#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 27 2020

01:50 AM Deejay: moin
01:56 AM Deejay: moin
02:57 AM veegee: I'm having a lot of trouble finding reusable/field attachable hydraulic hose fittings
03:04 AM veegee: I just need a temporary fix until I can replace the entire hose
03:09 AM veegee: Just need one of these and I'll be good to go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JndOT3qvhM4
03:56 AM Jaatinen: Hi!
03:59 AM veegee: Never mind, found it finally: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/1-2-in-nptm-x-1-2-in-hose-insert/A-p1291517e
03:59 AM veegee: needs the ferrule too. Not as expensive as I thought it would be
04:05 AM gloops: sometimes just a case of knowing what to type in the search
04:34 AM miss0r2: g'day
04:36 AM miss0r2: What is your guys opinion about lubrication of threads:... I have a good mind to use a stainless bolt in a stainless thread on my exhaust manifold. i.e. it will get hot. And we all know stainless on stainless has a tendency to mar or weld the threads. Would you think a copper impregnated grease or other product would hold up in said thread and prevent the bolt on being a bitch'n a half to work with?
04:36 AM miss0r2: (please excuse my french) :)
05:04 AM miss0r2: unterhaus_: Well, that will be a gamle, as I am not aware if the flange I've made is 304 or 316.. :)
05:04 AM unterhaus_: I think copper is discouraged for stainless applications. having a hard time finding a good reference
05:05 AM unterhaus_: bolt on flange shouldn't cause too many problems
05:06 AM miss0r2: well, its two flanges meeting. Both are mystery stainless. One has a through hole the other a thread
05:07 AM miss0r2: https://www.rocol.com/products/stainless-steel-anti-seize
05:08 AM miss0r2: looks about right :)
05:08 AM veegee: miss0r2 anti seize
05:08 AM veegee: that's all you need
05:10 AM veegee: miss0r2 nickel anti seize to be specific https://www.permatex.com/products/lubricants/specialty-lubricants-anti-seize/permatex-nickel-anti-seize-lubricant/
05:11 AM veegee: It's almost like they made it specifically for your application
05:12 AM veegee: While you're at it, try their laundry detergent https://www.permatex.com/product-category/laundry-detergent/ for when it inevitably gets all over your clothes
05:20 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:36 AM Tom_L: morning
05:36 AM XXCoder: heys
05:37 AM jymmmm: morning
05:49 AM jymmmm: Hmmm, blackout is suppose to start between 2am and 4am, 12 minutes to go?
05:55 AM veegee: what blackout?
05:58 AM jymmmm: veegee: Power blackout to reduce wildfire due to high winds
05:59 AM jymmmm: and it looks like the wind JUST started to pick up
06:00 AM veegee: wait so they're going to short circuit and increase pitch on the wind turbines and slow them down to reduce wind speed?
06:00 AM jymmmm: veegee: will affect 22 counties in California
06:00 AM veegee: How does the power blackout help reduce wildfire?
06:00 AM veegee: Like what exactly is it supposed to accomplish?
06:01 AM jymmmm: veegee: N, they are going to shut off power to much of California to prevent a wildfire, due to downed power lines/poles, etc
06:01 AM veegee: oh
06:01 AM veegee: how long is it supposed to last?
06:02 AM jymmmm: 24 to 36 hours this time
06:02 AM veegee: nice
06:02 AM jymmmm: veegee: PGE (the power company) caused the 2018 wildfire, worse in California history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Fire_(2018)
06:03 AM veegee: of course they did
06:03 AM jymmmm: 151,000 acres, 89 deaths, 51,000 people had to evacuate and were displaced
06:04 AM jymmmm: the fire burned at a rate of a football field every second.
06:04 AM veegee: no idea how big a football field is
06:04 AM veegee: I don't use retard units
06:04 AM veegee: or watch football
06:05 AM veegee: Oh about 7,140m^2
06:05 AM veegee: could have just said that
06:05 AM jymmmm: "retard"?! What, are you 11yo?
06:06 AM veegee: I was about 2 decades ago
06:06 AM jymmmm: coulda fooled me
06:06 AM veegee: well half of the american population /is/ mentally retarded
06:07 AM JT-Cave: it's almost funny to watch a one sided conversation
06:07 AM veegee: miles, feet, football fields
06:07 AM veegee: Fahrenheit
06:07 AM veegee: why just why
06:07 AM jymmmm: JT eh
06:07 AM * JT-Cave plans on bucket brigade some dirt into the CQ's run today
06:08 AM jymmmm: CQ???
06:08 AM JT-Cave: Cinnamon Queen
06:08 AM jymmmm: ah
06:08 AM veegee: how many football fields is that?
06:09 AM JT-Cave: I need to build a set of steps from the driveway down to their coop... all I have now is a path down the hill
06:10 AM jymmmm: It's kinda sad, I keep a 5gal bucket full of play sand to put out fires, works great on the wood stove.
06:10 AM veegee: oh I thought you were talking about a store like dairy queen
06:10 AM jymmmm: JT height difference and distance?
06:10 AM veegee: but sells cinnamon buns and stuff
06:12 AM jymmmm: JT Have you heard of cement soil?
06:13 AM jymmmm: err Soil Cement
06:13 AM JT-Cave: no
06:15 AM miss0r2: jymmmm: Apparently they still haven't shut off the power? or are you running on a generator by now?
06:15 AM jymmmm: JT Basically... you sprinkle cement on soil, rotatil and compact it. Keep it wet for about a week, and you have a durable surface for around $50 or so
06:16 AM jymmmm: JT 7 minutes... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPjMMH7QzKU
06:16 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: Still on grid atm, I tthink they changed it estimate from 2am to 6am
06:17 AM jymmmm: JT IT's really good if you need a good foundation with errotion control
06:18 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/run/run-16.jpg
06:18 AM JT-Cave: that's a photo from the driveway down to the run
06:18 AM JT-Cave: tilling and rocks don' mix well
06:19 AM JT-Cave: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/run/run-22.jpg
06:19 AM jymmmm: maybe railroad ties? I see them used a lot on trails where they need steps
06:20 AM jymmmm: The ties are used to "hold back" the soil at the edge of the steps
06:21 AM jymmmm: Kinda like thiss... https://i.pinimg.com/originals/60/1f/2b/601f2b56a8b002a3e9f9937057ec2ffa.jpg
06:22 AM jymmmm: Not the ones on the sides, but just the front and they use rebar stakes to secure them in place
06:23 AM JT-Cave: I'll just put a set of wood steps I assume
06:23 AM jymmmm: ah ok
06:25 AM miss0r2: If any of you guys come across the header pattern with measurements for the the buick 215 engine, I would like to hear about it :)
06:26 AM jymmmm: https://www.randolphsunoco.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/railroad-ties-stairs-landscape.jpg
06:26 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: gonna make instead of buy?
06:27 AM JT-Cave: nice landscaping
06:27 AM JT-Cave: 215 cubic inch?
06:28 AM jymmmm: Yeah, I've seen some nice things done with RR ties
06:28 AM jymmmm: and some ugly ones too, lol
06:29 AM miss0r2: jymmmm: I basically have to. Its the same design as the rover 3.5 V8. the engine of my 101" land rover. The problem is the limited space of the exhaust manifold causes the cast iron ones to crack. and since they have not been made for two decades, and they crack right fast in a hurry it is realy expensive to buy a second hand one.
06:29 AM miss0r2: jymmmm: The price is one thing, I would not mind if I could somehow be certain it would last forever. but it is known that they fail fast
06:29 AM miss0r2: so I am making one from stainless steel
06:29 AM miss0r2: JT-Cave: I believe it is that, yes
06:30 AM jymmmm: miss0r2 I'm sure that you are not the only one that has had that issue, nobody else has made ss ?
06:32 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: search for "stainless" https://www.glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18398
06:32 AM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTVervkLKDQ
06:33 AM JT-Cave: something similar to those I think
06:34 AM miss0r2: jymmmm: Theres plenty of stainless exhaust manifold solutions for the rover 3.5/buick 215. The problem is that when the engine is mounted in the 101" land rover, theres some serious space restrictions.
06:34 AM miss0r2: so, basically only a specially made one would fit.
06:35 AM miss0r2: I've found a complete stainless exhaust system for the land rover 101", but it is ridiculously expensive. like 4000 usd
06:37 AM jymmmm: JT Nice, I like them
06:37 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: OUCH, buy it, take measurements, then returns it =)
06:39 AM miss0r2: hehe. The shipping from the US to Denmark & return would set me back a pretty amount.. In which case I might as well take the measurements my self :D
06:41 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: if you get enough photos, you could model it
06:42 AM miss0r2: Yeah. Well, I have already modeled the flanges themselves. I would just love to not have to crawl onto the engine to measure the hole distances
06:42 AM miss0r2: i.e. the distances that seprate the flanges on the head
06:43 AM jymmmm: Home depot kinda frowns upon using a cordless angle grinder in the store to cut 20ft rebar into reasonable lengths to take to the cashier
06:43 AM miss0r2: lol
06:43 AM miss0r2: bring a large bolt cutter?
06:43 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: why not use what you already have to take measurements?
06:44 AM miss0r2: The one I already have, have been welded god knows how many times, and holes enlarged as many
06:44 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: I did, 4ft bolt cutters, but it's still a bitch to cut 1/2" or bigger rebar with them
06:44 AM miss0r2: Its hard to know what is realy going on there
06:44 AM miss0r2: indeed
06:45 AM jymmmm: yeah, I understand.
07:01 AM jymmmm: And we are now on generator
07:03 AM jymmmm: I love these rechargeable LED 120V bulbs... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SSFYLS6
07:05 AM XXCoder: not bad
07:05 AM XXCoder: would it just light up when power off?
07:06 AM miss0r2: I don't understand how they work
07:06 AM miss0r2: isn't it basically a 4-5 hour off delay?
07:07 AM miss0r2: no matter if it is a power outage or a light switch flip? How can they tell the difference?
07:07 AM XXCoder: miss if it detects connection, and no power it will turn on
07:07 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: It works like a normal bulb, but has a battery inside. So you can turn it on/off like normal
07:07 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: it detects the missing hot
07:07 AM miss0r2: XXCoder: So basically, if it can measure any kind of resistance from the installation in the lack of power it will continue to light?
07:08 AM miss0r2: jymmmm: That would also be the case if you flipped the light switch
07:08 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: it will turn off if you flip thw switch off
07:08 AM miss0r2: I am buying xxcoders explaination
07:08 AM miss0r2: jymmmm: Indeed. I was just wondering how it can determin if theres a poweroutage or the lightswitch has been flipped. In both cases it gets no power
07:09 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: if it's just missing one leg, it will not turn on
07:09 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: if it's missing both, then it will
07:10 AM XXCoder: there is a way to measure length of connection before break
07:11 AM XXCoder: wires would be minium foot long or more
07:11 AM XXCoder: that is detectable
07:11 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: more like 20ft+
07:11 AM XXCoder: i have equipment that can measure ethernet length. same idea
07:11 AM XXCoder: jym sure but detectable is enough as bulbs dont have wire
07:12 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: but they do have sockets with wires
07:12 AM XXCoder: exactly
07:12 AM XXCoder: well i guess measuring wire wouldnt work
07:12 AM XXCoder: as turned off it is still attached. lol
07:12 AM jymmmm: It's probably measuring inductance
07:13 AM XXCoder: yeah better for that
07:13 AM XXCoder: dont switch connect hot to ground so its ground, ground and earth
07:13 AM XXCoder: rather than just disconnect
07:13 AM XXCoder: (not power source that'd be a short)
07:14 AM jymmmm: Anyhow, they work great during a blackout. I get about 6 hours
07:14 AM XXCoder: nice
07:14 AM jymmmm: dim at 6 hours, but enough so you don't trip on anything.
07:15 AM jymmmm: cause it's REALLY DARK up here
07:16 AM jymmmm: I guess some people were complaining that they have no internet during a blackout as the cable company needs power to provide service.
07:16 AM XXCoder: lol
07:17 AM XXCoder: get a ups for modem and whatever routers and switches you got
07:17 AM XXCoder: should be suffecent for wireless devices
07:17 AM jymmmm: No no, not the end customer, the cable company needs power
07:18 AM jymmmm: so even if you have a generator, you still have no internet if you are using cable
07:18 AM XXCoder: hmm ok
07:19 AM jymmmm: I guess they need power to convert from fiber optic to coax
07:20 AM jymmmm: Cause I've seen the emergency fiber optic cable laying on the ground after the 2018 wildfire
07:20 AM miss0r2: I use a 4G wireless modem here. In a power outage I still have connection to the IPs system for atleast 48 hours (due to state law, which the minimum required backup battery for the IPs wireless systems)
07:21 AM miss0r2: My own UPS system will also last for 48 hours assuming I don't use anything like the electrical stove/oven or kettle...
07:21 AM miss0r2: After that I will have to fire up the generator. But I have only had to do that once
07:22 AM miss0r2: I have 9.6kwh of stored power in my batteries
07:22 AM jymmmm: miss0r2: how big is your UPS and what loads do you have connected to it?
07:22 AM jymmmm: ok 9WH
07:22 AM miss0r2: you forgot the 'k' :)
07:23 AM miss0r2: its a 5000kvA unit, I have seriously modified.
07:23 AM miss0r2: :)
07:23 AM jymmmm: Ok 9KWH
07:23 AM miss0r2: :)
07:24 AM jymmmm: Wait KW or KVA?
07:24 AM miss0r2: well... I have 8 200Ah batteries, in two parallel banks of 48 volts.
07:24 AM miss0r2: so KW
07:25 AM jymmmm: AGM? SLA?
07:25 AM miss0r2: AGM
07:25 AM jymmmm: k
07:25 AM miss0r2: unless I flip an emergency switch, the UPS will only utilize 4800watts of the power, to help preserve battery life
07:26 AM miss0r2: but usualy our power outages are short and far inbetween
07:26 AM miss0r2: I haven't had it run(except for the scheduled tests) for 2 years now
07:27 AM miss0r2: and that coincides with the time they removed the air insulated wires on masts with cables they dug into the ground
07:28 AM miss0r2: This area has alot of forrest that, when the wind is high, have a bad impact on suspended wires :)
07:28 AM jymmmm: That's the issue here, and poor maintance
07:28 AM miss0r2: Anyway. I need to get going. Apparently my break from the family is now over... See you around
07:28 AM miss0r2: Good luck with the blackout
07:28 AM jymmmm: thanks, enjoy the family =)
07:40 AM jymmmm: JT Here's an article on Soil-Cement, it's a low cost alternative to a full concrete slab... https://www.cement.org/cement-concrete-applications/paving/soil-cement
07:41 AM * JT-Cave prefers 6 bag mix concrete with rebar and steel mesh
07:44 AM jymmmm: weell, like I said, a low cost alternative. nice for errotion control too
07:45 AM * JT-Cave is missing one part of that... no soil except down on the flat ground
07:45 AM jymmmm: ah
07:46 AM jymmmm: aIi have a large patch of St Johns wart for errotion control, but damn if it's not an evasive plant
08:05 AM gloops: river erosion?
08:23 AM jymmmm: gloops: When it rains up here, it's like for 5 days non stop 24/7
08:23 AM jymmmm: on the extreme side
08:24 AM jymmmm: Hmmm what to eat during a blackout???
08:25 AM jymmmm: winds are starting to pick up a bit more
08:27 AM jymmmm: "The Blackout Cookbook" eh, maybe?
08:34 AM Tom_L: pine needles
08:35 AM jymmmm: dont have many around here
08:42 AM JavaBean: need to gather and store them better. a rare commodity needs different gather/store than a "common" commodity
10:48 AM Loetmichel: Harrumph... two simple H7 bulbs. 40€... why the F*** has the previous owner opted to put in cheap chinese LED lamps in my car? had to buy two normal (actually allowed by law) incandescents at the fuel station because one of the leds failed :-(
10:50 AM _unreal_: so I have basically finished my daughters machine, HARDWARE wise.
10:50 AM _unreal_: I'm minus a hand full of m2 screws to mount the PEN
10:50 AM _unreal_: much to my irritation
10:50 AM JavaBean: must be a cnc mill, not a 3dprinter... only kind of machine that is ever "finished" hardware wise
11:00 AM _unreal_: the machine I'm building for my daughter is a conversion
11:00 AM _unreal_: so the HEAD is easy to switch.
11:01 AM _unreal_: I have now finished it more or less and there is an easy swap out pen/touch probe
11:01 AM _unreal_: or it can take a spindle which is already setup
11:01 AM _unreal_: OR
11:01 AM _unreal_: maybe in the future it can take a LASER on the pen holder fixed mount
11:01 AM _unreal_: so she could swap in all kinds of tools
11:01 AM _unreal_: currently being 11
11:02 AM _unreal_: the spindle she'll have to REALLLY prove I trust her
11:03 AM _unreal_: A LASER haaa... A: super vision, B: she'd have to be at least 14 IMO before I even considered letting her use one
11:03 AM _unreal_: other wise mainly its going to be drawing and probing learning tool and maybe a nice DULL ball end for wood engraving
11:04 AM _unreal_: later today we are going to go to acehardware WHICH IS SUCH a freaking drive
11:04 AM _unreal_: if they are even still open
11:05 AM _unreal_: sweet the ace hardware is still operating
11:05 AM _unreal_: have to get stupid M2 screws
11:27 AM Rab: super vision <-- the laser will solve that problem
11:28 AM _unreal_: heh
11:28 AM _unreal_: getting ready to go to the store. sucks its like 15 miles
11:29 AM _unreal_: oh well
11:29 AM _unreal_: god I have this weird feeling JE one of my stocks is going to go crazy monday
11:31 AM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: this is what I get if I don't run youtube.
11:31 AM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/2020-09-27-112659_1920x1080_scrot.png
11:42 AM Tom_L: doesn't look bad
11:54 AM Tom_L: skunkworks, have you tried the image off the linuxcnc site yet?
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: without any video playback ours get s a bit worse over time, takes a few hours or opening a browser at the right time, I tend to test for 12 hours or more
12:13 PM roycroft: yay! i've installed my new bench!
12:13 PM roycroft: and i'm getting my old one ready to list on cl right now
12:14 PM roycroft: the new bench takes up entirely too much room, but i have plans for that, and shall be working on moving things around soon
12:14 PM roycroft: then the new bench will fit perfectly
12:16 PM rs[m]: skunkworks: do you know https://www.osadl.org/Profile-of-system-in-rack-7-slot-2.qa-profile-r7s2.0.html?shadow=1
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: Turned off GPU accel and video4linux and with a 100,000nS servo thread latency is <25,000nS after several hours, but without playing a video. Kernel 4.19.71
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: apparently osadl doesn't use a browser and youtubes as test applications
12:34 PM rs[m]: CaptHindsight: at least for the rpi3, their cmd line options make a difference. but it seems no rt-relevant options are present on the rpi4 commandline
12:43 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, got any photos?
12:46 PM CaptHindsight: rs[m]: working with RTAI for the past sevral years we found that graphics drivers are the worst offender
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: why open drivers are important since the driver devs don't give a crap about real time
12:59 PM t4nk_freenode: anyone from europe here? I'm looking at that mpcnc thingy and I'm wondering what kind of tubing to use... they all speak of 'emt conduit' of 23-25mm OD.. but we don't seem to have that here.. I got some 15mm od tubes, and I can buy 20mm, and 28mm tubes, the tubes are for central heating installations
01:00 PM t4nk_freenode: but the actual dimensions are not to be found here
01:03 PM t4nk_freenode: I'd use my 15mm tubes, but I'm not sure that diameter will fit the 608 bearings
01:04 PM t4nk_freenode: already ordered a bunch of bearings
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: 608 bearings ID: 8mm x OD: 22mm x W: 7mm
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: t4nk_freenode: it looks like it was all designed around using thin wall metal tubing
01:12 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, like 2mm or so... at least the walls between what they use and my tubing is the same
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/conduit-size-d_1738.html
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: ID and OD of EMT
01:14 PM t4nk_freenode: I think I wouldn't mind going a bit smaller, but it would mean having to adapt all the parts
01:14 PM CaptHindsight: YES
01:14 PM t4nk_freenode: you'd think that more ppl from europe faced this situation
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.v1engineering.com/t/shopping-list-europe/9643
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.reddit.com/r/mpcnc/comments/aqv6sr/ukeurope_mpcnc_builders/
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.reddit.com/r/mpcnc/comments/aqv6sr/ukeurope_mpcnc_builders/
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: how many days does it take to glue gun all those parts?
01:19 PM t4nk_freenode: no idea ;)
01:21 PM t4nk_freenode: mmmm that first link led me to find rvsonline.nl
01:21 PM t4nk_freenode: shipping is 8euro50, but the produce don't seem too expensive
01:22 PM t4nk_freenode: rvs == 'rust "free" steel'
01:22 PM t4nk_freenode: which is idiotic, because any steel is rust free, .. initially ;)
01:28 PM t4nk_freenode: well, it amounts of course, would be rather expensive after all. But it is still a good option
01:29 PM t4nk_freenode: not sure if mpcnc is worthy of stainless steel to me though ;)
01:29 PM t4nk_freenode: but it seems like a nice design
01:29 PM t4nk_freenode: doubt the rigidity though
01:30 PM CaptHindsight: its a toy
01:30 PM t4nk_freenode: yeah, I figure
01:33 PM t4nk_freenode: like with the little drill press I made... when I saw the designs on thingiverse.. you could just smell that 2 little tubes contained by a little plate of printed plastic would never work
01:33 PM t4nk_freenode: so I made sth differen
02:00 PM _unreal_: question for you guys. so my daughters machine is a GRBL setup. I'm having issues with the limit switches. they are picking up noise and not sensing right
02:00 PM _unreal_: they are only being pulled high by the internal pull up that is on the arduino
02:01 PM _unreal_: I have two choices. I can set the wires as they are. ACTIVE low. or I can switch the wiring for the limit switches to active high.... but that would need me to switching the wiring to be a series setup with the limit switches at each end of the axis.
02:01 PM _unreal_: do you guys think if I add a 1k pull up I may get rid of the issue?
02:02 PM _unreal_: or would I be wiser to add a 1k pull up and switch the wiring to series and make it active low
02:07 PM Tom_L: shield the wiring
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: possible haunting, thoughts and prayers
02:08 PM _unreal_: 2mm wall's :S thats rather thin
02:08 PM _unreal_: I would suggest standard iron pipe
02:08 PM _unreal_: much stronger
02:08 PM _unreal_: and dirt cheap
02:08 PM Tom_L: lead would be a better choice
02:09 PM _unreal_: naa depleated uranium
02:09 PM _unreal_: harder then shit :)
02:09 PM _unreal_: so any thoughts on what my best choice would be
02:09 PM Tom_L: i just told you
02:09 PM _unreal_: for dealing with the EMI on my limit switch signals
02:10 PM _unreal_: I cant
02:10 PM Tom_L: carry on.
02:10 PM _unreal_: its all in place
02:10 PM _unreal_: wayyyyyy to much work to undo
02:10 PM Tom_L: done right once or done twice
02:11 PM Tom_L: or thrice for some
02:11 PM _unreal_: it was working fine till I unplugged the machine/box DB25 connector
02:11 PM _unreal_: then it just started having switch signal issues
02:11 PM likevinyl is now known as Guest23000
02:11 PM _unreal_: so I dont know what changed
02:12 PM Tom_L: could have been on the threshhold of working/not working
02:12 PM Tom_L: also you could debounce the switches
02:13 PM Tom_L: there are numerous ways to do that
02:14 PM rs[m]: shielded limit switch wiring is nonsense
02:15 PM Tom_L: not if it works
02:15 PM rs[m]: unreal: try something like 5k pull up
02:16 PM robotustra: pullup resistor and 0.1 uF cap for hardware debounce
02:16 PM rs[m]: unreal: if you still get spurious actuations you have some other problem.
02:20 PM rs[m]: unreal: https://www.mikrocontroller.net/wikifiles/f/f8/RC_debouncer.png
02:21 PM * JT-Shop2 tried to sharpen his parting tool on the Tormek but that didn't work out well... angle was wrong, too blunt... over to the belt sander to rough in a 30 degree angle... over to the B&S 612 to grind it and WOW that's a sharp parting tool now
02:22 PM rs[m]: but debouncing on limit switch shouldn't really be necessary, if you hit the limit, you are at end of travel, and need to stop asap, not after some arbitrary RC delay
02:23 PM rs[m]: pull up and cap without the series resistor can be a bit harsh on the contacts of the switch
02:25 PM Tom_L: if you get enough vibration from a cut it can cause a cheap switch to bounce
02:25 PM Tom_L: debouncing will help
02:29 PM robotustra: this schematic is inverting switch logic
02:29 PM robotustra: throw away R2 and IC
02:30 PM robotustra: just leave R1 and cap
02:34 PM rs[m]: think of the IC as the input of the arduino
02:36 PM rs[m]: R2 limits current into cap and defines together with C the delay / how long the switch may bounce
02:36 PM rs[m]: and it limits current accros switch contacts
02:39 PM robotustra: just finished 1 hour manual milling of motor relief
02:39 PM Tom_L: pretty sure he decided without us already
02:39 PM robotustra: All this time I was thinking about cnc-ing it
02:42 PM centreline is now known as Centreline
02:42 PM Centreline: good evening
02:45 PM robotustra: https://imgur.com/a/zU9RoA0
02:45 PM robotustra: 5 mm depth, 95 mm in diameter, a lot of chips
02:45 PM Centreline: on my 7i76, I wired a mpg to enc0 and when I move the mpg enc0.count in hal meter alternates between 0 and 1 , is this likely a wiring issue?
02:46 PM robotustra: it can be an encoder jitter I think
02:46 PM Centreline: its only when I rotate the mpg
02:47 PM Centreline: Im missing something simple. it doesnt actually increment in count
02:47 PM pcw_home: alternating between 1 and 0 usually indicates that you have only A or B working, not both
02:47 PM Centreline: pcw_home, thanks Ill double check now
02:47 PM robotustra: usually encoders have A, B, Z
02:48 PM Tom_L: not an MPG
02:48 PM Centreline: this just has 4 terminals, 0v vcc, A B
02:49 PM robotustra: vcc is 5V?
02:50 PM Centreline: yes its on the 5v connector on tb3
02:50 PM Tom_L: show your encoder.00 settings
02:51 PM Tom_L: in the ini
02:51 PM Tom_L: err hal
02:51 PM Tom_L: sry
02:51 PM pcw_home: also make sure that 5V GND=Fieldpower GND since Fieldpower GND is the encoder input common
02:52 PM Tom_L: pcw, smoke clearing in your area?
02:52 PM pcw_home: No smoke for the last week or so which is a relief...
02:53 PM Centreline: pcw_home, verified 5v and correct polarity at the mpg, Tom_L ill pastebin shortly
02:53 PM Tom_L: Centreline, you can see mine here: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/NEW_MILL_SHOP_2.7/my_jog.hal
02:54 PM Centreline: I can see already I'm missing some setup...
02:54 PM pcw_home: check A and B voltage vs field power GND. They need to swing higher than 3V for High and lower than 2V for low
02:54 PM Centreline: let me see if I can figure out
02:54 PM Centreline: pcw_home, Ill verify that now too
02:55 PM Tom_L: pcw_home, on the opto-outs on the 7i47s spindle how to reverse the logic? just use the opposite opto pin?
02:57 PM pcw_home: You mean you want normally on?
02:57 PM Tom_L: the ENA signal may need reversed on this control
02:59 PM pcw_home: Yeah is its a "apply current to disable" input, that's hard to do with OPTOs which are 99.9% normally off
02:59 PM Tom_L: i can use a relay if need be. i don't have the unit yet... just reading the docs
03:01 PM pcw_home: Depending on how the input works you might also be able to power in continuously with a resistor
03:02 PM pcw_home: to 5V or so and then short out the input with the OPTO (so OPTO on deprives the input of current)
03:02 PM Tom_L: yeah
03:02 PM Tom_L: i'll know more once i get it
03:03 PM pcw_home: or replace the OPTO with a FORM-B SSR = NC in the same package (these do exist)
03:03 PM Tom_L: i had a ssr on the sherline setup
03:03 PM Centreline: Tom_L, on your config what is your board here? setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.counter-mode 0
03:04 PM Tom_L: i'm using a 7i90 / 7i47s
03:05 PM pcw_home: FORM B SSR: CPC1135N
03:05 PM Centreline: ok on my 5i25->7i76 I dont have those pins on the 7i76 section in halscope
03:05 PM Tom_L: pcw, i doubt it will come to that but thanks
03:06 PM Tom_L: Centreline, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/drivers/hostmot2.html#sec:hm2-encoder
03:06 PM pcw_home: those are pretty weird (using normally-on MOSFETS)
03:06 PM Tom_L: new to me
03:07 PM pcw_home: Tom_L: Ceterline is using the 7I76 MPG inputs which are not standard encoders (and much simpler)
03:07 PM Tom_L: ahh ok
03:07 PM Tom_L: nevermind then
03:08 PM Tom_L: i forgot about that one
03:13 PM Centreline: this is my hal, the axis and scaling pins seem to be connected but the encoder count never seems to increment https://pastebin.com/9wrM8F2Q
03:13 PM Centreline: the multimeter is all over the place to measure voltage, Ill hook up my oscilloscope to measure its voltages
03:14 PM Centreline: I can see mark and spaces when I rotate in halscope
03:14 PM Tom_L: the mpg outputs wouldn't happen to be open collector?
03:14 PM Tom_L: if they are, you need to add pullups to them
03:15 PM * Centreline googles the difference
03:15 PM Tom_L: it's left floating
03:15 PM pcw_home: They might need pullups with funky TTL outputs also since they need a > 3V high level
03:17 PM pcw_home: also as I said, make sure the field power GND is connected to 5V MPG GND
03:18 PM pcw_home: ( since the field I/O section of the 7I76 is completely isolated from the logic side if you don't connect them externally )
03:18 PM Deejay: gn8!
03:20 PM Centreline: hmmm my 5i25 has just reported there have been so many errors its disconnected the smart serial port..
03:23 PM Centreline: pcw_home, I wired to the mpg wiring in norberts 7i76e guide, so its wired 5v from pin12 and gnd from tb3 pin9
03:29 PM Centreline: I see I think, Ive wirred the encoder to the field inputs on tb5 but taken power from tb3
03:31 PM Centreline: ill look at wiring more before wasting more of others time, I need to understand instead of blindly following somehting
03:33 PM pcw_home: But is field power GND connected to 5V GND? that's critical
03:40 PM Centreline: my field power is 24v and I have no link between field power gnd and 5v gnd
03:41 PM Centreline: hmmm meter says I do
03:42 PM Tom_L: make sure both GND are tied together
03:43 PM Tom_L: the meter could be reading back thru something else
03:49 PM Centreline: Ill link the tb3 pin 9 gnd with field 24v gnd with a jumper now
03:51 PM Centreline: powering down to do this one as dont want to fry card
03:51 PM Centreline: and Im irc'ing on my control
04:01 PM Centreline: pcw_home, Fixed, thanks again for suggestion
04:02 PM Centreline: I have fully working mpg now
04:02 PM Tom_L: was the GND?
04:03 PM Centreline: yes, thats the only thing I changed and now works fully, can see enc count rising and mpg physically moves selected axis
04:03 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:05 PM andypugh: Yesterday at 1930 I left my mother’s house to drive the 220 miles back home. I had already driven the 220 miles _to_ my mum’s house late that morning.
04:05 PM andypugh: About 50 miles shy of home I got caught in the tailback of an accident on the motorway. (In which someone sadly died)
04:06 PM Centreline: pre lockdown last visit before new restrictions hit?
04:06 PM andypugh: I got stuck in the tailback at 2300. I got back off the closed motorway at 0550.
04:07 PM andypugh: Got home at 0630. 11 hours in the car.
04:07 PM Centreline: 6 hours and they couldnt make it single lane running, it must have been a really bad mess
04:07 PM Tom_L: on a normal 4ish hr drive
04:07 PM andypugh: Someone died, they were doing forensics.
04:07 PM Centreline: yes but normally the team is in and out in a hour or two, I used to work in motorway recovery
04:08 PM andypugh: They actually tunrned us all round, and we drove back to the previous junction on the wrong side.
04:08 PM Centreline: they take data from one lane first so it can be coned into single lane running, or they lift central res and run single lane both ways
04:08 PM andypugh: Not in the UK.
04:08 PM Centreline: thats pretty exceptional
04:08 PM Centreline: it was in the UK I used to be a TSO :)
04:09 PM andypugh: It was a 4-car pileup with a hit-and-rn
04:09 PM Centreline: was a few years back now, Ive been escaped for 20 years
04:10 PM Centreline: sucks all round though
04:10 PM Centreline: I used to work recovery too, and some pretty horrible things had to be cleared up
04:11 PM Centreline: and its the stupid things people do instead of waiting, like the coach that reversed a day trip of people the wrong way up a on-slip to escape, on camera...
04:11 PM andypugh: It was hard to feel too upset about my situation when someone was dying on the road a few car lenghts ahead. I couldn’t see anything from where I was. I chose to continue not seeing anything.
04:12 PM Centreline: yes some are really bad, and some like the drunks who just took themselves out I just used to be meh about
04:14 PM Centreline: its not great all round but it is what it is, glad you made it home eventually though
04:15 PM andypugh: The only part of the process that annoyed me was that they sent us back up the motorway “40 mph max, hazards on” but then stopped us about half a mile later to form up into a convoy, then took us the rest of the 3 miles to the junction at 20mph behind a TO car.
04:16 PM Centreline: rolling block to prep the junction for wrong direction traffic maybe
04:16 PM Centreline: someone ahead not ready so they slowed it down rather than stopping later causing more frustration
04:16 PM andypugh: And I was first behind the TO car, waiting another half an hour before they took us back. And they didn’t even lead through the complicated bit (up the on ramp, onto the roundabout) but waved me past at the start of the slip road.
04:17 PM Centreline: here they have closed egress and exit points on longer stretches, where they sit to speed trap etc, and they just use them
04:17 PM Centreline: but here is not the UK
04:17 PM andypugh: Where is “here” ?
04:18 PM Centreline: France, I live near a autoroute but I've never worked on them here
04:19 PM Centreline: in fact next to one of only two free autoroutes (A20)
04:19 PM andypugh: This was the M11. Just shy of the M25 southbond.
04:20 PM andypugh: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-54315766
04:23 PM Centreline: I know it, the traffic volume around there is intense at the best of times though, driving in the UK feels crazy now when I go back because of traffic density
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: the problem might have been trying to get on a schedule
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: if I go out for a drive in an old car or trying something new nothing ever happens
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: If I have to be somewhere then it's nothing but traffic and delays
04:32 PM JT-Shop: what is a central reservation
04:38 PM Centreline: the strip down the middle dividing the two carriagway directions
04:38 PM Centreline: carriageway
04:38 PM Centreline: thats such a old term isnt it :)
04:39 PM Centreline: they put barriers on it and a gap between the two barriers where weeds can grow in awkward positions and detached truck tyre carcasses can find a resting place
04:42 PM Tom_L: median
04:50 PM andypugh: median is a silly name. (Central reservation is also a silly name)
04:51 PM andypugh: I would go with “middle” or “divider"
04:55 PM Centreline: there's a wiki page where people probably comment fight about which is best and why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_strip
04:55 PM Centreline: I quite like central reservation, its central and its a reserved space, but each to their own
04:58 PM Centreline: there's a section on the m62 where the central reservation grows wide enough to accomodate a farm in the middle of it, when the owner refused to move when they were building it...
05:00 PM andypugh: Urban Myth.
05:01 PM andypugh: (They had to separate the carriageays anyway to reduce the uphul gradients)
05:01 PM andypugh: I know it well, it’s my neck of the woods originally.
05:03 PM andypugh: I am not denying that the farm exists: https://goo.gl/maps/GQqQZnPcQkprADEX9
05:03 PM Centreline: Ive drove it in bad conditions, its not a fun road.
05:04 PM andypugh: The M62 Wikipedia page is interesting. It was a rather major undertaking.
05:05 PM andypugh: Anyway, today I have mainly been a zombie, but got a bit done on my motorcycle lift: https://youtu.be/1OA3wJ3tkUI
05:05 PM andypugh: Proper video to follow.
05:06 PM andypugh: JT-Cave: You might like that, maybe even make one.
05:08 PM andypugh: I am pleased with the linear slide part. Two box sections with PTFE sliders, but mounted into simple drilled holes. Low-tech expedient.
05:10 PM Centreline: yay for the blue ryobi with a later lithium pack :)
05:13 PM andypugh: It’s a great drill.
05:14 PM andypugh: A year after I bought it I cut the plug off my mains drill to use on somethng else, in fact,
05:15 PM andypugh: If you are really geeking out you might notice that the chuck has been changed to a metal-body carbide-jaw DeWalt one.
05:16 PM andypugh: https://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dt7043-qz-keyless-chuck-13mm/4895x
05:23 PM Centreline: Yes I have a mix of blue and shrek coloured ones and their impact gun and some other stuff, Ive only broke one terminally in about 15 years
05:23 PM Centreline: is that lift anchored into a socket embedded in the floor?
05:24 PM andypugh: Yes. Because space is so tight I wanted nothing to trip over.
05:25 PM Centreline: I have a pump up, but because you always need n+1 workbenches, I made a static one at the same height and can use it to load bikes onto that and have the pump up free for short term jobs
05:25 PM andypugh: It’s like a https://www.demon-tweeks.com/abba-sky-lift-malskylift/?istCompanyId=a2904180-3a7d-4e56-b876-cf81c9512180&istFeedId=6fbc4b04-fd28-4ce1-8513-835c8f118690&istItemId=wliqriqax&istBid=t&gclid=CjwKCAjw8MD7BRArEiwAGZsrBYoMepMWlJHK9B8GRyq1G5EwTLItDdAEQW9HUfslFWpbLD4GsC9kQxoCy8UQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds but made as compact as possible with nothing to trip over.
05:25 PM Centreline: net result, now two bikes are in bits on the two sections of ramps
05:26 PM Centreline: and my race bike is on a steel filing cabinet so I can wheel it round out the way
05:26 PM andypugh: I need to drop the sump on my R1 to swap the oil/water pump. (as the water pump seal is leaking)
05:26 PM Tom_L: nice lift andy
05:27 PM andypugh: And lying on my back to do it fell victim to a displacement activity of making a lift instead.
05:29 PM Tom_L: they use similar screw drive on NASCAR trailers
05:29 PM andypugh: With most bike lifts I don’t even see how they are meant to work. The ones that lift by the wheels mean you can’t take the wheels off, and the (very common) parallelogram ones only work if the frame runs under the engine and there is no exhaust.
05:30 PM Centreline: http://gallery.pipandphil.com/Vehicles/workshop/floor_nearlydone.jpg
05:31 PM Centreline: most bikes you dont need to get access to underneath to do most jobs, or didnt anyway
05:32 PM Centreline: you can make adaptors for the parallelogram ones to suit your bike if the exhaust is in the way, I use one on the hydraulic lift itself
05:32 PM andypugh: If I had seen this 2 weeks ago I would probably just have bought it :-) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-lift-Motorbike-stand-Eazyrizer-Original-Red-Guaranteed-for-Life/254618608279
05:34 PM andypugh: But mine will lift by either the swingarm or the footpeg hanged holes,
05:35 PM Centreline: Here, its being jacked up while the rear swingarm is worked on http://gallery.pipandphil.com/Vehicles/workshop/turbosprocketplate3.jpg
05:35 PM Centreline: the front end is strapped and the jack just lifts it midships
05:36 PM andypugh: This style just won’t work for an R1 without work, and even then don’t lift to the height my back would like. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liftmaster-680Kg-Motorcycle-Bike-Lift-ATV-QUAD-Jack-1500LB/143022260550
05:36 PM Centreline: one day I swear to put bobbins for stands on everything, but its no use at this stage of the build
05:37 PM Centreline: no, on the floor they dont lift high enough, unless you buy one of those insane scissor lift types they sell for offroad bikes but they look so unstable
05:37 PM andypugh: What the heck is that mutant?
05:37 PM Centreline: but on a ramp/build bench, theyre perfect :D
05:37 PM Centreline: its a gpz750 turbo, with a blade swingarm and wheels, gsxr1100m forks, and lots of homemade stuff
05:38 PM andypugh: I set mine 12” into the floor. No way that’s going to topple.
05:39 PM andypugh: I fllowed one of those roind the ‘Ring in 1999. It was scary. The rider was good, the bike looked like it wanted to tie itself in knots.
05:39 PM Centreline: this is what I meant by high lift http://www.pro-lift-montagetechnik.com/Enduro-motorcycle-lift-135-kg-with-foot-pump-blue-ML13HSJ-00584
05:39 PM Centreline: they look so unstable
05:40 PM Centreline: I had a original one with standard running gear but more boost etc, and it was scary to ride everything was so flexy, hence this build
05:40 PM andypugh: Yes, but, with an enduro, if it falls over you pick it up. It’s normal to lay them on their side to jetwash them.
05:40 PM Centreline: I added frame bracing to help with the rigidity, and the arm/better forks should help too
05:41 PM Centreline: Id cry if one of my classic enduro's fell off a jackstand :D
05:42 PM andypugh: You might like this blog: https://solcambs.wordpress.com
05:42 PM andypugh: (Friend of mine, I made his new shock lowers)
05:42 PM JT-Cave: andypugh, how is the lift fastened to the floor?
05:42 PM Centreline: I know katana's quite well, I used to run oldskoolperformance.com dealing in that sort of thing before I got social media burnt out
05:43 PM andypugh: JT-Cave: I core-drilled a hole and concreted in a socket.
05:43 PM JT-Cave: nice, I need to make a portable bike lift that will also lift the Spyder
05:44 PM andypugh: I decided that there was only one place that I could work on a bike, so portable mattered less than “compact”
05:44 PM JT-Cave: yes that makes sense in your shop
05:44 PM JT-Cave: did you use acme thread for the lift screw?
05:46 PM andypugh: The screw is currently just M20 studding. Smaller would be better, but the original design had the screw in compression and the buckling analysis said “20mm to be sure)
05:47 PM andypugh: Required torque would be much lower at 12mm. But by then I had bought the 3m length of 20mm
05:47 PM JT-Cave: is that similar to our "all thread"
05:47 PM andypugh: On the plus side, I need to worry less about nut wear at 20mm
05:47 PM andypugh: Yes, it’s the same stuff.
05:48 PM Centreline: need a fall arrest system if the nut strips next :)
05:48 PM Centreline: like on a car ramp
05:48 PM JT-Cave: call otis
05:48 PM andypugh: I plan on a spring-loaded pin
05:48 PM Centreline: they have fingers that engage in slots on the body if it freefalls on FOG ones
05:49 PM andypugh: But, to be honest, worst case the bike drops straight done onto its wheels (if fitted at the time)
05:49 PM Centreline: or onto you when you are working under it wellying something that needs to come out
05:50 PM JT-Cave: not much chance of wearing out a M20 nut in your lifetime
05:50 PM andypugh: The more worrying failure mode is the weld between the slider and the lifting bar.
05:51 PM Centreline: I thought at previous house of getting a two post lift and splitting the two halves and having them on the walls to lift bikes on
05:51 PM andypugh: I plan on leaving the bike on the loft for a few days mere mm above the ground while periodicallly bouncing on the arm until I feel confident.
05:51 PM Centreline: but it was easier to move somewhere else because property is cheap here than find innovative space solutions
05:52 PM JT-Cave: does the bike weigh more than you?
05:53 PM andypugh: If I moved in witl my mum I would have loads of space. Like actual barns and a spare uningabited house. But it’s too far from work.
05:54 PM JT-Cave: long bicycle ride from your mum?
05:54 PM andypugh: JT-Cave: Yes the bike weighs about twice as mucj as me, but would also be twice as close to the column.
05:54 PM Centreline: how will your bike be clamped to it in use?
05:55 PM JT-Cave: my BlueWing weighs in at 900 lbs I'm always surprised how light my road bicycle is
05:56 PM Centreline: andypugh, your friend needs to check his clutch basket if its rattling under light load...
05:57 PM JT-Cave: well actually it's 835 pounds or 379 kg
05:59 PM andypugh: Centreline: Pins in to the swingarm pivots initially. The “not just pivoting around that point” is yet to be decided. But probably a genral-purpose arm and a ratchet strap.
06:02 PM Centreline: on tailgate motorcycle carriers they have a upright on the Y element too to secure the bike in the Z
06:03 PM Centreline: JT-Cave, I'm not sure I'd like to drag that round in a tight space! 379kg...
06:04 PM Centreline: well 1am and work at 9, so best leave spindle for another night, gnite all
07:30 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:32 PM skunkworks: I setup retropie for the kids.. been playing mario cart... Don't know yet if this is a bad idea or not
07:34 PM JavaBean: yeah, its a bad idea. extremely bad. you have been playing mario cart with the kids, not doing new projects
07:35 PM XXCoder: yeah its bad because you didnt bribe me
07:42 PM JavaBean: just because you have your hand out doesn't mean random people are going to put money in it on their way by... you aren't my coworker
07:44 PM JavaBean: well, technically he had his hat in his hand... but that whole event kinda blew everyones mind
07:47 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:51 PM XXCoder: JavaBean: lol ok
07:58 PM JavaBean: dude, it was insane. he was sitting outside ace hardware smoking a cig, wearing oaklies and a leather jacket and clean shaved. him and the other dude i work with both said that he wasn't saying anything, just sitting there with his hat in his hand. the boss and i walk out just as someone drops a dollar in his hat. and that dude gave me a "what are you looking at" look as he walks by me to go
07:59 PM JavaBean: into the store... coworker said it looked like someone hit me with a shovel, my mind was blown. when the boss figured it out, his mind was blown. they just laughed, he had no clue someone would actually drop him money
08:01 PM JavaBean: you had to be there, you had to know the person involved. but as i was there, and know the person... dude wtf??? how?
08:12 PM unterhaus_: I took a nap in my car at a rest stop and someone tried to give me money
08:12 PM unterhaus_: car was a mess, but it was a new car
08:13 PM likevinyl is now known as Guest57665
08:30 PM JavaBean: he wasn't a "mess". no visual clues that he was "hard up" for money
08:49 PM CaptHindsight: JavaBean: how did he dress and where is this corner? :)
08:55 PM JavaBean: elpaso tx. nice leather jacket, oakly shades, new shoes and bluejeans. smoking marb's and its not a "corner", the ace hardware was part of a strip mall. ace was on one end of it