#linuxcnc Logs
Oct 09 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:03 AM Deejay: moin
01:24 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
02:55 AM Loetmichel: *hrrmph* I REALLY need a new phone... Took it from the charger 2.5h ago... just now: *beepbeep* "Battery low, 15% remaining" :-(
03:13 AM Loetmichel: I found the culprit: cam was focussing all the time. Cam app must have stalled or something. Reboot: everything back to normal, including the temperature of the top part of the phone. (was nearly to hot to touch)
04:51 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:00 AM Tom_L: morning
06:22 AM JT-Cave: going to test the magazine for the spoke machine today, still have a few details to sort out but close enough to test
06:25 AM htasta: i wish you much success :D
06:28 AM JT-Cave: thanks
06:45 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by tepper.freenode.net
06:57 AM JT-Cave: yo
07:34 AM jymmmm: morning
09:02 AM skunkworks: morning
09:42 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:10 PM jymmmm: Hi skunkworks
12:37 PM Tom_L: good day to knock off early i think
12:38 PM beachbumpete1: Tom_L: Thats what Im thinking...but its probably NOT happenin' :(
02:45 PM veegee: Is there such a thing as NPT fittings that seal with a flare?
02:45 PM veegee: The threads on this particular fitting are NPT for sure
02:45 PM veegee: but the male side has somewhat of a concave face
02:47 PM veegee: and its matching female side has a bit of a convex face. The nut is tapered as well and freely rotates to allow you to connect the two without rotating either of the hoses
02:47 PM veegee: but it's _definitely_ tapered pipe thread
02:47 PM Tom_L: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71oHZDKGUqL._SL1500_.jpg
02:48 PM veegee: That's not it
02:48 PM veegee: the flare part isn't as long as it is for a JIC flare
02:48 PM veegee: it's kind of like a pipe union but much smaller, 1/2" size
02:49 PM veegee: And the male end has the concave face
02:49 PM Tom_L: https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/51d59268-b5d8-4c03-9bcf-f4f85ba6d816_1.804241350d7f88796dba9699bb19f83d.jpeg
02:49 PM veegee: It's exactly what you get if you take a standard 1/2" NPT male fitting and then carve out a concave face
02:49 PM roycroft: npt is a taper fit
02:49 PM roycroft: there is no flare/flange/whatever involved
02:49 PM veegee: Yeah I know, which is why this particular fitting is weird
02:49 PM roycroft: it's the taper
02:50 PM Tom_L: there is one if you machine one
02:50 PM veegee: Tom_L Yes it looks exactly like that
02:50 PM roycroft: nps requires a seal
02:50 PM roycroft: but npt does not
02:50 PM veegee: the flare part isn't as large/exaggerated
02:50 PM veegee: roycroft I know how it works, I"m just describing a fitting I found because I've never seen anything like it
02:50 PM Tom_L: that's a double flare nut i think
02:51 PM veegee: Tom_L yeah it's like that but mine also has a standard 1/2" NPT tapered thread
02:51 PM veegee: I'll take a pic when I get back to the workshop
02:51 PM Tom_L: generally flare fittings have straight threads
02:52 PM veegee: I know!!
02:52 PM Tom_L: if tapered, one defeats the purpose of the other
02:52 PM veegee: Yeah, hence why I'm describing how weird it is
02:52 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
02:52 PM roycroft: at the very least it's redundant
02:53 PM roycroft: if engineered and manufactured very precisely both the sealing surface and the taper fit could achieve the correct seal at exactly the same time
02:54 PM Tom_L: at least the first time _maybe_
02:54 PM roycroft: otherwise one would definitely defeat the purpose of the other
02:54 PM roycroft: if this fitting is as veegee is describing it, and i'm not suggesting he's describing it incorrectly, then it makes no sense
02:54 PM roycroft: which is what veegee is saying
02:55 PM veegee: exactly
02:55 PM Tom_L: it's gonna be a good weekend!!! we all started off in agreement :)
02:56 PM roycroft: someone is coming down to buy my little 7x14 lathe this weekend
02:56 PM roycroft: so it's going to be a good weekend for that reason alone :)
02:56 PM roycroft: more stuff that takes up space no longer taking up space
02:56 PM roycroft: at least not in my shop
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: best weather of the year
02:57 PM roycroft: it's going to rain here
02:57 PM roycroft: that's kind of a bummer
02:57 PM roycroft: i don't mind rain, but i've been doing all my cl stuff outdoors due to the pandemic
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: this is our 2 weeks of 60's F and no rain
02:57 PM roycroft: i may have to let folks into my garage tomorrow
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: in a week or two it will be 40's F and rain then snow
02:58 PM roycroft: our fires are still burning
02:58 PM roycroft: but they're not spreading much any more
02:58 PM roycroft: the rain has helped with that
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: was near 80F today, last year we had snow on Oct 31
02:58 PM roycroft: yeah, it was 33 here yesterday
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: are they flaming or more smoldering?
02:59 PM roycroft: but only 21 today
02:59 PM roycroft: and 16 tomorrow
02:59 PM roycroft: flaming
02:59 PM roycroft: a fire that's > 100k acres is not going to go smoldering for a long time
02:59 PM roycroft: the fires will be burning until thanksgiving at least
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-unveiled.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: good job of visualizing in simple terms ^^
03:00 PM roycroft: the three biggest ones in oregon were creating their own weather systems
03:00 PM roycroft: as were several in california
03:00 PM roycroft: and elsewhere, i'm sure
03:00 PM roycroft: we had more land burning in oregon than the size of the stte of delaware at one point this summer
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: we had frost a week ago
03:01 PM roycroft: i know delaware is not a large state
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: so much for the farm report :)
03:01 PM roycroft: but still, having fires bigger than an entire state is astounding
03:01 PM roycroft: are we gonna blow up a celebrity now?
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: real good!
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: still makes me laugh
03:02 PM roycroft: maybe brooke shields?
03:04 PM Tom_L: she's an old lady now anyway
03:05 PM roycroft: she can still blow up real good
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: major appliance shortage in the USA
03:09 PM roycroft: it's been that way for a while
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: was wondering why i saw job postings for appliance repair
03:09 PM roycroft: due to the tariffs
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: >$100K/year
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: likely if you work 80+ hours/week
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: what CNCer didn't already know this? https://3dprint.com/273230/four-axis-based-3d-printed-tubular-scaffolds-with-controllable-mechanical-properties/
03:18 PM Deejay: gn8
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: wonder what 5-axis can do? :)
03:21 PM FinboySlick: I thought the point of 3D printing is that things shouldn't matter beyond 3 axis. You could pull any of those shapes out of a resin printer's vat.
03:22 PM roycroft: is there a density difference between liquid resin and curd resin?
03:23 PM roycroft: cured
03:23 PM roycroft: i'm not sure you want resin curds
03:23 PM roycroft: they are probably not very tasty
03:23 PM FinboySlick: I'm from Quebec. You say 'curds', I think poutine.
03:24 PM roycroft: canadians do not have a monopoly on cheese curds
03:24 PM roycroft: ask any wisconsonian
03:25 PM roycroft: although if i'm honest, many of us here in the us think of wisconsin as junior canada :)
03:25 PM roycroft: and i don't mean that in a bad way
03:26 PM roycroft: just in a "they know for cold and how to talk funny" way :)
03:26 PM FinboySlick: Poutine is mostly a quebec thing, mind you. It exists outside of Quebec but not quite the same.
03:26 PM roycroft: do tim horton's serve it?
03:26 PM FinboySlick: I don't think so. But McDonalds does.
03:26 PM roycroft: no they don't
03:26 PM FinboySlick: Most large fast-food chains have poutine in Quebec.
03:26 PM roycroft: mcdonald's don't serve food at all
03:27 PM roycroft: they just serve stuff resembling food
03:27 PM Tom_L: their fries aren't made from potatoes
03:27 PM roycroft: i actually don't even know what they serve at mcdonalds these days
03:27 PM FinboySlick: Tim Hortons had potato wedges for a bit, but I don't think they serve any fries, so poutine wouldn't be their thing.
03:27 PM roycroft: i haven't been to one since i was 16
03:27 PM roycroft: when i worked at one one day
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: Quebecian poutine vs Wisconsonian poutines
03:38 PM FinboySlick: Secret is usually the sauce/gravy. For the rest, the goal is pretty easy, not too crispy fries and curds fresh enough to squeak.
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: I like it with crispy fires
03:39 PM roycroft: i'm not sure they eat poutine in wisconsin
03:39 PM roycroft: they seem to eat cheese curds there like we eat popcorn
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: the sauce/gravy should only soften the fries that come in direct contact with it
03:40 PM FinboySlick: Valid poutine opinion, really.
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: best Wisconsin poutine https://www.vanguardbar.com/
03:40 PM FinboySlick: You don't want it to be soggy, but I prefer when it isn't crunchy either.
03:41 PM roycroft: i wonder how poutine would be with vegan gravy
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: for me if the gravy has oil and lots of seasonings it would be fine as vegan
03:42 PM roycroft: i make a pretty good vegan gravy
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: as found in indian foods
03:42 PM FinboySlick: CaptHindsight: Hmmm... Looking at the menu I'm a tad skeptical. It sounds pretty good but I'm not sure it's in the 'spirit' of what a poutine is.
03:42 PM roycroft: it has olive oil, whole wheat flour, tamari, garlic, veggie broth, sage, salt, and pepper
03:43 PM roycroft: lots of the oil and lots of spice
03:43 PM roycroft: and lots and lots of garlic
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: yes, they focus on it being a comfort bar food after you have had a few/several
03:43 PM buzzmarshall is now known as no1b4me
03:43 PM FinboySlick: Poutine gravy is usually deglazing the bottom pan of a rotisserie rack ;)
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: true poutine, but these are poutine like snacks
03:44 PM roycroft: the real difficulty around here is getting cheese curds
03:44 PM roycroft: the vegan gravy part would probably work out fine
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: fries, sauce, curds and optional extras
03:44 PM roycroft: but i'd have to go back east, probably a least to montana, to find cheese curds
03:44 PM FinboySlick: Yeah. Ashtons is a chain around Quebec city and they had to close their Montreal locations because it was too far to get morning-fresh curds.
03:44 PM FinboySlick: That's just 2h away.
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: they have curds at most gas stations in Wisconsin
03:45 PM no1b4me is now known as buzzmarshall
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: vacuum packed varieties
03:45 PM buzzmarshall: afternoon all
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: so not the same as same day curds
03:46 PM CaptHindsight: hi buzzmarshall
03:46 PM buzzmarshall: jeese... if i want cheese i'll have some cheese, just not my idea of stickking them on fries
03:46 PM buzzmarshall: lol
03:46 PM buzzmarshall: hi there
03:47 PM buzzmarshall: next we'll be having newfie fries as they add the corn and peas to them as well
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: i recently discovered a polish variety of ketchup
03:47 PM buzzmarshall: lol
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: tastes like tomatoes
03:47 PM roycroft: traditional catsup was not 90% hfcs
03:47 PM roycroft: the sugar content has been increasing over the years
03:48 PM roycroft: because we are america
03:48 PM roycroft: and we like big butts and we cannot lie
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pVHG3%2B%2B%2BL._SX425_.jpg
03:49 PM buzzmarshall: hm... that kinda looks like the type of catsup i seen in cuba just for the covid thing hit
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: also https://www.foodservicedirect.com/the-78-brand-spicy-ketchup-17-2-ounce-12-per-case-23001568.html
03:49 PM FinboySlick: https://ibackpackcanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/quebec-poutine-chez-ashton-3.jpg <-- That's pretty much spot-on.
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: but from Poland, very spicy
03:50 PM buzzmarshall: they were getting stuff from europe as a lot of the resort owners are european partnering with the cuba gov
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: FinboySlick: looks good
03:50 PM buzzmarshall: i didnt mind it but your right it was spicy then what i have had here in NA
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/39037-linuxcnc-orange-pi?start=40#178058
03:51 PM buzzmarshall: poutine sure has caught on here in Ont
03:51 PM roycroft: it's pizza night for me
03:52 PM roycroft: not the best food in the world
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: I was going to ask for clarification
03:52 PM roycroft: but it will be homemade
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: "we are confident that the heading signal should take precedence over the Pulse signal, so the error will go away."
03:52 PM roycroft: and probably more healthful than poutin
03:53 PM buzzmarshall: CaptHindsight: ya ive been kinda following that since you posted the link the other nite
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: https://gitlab.com/orangecnc not exactly sure from looking at the source for the arisc driver
03:54 PM buzzmarshall: what orangepi you playing with ? H2 or H3
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: I found an H3 from 7 years ago with LCNC already on it
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: a model no longer made, it only has 512MB of RAM, but still 4 core 1.2GHz
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: we tried to compile but it failed with what usually is a hardware problem
03:55 PM buzzmarshall: ya i seen a few online here in Ont and might grab one just to have
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: so it was in a paper box tossed around for the past few years so in dubious condition
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: anyway maybe you can make sense of it, I'm working on some QTPYVCP things
03:57 PM buzzmarshall: ive slowly started building my own linux distro, or well i should say adapt one i built a few years ago
03:57 PM buzzmarshall: i wanted to ask as looking on line i seem to find conflicting answers
03:57 PM buzzmarshall: does LCNC require x-windows
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/NTULINUX/toolchain_builder
03:58 PM buzzmarshall: ive been looking the qt driven stuff and thinking bout bypassing x-windows altogether
03:59 PM buzzmarshall: and if all i want is a basic controller i don't care about fancy graphics and the more i look at the python and qt driven stuff i think it would be fine for what i want
04:00 PM buzzmarshall: but some stuff ive read seem to imply xwindows is required while others imply it isnt
04:01 PM FinboySlick: It'd be more work because you have to design your own controls, but something SDL based like pygame might be interesting if you want good control over how much time the CPU spends managing the GUI.
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: it's my understanding that it has to be x-windows with whatever built on top
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: GTK, QT etc
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/code/LinuxCNC-block-diagram-small.png
04:04 PM buzzmarshall: so far i have peiced together a slim linux build thats console driven and i am adding the tool chains to build on target
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: NML is currently the only way to interface to a GUI, machinekit did work on starting to change that
04:04 PM buzzmarshall: nice... i didnt see that before
04:05 PM FinboySlick: And nml depends on xwindows?
04:05 PM buzzmarshall: https://github.com/UnfinishedBusiness/Xmotion#readme
04:05 PM buzzmarshall: he says you don't need xwindows
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: not exactly sure of how and why but I think it is with the way it's currently written
04:06 PM buzzmarshall: someone in #hazzy the other day posted some video in russian of a gui
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: maybe ask in #linuxcnc-devel
04:06 PM buzzmarshall: then posted this github which to me seems unrelated but said it was the sources for the video link he posted
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: not sure how they hook into LCNC
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: haven't ever dug into that myself
04:07 PM buzzmarshall: k...
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: #hazzy devs might know as well
04:08 PM buzzmarshall: python and qt can run without xwindows
04:09 PM buzzmarshall: running x-windows is no biggy if i have to go that way but i would prefer to try without while i am working on getting my bbb to boot off a ssd drive
04:09 PM buzzmarshall: i can live with the 512 cap on the bbb for sram but the 4g emmc i don't like
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: i actually try to limit my coding to what maybe be done with a soldering iron
04:09 PM buzzmarshall: lol
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: in fact I'd rather hold the wrong end of one than write code
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: just not my favorite activity
04:11 PM buzzmarshall: ive no probs with low level coding and creating drivers and stuff
04:11 PM buzzmarshall: but from a graphics point i am in relative newbie land
04:11 PM buzzmarshall: but the qt api seems pretty elaborate and python is something i can muck my way thru
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: the RTAI dev was working on a magic free toolchain builder ^^
04:12 PM roycroft: i think my wifi nightmare is almost over
04:12 PM roycroft: as soon as this radio joins the mesh i'll have a verified solution
04:13 PM roycroft: and next week i'll have free wifi for all the school children in the city where i work
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: buzzmarshall: it was for things like what you want to do, build a small dedicated distro without any magic
04:18 PM buzzmarshall: sorry was looking at something else in his github, but i don't use magic in my current setup either
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: Bootable ARM64 Root Filesystem, codename: Barf
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: if you add a texture to a 3D model in Blender can you export that model with the texture into IGES or STEP?
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: say you want a 3D model of a part along with a wrinkle finish
04:53 PM Tom_L: i doubt it
04:55 PM andypugh: Anyone seen Pinky recently?
04:55 PM Tom_L: not for a while
04:55 PM XXCoder: how about Brain?
04:55 PM andypugh: Saw this and though of her: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Verdict-Type-A-Lever-Type-Dial-Test-Indicator-DTI-0005/114445777183
04:55 PM XXCoder: whats up
04:56 PM XXCoder: lol
04:56 PM XXCoder: pink comes on discord once a while
04:56 PM XXCoder: ill link that
04:57 PM Tom_L: Sep 28 13:08:29 * pink_vampire has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.9.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
04:57 PM Tom_L: last entry in my log
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: yeah see her somewhere but forget where, maybe discord
04:58 PM roycroft: that looks a lot like a starrett last word, except for the pinkness
04:58 PM XXCoder: last word? dont they still make em?
04:58 PM roycroft: which may be an illusion
04:58 PM _unreal_: I have most of the wiring setupso far
04:59 PM _unreal_: with luck this weekend I'll get the last of the needed wiring to get the machine moving
04:59 PM roycroft: i don't know if they still make them
04:59 PM roycroft: mine is decades old
04:59 PM roycroft: as are a lot of folks'
05:00 PM roycroft: it's the weekend!
05:00 PM roycroft: and i got the wifi stuff worked out
05:00 PM roycroft: just in time
05:00 PM XXCoder: mines just 5 years old in most case lol
05:00 PM jymmmm: Capt yeah, pinky is on discord
05:01 PM XXCoder: one caliper just 2 years old, and one mic 60 years old in least
05:01 PM roycroft: haha
05:02 PM roycroft: my ssh sessions to the wifi radios all timed out just as i was getting ready to log out
05:02 PM roycroft: i guess they know it's the weekend
05:03 PM XXCoder: roy my old mic is my favorite. it comes with real old wood box. ir predates hardened tips too lol
05:04 PM Tom_L: better not use it to measure carbide endmills then :)
05:04 PM XXCoder: im pretty sure its hardened, but not carbide tips klike current ones
05:06 PM _unreal_: so its driving me crazy, I built a bunch of modules for the motor controller for some other project and I'm not using them on the NEW MILL build and I cant for the life of me remember what some of the design features were for.....
05:07 PM buzzmarshall: ive a few old starretts in wooden boxes as well
05:07 PM buzzmarshall: things never wear out
05:07 PM buzzmarshall: nobody makes stuff like that anymore
05:09 PM XXCoder: still is made actually. just expensive!
05:10 PM XXCoder: income compared to cost have crashed a lot across time
05:13 PM buzzmarshall: ya theres lots of cheaper asian stuff around
05:13 PM buzzmarshall: ive just got a ton of old stuff from back in the day when starrett was the best and one of the few around
05:14 PM buzzmarshall: used to do a lot of engine blueprinting and balancing back then
05:14 PM buzzmarshall: when cars were really cars and bikes where bikes
05:14 PM buzzmarshall: lol
05:18 PM buzzmarshall: on another note... how big is rtai these days? its been awhile since i last looked at any of the real time extensions for linux as i had no need
05:19 PM buzzmarshall: but was under the impression rtai was kinda lagging behind these days
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: big as far as microkernel size?
05:19 PM buzzmarshall: popularity
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: it's currently broken, the RTAI dev here just left or you could ask him
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: not really popular since it takes a bit of skill to properly build
05:20 PM buzzmarshall: k... thats what i was seeing in some of the info ive been reading trying to play catchup on linuxcnc
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: the creator doesn't have much time for it and does not seem to appreciate help
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: so we forked it and cleaned it up
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: then work slowed down, funding dried up
05:22 PM buzzmarshall: seems like the rt_preempt or xenomai are mentioned as the most used
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: works fine on some systems, has an issues when loading on others
05:22 PM buzzmarshall: awe
05:23 PM buzzmarshall: ive never really messed with any of them but am under the impression they are just patches to the linux kernel to better suit how it handles interrupts
05:23 PM CaptHindsight: RTAI is different in that it uses a second micro kernel
05:24 PM buzzmarshall: anything ive ever needed to do that was timing critical i just patched in the kernel
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: the others are just patches
05:24 PM buzzmarshall: aw
05:24 PM buzzmarshall: hows the second micro kernel work?
05:25 PM buzzmarshall: is like some type of scheduler that sits ontop of the system?
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: yes
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-three-different-implementations-of-the-cokernel-approach-a-RTAI-b-Xenomai-and_fig2_331290349
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Architecture-of-the-RTAI-HAL-Linux-kernel_fig5_230995988
05:29 PM buzzmarshall: feb 2018 looks like the last rtai from their repo
05:29 PM buzzmarshall: who's got a more recent fork or clone?
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: the git i posted earlier
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: cleaned up version
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: removed about 500k lines of cruft
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: or someother big silly number of lines
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: porting to arm64 could be useful
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: but time consuming
05:33 PM buzzmarshall: k... thats what i was looking at when you posted that about the non magic stuff
05:33 PM buzzmarshall: i'll fork that and when i get some time start looking at it
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: nobody wants to pay to have it done right
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: they all seem to not mind using broken magic
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: seems to be the state of Linux in general
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: hack it out, go on to the next job
05:35 PM buzzmarshall: forked... at least looks newer then rtai's
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: it's the version we used until about a year or two ago when something broke
05:35 PM buzzmarshall: i guess for the bulk of the embedded stuff on linux these days the real time stuff isn't a big enough want on anyones list
05:36 PM buzzmarshall: normally i would just work in-tree and do my own stuff but recently i started to learn the git thing and stop working in-tree
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/37154-linuxcnc-often-freezes-hard-on-rtai-4-14-132
05:37 PM buzzmarshall: time to catchup to the world i quess
05:37 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, I bet that person has an older PC with failing CAPS on the motherboard
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: people use Yocto
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: _unreal_: was happening on the buildbot and then verified even by the RTAI founder
05:39 PM buzzmarshall: ya i looked at yocto and started my own amlogic stuff
05:39 PM buzzmarshall: then i decided not to bother
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: heh, yeah
05:39 PM buzzmarshall: neat idea tho
05:39 PM buzzmarshall: yocto that is
05:39 PM buzzmarshall: im to old school for that
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: there was another magic build toolchain for ARM
05:40 PM _unreal_: dont even know a thing about it? yocto
05:40 PM buzzmarshall: its kinda like buildroot on steriods
05:41 PM buzzmarshall: nice idea and if i was learning all over i would definately look at using it
05:41 PM buzzmarshall: i like the modularity it gives you
05:41 PM buzzmarshall: ive been hacking and building linux and bsd since slackware was introduced back around 93
05:42 PM buzzmarshall: so its hard to change old habbits and learn new things as i can't justify the learning curve time
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: why all this stuff ends up being unstable junk on ARM
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: nobody wants to do it right
05:42 PM buzzmarshall: just easier to muck around
05:42 PM buzzmarshall: your right
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: they treat the OS like it just works
05:43 PM buzzmarshall: most of my buds are all the same way as we don't put much in the public these days so the concerns of public code aren't high on my list
05:43 PM buzzmarshall: people like me shouldn't because it just ads to the garbage online
05:44 PM CaptHindsight: Wind River sells a linux distro for $1m for embedded and it's broken
05:44 PM buzzmarshall: personally i luv open source but in light of all the commercial hi-jacking most my age don't bother
05:44 PM buzzmarshall: ya i got a bunch of old wind river crap
05:45 PM CaptHindsight: yup
05:45 PM buzzmarshall: they were in the debuging industry for awhile
05:45 PM CaptHindsight: the RTAI dev saved a large OEM the $1m and then they let him go
05:45 PM buzzmarshall: there another thats all about money
05:46 PM buzzmarshall: ya that really bytes
05:46 PM buzzmarshall: i hate when i see that
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: all i can say it i would not trust a Canon MRI machine on my images
05:46 PM buzzmarshall: thats why even tho a few of us have had the gpu and other stuff fixed for linux on the aml and rockchip boxes never post
05:47 PM buzzmarshall: why enable them to scab it and sell more boxes
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
05:47 PM buzzmarshall: Amlogic is the worst
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: no thank you even
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: we got a email from a sound card co after fixing their drivers
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: not even was offered a free sound card, just asked us to fix more
05:48 PM buzzmarshall: ya for sure
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: just rotten people
05:48 PM buzzmarshall: and worse still is some take your code and stick it into their stuff and then release binary blobs trying to hide behind what they've done
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: just take take take
05:48 PM buzzmarshall: a lot of chinese makers are bad for that
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: common from my work there
05:49 PM buzzmarshall: disassemble their blobs and you can find others work in their stuff
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: left China a few years ago and didn't go back
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: they gave us $ and space but then tried to not even be sneaky about taking stuff
05:50 PM buzzmarshall: Open source is a great idea but the pilfering is the downside
05:50 PM buzzmarshall: thats the one thing about bsd type of licencing as you can work out in the open without exposing your sources
05:51 PM buzzmarshall: just most of the few i hang with know or like bsd
05:51 PM buzzmarshall: lol
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: been using it more and more here
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: linux is also getting corporatized
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: crappy distros
05:52 PM buzzmarshall: a couple of us created a LE type of version for Freebsd about 2 uears ago
05:53 PM buzzmarshall: it was gonna be released but after all the social crap and people saying it couldn't be done we never released it
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: linux admins seem to be relying on all sorts of closed tools
05:53 PM buzzmarshall: for sure... any black hat types use linux
05:54 PM buzzmarshall: specially if your into network hacking
05:54 PM buzzmarshall: theres things that if you understand how the stack and protocols work that can be done using linux that normally companies try and sell propriatary software for
05:55 PM buzzmarshall: same as software dev
05:56 PM buzzmarshall: im not a high level app developer for anything like winblows
05:56 PM buzzmarshall: i just work mostly on microcontrollers and started at 8bit level and went up from there but never really ventured outside that market other then to do RE work
05:57 PM CaptHindsight: i just started liking it all less and less
05:57 PM CaptHindsight: i tend to stay way on the hardware side
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: i used to design motherboards for embedded and supercomputers
05:58 PM buzzmarshall: cool
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: mostly x86 but ARM, MIPS, Alpha as well
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: tried to limit coding to BIOS
05:59 PM CaptHindsight: bootloaders
05:59 PM buzzmarshall: theres easily at least a dozen machines here running on my network round the clock and there all linux except one imac and one pc
06:00 PM buzzmarshall: i use the pc primarily just to run IdaPro and the mac is just cause i was always a mac guy
06:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/b4zPwKo project earlier in the week
06:01 PM CaptHindsight: Rpi4 controlling a 4K DLP printer
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: still no magic combo for stable 4k 60fps
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: oh sorry it was running the Gentoo arm64
06:02 PM CaptHindsight: just not yet for the LCNC img
06:03 PM andypugh: I do all my LinuxCNC development sat physicaly at my Mac.
06:04 PM andypugh: Nice thing to sit behind, lovely 27” monitor, let the remote machines do the crashing.
06:04 PM CaptHindsight: I'm off, have a nice weekend
06:05 PM buzzmarshall: you too
06:07 PM buzzmarshall: i had apples before i had a pc and always liked apple machines
06:07 PM buzzmarshall: i like the motorolla processors as the princeton architecture was easier for me understand when i started
06:09 PM buzzmarshall: then when atmel appeared i started messing around with risc and came to like them
06:09 PM buzzmarshall: just to bad they never made anything better as i am a big fan of their 8 and 16 bit stuff but find their arm dabbling kinda useless
06:10 PM buzzmarshall: if ones gonna mess with Arm i personally prefer a St or something else
06:10 PM andypugh: Well, they have gone beyond dabbling now.
06:12 PM andypugh: Though how Apple going to ARM and Nvidia buying ARM works out might be interesting. Possibly ends with Apple buying Nvidia.
06:13 PM buzzmarshall: ive not messed much with Atmel since Microchip bought them
06:14 PM buzzmarshall: ya the Arm and Nvidia thing is going to be interesting
06:14 PM buzzmarshall: i could see Apple end up buying Nvidia
06:14 PM FinboySlick: It'll be interesting to see when we have 6 or 7 world corporations.
06:14 PM buzzmarshall: Apple would be big enough to but whether Nvidia would ever sell i don't know
06:15 PM buzzmarshall: they've been dominating the gpu market next to Amd for so many years now i wonder what happens when you become so big and theres no one smaller to buy anymore
06:16 PM andypugh: I bought Apples in the 90s. (and the 80s) But in the 90s it was unthinkable that Apple would be one of those 6 or 7. They were a dead duck.
06:16 PM buzzmarshall: but with the embedded devices really growing who knows
06:16 PM buzzmarshall: lol... i member those days as well
06:17 PM buzzmarshall: ive followed the pair of steves since they started and always thought they were the way to go
06:17 PM buzzmarshall: but there were lots that thought the other way
06:18 PM buzzmarshall: Apples sure had its ups and downs over the years but their idea of branding and end-to-end created a hard core and loyal following that always seemed to allow them to get thru the tought times
06:18 PM andypugh: I have occasionally wondered about porting LinuxCNC to Mac. Simulator is probably do-able. Realtime, I really don’t know.
06:18 PM FinboySlick: When companies become large enough to have their own ecosystem it gets bad for industry because there's no real point in defining and adhering to standards.
06:19 PM Tom_L: does apple even have any realtime kernels?
06:19 PM FinboySlick: Cisco and Microsoft are pretty good examples of this.
06:19 PM buzzmarshall: i agree with your sentiments on big corps
06:19 PM andypugh: Mac has a realtime layer, but I know _nothing_ about it. But now we support Ethernet hardware, it might even work.
06:20 PM buzzmarshall: with Apple on Intels now i am not sure how hard it would be to port lcnc to mac
06:20 PM Tom_L: andypugh, are you trying to dream up new projects?
06:20 PM FinboySlick: andypugh is always starved for things to do ;)
06:20 PM buzzmarshall: haha
06:21 PM andypugh: Tom_L: Yes, beceause I have no more than 50 years of projects in the queue already.
06:21 PM FinboySlick: andypugh: Well, if one of those is extending your life another 100 years, you're in the clear.
06:22 PM andypugh: I hadn’t realised until a friend pointed it out, my most recent YouTube video is as long as some feature films. No wonder it took so long to edit. And so far average viewing length is 6 minutes.
06:22 PM FinboySlick: I guess if you can train your brain to output gcode, with the current state of neural interfaces you might have a chance at going cyborg.
06:26 PM buzzmarshall: lol
06:26 PM buzzmarshall: biab... gotta go fix a compile that just broke
06:33 PM FinboySlick: andypugh: Did you rent that rotary hammer, or is this something you keep handy?
06:33 PM andypugh: It cost me £50 25 years ago.
06:34 PM FinboySlick: That's how much it cost me to rent one last week :P
06:34 PM FinboySlick: For 4h.
06:34 PM andypugh: Tools now are _cheap_
06:35 PM andypugh: They have gone up. But not much: https://www.diy.com/departments/performance-power-850w-240v-corded-sds-drill-prh850c/3663602794790_BQ.prd
06:35 PM FinboySlick: core-drilling horizontally is very difficult when you weigh about 140 pounds though.
06:36 PM andypugh: I wouldn’t know, I weigh rather more
06:36 PM FinboySlick: I ended up rigging levers with lumber so I could apply enough pressure to get something out of the drill.
06:36 PM FinboySlick: Took 3 hours to do 8 inches :P
06:37 PM andypugh: I drilled the hole and killed the drill in about 1.5 hours. But that was working vertically and rotary only (diamond drill)
06:38 PM FinboySlick: Yeah, It was a 2.5" diamond core drill for me too. The drill the rental place gave me didn't have a hammer function (so people don't destroy their diamond drills I would guess).
06:38 PM andypugh: I drilled a 3’ hole through a stone wall a few years ago with a proper diamond drill owned by a neighbour of my parents (where the hole was required) but I was at it all day.
06:39 PM FinboySlick: It did have through spindle water cooling/flushing though.
06:39 PM FinboySlick: I find that it's hard but rather fun work.
06:40 PM andypugh: My big one was 127mm dia (toilet pipe) through a 3’ stone wall.
06:40 PM andypugh: And slightly below floor level, for drainage.
06:40 PM FinboySlick: The positioning must have sucked.
06:40 PM andypugh: That last point made it a lot harder
06:41 PM FinboySlick: Mine was flush to a wall and ceiling. Was hard finding a drill that would let me do it.
06:41 PM FinboySlick: (drill tends to be wider than the hole)
06:41 PM andypugh: (and I do mean 3 feet. This is a houes built in 1450)
06:42 PM FinboySlick: So half stone half concrete? ;)
06:44 PM andypugh: Well, that’s actually an interesting thing, which made the job rather harder.
06:44 PM _unreal_: finally getting closer
06:44 PM Tom_L: largest one i've drilled was 1'
06:44 PM _unreal_: right now working on getting all the wires documented
06:44 PM _unreal_: as I wire everything up
06:44 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, i've got a book on mine
06:45 PM Tom_L: recently went back thru and made another document showing all pins and wire colors etc
06:45 PM _unreal_: thats what I'm doing right now
06:45 PM _unreal_: just so I can hook it up
06:45 PM Tom_L: and if they change color at a plug etc
06:46 PM _unreal_: I have to work tomorrow BUT
06:46 PM _unreal_: I'm hoping to get the machine to move this weekend with luck
06:46 PM _unreal_: still have to finish z though
06:46 PM _unreal_: hardware that is
06:47 PM Tom_L: somewhere there's a timing chart for stepper drivers
06:47 PM _unreal_: ?
06:47 PM andypugh: The walls are fieldstone, bedded in clay. Most stones are vaguely triangular with the point into the wall, as two skins, then the middle is filled with less-carefully bedded stones that didn’t quite make the cut for the external surfaces. And all bedded in basically the local mud, rather than mortar.
06:47 PM _unreal_: I'm wondering if I should just drop the the micro stepping to the lowest the driver supports 1/8th
06:48 PM Tom_L: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
06:48 PM andypugh: So a lot of time was spent extracting the drill and dealing with the loose stones that had fallen in to the hole.
06:48 PM _unreal_: because its belt drive DRIVING dual threaded rods its 8 teeth to 48 teeth
06:49 PM andypugh: More than 1/8 is rarely worthwhile
06:49 PM _unreal_: currently its set to 1/16th
06:49 PM _unreal_: I'd prefer power
06:50 PM _unreal_: torque and max RPM on the setppers
06:50 PM _unreal_: sigh....
06:50 PM _unreal_: going to be a bitch to get that plate out
06:50 PM Tom_L: are your drivers leadshine?
06:50 PM _unreal_: I'm using the setup I started some time ago
06:50 PM _unreal_: https://www.ebay.com/p/21037462821?iid=254590201506&chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=254590201506&targetid=935083617547&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9012012&poi=&campaignid=10877432047&mkgroupid=112821775411&rlsatarget=pla-935083617547&abcId=9300402&merchantid=108434799&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5eX7BRDQARIsAMhYLP_noUIBcyd6lq_HkvGms7-HOszirtILa-7OBzYrLYrFRE3HD1D6sVMaAhmiEALw_wcB
06:50 PM _unreal_: thats the kind of driver I have
06:51 PM Tom_L: they look like it
06:51 PM _unreal_: OH half stepping also
06:51 PM Tom_L: i'd probably start with leadshine timing
06:51 PM _unreal_: what do you think 1/8th or 1/2 stepping?
06:51 PM _unreal_: ?
06:51 PM Tom_L: 1/8
06:51 PM _unreal_: less noise?
06:51 PM _unreal_: hehe
06:51 PM _unreal_: 400 oz/in
06:52 PM Tom_L: i dunno, mine are 570 using the geckos @ 1/10
06:52 PM _unreal_: micro stepping will cut the noise way down
06:52 PM Tom_L: and torque
06:54 PM Tom_L: andypugh, i thought you meant a 3' diameter hole :D
06:54 PM Tom_L: and couldn't figure out what would need that
06:54 PM _unreal_: a really big ass
06:55 PM andypugh: Quite a small ass. But quite a big dog. And a huge weasel
06:55 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/patio/patio5.jpg
06:55 PM Tom_L: 12" but not nearly as deep
06:55 PM _unreal_: now you just need to build the out house around it
07:02 PM _unreal_: pcw_home, how would you suggest setting up the limit switches? one t each end in series? OR in parallel with two signals to indicate which one has been contacted
07:02 PM _unreal_: and use two I/O's PER AXIS
07:03 PM Tom_L: i use 2 per
07:03 PM Tom_L: except z
07:03 PM Tom_L: you can set up soft limits in the ini as well
07:08 PM _unreal_: 2 per?
07:09 PM Tom_L: X + -, Y+ -, Z+
07:09 PM _unreal_: but do you use two signals as well per axis?
07:09 PM Tom_L: but i still set up soft limits
07:09 PM _unreal_: or are the +/- tied in series
07:10 PM Tom_L: one per io
07:10 PM _unreal_: ok so your using two I/O per axis
07:10 PM Tom_L: yep
07:11 PM Tom_L: but i've got 72 io to work with
07:11 PM Tom_L: and if you think you'll run short, run them in series
07:11 PM Tom_L: per axis
07:11 PM _unreal_: there is a control board on the right https://forum.linuxcnc.org/media/kunena/attachments/26864/cncsetup_2020-04-20.jpeg
07:11 PM _unreal_: any idea what it is?
07:12 PM _unreal_: I have plenty of I/O
07:12 PM _unreal_: 7i96
07:12 PM Tom_L: plasma touch off
07:12 PM Tom_L: board
07:13 PM Tom_L: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=69_72&product_id=127
07:15 PM _unreal_: does masa make a board for driving VFD's? for spindles?
07:15 PM _unreal_: or is there an RS-422 HAL for that yet?
07:16 PM Tom_L: there are various vfd components you can load
07:16 PM Tom_L: physical boards i'm sure he has something
07:16 PM roycroft: i forget what mesa boards i have, because it's been a while since i bought them and i still haven't installed them, but i remember that the stuff i bought can talk to a vfd and to pendants
07:17 PM _unreal_: MY vfd has an rs422 interface.
07:17 PM _unreal_: would be nice to wire it into the 7i96 rather then use an extra card or adapter
07:18 PM Tom_L: the 7i47 has differential IO RS422
07:18 PM Tom_L: i've got a couple of those
07:19 PM Tom_L: https://mesaus.com/product/7i47s/
07:19 PM Tom_L: i'm sure he's got others
07:19 PM Tom_L: i'm using them single ended
07:19 PM Tom_L: with a resistor divider
07:20 PM Tom_L: but they're also used for sserial io
07:20 PM _unreal_: ya I'm not sure what the specs etc... are
07:21 PM _unreal_: My driver is the HY01D511B
07:23 PM Tom_L: what card did you have?
07:23 PM Tom_L: 7i96?
07:23 PM _unreal_: My maine thing is I'd prefer to use thee serial interface so that I can get feed back on the rpm etc...
07:23 PM _unreal_: yes
07:24 PM _unreal_: oh RS485 SORRY
07:24 PM Tom_L: you could get an adapter
07:24 PM Tom_L: i dunno the difference
07:24 PM Tom_L: both are differential i think
07:25 PM Tom_L: the serial expansion port on yours is RS422/485
07:25 PM Tom_L: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=311&search=7i96
07:25 PM Tom_L: A RS-422/RS485 serial expansion port and a parallel expansion port.
07:26 PM Tom_L: you may not need anything extra
07:28 PM Tom_L: The biggest difference between RS422 and RS485 is how they communicate with devices on a single pair of differential wires. RS422: Each Bus only offers One-way communication. ... RS485: Each Bus offers Two-way communication. Multiple devices can share a single pair of wires.
07:29 PM Tom_L: so the driver would handle the communication, you just map the pins and make sure the driver is compatible with your vfd
07:31 PM _unreal_: HUM
07:33 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/hy_gt_vfd.1.html
07:33 PM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/hy_vfd.1.html
07:33 PM Tom_L: one of those might get you close
07:34 PM Tom_L: there are a few others
07:39 PM _unreal_: good lord. a 9v 200ma battery on thos 400/oz-in batteries locks it stupid tight
07:40 PM Tom_L: ja
07:40 PM Tom_L: careful, what are the coil voltages?
07:41 PM _unreal_: ?
07:41 PM JavaBean: its only "locked stupid tight" until you get a bigger pipe
07:41 PM _unreal_: careful what are the voltage? I'm not sure what your getting at
07:41 PM _unreal_: JavaBean, true
07:42 PM _unreal_: I dont see how a 9v battery could do anything to the motor when the motor drivers are running at 36v lol
07:48 PM Tom_L: but they are chopper drivers
07:48 PM Tom_L: although 200ma probably wouldn't do much
08:05 PM renesis: yeah 9V batteries are pretty wuss
08:06 PM renesis: why theyre used to check polarity on speakers a lot, source impedance keeps them from burning anything up
08:44 PM _unreal_: X AND Y are " " wired up
08:45 PM _unreal_: now I just have a shit ton of wires in the control box to deal with
08:45 PM _unreal_: and I have to undo the mount with the 7i96 so I can access the motor controllers just so I can drop them to 1/8th stepping
09:06 PM JavaBean: should probably upgrade your stepper controllers to 1/1024 microstepping, _unreal_
09:07 PM * Tom_L sets JavaBean on a merry go round and spins it at 10k rpm
09:14 PM JavaBean: And WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
09:14 PM JavaBean: beep
09:59 PM skunkworks: wow - I think I am writing a rube goldberg comp
10:00 PM Tom_L: you're just figuring that out?