#linuxcnc Logs
Sep 07 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM skunkworks: amazing what you can do with an exacto knife and scissors.
12:06 AM roycroft: i need better precision than that for my application
12:07 AM leorat: roycroft, might be worth asking about the cricut in #inkscape, ive seen a few ppl mention they use inkscape for their cricut there occasionally, bit quiet at times in there though
12:17 AM CaptHindsight: i thought everyone in here at least had a CNC router
12:26 AM roycroft: thanks, leorat, i'll drop in there some time during the day and ask
12:31 AM roycroft: hmm, i can get one from the amazon warehouse for $350
12:31 AM roycroft: that's even better, assuming that it works
12:35 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: does it do rigid as well as roll to roll?
12:35 AM CaptHindsight: what is the XY in inches?
12:39 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZxbqvfZTj0 had to watch the video to see what it is
12:48 AM roycroft: the one i would consider does stuff 12" wide by up to 24" long
12:49 AM roycroft: but i'm reading that it only works with the bundled software, and the bundled software requires an internet connection at all times, so that mother can "bless" every job before permitted it to be submitted to her cricut child
12:49 AM roycroft: if that's the case then it does not work
12:49 AM roycroft: i would consider it broken by design
12:50 AM XXCoder: what can prevent it from sending your properity designs up to mothership
12:50 AM roycroft: if folks have found a way to talk to it without using the bundled software i'd be inteerested
12:51 AM roycroft: from what i read, it's actually required that it does send them
12:51 AM roycroft: that's how they get blessed
12:51 AM XXCoder: jeez
12:51 AM roycroft: mother cricut looks at each job and decides whether the job is worthy of being submitted to her child
12:52 AM XXCoder: man in the middle attack it
12:52 AM XXCoder: see if you can replay approval
12:52 AM XXCoder: do 2 jobs precisely a hour apart see if you can find if it has timestamp
12:54 AM roycroft: if the inkscape folks have figured out how to talk to it then i don't need the bundled software
12:54 AM XXCoder: yeah
12:54 AM XXCoder: if nothing else you could rip out control board and use cnc stuff
12:55 AM roycroft: yes, but a major selling factor for me is that i could get a box in the mail, open it, plug the thing in, and start making stuff
12:56 AM veegee: https://www.nyelubricants.com/need-to-know-grease-consistency
12:56 AM veegee: NLGI 6 as hard as cheddar cheese?
12:56 AM veegee: what is it used for?
12:58 AM veegee: well if it's one thing I've learned, it's that very little grease is actually needed
12:58 AM veegee: most of it sticks to non-moving parts when the moving parts fling it off
12:59 AM veegee: actual grease in contact with critical parts is like 1% of what you actually inject with a grease gun
12:59 AM veegee: for bearings and gears anyway
01:04 AM CaptHindsight: replace clicet controller with LCNC
01:04 AM XXCoder: ultimately id not buy it if it requires internet access
01:05 AM CaptHindsight: clicet/cricut
01:05 AM CaptHindsight: it's an XY plotter, should take less than a few hours to convert to LCNC
01:08 AM veegee: Your mom should take less than a few hours to convert to LCNC
01:08 AM veegee: I be she was using MACH
01:09 AM Deejay: moin
01:10 AM CaptHindsight: $135 https://www.ebay.com/itm/XY-Plotter-Kit-DIY-XY-Plotter-2-Axis-XY-Plotter-Robot-Kit-Engraving-Machine/184280129317
01:11 AM CaptHindsight: veegee: my mom is a box of dust you souless doo doo face
01:11 AM veegee: :(
01:12 AM veegee: I have this IR air angle grinder: https://www.amazon.ca/Ingersoll-3445MAX-2-Inch-Angle-Grinder/dp/B00381TFV8
01:13 AM veegee: It's leaking air through the valve
01:13 AM veegee: that's not normal, is it?
01:13 AM veegee: Also I'm going to swap it for the 5" version because there seems to be no difference other than handling a larger size wheel
03:32 AM Loetmichel: MUHAHA... Boss just came by:"Do you know where to get a replacement Letterbox lock? i had to destroy ours saturday because i lost the key. Found it just after breaking the box open..." $me:"at every home improvement shop... but why did you destroy it? I could have picked that in less than 10 secs, they are not really hard to open without a key at all..." His face: priceless ;)
03:32 AM XXCoder: doh
03:32 AM XXCoder: funny because we replaced mailbox today
03:32 AM XXCoder: had to since we remoevd all of fence around our home
03:33 AM XXCoder: so no place for mailbox, and its 80 years old one
03:33 AM XXCoder: so need a new one
03:34 AM XXCoder: fence is probably same age. it was pretty worn for galivized metal fence. very rusty
03:34 AM Loetmichel: every now and then lockpicking is a useful skill.. ;)
03:35 AM XXCoder: i bet. i dont have it though. no patence
03:38 AM Loetmichel: for a standard mailbox lock you dont need patience
03:38 AM Loetmichel: they open willingly if you look at them sharp with a lockpic and a tensioner, even a screwdriver and a piece of steel wire will do in a pinch
03:38 AM XXCoder: lol
04:12 AM Tom_L: morning
04:50 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:50 AM XXCoder: morning
08:04 AM JT-Cave: I wonder if they are working on rpi-5.4.y-rt over at https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/tree/rpi-5.4.y
08:20 AM unterhaus_: I swear there is a magnet for fingernail clippings in my keyboard
08:25 AM skunkworks: eww
09:08 AM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
09:29 AM JT-Shop: hmm I need to probe the inside of a squarish object and get a map of coordinates to cut a holder for it... I wonder if gridprobe.ngc can help
09:29 AM JT-Shop: geez how much I hate the damn examples are freaking symlinks... what a pain in the ass
09:41 AM roycroft: jt - i'll be installing my bench top today
09:47 AM roycroft: i have some newer pictures
09:47 AM roycroft: roycroft.us/Bench
09:47 AM roycroft: the Tail-Vise* and End-Cap* pics are new
10:01 AM JT-Shop: cool
10:02 AM roycroft: yes, it's coming along nicely
10:02 AM roycroft: i'm near my low end time estimate for the project though - 200 hours
10:02 AM roycroft: i'm at ~192 hours now, so i may reach that by today
10:03 AM roycroft: but my high estimate is 250 hours, and i'm hoping i have more like 20-30 hours to go
10:03 AM roycroft: so if things don't go terribly wrong i should complete it within the estimate window
10:05 AM JT-Shop: https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/devilishly-clever-foot/ Christopher Schwarz
10:05 AM JT-Shop: it's looking real nice like a fine art
10:05 AM JT-Shop: going to start collecting wood for the bench top
10:10 AM roycroft: yesterday a chunk of metal fell onto one of the shelf slats, putting a dent in it
10:10 AM roycroft: so i don't have to worry about that any more
10:11 AM roycroft: chris has talked about a doe's foot before
10:11 AM roycroft: i don't plan on setting the bench up for a holdfast at first, but i do plan on getting one before too long
10:12 AM roycroft: i'll need to work with it for a bit, and then decide where best to place some holdfast holes
10:12 AM roycroft: when i do get one i'll probably get it from crucible tools - the tool division of lost art press (chris schwarz' publishing company)
10:13 AM unterhaus_: it looks like I can't sell my annunciator panel from an F111 on ebay
10:13 AM roycroft: because it's a weapon of mass profit?
10:13 AM unterhaus_: their policy says no military aircraft or parts
10:14 AM roycroft: list it as from a plane made for the private, non-military use of an arab sheik
10:15 AM unterhaus_: the military sells entire cockpits from these planes to people, I assume it's okay to sell a batch of warning lights
10:15 AM roycroft: the rationale is probably that the military knows what it deems safe to sell to the public, but random ebay sellers do not
10:15 AM roycroft: safe from a national security point of view, not a physical safety point of view
10:16 AM unterhaus_: wonder if it's worth finding someone else to sell it to
10:16 AM roycroft: list it on etsy as a steampunk panel
10:16 AM unterhaus_: nuclear equipped steam plant
10:18 AM unterhaus_: I always wanted to light it up, but no bulbs and it has a 100 pin connector on the back
10:19 AM unterhaus_: if I was in Canada I could sell it on ebay, they have a whole category
10:21 AM roycroft: so it's not that ebay don't trust you
10:21 AM roycroft: it's that they are tired of dealing with defense department attornies
10:23 AM roycroft: hmm
10:23 AM roycroft: the humidity is about to take a dive
10:24 AM roycroft: it's at 70% right now, and is going to go down to 25% by later on today
10:24 AM roycroft: i'd like to put the bench top on when it's lower, as i'll get a tighter fit that way
10:25 AM roycroft: perhaps i should spend a couple hours giving the shop a nice tidy before i get back to working on the bench proper
10:25 AM unterhaus_: people sell them, even with "military" in the auction title
10:25 AM unterhaus_: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Military-A-6-Grumman-Intruder-aviation-Warning-Panel-Annunciator-Navy/324252948272?hash=item4b7efb5730:g:2zsAAOSwqQpeu2E2
10:26 AM roycroft: sadly, along with the drop in humidity we'll be having strong winds, and we're under a red flag warning until wednesday night
10:26 AM unterhaus_: are you somewhere it's going to be cold?
10:26 AM roycroft: a couple major fires near me have just been contained
10:26 AM roycroft: it does not get cold here
10:26 AM roycroft: it gets cool in the winter
10:27 AM unterhaus_: colorado is going to go from too hot to very cold
10:27 AM roycroft: yes
10:27 AM roycroft: we're having record heat
10:27 AM roycroft: colorado is getting snow
10:28 AM roycroft: anyway, i'm wondering if those fires are going to spread again, with the high winds
10:28 AM roycroft: one of them - almost due west of here, near the coast - was just 100% contained yesterday, after over a week of battling it
10:29 AM roycroft: sustained 30km/h winds by this afternoon :(
10:46 AM jymmmm: We have a blackout tenative to start around 9pm today thru Wendesday 7am, due to wildfire hazards.
10:49 AM jymmmm: I already changed the oil on the generator, and pre-filled 3 bottles pre-measured with 20 oz each to make 5am oil changes much simpler.
10:51 AM roycroft: as usual, the nation are talking about the heat wave and wildfires in california, while we're experiencing them just as much, but with no mention
10:52 AM roycroft: we won't be having the blackouts though
10:54 AM * roycroft wants to go out to the shop, but his ipod is not quite finished filling up yet
11:01 AM unterhaus_: roycroft, where you at?
11:11 AM jymmmm: PG&E (the electric company) called 3 times and emailed twice so far. So it looks like it's gonna happen unless the weather changes
11:14 AM * Loetmichel should REALLY get a new exhaust for his convertible... driving home i noticed that the litte 4cyl 2.0liter sounds like a redneck 5.7 V8 :-)
11:14 AM Tom_L: just put a fart can on it
11:14 AM Loetmichel: fart can?
11:15 AM Tom_L: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fartcan
11:16 AM unterhaus_: I feel like people should know better than to go hiking in 120F degrees
11:17 AM Tom_L: jymmmm, get out there and do your rain dance
11:17 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: too humid to dance
11:18 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: HAve you come across any high amperage charger/ circuits?
11:18 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel, surely that's not an "only in merica" thing
11:19 AM Tom_L: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51H2iBZDasL.jpg
11:21 AM jymmmm: Those monza tips are annoying to listen to
11:21 AM Tom_L: yeah i know
11:22 AM Tom_L: rather typical on kids beater cars
11:23 AM jymmmm: Yeah, especially the asian car mods
11:23 AM Tom_L: typically slammed so far to the ground they can't clear a crack in the road
11:24 AM jymmmm: That's what air bags are for
11:31 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: ah. "tuning exhaust"
11:31 AM Loetmichel: nah, i like my cars to be original
11:35 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: largest charger i have can do about 60A at ~30V
11:37 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: OH, what is it?
11:38 AM Loetmichel: built it a long time ago for charging truck batteries
11:38 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Oh, so not for LiPo/LiFe batteries?
11:39 AM Loetmichel: just a big transformer with an even bigger rectifier and a contactor that can switch it off once the voltage climbs to more than 29V
11:39 AM Loetmichel: nope
11:39 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Gotcha, what are you using to cutoff the charger at 29V ?
11:40 AM Loetmichel: lead acid batteries. 28.8V is end of charge
11:40 AM Loetmichel: for a truck battery
11:41 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Sorry, I mean what circuit are you using for the cutoff ?
11:41 AM Loetmichel: i dont have any li** battery packs that would require more than a standard B6 charger
11:42 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: What's a "B6" charger?
11:42 AM Loetmichel: it was a simple comparator that switched off the contactor at a predefined voltage, could only start again by pressing a button
11:42 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: google Imax B6
11:44 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Ah ok, I thought it was a "type/category" of charger. Do you know if it can be setup to "plug and charge" WITHOUT touching any buttons?
11:46 AM Loetmichel: it caht
11:46 AM Loetmichel: cant
11:46 AM Loetmichel: its meant to be an "universal charnger"
11:46 AM Loetmichel: i meant i never had needs for special chargers for somthing, the universal things work well enough for all my Li** and Ni** batteries
11:47 AM Loetmichel: i even charged a few car batteries with it. because it was at hand
11:47 AM Loetmichel: takes a while though ;)
11:49 AM W1N9Zr0: there's open source firmware for imax b6, you could modify it to auto-start https://github.com/stawel/cheali-charger
11:59 AM jymmmm: W1N9Zr0: thanks for that.
12:04 PM jymmmm: I really need something in the 20-30A range for LiPo/Fe, I thought ones like eBike would be high current but most are not, or they are in the $300 range.
12:35 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200907_121211.jpg
12:35 PM skunkworks: find out if my seals are good enough..
12:53 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: Hi, On the compressor?
12:53 PM jymmmm: or whatever that thing is
12:58 PM robotustra: looks like 2 chamber air complessor
12:59 PM robotustra: what is the max pressure?
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cricut.com/ their business model looks like 100% markup on hardware, material sales 100% and from profits tracking the users
01:33 PM robotustra: can I make AFM in there?
01:33 PM robotustra: an AFM?
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: AFM = atomic force microscope?
01:38 PM robotustra: yes
01:39 PM robotustra: mugs with pictures on its are far beyond of my interest :)
01:41 PM Rab: roycroft, I looked into the Cricut a few years ago, since second-hand models were very cheap (<$100). What I found was that early Cricut software would accept user-defined designs; but Cricut soon changed their software and firmware to limit owners to predigested craft designs which could be purchased from Cricut.
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Rabbit-HX-360N-ArtCut-hobby-machine_60202547138.html
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: just starting to find drag knife plotters on ali, have to figure out the search terms that work best
01:42 PM Rab: Craft users with some technological savvy were trading firmware versions which would accept vector art input, but it was a game of whack-a-mole and the entire business model was repugnant to me, so I ended my investigation.
01:43 PM Rab: Yeah, that's the flip side: drag knife cartridges are quite cheap on eBay/Ali, and you can mount them to your own 3D printer, CNC armature, etc.
01:44 PM Rab: Looks like Cricut have re-enabled user art, through their proprietary web plugin, but that doesn't interest me at all.
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: looks like a few hour conversion to LCNC
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: but it's a toy chassis
01:46 PM Rab: For the Cricut machine? Or that KingRabbit plotter?
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: $135 https://www.ebay.com/itm/XY-Plotter-Kit-DIY-XY-Plotter-2-Axis-XY-Plotter-Robot-Kit-Engraving-Machine/184280129317
01:47 PM miss0r2: 'evening
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: Cricut
01:47 PM miss0r2 is now known as miss0r
01:48 PM Rab: I assume the Cricut is a cheap, highly-integrated thing like a $50 injet printer. Prob not worth it unless you already have one, or find it cheap on craigslist etc.
01:50 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AOhoKC89o8
01:51 PM Rab: This person has found their passion in life, and that passion is Cricut haxing. No mention of LinuxCNC. https://www.youtube.com/user/Idotooby/videos
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: yeah people are just scared of LCNC
01:52 PM Rab: skunkworks, that motor start is awesome.
01:53 PM skunkworks: love that motor... old school.
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: but not of fumbling with marlin for hours on end deciphering the inverse RPN double double negative illogic
01:55 PM skunkworks: quite a bit quieter with new bearings and fixed wrist pin.
02:00 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, 60gal tank?
02:02 PM skunkworks: umm.. I am not sure.. this is a franken-compressor
02:03 PM skunkworks: certainly isnt big
02:06 PM Tom_L: you might have to retorque the headbolts after a couple heat cycles on those paper gaskets
02:08 PM skunkworks: yes. that is the plan
02:08 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200902_210325.jpg
02:08 PM skunkworks: before... should have taken pictures of after
02:09 PM skunkworks: no problem up to 130psi
02:09 PM Tom_L: looks like the butterfly valves were bouncing off the pistons
02:11 PM Tom_L: err maybe that's the backside
02:11 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: that is the head side. bouncing off some casted in stops
02:11 PM Tom_L: i noticed that after i spoke :)
02:12 PM skunkworks: the otherside had a metal spacer that kept the valves from moving too far
02:13 PM skunkworks: required 3 gaskets.. one different from the rest
02:14 PM skunkworks: fun. dont know the brand - could not find a kit
02:18 PM skunkworks: actually - at that rpm it doesnt get that hot.
03:03 PM Deejay: gn8
07:23 PM roycroft: my bench top and undercarriage are now joined with holy wedges, and no person can put them asunder without destroying both
07:24 PM roycroft: my tail vise is also fully installed, which was not in the plans for today, but complications arose, and it seemed prudent to finish that now
07:25 PM * roycroft will snap some pics shortly, but is now recovering from the work and chilling in his air-conditioned office
07:27 PM skunkworks: currently 54 degf here...
07:27 PM skunkworks: Chilly
07:27 PM robotustra: does anybody cut gears?
07:27 PM Tom_L: gear cutters do
07:27 PM robotustra: or pulleys?
07:27 PM roycroft: many people cut gers
07:27 PM roycroft: gears
07:28 PM robotustra: in here?
07:28 PM roycroft: yes
07:28 PM Tom_L: andypugh does
07:28 PM roycroft: andypugh seems particularly fond of cutting gears
07:28 PM robotustra: what is the price of 37T M1.5 gear?
07:28 PM roycroft: especially with gear hobbing machines
07:28 PM roycroft: ONE MILLION DOLLARS
07:28 PM robotustra: err M1.25
07:28 PM robotustra: seriously
07:29 PM Tom_L: i'm not andy or one that would cut you one
07:30 PM skunkworks: whatever the market will bear?
07:30 PM roycroft: i also doubt you're a gear retailer, tom_l
07:30 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Poseidon-RC-Hardened-Steel-Quantity/dp/B01AB1DE32
07:31 PM Tom_L: that may not be M1.25
07:31 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hardened-Steel-8mm-Shaft-37T-MOD-1-5-M1-5-PINION-GEAR-FG-HPI-Losi-more-/332867413646
07:32 PM robotustra: so, the real answer is - nobody cuts gear in here
07:32 PM Tom_L: andy does
07:32 PM robotustra: do you
07:32 PM robotustra: for sale?
07:32 PM * Tom_L feels like this is ground hog day
07:32 PM robotustra: ok ok
07:32 PM Tom_L: no this isn't a retail sales chat
07:33 PM robotustra: it was just a question
07:33 PM Tom_L: i don't have gear cutters
07:33 PM unterhaus_: I guess andy is taking the night off, he's not on devel either
07:33 PM Tom_L: i'd like to get into it some day
07:33 PM Tom_L: he's here but not here
07:34 PM robotustra: shroudinger cat
07:34 PM unterhaus_: isn't that true of all of us? Except dejay
07:34 PM roycroft: several people here cut gears
07:34 PM robotustra: but not for sale?
07:34 PM roycroft: none have ever done so for other channel members for money, afaik
07:34 PM Tom_L: have you tried stock drive products?
07:34 PM Tom_L: or mc master?
07:34 PM roycroft: that's kind of outwith the scope of the channel
07:35 PM roycroft: even moreso than many of the off topic discussions we have
07:35 PM roycroft: or boston gear?
07:35 PM unterhaus_: I have never seen such a transaction initiated on here
07:35 PM Tom_L: maybe in privage message
07:36 PM roycroft: it seems distasteful
07:36 PM Tom_L: meh
07:36 PM roycroft: in private, no problem
07:36 PM Tom_L: if something starts here it's generall directed there
07:36 PM unterhaus_: I have thought about asking, but probably would go to one of the online shops due to not having to talk to anyone
07:36 PM Tom_L: which seems ok to me
07:37 PM Tom_L: https://www.bostongear.com/-/media/Files/Literature/Brand/boston-gear/catalogs/p-1930-bg-sections/p-1930-bg_spur-gears.ashx
07:38 PM Tom_L: 14.5 or 20 deg pressure angle?
07:39 PM robotustra: g0704 37T helical gear
07:39 PM unterhaus_: where would I look for a 2.8 iso?
07:39 PM Tom_L: https://linuxcnc.org/iso/
07:40 PM robotustra: I find these gears in plastic, but nobody does it in metal
07:40 PM robotustra: I didn't find any
07:41 PM Tom_L: what bore size?
07:41 PM Tom_L: what width?
07:41 PM roycroft: often times gears like that are plastic because they're sacrificial
07:41 PM robotustra: 15 mm ID, 5 mm keyway 10 mm height
07:41 PM roycroft: i.e. they are designed to fail before other, more expensive parts are damaged
07:42 PM robotustra: there are 2 sacrificial gears in the g0704
07:42 PM robotustra: why?
07:42 PM roycroft: i'm not familiar with the design of that machine
07:43 PM robotustra: it's stupid I must say
07:43 PM roycroft: i know what it is
07:43 PM roycroft: but if you are destroying that gear you should probably try to determine why
07:43 PM robotustra: I didn't
07:43 PM roycroft: because many many thousands of those machines have been sold
07:43 PM robotustra: I want to replace all my gers to metal ones
07:43 PM roycroft: and if that gear was failing grizzly would have modified the design
07:44 PM jdh: plastic ones are quieter
07:44 PM jdh: if you are worried about them, switch to a belt drive
07:44 PM robotustra: what about aluminium one?
07:44 PM robotustra: I want to have gearbox
07:44 PM roycroft: if it were me i'd just buy a spare or two
07:44 PM roycroft: and keep them in stock
07:44 PM robotustra: I did
07:45 PM roycroft: instead of sourcing a non-spec gear that is made of a different material
07:45 PM robotustra: I got one metal, but 37T does not exist in metal
07:45 PM robotustra: I would like to have it in bronze
07:45 PM robotustra: SAE 65
07:46 PM roycroft: that gear is $11 from the grizzly parts store
07:46 PM roycroft: it would probably cost you several hundred dollars for a bespoke one
07:46 PM robotustra: I don't want to pay to grizzly anything
07:46 PM roycroft: buy a dozen spares
07:46 PM roycroft: and you'll be lots of money ahead
07:46 PM robotustra: it's not my way
07:47 PM roycroft: it's ok to buy their machines but not ok to buy spare parts for those machines from grizzly?
07:47 PM robotustra: americans burned 70% of world oil because of this appriach
07:47 PM * roycroft would have to ponder how one would justify that position
07:47 PM robotustra: I need 1 metal gear working forever
07:48 PM robotustra: instead of 10 plastic gears braking once a month
07:48 PM unterhaus_: they only last a month?
07:48 PM roycroft: but you said you hve not had one fail yet
07:48 PM jdh: do you ever hear of them breaking?
07:48 PM roycroft: that this is a proactive move on your part
07:48 PM robotustra: may be 6 month
07:48 PM Tom_L: you also said there are no 37T metal gears around
07:48 PM robotustra: there are some youtube videos
07:48 PM unterhaus_: do they only last 6 months?
07:48 PM robotustra: where people replace them
07:49 PM robotustra: I think they just break them
07:49 PM roycroft: and you'd rather spend a lot of money on a metal gear on the chance it might last longer than a plastic one, but might also risk destroying something much more expensive if the machine should crash?
07:49 PM unterhaus_: do they replace them with metal gears?
07:49 PM robotustra: plastic when heated start to lose strength
07:49 PM robotustra: roycroft, what can be destroyed on a metal machine?
07:49 PM roycroft: do you understand what sacrificial parts are?
07:49 PM robotustra: a fuse?
07:50 PM roycroft: i guess not
07:50 PM robotustra: of cause I know what it is
07:50 PM unterhaus_: drive the machine into the stops and you'll find out
07:50 PM robotustra: manually?
07:50 PM unterhaus_: I suggest under power for more broken parts
07:50 PM roycroft: you've never been in a high school machine shop :)
07:51 PM robotustra: fortunately I skipped it and became a master
07:51 PM unterhaus_: my high school didn't have a machine shop, sadly
07:51 PM robotustra: anyway, I want T37 metal gear, I'm not so stupid to crash 1 hp machine
07:51 PM roycroft: never underestimate the ability of teen-aged testosterone to destroy indestructable things
07:51 PM robotustra: it's impossible to brake g0704 with 1 hp
07:52 PM Tom_L: closest i can find is 38T
07:52 PM robotustra: helical?
07:52 PM roycroft: people generally do not crash their machines intentionally
07:52 PM Tom_L: spur
07:52 PM robotustra: I told you, I spend 2 or 3 days trying to find it
07:52 PM robotustra: I got plastic one from china too
07:52 PM Tom_L: you want a helical gear?
07:52 PM robotustra: yes
07:52 PM unterhaus_: are they people on youtube replacing it with metal gears?
07:53 PM Tom_L: that presents a whole other group of problems
07:53 PM robotustra: no, they replace with plastic, just becase there is no metal ones
07:53 PM Tom_L: what helix angle etc
07:53 PM Tom_L: what pressure angle
07:53 PM * roycroft still wonders what people on youtube are doing to destroy their gears
07:54 PM robotustra: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Milling-Machine-Sacrificial-Drive-Gear-Warco-WM16-Grizzly-G0704-Optimum-BF20/114231114754
07:54 PM robotustra: I don't know, I have to measure
07:54 PM robotustra: it's a nonsense
07:54 PM robotustra: to pay 20$ for a pice of plastic
07:55 PM Tom_L: get one, send it to sdp-si and have them duplicate it in brass
07:55 PM Tom_L: or boston or whoever
07:56 PM robotustra: it's about 10 degree
07:56 PM Tom_L: that's a helical gear?
07:56 PM robotustra: yes
07:56 PM Tom_L: doesn't look like much of a helix
07:56 PM robotustra: yeah
07:58 PM Tom_L: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/390862-cnc.html
07:58 PM Tom_L: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32630042899.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.29.6ec02568ZdpYkB
07:58 PM robotustra: https://imgur.com/a/UOaUMTb
07:59 PM roycroft: it you get it in metal it's not a sacrificial gear any more
07:59 PM robotustra: this one I have in metal yes
07:59 PM Tom_L: not my problem
07:59 PM Tom_L: nor yours really
07:59 PM Tom_L: robotustra, the ali one?
07:59 PM robotustra: this one I have goes to motor shaft
08:00 PM robotustra: I got both gears from ali, this one you show and the one I just posted
08:00 PM robotustra: double gear is metal
08:00 PM Tom_L: ok
08:00 PM Tom_L: no good?
08:00 PM robotustra: decent
08:01 PM robotustra: will work, it's not hardened
08:01 PM Tom_L: and if it's hardened then what?
08:01 PM robotustra: it will wear slowly
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: did the new piston pin work?
08:02 PM skunkworks: so far so good
08:02 PM skunkworks: been though a few cycles//
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: saw the video, can't tell if the knock is better
08:02 PM skunkworks: oh - gone.
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: much quieter, ah good
08:03 PM skunkworks: very - the bearing noise added a rumbling - the rod was the knock
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: low 60-'s already here woohoo
08:03 PM skunkworks: yes - 50's here
08:03 PM jdh: heh, pics of a stock g0704 in that 'zone thread. I forgot what mine looked like with the knobs, motor cover/etc
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: near 40's tonight
08:03 PM Tom_L: crazy weather
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: great work and exercise weather
08:04 PM Tom_L: yeah only if i had parts
08:05 PM Tom_L: T-storms starting mid morning tomorrow
08:06 PM robotustra: well
08:10 PM Tom_L: robotustra, if anyone could have, archivist could have cut you that gear but he's not around now
08:10 PM robotustra: ok
08:10 PM robotustra: anyway I can leave with plastic one
08:10 PM Tom_L: seems like the best option presently
08:11 PM jdh: best option is make a belt drive
08:11 PM Tom_L: that was my choice
08:11 PM robotustra: to make a belt drive - it's not cheap
08:11 PM Tom_L: GT3 if you can find em
08:12 PM robotustra: motor+drive ~=600$
08:12 PM Tom_L: heh that's not bad
08:12 PM robotustra: pilleys + belt += 100$
08:12 PM Tom_L: BLDC aren't cheap
08:12 PM robotustra: I want 1.2kW servo on it
08:12 PM Tom_L: and i'm also aware of that
08:13 PM Tom_L: and i'm getting 1.2kw for mine
08:13 PM Tom_L: and 2 pulley sets
08:13 PM robotustra: but first I have to finish the lathe
08:13 PM jdh: vs. the 350w from the stock motor
08:13 PM Tom_L: jdh, or 180w from a sherline?
08:13 PM robotustra: stock one is 750W
08:13 PM Tom_L: that's what i'm looking at
08:13 PM robotustra: 1 hp
08:13 PM robotustra: or 3/4
08:13 PM jdh: "750"
08:14 PM robotustra: don't remember
08:14 PM jdh: mine says 750. not hardly
08:14 PM robotustra: yeah 1hp
08:15 PM robotustra: 750 is pretty good if you don't do a production volumes
08:16 PM robotustra: machine is quite rigid for 3kW spindle
08:17 PM robotustra: on 750W machine you'll just do the same but 3.5 times slower
08:17 PM jdh: I would bet it is closer to 500 than 750 in real watts
08:18 PM jdh: I've cut 316 with a 3/8" and it was fine (with the stock plastic gears)
08:19 PM robotustra: I was cutting a cast iron in 1/2" and it was fine
08:20 PM robotustra: but still I just don't want remember that I have plastic gears in the mill :)
08:21 PM jdh: I cut the ball screw notch in the saddle with an X2 mill. It also had no problem with the cast iron
08:21 PM roycroft: i shall give up after this final comment
08:21 PM roycroft: but on the day that you destroy that gear and don't destroy anything else you'll be thankful that it's a sacrificial gear
08:21 PM robotustra: once I made a gift to my mom - a mulinex meat grinder, it has been broken in a first run - the plastic gear has failed
08:21 PM roycroft: i do not expect that comment to have any affect
08:22 PM roycroft: but i felt compelled to give it one more go before giving up
08:22 PM * SpeedEvil remembers shear pins.
08:23 PM robotustra: metal gears do not brake suddenly
08:23 PM robotustra: before it happens you'll hear the funny sounds
08:23 PM SpeedEvil: Cast iron does
08:24 PM robotustra: I want bronze SAE65 gears
08:24 PM robotustra: the material is dedicated to gear meking
08:25 PM robotustra: I think that evel aluminium gear will work better than plastic one
08:26 PM robotustra: even*
08:26 PM roycroft: robutustra is making it really hard to not comment further, but i pleged to be done, so i'll zip my lips :)
08:26 PM roycroft: pledged, even
08:26 PM jdh: roycroft: you mean where it is better for the cheap plastic gears to break instead of the expensive parts?
08:26 PM Tom_L: roycroft, just thing wood thoughts :)
08:26 PM robotustra: roycroft, you have some work to do tonight, don't you?
08:26 PM Tom_L: think*
08:27 PM robotustra: let's make than all plastic gears in a car gearboxes, why not?
08:27 PM jdh: torque convertor
08:28 PM roycroft: i'm done with work
08:28 PM roycroft: i'm making dinner, actually
08:28 PM roycroft: and uploading some new pictures
08:29 PM robotustra: through your fast dial-up connection? :)
08:30 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Top-Installed-1.jpeg
08:30 PM roycroft: https://roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Top-Installed-2.jpeg
08:30 PM roycroft: t.us/Bench/Tail-Vise-Installed-1.jpeg
08:30 PM roycroft: t.us/Bench/Tail-Vise-Installed-2.jpeg
08:30 PM roycroft: today's work
08:31 PM robotustra: wedges
08:31 PM roycroft: indeed
08:31 PM robotustra: I wander to know what will be done on this WB
08:33 PM roycroft: that bench will never come apart
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.igus.com/3d-print-material/selective-laser-sintering-material
08:33 PM roycroft: and to whoever here thought that the tenons would break when i installed the wedges, not a chance
08:33 PM roycroft: they bent nicely
08:34 PM CaptHindsight: SLS can make that gear in nylon
08:34 PM roycroft: no breaking or splitting noises
08:35 PM robotustra: I don't beleive in plastic any more
08:35 PM robotustra: plastics are metastable materials, which flows and don't have crystalline structure
08:35 PM * roycroft zips his lips again
08:36 PM robotustra: I trust metals and ceramics only
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.igus.eu/info/3d-print-gears
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: german so you know it's good or used to be good
08:37 PM robotustra: the motor gear I got I think is milled from delring plastic
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://iglidur-gears-expert.igus.tools/configuration?l=en&c=DE
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: iglidur® gear service life calculator
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: did someone say 47 teeth?
08:38 PM Tom_L: 37
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: tooth width in mm?
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: and how much torque?
08:39 PM robotustra: about 900 hours
08:40 PM CaptHindsight: there you go
08:40 PM robotustra: but it's plastic on plastic, no shock
08:40 PM robotustra: thy don't take into account the temperature
08:41 PM CaptHindsight: scroll down, they do!
08:41 PM robotustra: it does not taken into account
08:41 PM CaptHindsight: works for me
08:42 PM robotustra: if the temperature increase to 60 degree the time drops 4 times
08:42 PM robotustra: to 250 hours
08:42 PM robotustra: what I expected
08:43 PM robotustra: from 900
08:43 PM robotustra: surprize
08:43 PM Tom_L: they use plastic on some timing gears in cars
08:43 PM Tom_L: mostly what i've seen are chain sprockets
08:43 PM robotustra: if you 'll mill continuosly on a DC motor it will be warm and the gear will heat from the motor shaft
08:44 PM robotustra: again, I don't believe in plastic gears for long run, I had some bad experience
08:44 PM robotustra: shortly - plastic flows
08:45 PM robotustra: "lose geometry"
08:45 PM Tom_L: jdh, what collet size is on your mill?
08:45 PM * roycroft believes in engineering
08:45 PM jdh: R8
08:49 PM robotustra: I could agree that plastic gears will work queit, but not long
08:50 PM Tom_L: jdh, is yours belt drive?
08:51 PM jdh: nope. I'm cheap
08:52 PM Tom_L: :)
08:52 PM jdh: if you do the belt drive, then you might as well do teh bearing upgrade, then you might as well upgrade the spindle...
08:52 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/old_pulley1.jpg
08:52 PM Tom_L: i had to do something
08:53 PM Tom_L: i was burning those up right and left
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: was pretty small
08:54 PM CaptHindsight: my ancient step pulley BP uses V-belts
08:54 PM Tom_L: so on that i went with GT2 3mm
08:54 PM Tom_L: works great for that motor
08:54 PM robotustra: I didn't find pilley set for VVVV belt
08:54 PM Tom_L: i'm afraid i'll strip the belt with the new motor
08:54 PM robotustra: j6 belt
08:55 PM Tom_L: so i'm going with 5mm GT2
08:55 PM Tom_L: and increasing the width
08:55 PM robotustra: and it's not clear for me how to mount pulley on a grizzly spindle
08:56 PM Tom_L: they don't make VVVV belts small enough for my setup
08:56 PM robotustra: what is the reduction ratio on your drive?
08:56 PM CaptHindsight: looks EMC 3.0 specs are being gathered, will be called MMC
08:57 PM Tom_L: i'm getting 2 pulley sets
08:57 PM robotustra: 1:1?
08:57 PM norias: CaptHindsight: by NIST?
08:57 PM Tom_L: one is 1:1 and the other is a 1:1.2 step up
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: norias: of course not
08:57 PM norias: CaptHindsight: who?
08:57 PM Tom_L: or maybe a bit more, i haven't fully decided
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: who doesn't matter
08:58 PM norias: CaptHindsight: huh?
08:58 PM CaptHindsight: as long as it's not old
08:58 PM robotustra: I don't know what is the high gear at grizzly milling machine, I never go higher 600 rpm
08:58 PM Tom_L: i'm figuring on ~6 - 6.5k rpm
08:59 PM robotustra: what is the power of your spindle?
08:59 PM norias: CaptHindsight: ok, so what does MMC stand for, in this case?
08:59 PM Tom_L: 1.2kw
08:59 PM robotustra: ah ok
09:01 PM robotustra: I think 750W will just stall at 3k rpm or blow the fuse
09:01 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, https://www.nist.gov/publications/nist-rs274ngc-interpreter-version-3
09:01 PM Tom_L: that?
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/message/37103185/
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: MMC - Modern Machine Control
09:03 PM Tom_L: MY Machine Control :)
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: or that yeah
09:06 PM Tom_L: arm
09:06 PM norias: CaptHindsight: interesting. reading.
09:06 PM CaptHindsight: which is currently owned by a japanese investment firm
09:06 PM CaptHindsight: and might be sold to nvidia
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: so ARM might not be future proof
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: might have to be risc-V
09:07 PM norias: i mean, it's a nice wish list, right?
09:07 PM norias: and i could probably come up with my own
09:08 PM Tom_L: wishes are free
09:08 PM norias: like why are we using RS274?
09:08 PM CaptHindsight: sure, who can complain about that list?
09:08 PM norias: When there's step (238 ?)
09:08 PM norias: i.e. step-nc
09:08 PM Tom_L: norias, that's where the project originated
09:08 PM CaptHindsight: post G-code programming
09:08 PM norias: Tom_L: is there anything in the codebase for it?
09:09 PM norias: i haven't poked around
09:09 PM Tom_L: i dunno, i'm not a programmer
09:09 PM norias: ha. fair
09:09 PM Tom_L: i can read it :)
09:09 PM CaptHindsight: from freecad to parts
09:09 PM norias: does freecad say step-nc?
09:09 PM norias: save
09:09 PM norias: i'd be shocked
09:09 PM Tom_L: norias, i've followed it for quite a while though
09:09 PM norias: Tom_L: i'm not doubting you, man, not at all
09:09 PM Tom_L: i didn't take it that you were
09:10 PM CaptHindsight: I'll start a wiki, you can add to it
09:11 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, is he from this croud or the machine kit croud?
09:11 PM norias: https://code.google.com/archive/p/iso-14649-toolkit/
09:11 PM CaptHindsight: how about a unified additive and machining standard?
09:12 PM norias: i feel like that's a big ask
09:12 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: this is to passify the LCNC is obsolete crowd
09:12 PM Tom_L: lots of complaints?
09:13 PM CaptHindsight: maybe by tomorrow
09:13 PM CaptHindsight: same complainers
09:13 PM CaptHindsight: all computer experts
09:14 PM CaptHindsight: no framework, no code, no block diagrams or flowcharts
09:14 PM CaptHindsight: just complaints
09:14 PM norias: it seems like linuxcnc doesn't do step-nc
09:15 PM norias: from what i can see
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: supposedly in their information gathering and complaining stage
09:15 PM norias: however. someone has done it somewhere?
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: first you complain
09:15 PM CaptHindsight: then you gather info
09:16 PM CaptHindsight: then you complain and make derogatory comments about how old the code is
09:17 PM CaptHindsight: then all the developers drop the old project, follow your lead and do your bidding
09:17 PM roycroft: don't forget the complaining part
09:17 PM CaptHindsight: not sure which world they are living in
09:18 PM norias: yeah, i'd like to take another look at the rs274 parser code
09:18 PM roycroft: after all, complaining is the american way!
09:18 PM norias: i bet it could be reworked to do STEP-NC
09:18 PM norias: although, maybe there's a ton more logic that needs to happen behind that
09:18 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: yes, likely more complaining in there that i left out or glossed over
09:18 PM roycroft: we get a head by embracing rugged complaining and blaming
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: and finger pointing
09:19 PM roycroft: to be clear
09:19 PM roycroft: rugged INDIVIDUAL complaining and blaming
09:19 PM roycroft: collective complaining is socialist
09:19 PM roycroft: it might even be french
09:19 PM roycroft: americans complain alone
09:19 PM roycroft: separately but equally
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: like the cheese
09:33 PM unterhaus_: CaptHindsight, are you Bari?
09:34 PM unterhaus_: on the ML? Sounds like you
09:35 PM unterhaus_: o, wait, maybe that email wasn't sarcastic
09:35 PM unterhaus_: "no code over 6 months old" sounded sarcastic to me
09:36 PM roycroft: i am lurky mclurkface on the mailing list
09:36 PM roycroft: in case you're interested
09:36 PM Tom_L: iso 14649 toolkit is 3 axis
09:40 PM Rab: "Automagic updates while you sleep, on or off the machine." Sounds like trollin'
09:40 PM unterhaus_: the end doesn't sound so bad though
09:41 PM unterhaus_: everything on stm32 does sound familiar
09:42 PM Tom_L: machinekit?
09:42 PM roycroft: the wind has definitely picked up
09:42 PM roycroft: and the humidity is down to 25%
09:42 PM roycroft: that's a formula for wild fires
09:42 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
09:43 PM unterhaus_: machinekit really never did much outside of beagleboard
09:43 PM unterhaus_: certainly not stm32 blue pills
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: when does code become "old"?
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: does code really go "out of style"?
10:10 PM skunkworks: cobal?
10:10 PM skunkworks: ;)
10:10 PM unterhaus_: gets old every 6 months, obviously
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: still in use though
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: I just never thought of code being old since it doesn't wear out, only forgotten
10:10 PM XXCoder: it can "wear out" when exploits is found as it ages
10:10 PM XXCoder: otherwise i guess its useful in certain context forever
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: "I'm very important and knowledgeable, I will shame you to refactor your code"
10:11 PM skunkworks: sure - jt does something.
10:12 PM unterhaus_: starting his own thread was ok, I hate it when they start that crap in an interesting thread
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: to be honest it comes across like someone autistic trying to get their way by trolling
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: might be wrong
10:13 PM unterhaus_: he's old, apparently
10:13 PM skunkworks: there was someone on the forum that did a lot of work creating a picture of a new gui. Then got all upset that no one was going to creat it.
10:14 PM unterhaus_: nice
10:14 PM CaptHindsight: we used to gbet people from india asking us to port a BIOS to some new board
10:14 PM CaptHindsight: 6 month project
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: they were just more important than we were and decided that they should tell us what to do
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: was that the same GUI by some "graphic designer"?
10:16 PM skunkworks: iirc - yes
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/35243-widescreen-touch-user-interface-proposal-by-brendaem
10:17 PM skunkworks: yes - that one
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: I thought that she was proposing a GUI for comments and then going to actually build it
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: I've seen discussions on LinkedIn and similar about how they can not comprehend open source
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: why would anyone do anything without getting paid directly
10:21 PM unterhaus_: I've heard from computer science majors that if you want to be hired for a decent job you have to show your contributions to an OSS project
10:22 PM unterhaus_: The people that have gotten really enthused about significantly changing lcnc have all burned out.
10:23 PM unterhaus_: The "I am not a programmer" people just don't see the amount of work that's done all the time on this "old" software
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: didn't someone mention asking Autodesk about supporting Linux and the Autodesk people freaking out
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: since they think that anything that touches Linus has to be free and open source
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: Linus/linux
10:24 PM unterhaus_: that can't be true any more, since they have acrobat on linux
10:25 PM Tom_L: how much linux software do you see that runs off the cloud?
10:25 PM Tom_L: i'm afraid that also would be frowned on
10:26 PM Tom_L: and that's where most windows software is going
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: now that they have run fusion360 for a few years they must have an idea of what users do with the free version
10:28 PM unterhaus_: fusion must just be a browser extension
10:28 PM unterhaus_: too bad it can't remember your password
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: $495 /year
10:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview
10:30 PM unterhaus_: you can still get it free
10:30 PM Tom_L: for a while
10:30 PM unterhaus_: they took out file interchange with solidworks though
10:30 PM CaptHindsight: thats not bad if you can save all your work locally and have it work with older versions
10:31 PM Tom_L: will it import iges?
10:31 PM unterhaus_: they were trying to get everyone to sign up for $300/yr when they changed it
10:31 PM CaptHindsight: but they treat it like a time period don't they, you can use it for 365 days and then it's OFF
10:31 PM unterhaus_: I think it will import iges
10:31 PM unterhaus_: yes, have to re-up every year
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: $40/month if you actually use it isn't bad
10:32 PM unterhaus_: kinda wish I could afford solitworks
10:32 PM roycroft: i'm trying to find the time to learn freecad enough to make it useful
10:33 PM roycroft: my solidworks license is really old and i'm not going to upgrade it
10:33 PM unterhaus_: fusion doesn't run well on this computer, solidworks does
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: is freecad actually finctional?
10:33 PM roycroft: folks seem to do useful stuff with it
10:34 PM Tom_L: to update mine is $7800 first year, 320 after that
10:34 PM CaptHindsight: i can sit down with NX, Catia, SW and Creo and start modelling
10:34 PM roycroft: there are lots of nice features that seem to be lacking, like bom/cutsheet generation, 2d drawing generation
10:34 PM Tom_L: i'm more familiar with catia but can do sw ok
10:34 PM roycroft: assemblies are a mess
10:34 PM unterhaus_: the students love fusion
10:34 PM CaptHindsight: I tried freecad a few times and the buttons don't seem to work
10:34 PM Tom_L: catia handles assemblies better
10:35 PM roycroft: fusion 360 is only free for personal/hobby use
10:35 PM roycroft: if you design one part that you sell with it you're supposed to buy it
10:35 PM CaptHindsight: last week i opened an STEP file in freecad
10:35 PM roycroft: and even the "free" version is not really free
10:35 PM CaptHindsight: but the ruler didn't measure anything
10:35 PM unterhaus_: no, free version has a 1k dollar limit
10:35 PM roycroft: when i signed up and installed it i started getting phone calls form autodesk trying to upsell me
10:35 PM roycroft: plus, it requires calling home regularly
10:36 PM roycroft: i dumped it because of that reason alone
10:36 PM unterhaus_: it's not as bad as pro/e used to be about the license
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: so 360 is really $40/mo plus being monitored by Autodesk
10:36 PM unterhaus_: if you paused for a bit, you couldn't move the mouse for another minute
10:37 PM unterhaus_: I don't see how companies can use it if they value their work
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: and the free version is not 100% functional?
10:37 PM unterhaus_: it's quite functional, unless you need to read some solidworks files
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: and be monitored
10:38 PM roycroft: requiring calling home and sharing your files with autodesk means it's not 100% functinoal
10:38 PM roycroft: functional
10:38 PM roycroft: it's needlessly and fatally crippled
10:38 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: does 360 export STEP and IGES?
10:38 PM unterhaus_: pretty sure it does
10:38 PM Tom_L: roycroft, that's the future of software
10:38 PM unterhaus_: expensive software, yes
10:39 PM CaptHindsight: has freecad done a kickstarter or similar?
10:39 PM unterhaus_: I imported a STEP on fusion and it did a better job with that than SW does
10:40 PM roycroft: sadly, it seems to be, tom_l
10:40 PM Tom_L: is step better than iges?
10:40 PM Tom_L: more original data kept
10:40 PM Tom_L: i've always just used iges for 3d models
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Donate broken
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Help_FreeCAD broken
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: are these guys just overwhelmed?
10:41 PM CaptHindsight: it's a giant undertaking
10:43 PM Tom_L: and what are .sat and .sab?
10:43 PM Tom_L: ACIS files
10:52 PM roycroft: it's supposed to be fall, but it's still 27 degrees at 9 o'clock at night
10:53 PM CaptHindsight: the cool weather is out east
10:53 PM CaptHindsight: 13 tonight
10:56 PM XXCoder: very windy and smoke in air here
11:04 PM roycroft: our heat and winds came in from the northeast this morning
11:05 PM XXCoder: calfornia fires smoke is arriving here
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: heh surprised a skunk outside my door
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: not sure who jumped higher
11:13 PM XXCoder: in least one didnt gain a new smell
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: 20 ft