#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 10 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:48 AM Deejay: moin
03:25 AM veegee: So about my weird tapered thread with flare face fitting
03:26 AM veegee: Turns out it was just a regular flare fitting that someone drove a tapered fitting into, causing both fittings to deform
03:26 AM veegee: Makes sense why it was leaking hydraulic fluid...
04:09 AM Tom_L: mornnig
04:11 AM XXCoder: yo
04:27 AM Tom_L: veegee, rather surprised they could get the threads started
04:28 AM Tom_L: but then it's amazing what a determined fool can do
04:29 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/rYAe5pR55U0 https://youtu.be/B3AIgmO-geM really nice
05:36 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:42 AM XXCoder: yo
06:08 AM jymmmm: morning
06:15 AM jymmmm: At 1am, I get woken up to "knock knock, county sheriff". I'm like WTH, grab the flashlight and look out the window, don't see anyone. Lookout another window, still don't see anyone. Now not sure what's going on, grab the gun, open the door and yell out "HELLO??" Still nothing. Look out another window, nope the motion light wasn't triggered. Ready to call 911 to ask if they have deputies up here by chance... rewind the tv 30 seconds, It
06:15 AM jymmmm: was the fucking movie -sigh- lol
06:16 AM XXCoder: lol
06:23 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: well, I guess that's better than wake up from a dream of "knock knock..." haha
06:24 AM XXCoder: i still remember where i was woken by my mom, she give me thick stack of 100 bills like you see bank stuff, i put it under pillow and l;ater wake up it doesnt exist lol
06:25 AM XXCoder: other one where i wake up, dress, go up hill wait for bus, get on bus, ride for while then wake up
06:25 AM XXCoder: i was annoyed on having to do it again
06:27 AM jymmmm: awww, haha
06:28 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: It was totally real, The tooth fairy got a refund is all ;)
06:28 AM XXCoder: lol
06:36 AM jymmmm: I picked up one of these for $29 https://www.harborfreight.com/1250-lumen-work-light-battery-bank-56163.html It's cheap plastic, but it's actually pretty bright
06:36 AM jymmmm: Coupon https://www.harborfreight.com/digitalsavings.html
06:36 AM XXCoder: not bad
06:37 AM jymmmm: Internally, it uses two 18650 in parallel, it looks like there's enough room to add a 3rd in parallel. It does have a tripod mount, but I'd fill the cavity with hot glue to reinforce it.
06:38 AM jymmmm: Rted at 3 hours on high, 5 hours on low.
06:38 AM jymmmm: Rated*
06:39 AM XXCoder: is it battery only or plug also?
06:39 AM jymmmm: Just battery
06:40 AM jymmmm: I guess you could add a plug if you wanted to
06:50 AM jymmmm: Grrr... still waiting for my laser to arrive Tuesday =(
06:50 AM XXCoder: laser machine or pointer
06:52 AM jymmmm: high power green laser pointer. I'd send you the link but it's not on amazon anymore
06:52 AM XXCoder: cool. whats your plan
06:53 AM jymmmm: Just to play with, it comes with a "starry" effect attachment that look like a kalaidascope, daylight visible, maybe I can scare off animals that like to poop in my yard... hopefully.
06:55 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Oh here ya go, from another seller... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KZH5LHM/
06:55 AM XXCoder: cool
06:56 AM jymmmm: I think it's one of those they advertised years ago that would light a match on fire, (meh, whatever), but when you actually get to see/play with one, it's actually pretty cool.
06:58 AM jymmmm: I was able to pont it at the mailboxes 600ft away and it reflected back very bright.
07:05 AM XXCoder: cool :) just keep in mind if you use it while in car people might think youre ponentally snaping people
07:06 AM XXCoder: yes I was that moron. before i started driving lol
07:08 AM jymmmm: You mean sniping? Yeah, I thought of that too, but not from a car, lol.
07:08 AM XXCoder: lol. nah didnt think that way. just hit random stuff with laser
07:10 AM jymmmm: Oh, heh, I want to try to hit a ball prism and see if it'll split the beam into 50+ segments =)
07:11 AM jymmmm: oh this might be interesting... https://www.amazon.com/Crystal-Suncatcher-Pendants-Crystals-Decoration/dp/B07QJZM71M 12 of them :D
07:12 AM jymmmm: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YdLOJ%2BsGL._AC_.jpg
07:18 AM XXCoder: set a array of them
07:18 AM XXCoder: laser time. cover your remaining eye
07:19 AM jymmmm: Yep, if you could align them all up that is
07:20 AM XXCoder: or go for choatic effect
07:20 AM XXCoder: you need something to scatter em a LOT then rest will shine or not as it moves around
07:22 AM jymmmm: Yeah, but it's NOT easy to hold the laser still and point at something in the distance, would have to use a tripod for that.
07:24 AM XXCoder: certainly
09:48 AM JT-Shop: not too hard to hold the laser on my 1911 on target
09:53 AM roycroft: i should finish the planing stop/tool holder for my bench oday
09:53 AM roycroft: the walnut is just gorgeous - it's a shame to use it for that, as only the edges will show
09:53 AM roycroft: i did not know what beautiful grain it had when i bought it
09:54 AM roycroft: if the hardwood supplier were open today i'd almost go back and get some more for this project so i could save the stuff i have for something nicer
10:05 AM * JT-Cave has done step 1 find the #1 southern yellow pine section at Menards
10:06 AM * JavaBean laughs, forgot that menards sells lumbers
10:12 AM * JavaBean says 'hmmm' thought he had a menards much closer than that
10:15 AM JT-Cave: homedepot also has some #1, Lowes has "select" whatever that is
10:30 AM JavaBean: maybe yours does. only thing that my homedepot claims is SYP is the "sealed outdoor" stuff
11:49 AM _unreal_: ok just got back from work
11:49 AM _unreal_: now to see if I can get the motors moving on the machine today
11:52 AM JT-Cave: I've not actually looked at home depot but they show it online, I've only verified that menards has #1
11:54 AM Tom_L: ever order from paxton?
11:58 AM JT-Cave: me?
12:02 PM Tom_L: yeah
12:03 PM Tom_L: iirc they're in KC
12:03 PM Tom_L: well, the nearest one
12:03 PM Tom_L: https://paxtonwood.com/
12:08 PM JT-Shop: no, I've never ordered from them
12:13 PM Tom_L: you probably wouldn't need to with all the trees around there
12:20 PM JT-Shop: we have mostly oak (red, white, post, shag) and hickory with some persimmon in some areas
01:20 PM jymmmm: JT this is a 6" high power green laser pointer, not something that is stablized by the shoulder, etc... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KZH5LHM/
01:22 PM jymmmm: Huh, HF now has EXTREME DUTY tarps. I always felt their silver ones were pretty good. https://www.harborfreight.com/8-ft-x-10-ft-silver-black-extreme-duty-weather-resistant-tarp-57031.html
01:27 PM jymmmm: They have larger sizes too
01:29 PM roycroft: silver tarps are one of the few things i buy at hf
01:29 PM roycroft: i have to say, though, the general quality of their tools is improving
01:29 PM roycroft: there's still a lot of stuff that's total crap, but most of their stuff is at least not total crap any more
01:30 PM * JavaBean idly wonders if their breaker bars would survive the 'test' he put a autozone breaker bar through
01:33 PM roycroft: i would not trust a hf breaker bar
01:33 PM roycroft: i'm not ready to go that far
01:33 PM roycroft: and probably never shall
01:34 PM roycroft: i have an assortment of craftsman, snap-on, and mac breaker bars, and doubt i'll never need another one
01:35 PM JavaBean: i was trying to change the hub bearing on a car. that hub nut WOULD NOT COME OFF!!!!!! so i used a floorjack and the weight of the car and the engine/transmission to break it loose
01:35 PM JavaBean: the person at autozone was impressed the bar survived as well as it did
01:37 PM roycroft: an impact wrench would have been useful there
01:38 PM roycroft: having someone bang on the nut with a hammer while you shove on the breaker bar in sync with the banging might have done it
01:40 PM JavaBean: maybe. but neither was an option at that time/place
01:44 PM roycroft: a long cheater bar would probably have been better than the jack
01:44 PM roycroft: you want a percussive action to loosen the nut
01:45 PM JavaBean: i used what i had, and i WAS banging on it whilest the jack was at full extension
01:46 PM roycroft: sounds like a tough nut
01:47 PM JavaBean: yeah, the butane torch that i tried using at the beginning didn't do much either. but as there is some atleast semi flamable material in that location i didn't get it as hot as i could
02:15 PM Tom_L: seems both methods work
02:18 PM JavaBean: might have indeed, i WAS going to thermal cycle it a few times but ran out of "fuel". and at the time i couldn't afford more
02:18 PM JT-Cave: I looked a some aluminum bar clamps at horrible freight and they were a bit thicker than tin foil
02:30 PM roycroft: some folks have bought those clamps and filled them with a piece of hardwood, and say they're fairly sturdy then
02:31 PM roycroft: but as they come they are completely useless
03:16 PM roycroft: excellent
03:17 PM roycroft: my 7x14 lathe is gone
03:17 PM roycroft: and the guy who bought it knows what he's getting, so i'm not worried that he'll be pissed off about it
03:18 PM roycroft: i don't like selling tools/machinery to people who don't know what it is and may have unrealistic expectations
03:30 PM Deejay: gn8
04:07 PM _unreal_: the one part I'm always NOT a fan of. WIRING
04:38 PM _unreal_: slightly pissed off. just discovered my PSU I just put in to power the 7i96 and the primary RELAY is a PUSSY. and wont throw the relay
04:39 PM _unreal_: I cant see the relay so I dont know what the exact specs are on it other then 12v
04:39 PM _unreal_: for the coil
04:56 PM Tom_L: WHAT!
04:56 PM Tom_L: relays don't take _THAT_ much power
04:57 PM Tom_L: did you put a diode across it?
04:58 PM JT-Shop: well crap, two of the rebuild kits are missing a piece...
04:58 PM Tom_L: woops
04:59 PM Tom_L: are we rebuilding hydraulic or engine cylinders?
05:03 PM JT-Shop: hydraulic
05:12 PM snakedLX is now known as snaked
05:12 PM _unreal_: this one does
05:12 PM _unreal_: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/357/Schneider_Electric_10312019_92S7D22D-12-1665211.pdf
05:12 PM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00859PQK2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
05:12 PM _unreal_: that is the very one I purchased
05:13 PM _unreal_: tkes 500ma to switch
05:13 PM _unreal_: switching now but for some reason the DIODE MUST be the wrong kind or other then what I thought it was
05:13 PM _unreal_: ARG.
05:15 PM pcw_home: 500 mA is minimum contact load (relay coil draws 140 mA)
05:16 PM _unreal_: well my 12v psu i was trying to use that is 400ma wouldnt switch it. so I just switched to a 12v 5amp psu I found
05:16 PM _unreal_: now its swtiching. but my flyback diode doesnt seem to be working or I have the wrong kind for some reason
05:17 PM veegee: Question: This is an o ring boss elbow fitting: https://cdn3.volusion.com/dfrau.gmyce/v/vspfiles/photos/6901-2.jpg How do I use it? That is, do I just screw it in and orient it to my desired position and then tighten the nut?
05:17 PM _unreal_: diodes are likely the SINGLE thing I use to purchase the most from radio shack
05:18 PM _unreal_: veegee, the mating surface should have a small race to capture the oring
05:18 PM _unreal_: so yes. but I would also suggest some super lube on the bearing
05:18 PM _unreal_: and do not over tighten it. its easy to damage compression rubber orings
05:19 PM veegee: I'll lubricate with hydraulic oil
05:20 PM veegee: I'm in the process of replacing all the hoses and fittings on my forklift
05:21 PM veegee: deciding whether to use ORB or ORF fittings
05:21 PM veegee: or JIC flare
05:23 PM _unreal_: so long as they meat the pressure ratings likely does not matter
05:23 PM _unreal_: meet
05:23 PM _unreal_: now if it does MEAT the pressure rating its likely ham
05:23 PM veegee: lol the chart on this page: http://blog.parker.com/five-most-important-factors-you-need-to-consider-for-hydraulic-fittings#:~:text=O%2DRing%20Boss%3A%20The%20threads,the%20best%20leak%20free%20connection.
05:23 PM roycroft: unless it's a turkey
05:24 PM veegee: NPT vibration resistance: "poor" are you serious?
05:24 PM veegee: I seal it with loctite 5452
05:25 PM _unreal_: there are inserts for JIC couplers for making a better seal
05:26 PM veegee: also seal reliability of NPT is "poor" wtf?
05:26 PM _unreal_: NPT I agree
05:26 PM _unreal_: NPT is tapper'ed
05:27 PM veegee: With the right thread sealant, that should make the best seal
05:27 PM _unreal_: if npt rattles loose is free's faster then other thread styles
05:28 PM _unreal_: A non tappered thread you have the same thread resistance the entire way. a tapered it gets looser as you un screw it
05:28 PM veegee: ah
05:29 PM _unreal_: so your only tight at the bottom of the thread
05:29 PM veegee: I've never had NPT come loose though since you have to tighten it very tight the first time to get a good seal
05:29 PM _unreal_: and that is often close to the "moment" for the pipe as well
05:29 PM veegee: But quality of the threads is a huge factor
05:30 PM Tom_L: yup
05:30 PM _unreal_: right. and NPT requires a special grinding tool to produe
05:30 PM Tom_L: if they chased the thread on too far you'll never get a good seal
05:30 PM _unreal_: you can use a DIE
05:30 PM Tom_L: i've seen that happen
05:31 PM _unreal_: but the further you add threads the deeper it cuts into the pipe
05:31 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, all the time
05:31 PM Tom_L: causing it to possibly bottom out on the mating part
05:31 PM _unreal_: hence I typically used form a gasket HARD, or true blu on the luxury yachts
05:32 PM _unreal_: depending on if its for potable, or oils-fuels-waste
05:40 PM _unreal_: ok now I should have a normal diode in place. Waiting for my soldering iron to heat up so I can tack it in. then I should be able to ocontrol the damn relay
05:45 PM _unreal_: there now it should switch
05:45 PM _unreal_: time to test the relay again
05:49 PM _unreal_: and there it is the relay works
05:50 PM _unreal_: I need to get a bunch of stuff buttoned up then I'll need help with getting the 7i96 setup to drive steppers
05:50 PM _unreal_: arg...
05:51 PM _unreal_: I still need to make a limit switch adapter board to pull them high and debounce them
06:22 PM _unreal_: pcw I have long runs
06:23 PM _unreal_: for my limit switches. one at each end per axis. wired semi parallel. one I/O per limitch switch 6 for xyz in total
06:23 PM _unreal_: so you dont think I'll get any NOISE or anything.
06:24 PM _unreal_: I was designing a PCB to mill or etch. so I could put a pull up resistor array and a small ceramic cap to ground
06:25 PM _unreal_: if you dont think I'll need it I'll forgo it but I'm just trying to limit noise. the control box has plenty in it that could generate noise. and again long wire runs to the stepper motors. I am no longer using the servo setup I was going to use. Im out of time and have to move the machine as soon as I can.
06:26 PM _unreal_: pcw_home, the arduino grbl setup I did for my daughters mini cnc machine needed a small boared like that to clean up the signal.
06:28 PM pcw_home: For bare Arduino inputs maybe, for a 7I96 with LinuxCNC, no
07:15 PM veegee: Random: I just actuated the fork positioner on the forklift and got the forks to spread all the way wide open
07:15 PM veegee: Now they're "stuck" again in that position lol
07:16 PM veegee: It's SOOOOO random
07:16 PM veegee: But at least I have a clearer view of the mechanism
07:16 PM veegee: And it's so dead simple. It's just two double acting hydraulic rams and T slots as linear slideways
07:16 PM veegee: I cannot possibly imagine what could be causing them to get stuck
07:23 PM JavaBean: gunk in the sliding surfaces?
07:25 PM JavaBean: a friend of mine with a forklift had that same problem on the surfaces sliding to lift stuff... it couldn't lift something really heavy, but was still within rating. lifted it up fully and found some serious gunk on the surfaces, cleaned it all up and no more issue
07:49 PM veegee: JavaBean I highly doubt gunk would cause 3000 PSI hydraulic cylinders to stop like that and cause the pressure relief valve to open
07:49 PM veegee: Those things have an enormous amount of force
07:49 PM infornography: So super gunk
07:50 PM veegee: Everything is greased really well
07:50 PM veegee: I'll just have to disassemble everything to figure this one out
09:10 PM _unreal_: veegee, is there any chance there is a STOP that has broken off and there for they are over extending and jaming
09:10 PM _unreal_: ?
09:11 PM veegee: _unreal_ no, because the position in which they "jam" is random
09:11 PM _unreal_: OHHHHHHH
09:11 PM veegee: could be at the narrowest position, could be at the most extended position, could be anywhere in between
09:11 PM _unreal_: well then I gues the only other question is it the ram that is jaming or is it the slide way
09:12 PM veegee: And when they "jam", the pressure relief valve always opens
09:12 PM veegee: the hoses jerk
09:12 PM _unreal_: that sounds like ram
09:12 PM veegee: so there's oil flow definitely getting to the cylinders
09:12 PM _unreal_: I bet you have failed seals in the ram
09:12 PM _unreal_: and its likely rolled a few as well
09:12 PM veegee: Even if that were the case, why would it fail _like this_
09:13 PM veegee: lets say the seal completely failed, it would leak into the other side of the cylinder
09:13 PM veegee: and it would simply push oil back into the reservoir through the other hose
09:13 PM _unreal_: the gods of machines work in mysterious ways
09:13 PM veegee: so if anything, it would just act like constant oil flow but nothing moving
09:13 PM veegee: instead it causes the pressure relief valve to open indicating there's some sort of hard restriction
09:14 PM Tom_L: what about the valve assembly itself
09:14 PM _unreal_: no idea but that would be my guess. unless there is somethiung to do with the slide's
09:14 PM _unreal_: chaffing or what not
09:14 PM veegee: Tom_L valves themselves are fine, I checked with pressure gauge
09:14 PM _unreal_: OHH ya tom I forgot about valves
09:14 PM veegee: valves are doing what they're supposed to be doing
09:15 PM _unreal_: does it get stuck in ether direction?
09:15 PM veegee: I'll switch up the connections to the valve for the rotator which I know works for sure
09:15 PM _unreal_: or only in one
09:15 PM veegee: either direction
09:15 PM veegee: once you get it moving though, it tends to keep going
09:15 PM veegee: but if you stop and start again, that's when it jams
09:15 PM Tom_L: since you _don't_ know what it is, i question it all
09:16 PM veegee: I'll switch the hoses to the other valve to confirm that it's not the valve
09:16 PM veegee: I'll take some high res pictures with my A7R3
09:16 PM _unreal_: something like that could be traced all the way back to the main body control manifold
09:17 PM veegee: so the control valves?
09:17 PM _unreal_: I agree with tom. currently this is an issue that could be any number of things
09:17 PM veegee: yeah
09:17 PM _unreal_: I would have a hard time believing the slides are the issue
09:17 PM veegee: Alright going to head to the workshop and try switching the hoses to a known working valve
09:17 PM veegee: Yeah me too, the slides are so dead simple. It's just a T slot
09:18 PM _unreal_: because it would be leaving nasty digs in the slideways if it was jaming
09:18 PM _unreal_: so then that moves back to the rams(s)..
09:18 PM veegee: Random image from kijiji: https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDYwMA==/z/V5kAAOSwvntffaBr/$_59.JPG
09:18 PM veegee: It looks VERY similar to that
09:19 PM _unreal_: if its the rams its going to be any internal seals that are failing or valves that are not working correctly
09:19 PM veegee: See the T slots? those are the linear slides
09:19 PM _unreal_: does yours have a break out manafold like that one
09:19 PM veegee: Since they're double acting cylinders (they push and pull), I would guess it would just bypass the seal and go back to tank
09:20 PM veegee: I can't imagine why that would cause the pressure relief valve to open
09:20 PM veegee: But yeah I'll take pics and a video
09:20 PM veegee: And it's always completely random. Sometimes if I turn it on the next day and move the lever, it works for a minute
09:21 PM veegee: then it gets stuck again lol
09:21 PM _unreal_: I'm by no means an expert. but the more I think about it. I lean twards VALVES and control bodies
09:21 PM veegee: ok then switching to a known working lever should confirm that
09:22 PM veegee: I'll just unplug the hoses for the rotator attachment which I never use but I know always works and plug in the hoses for the fork positioners
09:24 PM _unreal_: right. if you get the same action then the issue closer to the hardware its self.
09:25 PM veegee: Yeah
09:25 PM veegee: There's a 2,000 lb pallet full of spare parts it came with. Haven't even unpacked that
09:25 PM veegee: there could be a replacement control body in there
10:48 PM XXCoder: what the heck?? https://youtu.be/qPtCNid2Ujg?t=1470
10:48 PM XXCoder: thread cutter but looks like tap?
10:51 PM XXCoder: JT-Shop: you know anything about it?
11:22 PM norias: just a normal thread mill?
11:23 PM XXCoder: yeah? interesting. i havent seen any that was more than couple tooth at end
11:24 PM XXCoder: thats why I thought it was tap till i noticed it moving around on x and z
11:24 PM mrec: Hi, what kind of latency should I have for a good operation?
11:24 PM mrec: did anyone try to use linuxcnc via USB 3?
11:25 PM norias: XXCoder: not unusual. they are fixed pitch
11:25 PM XXCoder: ahh so single gives you some flexability
11:26 PM XXCoder: while those is single pitch
11:26 PM norias: https://www.harveytool.com/products/thread-milling-cutters/multi-form
11:26 PM norias: yeah, the pitch is ground in
11:27 PM XXCoder: nice
11:27 PM norias: the single form style usually has a range
11:27 PM norias: I stock single form for prototyping just to have less tooling on hand
11:27 PM norias: but the multiform is faster if you do the same thing over and over
11:28 PM norias: you can do a couple different sizes as long as they are the same pitch