#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 29 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:03 AM Deejay: moin
02:24 AM jymmmm: 2 day blackout over, still on evacuation warning
02:24 AM XXCoder: whats happening there
02:24 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: fire
02:25 AM XXCoder: calfornia still fire?
02:25 AM XXCoder: or different place?
02:25 AM jymmmm: still the same fure for like a few weeks, new hotspots
02:26 AM jymmmm: fire*
02:55 AM jymmmm: It sucks having to have everythng packed and ready to evacuate knowing my may never return.
02:55 AM jymmmm: s/my/you/
02:55 AM XXCoder: not great :(
02:56 AM jymmmm: Yeah, and of course you can't grab/pack everything
02:57 AM XXCoder: you'd need inside is bigger tech for that
02:58 AM jymmmm: say that again?
02:58 AM XXCoder: one of doctor who tech heh
02:59 AM jymmmm: oh, heh.
02:59 AM XXCoder: bag of holding
02:59 AM jymmmm: Well, I'm sorta kinda working on that, but it'll take time.
02:59 AM XXCoder: man I'd love to have game inverory system in real world
03:00 AM jymmmm: If I go this whole sprinter van thing, it would be possible
03:00 AM rs[m]: jymmmm: when working on dr. who stuff, first solve the time machine thingy, then you have enough time to develop the bigger inside stuff
03:00 AM XXCoder: good plan
03:01 AM jymmmm: rs[m]: Yeah, I have a ebay bid on a time machine
03:03 AM XXCoder: anyway i hope we find a way to enclose big space
03:03 AM XXCoder: then have small container for it
03:11 AM jymmmm: Ran the generator for 20 hours non stop, did well and when I changed the oil it really wasn't bad at all
03:14 AM CaptHindsight: what bits types do you use for drilling holes in <1/4" thick acrylic?
03:14 AM jymmmm: I could suggest plastic tooling, but not specific drillbits
03:16 AM jymmmm: how rude! lol
03:16 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: https://www.onsrud.com/articles/O-Flutes-For-Mechanical-Plastics.asp and http://www.plasticrouting.com/
03:18 AM CaptHindsight: sorry, hit the wrong key combo
03:18 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: https://www.onsrud.com/articles/O-Flutes-For-Mechanical-Plastics.asp and http://www.plasticrouting.com/
03:19 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: havr you tried them?
03:20 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: The cutters, yes very much so. work great. JT tried them too and cut his finger.
03:20 AM CaptHindsight: cuts acrylic and skin
03:20 AM jymmmm: and aluminum too
03:21 AM CaptHindsight: I changed the taper on a some dull 135-degree split points
03:22 AM jymmmm: of the onsrud tooling, I have 1/4" spiral up cut, and a v-carve bit
03:22 AM CaptHindsight: ground it to around 60 deg
03:22 AM CaptHindsight: I only have a few dozen to drill
03:23 AM CaptHindsight: was just wondering about production volumes of holes if drilledvs laser cut
03:23 AM CaptHindsight: drilled vs
03:24 AM jymmmm: laser also polished the hole
03:24 AM CaptHindsight: I have a waterjet and laser shop just down the street
03:25 AM CaptHindsight: onesey twosey I dfo in house
03:25 AM CaptHindsight: dfo/do
03:25 AM CaptHindsight: can't type worth a damn today
03:25 AM jymmmm: IDK for sure, but waterjet might scratch acrylic
03:25 AM CaptHindsight: we usually laser it
03:26 AM jymmmm: k
03:26 AM CaptHindsight: my panels are usually colored but see through
03:27 AM CaptHindsight: i have to deliver a machine tomorrow, have to cut and drill some acrylic sheet for windows
03:27 AM CaptHindsight: so no time for outside shops
03:28 AM jymmmm: ah
03:28 AM CaptHindsight: my problem is no matter how big I have a machine I always ned up with panels just a few inches larger than its travels
03:30 AM jymmmm: sounds like you need a infinity machine
03:30 AM CaptHindsight: paid $26 today for two cuts in 10ga aluminum sheet 26" wide since my shear could not handle it
03:30 AM CaptHindsight: last time they charged me $5
03:31 AM jymmmm: just to get you hooked, or maybe he was having a bad day
03:31 AM CaptHindsight: took them 2 minutes, he walked out and watched for my response
03:31 AM CaptHindsight: nah just being a dick
03:32 AM XXCoder: jym never order an infinity machine. you will get order + 1 and need to expand universe to fit new machien
03:33 AM CaptHindsight: I could have milled it but it saved me time
03:34 AM CaptHindsight: Sept 30 is the end of the quarter for budgets, so last minute rush orders to spend their left over $
03:37 AM CaptHindsight: LMT Onsrud, Waukegan, IL. so local for me
03:38 AM CaptHindsight: I lived about a mile from there many years ago
03:41 AM CaptHindsight: ever try a step drill in acrylic?
03:42 AM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/EH3u8m_kCu0?t=61
04:54 AM andypugh: XXCoder: Have you heard of Hilbert’s Hotel?
04:55 AM XXCoder: no?
04:56 AM andypugh: It’s relevant to your infinity machine comment.
04:57 AM XXCoder: oh yes its basic algorium that makes what looks like maze, and it can be ran forever
04:57 AM andypugh: No. That’s something else
04:57 AM XXCoder: oh wait not hilbert maze, its that hotel where ifone guest comes in full hotel and clerk just tells them to move to room 1, 1 to 2, on to forever
04:58 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:58 AM XXCoder: and infinite guests arrive? just everyone move to odd numbers and have new people go to evens
04:58 AM XXCoder: hey jt
04:58 AM andypugh: That’s the one.
04:58 AM XXCoder: man been while
06:03 AM Tom_L: morning
06:03 AM XXCoder: yo
07:23 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:19 AM jymmmm: morning
08:53 AM miss0r2: jymmmm: morning. You back on mains yet?
08:54 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: Yes, but still on evacuation warning, and by the sat maps it looks like it might be creeping closer to me.
08:55 AM miss0r2: the forrest fires?
08:55 AM jymmmm: ...as of 7 hours ago
08:55 AM jymmmm: yes
08:55 AM miss0r2: so, some uniformed gentlemen might come grap you any time?
08:56 AM jymmmm: Ha, nope
08:56 AM jymmmm: They just send an alert of get out now
09:00 AM roycroft: we're not in danger of fire right where i live, but we do have winds shifting from the northeast, and there are warnings that the smoke might return
09:00 AM jymmmm: smoke is the least of my worries
09:03 AM roycroft: yes, your life and property are more immediate concerns
09:04 AM roycroft: if you get the word, go
09:04 AM roycroft: with the way the winds have been, you may only have minutes to get out at most
09:05 AM jymmmm: It will take at miniumum an hour to get out of this area o a safe zone
09:09 AM jymmmm: the closest hotspot is 10.3 miles, not sure when that will be updated (next pass of a satalliete)
09:10 AM roycroft: the fire near eugene was moving at over 15mph when the winds were at their peak
09:10 AM roycroft: that's astonishingly fast
09:11 AM jymmmm: campfire 2018 moved a football field every second
09:20 AM jymmmm: so the fire moved 300 feet/second
09:25 AM roycroft: yeah, well that's what they get for not raking their forests, and for not forcing every single californian to vote for dear leader
11:30 AM andypugh: 2018 fire was the fault of the power line co.
11:30 AM andypugh: https://hackaday.com/2020/09/17/closely-examining-how-a-pge-transmission-line-claimed-85-lives-in-the-2018-camp-fire/
11:31 AM andypugh: On the face of it “fix the transmission line when there is a fault, let the breakers do their job” seems like a reasonable poilicy, except that they hadn’t considered at least one consequence of a failure.
11:44 AM roycroft: many of our large fires are due to problems with the power transmission infrastructure
11:44 AM roycroft: the camp fire is perhaps the most extreme example of that
11:44 AM roycroft: but it's by no means an isolated example
11:45 AM roycroft: that's the reason that california, and now oregon, implement intentional blackouts during high wind periods
11:45 AM roycroft: the real problem being that the utilities have neglected maintenance of the transmssion infrastructure for decades
11:47 AM andypugh: You mean that doesn’t automatically get solved by the Power of the Market? Who could possibly have predicted that?
11:47 AM roycroft: they've done such an appalingly horrible job of it that i became convinced some time ago that we need to put the transmission infracstructure in public hands, and let government operate them
11:47 AM roycroft: the power generation and end sales should still be a mixed public-private market, as it is currently
11:47 AM roycroft: but the transmission lines should be treated like roads and sewers
11:48 AM roycroft: have you ever read 'the wealth of nation'? andypugh?
11:49 AM roycroft: nations
11:50 AM andypugh: I haven’t.
11:51 AM roycroft: it's the "bible" of the so-called free market capitalists
11:51 AM roycroft: my copy is close to 700 pages long
11:51 AM andypugh: But going down that thought path reminds me of a funny thing i heard on the radio: “It rurns out that “Minecraft” isn’t Adolf Hitlers difficult second volume after all”
11:51 AM roycroft: the term "the invisible hand" that supposedly guides the market is used exactly one time in that book
11:52 AM roycroft: the remainder of the book talks about how free market capitlism doesn't work, is inherently subject to abuse, and how government needs to regulate markets to ensure fairness
11:52 AM roycroft: it's that whole context and nuance problem
11:53 AM roycroft: people tell me all the time how much they love capitalism and how superior it is to other economic systems
11:54 AM roycroft: my reply is always that i'd like to experience it some time, then i can form an opinion of it
11:54 AM roycroft: but our economy, as almost every economy on the planet, is a mixed one
11:56 AM roycroft: my boss is a classic case of short-sighted thinking
11:56 AM roycroft: he claims to be a libertarian
11:56 AM roycroft: and rants and moans about government constantly
11:56 AM roycroft: but he also complains about corporations acting unfairly in ways that harm his small business
11:57 AM roycroft: yet he thinks that government should no part in regulating corporations
11:57 AM roycroft: should have
11:58 AM roycroft: he's afraid that if government regulates corporations it will regulate him, and he's a good guy who does not need to be regulated
11:58 AM roycroft: i've been working for this guy in one form or another for 25+ years, and i still cannot comprehend how his mind works
11:59 AM andypugh: Which, oddly, is an odd position for a libetarian, who generally rail against the idea of “I am law-abiding so have nothing to fear from the law” in areas such as ID cards and surveilance.
11:59 AM roycroft: i'm of the "let's solve problems in the best way we can" school of thought, not the "i'm going to take a tribal/ideological position and force the world to fit my preferred reality" one
12:00 PM roycroft: i've never met a so-called libertarian who makes any sense to me
12:01 PM andypugh: I am a libetarian, on some levels. But also a pragmatist.
12:01 PM roycroft: not that the two groups are related, but we have a group of so-called "anarchists" here
12:01 PM andypugh: And I know that people, myself included, can’t be relied upon to do the right thing.
12:02 PM roycroft: a while back there were some protests/rioting in the streets
12:02 PM roycroft: the "anarchists" were destroying things
12:02 PM roycroft: they were stopping cars in the streets and smashing them with hammers
12:02 PM roycroft: they did that to one car, whose occupants were a family
12:02 PM andypugh: “Anarchism” is a much-misused word.
12:03 PM andypugh: (Including by many anarchists)
12:03 PM roycroft: the father got out of the car with a baseball bat and started beating on the "anarchists" who were damaging his car
12:03 PM roycroft: the "anarchists" were screaming for the police to protect them
12:03 PM roycroft: how does that work?
12:03 PM roycroft: you don't believe in authority but you beg for the help of that very authority?
12:04 PM roycroft: the eugene "anarchists" (that's what they call themselves) are just a bunch of young, entitled, white punks who are bored
12:04 PM roycroft: i don't call them that myself, hence the repeated use of the quotes
12:04 PM andypugh: I think that those “anarchists” were just “criminals” really. I don’t think that they were smashing card for political ends.
12:04 PM roycroft: exactly
12:05 PM andypugh: (And I am aware that that sounded just like Trump)
12:05 PM roycroft: and one of the indicators is that they claimed to be protesting corporate control of society
12:05 PM roycroft: and were demonstrating their disdain for large corporations by destroying small, locally-owned businesses
12:06 PM roycroft: actually that did not sound like trump at all
12:06 PM roycroft: he would have said "i think those anarchists are just criminal democrats"
12:07 PM roycroft: to him, it's a crime to not have voted for him, and a crime not to worship him
12:07 PM roycroft: and all criminals are democrats
12:07 PM roycroft: and all democrats are criminals
12:07 PM roycroft: of course, he used to be a democrat
12:07 PM roycroft: anyway
12:08 PM roycroft: if the power utilities won't take care of their transmissoin lines then it's time for them to be owned by the public
12:08 PM roycroft: that would also help with capacity issues
12:08 PM roycroft: we have plenty of power generating capacity
12:09 PM roycroft: but our grids are mostly in private hands, and it's often difficult or impossible to transport power from an area of excess capacity to an area that us underserved
12:10 PM roycroft: separating generation, transmission, and delivery and establishing mechanisms so that every power generator has access to every power consumer seems to me like it would increase competitoin and enable power generators to widen their markets
12:11 PM roycroft: and putting the transmission infrastructure into public hands would be a good, efficient means of doing that
12:12 PM roycroft: and it could help prevent many of the fires
12:12 PM andypugh: Over here that wouldn’t even be considered especially left-wing. I guess over there it is likely to get you shot as a socialist?
12:12 PM roycroft: or a communist
12:13 PM roycroft: or something
12:13 PM roycroft: i don't know
12:13 PM roycroft: in this country, socialst/communist is the same thing
12:13 PM roycroft: and socialists are also fascists here
12:13 PM roycroft: figure that one out
12:14 PM andypugh: Folk who don’t read Wikipedia.
12:14 PM roycroft: in the uk, obama would probably be a tory, as would bill clinton
12:15 PM roycroft: and certainlly joe biden would be
12:15 PM roycroft: not bojo tories
12:15 PM roycroft: he's not a tory
12:15 PM * roycroft is trying to remember when the uk last had a real tory prime minister
12:16 PM roycroft: do we go back to edward heath?
12:16 PM andypugh: Thatcher?
12:16 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that john major was even a real tory
12:17 PM andypugh: “Tory” is rather hard to define, I think it means “rebel” as they were in opposition to the “Whigs”
12:17 PM roycroft: but the point is, our "extreme left" is "centrist" or "right of center" in the rest of the world
12:17 PM roycroft: the term goes back to the civil war
12:17 PM roycroft: the tories were the monarchists
12:18 PM roycroft: and yeah, the were the anti-whigs
12:20 PM roycroft: btw, my boss hates the power company who serve the office (private), but loves the power company who serve his house (public utility district)
12:20 PM roycroft: but still hates government and everything about it
01:55 PM Thorhian: My machine did the LinuxCNC gCode yesterday! It's running!
01:56 PM Thorhian: I posted on the Forum, but is anyone familiar with getting NativeCAM running on a Raspbery Pi4 with LCNC? I tried getting the .deb but the install script didn't work lol
02:03 PM cpresser: "install-script" there is your problem :)
02:05 PM Thorhian: Oh, I was just following the instructions on the github page lol.
02:06 PM Thorhian: The documentation for NativeCAM seems kind of... lacking.
02:07 PM Thorhian: Have you dealt with this cpresser?
02:12 PM JT-Shop: the Rpi 4 may be missing libraries, I don't think anyone here uses nativecam
02:16 PM Thorhian: Ah, I see... It seemed useful to do simple tasks without manually programming it or going to my desktop for CAD/CAM crudd.
02:18 PM cpresser: Thorhian: no, not with this install-script. My comment was a general one. Most of the time install scripts don't work well. As soon as a single thing they assume to be set in stone changes (eg. some package got an update) they might fail.
02:19 PM Thorhian: Yeah, that's very true. Hence why I wish there was simply a link to a .deb instead of using a stupid install script lol.
02:20 PM cpresser: Thorhian: which error output did the install-script create? Were you able to understand it? (I have no clue how experienced you are with linux.)
02:21 PM Thorhian: That's the funny thing, the script didn't output any errors. It says it was successful. Pretty sure I should get rid of the lines in the script that through all of the command outputs to dev/null.
02:25 PM Thorhian: Yeah lol, the script thinks it's succesful but after deleting some of the /dev/null redirections, apt can't find the NativeCAM package to install lol
02:28 PM JT-Shop: I use conversational on my machines for simple tasks
02:29 PM Thorhian: Okay now I see, the script is trying to dynamically generate the repo link, but he doesn't have a raspbian repo for nativeCAM it seems.
02:29 PM Thorhian: Conversational JT-Shop? Is that open source or something you bought?
02:31 PM JT-Shop: well if you use Axis you can just use ngcgui http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gui/ngcgui.html
02:32 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, how's the spoke machine goin?
02:32 PM JT-Shop: I use QtPyVCP for my GUI so I just write my own conversational routines https://github.com/jethornton/mill_touch_v6
02:34 PM JT-Shop: slow lol, I'm actually making parts for it today, last week was a wash for it Monday install fence panels, Tuesday - Thursday wife had cataract removed and lens implant Friday and Monday getting a SBC to read tags in a CompacLogix PLC
02:40 PM JT-Shop: and the fence didn't go as smooth as I wanted, I have to make some special mounting brackets for a few spots as the stone work is a bit rough
02:41 PM Tom_L: still waiting for mill parts here
02:42 PM JT-Shop: what kind of parts?
02:43 PM Tom_L: sounds like you're having a busy week already
02:43 PM * JT-Shop just pulled some parts out of the PC oven
02:43 PM Tom_L: new spindle motor
02:43 PM JT-Shop: yea, I'm ready for some putzing around time
02:43 PM JT-Shop: water cooled?
02:43 PM Tom_L: no
02:43 PM Tom_L: 1.2kw
02:45 PM JT-Shop: got a link?
02:46 PM Tom_L: 5600 rpm bldc
02:46 PM Tom_L: phone...
02:47 PM JT-Shop: k
02:55 PM Tom_L: pm'd
03:12 PM Deejay: gn8
04:13 PM * JT-Shop prepares to call it a day... 12 minutes left on the PC and last part in the VMC
04:13 PM JavaBean: you are only allowed on the computer for certain amounts of time??? wtf?
04:35 PM jymmmm: Simple scanner (comes with ubuntu) found my scanner and worked nicely, no drama at all,
04:41 PM roycroft: this should be interesting
04:42 PM roycroft: i'm trying to give away all the wood chips i made while building my workbench
04:42 PM roycroft: all the ones i could not use myself (they are perfect for mulching in the garden)
04:42 PM roycroft: i wonder how hard it will be to give them away
04:42 PM roycroft: the last time i did this people were demanding that i drive tens of miles to deliver them for free
04:43 PM roycroft: they are all bagged and ready to go - a person could stuff a couple bags in the trunk of their car without making a mess
04:44 PM Tom_L: don't call those same ppl
04:44 PM roycroft: i'm not calling anyone
04:45 PM roycroft: i'm posting on craigslist in the free stuff section
04:51 PM * JT-Shop puts sawdust in the compost pile with the chicken poop
04:52 PM JT-Shop: JavaBean, PC == Powder Coat
04:59 PM roycroft: anyway, it seems like free isn't good enough for folks any more
05:02 PM JavaBean: have you considered making "mdf" out of your saw dust?? can be good for jigs/fiztures
05:05 PM Loetmichel: JavaBean: you need lots of pressure AND heat for MDF
05:06 PM Loetmichel: Unless i am mistaken there is no glue used in making them, just enough pressure and heat to start melting the lignin to act as a glue
05:07 PM roycroft: mdf contains resin
05:08 PM roycroft: and yes, pressure and heat are required
05:08 PM roycroft: the shavings are perfect for garden mulch
05:08 PM roycroft: and someone just called and said she wants all of them for that very purpose, and is willing to pick them up tomorrow
05:09 PM roycroft: so maybe this time i found the right person
05:10 PM * Loetmichel helped a Window company in germany a few decades back that used their mahagony and other wood framing shavings to heat the shop
05:11 PM roycroft: you are thinking of hdf, loetmichel
05:11 PM Loetmichel: they had a gargantuan shavings silo and a furnace for central heating that ran of that
05:11 PM roycroft: which is made of exploded wood fiber
05:11 PM roycroft: and no binder
05:11 PM roycroft: hdf is commonly known as hardboard here
05:11 PM roycroft: tempered hardboard is impregated with boiled linseed oil
05:12 PM roycroft: which is not actually boiled any more
05:12 PM roycroft: it uses heavy metal driers
05:12 PM roycroft: but standard hdf/hardboard is just wood fibers that are exploded with steam, then heated and compressed under extremely high pressure
05:13 PM roycroft: well
05:13 PM roycroft: maybe one would consider it very high pressure, not extremely high pressure
05:15 PM JavaBean: seen some people on youtube just pressing sawdust and woodglue and makeing interesting stuffs
05:15 PM JavaBean: didn't look powdery or junk. just looked like mdf
05:15 PM JavaBean: saw a different video of someone who did that with cardboard
05:19 PM roycroft: mdf is cheap to buy
05:20 PM roycroft: it would cost me a lot more to make something resembling it, even if i could
05:20 PM roycroft: i just want this stuff gone
05:20 PM roycroft: i used as much as i could to mulch
05:21 PM roycroft: i'll need more in a few weeks, but my dust collector bag is fairly full already, and i'll be making more chips soon
05:21 PM roycroft: hopefully the person will show up tomorrow
05:21 PM JavaBean: it was done in custom shapes/forms... i would imagine casting some shit would be faster than machining them... congrats tho, some people seem to have a bitch of a time finding someone to take sawdust/chips
05:21 PM Tom_L: better tell her you'll be a permanent source for her
05:21 PM roycroft: it's a little old lady, and she was all concerned about treated wood
05:22 PM roycroft: she was happy to find out that this is not outdoor wood in any way
05:22 PM roycroft: so i think she'll show up
05:22 PM roycroft: and yeah, i'll talk to her tomorrow and let her know there will be more
06:05 PM Thorhian: https://youtu.be/VfMQ4dW04wk
06:05 PM Thorhian: It's finally running.
06:15 PM JavaBean: what CAM are you using?
06:28 PM snaked: I've been lurking a long time. I know channels like this one tend to hear from people most often in their moments of frustration, so I thought the group would appreciate hearing from a guy who's grinning with success.
06:28 PM snaked: I just got my new 6040 running with LinuxCNC. It's working on a carved relief right now: https://i.imgur.com/WfM9X3m.jpeg
06:30 PM snaked: Aside from some vague wording in the setup wizard, the only real problems I had were from poor documentation of the machine itself.
06:34 PM snaked: Anyway, big thanks to everyone who so much as added a line to the code or documentation. I'm really quite pleased with this right now.
06:35 PM andypugh: It’s nice when it works, certainly.
06:37 PM andypugh: Thorhian: Spindle speed looks slow.
06:37 PM andypugh: What’s the cutter size?
06:42 PM snaked: Yeah, that's an important caveat.
06:51 PM roycroft: i guess timing is everything
06:51 PM roycroft: i just got back from market, and i have a dozen more people wanting to pick up the wood chips
06:52 PM roycroft: the last time i needed to get rid of some it was the middle of winter
06:52 PM Tom_L: hard to sell ice in the winter
06:53 PM roycroft: yup
06:54 PM roycroft: and right now is when everyone is doing their mulching
06:54 PM roycroft: i hope this does not mean i'm going to have to start saving all my wood chips until fall
06:56 PM Tom_L: you've now got a following
06:57 PM roycroft: cool
06:57 PM roycroft: someone just emailed me wanting some for her chickens
06:57 PM roycroft: that's not a seasonal thing
06:58 PM roycroft: i just let her know these are gone, but i'd be happy to contact her when i have more
06:58 PM roycroft: so i may have a reliable outlet for them moving forward
06:58 PM Tom_L: they're not gone just yet
06:58 PM roycroft: no
06:58 PM roycroft: but she's #15 in the queue
06:58 PM roycroft: and she cannot arrive until tomorrow
06:58 PM roycroft: they will be gone by then
06:59 PM roycroft: in fact, i'm going to pull the post right now, even though i never pull cl posts until the deal is concluded
06:59 PM roycroft: i don't have time to respond to any more emails about something i'm giving away for free :)
07:00 PM Thorhian: andypugh: The spindle will go up to around 4700 RPM maximum with my current pulley situation. I didn't really know how to tune for engraving that logo lol, I just wanted to see if nothing would blow up on me XD
07:00 PM roycroft: i'm one of those weird people who think one should respond to all queries, even if the deal is already done
07:00 PM roycroft: and i think i'm one of the few, because i get so many shocked responses from folks thanking me for letting them know
07:01 PM roycroft: it just seems like common courtesy to me, but that is something that is perhaps lacking these days compared to how i was raised
07:25 PM Thorhian: JavaBean: I am currently using FreeCAM and macros provided by LinuxCNC. I really don't want to give AutoDesk my money.
07:26 PM XXCoder: freecam? looking it up
07:27 PM XXCoder: cant find it?
07:29 PM Tom_L: https://wiki.shapeoko.com/index.php/MeshCAM
07:40 PM Tom_L: not what it was supposed to be :(
07:43 PM JavaBean: have you tried FreeMILL?
07:45 PM JavaBean: hmmm, or maybe PyCAM
07:45 PM roycroft: i'd like me some free mill, please
07:46 PM roycroft: free cincinnati would be nice, with a great big taper and a horizontal and vertical spindle
07:46 PM roycroft: and some free shop to park it in
07:47 PM JavaBean: neither of those is like FreeMILL or FreeSHOP... 2 of them are software, 2 of them would be hardware
07:48 PM XXCoder: lol
08:04 PM roycroft: it's debate time
08:04 PM Thorhian: XD
08:04 PM roycroft: or whatever it turns out to be
08:05 PM JavaBean: dumpster fire
08:10 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that presidential "debates" are the best way for the american people to vet the candidates
08:10 PM roycroft: but it's what we do
08:12 PM roycroft: and the lies started right away
08:12 PM JavaBean: it might not be a lie to them, they live in their own universe
08:41 PM roycroft: yeah, as anticipated, this isn't a debate
08:41 PM roycroft: it's just a shit show
08:41 PM Tom_L: it's got your attention.
08:44 PM JavaBean: that is all cnn has asked for in the last 20-ish years
08:50 PM roycroft: it's our future and our destiny
08:50 PM roycroft: i hate it
08:50 PM roycroft: but yes, it has my attention because it's so important
08:51 PM roycroft: and i'm watching it on cbs, btw, not cnn
08:51 PM norias: c-span here
08:51 PM Tom_L: should be the same broadcast no matter ehh?
08:51 PM JavaBean: you would hope so, anyway
08:51 PM norias: Tom_L: i think some have commentary
08:52 PM norias: Tom_L: i chose C-SPAN to avoid that if it was going to happen
08:52 PM Tom_L: oh. but i'm not interested in comentary
08:52 PM Tom_L: they're not being elected
08:52 PM norias: Tom_L: also, I said "i think:
08:52 PM roycroft: there is zero commentary here
08:52 PM norias: I went c-span because i knew there would be no commentary
08:52 PM norias: but it's possible there isn't any somewhere else
08:53 PM roycroft: chris wallace is now yelling at both of them
08:54 PM JavaBean: oh... oh man, i wish i could be watching this... every place i am in right now seems to be commenting on this.... well most of the places are
08:54 PM norias: JavaBean: youtube
08:55 PM norias: wallace is good because he doesn't cower
08:55 PM roycroft: yes
08:55 PM JavaBean: data plan and cell phone signal strength have issues buffering at 240p... and 144p isn't any better
08:55 PM Rab: Wallace for President!
08:55 PM roycroft: no
08:56 PM roycroft: and no in 1964 as well to that same cry
08:57 PM norias: ha
08:57 PM JavaBean: dude, need a cane?
08:58 PM Rab: roycroft, haha, duly chastened. Although I wasn't alive then.
09:11 PM roycroft: the problem is
09:11 PM roycroft: chris wallace is the only moderator this year who has any experience as a moderator
09:11 PM roycroft: he's barely keeping things moving
09:12 PM roycroft: the next two debates are likely to be 10x more raucus than this shit show
09:12 PM norias: oh. wait.
09:12 PM norias: wallace isn't doing them all?
09:14 PM Tom_L: let's hope not
09:14 PM norias: i think he's doing as well as can be done
09:18 PM roycroft: no, he's not doing them all
09:18 PM roycroft: the debate committee have always chosen a different moderator for every debate
09:18 PM roycroft: oh god
09:18 PM Tom_L: adds a different flavor to each one
09:18 PM roycroft: now we're talking about raking forests again
09:18 PM roycroft: IT'S YOUR FUCKING FEDERAL FORESTS, ASSHOLE
09:18 PM roycroft: sorry
09:18 PM roycroft: i'll try not to have another outburst
09:18 PM JavaBean: they aren't allowed to rake the federal forests
09:19 PM Tom_L: check your blood pressure...
09:19 PM JavaBean: they aren't even allowed to remove dead trees that make such great 'firewood'
09:19 PM Tom_L: :)
09:19 PM XXCoder: forest and rake again lol
09:20 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +vv by orwell.freenode.net
09:20 PM JavaBean: to be fair, these kinds of "extreme forest fires" were predicted years ago... long before the simpsons predicted trumps presidency
09:22 PM norias: and hunter biden was kicked out of the navy for cocaine
09:23 PM norias: which doesn't mean much, but the story isn't good
09:26 PM roycroft: to be fair, we started learning about forest management in the '70s, and the western state blms have done a good job of changing their forest management practises, while the federal government has not done much about their forests
09:27 PM roycroft: hunter biden is not running for president, btw
09:28 PM JavaBean: due to various law suits by "environmentalist organizations", the fed's hands are mostly tied concerning the clearing up of their forests
09:28 PM JavaBean: MOSTLY, there might be a few things they can do
09:30 PM roycroft: that is irrelevant
09:30 PM roycroft: the fact is, the majority of forest lands are owned and managed by the federal government
09:30 PM JavaBean: no, it is quite relevent
09:30 PM roycroft: it's patently unfair to blame the states for the fires on federal lands
09:31 PM roycroft: the states have no control over it
09:31 PM roycroft: in the context of discussing forest management, your point is apt
09:31 PM JavaBean: i will let you have that argument. i ain't watching the stream
09:31 PM roycroft: but the president's rant is about blame, not about the actual problem
09:31 PM roycroft: and he can't blame the states for problems on federally managed land
09:31 PM roycroft: well, he can and he did
09:32 PM Tom_L: i have doubts the debates will sway anybody
09:32 PM Tom_L: it solidifies what they already believe
09:32 PM JavaBean: it has done that for years Tom_L
09:32 PM roycroft: nate silver just pointed out that his personal favorables trail his job approval by several points
09:32 PM roycroft: and that this debate is not going to help the president at all
09:33 PM roycroft: because, to quote republican represantive pat garafolo, "The President of the United States is a world class asshole."
09:34 PM roycroft: his personal favorables will go down tonight
09:35 PM JavaBean: reminder, lots of bernie supporters went the "never biden" route
09:35 PM roycroft: yes
09:36 PM JavaBean: i only mention that, because polls are bullshit
09:36 PM roycroft: they're actually not
09:36 PM roycroft: but they're not what they appear to be on the surface
09:39 PM roycroft: well, that's over
09:39 PM roycroft: i'm not sure exactly what it was though
09:40 PM roycroft: it's not something i would ever want to have happen in this country again, that's for sure
09:42 PM roycroft: but now it's cbs fact check time
09:44 PM roycroft: i think that if i were an undecided voter, after tonight i would just go hang out in my cave until after the election
09:46 PM norias: that was interesting
09:50 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
09:51 PM JavaBean: i wonder if people "in general" realize how many of those "fact checks" get changed after publishing?
09:54 PM JavaBean: or even read the details of the "fact check"
09:59 PM roycroft: the fact check was selective and mostly irrelevant
09:59 PM roycroft: the cbs instant poll is in
09:59 PM roycroft: 69% of debate watchers found it "annoying"
10:00 PM * roycroft raises his hand as one of that ilk, because "annoying" was the least innacurate choice of how he felt about it
10:01 PM roycroft: i'm pleased at how well i kept my composure doing the shit show, though
10:01 PM roycroft: i only shouted at my television once during the entire 90 minutes
10:01 PM JavaBean: everything else i heard made it sound like a popcorn comedy
10:01 PM Tom_L: roycroft, you're getting better at it :)
10:02 PM roycroft: i've had decades of experience
10:03 PM roycroft: the percentage that found it "amusing" was very low
10:03 PM roycroft: but the lowest percentage - 17% - found it "informative"
10:03 PM roycroft: "amusing was just a bit above that
10:03 PM JavaBean: maybe because i was reading places like ##electronics
10:04 PM roycroft: which is impossible unless people were permitted to select more than one answer
10:04 PM roycroft: i suppose that if there is a person on the planet who was unfamiliar with donald trump before tonight, that person could find it both "annoying" and "informative"
10:05 PM roycroft: but the sadness is, as i've said, this is probably going to be the most sane, controlled "debate" of the cycle
10:05 PM roycroft: i think the church lady should moderate the next one
10:06 PM JavaBean: probably just devolve into her praying over and over again
10:06 PM roycroft: or better yet
10:06 PM roycroft: sister mary elephant
10:06 PM roycroft: yes
10:06 PM roycroft: she would be the best moderator
10:07 PM roycroft: class
10:07 PM roycroft: class
10:07 PM roycroft: SHUT UP!
10:08 PM roycroft: what is really really disturbing is this:
10:09 PM roycroft: every day we get closer to the election seems two days farther from the election
10:09 PM roycroft: it seems that this will never be over
10:11 PM Tom_L: well thankfully it will pass just like everything else
10:11 PM JavaBean: https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/hkkjuv/worst_apocalypse_ever/
10:15 PM roycroft: i hope so
10:16 PM roycroft: our president is still whining about his winning in 2016
10:16 PM roycroft: if he gets reelected we'll have to endure four more years of his being a sore winner
10:24 PM XXCoder: ugh
10:24 PM XXCoder: i hope he loses
10:24 PM XXCoder: usa dont need trump for 4 more years
10:24 PM JavaBean: might be better than that kamela harris person
10:25 PM XXCoder: also dont ened amy for next 30 to 40 years
10:25 PM JavaBean: english?
10:25 PM XXCoder: amy
10:26 PM XXCoder: the sureme judge appointment to be
10:26 PM JavaBean: oh, her. which argument against her will you be using?
10:26 PM roycroft: i have argument against her
10:26 PM XXCoder: she will enter using doors RBG opened and close doors
10:27 PM XXCoder: she is member of church that women must stay at home
10:27 PM roycroft: if she is confirmed she'll be the legitimate freshman associate justice of the supreme court
10:27 PM XXCoder: she will put religion in everything
10:27 PM roycroft: my argument is with the process
10:27 PM JavaBean: it doesn't matter who sits in rbg's chair, they aren't her doors will close
10:28 PM roycroft: xxcoder: i don't like many of her positions, but she is qualified for the position from what i know of her
10:28 PM XXCoder: she was recently appointed to her current position
10:28 PM XXCoder: need few more years experence
10:28 PM roycroft: that doesn't mean anything
10:28 PM XXCoder: they want young person under thumb for next 40 years
10:29 PM roycroft: we've had many justices, even chief justices, have never sat as a judge before in their lives
10:29 PM cradek: by getting her seated immediately, conservative court watchers have no reason to reelect trump. trump's making a big strategic mistake.
10:30 PM roycroft: i'm against her being installed the way it's taking place
10:30 PM roycroft: but none of that is on her personally
10:30 PM cradek: nobody else is dying or retiring in the next 4 years
10:30 PM roycroft: kavenaugh i think perjured himself during his confirmation hearing
10:30 PM roycroft: and i think he's a pretty slimy person
10:31 PM JavaBean: nearly all "politians" are slimy
10:31 PM roycroft: from what i've read of the current nominee, though, she seems an upstanding woman with whom i disagree on almost everything
10:31 PM roycroft: but my disagreeing does not mean she is not legitimate, shoule she be confirmed
10:32 PM roycroft: that's a part of "politics" with which i'm ok
10:35 PM XXCoder: yeah disagree is fine
10:35 PM XXCoder: im concerned about religious bias
10:35 PM XXCoder: she is likely to revert so many rights we have now
10:36 PM JavaBean: i thought you said she was a memeber of a religion that insists women stay home
10:36 PM XXCoder: she is
10:36 PM roycroft: she's a roman catholic
10:36 PM XXCoder: which brings up question on her current job
10:36 PM JavaBean: how would she get anything done as a supremecourt justice if that were true?
10:37 PM roycroft: we're in a pandemic
10:37 PM roycroft: the supreme court are working from home these days
10:38 PM roycroft: i admit i don't know a lot about her at this point
10:39 PM roycroft: i'm having dinner with some friends tomorrow, so i'm sure that by tomorrow evening i'll have heard all the dirt about her, real and imagined
10:39 PM XXCoder: roy ya neither did I. I did some research. was concerned with what i saw
10:39 PM roycroft: then i'll have to sort out of that what is real and what is not before i will be able to reassess my opinion of her
10:39 PM JavaBean: don't know if you will hear "all the dirt" on her...atleast the real stuff
10:39 PM roycroft: from this group i may well hear it
10:40 PM roycroft: well
10:40 PM roycroft: maybe not
10:40 PM roycroft: i'll hear everything they think is dirt about her
10:40 PM roycroft: they do dismiss things they think irrelevant
10:41 PM XXCoder: my biggest concerns is twofold - she may be appointed by agreemenbts behind the scene, and her background for massive bias
10:42 PM XXCoder: i want sureme court judges to be his or her own person, not depent under others with many favors and agreements to change stuff
10:42 PM JavaBean: hahahahahahahahahaha
10:43 PM JavaBean: only difference, supremecourt justices don't face re election
10:44 PM roycroft: i think what the trump administration and the mcconnell senate have done is make clear how much the functionality of our government depends on "unspoken rules and norms", as they have both shattered all those norms
10:44 PM roycroft: and that we're going to see things codified in law regarding how government functions that were always "unspoken rules and norms"
10:45 PM XXCoder: those stuff is everywhere unfortunately
10:45 PM JavaBean: which is why trump was a great president... just don't assume i agree with the shit he has done
10:45 PM roycroft: it's the basis of our legal system
10:45 PM roycroft: i won't *ever* say he's been a great president in any way
10:45 PM roycroft: he's been a very consequential president though
10:46 PM roycroft: there's no doubt about it
10:46 PM JavaBean: meh, you like those expense words
10:46 PM roycroft: he's not an air bubble in a tiny letter in a footnote president
10:46 PM JavaBean: s/expense/expensive
10:47 PM Tom_L: sure hope this is over by morning.
10:47 PM roycroft: not all consequences are negative, regardless of their intention
10:47 PM XXCoder: thats same as vodement, great. terrible, but great.
10:47 PM JavaBean: voldemort?
10:48 PM * roycroft agrees to be done talking about this stuff for now
10:48 PM XXCoder: harry potter villian
10:48 PM XXCoder: but yeah done also
10:48 PM JavaBean: only fixing your spelling
10:48 PM roycroft: tonight's performance just makes me want to go drink heavily anyway
10:48 PM JavaBean: also, fyi... not a fan of the movies/books
10:48 PM roycroft: and the less i think about it the less likely i am to wake up with a hangover :)
10:49 PM XXCoder: lucky you can drink heh
10:49 PM JavaBean: who needs drinking to have a "hangover" from this?
10:49 PM XXCoder: i just cant drink for any reason
10:49 PM roycroft: i enjoy a refreshing beverage
10:49 PM roycroft: but if i couldn't drink i'd find something else to enjoy
10:50 PM JavaBean: hopefully weed will be legal in all jurisdictions soon
10:50 PM roycroft: i'm glad i don't have to make that choice though
10:50 PM roycroft: ok
10:50 PM roycroft: so i'm not quite done for tonight
10:50 PM roycroft: i need to very briefly rant about something
10:50 PM roycroft: the democrats are total dumbasses
10:51 PM JavaBean: both sides are "full" of dumbasses
10:51 PM roycroft: all biden needs to do is making taking pot off schedule 1 and the disenchanted bernie youth would all get out and vote for him
10:51 PM JavaBean: s/both/all
10:51 PM roycroft: an issue, that is
10:51 PM roycroft: a simple thing that would have cost him maybe 37 votes
10:51 PM roycroft: and would gain him millions
10:51 PM roycroft: and he's probably going to do it anyway
10:52 PM roycroft: should he win
10:52 PM roycroft: anyway
10:52 PM roycroft: it's a really stupid thing not to do
10:52 PM JavaBean: probably got too much money from the privately owned prisons that need MJ to stay illegal so they can stay in business
10:52 PM roycroft: and now i'm done :)
10:52 PM roycroft: biden is actually pretty anti-pot
10:52 PM roycroft: but i don't think he really knows what it is
10:53 PM roycroft: i expect kamala harris will educate him on pot vs. other drugs during the campaign
10:53 PM roycroft: and that's why i say he'd probably end up doing it anyway if he wins
10:53 PM roycroft: she'll convince him
10:53 PM roycroft: and biden is against private prisons, btw
10:53 PM roycroft: as any decent person is
10:53 PM JavaBean: dude, i don't think if the democrats win this election, biden WON
10:53 PM JavaBean: "T serve but maybe a day
10:54 PM roycroft: if you think he'd resign right after being sworn in you're seriously deluded
10:54 PM JavaBean: he is a politician. private prisons are "campaign contributors"
10:54 PM roycroft: he and harris want to end them
10:55 PM JavaBean: he wouldn't resign, he would be found to be medically unable to serve
10:55 PM roycroft: but we're supposed to be moving on to other topics :)
10:55 PM JavaBean: sorry, sorry... not allowed to have civil discourse like this in most places
10:56 PM XXCoder: private prison is slavery
10:56 PM roycroft: it wears on others here
10:56 PM XXCoder: there is literally in contract that there must be minium prisoners
10:57 PM roycroft: some stay away because they think it's all "liberal" talk
10:57 PM XXCoder: guess where goverment gets em from
10:57 PM roycroft: others are just weary and find other things to do
10:57 PM roycroft: as i'm going to do right now
10:58 PM JavaBean: yes, its unfortunate but sleep sounds like a good thing to do right now