#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 20 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:24 AM CaptHindsight: 'Hello, Car Warranty Scam Hotline, How can I help You?"
01:04 AM veegee: I've been cutting my own hair for the past 6 years
01:05 AM veegee: I'm finally pretty damn good at it
01:05 AM veegee: Can nail a slick fade, crew cut, high and tight, etc.
01:05 AM veegee: Just bought an Oster classic 76. Been using an Oster fast feed. Great addition to the collection
01:06 AM veegee: No idea why I'm telling y'all this but what the hell, who else can I tell?
01:06 AM veegee: I was the best groomed man when all the barber shops were shut down lol it was pretty funny
01:07 AM veegee: Everyone was afraid to go on camera during video meetings
01:23 AM Deejay: moin
01:45 AM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
02:19 AM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
02:28 AM CaptHindsight: flowbee and robot arm + LCNC
02:58 AM jymmmm: A couple of the snow clips came off the roof, what I can't understand is why didn't the silicone them on the bottom only around the outside edges... https://i.imgur.com/zsG62LM.jpg
04:28 AM Levitator: Excuse me, homies.
04:29 AM Levitator: This is more of a metalworking question, but I was wondering; what tool are you supposed to use to put a 2mm-wide notch in the perimeter of a 13mm hole, in sheet metal?
04:55 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:57 AM Levitator: I cannot find the sheet metal nibblorz.
04:59 AM JT-Cave: https://www.greenlee.com/us/en/keyway-nibbler-punch-720
04:59 AM JT-Cave: that's what I use for 30mm push button hole notches
04:59 AM Levitator: Ahhhhhh. Keyway!
05:03 AM Levitator: These prices are madness. Maybe I can just find a 2mm file to start with.
05:16 AM Tom_L: morning
05:18 AM Levitator: Tiem 4 slepes.
05:25 AM Tom_L: 42F High 56
05:41 AM XXCoder: "getting" hmmmmm
05:41 AM XXCoder: you sure you didnt mispell "got"? ;)
05:45 AM Loetmichel: indeed
08:14 AM Loetmichel: hehe, lucky me. 6 hours of desinging a part in CAD... remembered to save it first time.. then did an action which caused the CAD to crash... *phew* *wipes cold sweat off* ... that could have ended nasty... :)
08:24 AM JavaBean: clicking the save icon every minute or two is SOO FSCK'N IMPORTANT... there should be a keyboard based "quickaction" or maybe an automated save feature
08:29 AM Loetmichel: JavaBean: it has both. only works when you saved once though because it has to know where to (auto-)save to on a new file
08:30 AM JavaBean: atleast it isn't toated as a "smart" or "inteligent" feature
09:38 AM unterhaus_: I suppose this is one superiority of the f360 spyware model
09:40 AM unterhaus_: I'm waiting for the memory of where I put my mesa cards to kick in
09:43 AM Thorhian: I might have to buy a year of f360 spyware. FreeCAD's CAM isn't good enough for working effectively IMO yet, and I would like to use my milling machine now instead of later lol.
09:44 AM unterhaus_: free version doesn't work for you?
09:44 AM Thorhian: It's kind of sad that it's basically the cheapest decent CAM software out there...
09:44 AM unterhaus_: they did screw up the cam
09:44 AM Loetmichel: unterhaus_: its actaully offline useable
09:44 AM Loetmichel: only needs a key and works well
09:45 AM Loetmichel: and does everything i want from it.
09:45 AM Thorhian: What are you using Loetmichel?
09:45 AM Loetmichel: no tool library though or builtin CAM
09:45 AM Loetmichel: MoI 3d
09:45 AM Thorhian: Ah, no CAM. Useless to me then.
09:45 AM Loetmichel: for CAM i use CAMPBAM
09:45 AM Loetmichel: -p
09:45 AM Loetmichel: CAMBAM
09:46 AM Loetmichel: can use any DXF or STL to make milling paths
09:46 AM Loetmichel: and also really cheap
09:47 AM Loetmichel: works well enough for me to make commercial enclosures
09:47 AM Thorhian: It seems severely lacking for 3D tool paths, which I need... Fusion it is.
09:48 AM unterhaus_: did you see the toolpath excursions someone posted here the other day?
09:49 AM unterhaus_: f360 has some problems with that
09:49 AM Loetmichel: yeah, fusion is perfectly viable if you dont care what others do with your IP or need to be sure you can still access the stuff in 10 years
09:49 AM unterhaus_: apparently their file format includes a solidworks file
09:50 AM unterhaus_: it's really a zip file
09:50 AM Thorhian: Oh I am aware of the cloud crud Loetmichel. I really don't want to use it but what other comparable options are there that are remotely in the same price range? Also, I have no intention of using their non-commercial free license.
09:50 AM unterhaus_: maybe now people discovered that they will fix the issue
09:50 AM Loetmichel: unterhaus_: IIRC they have disabled anything but cloud storage in their free version recently? or did to get that wrong?
09:51 AM Loetmichel: save options i mean
09:51 AM unterhaus_: yeah, but Thorhian is talking about paying
09:51 AM Thorhian: I want to make things to sell, so I kind of have to pay up.
09:51 AM Loetmichel: ah, overlooked that bit
09:51 AM unterhaus_: the cost is currently nothing if you are making money with it
09:53 AM unterhaus_: also, 3 year is a discount, might be worth thinking about
09:53 AM Thorhian: There seems to be a couple of smart people working on path algorithm stuff involving Freecad, and I plan on chipping in when I can, but I do need something that works well in the mean time. 1 Year is already good enough for me, but Ill look into it.
09:54 AM Thorhian: But yeah, buying a subscription from Autodesk feels like making a deal with the devil, but at this point it's kind of neccesary.
10:09 AM htasta: unterhaus_: did you mean my fucked up tool path in F360? because that was on me as I had it set to 0.1mm tolerance lol
10:09 AM htasta: dunno if it was you or Tom(?) who suggested such a thing and it turned out that was the case :D
10:10 AM roycroft: i suppose i should start working on a schematic diagram of my cnc controller circuit
10:10 AM htasta: now it's just jerky movement on the machine when I go fast but CAM is nice now
10:11 AM roycroft: actually i need to set up a git repository for the project first
10:11 AM roycroft: i never even got that far last time i worked on it
10:11 AM roycroft: i just dreamed and bought a bunch of hardware
10:13 AM roycroft: oh, i do have a repository
10:14 AM roycroft: and i only set it up five days ago
10:14 AM roycroft: i must be getting really old to have forgotten that so soon :)
10:44 AM CaptHindsight: anyone know what happened in #hazzy? There was a big purge and the channel is just about empty now
11:00 AM unterhaus_: htasta, that's great
11:11 AM jymmmm: What's #hazzy ?
11:11 AM jymmmm: A couple of the snow clips came off the roof, what I can't understand is why didn't the silicone them on the bottom only around the outside edges... https://i.imgur.com/zsG62LM.jpg any ideas?
11:17 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: qtpyvcp channel
11:18 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: ah, ty
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: not sure what you are asking about with the clips
11:19 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: They only siliconed around the edges, not on the bottom. I was wondering why someone would do that?
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: probably figured that would be good enough to keep the water out
11:20 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: These are to hold back the snow load so it doesn't just slide off and hit you in the head.
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: were they held in pace only by the silicone?
11:21 AM jymmmm: yes, but only around the edges
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: so that they could be replaced easier :)
11:22 AM jymmmm: They even have a grid on the bottom I'd suspect for better adhesion even.
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: willful ignorance, less silicone = lower installation cost, last long enough for the warranty and not more, etc etc
11:24 AM jymmmm: Ok, so it's just not me thinking that.
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: have you ever met people that care more about profit and themselves than even their children and grandchildren etc?
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: they don't see themselves as part of a group but rather as isolated and must collect and consume as much as possible to win some imagined prize?
11:25 AM roycroft: or maybe seen such a person on television?
11:25 AM roycroft: on the news
11:25 AM roycroft: every single day
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: or they may see themselves as part of a small group and only are concerned with those close to them or provide them with praise
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: more silicone = job lasts longer
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: hmm how does this make me more $ and more power
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: it do not, so i don't do it
11:28 AM * roycroft wonders why folks like mesanet and gecko don't publish cad drawings of their hardware, for layout and wiring purposes
11:28 AM roycroft: drawing all of this from scratch is a lot of work
11:28 AM roycroft: and i'm sure i'm not the only person who has done this
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: "so just silicone around the edges, I'd use tape if I could get away with it"
11:28 AM jymmmm: I was just dumbfounded, thought there "must have been a specific reason NOT to adhere the bottom" I wasn't aware of
11:28 AM JT-Cave: the layout is in the manuals
11:29 AM roycroft: yes, but a dwg or dfx would be nice
11:29 AM roycroft: so i can just drop it into my drawings
11:30 AM roycroft: and i'm not picking on mesanet
11:30 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: required extra resources
11:30 AM roycroft: it's a problem with most electronics
11:30 AM roycroft: but they already have the cad drawings for manufacturing the pcbs etc.
11:31 AM roycroft: it wouldn't be much work to clean them up to distribute for layout
11:31 AM roycroft: just turn off the layers that don't need to be shared
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: yes, i kind of chuckled when CAD apps started touting PCB design since 3d models were not exactly common for many parts
11:32 AM roycroft: leave the layers with the pcb outline, mounting holes, and connectors
11:32 AM roycroft: and jumpers/switches
11:32 AM roycroft: turn off everything else
11:32 AM roycroft: the wheel has been invented countless times over millennia, though
11:33 AM roycroft: so i guess it can be invented once again
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: likely racehorses
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: but it is pronounced resources
11:33 AM roycroft: i'm trying to figure out what size enclosure i need for my electronics, and to do that i really need to lay everything out so i can figure out how it fits best
11:34 AM roycroft: and for that i need cad drawings of the important parts
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: I hand sketch, round up board dimensions then add extra space like 1.5X the area
11:36 AM roycroft: the drawings in the mesanet manuals are exactly as i described, btw
11:36 AM CaptHindsight: not fun to under-size
11:36 AM roycroft: so the work has been done
11:36 AM roycroft: all that would be needed is to export a dfx of them
11:37 AM CaptHindsight: maybe they have them available if you ask vs just post everything for the shy or timid?
11:38 AM roycroft: perhaps
11:38 AM roycroft: and mesa would probably be more willing to share than generic vendors of other stuff
11:38 AM roycroft: as i said, i'm not picking on them
11:38 AM roycroft: they're just an example
11:42 AM roycroft: and to their credit, the drawings in their manuals are dimensioned, so that saves all the measuring, which puts them ahead of most
11:43 AM CaptHindsight: should only take minutes to create some 3d blocks to represent them
11:43 AM CaptHindsight: since you have board outlines in pdf format
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: something like draw a rectangle, dimension the sides, extrude by desired height, save as, move on to next project
11:48 AM roycroft: yeah, it's not heaps of work, but it's still work :)
11:49 AM roycroft: it's more than that
11:49 AM roycroft: i need the mounting holes to be located precisely
11:49 AM roycroft: and all the switches/connectors located on the boards so i can draw a schematic
11:50 AM roycroft: but it's certainly not something that's going to take me a week to do
11:50 AM roycroft: it goes pretty quickly
11:52 AM * JT-Shop has the parts modified so back to the customer
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: I only use mechanical CAD for electrical for placement
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: not for actual wiring/harnesses
12:02 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Didn't you say that silicone doesn't stick to cured silicone?
12:06 PM CaptHindsight: not usually, the bonds terminate after curing
12:07 PM CaptHindsight: so you don't get much crosslinking but there still might be some adhesion
12:08 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: ok, ty
12:11 PM jymmmm: Mini spy cam, comments? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CXB52LC
12:11 PM CaptHindsight: "It is recommended that any old silicone is removed. While new, freshly applied silicone can be applied & will bond to old silicone – the bond isn’t as strong as if it were applied to a clean surface."
12:12 PM jymmmm: Ok, I'll just place the clips 6" higher
12:13 PM CaptHindsight: clean and prep
12:14 PM jymmmm: slippery roof, I'm chicken to be on hands and knees up there as it is. I'll take a scotch bright pad with me and scuff off the grime
12:14 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: is it cloud ready?
12:15 PM jymmmm: internet cloud?
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://lifehacker.com/build-your-own-tiny-wi-fi-camera-5893516
12:16 PM jymmmm: oh, nah, I'm not interested in cloud at all. just local recording primarily
12:17 PM roycroft: "You can connect the camera hotspot, but you must nearby the spy camera to view through app, too far away will disconnect."
12:17 PM roycroft: do you want something with documentation like that?
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/ESP32-CAM-Bluetooth-Camera-Module-Development/dp/B07S5PVZKV/ref=asc_df_B07S5PVZKV/
12:17 PM Thorhian: Does anyone here have any experiance with toroidal insert end mills?
12:18 PM jymmmm: I'm interested in long and loop recording to uSD card, remote access is just a bonus
12:19 PM roycroft: get a deer camera
12:23 PM jymmmm: I ordered it.
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdPNhMfxI38
12:24 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Wanted something discreet. Gong to place in the front window and see how that works out
12:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.fieldandstream.com/trail-cameras-capture-pranksters-dressed-as-monsters-santa/
12:30 PM roycroft: deer cams usually have a cammo finish
12:31 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: What do you use to draw wiring/block diagrams?
12:31 PM CaptHindsight: I got some of the camo spray paint, it only came out only one solid color
12:31 PM roycroft: if you're in the desert you only need one color
01:18 PM veegee: Abrasive blasting (crushed glass) an appropriate way to clean before welding?
02:08 PM Thorhian: Does anyone know if there is any CAM software that is comparable to fusion 360 for 3D milling and below and around the same price (for a year's sub) or cheaper?
02:15 PM veegee: Very useful video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlDd3jkcxoQ
02:15 PM veegee: On LiFePO4 chemistry
02:25 PM FinboySlick: Thorhian: HSMWorks is what Fusion360 uses internally if I remember correctly. It's also available for Solidworks but I doubt that is cheaper than Fusion360.
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: didn't solidworks just start to offer some cloud based hobby version?
02:26 PM FinboySlick: Could be, haven't been keeping up.
02:27 PM roycroft: it's something i would have ignored, as with all things cloudy
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.makerstore.com.au/blog/solidworks-free-12-months-maker-license/
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: expired
02:29 PM FinboySlick: roycroft: I'm with you there.
02:31 PM FinboySlick: Pretty sure we'll be leasing air before long.
02:31 PM Thorhian: It sucks that you can't just buy HSMWorks by itself for $400 or $500, along with offering some sort of standard API that can easily be interfaced to another CAD program besides Solidworks.
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.langmuirsystems.com/pro plasma cutter without the plasma cutter for $2500
02:32 PM FinboySlick: Thorhian: We're actually lucky they kept Solidworks compatibility.
02:33 PM Thorhian: When it comes to CAD/CAM and the larger manufacturing industry, it just seems to be some "boy's club" and they have no interest innovation for the smaller people.
02:33 PM Thorhian: I bet FinboySlick lol
02:34 PM FinboySlick: Thorhian: It's a trend as a whole. Comes out of our messed up economic policies. Money gets created at the top so all the big fishes get it first and use it to eat the smaller fishes.
02:34 PM CaptHindsight: Non-trickle down economics, they just keep forgetting to put the NON in front is all
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: NO not malicious
02:35 PM FinboySlick: In the golden days of open-source, there was actually some success reversing that. But that's mostly fading too now.
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: they are conquering open source slowly
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: linux anyway
02:36 PM Thorhian: It's just weird though, since in the FDM 3D printing world there has been a ton of work to enable people to use that tech, along with Resin printing solutions. Subtractive manufacturing though? Not much.
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: well NEW seems to be the attraction
02:37 PM FinboySlick: Thorhian: That's because it's new. give the industry time.
02:37 PM FinboySlick: They'll eat that up too.
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: why those posts keep poping up about getting LCNC to run on microcontrollers
02:38 PM Thorhian: FDM and SLA 3D printing isn't new. It flourished because patents ran out. I guess they are new compared to manufacturing overall, but it went from really closed down to practically blown open.
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: NEW means NEW income, not NEW is better, unless better means income
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: NEW are the controllers
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: vs OLD PC's
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: and much of the 3D printer software and firmware is crap, some is getting better
02:40 PM FinboySlick: Being disruptive of industry used to be the strategy: Change the paradigm and then you can bypass the established giants. Now it:s Be disruptive so the giant notices you and sell for a gazillion dollars.
02:41 PM Thorhian: Are you refering to running LCNC on stuff like RPi's CaptHindsight?
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: I'm contrasting things like marlin on a *dunio vs LCNC on a PC
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: if you notice the makers all give up after the first gen of the tech, FDM/FFF and now SLA/DLP where it makes a limited range of products vs extend to making finished products
02:44 PM Thorhian: And yet Marlin and the other firmwares get by quite well for the purposes of basically controlling a sophisticated hot glue gun. Machining is a different beast capable of more precision, so it's natural to need more powerful hardware than a cheap AVR controller or tiny ARM controller.
02:44 PM Thorhian: Also, what do you mean by that second statement CaptHindsight?
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: very few pushed FFF into making finished products with the printers
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: it's mostly toys/figures
02:46 PM Thorhian: Ah yes I see what you mean. That I do understand. I thought you were talking about the printers themselves lol
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cNeAOpR-Ws here is someone that actually went further
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: FDM printed forming tools
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: for sheet metal
02:47 PM FinboySlick: Heh, was watching that yesterday actually.
02:47 PM FinboySlick: Pretty neat stuff.
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: I have had very limited success with handing professionals printers and materials...
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: i have to make everything and show them how to use it
02:49 PM Thorhian: Yeah, that is definitely cool. I have personally used my printer for making things I actually use along with prototyping stuff (like the keyboard cases I want to make
02:49 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Curse of being the smartest person in the room.
02:51 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: more like this.. https://www.getwiringdiagram.com/wirimg/honda-atv-atc200x-electrical-wiring-diagram.jpg
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: I hate drawings like those
02:52 PM jymmmm: JT You were right, this is the very first time I've ever come across silicone coming loose from something after years.
02:52 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: why do you think I asked :)
02:53 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: necessary evil
02:54 PM Thorhian: I also used my printer to make some temporary parts for my milling machine, and I printed an MPCNC before then. Having a 3D printer when you actually have the vision to make more than little toys is quite awesome.
02:55 PM Thorhian: So yeah, 3D printing was a fad for a while, but there are definitely still makers out there using them to do awesome stuff.
02:55 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Hmmm... https://cloud.smartdraw.com/
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: https://www.edn.com/funniest-schematic-ever/
02:59 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: woohoo, magic smoke!!!
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: have you ever seen a glue gun printer that combines thermoplastics and silicones? or even any two types of different fluids?
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: there were some that used an thermal inkjet to color the parts after printing each layer
03:00 PM Thorhian: I have not, only one or the other.
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: how about printing the rigid portion of a part and then overprinting with soft
03:02 PM FinboySlick: Are you trying to print a girlfriend again CaptHindsight?
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: like overmolding
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: i said rigid not frigid
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: did you see the SNL sketch of the morning show from Quebec?
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://globalnews.ca/video/7404809/montrealers-react-to-snls-bonjour-hi-media-skit
03:06 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005LY2HHO
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.globaltv.com/shows/saturday-night-live/video/canadian-news-show/c5e61a4c-1149-11eb-b272-0242ac110003/
03:09 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: No. I don't think we get SNL here and I don't watch TV. From what that clip is showing, it's pretty typical.
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: 3dp sex toys are popular
03:10 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: hopefully in safe silicone
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: speaking of which, how has the cover to the HVAC held up?
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: silicone not sex toy
03:15 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: surprisingly well. Probably some humidity cause degration to the paper wiring diagram inside, but can't expact anything differetn after 20+ years
03:22 PM ericceller: is glxgears really a good latency test?
03:30 PM ericceller: doesn't seem to like running in the background
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: ericceller: the biggest hit to latency tends to opening FF and playing a youtube
03:32 PM ericceller: I'm seeing that
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: ericceller: what are the scores so far?
03:33 PM ericceller: 21 microseconds
03:33 PM Deejay: gn8
03:34 PM ericceller: using the histogram now, I think it was up just over 30microseconds with latency test
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: ericceller: on a base thread with x86-PC?
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: have you already turned off power management, virtualization, speed stepping, etc in BIOS?
03:35 PM ericceller: core i5 dell optiplex runing rt preempt
03:36 PM ericceller: not yet
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: might drop even lower then
03:36 PM ericceller: servo system, thinking about not bothering
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
03:37 PM ericceller: virtualization doesn't help
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: most PC's are fine with servo threads
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: every now and then I find a Dell, HP or similar that won't let you kill power management and latency is very very poor
03:38 PM ericceller: if I didn't do something stupid with my mesa card
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: 30us is 10-15x more than you need
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: 1-2KHz servo thread
03:40 PM ericceller: major reorg around here, so it's not too surprising it's hiding right now
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: same here, always after some sorting and shelving
03:41 PM ericceller: I probably put it somewhere safe
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: they say it is supposed to be easier to find things after but not for me
03:41 PM ericceller: "safe"
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: that is the worst
03:41 PM ericceller: I found the bag it came in, bad sign
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: i stopped doing that in any out of the way place, safe now is right out in the open
03:42 PM ericceller: but I think it might be mounted on a din rail
04:03 PM roycroft: we might get our first frost this weekend
04:03 PM roycroft: which would be slightly later than average, but still sooner than it's been for the past few years
04:04 PM Thorhian: We might get our first snow :D
04:05 PM Thorhian: Also, just got my package of diodes. You need those to protect a Mesa board like my 7i76 to use stuff like mechanical relays and pneumatic solenoids with it right?
04:06 PM roycroft: optoisolators are always a good idea
04:06 PM veegee: ^ yes
04:07 PM veegee: always always in anything that you want to be reliable
04:07 PM JT-Shop: 10 more minutes and my parts will be out of the powder coat oven and I'm knocking off early
04:07 PM roycroft: wow
04:07 PM Thorhian: Oh. I don't have optoisolators. Should I get some for my 12V GPIO stuff in general, or only for relays/solenoids?
04:07 PM roycroft: veegee is agreeing with me
04:07 PM Thorhian: XD
04:07 PM veegee: I agree with you a lot
04:07 PM roycroft: next thing you know dogs and cats will cohabitate peacefully
04:08 PM Thorhian: "DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER!"
04:08 PM veegee: We agree on /most/ things.
04:08 PM veegee: As always, the disagreements make the most noise, that's all
04:08 PM JT-Shop: lol my neighbor had a heard cat that following a flock of chickens around and if any chicks strayed from the group it would heard them back
04:08 PM Thorhian: But seriously, should I just abandon the idea of using a diode in series with my pneumatic solenoid and 7i76?
04:08 PM JT-Shop: herd even
04:09 PM veegee: Unrelated: I'm going to weld hydraulic cylinders to my forklift so it can lift itself up off the ground haha
04:09 PM veegee: without a service jack
04:09 PM veegee: I have some cheap ones lying around. Well maybe not weld, but bolt in place with very big, strong bolts
04:10 PM roycroft: get yourself a big hot air balloon and lash it to the top of the forklift
04:10 PM roycroft: whenever you need to levitate the forklift direct the output of your irc screen towards the balloon
04:10 PM roycroft: and you'll get a free lift
04:12 PM roycroft: i wish i could do something constructive with all the incoming robocalls i'm getting
04:13 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Easy, don't answer the phone.
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: sure i heard of cats... old joke
04:15 PM unterhaus: I think you should get a helicopter to lift that forklift
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: last year we got lots of snow on Halloween
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: field IO of the 7i76 to a coil in a pneumatic solenoid?
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: not much current available from those outputs
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: Maximum output load is 300 mA.
04:22 PM roycroft: the county elections office still have not noted my ballot as being received
04:22 PM roycroft: for the sake of making sure my vote counts, i'm concerned about that
04:23 PM roycroft: but almost as importantly, the day after they note it as received, democrats will stop calling me begging for my vote
04:23 PM roycroft: republicans/libertarians/constitution party won't stop
04:23 PM roycroft: they don't check to see who has already voted
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: diode across the coil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://resources.altium.com/p/using-flyback-diodes-relays-prevents-electrical-noise-your-circuits
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/100134/why-is-there-a-diode-connected-in-parallel-to-a-relay-coil
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: register as a pity party or tupperware
04:25 PM roycroft: is that a diode in your circuit or are you just happy fry me?
04:26 PM roycroft: that's actually a big part of the problem
04:26 PM roycroft: if i were a registered democrat the republicans would not call me
04:26 PM roycroft: but i'm registered with a minor party (pacific green)
04:27 PM roycroft: and they don't seem to get that green party members would be generally less inclined to vote for republicans than democrats would
04:27 PM roycroft: it's binary to them
04:27 PM roycroft: "not registered democrat" means "maybe one of ours"
04:27 PM unterhaus: I would drive anything mechanical through solid state relay
04:28 PM roycroft: ssrs are kind of scary
04:28 PM roycroft: i always put a contactor in front of one if the relay is carrying any appreciable amount of current
04:36 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gf7r1 Party Political Broadcast, their final episode
04:37 PM roycroft: i voted slightly silly this year
04:37 PM roycroft: the silly part have gone over the top
04:39 PM * JT-Shop tries to grasp the fundamentals of an asyncio event loop in his head
04:48 PM jymmmm: an event loop that can occure at any time?
04:49 PM veegee: CaptHindsight if you're using a flyback diode, make sure it's Schottky
04:50 PM veegee: standard (or even "fast") silicon diodes aren't nearly as fast as they need to be to protect your MOSFET's body diode or other things
04:50 PM veegee: also need TVS diodes and MOVs and the standard stuff
04:50 PM jymmmm: Hey ve7it
04:50 PM jymmmm: veegee: any high amperage ones?
04:50 PM ve7it: jymmmm, !
04:50 PM veegee: roycroft why scary?
04:51 PM veegee: and yeah any relay coil definitely needs a flyback Schottky diode to protect the IGBTs/MOSFETs
04:51 PM veegee: jymmmm any high amperage what? Schottky diodes?
04:51 PM jymmmm: yeah
04:52 PM jymmmm: veegee: 10A
04:52 PM veegee: Yeah 10A is nothing, lots of TO-220 format ones available that can handle way more than that. Let me link you to some
04:53 PM veegee: jymmmm https://www.mouser.ca/Semiconductors/Discrete-Semiconductors/Diodes-Rectifiers/Schottky-Diodes-Rectifiers/_/N-ax1mj?P=1z0z73r
04:53 PM veegee: Not a fan of mouser, but easy to find parts. Their peak forward burst current is much higher than their continuous current
04:54 PM veegee: So they can handle the short-lived huge surge current induced by the coils
04:55 PM * flyback bites veegee
04:55 PM jymmmm: veegee: this should work.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pieces-Schottky-Barrier-Diode-15A-45V-Rectifier-solar-panel-r6-15SQ045-A15/264091157257
04:55 PM veegee: They are more sensitive to static shock than the old, slow, rugged silicon diodes though. Just protect them against that and they'll do great
04:55 PM veegee: jymmmm for relays, those will be fine
04:55 PM jymmmm: veegee: it's just to prevent a charge from discharging the battery when not connected to 120VAC
04:55 PM veegee: For switching motors with PWM, stay away from DO (diode outline) types
04:55 PM jymmmm: charger*
04:56 PM veegee: then don't use schottky
04:56 PM veegee: Schottky have high reverse leakage current
04:56 PM veegee: For your application, use low reverse current silicon diodes
04:56 PM veegee: And any decent battery charger (like the NOCO ones) already have that feature built in
04:57 PM veegee: So if you have a good charger, you don't need to do this
04:58 PM veegee: flyback I will make every attempt possible to use the engineering term "flyback" in conversation from now on :D
04:58 PM veegee: I was building a flyback converter the other day. I really love the flyback topology
04:59 PM veegee: Oh and flyback transformers! Those are great fun!
05:00 PM veegee: jymmmm but note that diodes have a forward voltage drop, so your charger will not be aware of this and undercharge the battery. So don't use this mechanism, it will not work
05:00 PM flyback: yep
05:00 PM flyback: I wat to make a musical flyback
05:00 PM veegee: The forward voltage is a function of the current, but there is a cutoff. So your battery will not receive its saturation charge. And for lead acid, that's terribru
05:00 PM flyback: mabye next year
05:01 PM veegee: For li-ion, that's great because high voltage degrades the cell faster
05:01 PM veegee: So jymmmm DO NOT stick a diode in series there, it'll screw everything up
05:02 PM flyback: veegee,
05:02 PM flyback: https://youtu.be/bMkgQshDdcI?t=31
05:02 PM flyback: OWNS YOUR "CANUCK"..............................................CANUCK, CANUCK!
05:02 PM veegee: flyback built one already
05:02 PM flyback: NICE
05:02 PM flyback: just remember
05:02 PM flyback: USE
05:02 PM flyback: A
05:02 PM flyback: AUDIO ISOLATION
05:02 PM flyback: TRANSFORMER
05:03 PM flyback: before you plug in your $1000 phone etc
05:03 PM flyback: some guy fried his ipod from inductive kickback
05:03 PM flyback: $10-$20 device
05:03 PM flyback: they sell them as ground loop isolators for cars etc
05:05 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEeWtBAE5LY
05:05 PM flyback: that takes way more than a flyback and 555
05:05 PM flyback: $$$$
05:57 PM Thorhian: Is it okay to directly wire up homing switches (NC configuration) to the mesa board? I figure it would be.
05:57 PM JT-Cave: yep
05:58 PM Tom_L: i did
05:59 PM Tom_L: wasn't happy about it but i did anyway
05:59 PM Tom_L: chilly misty day here all day
06:00 PM JT-Cave: not too bad here today overcast mist but not too cold
06:00 PM JT-Cave: geez they have already picked out the next spoke lathe to convert and I'm not quite done with this one
06:01 PM XXCoder: fun
06:01 PM JT-Cave: XXCoder, you having any luck on the job market?
06:01 PM XXCoder: nope sadly
06:02 PM JT-Cave: darn that sucks
06:02 PM * JT-Cave goes to take the parts out of the powder coat oven after flashing them off
06:02 PM XXCoder: today i went to compoany that doesnt know what ADA laws is
06:02 PM XXCoder: they didnt provide a interpeter. dammit
06:05 PM roycroft: they know
06:05 PM roycroft: they do not care
06:05 PM roycroft: everyone knows
06:06 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, they've got confidence in you
06:08 PM JT-Cave: actually when I was a plant manager I didn't know the ADA laws...
06:09 PM Tom_L: is that part of the 'poster pack' you'er supposed to have?
06:09 PM JT-Cave: maybe now a days, that's been quite some time ago for me
06:10 PM JT-Cave: I can't even remember the posters, something about minimum wage and osha and discrimination maybe
06:11 PM Tom_L: do any of them really get followed?
06:12 PM JT-Cave: I tried to do the right thing at all times if I knew what it was
06:13 PM roycroft: today you would know, jt-cave
06:13 PM JT-Cave: osha came into our plant in Harahan and told the owner he needed to design out the noise in the nail headers as if he had all the money in the world
06:13 PM JT-Cave: once they fined us for the bathroom dividers being the wrong height lol
06:13 PM roycroft: it took a while, but the ada has been the law of the land for a generation now
06:14 PM JT-Cave: I'm a generation...
06:14 PM roycroft: you're two generations :)
06:14 PM JT-Cave: lol
06:15 PM * roycroft can get away with that because he's old too
06:15 PM Tom_L: older than dirt?
06:15 PM roycroft: older than some dirt
06:15 PM * JT-Cave was born in the territory of Alaska... not even a state yet
06:15 PM roycroft: much younger than much dirt
06:15 PM Tom_L: you listen long enough and can usually figure how old someone is
06:15 PM roycroft: i predate the space age
06:15 PM JT-Cave: not a state for 6 years
06:17 PM roycroft: there aren't many people alive who were born in a us territory that's attached to north america
06:17 PM roycroft: probably 99+% of them are from alaska
06:17 PM JT-Cave: nope
06:17 PM roycroft: there may be a few really really old arizonans
06:18 PM roycroft: but they would have to be 108 to have been born in the arizona territory
06:18 PM JT-Cave: when did Arizona become a state?
06:18 PM roycroft: 1912
06:18 PM JT-Cave: oh yea not much chance for that
06:18 PM roycroft: and it was the 48th state
06:19 PM roycroft: there's proably like 3 people alive who were born in the arizona territory
06:19 PM roycroft: at most
06:19 PM JT-Cave: I was born in a quansat hut on Kodiak island
06:19 PM roycroft: yet that state is chock full of old people now
06:19 PM JT-Cave: wow that's impressive
06:20 PM JT-Cave: my mom's aunt is still alive I think she has to be over 100 by now
06:20 PM roycroft: i was born in indiana
06:20 PM roycroft: which is pretty boring
06:20 PM roycroft: except my parents lived in illinois at the time
06:20 PM roycroft: and did not have a car
06:21 PM JT-Cave: walked across the border?
06:21 PM roycroft: when my mother went into labor they had to walk across the state line to get her to the hospital
06:21 PM roycroft: yup
06:21 PM roycroft: so not quite so boring
06:22 PM roycroft: i was too young to remeber, of course, but they could see the state line from their apartment
06:22 PM roycroft: it wan't much of a walk
06:23 PM JT-Cave: when my dad got home from the Pacific he called to apply for a job at the FAA the interviewer asked him if he could type he said yes how many words a minute do I need to type
06:23 PM JT-Cave: he bought an underwood from a pawn shop and got on the train to kansas city and taught himself how to type
06:23 PM JT-Cave: I'm like him in that way
06:24 PM JT-Cave: he was a barefoot kid from rural North Carolina
06:24 PM JT-Cave: time to check on the hens
06:25 PM jymmmm: Are we picturing you wearing overalls and a straw hat?
06:30 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
06:32 PM Tom_L: andypugh, how did you handle the gtk2sourceview lib in the buster iso?
06:32 PM andypugh: It is backported on our server
06:32 PM Tom_L: it was lacking in buster for the longest time
06:33 PM Tom_L: i was trying to update from 2.8.0 pre1 to the release
06:33 PM Tom_L: getting errors on that
06:33 PM Tom_L: not from the iso
06:34 PM Tom_L: i need to spend some more time on it
06:35 PM andypugh: Well, it is python-gtksourceview that is backported, and a couple of other things: http://www.linuxcnc.org/dists/buster/base/binary-amd64/
06:36 PM Tom_L: would i be better off building it from source over trying that update?
06:36 PM Tom_L: from the pre release...
07:17 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: I wuz desinerging flyback circuits when you wuz in baby pants!
07:17 PM Tom_L: damn this builds alot faster than on the rpi4 :)
07:25 PM CaptHindsight: IF I was going to build for the Rpi I'd cross compile on x86
07:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://wiki.debian.org/Arm64Qemu
07:29 PM Tom_L: meh, it's just time
08:17 PM Tom_L: ok the build seems good
08:51 PM Tom_L: how do you prevent loading the default ngc file on startup?
09:03 PM jdh: open_file=""
09:04 PM Tom_L: what section does that go in?
09:04 PM Tom_L: it's currently not in the ini
09:05 PM jdh: can't get to my machine from here. I thnk it was in the first section of mine
09:05 PM Tom_L: i'll find it
09:05 PM Tom_L: [DISPLAY]
09:06 PM Tom_L: that's kinda what i figured anyway
09:11 PM roycroft: grr
09:11 PM roycroft: two simultaneous robocalls again
09:11 PM roycroft: i'm not answering either
09:12 PM Tom_L: i had a fax calling all night last night
09:13 PM roycroft: but there is hope
09:13 PM roycroft: My Ballot:
09:13 PM roycroft: November 3, 2020 General Election
09:13 PM roycroft: Your ballot was received on October 19, 2020.
09:13 PM roycroft: that ought to cut down on the calls starting tomorrow
09:13 PM Tom_L: last time i turned the fax on and got somebody's medical records
09:13 PM roycroft: i don't have a physical fax line any more
09:14 PM Tom_L: i called the sender and chewed them out for being irresponsible
09:14 PM Tom_L: HIPA etc
09:14 PM roycroft: i ported my fax number to a sip trunk that has efax support
09:14 PM roycroft: because it's $1.50/month
09:14 PM roycroft: vs. the $40 i was paying for the fax line
09:14 PM roycroft: and i can send a fax via a web interface
09:14 PM roycroft: and receive faxes in email
09:15 PM jdh: it's almost 2021. wtf sends faxes
09:15 PM roycroft: i get a handful per year
09:15 PM roycroft: and i send the occasional fax
09:15 PM roycroft: for $1.50/month it's worth keeping the number
09:15 PM Tom_L: jdh, hospitals etc
09:15 PM Tom_L: iirc doctors still use pagers
09:15 PM roycroft: i still have a pager
09:16 PM Tom_L: in some places
09:16 PM roycroft: my cell phone does not work in my house
09:16 PM roycroft: i hate cell phones anyway
09:16 PM roycroft: but i'm on-call
09:16 PM roycroft: and if my cell doesn't work in the house i need a pager
09:17 PM Tom_L: too much lead paint on the walls?
09:17 PM roycroft: radiant ceiling heat
09:17 PM roycroft: my house is a faraday cage
09:18 PM Tom_L: ok i should stop for tonight. the test pc is in a good known state now
09:19 PM Tom_L: with 2.8.0 installed on buster
09:19 PM roycroft: i'm going to start working on the schematic for my mill tonight
09:19 PM roycroft: i've made the drawings i need of the mesa cards, gecko drives, and power supplies
09:19 PM Tom_L: which geckos do you have?
09:20 PM roycroft: g201x
09:30 PM roycroft: spencer davis has died :(
11:16 PM unterhaus: I can use more than one ethernet mesa card in the same system, right?
11:41 PM pcw_home: unterhaus: yes you can use up to 4
11:41 PM unterhaus: great, thanks