#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 17 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:38 AM CaptHindsight: lead, spent uranium
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: granite, iron
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: dup ends on what you have to work with and what shape you need
12:44 AM roycroft: the aqi by my house is now 4.7
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table#/media/File:Simple_Periodic_Table_Chart-en.svg
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: handy chart ^^
12:44 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: woot \o/
12:44 AM roycroft: the smoke is officially gone, for now
12:44 AM roycroft: yeah
12:44 AM roycroft: i can literally breathe easier now
12:44 AM roycroft: that was horrible
12:46 AM CaptHindsight: heavy water :)
12:46 AM veegee: I can steal sand from the beach as well
12:46 AM veegee: lead would be ideal, but I can buy a whole new forklift https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-equipment-machinery/trenton-on/yale-2500lb-hard-tire-forklift-as-is/1522589988 and just salvage the metal for weight
12:46 AM CaptHindsight: anything that says "Buick Roadmaster"
12:46 AM veegee: there are even cheaper ones than that
12:47 AM CaptHindsight: I need to move to Canada
12:48 AM CaptHindsight: get away from crazy people
12:48 AM CaptHindsight: better deals on used stuff
12:48 AM veegee: They list steel as $0.40/lb and lead as $0.30?
12:48 AM veegee: http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical_large.html
12:49 AM veegee: How old is that chart? It's more expensive than iron
12:49 AM CaptHindsight: lead is more desne and cost less but is more toxic
12:49 AM veegee: Like more than $1.00/lb in Canada
12:49 AM veegee: it'll be encased in a steel enclosure
12:49 AM veegee: not going to be toxic to anything
12:49 AM CaptHindsight: start a border war, you'll get plenty of ree lead :p
12:49 AM CaptHindsight: free
12:50 AM veegee: there are companies here that will come to your door and pour lead into your mould for exactly this purpose - custom counterweights
12:50 AM veegee: even they say go with steel because it's much cheaper if space isn't an issue
12:50 AM veegee: space isn't an issue for me, at least not at the amount of weight I need
12:51 AM veegee: Like 2,000kg would be more than enough for my needs
12:51 AM veegee: CaptHindsight https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-equipment-machinery/belleville/forklift-for-sale/1522357243
12:51 AM veegee: also that is a damn good deal ^
12:52 AM veegee: they don't know the capacity but based on the size and pneumatic tires and condition of the paint, probably at least 8,000 lb capacity
12:52 AM CaptHindsight: pretty much whatever it weighs
12:53 AM veegee: Hmmm maybe I can start a car battery "recycling" program
12:53 AM veegee: wait never mind, they give you some money back to take your old battery
12:53 AM veegee: ORRR electric forklifts with "dead batteries" are soo cheap
12:53 AM veegee: I can just melt the lead from those
12:53 AM XXCoder: why you need lot of lead?
12:54 AM veegee: XXCoder increase counterweight for my allis chalmers overbuilt forklift
12:54 AM XXCoder: ahh ok
12:54 AM veegee: its hydraulics and such can easily do 10,000lb+, but counterweight makes it only good for 6,000 lb
12:54 AM veegee: it's built damn solid, I'm not worried about over stressing anything. They likely had the same frame for multiple capacities
12:55 AM veegee: it was doing a fine job lifting a 10,000lb forklift against a concrete wall, but then obviously started to tip forward. That was fun
12:56 AM XXCoder: whats you do with rest of forklift lol
12:56 AM XXCoder: (assuming you buy dead ones for batteries)
12:57 AM veegee: put in a new battery
12:57 AM veegee: I only just need one
12:58 AM veegee: I'd put in a custom LiFePO4 pack
12:58 AM veegee: but depending on price, salvage it
12:58 AM XXCoder: i know batteries is used for counterbalance too, but I wonder if you could use lathium ion for better run time heh
12:59 AM Deejay: moin
12:59 AM veegee: yes lithium iron vastly superior to lead acid
12:59 AM veegee: I'd tear down the lead acid cells and just collect and melt the metal inside
12:59 AM veegee: the lead would then be a very easily poured counterweight
01:00 AM XXCoder: cool
01:00 AM veegee: I can make custom modular stacks and cast lead in them
01:01 AM veegee: If I can turn my hobby workshop into a business, I'd just get a 15,000 lb electric hyster and be done with it
01:01 AM veegee: but no income from this shop so I have to pull all these shenanigans for the time being
01:01 AM XXCoder: indeed
01:02 AM veegee: But purpose of shop is learning and experimentation and this is just that, so not upset about it either
01:03 AM veegee: And CaptHindsight yes come to canada
01:03 AM veegee: Come to Toronto, I'll show you around
01:04 AM veegee: You'll see sane people here
01:04 AM veegee: and check out my workshop and push on the other end of the press brake to get it rolling. I'll pull
01:06 AM XXCoder: i do want to move to canada, but canada ada suck
01:06 AM XXCoder: i'd be on dole forever lol
01:14 AM gloops: sounds like a plan lol
01:17 AM XXCoder: no.
01:21 AM rue_mohr: anyone here doing aluminum casting?
04:55 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:55 AM Tom_L: morning
06:25 AM JT-Cave: yo
06:25 AM JT-Cave: 61°F this morning... finally getting some cooler weather
06:52 AM beachbumpete1: Morning
07:14 AM JavaBean: shhh, daystar hasn't come to my area yet. if you don't remind it, maybe it will forget to come here
07:22 AM beachbumpete1: hehe
08:22 AM Loetmichel: hehe, good thing o dont throw away any old CNC files... coworker "hey, can you make an alu enclosure for this Notebook power brick?" "sure thing, gimme a moment..." one hour later: "done, painting and then you can put that in..." "You have designed AND CAMed AND milled an enclosure in 1 hour?" Nope, had the files from the last model notebook still on the CNC, just had to put some sheet metal
08:22 AM Loetmichel: on... PSU has the same size" :-)
08:29 AM JavaBean: i am sure someone that isn't as good as me would call you a "smartass"
09:02 AM rue_mohr: gloops, I am, but I could use some improvement pointers
09:09 AM Loetmichel: huuuargh... maan, boss and Dr.Ing just have a webex with some customers.... i mean that interface is frommcisco, buit still: how hard is it to selct thhe right camera and microphobne and click on "join"?
09:17 AM robotustra: rue_mohr, hi
09:17 AM rue_mohr: hi
09:21 AM robotustra: how are you robots?
09:22 AM rue_mohr: lots of projects
09:22 AM rue_mohr: tho, not an awesome year
09:22 AM robotustra: this year is not awersome almost for all ppl
09:43 AM beachbumpete1: Anyone here into astronomy or astro photography?
09:52 AM robotustra: there is one guy from Belarus who is into it, I know him a little bit, but he is not in here
09:53 AM robotustra: he has built his own telescope
09:53 AM robotustra: beachbumpete1, http://astro.ioda.by/en
09:55 AM beachbumpete1: Is that you?
09:55 AM beachbumpete1: ah ok
09:55 AM robotustra: no, I know him
09:56 AM beachbumpete1: I just bought an 10 inch newtonian astrograph for this but I am unsure what size mag lens to get for casual viewing and was hoping someone in here has an idea..
09:56 AM beachbumpete1: I need to order the camera adapter etc
09:56 AM beachbumpete1: this shit is expensive ;)
09:57 AM robotustra: so you want to make an adapter for your camera yourself?
09:58 AM robotustra: just for test you can use any lens, even simple lens for glasses, after you fing out what you need you can buy professional one
09:59 AM robotustra: just to try +1 +2 and +3 dioptries glasses
10:00 AM robotustra: and you'll have an idea what magnification you need
10:01 AM robotustra: what is the apperture of your camera?
10:01 AM robotustra: I can give you an approximate magnification for your system
10:02 AM robotustra: apperture of Newton telescope is 1/2 * D/L
10:03 AM robotustra: D - is a mirror diameter and L is the Focuse distance of the mirror
10:04 AM robotustra: to get the magnification of the adapter you need to devide the apperture of your camera by the apperture of telescote
10:04 AM robotustra: raughly
10:04 AM robotustra: it will be the approximate value
10:06 AM beachbumpete1: well it uses a 2" lens system and they are available in various metric sizes like 26mm 32mm 44mm and then you get a barlow lens etc. Just want to buy ONE lens at first to see what it will look like and then adjust from there. The telescope is a skywatcher 10inch quattro newtonian reflector f4
10:10 AM robotustra: for the test I would remove ocular an try to focus on the image
10:11 AM robotustra: from the image size it's already possible to say what magnification lens do you need
10:12 AM CaptHindsight: rue_mohr> anyone here doing aluminum casting? yes, why do you ask?
10:13 AM CaptHindsight: JT-Cave: have you tried QTPYVCP on the Rpi4's yet?
10:14 AM robotustra: beachbumpete1, there are plenty of videos on youtube even how to make own barlow lens https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=magnification+lens+on+telescope
10:15 AM robotustra: actually, as soon as I understand - all lens will work, the only difference will be the final magnification
10:15 AM beachbumpete1: Thanks man I do not wish to make anything for this at first. Just want to order a suitable lens so we can enjoy the scope right away.
10:16 AM beachbumpete1: so its apparenlty either a 26mm, a 32mm, or a 44mm... I do not know what to get. I will order a 2" barlow lens aslo but that is simple.
10:16 AM robotustra: on your place I would buy the middle one
10:16 AM beachbumpete1: Thats what I am thinking
10:17 AM beachbumpete1: Its funny I joined an astronomy IRC and asked in there and nobody had an answer LOL
10:17 AM beachbumpete1: I always seem to come in here and find answers or at least people willing to try to help.
10:17 AM robotustra: because it could happen that on a big megnification the imperfections of optical system can play the role
10:17 AM robotustra: beachbumpete1, I'm a physicist
10:18 AM robotustra: that's why I uknow optics a little bit
10:18 AM robotustra: know
10:18 AM beachbumpete1: hehe Im in good company here
10:19 AM beachbumpete1: I got this for my daughter, she has expressed an interest in astronomy etc.
10:19 AM beachbumpete1: so I figure jump in with both feet LOL
10:19 AM robotustra: it was long time ago, but optics didn't change much since that time :)
10:19 AM robotustra: beachbumpete1, beware that your daughter can change her mind :)
10:20 AM robotustra: all daughters are like this
10:20 AM robotustra: mines too
10:22 AM beachbumpete1: Well hell yeah she can. and probably will..... which will leave me with a very cool telescope to play with. I don't know how I will get along hehehe
10:22 AM robotustra: you'll become an astronomer
10:23 AM robotustra: my kids did the same tric with microscope, but I use it from time to time
10:25 AM beachbumpete1: https://imgur.com/gallery/1CJlYo6
10:25 AM robotustra: to use a scientific tools you will need to be a little bit a scientist
10:25 AM beachbumpete1: Just a test cut using Fusion360 on our 5x12 commercial CNC router
10:26 AM beachbumpete1: I am kind of a technical guy
10:26 AM beachbumpete1: usually gravitate to this sort of stuff
10:26 AM beachbumpete1: actually I was kinda excited when she expressed interest
10:26 AM beachbumpete1: it is something I have wanted to explore for a long time
10:26 AM beachbumpete1: its a DEEP rabbit hole.
10:27 AM robotustra: yep, scientific toys are expensive. Even usual cnc machine are expensive toys
10:27 AM beachbumpete1: Yeah I know I have several CNC's
10:28 AM beachbumpete1: The folks in here helped me build my Cincinatta Arrow 500 VMC that is used almost daily for about 10 years now. Still works great.
10:32 AM robotustra: are you professional machinist?
10:32 AM beachbumpete1: Yes
10:33 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: XXCoder thank you, thank you, thank you, the HVAC is SO much quieter now!!!
10:33 AM robotustra: beachbumpete1, are you working for some company or you are a company yourself?
10:34 AM beachbumpete1: I am the head designer and CNC programmer for my employer and have worked in several different CNC shops now. I also have my own business making custom parts for precision airguns
10:34 AM robotustra: I'm asking because I would like to go into machining too
10:34 AM beachbumpete1: Jump in man the waters warm ;)
10:34 AM robotustra: what cad/cam do you use?
10:34 AM beachbumpete1: Never met a physicist that wanted to be a machinist however hehe
10:35 AM CaptHindsight: beachbumpete1: I'm making airguns now as well, but for launching seed pods vs paintballs
10:35 AM robotustra: I was a physicist 10 years ago, now I'm an embedded programmer
10:35 AM beachbumpete1: I have used Solidworks and Mastercam, Now mostly use Fusion360 and some cabinet specific softwares we have
10:35 AM robotustra: but as soon as I'm building my own cnc devices I would like to shift to cnc area
10:35 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: seed pods?
10:35 AM beachbumpete1: Yeah the guns I make parts for are not paintball guns
10:36 AM robotustra: kinda embedded/software
10:36 AM beachbumpete1: More like Olympic style precision air rifles
10:36 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: pods that contain germinated seeds and nutrients for growth in a water soluble shell
10:37 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Ah, and why do they have to be launched?
10:37 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: mounted on drones for delivery into the soil by air
10:38 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: drone, ah gotcha
10:38 AM robotustra: beachbumpete1, there is a joke about biathlon: "I don't now how it's possible to come to finish not the first if you have a rifle on hands"
10:40 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: plants 100k-500k/day
10:41 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: how many acres ?
10:42 AM robotustra: beachbumpete1, my speciality in physics were solid state physics, actually I was closer to metal and than some machinists
10:43 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: spacing varies by species but use 10ft spacing as a reference
10:43 AM robotustra: of cause it was a theory, now I would like to use this theory :)
10:44 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: so this isn't food, but more like trees?
10:45 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: trees right now but this could be expanded for other types of plants
10:45 AM CaptHindsight: tree forests are rarely flat lands, why the drones vs typical farm equipment
10:46 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Cool, where is the sowing being done?
10:46 AM JT-Cave: CaptHindsight, not yet
10:47 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: worldwide but the hot spots now are Canada, Australia
10:47 AM CaptHindsight: Canada has a goal of 1 billion by 2027
10:51 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXophqU-rp4 similar
10:51 AM CaptHindsight: they use a pod like a ping pong ball
10:53 AM CaptHindsight: I'm working on pod designs for higher yield
10:54 AM CaptHindsight: the ball or shell doesn't always break down properly so the seedlings get stuck and die
10:55 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: HAve you tried rice paper? Hard when dry, put breaks down with very little water
10:56 AM jymmmm: but*
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: yes, similar. i also have water soluble resins that cure when exposed to UV in a second
10:57 AM jymmmm: ah
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: the resins also act as a water reservoir when they get wet with rain
10:58 AM CaptHindsight: have to make 500K shells/pods a day, so it all has to be automated
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: so it's similar to capsules made for pharmaceuticals
11:01 AM jymmmm: oh gelitan
11:01 AM CaptHindsight: 500-2000 acres per day
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: water soluble gels with different properties when dry
11:03 AM jymmmm: why synthetic stuff, instead of like you said f jumbo medicine capsules?
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: tough and dense for the tip, just strong enough membrane for the seeds and nutrients
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: the capsules don't break down easy enough in the rain
11:04 AM jymmmm: ah
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: so the little seedling sprouts and gets stuck in the capsule
11:04 AM CaptHindsight: and gives up
11:05 AM CaptHindsight: best design so far is a tough tip for touchdown and the back of the pod is open
11:05 AM jymmmm: like a flower?
11:06 AM jymmmm: add a pop cap to them
11:07 AM jymmmm: those things that you throw on the ground and they make a pop
11:07 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.featurepics.com/online/Badminton-Shuttle-543944.aspx
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: has to be simple and automated, yet fool proof
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: limited fools are involved so it make this easier
11:10 AM CaptHindsight: the "synthetic stuff" is controllable
11:10 AM CaptHindsight: paintballs use gelatine but it has to be cooled and dried and kept round
11:11 AM jymmmm: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/c7/0a/dcc70af62fcc4fd8bc341c57cc485171.jpg
11:11 AM CaptHindsight: so it's time and energy intensive
11:11 AM jymmmm: does it have to be round? what about oval?
11:13 AM CaptHindsight: any shape that works
11:14 AM CaptHindsight: https://i.bnet.com/blogs/110814-maple-seed.jpg maple
11:15 AM Rab: CaptHindsight, do they survey the terrain before planting? Seems like one size might not fit all topsoil. And if it's terrain-dependant, does there need to be variability in the process?
11:15 AM jymmmm: I'd look into candy packaging, some have toys inside, all automated, then use UV biodegradable plastics, like grocery bag plastics
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: yes, working on optimizing the pods
11:17 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: grocery bag plastics degrade too slowly
11:17 AM jymmmm: ah
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: they even have drones that check back on progress
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: every tree gets indexed so this also creates quite a detailed map of the area
11:20 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Well, why not the pop caps? A tiny explosive round wont hurt the seeds, made out of thin tissue paper, and they burst open, They gotta be automated, and very much like your maple seed.
11:21 AM Rab: You know chinese children are twisting up those pop caps.
11:21 AM jymmmm: Rab: are they?
11:22 AM Rab: I have no evidence either way. But I am not convinced it's automated.
11:22 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: doesn't need it, you have the force from the impact
11:23 AM jymmmm: ok
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: ideally the seeds should land their diameter under the soil
11:25 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Oh, I got it.... add a razor blade on the end of the dispensing barrel. It'll slit the ball and no more having to fight to get out
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: seeds vary in diameter so the design will vary
11:27 AM jymmmm: or just a good old fashion seed spreader and a hopper
11:27 AM Rab: Is there an issue with directional pods--shuttlecock or whatever--tumbling in flight? I guess the prior art would be air rifle darts.
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: up to 6/second will be manufactured
11:28 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Nothing to mfg, just fill the hopper with germinated seed
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: they self align
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: Regardless of initial orientation, it will turn to fly cork first, and remain in the cork-first orientation.
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttlecock
11:31 AM Rab: I have observed this myself, playing badminton. But there's a lot of drag. I guess the ideal shape would be a teardrop.
11:31 AM jymmmm: seeding machine.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ycc5Slwtzo
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: so imagine having to now plant what is in all those small cups
11:34 AM CaptHindsight: if all you have to do is spread seeds then you could just drop them from a helicopter or small plane
11:34 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: you said nutriants, why not compressed nutriant rich sawdust with the seed inside?
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: has to breakdown quickly when it rains or the seedling dies
11:35 AM jymmmm: Right, you can control how compressed it is, and will just breka apart like a cracker
11:37 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIfWt7Y4dLQ
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: working on getting the yields up
11:39 AM jymmmm: I still say look at candy making/packaging process/machines, it's exactly what they do, millions a day
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: already done
11:44 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: why not a good old fashion seed spreader?
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/uWmAX2-vraw?t=87
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: no roads, rough terrain
11:45 AM norias: uh
11:46 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: No, no, I mean drone mounted/modified one of these... https://www.greenpartstore.com/assets/images/jdsaccessories/2011/lp35445.jpg
11:46 AM norias: i feel like this is more complicated than needed
11:47 AM norias: why not just use one of those bombs with submunitions
11:47 AM jymmmm: no packaging required, just fill the hopper and go
11:47 AM norias: and use velocity to plant the trees?
11:47 AM CaptHindsight: YIELD
11:47 AM norias: jymmm: broadcasting has generally bad results
11:48 AM norias: see also seed drill
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: not sure if i mentioned this before enough, YIELD
11:48 AM jymmmm: Living up here, I've seen the seeds fall and there's a sampling grow, lots of them
11:48 AM jymmmm: sapling*
11:49 AM jymmmm: and in hard clay soil too
11:50 AM norias: at what rate?
11:50 AM norias: if you are paying for seed, you care what percentage sprouts
11:50 AM jymmmm: norias: I have to pull about 40-50 of them every spring on a 1/3 acre
11:51 AM norias: 40-50 out of how many seeds?
11:51 AM jymmmm: norias: IDK, I didn't ask the trees
11:51 AM norias: so you don't know how effective it is
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7OQ_ayQTog How Paintballs Are Made
11:51 AM norias: so, right, seed drills are more effective than broadcast
11:52 AM jymmmm: norias: Still can play the percentages, drop 100 seed, get a 10% yield, not too bad
11:52 AM norias: broadcast isn't generally considered commercially viable
11:52 AM norias: 10% yield would be terrible
11:52 AM roycroft: the smoke is back :(
11:52 AM roycroft: so far not nearly as bad as it's been, but it's definitely back
11:52 AM jymmmm: norias: you will never get 100%, no matter what
11:52 AM CaptHindsight: see how energy intensive the gel process is ^^
11:53 AM norias: jymmmm: this is true, but that doesn't mean that broadcast is a very low yield compared to other methods
11:54 AM jymmmm: norias: I'm only going by what I actually see happening here naturally
11:54 AM norias: well, trees don't have seed drills
11:54 AM jymmmm: exactly, by that populate massively
11:54 AM norias: but people do, and that's why they don't do broadcast if they are trying to make money
11:54 AM jymmmm: but*
11:55 AM roycroft: reforestation is not done by planting seeds
11:55 AM roycroft: i'ts done by planting saplings
11:55 AM CaptHindsight: drilling might end up being the most effective way in clay soils
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: yes, that is old manual way of reforestation
11:57 AM roycroft: and the most efficient way to plant saplings is a person with a hoedad
11:57 AM jymmmm: Ok, encapsulate the seed in poop, it's how birds have done it
11:58 AM roycroft: capthindsight: it's how everyone does it around here
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: I hear there are collection boxes everywhere
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: by drone is a fraction of the cost
11:59 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: It's nurtiant rich, organic, will break apart, etc
11:59 AM roycroft: i drive by fresh clearcuts every day
11:59 AM roycroft: or did, when i was working at the office
11:59 AM roycroft: and they are always replanted with saplings
12:00 PM roycroft: the tract is clear cut
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: yes, that is how it has been done
12:00 PM roycroft: then there's a burnoff of the stumps/branches in the fall
12:00 PM roycroft: the next spring the saplings are planted
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: now there are faster and lower cost methods
12:01 PM roycroft: then why are the timber companies not using them?
12:01 PM jymmmm: roycroft: yield potential
12:01 PM roycroft: it my be regulatory
12:01 PM CaptHindsight: they are, not sure whats going on in the US
12:01 PM roycroft: i don't see how it's faster to plant seeds than saplings
12:01 PM roycroft: and it may be for erosion control
12:02 PM roycroft: if you plant seeds it takes a couple or three years before the saplings emerge and grow enough to stop erosion
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: oh yeah we have idiot running things
12:02 PM roycroft: if you plant saplings they stop erosion right away
12:02 PM roycroft: perhaps where erosion is not so much of an issue it makes more sense to plant seeds
12:03 PM roycroft: that would be my speculation
12:03 PM jymmmm: there are very fast growing ground cover that can be used for erosion control, just look at wheatgrass, from seed to plant in 4 days
12:03 PM roycroft: almost all of our logging takes place in very steep, rugged terrain
12:03 PM CaptHindsight: tree expert question, I'm just working on pods and delivery mechanisms
12:04 PM roycroft: jymmmm: now you have two plantings to deal with
12:04 PM roycroft: and that drives the cost up
12:04 PM jymmmm: roycroft: not if by drone
12:04 PM roycroft: drones are not free
12:04 PM roycroft: seeds are not free
12:04 PM roycroft: i'm certainly no expert on this
12:04 PM CaptHindsight: sounds simple until you have to do everything in volume
12:04 PM roycroft: i can only report what i observe
12:04 PM jymmmm: roycroft: it's not the materielas, it's the manpower
12:05 PM CaptHindsight: it's dirt cheap
12:05 PM roycroft: if you plant randomly you have to pay for the cost of thinning
12:06 PM roycroft: which has to be done to a degree even when saplings are planted manually, but to a much lesser degree
12:06 PM roycroft: if you broadcast seeds there's a lot more thinning to do
12:06 PM roycroft: if you don't broadcast the seeds you may have to replant if not enough saplings emerge
12:07 PM roycroft: so maybe drones don't make sense everywhere
12:07 PM roycroft: what i know is that our timber industry loves saving money and loves not having to pay people to do stuff
12:08 PM roycroft: so i doubt that it's "old school thinking" that keeps the folks with the hoedads employed around here
12:09 PM CaptHindsight: most of the people involved are more tree people than electrical, mechanical and software engineers
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: I have wondered but not for long about why not in the USA
12:13 PM roycroft: if it really were more cost effective i'm sure the timber industry here would do it
12:13 PM CaptHindsight: drones have some traction in the fertilizing and pest control
12:13 PM CaptHindsight: it is more cost effective
12:14 PM CaptHindsight: most things end up with either stupid or crazy and as the answer here
12:14 PM roycroft: honestly, not when it comes to money
12:15 PM CaptHindsight: it can take a while
12:15 PM roycroft: if they have to invest a lot in erosion control while the seeds are taking root there may not be a net savings
12:15 PM CaptHindsight: BIOS in every PC is a good example
12:16 PM roycroft: that's actually a completely different case
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: a completely unnecessary cost in every PC, but was a multi-billion dollar industry
12:16 PM roycroft: with the bios in a pc you're dealing with legacy systems and having to interoperate with a *lot* of third-party code
12:16 PM roycroft: it's hard to change that
12:16 PM roycroft: with clear cut forests that's not the case a all
12:16 PM roycroft: you're literally starting from scratch every time
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: legacy is not the issue
12:17 PM unterhaus: anyone have a recent price for 3d cad from solidworks?
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: it was keeping the BIOS vendors in business for no other reason than just make money for themselves
12:18 PM roycroft: unterhaus: when we bought it (in 2011) it was about $5500, iirc
12:18 PM roycroft: it would only have gone up since then
12:19 PM roycroft: that's not recent
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: open source BIOS is free and would save everyone a $1 on each PC
12:19 PM roycroft: but it should give you a rough idea
12:19 PM unterhaus: that's just cad?
12:19 PM roycroft: we got a bundle, with the rendering stuff and the libraries
12:19 PM norias: unterhaus: a lot of times that depends on the leverage you have
12:19 PM roycroft: but i think the base license was not much less
12:20 PM unterhaus: my only leverage is that I'm broke
12:20 PM norias: unterhaus: they purposely make pricing not straight forward
12:20 PM roycroft: for rough estimating, $5k is about what it costs to get entry level cad software like that
12:20 PM roycroft: $10k-$150k for the high end stuff
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: I don't mind people getting paid to plant trees by hand
12:20 PM norias: yeah, i feel like $10k is more realistic
12:20 PM roycroft: freecad goes for the cost of downloading it though :)
12:20 PM roycroft: if you're broke
12:20 PM norias: i feel like last time i saw numbers, maybe a year ago
12:21 PM norias: it was around $8k
12:21 PM unterhaus: and the cost of wrapping your head around it
12:21 PM norias: soooo
12:21 PM norias: unterhaus: you like airplanes?
12:21 PM roycroft: you an get a fusion 360 license for free
12:21 PM roycroft: if you're willing to give autodesk all your files
12:21 PM roycroft: and are willing to have your software call home all the time
12:21 PM unterhaus: they are pretty much crippling that fusion free license
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: One license of SOLIDWORKS Standard is $3,995. The Annual Subscription service for a standard license, which covers technical support, upgrades, and more for one year, is $1,295.
12:22 PM unterhaus: can't get parts made by an online cnc shop, for example
12:22 PM roycroft: you can give openscad a go
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.scan2cad.com/cad/solidworks-pricing/
12:22 PM roycroft: if that's more your cup of tea
12:22 PM roycroft: some folks like doing things programatically
12:23 PM CaptHindsight: 2018 pricing ^^
12:23 PM unterhaus: I sorta liked openscad, never made a drawing with it though
12:24 PM unterhaus: I see I have the installer for freecad, but never installed
12:24 PM unterhaus: there apparently is a good branch, someone said to contribute to the guy's patreon
12:25 PM roycroft: i've done some stuff with openscad
12:26 PM roycroft: it has potential, for sure
12:26 PM roycroft: the only issue is building up a set of local macros to make it work efficiently
12:26 PM norias: what file formats does it do?
12:26 PM roycroft: that requires a lot of up front work
12:26 PM unterhaus: openscad reminded me of the old days of cad/fem where you input with numbers
12:26 PM roycroft: that's exactly what it is
12:27 PM roycroft: you write a program to create the drawing
12:27 PM norias: oh, it's CSG
12:27 PM unterhaus: drawing a line with numbers is somewhat inefficient
12:28 PM norias: STL and OFF file formats
12:28 PM norias: what is OFF?
12:28 PM unterhaus: people complain about the ability to output a 2d drawing
12:28 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus: to say the least
12:29 PM unterhaus: fusion was too good to be true, but I think AD is going to be surprised to see their $ drop like a rock
12:29 PM norias: what's that other cloud one?
12:29 PM unterhaus: they definitely set back open source for 7 years
12:29 PM roycroft: it's not inefficient if you're drawing complex shapes and have pre-written macros to generate them
12:29 PM norias: unterhaus: maybe that was the idea....
12:30 PM unterhaus: of course it was the idea
12:30 PM CaptHindsight: vs having pre modelled 3d models :)
12:30 PM unterhaus: 3d parametric cad isn't easy, but it's not beyond the capability of the OSS community either
12:30 PM norias: unterhaus: then why hasn't it happened?
12:30 PM CaptHindsight: freecad almost works from what i see
12:31 PM unterhaus: why hasn't what happened?
12:31 PM norias: i mean, realistically, even the solidworks of the world aren't writing their own 3d geometry kernel
12:31 PM unterhaus: they aren't?
12:31 PM norias: no
12:31 PM norias: it's licensed
12:32 PM norias: same with most CAM toolpathing
12:32 PM roycroft: freecad works
12:33 PM roycroft: it's still lacking many features, but there's enough there for one to generate fairly complex drawings
12:33 PM norias: usefully so, though?
12:33 PM roycroft: my biggest issue with it is all the different workbenches
12:33 PM roycroft: that's not terribly different to some of the toolkits for the commercial products, except they're not nearly as well integrated as with the commercial products
12:34 PM unterhaus: I'll have to try freecad. For some reason fusion ran poorly on this computer. SW was great, so AD is doing something weird
12:34 PM roycroft: and it still doesn't have an "official" assembly workbench that one can rely on for subsequent releases
12:35 PM roycroft: if you pick the one that works best today, you may have to switch to a different one later on
12:35 PM roycroft: which really sucks
12:35 PM unterhaus: I was tempted when they offered me a license for fusion for $300/yr
12:35 PM roycroft: all your individual parts drawings will be forward-compatible, but you might have to recreate all your assemblies going forward
12:35 PM roycroft: which makes freecad very very expensive
12:35 PM unterhaus: yeah, that would be annoying
12:36 PM roycroft: that is my single biggest issue with it
12:36 PM unterhaus: I never did figure out how to do assemblies in fusion. It likes to take separate parts and fuse them
12:36 PM roycroft: it's weird
12:36 PM roycroft: but i can deal with weird, if i know that i'll be rewarded in the end
12:36 PM roycroft: i never used fusion 360 much
12:37 PM roycroft: i got a hobbyist license, installed it
12:37 PM unterhaus: having free programmer support can wind up with things like that happening a lot. Sorta like programming lanugages
12:37 PM roycroft: found the calling home thing and the autodesk get to own all your files thing extremely offensive
12:37 PM roycroft: found no real advantages over solidworks other than the built-in cam software
12:37 PM roycroft: and days after i got the hobbyist license autodesk sales started calling me and trying to convince me to give them money
12:37 PM unterhaus: I didn't mind the calling home thing, but flashing up a message that it couldn't connect was annoying
12:38 PM roycroft: i found that, too, extremely offensive
12:38 PM unterhaus: they never called me, for which I'm thankful
12:38 PM unterhaus: I wouldn't answer anyway
12:38 PM norias: there's always BRL-CAD!
12:38 PM norias: lol
12:38 PM roycroft: i am often in places without internet access at all, and often in places with only cellular data
12:39 PM roycroft: i don't do call home software
12:39 PM unterhaus: fusion will work without a connection
12:39 PM roycroft: it just doesn't work fro me
12:39 PM roycroft: for
12:39 PM roycroft: fusion works for a while without a connection
12:39 PM unterhaus: it's quite a while, isn't it?
12:40 PM unterhaus: weeks?
12:40 PM unterhaus: I just got another email from adobe, they are a bit pathetic about begging for money
12:41 PM unterhaus: probably hurting from all the people moving away from photoshop
12:47 PM Tom_L: can't blame them for moving really
12:50 PM roycroft: yeah, rentalware isn't working out for them as well as they hoped
12:50 PM unterhaus: paint3d from microsoft is pretty amazing
12:50 PM roycroft: i still like the adobe creative suite/cloud/whatever software a lot
12:50 PM roycroft: and i don't mind paying for it
12:51 PM roycroft: but when they moved from permanent license to annual licenss i stopped upgrading
12:51 PM roycroft: gimp/inkscape work pretty well these days
12:51 PM roycroft: so that's what they did to me
12:51 PM roycroft: they drove me to the open source stuff
12:52 PM roycroft: instead of taking more of my money for upgrades
12:53 PM unterhaus: Inkscape is great. Haven't used gimp enough recently to have an opinion
12:56 PM roycroft: i always did more work with illstrator than photoshop
12:56 PM roycroft: so now i do more with inkscape than gimp
12:57 PM roycroft: my old version of adobe cs (version 4) still runs, but it's 32 bit code, so when i finally upgrade my imac and mbp to catalina that stuff is gone for good
12:57 PM roycroft: actually, i may keep a mojave virtual machine around with the adobe stuff on it
12:59 PM unterhaus: anyone have a recoomendation for a torque wrench up to about 20 n-m
01:01 PM unterhaus: the German ones are really expensive
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.lowes.com/pd/CRAFTSMAN-3-8-in-Drive-Digital-Torque-Wrench-20-ft-lb-to-100-ft-lb/1000772376m
01:08 PM roycroft: my torque wrenches are all craftsman, and they all work fine
01:08 PM CaptHindsight: sorry too big
01:08 PM roycroft: i don't know where to send them for calibration any more though
01:08 PM roycroft: i should find that out
01:09 PM roycroft: my 1/2" one i've had since the '80s, and the last time i had it calibrated (a few years ago) it was spot on - they said they only had to confirm the calibration, not reset it
01:10 PM roycroft: i don't use torque wrenches every day, but probably more often than most folks who aren't mechanics do
01:11 PM beachbumpete1: Thats interesting... I have experience with Solidworks, mastercam, and a few other more inexpensive CAD and CAM packages.
01:11 PM beachbumpete1: We use Fusion360 here now at work making all manner of parts and cut them on the CNC's
01:11 PM beachbumpete1: I find it quite good. Does it have all the toolpath options of Mastercam no
01:12 PM beachbumpete1: but it gets the job done and the 3D toolpaths work great.
01:12 PM roycroft: i don't question the quality of the software, beachbumpete1
01:12 PM roycroft: i don't see any major advantage of fusion 360 over solidworks
01:12 PM roycroft: that's what i said
01:12 PM beachbumpete1: I use it at my home shop as well for all my design and CNC
01:13 PM beachbumpete1: I don't either aside from the drastically reduced price ;)
01:13 PM roycroft: and i don't like autodesk's "we own your files" and "you will call home" "features"
01:13 PM beachbumpete1: Today we actually tried the V carve engraving part of the software for the first time.
01:13 PM beachbumpete1: Worked perfect
01:14 PM beachbumpete1: You can certainly download your files if you want
01:14 PM roycroft: nor the sales calls i started getting from them right after signing up for their hobbyist license
01:14 PM beachbumpete1: Personally I like that I can open fusion360 at home or at work and acces everything without issue
01:14 PM roycroft: i have a gitlab server for that :)
01:14 PM beachbumpete1: I never got any "calls" a few emails here and there
01:14 PM Rab: Sewer rat might taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know
01:15 PM beachbumpete1: Dafuq?
01:15 PM roycroft: and yes, i have to do a push every time if i want to access the files from a different machine
01:15 PM roycroft: but that only takes a minute
01:15 PM roycroft: and is actually a feature - to do the push i have to commit what i've just been doing, and my commit message documents the work i did
01:15 PM roycroft: so it's an easy to force me to document my stuff
01:16 PM roycroft: i don't need most of the collaborative crap that gitlab is all about
01:16 PM beachbumpete1: I also like the animations and joints features
01:16 PM beachbumpete1: making complex moving models is relatively simple once you play with it a bit.
01:16 PM roycroft: i primarily use it because it supports git lfs
01:17 PM beachbumpete1: The built in Mcmaster Carr part import is also nice. I use it all the time to put fasteners into assemblies
01:17 PM beachbumpete1: even if we do not end up buying the part from Mcmaster
01:18 PM Rab: Hmm, I wonder if that means McMaster-Carr has a web API to get their 3D files.
01:18 PM beachbumpete1: I have tried the 3D printer parts of the software and it is decent. The larger parts with high triangle counts the software struggles with.
01:19 PM roycroft: probably not, rab
01:19 PM roycroft: that would be rather expensive for them, as folks would be downloading huge libraries en masse
01:20 PM roycroft: i'm pretty happy that they have all those drawings in the first place
01:20 PM robotustra: Rab, as soon as I know, my friend got some cad files from them when he designed a vacuum chamber
01:20 PM robotustra: I can ask
01:20 PM roycroft: robotustra: anyone can download cad files from mcmcaster in several formats
01:21 PM roycroft: they're accessable right on the website
01:21 PM Rab: ^^
01:21 PM roycroft: but an api would allow one to automate those downloads
01:21 PM robotustra: ah, it's about API, sorry
01:21 PM roycroft: and that would be abused, i guarantee
01:22 PM robotustra: you can make a web crowler
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: how accurate are the 3d models at Mcmaster?
01:22 PM roycroft: if there's a tool built into fusion 360 to do that i'd bet that mcmaster and autodesk have an agreement such that beachbumpete1 can't click a button and download every cad file from mcmcaster
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: free files tend to be worth every penny
01:22 PM roycroft: i've found them to be pretty accurate and useful
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: as long as you check
01:23 PM roycroft: of course
01:23 PM roycroft: but it's not hard to check a drawing of a bolt or a caster
01:24 PM roycroft: it's not like they have cad drawings of nuclear wessels
01:24 PM roycroft: it's pretty simple stuff
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: I've been given crap models by large OEM's
01:24 PM roycroft: sure
01:24 PM roycroft: they don't care
01:24 PM unterhaus: I don't know about a web api, but it's trivial to get 3d cad from mcmaster
01:24 PM roycroft: mcmaster want you to buy all your parts from them
01:24 PM Rab: I have found the PDF drawings to be accurate, overall. Sometimes there are asthetic differences in non-characterized elements, like the curve of a capnut isn't identical.
01:24 PM unterhaus: they are high quality too, not like most companies
01:25 PM roycroft: and having accurate drawings of every part in multiple formats is one of the tools they use to keep people going to their site
01:25 PM Rab: https://www.mcmaster.com/mvA/library/20200110/97135A250_HIGH-STRENGTH%20STEEL%20NYLON-INSERT%20LOCKNUT.STEP
01:26 PM roycroft: mcmaster aren't the cheapest supplier out there
01:27 PM beachbumpete1: I have found the 3D models to be reasonably accurate for what we are doing with them. Basically a bolt, nut, screw, washer, etc here and there inserted into a model. We mostly do wood products so threaded holes in models are not necessary
01:27 PM roycroft: fairly close, but if one shops around one can usually find better pricing than from mcmaster
01:27 PM Rab: I think you have to be logged in for that link to work.
01:27 PM beachbumpete1: Mcmaster is definitely not the cheapest
01:27 PM beachbumpete1: but we typically get the parts the next day and quality is usually pretty good.
01:27 PM roycroft: but they're competetive, and they have so much stuff and their website is by far the best supplier website ever, that i buy from them because it's so much easier than hunting down the best price elsewhere
01:28 PM CaptHindsight: I typically use Mcmaster since they are an hours drive from me for last minute requirements
01:28 PM beachbumpete1: Fusion360 also have another product database for downloading models but it confuses me about how to find anything in it.
01:28 PM roycroft: the nearest mcmaster to here is in reno
01:28 PM roycroft: which is a 10 hour drive
01:29 PM roycroft: but i usually get things from them in 2 days
01:29 PM roycroft: and that's fine
01:29 PM Rab: andypugh detected: https://hackaday.com/2020/09/16/autodesk-announces-major-changes-to-fusion-360-personal-use-license-terms/#comment-6278665
01:29 PM roycroft: i always have at least 2 days worth of other projects in the queue
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: STEP, SAT, and IGES file types can no longer be exported
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: CAM support has been drastically cut back: no more multi-axis milling, probing, automatic tool changes, or rapid feeds,
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: And that, my children, is how you monetize the cloud. Never buy into anything that you can’t keep.
01:34 PM roycroft: clounds are pretty
01:34 PM roycroft: clouds, rather
01:34 PM roycroft: but eventually the rain on you
01:34 PM roycroft: so if you want to play with clouds, be prepared to get soaked in the end
01:34 PM * skunkworks wispers... The cloud is just other peoples computers...
01:35 PM Tom_L: any models i dl i always check and you'd be foolish not to
01:35 PM Rab: And "free" 5-axis CAM retreats into the stygian darkness from whence it came.
01:35 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, shhhh don't tell em
01:36 PM Tom_L: thing i don't like about the cloud is if your connection goes down, so does your software and you can't continue working until it's restored
01:36 PM unterhaus: I don't see any andy pugh on that link
01:36 PM unterhaus: he goes by his name on there
01:37 PM Tom_L: he was asking a similar question here though
01:37 PM unterhaus: okay
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: this was the promise of java in the mid 90's
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: your computer is just a client
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: your ISP hosts it all
01:38 PM unterhaus: sun was always big on thin clients
01:38 PM Tom_L: might be ok for sun et friends but not me
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: now it's the cloud
01:38 PM Rab: unterhaus, he has a distinctive style of writing.
01:38 PM unterhaus: didn't sound like him to me, but okay
01:39 PM Tom_L: he was trying to set up a simulation.
01:40 PM Tom_L: he has an enormous amount of credits
01:40 PM Tom_L: he wanted to know which account he was on
01:40 PM Tom_L: same
01:41 PM Tom_L: he wanted to be sure what account he was using so he didn't use his employer's instead of his
01:41 PM Tom_L: quite a few similarities
01:49 PM beachbumpete1: CaptHindsight: are you talking about fusion360?
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: beachbumpete1: comparing the dream of Java mid 1990's to todays Cloud
02:34 PM roycroft: java was ada done even worse :)
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: they couldn't sell it back then since people only had dialup and maybe DSL
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: now you have faster internet but the idea still stinks
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: but they are getting people used to it
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: pay as you go everything
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: and at the same time drastically reducing the customer base by reducing the number of people that can afford it
02:42 PM robotustra: are you about licencing?
02:43 PM robotustra: I would like to have free cad/cam for everyone with no licence
02:43 PM robotustra: license*
02:44 PM robotustra: but it's like a "spherical cow in the vacuume" - does not exist
02:45 PM roycroft: or you can use freecad, which is quite usable, and has some cam capabilities
02:45 PM roycroft: it does have a license though
02:46 PM roycroft: there is virtually no "public domain" software
02:46 PM roycroft: but there are many software licenses that are not restrictive
02:46 PM roycroft: unfortunately, the gpl is highly restrictive
02:46 PM roycroft: but bsd type licenses are pretty decent
02:46 PM robotustra: freecad is hardly usable
02:47 PM roycroft: an awful lot of people would disagree with you on that
02:47 PM robotustra: I mean after t-flex it's hardly usable
02:48 PM roycroft: i'd say that a half million dollar kickstarter to fund freecad development/refinement would go a long way towards making it a lot easier to use
02:48 PM roycroft: along with some corporate sponsorship
02:48 PM robotustra: it's like with linux: "linuxoinds never eat something sweater than carrot"
02:49 PM robotustra: the same applies to freecad, to make it user friendly
02:49 PM Rab: Who are you quoting, and what does it mean?
02:50 PM robotustra: it means that for linux users it was ok to fix their problems on they own, from consol instead of nice and clean gui :)
02:50 PM Tom_L: corporate would ruin it
02:51 PM roycroft: it depends on how it's done, tom_l
02:51 PM Tom_L: they would expect a return of some kind
02:51 PM roycroft: some corporate sponsorship consists of just giving employees paid work time to do development for the project
02:51 PM roycroft: with no strings attached
02:51 PM robotustra: Rab, like linux users are unpretentious
02:52 PM robotustra: roycroft, did you hear about Red Hat?
02:52 PM roycroft: but getting good corporate sponsors can be difficult
02:52 PM roycroft: what about red hat?
02:52 PM roycroft: the kickstarter could be done easily
02:52 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest352
02:52 PM roycroft: and i don't think it would be hard to get that kind of money
02:53 PM roycroft: i'd chip in $50 without thinking twice
02:53 PM robotustra: red heat did a lot of "free" development of linux
02:53 PM roycroft: yes, they did
02:53 PM roycroft: and they still do
02:54 PM robotustra: so, the pro did linux, and after that ibm got them
02:54 PM roycroft: they put a lot of resources in to the base code, which is centos
02:54 PM robotustra: so the corporation got them and their work too
02:54 PM roycroft: and they put a lot of resources into their own proprietary stuff - gui and administrative, mostly
02:54 PM roycroft: and have built a nice business on that model
02:55 PM robotustra: the same is apleacable to freecad and corporation sponsorship
02:55 PM roycroft: tom_l: i really don't know much of anything about the history of freecad
02:55 PM robotustra: finally you'll get yet another licensed cad/cam
02:55 PM roycroft: i know it's been around for quite a long time
02:56 PM roycroft: and i know that development is spotty and mostly stagnant
02:56 PM roycroft: but i don't know why
02:56 PM roycroft: i have no idea
02:56 PM roycroft: it's a bit frustrating, because freecad is very close to being a really nice bit of code
02:56 PM robotustra: because to make cad is not so easy
02:56 PM roycroft: but it's been very close for a very long time
02:56 PM roycroft: i don't know if the developers are burned out
02:56 PM roycroft: or what
02:57 PM roycroft: but an injection of a pile of cash could really put it over the top fairly quickly
02:57 PM roycroft: it could be that the developers just fundamentally dislike the idea of being paid to write code
02:57 PM roycroft: again, i have no idea
02:57 PM roycroft: that's just baseless speculation on my part
02:58 PM robotustra: "nice bit of code" - is the code which run fast and smooth - and I can't say the same about freecad
02:58 PM robotustra: first of all you can't just build it from sources on any linux
02:58 PM roycroft: i just see some stuff that is almost there, but needs a bit more functionality and a lot of spit and polish
02:58 PM robotustra: becasue of dependencies
02:58 PM roycroft: and nobody seems to be doing anything about it
02:59 PM robotustra: roycroft, or not it becasue it doesn't worth to be finished?
02:59 PM * roycroft would bet that 90+% of freecad users are running it on windows or macos
02:59 PM robotustra: what?
03:00 PM robotustra: I don't know about statistics
03:00 PM roycroft: i don't have any statistics about it
03:00 PM robotustra: it's just your rants?
03:00 PM roycroft: but it's probably a good guess, because 90+% of all computer users run windows or mac os
03:01 PM roycroft: i don't see how anything i've said about freecad can be construed as a 'rant'
03:01 PM roycroft: my discussion of clouds, mayhap :)
03:01 PM robotustra: I mean your "statistics"
03:01 PM roycroft: i never stated any statistic
03:01 PM robotustra: well, have to come back to my lathe build
03:01 PM roycroft: i speculated
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: English as a second language strikes again
03:03 PM robotustra: CaptHindsight, are you about mine Ingrish?
03:03 PM roycroft: capthindsight: i try to keep that in mind
03:04 PM roycroft: and it's not so much the understanding of the language that can be at issue
03:04 PM roycroft: it's the cultural differences that color perceptions and interpretations of language
03:04 PM gloops: last time i looked at the facebook page they seemed to be doing som more advanced stuff with freecad, no new releases though
03:05 PM roycroft: gloops: it's crawling forward
03:06 PM robotustra: ah, I recollect why I dismissed freecad. I wanted to do some development on it, but was not able to build it on debian becasue of dependencies. And I didn't want to install ubuntu
03:06 PM roycroft: and i still maintain that the biggest single problem with freecad is that nobody wants to pick an assembly workbench to be part of the official distribution, and commit to supporting that workbench going forward
03:06 PM * roycroft runs the os that best runs his apps, and does not pick apps based on their os
03:06 PM roycroft: operating systems are not tools
03:06 PM roycroft: they are overhead
03:06 PM robotustra: develpment man
03:06 PM roycroft: they are irrelevant
03:06 PM robotustra: not run
03:07 PM roycroft: apps are tools
03:07 PM robotustra: what do you know about application devlopment?
03:07 PM roycroft: if you wanted to do development and could not do so becasue of some debian dependencies, then perhaps you should have worked on porting it to debian
03:08 PM robotustra: roycroft, or write own cad..
03:08 PM robotustra: with no distro dependencies
03:09 PM roycroft: if that's what you want to do, go for it
03:09 PM roycroft: have a great time
03:09 PM roycroft: let us know when it's ready for production use
03:09 PM roycroft: and if it's good, many of us will be happy to use it
03:10 PM gloops: freecad v.18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob8ROzhOxVg&feature=youtu.be trailer
03:10 PM robotustra: roycroft, that's it
03:11 PM robotustra: it will be free for everyone except you
03:11 PM robotustra: for known reasons
03:12 PM gloops: Ichsguckslive was working on adaptive milling cam for freecad...allegedly, but didnt complete it
03:12 PM gloops: well it kinda ran but too buggy, they pulled it
03:15 PM roycroft: because you're a jerk who doesn't like getting called out for being a jerk?
03:16 PM roycroft: you are sounding a lot like our president when you say stuff like that
03:17 PM roycroft: but i promise, if your software is really good i'll flood you with accolades and beg you to find me worthy of using your superior software
03:18 PM roycroft: freecad 0.18 does not run on mac os - it crashes consistently
03:18 PM roycroft: i'm running a 0.19 pre-release version
03:18 PM roycroft: and it's a lot more stable than 0.18
03:19 PM roycroft: 0.19.22284 is what i currently have installed
03:20 PM roycroft: and it has that horrible, restrictive gpl attached to it
03:20 PM gloops: last i used was .17
03:20 PM roycroft: but since i'm not doing development on it i don't let that be a disqualifier
03:24 PM roycroft: 0.17 runs on mac os, but the whole assembly workbench thing is a much bigger mess there
03:25 PM roycroft: i'd prefer a stable 0.18 that runs on mac os, but since that's not to be, i'm ok with the bleeding edge 0.19 version
03:25 PM roycroft: i'm normally not one to run pre-release versions, because i'm no longer interested in software from a development perspective - i just need tools that work these days
03:26 PM roycroft: and that usually means the stable release
03:27 PM Deejay: gn8
03:56 PM FinboySlick: I still wish there was an option to remove edges on tangent surfaces with freecad/OpenCASCADE
03:56 PM FinboySlick: It's a pet peeve.
04:03 PM Tom_L: fix it
04:03 PM robotustra: aha
04:04 PM robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8K90hX4PrE
05:08 PM mag is now known as Guest95529
05:15 PM XXCoder: jymmmm: forgot what i suggested for hvac?
05:40 PM andypugh: Rab, yes, that’s me. I have answered the conundrum, my autodesk ID (which is a name, not an email address) has become linked to my employers account.
05:41 PM andypugh: So the suggestion to look at “products and services” doesn’t really help. It looks like I can have _every_ Autodesk product to download.
05:42 PM andypugh: So, on one level, Autodesk suck. But on another level I don’t care because my account is a subscription account already.
05:42 PM andypugh: But I will stop reccomending it.
05:43 PM andypugh: Or maybe I won’t, because the CAM really is very good.
06:18 PM unterhaus: apparently there was a deal for multi-year fusion license at a pretty good price in the past
06:18 PM unterhaus: they lowered one year down to $300 again
06:19 PM zipper is now known as Guest35928
07:15 PM zipper is now known as Guest19400
07:33 PM unreal is now known as Guest63567
07:39 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:00 PM roycroft: yay! i finished the other dovetail!
08:00 PM roycroft: and the second one only took 2 hours and 15 minutes
08:00 PM roycroft: because i drilled out most of the waste on that one
08:01 PM roycroft: i should be able to complete the assembly of my bench top tomorrow
08:03 PM Rab: roycroft, ever worked with cam lock furniture connectors like this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BIXRODS
08:04 PM Rab: I wonder if there is a 'high quality' version. The ones from e.g. Ikea seem to be made from cast zinc, and crumble at the slightest touch.
08:05 PM Rab: It's for a new piece of furniture, it doesn't have to be interchangeable with the regular stuff.
08:08 PM Rab: Hmm: https://www.twifasteners.com/product/furniture-cam-lock-cl02/
08:10 PM robotustra: how to remove some residual rust on a spindle?
08:11 PM robotustra: small spots
08:11 PM robotustra: is there any good rust remover?
08:11 PM Rab: robotustra, Evaporust is great, but the part has to be immersed in it.
08:13 PM robotustra: Rab, thanks, I'll try
08:13 PM robotustra: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/evapo-rust-rust-remover-1-l-0477902p.html
08:13 PM Rab: If my mill picks up rust, I rub the spot with a hand towel and some light oil.
08:14 PM robotustra: I bought old spindle, but as soon as I understand it was not in use for some time, minor rust
08:15 PM Rab: That's the stuff. Follow the directions, it's water-based and if you wash it off you need to oil right away before the part flash rusts.
08:15 PM Rab: A milling spindle?
08:15 PM robotustra: lathe spindle
08:15 PM Rab: ahh'
08:15 PM robotustra: south band 10" lathe spindle
08:16 PM Rab: huh
08:16 PM Rab: Roller or plain bearing?
08:16 PM robotustra: I bought 4 jaw chuck long time ago with the back plate with 2-1/4" 8 tpi threads on it
08:17 PM robotustra: this one has plain bearings, but I ordered bushings to adapt to tapered bearings
08:18 PM robotustra: the spindle OD are 2-1/4" and 2", mine ID of bearings are 2.5"
08:18 PM robotustra: the plan is to use this spindle as is, and just in case just replace it with new one
08:19 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:20 PM robotustra: and I solved the biggest problem I had - I has a precision tube of 2.5" and I planned to use it as a spindle, but I had no idea how to attach backplate to it :)
08:20 PM robotustra: now I have two screw-on backplates for this spindle
08:20 PM robotustra: 6" and 5"
08:21 PM robotustra: and I'm all set
08:22 PM robotustra: may be later I'll add some collets for smaller diameters. I decided to use "standard" parts which could be foung on a market
08:38 PM roycroft: one should be careful about one's wishes
08:38 PM roycroft: the rain is finally arriving
08:38 PM roycroft: and now there are flash flood warnings in the mountains and foothills
09:34 PM zipper is now known as Guest80752
11:17 PM veegee: What's "portapower" (related to hydraulics)?
11:17 PM veegee: Is it a brand name? Specific product name?
11:18 PM veegee: When I search it, I get results from multiple manufacturers for a kit containing a hand-operated hydraulic pump and a hydraulic cylinder