik are really nice though, if you are feeling flush
09:38 AM unterhaus: powercon
09:39 AM serp: i guess it depends on how big of a motor but my laser uses shielded cat5
09:47 AM roycroft: yeah, i was looking at the neutrix power connectors, but i don't see any that are 4 wire
09:47 AM roycroft: i could use a pair of them for each motor but that seems messy
09:49 AM serp: cannon connectors?
09:52 AM unterhaus: maybe I didn't use powercon. Speakon are rated for quote a bit of current
10:01 AM roycroft: yes, the speakon series is for loudspeakers, and can handle a decent amount of current
10:01 AM roycroft: the neutrix website claims there are female speakon chassis connectors, but only shows inline speakon connectors
10:02 AM * roycroft will dig deeper
10:04 AM unterhaus: it has been years since I bought mine, but I have panel mount
10:04 AM unterhaus: bulkhead
10:04 AM unterhaus: probably got them from mouser
10:05 AM roycroft: it would not make sense for them not to exist
10:05 AM roycroft: especially since neutrik claim to make them
10:07 AM roycroft: yeah, i found them in a completely different place on the neutrik websie
10:09 AM roycroft: and they are rated at 40a
10:09 AM roycroft: i think i can deal with that
10:09 AM roycroft: my power supply is 10a total, and that gets split between three motors
10:10 AM Rab: unterhaus, I think the difference between speakon and powercon is that powercon is designed for make/break under load.
10:11 AM roycroft: the 4 pole speakon connectors are also water resistant
10:11 AM roycroft: i don't anticipate them to ever be in a damp or wet envirotnment
10:12 AM unterhaus: Rab sounds like a requirement I don't have
10:12 AM roycroft: and make or break under load is not an issue for this application
10:12 AM unterhaus: great way to blow my amps, which I found inadvertently
10:13 AM roycroft: they're not very expensive, btw
10:14 AM roycroft: i mean yeah, i can get no-name xlr connectors for $1.50
10:14 AM roycroft: but the neutrik are in the $6 range
10:14 AM unterhaus: never did figure out what was wrong with the amp that lost a phase, replaced the igbt module and still faulted
10:14 AM roycroft: which is not that much considering i'll need exactly 3 panel connectors and 3 plugs for this
10:14 AM roycroft: $36 total
10:14 AM unterhaus: not too bad
10:15 AM unterhaus: I fully expect to find my mesa board today, just ordered a replacement
10:16 AM Rab: Yeah, I think AliExpress power connectors are a false economy. -_-;
10:16 AM unterhaus: there are speakon clones, dunno if they have panel mount though
10:20 AM roycroft: if one has thousands of dollars invested in the machine, and another $1000 or so in cnc upgrade hardware, going cheap on connectors does not make sense
10:20 AM roycroft: i'm not wont to overengineer things
10:20 AM roycroft: but i also don't like to cut corners
10:21 AM roycroft: and i should note that building a 250kg woodworking bench for hand tool work is not overengineering, in spite of the opinion of some :)
10:21 AM roycroft: i can hand plane on that bench with 1/3 the effort required with my old one
10:21 AM roycroft: because i'm not moving the bench, just the plane
10:30 AM unterhaus: I have wasted do much money on my machine, $36 is nothing.
10:50 AM Tom_L: roycroft, i used din plugs
10:52 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control7.jpg
10:53 AM roycroft: aircraft connectors would also work
10:53 AM roycroft: i.e. aviation plugs
10:53 AM roycroft: i've used those on my brew system
10:54 AM unterhaus: I was looking at aircraft connectors because I need them for some servo motors. $100 a side
10:54 AM roycroft: in fact, i may have a box of them laying around, but i thin the ones i have are 3 pin, not 4 pin
10:55 AM Tom_L: before my local guy closed i could get any between 2 and 8 pin
10:55 AM unterhaus: I have some, and even found some that I needed, which was a big surprise
10:55 AM roycroft: i hadn't considered din connectors because i didn't think they would handle the current
10:55 AM roycroft: but i really never checked the specs
10:55 AM roycroft: i'll be sure to do that
10:55 AM Tom_L: i dunno, i've been using them for some time now with no issues
10:56 AM roycroft: the nice thing about aviation connectors is that i could "idot proof" the panel easily
10:57 AM roycroft: by using, say, a male 4 pin panel connector for x, female 4 pin for y, male 5 pin for z, and female 5 pin for a
10:57 AM roycroft: or whatever
10:57 AM unterhaus: with MS connectors you can clock them, but I forget how
10:58 AM roycroft: that shouldn't be a problem because 1. i always label everything clearly, and 2. once installed and tested i do not forsee needing to touch the stuff again
10:58 AM roycroft: but i like idiot proofing
10:58 AM roycroft: i never know when i'm going to be an idiot
10:59 AM roycroft: it's something that happens without warning
10:59 AM unterhaus: I like to connectorize everything but it's possible that has caused me more trouble than its worth
10:59 AM unterhaus: my control cabinet is bolted to my mill, do I really ever need to disconnect the wires? Not sure
11:00 AM Tom_L: never say never
11:00 AM unterhaus: well, then you can disconnect somewhere else
11:00 AM roycroft: my control enclosure will be mounted in the rack where the linuxcnc computer lives
11:00 AM roycroft: it will be next to the mill but not directly attached to it
11:00 AM unterhaus: in that case you probably want to connectorize
11:00 AM roycroft: yes
11:00 AM Tom_L: when i built the control it was still attached to a sherline
11:01 AM Tom_L: it didn't seem feasable to mount it to the side of a sherline :)
11:01 AM Tom_L: so now i just hung it on the wall
11:01 AM unterhaus: sherline probably would have worked if it fell over
11:01 AM roycroft: and actually, i'm going to design this so that i can disconnect everything from the mill and plug the controller into a lathe or router if i decide i want to do that
11:01 AM unterhaus: don't do that :)
11:02 AM roycroft: i'm not sure if that's something i'll want to do, but it won't be hard to design with that goal in mind
11:03 AM roycroft: i don't anticipate using multiple cnc devices at the same time, other than 3d printers, which will be self-contained and live in a different room
11:03 AM unterhaus: I think I have enough stuff to run 3 big machines and a number of sherlines
11:03 AM roycroft: and i don't want to build multiple control panels
11:03 AM roycroft: because i'm planning on building a pretty nice control panel, with a touch screen and pendant
11:04 AM unterhaus: I feel like I wouldn't want to be moving my control panels around, but who knows?
11:04 AM roycroft: i am considering building one control panel/linuxcnc machine, and a controller housing the bob/drivers/etc. for each machine
11:05 AM roycroft: well my control panel will live on a roll-around equipment rack
11:05 AM roycroft: it would not be hard to move at all
11:05 AM roycroft: in theory i could use multiple controllers with a single control panel/linuxcnc machine
11:06 AM unterhaus: I bought a batch of mil spec connectors a long time ago, some of them are probably 200 contacts
11:06 AM roycroft: and when i want to switch machines, just move a couple plugs and load lcnc with a different profile
11:06 AM unterhaus: that's what you need
11:06 AM roycroft: i don't think i need that many contacts
11:06 AM unterhaus: one connector to rule them all
11:06 AM roycroft: but i can get aviation connectors with a *lot* of pins
11:06 AM Tom_L: just have multiple icons on the desktop labelled for each machine
11:07 AM roycroft: and as far as the linuxcnc computer goes, if i put a 7i76 in each machine controller it's just moving a single db-25 cable around
11:07 AM roycroft: i could probably even build a switch to do that
11:07 AM unterhaus: mesa ethernet card for each machine and just move the computer around
11:07 AM roycroft: i have a 5i25, and will probably stick with that
11:07 AM unterhaus: you might lose it
11:08 AM roycroft: but my application is a good argument for an ethernet mesa card
11:08 AM unterhaus: never know
11:08 AM Tom_L: 7i80 would get you plenty of IO
11:09 AM jymmmm: morning
11:09 AM Tom_L: but decide if you're going with DB25 or 50 pin daughter cards
11:10 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/ControlPanelWiring/ControlPanelChassis.jpeg
11:10 AM Tom_L: jymmmm dandy to the rescue!!
11:10 AM roycroft: that's how i like to wire things
11:10 AM roycroft: although that panel is a bit messy
11:10 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: Dandy?
11:10 AM Tom_L: it's a countr song
11:10 AM Tom_L: meh
11:10 AM roycroft: and i used a different kind of molex connector for each wire bundle
11:11 AM unterhaus: I never figured out how to bundle like that
11:12 AM roycroft: the answer is one word: patience
11:12 AM unterhaus: I have some of the wax cord people used to use
11:12 AM roycroft: it takes a *long* time
11:12 AM unterhaus: panduit lets you hide everything
11:12 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: ah, heh
11:13 AM jymmmm: panduit let's you work on things easily
11:13 AM roycroft: if you leave the wires unsheathed like that you don't have to derate them inside a control panel, unless you bundle a lot of them together
11:14 AM roycroft: put them in a wrapper and you have to derate them one wire gauge size
11:14 AM roycroft: just like in conduit
11:15 AM jymmmm: panduit has a lot of airflow
11:15 AM unterhaus: not the way I do it
11:15 AM jymmmm: unterhaus: lol
11:15 AM unterhaus: same with conduit
11:16 AM jymmmm: unterhaus: but that sounds like you are just beaing cheap bstard in theat respect
11:16 AM jymmmm: that*
11:16 AM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/ControlPanelWiring/ControlPanelFrontPanel.jpeg
11:16 AM roycroft: that's the front panel that connects to the chassis
11:16 AM roycroft: and that's why i have all the molex connectors
11:16 AM roycroft: my old panel was hard wired to the chassis
11:17 AM unterhaus: only so much room around here
11:17 AM roycroft: and it was very difficult to do service
11:17 AM jymmmm: unterhaus: ah
11:17 AM roycroft: when i rebuilt it i decided to do so in a way where i can completely remove the front panel from the chassis
11:18 AM unterhaus: although there is one conduit I overstuffed before I knew I wasn't supposed to do that
11:18 AM unterhaus: I might fix it someday
11:19 AM unterhaus: the question I'm asking myself now is, if I were a cable tie mount, where would I be?
11:19 AM roycroft: hopefully before it causes a fire
11:19 AM unterhaus: unlikely
11:19 AM roycroft: famous last words :)
11:20 AM unterhaus: maybe if someone buys the house and starts a sweat shop
11:20 AM unterhaus: but there are only so many people that will fit in that room
11:24 AM unterhaus: I feel like a tablesaw isn't going to pull enough constant current to burn up a 3/4EMT conduit, even if I am running a fan on the 110 line at the same time
11:25 AM jymmmm: unterhaus: CB would trip first
11:25 AM unterhaus: conduit fill requirements are pretty conservative, I think
11:26 AM Tom_L: yeah, fill em up til nothin else fits
11:26 AM unterhaus: I always wondered if it was because they were thinking people would add wire later
11:26 AM unterhaus: like I did
11:26 AM jymmmm: I know that 8 12ga fit in 3/4 without overloading it
11:28 AM unterhaus: I think I'm just over, have 4 10 guage and 5 12 guage
11:28 AM unterhaus: maybe
11:28 AM jymmmm: ah
11:30 AM unterhaus: fill tables I see say I'm okay
11:31 AM unterhaus: i could have 10 10 gauge
11:33 AM jymmmm: cool
11:34 AM Tom_L: might need lotsa soap to pull all those
11:36 AM jymmmm: lots of lube... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FMGNV51
11:37 AM jymmmm: (the comments are funny)
11:40 AM roycroft: electrical codes tend to be conservative, but not overly so
11:41 AM roycroft: and if you ever have an issue and you're not code compliant, your insurance claim will be denied
11:41 AM roycroft: that's reason enough to adhere to code
11:44 AM unterhaus: I feel like the fire is going to come from the wiring the PO did and the original wiring
11:45 AM unterhaus: the previous owner was a failed handyman
11:46 AM roycroft: the previous owner survived living there
11:46 AM roycroft: so not failed
11:46 AM unterhaus: only somewhat wiring related, but they put a dropped ceiling in and left the smoke detector above it
11:47 AM unterhaus: found it when the kids overflowed the toilet
11:47 AM unterhaus: some failures take years or even decades to expose themselves
11:48 AM unterhaus: which is what I'm counting on
11:49 AM roycroft: for my small mill, is it worth investing in annular cutters for making large holes?
11:49 AM roycroft: knowing that the mill will be cnc converted before too long
11:49 AM unterhaus: what kind of annular cutter?
11:50 AM roycroft: the standard type with weldon shanks
11:52 AM roycroft: an advantage to the weldon shank cutters is that i can get an r8 to 3/4" weldon adapter with coolant inlet
11:52 AM roycroft: that would be sweet
11:53 AM unterhaus: if you need it
11:53 AM unterhaus: what are you going to use if for?
11:53 AM roycroft: for making holes in parts
11:54 AM roycroft: i just wonder if it would be faster than using a smaller end mill cutting in a helical path
11:54 AM unterhaus: not as good
11:54 AM unterhaus: not sure about faster
11:54 AM roycroft: but good enough for a lot of stuff
11:54 AM roycroft: the immediate application would be panel openings
11:54 AM unterhaus: just get a hole saw
11:55 AM roycroft: eew
11:55 AM unterhaus: it's under a connector
11:55 AM roycroft: it's still messy and a pain in the butt to use
11:55 AM unterhaus: "good enough for inside a box" as I always say
11:56 AM roycroft: why not just grab a torch and burn out a hole that's the approximate size?
11:56 AM roycroft: that's not much worse than using a hole saw
11:56 AM unterhaus: you can true them up on a lathe
11:56 AM unterhaus: I can do the hole saw without dragging the tanks to the basement
11:57 AM unterhaus: also they have hole saws with a lot of teeth, can get them at lowes
11:59 AM unterhaus: a couple sizes of annular cutters and you could pay for another control panel
11:59 AM roycroft: i have hole saws
11:59 AM roycroft: i try to avoid using them on metal
11:59 AM roycroft: they're ok for rough holes in wood
12:00 PM roycroft: i've been using a 22mm chassis punch for indicators in panels
12:00 PM unterhaus: I'm trying to avoid saying you're doing it wrong
12:00 PM roycroft: but a chassis punch like i have really isn't meant to work in anthing bigger than 18ga steel
12:01 PM roycroft: an annular cutter would not care about thickness
12:01 PM roycroft: i know how to use a hole saw
12:01 PM roycroft: i don't like them
12:01 PM roycroft: if you do, then fine
12:01 PM roycroft: i'm not asking you to use annular cutters in lieu of hole saws
12:01 PM roycroft: use what you like to use
12:02 PM roycroft: i am going to need to make some 16mm holes in a panel, and i don't have a 16mm chassis punch
12:02 PM roycroft: a 16mm annular cutter would cost roughly the same as a chasis punch
12:02 PM roycroft: i'd have to shell out $60-$100 for the r8 adapter, but that's a one time expense
12:03 PM roycroft: that's the variable that i'm concerned about
12:04 PM roycroft: if an end mill will be as fast or faster, then once the cnc conversion is done the advantage of annular cutters is lost
12:05 PM roycroft: and that is what i'm asking about, not annular cutter vs. hole saw or other random method of making holes
12:06 PM Tom_L: faster would depend on how rigid the machine is
12:06 PM roycroft: it's a small mill
12:06 PM Tom_L: my kid runs parts at 400ipm all day
12:07 PM Tom_L: but the machine is designed for it
12:07 PM roycroft: axial cutting is certainly easier than radial cutting
12:07 PM roycroft: and there, the advantage of an annular cutter may return
12:07 PM Tom_L: harder on mill cutters
12:16 PM roycroft: oh, actually i found an m16 chassis punch for $12
12:17 PM roycroft: that might be the best thing to use for now
12:17 PM roycroft: and once the cnc conversion is done i can experiment with end mills to see how efficiently they work
12:17 PM roycroft: and postpone the annular cutter decision until then
12:33 PM andypugh: Annular cutters are especially useful if you have a mag drill that only takes annullar cutters :-)
12:34 PM andypugh: I made a holder for annular cutters for my lathe toolpost. Handy for when you break off a centre drill in the job...
12:35 PM andypugh: If you have a lathe then it’s as easy to make an R8 adaptor as to buy one. (exaggeration)
12:36 PM andypugh: But you don’t need the special adaptor, they can be held perfectly adequately in a collet.
12:47 PM roycroft: a collet would be an inexpensive way to try one out
12:52 PM unterhaus: my wife's uncle had acquired a large number of cabinet punches at an auction. I think that was why someone overpaid for the contents of his basement
12:53 PM unterhaus: I heard later they used six semi trailers to store all the junk he had down there. He got it at auctions for electrical equiment
12:54 PM unterhaus: But all the nice stuff was right at the bottom of the stairs
12:57 PM unterhaus: is there an advantage to holding it in the toolpost vs in the tailstock?
01:24 PM roycroft: using a collet would also be more rigid than using an adapter
01:24 PM roycroft: which on my machine is a big deal
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: anyone ever come across thick walled bubble wrap? Clear, ~25mm bubbles, wall thickness that can take a persons heel stomp and not burst
02:21 PM roycroft: you must be really frustrated about something if you need bubble wrap that thick
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: don't assume it's for use as typical bubble wrap
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: it's not for packing
02:26 PM roycroft: the typical use for bubble wrap is not for packing
02:26 PM roycroft: it's for stress relief
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: not for poppers either
02:33 PM jymmmm: unterhaus_: Lube for all your wire pulling needs... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OMY2PT4
02:37 PM roycroft: i've used more than that on fiber pulls
02:55 PM unterhaus_: how do you apply that much lube? I saw them doing it on a long distance pull, but don't remember how they did it
02:55 PM unterhaus_: looked like a scene from alien.
02:55 PM roycroft: we pump it into five gallon buckets
02:55 PM roycroft: and pour from the small bucket into the conduit using a funnel while the fiber is being pulled
02:56 PM roycroft: 4" conduits, up to 600' between fiber vaults
02:56 PM unterhaus_: CaptHindsight I recently got something with really tough packing bubbles. The air was in conpartments about the size of a hot dog and there were 5 of them per pad
02:56 PM roycroft: pulls up to 5 miles long
02:57 PM unterhaus_: roycroft, I finally ordered a dado blade set
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: yeah I've gotten some of that as well, cylinder vs round bubbles
02:58 PM unterhaus_: probably a reason the bubbles are bigger
02:58 PM unterhaus_: I imagine it wouldn't pop too easily
02:58 PM roycroft: cool
02:58 PM roycroft: what kind of dado set?
02:58 PM unterhaus_: freud, about $100
02:59 PM unterhaus_: just couldn't see going for the good ones rightt now
02:59 PM roycroft: so with the chipper blades
02:59 PM roycroft: not the wobble kind, eh?
02:59 PM unterhaus_: right
02:59 PM roycroft: it will do a decent job
03:00 PM roycroft: if you need really clean dados you will want to cut to just less than finished depth and finish with a router plane or shoulder plane
03:00 PM unterhaus_: faster than cutting over and over again
03:00 PM roycroft: stacked dado sets leave bat ears
03:00 PM roycroft: i have a forrest dado set, which is the rolls royce of stacked dado sets, and it still makes bat ears
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: the bubble application calls for many layers of bubbles, 4-5 layers
03:01 PM roycroft: often that doesn't matter, as the dado will be hidden
03:01 PM roycroft: but when the end of the dado is exposed it can be a problem
03:01 PM unterhaus_: freud makes a box joint set for flat bottom dados, but not great reviews
03:01 PM roycroft: forrest do too
03:02 PM roycroft: and they work better than the stacked dado set, but are not very adjustable
03:02 PM roycroft: and are expensive
03:02 PM roycroft: you buy a pair of cutters and you get exactly two widths, depending on how you sandwich them together
03:02 PM roycroft: there are two different sets, so you can get up to four different widths if you buy both
03:03 PM roycroft: and invest close to $300
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: https://www.ebay.com/i/323580027186
03:03 PM roycroft: i usually use a power router when i need really clean dados
03:03 PM roycroft: but where it's impractical to use that, i'll use the stacked dado set on the table saw and clean up with a router plane or shoulder plane
03:04 PM unterhaus_: CaptHindsight what is the pump like?
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: pump?
03:06 PM unterhaus_: I made a 1" wide shoulder plane. I have wanted to make a 1/2" one but havent' yet
03:06 PM unterhaus_: aren't those bubbles inflatable?
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: Dado blades used in saw tables are "illegal" in the UK
03:06 PM unterhaus_: they are a little scary
03:06 PM unterhaus_: can't guard them
03:07 PM unterhaus_: I guess you can guard them
03:07 PM roycroft: yeah, but there's normall no need to guard them
03:08 PM unterhaus_: sawstop makes a dado cartridge, that has to be a lot more fun than the regular cartridge when it fires
03:08 PM roycroft: they don't do through cuts
03:08 PM roycroft: the blades should never be exposed during the cut
03:21 PM roycroft: kickback is the greater concern, and a guard isn't going to help much with that
03:21 PM roycroft: proper technique is the best safeguard against kickback
03:25 PM JT-Cave: it's fun when the regular cartridge fires off...
03:27 PM roycroft: i still have my old grizzly g1023 (delta unisaw clone)
03:28 PM roycroft: if i were to buy a new saw today i'd get a sawstop
03:28 PM roycroft: but i'm not going to replace the one i have just for that
03:29 PM JT-Cave: I didn't get the sawstop for the stopping part, I got it because it has a very good adjustments for everything on the saw
03:31 PM roycroft: if i'm honest, i would not mind a left tilting arbor
03:31 PM roycroft: but it's not worth the investment for that feature
03:32 PM roycroft: especially since it's so rare that i would find it useful
03:32 PM roycroft: most of the time when i'm doing angle cuts it's on narrow boards, where i can just move the fence to the other side of the blade
03:32 PM roycroft: and since i got my track saw i've been using that for angle cuts on large panels
03:34 PM unterhaus_: they used to have a sawstop contractor saw at work, and it was a really good saw
03:35 PM unterhaus_: I also am too cheap to replace my PM66 with a sawstop, but every time I say that I think I should
03:36 PM Deejay: gn8
03:40 PM JT-Shop: I've used the left side many times on the sawstop
03:41 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, what track saw do you have?
03:41 PM roycroft: festool
03:41 PM roycroft: the small one
03:41 PM roycroft: i only use it for panels, so i don't see the need for the big one for me
03:41 PM * Tom_L feels like this is Bob the Builder channel now :)
03:42 PM * roycroft doubts that bob the builder is a sawstop/festool guy
03:44 PM Tom_L: just made a regretful trip to the nifty nut house
03:45 PM Tom_L: https://niftynuthouse.com/index.php?
03:47 PM JT-Shop: more like the woodwright's shop meets 21's century
03:47 PM JT-Shop: crap I gained a pound just looking at the photos
03:47 PM Tom_L: haha
03:48 PM Tom_L: mostly for my inlaw
03:48 PM Tom_L: they can't get that stuff in savannah
03:48 PM JT-Shop: I need a 0 calorie snack chip
03:48 PM JT-Shop: you driving there or shipping it to them?
03:48 PM Tom_L: i'm not going this trip but she is
03:48 PM roycroft: make some nori chips
03:49 PM roycroft: they're not zero calorie
03:49 PM roycroft: but they're like 7 calories
03:49 PM roycroft: for a bunch of them
03:49 PM JT-Shop: going to run the spoke lathe in semi-auto in the morning then sort out full auto
03:49 PM JT-Shop: nori chips?
03:49 PM Tom_L: i bet it's a challenge going back and forth fitting parts on it
03:49 PM roycroft: yeah
03:49 PM roycroft: you take sheets of nori
03:49 PM Tom_L: or did he bring it to you?
03:50 PM roycroft: sprinkle a little oil on both sides, and some seasoning
03:50 PM JT-Shop: I wonder if Kroger has nori?
03:50 PM roycroft: bake them for a few seconds
03:50 PM roycroft: i don't know
03:50 PM Tom_L: whole foods might if they don't
03:50 PM roycroft: i haven't been to a kroger since 1980
03:50 PM roycroft: but kroger own fred meyer's now
03:50 PM roycroft: and fred meyer's have nori
03:51 PM roycroft: whole foods *definitely* have nori
03:51 PM roycroft: they probably have nori chips pre-made
03:52 PM JT-Shop: I'm doing it in situ and he is on the opposite side of town so lots of trips
03:52 PM roycroft: my experience is that if you buy nori chips, the wasabi ones have dire warnings that they're really hot
03:52 PM roycroft: they are not
03:52 PM roycroft: they have a hint of heat
03:52 PM roycroft: "real hot" is for people who think jalapeños are hot, i guess
03:52 PM JT-Shop: kroger does have a section with wasabi and stuff like that...
03:52 PM JT-Shop: I like wasabi
03:53 PM roycroft: some of the best wasabi in the world is grown just west of here, in florence oregon
03:53 PM roycroft: unfortunately i've never tried it
03:53 PM roycroft: i would have to go to japan to do so, because 100% of it is exported there at ridiculous prices
03:54 PM roycroft: and i should modify my statement
03:54 PM roycroft: japanes people claim that that wasabi is some of the best in the world
03:54 PM roycroft: but japanese people like weird, exotic stuff
03:54 PM JT-Shop: looks like kroger has 17 nori products
03:54 PM JT-Shop: back to work for me for a bit
03:55 PM roycroft: and if someone grows wasabi on the other side of the ocean and claims it's better than the rest, the japanese will be all for it, as long as it's really expensive
03:55 PM roycroft: well i like nori for snack products
03:55 PM roycroft: crumbled nori is really good on popcorn, btw
03:57 PM roycroft: if you decide to make your own nori chips i would recommend using sesame oil over any other kind of oil
03:58 PM * roycroft guesses bob the builder would probably not be discussing nori products
04:00 PM Tom_L: yeah likely not
04:40 PM roycroft: windows is such utter shite
04:40 PM roycroft: i really really hate it
04:40 PM jymmmm: I like em, they let light in and stuff.
04:40 PM roycroft: i was just in the middle of updating a drawing with autocad when my windows 10 vm decided to reboot itself to install updates
04:41 PM roycroft: and by the time i was able to click the "don't do that" button it had already committed to it
04:41 PM roycroft: this, after i spent a bunch of time a few months ago figuring out how to disable automatic updates
04:41 PM roycroft: which worked for a while
04:41 PM roycroft: but apparently it wasn't a sticky enough fix
04:42 PM jymmmm: Heh, that's ALL drawing programs, no matter the distro. You learn to use CTRL+S frequently, like every 10 minutes.
04:42 PM roycroft: no, i'm not talking about autocad
04:42 PM roycroft: and i do save frequently
04:42 PM roycroft: it's not that
04:42 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: to be fair, they do need to occasionally do a mandatory reboot to install important user advertisments.
04:42 PM roycroft: it's the fucking 20 minutes it takes to install the updates
04:42 PM roycroft: 20 minutes of my life that i'll never get back
04:43 PM roycroft: i'm talking about windows updates
04:43 PM roycroft: i really don't care if it *ever* updates
04:43 PM roycroft: it works as it is
04:44 PM roycroft: and i never use the machine to connect to the internet
04:44 PM roycroft: except when microsoft calls home to force me to install updates
04:55 PM unterhaus_: I schedule updates for 3 in the morning
04:59 PM roycroft: the vm is never on at 3am
04:59 PM roycroft: i turn it on when i need to use autocad
04:59 PM roycroft: and i turn it off when i'm done
04:59 PM roycroft: i'm never awake at 3am
04:59 PM roycroft: so the vm is never on at 3am
05:00 PM roycroft: because clever as i sometimes think i am, i'm not clever enough to do cad work while i'm sleeping
05:05 PM snakedLX is now known as snaked
05:08 PM rs[m]: roycroft: get a non-shareware version of windows
05:11 PM roycroft: i purchased an official windows distro
05:11 PM roycroft: i don't pirate stuff
05:20 PM roycroft: i'm working on my power circuit right now for the cnc controller
05:20 PM roycroft: is it best to power up the linuxcnc computer first, the conroller hardware first, or does it matter at all?
05:21 PM JT-Shop: depends on the setup
05:21 PM roycroft: the controller hardware being the machine specific stuff such as the motor drives and the bob
05:21 PM JT-Shop: prob the pc first and linuxcnc then bob
05:21 PM roycroft: the interface between the computer and the controller is a 5i25 -> 7i26
05:21 PM roycroft: ok
05:22 PM roycroft: i want to control all of this from one place
05:22 PM roycroft: which will either be the control panel or the controller case
05:22 PM JT-Shop: in that case you must power up the 7i76 before linuxcnc
05:22 PM roycroft: oh
05:22 PM JT-Shop: I assume you meant 7i76
05:22 PM roycroft: yes
05:22 PM roycroft: yes
05:22 PM roycroft: sorry, typo
05:22 PM roycroft: i'm good at those :)
05:23 PM JT-Shop: otherwise linuxcnc can't see the 7i76
05:23 PM roycroft: i'm going to power up with a momentary contact switch that will drive a latching contactor
05:24 PM roycroft: so i'll set it up to do that, which will power the ps for the drives and the rest of the controller hardware
05:24 PM roycroft: and then add a second switch to power up the linuxcnc computer
05:24 PM roycroft: which does not need to be latching
05:25 PM roycroft: but i should wire it to prevent powering the controller if the switch is in the on position
05:25 PM roycroft: how long does it take for the 7i76 to initialize?
05:25 PM _unreal_: ok... ok I'll just put the hat away
05:26 PM _unreal_: ? arg... love it when its scrolled way up
05:26 PM roycroft: oh, and the 7i76 will also connect to a 7i73
05:26 PM roycroft: does the order of powering those up matter?
05:27 PM _unreal_: roycroft, generally always power the PC first
05:27 PM _unreal_: AND OR the mesa card
05:27 PM roycroft: except jt just told me it won't work if i do that
05:27 PM sync: roycroft: kind of your own fault if you let the VM see the internet then
05:27 PM roycroft: yeah, sync, i should probably just give it a bogus gateway
05:27 PM sync: of just turn the adapter off.
05:28 PM roycroft: but no, i don't think it's my fault
05:28 PM _unreal_: the mesa should boot at the same time as the PC
05:28 PM _unreal_: idealy
05:28 PM roycroft: i need to be able to talk to the printer and plotter
05:28 PM _unreal_: motor controller should be powered by the MESA
05:28 PM _unreal_: enabling mains power relays
05:28 PM sync: then it really is your fault
05:28 PM sync: if you let it talk with the internet, it will update
05:29 PM roycroft: the 5i25 will boot at the same time as the computer, because it's a pci card
05:29 PM roycroft: and the 7i76 will not be powered by the computer
05:29 PM roycroft: it has its own power supply
05:29 PM _unreal_: roycroft, use a relay
05:29 PM _unreal_: if you get 5v/12v from the PC have it power on the 7i76
05:29 PM roycroft: i'm asking for the order to power things up
05:29 PM roycroft: not for circuit details
05:30 PM roycroft: i can design the circuit
05:30 PM roycroft: when i know what i need to do
05:30 PM _unreal_: mesa cards you want on before or the same time to the best of my understanding as the PC
05:30 PM _unreal_: if its a network based mesa card then you want it on first
05:30 PM roycroft: and i think i'll go by jt's advice to power up the controller hardware before the computer
05:31 PM roycroft: i've already stated multiple time that it's a 5i25, which is a parallel interface
05:31 PM roycroft: not a network interface
05:32 PM roycroft: i'd still like to know how long a 7i76 takes to initialize
05:32 PM roycroft: because i might design a little delay circuit for powering up the computer
05:32 PM _unreal_: roycroft, likely a split second
05:33 PM * roycroft is not interested in speculation
05:33 PM _unreal_: they are an FPGA, if it takes more then a second for it to boot up I would be shocked.
05:33 PM roycroft: i can experiment and empirically determine what i need to do
05:33 PM _unreal_: they should be instant on
05:34 PM roycroft: i jsut thought someone here might know for sure before i bother with the experiment
05:34 PM unterhaus_: I"m sure pcw knows
05:34 PM _unreal_: the 7i96 being a network based one I can see taking a second to establish network but as far as booting again should be instant on.. or no more then a split second
05:35 PM _unreal_: roycroft, just look up the CHIP that poweres your mesa card and you will find out the boot time
05:35 PM roycroft: if it's really that fast then i can power everything on simultaneously
05:35 PM roycroft: because the computer will take the better part of a minute to boot
05:36 PM _unreal_: the computer will take an eternity compared aired to the mesa
05:36 PM _unreal_: ANY mesa card
05:36 PM _unreal_: that I can tell you for sure
05:37 PM roycroft: i'll probably bench test all of this before i install it in the enclosure
05:37 PM roycroft: especially since i haven't ordered the enclosure yet
05:37 PM _unreal_: after I take a shower I'm going to try wiring up the motor controllers again only this time to a grbl setup
05:38 PM _unreal_: so I can at least for sure prove or disproove the controllers
05:38 PM _unreal_: I pass that hurtle then I can fight the 7i96
05:43 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, and by power the 7i76 I meant to be more specific and say the field power to the 7i76 must be on before starting linuxcnc
05:49 PM jymmmm: Field power... the 5VDC ?
05:49 PM roycroft: ok, that's no problem at all
05:49 PM roycroft: because linuxcnc will not automatically start after the machine boots
05:50 PM roycroft: thanks
05:50 PM htasta: jymmmm: no, unless you use 5VDC as field power :D
05:50 PM roycroft: i'll keep it simple and power everything simultaneously
05:52 PM JT-Cave: usually 24vdc for field power
05:52 PM roycroft: i have to go back and figure out what i figured out a fewyears ago
05:52 PM roycroft: i've forgotten most of this, but i did have it sorted out before
05:52 PM roycroft: i bought a 5vdc and 24vdc power supply when i bought the mesa cards
05:53 PM roycroft: i think the 24vdc supply was to be for field power
05:53 PM roycroft: i don't recall the reason for the 5vdc ps
05:54 PM JT-Cave: don't need the 5vdc power supply just set the jumpers on each card for the 5i25 to supply that to the 7i76
05:54 PM roycroft: the gecko drives, iirc, will be powered directly from my48v power supply
05:54 PM JT-Cave: http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i76man.pdf
05:54 PM JT-Cave: page 10 for field power connections
05:54 PM roycroft: i have that
05:55 PM roycroft: i'm just revisiting all of this
05:55 PM roycroft: since it's time to finally put it all together
05:55 PM JT-Cave: gecko is what I use for steppers as well they are just plain bullet proof
05:56 PM roycroft: so i'll design the latching cicuit to power up the 48v power supply, the 5v power supply, the 24v power supply, and the computer all at the same time
05:56 PM roycroft: that makes that part of it pretty easy
05:57 PM roycroft: i'll probably want an indicator for each power supply, though
05:57 PM roycroft: i like indicators
05:57 PM jymmmm: roycroft: latching crcuit, you mean a relay?
05:58 PM JT-Cave: on my plasma table I have a switch for the 24vdc and 63vdc 5vdc power supply so I can leave the pc running
05:58 PM roycroft: yes
05:58 PM roycroft: a relay that is self-feeding
05:58 PM JT-Cave: a latching circuit stay on after pressing a momentary button or similar
05:58 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Yeah, there's a flaw in that circuit if you plan on using a standard relay in a latching configuration.
05:58 PM roycroft: so i power the control side with a momentary contact switch
05:59 PM roycroft: and have the load side feed back to the control side
05:59 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Why not just wire mains to be swtiched, and when on, turns on the PC and all the power supplies?
06:00 PM roycroft: i don't want it turning back on automatically after a power failure
06:00 PM roycroft: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/retired_products/relays_-z-_timers/750-2c-120a
06:00 PM roycroft: i like to use those for latching circiuts
06:00 PM roycroft: they work great
06:00 PM roycroft: even in retirement
06:01 PM roycroft: on teh ebay, nothing is ever retired
06:03 PM JT-Cave: I've used a bucket of those relays in the past
06:04 PM roycroft: my brew system control panel is 50a
06:04 PM roycroft: i use one of those to control a 50a contactor that powers the brew system
06:04 PM roycroft: and i use them on various machinery
06:04 PM roycroft: i'm really a big fan of things not turning themselves on automatically after a power outage
06:05 PM roycroft: especially things that can harm life or property
06:05 PM roycroft: i guess i'm funny that way
06:06 PM JT-Cave: nothing I have would restart after a power outage even if the power supplies are enabled except my chicken coop controls
06:06 PM htasta: lol i just realized that I never even thought about that
06:07 PM htasta: well other than having a bad feeling powering everything with a normal multi plug thing :D
06:08 PM roycroft: let's say i'm shoving some really hard, dense wood through my tablesaw and i pop a breaker
06:08 PM roycroft: i would not do that
06:08 PM roycroft: but let's say i did
06:08 PM roycroft: and i forgot to turn off the saw before resetting the breaker
06:09 PM roycroft: now i have a big blade sticking up, possibly in contact with a piece of wood that could get thrown backwards at close to 200mph if the saw turns on on its own
06:09 PM roycroft: no, thank you
06:09 PM htasta: hahaha indeed
06:09 PM roycroft: that's why all real table saws come with magnetic switches
06:10 PM roycroft: latching circuits are cheap and easy to make
06:10 PM roycroft: magnetic switches cost $100 and up
06:11 PM htasta: does pressing the button again release the latch or how do you do it?
06:12 PM htasta: is it easy to have everything turn on with 1 button but be able to individually turn parts off?
06:13 PM JT-Cave: it's a simple start/stop circuit with two push buttons no way anything can start without you pushing the button
06:15 PM JT-Cave: a N/O push button to start and a N/C push button to stop
06:17 PM JT-Cave: if you power down the relay opens and can not start itself unless you push the start button again
06:18 PM htasta: ok so 2 buttons and you would do the single button thing for both actions mechanically
06:18 PM htasta: cool
06:18 PM JT-Cave: you could start multiple things with one start button
06:18 PM htasta: yeah ofc
06:19 PM * JT-Cave wanders upstairs for some chow
06:19 PM htasta: I was just thinking about how to do it with the computer. so everything shuts down if you shut down the pc
06:20 PM htasta: bone appetite :D
06:21 PM _unreal_: like I said 5/12v relay to PC. pc is on main mains is on
06:21 PM _unreal_: pc goes off everything shuts off
06:21 PM _unreal_: downfall your looking at a power surge if everthing is on the same leg of power
06:23 PM htasta: aaaah now i see why the warning is in the mesa manual about field power and relays n stuff
06:23 PM htasta: i never even thought about the power on cascade on that level hahaha
06:24 PM htasta: I have a human controlled power on sequence lol
06:27 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20201021_182232.jpg
06:35 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest38942
06:35 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, cute
06:36 PM jymmmm: "Command 'apc' not found, but there are 23 similar ones." <---what, is that a tease "I'm not telllling"
06:36 PM roycroft: i don't think i'll see any power surges when i start up the controller and computer
06:36 PM roycroft: the computer has an ssd, so there won't even be a disk spinup surge
06:37 PM roycroft: but if there were a chance of that, it's easy to stagger startups
06:38 PM roycroft: 555 timer chips are like $0.50
06:38 PM roycroft: small relays a couple dollars
06:38 PM roycroft: there's not much to a delay circuit
06:54 PM _unreal_: this sucks, I had a USB extension cable in my hands last night. STUPID STUPID tired last night now I dont know what I did with it
06:54 PM _unreal_: My only memory is picking it up WHERE it was
06:54 PM _unreal_: :(
06:55 PM Tom_L: it was all a dream
07:00 PM roycroft: i never liked usb anyway
07:00 PM roycroft: it's overrated
08:19 PM unterhaus_: I wanted to finish wiring up the outside light and now I forgot where I put the two 3-way switched for it. I'm afraid I put them in the right place
10:31 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4sKHBh6rDk
10:43 PM veegee: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B079427FKN
10:43 PM veegee: Ha this puts a hell of an edge on my S35VN knives
10:46 PM Kevin: skunkworks: looks nice
10:48 PM skunkworks: Kevin: thanks - I shouldn't have had the glass of wine...
10:50 PM veegee: First time I've been able to shave with a knife
10:50 PM veegee: that edge is vicious
10:52 PM unterhaus_: skunkworks, that's the emco?
10:59 PM skunkworks: unterhaus_: yes.
10:59 PM skunkworks: compact 5 cnc - converted to linuxcnc
11:02 PM veegee: Nothing makes you feel more like a man than shaving with a tanto point combat knife I tell ya what
11:40 PM CaptHindsight: nah lawnmower
11:41 PM XXCoder: interesting. we have dinky knife sharper and it sucks
11:45 PM CaptHindsight: went confronted by a large crowd what would you rather have, a knife or bazooka?
11:47 PM veegee: XXCoder it's all about the honing
11:48 PM veegee: put new edge on it with a waterstone or oilstone, but it must be finished with a very very fine abrasive like a leather strop and polishing compound for that razor sharp edege\
11:48 PM veegee: edge*
11:49 PM veegee: Damn now my arm looks weird. I got carried away and shaved only one of my arms
11:49 PM veegee: Didn't cut myself once. It just glides on your skin if you hold it at the right angle
11:50 PM veegee: In any case, is there a technique or forklift attachment for transporting very long pieces of lumber/metal parallel to your path of travel?
11:51 PM veegee: That is, if they're on a rack, I can't just pick them up with the front forks and get them out the door because they're wider than the door. So they have to be parallel to the forklift
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.bulmor.com/us/sideloader-trucks/sideloader-forklift/
11:51 PM XXCoder: this sucky sharper https://www.amazon.com/KitchenIQ-50009-Stage-Knife-Sharpener/dp/B001CQTLJM/ veegee
11:54 PM veegee: XXCoder my parents have that
11:54 PM veegee: I HATE those kind
11:54 PM XXCoder: whats good one thats easy to use
11:54 PM veegee: https://www.amazon.com/Tormek-Cooled-Precision-Sharpening-System/dp/B01FHLUMSQ
11:54 PM veegee: Any bench grinder will do with the right wheel
11:55 PM veegee: The most important part is holding the knife at a consistent and correct angle
11:55 PM veegee: all along its curve
11:55 PM XXCoder: wow bit overpriced for my blood
11:55 PM veegee: Yeah that's just an example. A cheapo dollar store bench grinder will work just fine