#linuxcnc Logs

Oct 19 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM CaptHindsight: was not in the early docs
12:06 AM roycroft: but you're absolutely correct
12:06 AM roycroft: people these days do not comprehend why it matters to no be dependent on outside entities and to not hand all one's data over to any corporation who demands it
12:06 AM roycroft: it's not even that they don't care
12:06 AM roycroft: they don't comprehend why it could possibly matter
12:06 AM CaptHindsight: lack of learning from history
12:06 AM CaptHindsight: and if these lessons are avoided in schools, how do you become aware of the threats it poses?
12:08 AM roycroft: the cisco cameras i have are low resolution, but good enough for what i need to do
12:08 AM CaptHindsight: please stop dumbing stuff down
12:08 AM roycroft: i should probably just figure out what kind of lenses they need and get one
12:08 AM CaptHindsight: likely the easiest
12:08 AM roycroft: they're really old
12:09 AM roycroft: but that means they're able to be managed
12:09 AM CaptHindsight: so you just want a webcam with a wired or wireless connection?
12:09 AM roycroft: like i said, there's an rs-232 consoel interface
12:09 AM roycroft: and i can telnet to the thing once i set the ip address
12:09 AM roycroft: wired is fine
12:09 AM roycroft: it will live in the same room as my network rack
12:09 AM roycroft: but too far from a computer to use usb
12:10 AM CaptHindsight: I'll do a quick search through the paranoid sources
12:10 AM roycroft: the cisco cams have a poe interface
12:10 AM roycroft: and i have a bunch of cisco power injectors
12:10 AM roycroft: thanks
12:10 AM roycroft: i want to spend <$100 if at all possible
12:11 AM roycroft: and if i'm honest, probably have the cameras i've looked at can do what i need to do
12:11 AM roycroft: they just don't document it
12:11 AM roycroft: they talk about installing the app on the smartphone and connecting to the cloud
12:11 AM roycroft: when the "user manual" is 6 pages of pictures it's not very helpful
12:12 AM roycroft: ir would be nice, btw
12:12 AM roycroft: because i'll need to monitor the room when the lights are off
12:12 AM CaptHindsight: of course, camera module on an ARM board comes up
12:12 AM roycroft: right now, today, i just need to be able to monitor 3d printers without sitting in the same room
12:13 AM roycroft: down the road, i'll need to be able to monitor my cnc milling machine while i'm not in the same room
12:13 AM roycroft: that's all this is for
12:14 AM roycroft: the 3d printer folks i've talked to all say i should just get a rpi camera
12:14 AM CaptHindsight: i was looking for similar a few months ago and didn't find much
12:14 AM roycroft: the kind that comes with a short ribbon cable
12:14 AM roycroft: i guess i could do that, and get another rpi to mount on the wall
12:14 AM roycroft: but now we're pushing that $100 limit
12:15 AM roycroft: and it seems dumb to have to dedicate a rpi to a camera
12:15 AM roycroft: although i do have some old ones that i'm not using
12:15 AM roycroft: i wonder if the cameras work on the really old ones
12:19 AM XXCoder: can always livestream to youtube using a old phone
12:20 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/eoj1j2/cheap_diy_wifi_cameras_cloud_free_home_automation/
12:20 AM roycroft: i just found an old pi
12:20 AM roycroft: but i'm not sure what version it is
12:21 AM roycroft: it has a 2011 copyright on the pcb
12:21 AM roycroft: but the firs rpi (model b) came out in 2012
12:21 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: the esp modules are really cheap
12:22 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/8yb3td/whats_the_best_way_to_set_up_cloudfree_security/
12:23 AM CaptHindsight: openip.cam looks hijacked
12:24 AM roycroft: thanks for that link
12:24 AM CaptHindsight: https://wyze.com/wyze-cam.html were hacked with new firmware
12:24 AM roycroft: i'm just starting to watch the video, but the guy seems to understand the problem and claims to have a solution
12:25 AM XXCoder: openip domain expired and taken by someone else it loks like yeah
12:25 AM CaptHindsight: yes camera module on an ESP board
12:25 AM CaptHindsight: so similar to camera on an Rpi
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: ESP boards are a few $
12:31 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57atXHYR58U
12:36 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: there are ESP boards with ethernet if you want to avoid wifi
12:39 AM CaptHindsight: https://sautter.com/blog/ethernet-on-esp32-using-lan8720/ for adding your own DIY style
12:45 AM roycroft: hard wired is always more reliable than wireless, all other factors being equal
12:45 AM roycroft: but other than that i really don't care
12:45 AM CaptHindsight: needs power anyway
12:45 AM CaptHindsight: so you can get both over the same cable
12:45 AM roycroft: yes
12:46 AM roycroft: as i said, i have a bunch of cisco poe injectors
12:46 AM roycroft: so no problem
01:16 AM Deejay: moin
02:23 AM rs[m]: unreal: did you manage to post some photos of your wiring? I'm 99.73% sure you have "just" a wiring or gnd issue
04:33 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
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04:55 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:55 AM XXCoder: yo
06:06 AM Tom_L: morning
06:07 AM XXCoder: yo
07:53 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
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08:26 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
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09:06 AM Loetmichel: hehe, just ordered three intravenous infusion stands from a medical supplier... "You want to DO WHAT with them?" "Hanging cables for soldering plugs on the ends in series, why?" You could HEAR the puzzled look thru the phone ;)
09:21 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
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09:33 AM {HD}: Loetmichel: like IV bag holders? The ones with the wheels on the bottom so you can walk around with your butt hanging out...
09:43 AM unterhaus: I want to make some cables, not sure if I think I need an IV stand, but something to suspend the cable might be nice
09:43 AM unterhaus: in the U.S., anything medical costs much more than it should
10:05 AM Loetmichel: {HD}: yes
10:06 AM Loetmichel: unterhaus: 32 eur each
10:06 AM Loetmichel: not a fortune in my book, on the contrary. Cheaper than any contraption i could come up with
10:16 AM jymmmm: morning
10:17 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: how long are the cables?
10:19 AM roycroft: medical gear is not expensive in the us per se
10:19 AM roycroft: medical gear rated for medical use is expensive, though
10:22 AM unterhaus: 32 euro not bad
10:23 AM unterhaus: I could get one from amazon for about that
10:24 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Couldn't you just walk into a hospital and borrow one, then return it when you were done?
10:37 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: usually around 2m
10:37 AM Loetmichel: and no, we do series
10:37 AM Loetmichel: like Monitors that need special DP and HDMI and DVI cables, usb for keyboard and mouse and so on
10:42 AM unterhaus: I have seen people making cables for airplanes that are many meters long, never seen an IV stand used
10:43 AM jymmmm: unterhaus: Yeah, usually a really LOOOOONG workbench with pins/nails to layout all the wires until it's turned into a harness.
10:46 AM unterhaus: true, they have casing machines that can wrap them after they are connectorized
10:46 AM jymmmm: unterhaus: I've never seen/heard of a "casing machine", but I get it
10:46 AM unterhaus: I worked with someone who made aircraft cables in their garage, they had one of those machines
10:47 AM unterhaus: I don't know what they call them, they are woven
10:47 AM jymmmm: no clue
10:48 AM unterhaus: wire loom machine seems to be the most common name
10:48 AM roycroft: we had those when i was working at the luxury yacht factory decades ago
10:48 AM roycroft: the wiring department was interesting
10:49 AM roycroft: they had a big table that was up to 30m long for each model
10:49 AM roycroft: it had the wiring diagram painted on the table, with pegs inserted wherever the wiring harnass had a junction or turn or connector
10:51 AM roycroft: i never spent much time around there, but i know it took them days to build a wiring harness
10:51 AM roycroft: with a lot of walking back and forth pulling wires to match the layout
10:53 AM jymmmm: Oh, these are very cool.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQaB7WYRp8E
10:53 AM roycroft: i'm not sure why they made them that way - i do wiring on a much smaller scale, but i don't try to make one giant wiring harness for the whole job
10:54 AM roycroft: i make them more modular
10:54 AM roycroft: and when we're talking half million + dollar yachts (1980s prices) the cost of a few extra connectors really shouldn't have been a big deal
10:55 AM jymmmm: roycroft: Sometimes it's not cost, as much as a point of failure
10:56 AM jymmmm: bad connector, corrosion, etc
10:56 AM roycroft: sure
10:56 AM roycroft: but there are connectors that don't fail
10:57 AM roycroft: i do get that, though
10:57 AM roycroft: and these yachts do live in salt waer
10:57 AM roycroft: water
10:57 AM roycroft: i hate that ribbed rigid plastic wire loom stuff, btw
10:57 AM roycroft: i usually use the braided nylon stuff
10:58 AM roycroft: or braided stainless steel when the environment warrants it
10:58 AM roycroft: the split loom is useful when it's likely the wire harness will be altered
10:59 AM roycroft: but i still don't like it
10:59 AM roycroft: i don't like working with it and i don't like the look of it
11:03 AM jymmmm: roycroft: MAybe not, and it's hard on the fingers, but those tools I linked to make it awesome to work with. I never knew they existed
11:04 AM roycroft: yeah, those tools are nice if you have to use that stuff
11:04 AM roycroft: the hard split loom does protect the wires better than the braided nylon loom
11:05 AM roycroft: but when that kind of protection is needed then braided ss loom works
11:05 AM roycroft: it's a pain to deal with though
11:05 AM roycroft: inside a chassis/control panel i'll usually just used waxed string
11:06 AM roycroft: i'm not a fan of tie-wraps either
11:06 AM roycroft: they are sharp and cut fingers/wires
11:06 AM jymmmm: I have waxed string, but nobody uses it anymore
11:06 AM roycroft: all telcos everywhere use it
11:06 AM roycroft: but hardly anyone else
11:06 AM jymmmm: Telco's are becoming a thing of the past
11:07 AM roycroft: and telcos use velcro for fiber optic cables, which are making up a larger portion of their cable plant than copper, other than in the core of the central office
11:07 AM roycroft: but telcos abhor tie wraps
11:07 AM roycroft: using them is a good way to get kicked out of their facilities
11:21 AM roycroft: groovy
11:21 AM roycroft: the new wifi controller works fine
11:28 AM roycroft: the school kids will have an internet option at home now
12:25 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: I just came across this, it's TWO units for $16.48 https://www.amazon.com/Soft-Flashlight-Rechargeable-Headlight-Waterproof/dp/B07WNLJ66V
12:25 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:33 PM roycroft: four political robocalls so far this morning
12:34 PM roycroft: and the county elections board have not marked my ballot as received yet
12:34 PM roycroft: i hope they do soon, but that won't stop all the robocalls
02:45 PM unterhaus_: is it best to use the built in ethernet for my mesa card?
02:47 PM roycroft: i'm pretty sure i got the 5i25 because i determined that the parallel interface would likely be more reliable than ethernet
02:47 PM roycroft: it's been a while since i bought my stuff, but i seem to recall going through the decision making process and picking 5i25 for that reason
02:47 PM unterhaus_: I'm thinking about it. going to give ethernet a try before I give up
02:48 PM unterhaus_: certain unlikely individuals have gotten it to work, so I feel like I could
02:48 PM roycroft: i'm just telling you what i did and why i think i did it
02:48 PM roycroft: your circumstances may be different
02:48 PM unterhaus_: yeah, it's too late for one thing
02:49 PM roycroft: and if you already have an ethernet based mesa card you're probably best off trying to make it work
02:49 PM roycroft: instead of investing a couple hundred dollars in new hardware
02:49 PM unterhaus_: I think I have a link to a blog post outlining the procedure
02:49 PM roycroft: unless you can sell the one you have and recoup most of the cost
02:49 PM unterhaus_: more likely suck it up, like the 5i21
02:50 PM unterhaus_: would be using that, but it's too tall for my case
02:50 PM roycroft: again, it's been a while since i got my mesa hardware, but i remember getting it, plugging it in, and talking to it right away
02:50 PM roycroft: it was no problem at ll
02:50 PM roycroft: al
02:50 PM roycroft: all, dammit :)
02:50 PM unterhaus_: I got the cheapest ethernet card
02:51 PM unterhaus_: not a huge loss
02:51 PM roycroft: i got the 5i25 + 7i76 bundle from jt's shop
02:51 PM roycroft: which included the cable
02:51 PM roycroft: iirc it was about $200
02:52 PM roycroft: i still don't have the server on the bench
02:52 PM roycroft: but i cleared everything away from the rack cart that it's in
02:52 PM roycroft: so i'm close to being able to work on the machine
02:53 PM rs[m]: ethernet is nice, you can put it 100m away from the computer. it is isolated. and it won't go away in the future (like e.g. PCI did)
02:54 PM roycroft: you don't *think* it will go away in the future
02:55 PM unterhaus_: it will go away last
02:55 PM roycroft: being able to locate the control computer up to 100m away from the machine it's controlling could be an advantage
02:55 PM rs[m]: as long as there are things resembling a PC you will be able to get them with ethernet
02:55 PM unterhaus_: there will be ethernet cards for a very long time
02:55 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i'd want the controller to be far from the machine though
02:56 PM unterhaus_: well, a meter long ethernet cable is a lot easier to deal with than a meter long ribbon cable
02:56 PM rs[m]: the maximum parallel interface cable length from pci fpga card to breakout may be limiting
02:56 PM unterhaus_: the complication in my system is I have 50 pin breakout boards
02:56 PM roycroft: yes
02:57 PM roycroft: i agree there - i'm not sure what the maximum distance is for a parallel interface cable, but i know it's not terribly long
02:57 PM roycroft: and if you use a cable that's too long it may not be very reliable
02:57 PM roycroft: which would blow my argument for the parallel interface out of the water
02:58 PM roycroft: the cable i got for my stuff is not a ribbon cable, btw
02:58 PM roycroft: it's a round, shielded cable
02:58 PM unterhaus_: do we know who gnipsel.com is?
02:58 PM roycroft: with db-25 connectors
02:58 PM roycroft: yes, it is jt
02:58 PM roycroft: we know very well who it is
02:59 PM unterhaus_: okey, he says to use the built in for the ethernet card
02:59 PM roycroft: i'd say it probably depends on what the built in ethernet chipset is
02:59 PM roycroft: if it's a dumb chipset it will rely on the main cpu for much of its work
02:59 PM unterhaus_: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian9-rt.html
02:59 PM roycroft: in which case a third-party card with its own processor may be better
03:00 PM rs[m]: roycroft: there is not much to do for the mesa udp link. any nw card should do it
03:00 PM roycroft: even an ne2000?
03:00 PM unterhaus_: using the built-in would be easier because I wouldn't lose internet while setting it up
03:00 PM roycroft: which probably hasn't been made in decades :)
03:00 PM rs[m]: the original ISA one would be interesting...
03:01 PM roycroft: i remember the horrors of using built-in ne2000s in the '80s and '90s
03:01 PM rs[m]: but those 100mbit pci ne2000 "clones" should work too
03:02 PM unterhaus_: I was surprised I couldn't get an ethernet card to work because of windows drivers, old but name brand
03:04 PM Rab: 3C509 > NE2000
03:07 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
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03:08 PM Loetmichel: real NE2000s were not bad
03:08 PM Loetmichel: but the realtek clones....
03:09 PM Loetmichel: or even worse: the noname clones...
03:10 PM roycroft: i'm not poopooing the mesa ethernet based hardware
03:10 PM roycroft: i've never used it
03:10 PM unterhaus_: yeah, I think I had trouble finding drivers for a 3Cxxx card fairly recently
03:10 PM unterhaus_: but I have no recollection of why I wanted to use it
03:11 PM unterhaus_: for the mesa, I needed a half height anyway, which cost me $20
03:11 PM rs[m]: i have still a bunch of working 3com 100mbit pci cards
03:12 PM unterhaus_: I'm purging stuff that old as fast as i can, need space more than mothballed computer equipment
03:13 PM unterhaus_: I only regret recycling my Ohio Scientific computer in the original tin foil because collectors like them a lot
03:21 PM unterhaus_: should probably check ebay before throwing out vintage computer stuff like that
03:23 PM Deejay: gn8
03:36 PM unterhaus_: roycroft, I'm old fashioned and theethernet hardware causes my generalized anxiety to be worse
03:40 PM roycroft: ethernet has been around for 40 years
03:41 PM roycroft: it's extremely old fashioned by computer terms
03:41 PM * roycroft remembers when we were passing the token around the ring
03:42 PM roycroft: now *that* is old fashioned
03:46 PM rs[m]: ui token ring. evil stuff.
03:46 PM rs[m]: big blue
03:58 PM unterhaus_: the interface is old, but having an expansion board on the far side of a cable is new to me
03:59 PM unterhaus_: takes a leap of faith
03:59 PM unterhaus_: Also, I wonder if JT's config utility works on my board
04:00 PM rs[m]: unterhaus_: what is you board? 7i80?
04:02 PM unterhaus_: going to make me look it up again?
04:02 PM rs[m]: no
04:03 PM unterhaus_: shoot, I thought I just said, don't see it.
04:03 PM rs[m]: JT's tool only makes sense with the 7i96, but you can try pncconf
04:03 PM unterhaus_: the tool just makes a config, correct?
04:03 PM unterhaus_: no talking to the board?
04:04 PM rs[m]: with pncconf you can talk to the board and tune axis. not sure about 7i96.
04:05 PM unterhaus_: it's a 7i93, I think pcw said that pncconf doesn't work maybe
04:06 PM unterhaus_: suggested I use a previous config, which I think I can find
04:07 PM rs[m]: oh, i have the same card
04:08 PM unterhaus_: have you used it?
04:08 PM rs[m]: yes, it is "in production" so to say
04:09 PM rs[m]: (replacing a 7i90 that was connected to a rpi)
04:10 PM unterhaus_: I thought I was first :)
04:11 PM unterhaus_: is yours a stepper system?
04:12 PM rs[m]: no, analog servo system
04:12 PM rs[m]: kinda big
04:14 PM unterhaus_: okay, that's what I'm trying to set up. 7i33/7i37, iirc
04:15 PM unterhaus_: just a bridgeport in my case, but 5500 pounds worth
04:16 PM Tom_L: unterhaus_, what card do you have?
04:16 PM unterhaus_: 7i93
04:16 PM Tom_L: i've not had any trouble getting any card interface to work yet
04:17 PM unterhaus_: yeah, didn't have any trouble last time, but there has been a hiatus because I smashed my finger in the mill
04:17 PM unterhaus_: mental block was hard to overcome
04:18 PM Tom_L: should be very straighforward
04:18 PM unterhaus_: moral of the story is that commutation doesn't have to be set up right in order for a brushless motor to spin
04:19 PM rs[m]: that entirely depends on the controller
04:21 PM unterhaus_: yeah, but I have found out it's wise not to move the timing belt if the motor refuses to move
04:23 PM rs[m]: ouch
04:24 PM rs[m]: what happened? did it turn 120°?
04:25 PM unterhaus_: no, it started spinning
04:25 PM unterhaus_: and fast too, barely had time to pull my finger out from between the belt and the pully
04:25 PM unterhaus_: I have seen that with really dumb drives like some of the older AMC drives as well
04:26 PM unterhaus_: in fact, the amc manual tells you how to fix commutation if it runs rough
04:27 PM unterhaus_: I think the motor that bit me wasn't really compatible with the drive I was trying to use because they changed the encoder scheme at some point
04:27 PM roycroft: impressive
04:27 PM roycroft: robocalls on two lines at the same time
04:28 PM rs[m]: servos can be quite dangerous
04:28 PM unterhaus_: I was somewhat surprised at how fast it moved
04:28 PM unterhaus_: probably had the control at a high level because I was trying to get it to move
04:30 PM unterhaus_: rs[m] do you know what interface card(s) you are using?
04:31 PM rs[m]: 7i44 and 7i48 if i have the numbers right... rs422 breakout board and hex analog servo/encoder interface
04:31 PM rs[m]: and a bunch of 7i90s connected via smart serial as I/Os
04:31 PM Tom_L: 7i90 are nice n cheap
04:32 PM Tom_L: 7i80 is it's ethernet counterpart
04:32 PM rs[m]: 7i93 is similar, just with 2 50 pin ports
04:33 PM veegee: What I've learned is that most gasoline/LPG engines almost certainly use 10W-30 oil
04:33 PM Tom_L: yeah, 72 io on the 80 & 90
04:39 PM unterhaus_: on the 7i90, do you use one of the generic module boards?
04:39 PM Tom_L: i'm using a 7i47s on mine
04:40 PM Tom_L: but you may find a better choice for your needs
04:40 PM Tom_L: any 50 pin daughter card
04:42 PM unterhaus_: I was always curious about going direct to one of the io module cards ever since I figured out what that meant on the mesa descriptions
04:44 PM unterhaus_: Grayhill and opto have 50 pin interface to i/o module racks
04:46 PM Tom_L: are the pinouts compatible though
04:46 PM Tom_L: he's got an opto board too ya know
04:48 PM unterhaus_: my understanding is that they are compatible
04:49 PM unterhaus_: but I didn't know he had a board
04:49 PM Tom_L: it may have drivers on it but i though he had an isolation card
04:50 PM unterhaus_: have any idea what he calls his board?
04:50 PM Tom_L: looking..
04:51 PM Tom_L: 7i37
04:52 PM Tom_L: it's got drivers, not just optos
04:52 PM unterhaus_: I'm talking about boards like this https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/system-50-series/766
04:53 PM Tom_L: 7i42 is the isolation card
04:53 PM Tom_L: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_63&product_id=95
04:59 PM unterhaus_: anything i/o boards have power and ground on the same pins as the grayhill boards I posted above
05:00 PM Tom_L: cool
05:00 PM unterhaus_: even pins are all ground on both
05:00 PM unterhaus_: I was pretty sure I was interpreting the mesa site correctly
05:01 PM unterhaus_: those module racks have been available on ebay occasionally for decent prices with modules installed
05:01 PM pcw_home: Yes we originally used the OPTO-22 pinout on parallel port ISA cards
05:02 PM unterhaus_: haven't looked recently because getting more would be hoarding
05:02 PM pcw_home: and used the same so our FPGA cards would be compatible
05:02 PM unterhaus_: I always knew I like you
05:03 PM pcw_home: the interleaved grounds are also good for high speed signals
05:07 PM _unreal_: pcw_home, have you ever delt with this motor controller? FMD2740C I for the life of me can not get the contoller to enable
05:07 PM unterhaus_: so it's reasonably safe to directly connect them?
05:13 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, didn't you get it working with arduino?
05:13 PM _unreal_: for a moment and not any more
05:13 PM _unreal_: they've other wise NEVER been used
05:14 PM unterhaus_: get it working with a mechanical switch
05:14 PM _unreal_: andy I only got one
05:14 PM _unreal_: I tried shorting the damn opto isolator on the other side to force it on and nothing
05:14 PM unterhaus_: _unreal, are you hooking it directly to the fpga
05:14 PM _unreal_: there is just no info on them
05:15 PM _unreal_: unterhaus_, at this point I'm hooking them tonothing but straight power
05:15 PM Tom_L: unterhaus_, his card has isolation on it
05:15 PM Tom_L: it's hard telling what shape they're in now
05:15 PM _unreal_: the FMD2740C have onboard opto isolators
05:16 PM _unreal_: they have never been used
05:16 PM unterhaus_: especially if the solution to problems lke this is to directly wire stuff on the back side of the opto
05:16 PM _unreal_: I only shorted the pin trying to FORCE it to turn on incase the opto was blown
05:16 PM _unreal_: and still nothing
05:16 PM _unreal_: the controllers are brand new un used
05:17 PM _unreal_: I double checked all the wires everything is right
05:17 PM unterhaus_: you don't have any test equipment at all? Seems like a voltmeter would tell you if the opto was working
05:17 PM _unreal_: i DID TEST them and they passed a diode test
05:18 PM unterhaus_: I return to my first suggestion which was to drive the input directly through a resistor. Have a switch that breaks the ground connection
05:19 PM unterhaus_: I'm guessing that's what it wants
05:19 PM _unreal_: ?
05:19 PM _unreal_: are you talking 5v supply
05:20 PM unterhaus_: an opto has a high side input and a low side input. High side directly connected to 5v power through a resistor
05:20 PM _unreal_: with what 1k resistor? and en- to switch to ground? normally closed?
05:20 PM unterhaus_: sounds okay
05:20 PM Tom_L: 220-270r
05:20 PM _unreal_: the opto has a resistor on the board
05:20 PM Tom_L: that's what the diagram shows iirc
05:21 PM unterhaus_: okay, never mind the resistor
05:21 PM _unreal_: https://kenswu.zzvps.com/Function/Manual/DS_FMD2740C_EN.pdf
05:21 PM _unreal_: shows in the PDF
05:22 PM _unreal_: page 6
05:22 PM unterhaus_: is your setup trying to drive en+ with high voltage?
05:23 PM unterhaus_: or trying to pull en- low? I suggest that approach
05:23 PM _unreal_: it is?? showing a resistor between negative signal of the motor controller and the motion controller?
05:23 PM _unreal_: I simply wired 5v to en+ and grd to en-
05:23 PM _unreal_: SHOULD turn on
05:24 PM unterhaus_: yes, it should
05:24 PM Tom_L: run it thru your meter and see if there's current draw there
05:24 PM Tom_L: in the range of a diode current
05:25 PM Tom_L: +5v to the ENA+
05:25 PM unterhaus_: curious what they run the opto output into
05:25 PM Tom_L: GND---[meter]---ENA-
05:26 PM unterhaus_: _unreal_ your direct connections have all been on the outside?
05:26 PM _unreal_: yes
05:26 PM unterhaus_: good
05:26 PM _unreal_: I only tried shorting one motor and didnt do anything
05:27 PM _unreal_: and even that I made sure it was shorted before I powered it
05:27 PM _unreal_: and un powered it before I broke the short
05:27 PM unterhaus_: shorting bad, m'kay?
05:27 PM pcw_home: note that almost all step drives have disable inputs (the drive is enabled when ENA pins are unconnected)
05:27 PM _unreal_: optos still tested find
05:28 PM _unreal_: ?
05:28 PM Tom_L: what pcw said
05:28 PM unterhaus_: I had no idea, seems like useful information
05:28 PM Tom_L: wiring them would disable the driver normally
05:28 PM unterhaus_: so pulling en- low disables?
05:28 PM Tom_L: but if you wanted to test the opto ^^
05:29 PM Tom_L: usually yes
05:29 PM _unreal_: pulling opto low does nohting unless opto has a 5v SUPPLY TO EN+
05:30 PM unterhaus_: that's what I meant, but have you tried disconnecting them in light of this new input?
05:30 PM Tom_L: well yeah, it completes the circuit
05:30 PM _unreal_: THE OPTO is an isolated signal that ONE SIDE is not connected at all but rather has floating wires going to a connector on the motor controlers
05:30 PM Tom_L: that's shown on P8
05:30 PM unterhaus_: that led doesn't shine if it's not connected to anything
05:30 PM _unreal_: so gorunding or not should make ZERO change unless they have an input signal on the en+
05:31 PM _unreal_: the controller has 2 leds, red and GREEN red is always on and the motors are disabled
05:31 PM Tom_L: the diagram shows switching GND
05:31 PM _unreal_: should be able to switch ether
05:31 PM _unreal_: TIE all negatives and pulse +
05:32 PM _unreal_: or tie all + and pulse -
05:32 PM unterhaus_: did you follow the directions not to have rain?
05:33 PM unterhaus_: you can switch either, but switching 5v is much more difficult in my experience
05:33 PM unterhaus_: unless you are using a mechanical relay
05:33 PM unterhaus_: driving the high side of any of those opto inputs is asking for failure
05:34 PM unterhaus_: you want to pull the low side down and let it float otherwise
05:34 PM unterhaus_: Im a mechanical engineer but I know that much
05:35 PM _unreal_: that is news to me
05:35 PM _unreal_: I've seen them setup both ways
05:39 PM unterhaus_: are you trying to switch the high side?
05:40 PM unterhaus_: or to put it another way, does the output of your mesa card go to the plus inputs?
05:48 PM Tom_L: unterhaus_, i'm pretty sure they can go either way
05:48 PM unterhaus_: yes, but driving the high side can be flakey for the careless
05:49 PM W1N9Zr0: if the voltage you are switching is lower than the voltage of the mesa card, the MOSFET may not turn on fully
05:49 PM W1N9Zr0: err the other way around, mesa voltage must be higher than switched voltage
05:49 PM unterhaus_: I have had circuits that would work sometimes
05:49 PM unterhaus_: I try to avoid that kind of thing
05:49 PM W1N9Zr0: yes, it may work with luck, but generally this is why people use low-side mosfets
05:50 PM Tom_L: unterhaus_, yeah every now and then i get one to work too :D
05:50 PM unterhaus_: I wouldn't want to exaggerate how often my circuits work
05:50 PM Tom_L: just a play on wording...
05:51 PM unterhaus_: but I think unreal's problem is he was disabling the drive and just needs to take away the wires for now
05:51 PM Tom_L: well i've heard terms like 'short' etc so i'm not betting either way
05:52 PM unterhaus_: like I said, shorts are bad, m'kay?
05:52 PM unterhaus_: shorts often lead to smoke, in my experience
05:53 PM unterhaus_: after repeated questioning, I think he meant he hardwired to power and ground, but not both together
05:57 PM JT-Cave: it's hard to find good cotton shorts any more
06:00 PM unterhaus_: I find it's somewhat difficult to find good articles of clothing any more
06:06 PM JT-Cave: it used to crack me up my dad wore the same stuff every day... now I'm the same way
06:06 PM Tom_L: heh
06:07 PM Tom_L: i get crap for it all the time
06:10 PM JT-Cave: it was such a crappy day I didn't go and try the magazine on the spoke lathe
06:11 PM Tom_L: been a chilly day here
06:12 PM JT-Cave: cold and raining most of the day here
06:12 PM JT-Cave: feet are wet and I'm tired but some of my magic chicken soup will fix that
06:56 PM roycroft: does anyone have a suggestion for good rack mount enclosure for my linuxcnc electronics?
06:56 PM roycroft: the computer itself is already racked
06:57 PM roycroft: and the power supply for the stepper motors is also racked
06:57 PM roycroft: i just need an enclosure for the drivers, bob, and other ancillary stuff
06:57 PM roycroft: i'm thinking 3u will suffice
06:59 PM roycroft: 2u will probably be tall enough, actually
07:02 PM roycroft: and this is for a 19" rack, not 23"
07:15 PM unterhaus_: too bad you aren't closer, I would send you a care package
07:19 PM unterhaus_: rack mounting used to be an obsession of mine but electronics got smaller
07:28 PM unterhaus_: JT-Cave is attaching my mesa ethernet card to the add-in ethernet card likely to cause problems?
07:28 PM unterhaus_: I see you always recommend the built in ethernet
07:29 PM Tom_L: i'm using an addon card on my test pc
07:29 PM Tom_L: it works fine
07:35 PM unterhaus_: I was just curious about his rationale. Obviously it's easier to figure out which is which if you use the mobo for the mesa
07:36 PM unterhaus_: not much though
08:29 PM unterhaus_: okay, that was more annoying than necessary. Going to have to figure out how to see the basement computers from upstairs
08:29 PM unterhaus_: network is kinda convoluted
08:29 PM XXCoder: FO connection between floors?
08:30 PM unterhaus_: I was thinking more along the lines of some cat 6
08:30 PM unterhaus_: the router is straight down from here
08:30 PM XXCoder: ya though if you have problems routing a wire, you can use FO since it can be ran by power cables
08:30 PM unterhaus_: no easy path that doesn't include walls though
08:31 PM unterhaus_: I don't think there is anything going straight down there at this time
08:32 PM unterhaus_: wiring is a bit weird, the basement is fed from the far side of the garage
08:32 PM unterhaus_: not afraid to cut holes in the walls, they plastered over the drywall so it's easy to fix
08:37 PM Tom_L: i ran a conduit from the basement to the atic
08:49 PM unterhaus_: have to think about that, seems a lot more work than just snaking a wire or two
08:49 PM Tom_L: plastic conduit isn't that hard and easier to fish than a wire
08:49 PM unterhaus_: our last house had a big empty space between all the floors
08:50 PM Tom_L: i've got an open access in a basement utility room
08:51 PM unterhaus_: that space was almost 2 foot square. Just to get rid of a couple of corners
08:51 PM unterhaus_: guy built the house for himself
08:53 PM unterhaus_: I need to put in a smoke detector anyway, just piggyback the wire snaking on that
09:20 PM XXCoder: if youre going to run cat6 right by power, it would need very strong sheilding
09:39 PM unterhaus_: not going to run them through the same holes, if that's what you mean
09:40 PM XXCoder: thats good :)
09:40 PM Tom_L: the conduit just makes it easier to add or change things
09:41 PM Tom_L: i ran 2 2.5" to my garage when i did it
09:42 PM unterhaus_: yeah, good idea, trying to decide if it would be worth it for this
09:42 PM Tom_L: not only that but i left pull strings in all of em
09:42 PM unterhaus_: do you mean pvc conduit?
09:42 PM Tom_L: yes
09:43 PM Tom_L: if the length won't fit under your hole it's easily bent then snaked up
09:44 PM unterhaus_: it's really just one story, but the entry to the basement is not easy to get to
09:45 PM unterhaus_: 2 stories I guess, to get into the attic
09:47 PM CaptHindsight: if you run 4" you can run lines for beer, soda and snacks
09:53 PM unterhaus_: dumbwaiter driven by linuxcnc
09:56 PM CaptHindsight: 12" PVC
10:00 PM roycroft: make sure you insulate your beer lines and run them through a glycol chiller
10:02 PM unterhaus_: this project is starting to get out of control
10:08 PM unterhaus_: unreal gave up on us
10:12 PM roycroft: unreal seems a bit lost
10:12 PM unterhaus_: is it correct that internet setup is all automatic unless I make some config files?
10:12 PM roycroft: maybe it's time for reflection and digestion
10:12 PM Tom_L: unterhaus_, for the most part
10:13 PM unterhaus_: I should have taken some notes yesterday when ya'll were helping unreal
10:13 PM Tom_L: i'm used to repeating myself
10:14 PM unterhaus_: got to go log in to the basement computer
10:14 PM Tom_L: if you haven't changed the ip on your card it defaults to something like ?
10:14 PM Tom_L: mesa card that is
10:14 PM roycroft: i was going to work on my linuxcnc computer today
10:14 PM Tom_L: i changed mine to the one
10:14 PM roycroft: but before that i needed to install a new group head gasket on my espresso machine
10:15 PM roycroft: which was a 10 minute job
10:15 PM Tom_L: i was gonna work on my spindle motor 7 weeks ago but it's not here yet
10:15 PM roycroft: allegedly
10:15 PM roycroft: it ended up taking 2-1/2 hours
10:28 PM ericceller: so is there a way to get the current network settings so I can put them in a file
10:28 PM Tom_L: umm
10:29 PM Tom_L: .../etc/networking/interfaces
10:29 PM roycroft: i am so sick of the political robocalls
10:29 PM roycroft: i just got another one
10:29 PM roycroft: i've lost count, but that's at least a dozen today
10:29 PM Tom_L: roycroft, i must say my block list has grown quite a bit
10:29 PM Tom_L: even some international ones
10:29 PM roycroft: and earlier today i got two of them at the same time, on two different lines
10:30 PM Tom_L: they like you
10:30 PM roycroft: can it please be two weeks from today already?
10:30 PM Tom_L: it will be something else then
10:30 PM Tom_L: back to the normal car warranty or insurance spam
10:31 PM roycroft: not to forget marriott rewards
10:31 PM ericceller: interfaces is empty
10:31 PM Tom_L: oh and the SS admin ones
10:31 PM roycroft: and the irs
10:31 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
10:32 PM Tom_L: and a few amazon ones
10:32 PM roycroft: telling me that i'm delinquent on my taxes
10:32 PM Tom_L: yeah i've had those
10:32 PM roycroft: and wanting me to meet them at the wal*mart parking lot with a money order
10:32 PM Tom_L: hahahha
10:32 PM ericceller: not gift cards?
10:32 PM roycroft: somehow i don't get the gift card calls
10:32 PM Tom_L: ericceller, it faries how linux handles networking
10:32 PM roycroft: but i know that some get them
10:32 PM Tom_L: it's hard to say
10:33 PM roycroft: well i should not have done this
10:33 PM roycroft: because i have to start work at 5am
10:33 PM Tom_L: haven't had a publisher's clearing house one in a while
10:33 PM roycroft: and i won't be able to sleep now
10:33 PM ericceller: If I add to it is it going to mess up the existing network card?
10:33 PM roycroft: but i just made a cappuccino to make sure the espresso machine is working after my gasket replacement
10:34 PM Tom_L: roycroft, it's still early where you are
10:34 PM roycroft: what are you trying to do, ericcellar?
10:34 PM roycroft: it's 8:30 at night
10:34 PM roycroft: if i drink coffee after noon i have trouble sleeping
10:34 PM Tom_L: it's 10:30 here
10:35 PM Tom_L: and i'm out
10:35 PM ericceller: I want to add a fixed address for my second card
10:35 PM roycroft: what operating system are you using?
10:35 PM ericceller: linux
10:35 PM roycroft: what distro?
10:35 PM ericceller: mint
10:36 PM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/rpi4-eth.html
10:36 PM roycroft: mint is debian-based, isn't it?
10:36 PM Tom_L: it's going to be quite similar to that
10:36 PM Tom_L: ericceller, ^^
10:36 PM Tom_L: except you don't have to ssh in
10:37 PM ericceller: mostly just curious if I can ignore the existing connection or if I have to add that too
10:37 PM roycroft: so i'm not going to be able to help you much
10:37 PM Tom_L: what mint version?
10:37 PM roycroft: but i can tell you this much
10:37 PM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/linuxmint19-eth.html
10:37 PM roycroft: if you edit /etc/network/interfaces you can add the second adapter
10:37 PM Tom_L: there
10:37 PM roycroft: when you finish the edit you do this:
10:37 PM roycroft: systemctl restart networking
10:38 PM ericceller: I have eno1 and enp4s0
10:38 PM roycroft: if anything in the config is wrong the restart will fail and you'll get warnings that it failed
10:38 PM Tom_L: ignore the working one
10:38 PM roycroft: but your primary interface *should* still work
10:38 PM roycroft: no guarantees, but it almost always continues to work
10:38 PM Tom_L: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/linuxmint18-eth.html
10:39 PM Tom_L: there's one for mint 18 too
10:39 PM roycroft: unless mint messed that up
10:39 PM roycroft: now if it fails and you reboot you may lose networking
10:40 PM roycroft: so if it fails, comment out or delete the edits you did if you need to reboot before you can fix the problem
10:41 PM roycroft: anyway
10:41 PM roycroft: the gasket had not sealed properly and the first shot did not work out
10:41 PM roycroft: i pulled a second shot
10:42 PM roycroft: and made a delicious cappuccino
10:42 PM ericceller: well, I hosed the file :)
10:42 PM roycroft: i should have said this before, but
10:42 PM roycroft: cp -p /etc/network/interfaces /etc/network/interfaces.save
10:43 PM roycroft: would have been a good thing to do before editing the file
10:43 PM Tom_L: where's the fun in having backups
10:44 PM ericceller: well, it isn't so hosed that I got disconnected
10:45 PM ericceller: couldn't read the file
10:48 PM roycroft: is linuxcnc working on debian 10?
10:48 PM roycroft: jt's website only goes up to debian 9
10:49 PM ericceller: what's the code name for 10
10:49 PM ericceller: aren't they using buster
10:50 PM roycroft: yes, it's buster
10:51 PM roycroft: the last time i installed linuxcnc it was on jessie
10:52 PM roycroft: i can actually do that tonight, even though i don't have the production machine ready
10:52 PM roycroft: i can install in a vm to make sure i have the procedure down
10:58 PM ericceller: okay, I had inserted a spurious =
10:59 PM ericceller: wonder where my mesa card is
10:59 PM ericceller: probably in the control cabinet
11:08 PM unterhaus_: board location is currently a mystery
11:24 PM roycroft: so installing a pre-empt kernel has gotten a lot easier
11:29 PM unterhaus_: at one time they were going to make it a mainline option
11:30 PM unterhaus_: don't you still have to build it, where "you" means andypugh?
11:31 PM roycroft: the pre-empt kernel is part of the official debian distribution now
11:31 PM roycroft: so yeah
11:31 PM roycroft: it took me 25 minutes to build a virtual machine and install linuxcnc
11:31 PM roycroft: it's gotten a lot easier
11:32 PM roycroft: my changelog that documents the install is only 18 lines long
11:37 PM roycroft: that was actually pretty boring
11:37 PM roycroft: and not necessary
11:39 PM roycroft: the debian 9/lcnc2.7 install changelog is close to 100 lines
11:39 PM roycroft: that includes the touchscreen package and supporting packages though
11:40 PM roycroft: and this vm doesn't have that