#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 06 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:54 AM Deejay: moin
04:46 AM Centreline: hey all, dumb question to the mesa crowd, do I need a 24v supply to run a 7i76? I finally bit the bullet and bought one after getting frustrated with my 1205 bob's but I have only got a 5v psu + 80vdc for the steppers themselves....
04:52 AM JT-Cave: Centreline, yes the I/O needs a 24vdc power supply
04:52 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:52 AM Centreline: ok, so I'll have to buy a 24v din rail psu to run just the card
04:52 AM Centreline: midday here sorry, tz's :)
04:54 AM JT-Cave: yes and no, you can run the card with the 5v but you will not have any I/O
04:55 AM Centreline: hmmm I have everything set up on 5v currently, the probe etc.
04:57 AM Centreline: how would that work with a 5v mpg? it would just stay on the 5v rail but connect to the board running 24v?
04:57 AM JT-Cave: what is the 7i76 connected to?
04:58 AM Centreline: pc side? a 5i25 superport
04:58 AM JT-Cave: so your using the 5v from the 5i25 for the 7i76?
04:59 AM Centreline: no I have a rail mounted 5v for field voltage setup on the current chinese bob's
04:59 AM Centreline: 5v psu
05:01 AM Centreline: so the next question is... if I need a 24vdc source, what sort of wattage?
05:01 AM JT-Cave: The 7I76 can get its 5V encoder, step/dir and serial interface power from the hostinterface card if desired.
05:01 AM Centreline: yeahbut I fried some usb ports on a earlier incarnation so I'm ok with running 5v from a psu
05:02 AM JT-Cave: it's not a usb port but 5vdc from the 5i25
05:02 AM JT-Cave: normally that is the way the 7i76/7 get the 5v
05:03 AM Centreline: ok, but this time the pc is a sff with a really odd psu that is only 160w or something insane, so I just wanted to keep the load off the pc psu as much as possible
05:03 AM JT-Cave: just reading the manual... The 7I76 field I/O runs from field power supplies of 5 to 32 VDC. Field powersupplies the power to the 7I76 outputs and determines the 7I76 input thresholds.
05:04 AM Centreline: yes I read that, but it also says if voltage drops below a certain voltage it can't perform certain functions correctly...
05:04 AM JT-Cave: http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/parallel/7i76man.pdf
05:04 AM Centreline: and I seen some other posts stating that you MUST have a 24vdc source for it to have all the functions work
05:05 AM JT-Cave: no 12v works fine, but 24v is the norm
05:05 AM Centreline: well I have to add a psu, because I cant feed it 80v that the steppers run on, I have no problem with that part
05:05 AM JT-Cave: hmm looks like the pullets laid a couple of eggs last night it 5am here
05:06 AM Centreline: so if I feed the mesa with 24vdc, does it feed 5v off to the mpg etc or 24vdc?
05:06 AM JT-Cave: normally the 5i25 supplies 5v to the 7i76 and you use 24v for field power
05:07 AM JT-Cave: 24v is for inputs and outputs not the mpg
05:08 AM Centreline: ok, so just a low current signal usage
05:08 AM JT-Cave: mpg and step/direction use the 5v from the 5i25 if both cards jumpers are set right
05:09 AM Centreline: so like a 24vdc 1a/24w psu should be enough?
05:09 AM Centreline: its literally just to run the 7i76 as this stage
05:09 AM JT-Cave: yea normally the I/O power is very little
05:10 AM JT-Cave: the inputs should use almost nothing and the outputs well that depends on what you have connected
05:10 AM Centreline: just logic to drive external relays that are powered elsewhere
05:11 AM Centreline: suds/mist/lamp/spindle dir etc, the usual things
05:11 AM JT-Cave: to be safe find out the power draw of the relays
05:12 AM Centreline: I think it'll be ok but I can check. We're talking sainsmart size boards, not huge contactors
05:13 AM JT-Cave: ah they draw very little current
05:13 AM Centreline: yeah they can be driven direct by a arduino normally
05:14 AM JT-Cave: I have the 4 up running the automation in my two chicken coops
05:14 AM JT-Cave: with raspberry pi 3b's as the control
05:14 AM Centreline: my home automation uses them and arduino's everywhere, and homeassistant on a linux box (no pi's allowed here, we have some bbb's for mpd hosts though)
05:16 AM JT-Cave: cool
05:16 AM JT-Cave: I'm just flashing linuxcnc 2.8 on a sd card for a Rpi4
05:16 AM Centreline: not to start a religious war, but I avoid pi's after reliability issues
05:17 AM Centreline: but each to their own (flavour of sbc)
05:18 AM JT-Cave: I've never had a pi fail to work or a nano either which I have a box full of them
05:20 AM Centreline: work set up 8 in a testbed as we were going to use them to develop something, all running in the same env, same psu common rail, same temperature etc. And 6 played up, corrupted cards on reboot etc, and two were fine
05:21 AM Centreline: so we swapped them about looking for the issue, and it turned out to be the pi's themselves. And Ive got three here, two I know will corrupt sd cards occasionally, but one is bombproof reliable
05:22 AM JT-Cave: wow
05:22 AM Centreline: meanwhile I have a beaglebone running octoprint for probably 4+ years now, abused by turning power off to the 4way strip with printer etc on it, that just works every time
05:22 AM JT-Cave: which pi?
05:22 AM Centreline: I'd rather pay a bit more and have something I trust, just personal choice now maybe
05:23 AM Centreline: these were model b's
05:23 AM Centreline: same with the mpd boxes, if we have a power cut, they all come back up without drama every time
05:23 AM JT-Cave: I've never messed with a beaglebone before but they look interesting
05:24 AM Centreline: the gpu is slower, so if you want it for kodi etc its a non starter, but they seem bombproof in other ways and the PRU's are nice
05:24 AM JT-Cave: what's kodi?
05:25 AM Centreline: tv/video streaming software, turns a dumb tv into being capable of viewing iptv/youtube etc
05:26 AM JT-Cave: oh, I don't use that I have sat tv and sat internet living out in the woods on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road
05:26 AM JT-Cave: looks like every version of the pi from the git go had a model b except the zero
05:27 AM Centreline: we have sat tv, but its fed into a sat>ip box, that converts the sat feed into a ip stream that is piped around the house by ip
05:27 AM JT-Cave: I use 3b's and 4b's
05:27 AM JT-Cave: cool
05:28 AM Centreline: it meant we just needed to make sure everywhere had ethernet when we were building, not worry about satellite cabling, we use low end NUC's as the tv boxes themselves
05:46 AM JT-Cave: wow I just got an order from NZ
06:07 AM Centreline: damn you amazon, I just bought a din rail 24v psu, and up pops flash sale for longer orange30 resin printer. And its cheaper than the 7i76 cost alone...
06:08 AM Tom_L: morning
06:09 AM Centreline: 'noon
06:12 AM Tom_L: yeah, it happens the earth isn't flat after all
06:13 AM Centreline: I work for a company that's in almost every timezone and uses slack, it'd be pretty hard to deny that fact :)
06:15 AM gloops: sorry for being behind the times 'resin printer' is that like a cold resin GRP kind of printer?
06:15 AM Centreline: I think I had a realization. With a centering camera, instead of having it aligned to the spindle axis, I can mount it off to one side and apply a offset to the results, then it can be mounted the ram permanently in a known position.
06:17 AM Centreline: resin printer is what they call SLA nowadays, so a 3d printer with resin that is uv cured
06:17 AM gloops: ahh right, thanks
06:18 AM Centreline: I have had a hot gluegun style ooze the plastic out style 3d printer for years, but not a SLA one and was doing idle bored research on cheap ones recently so I guess my search history is full of them for the amazon algo to try to tempt me
06:19 AM Centreline: I'm trying to convince myself it would be a nice complement to metal casting to make some moulds
06:20 AM Centreline: but they all seem closed plastic things with a chinese toolchain (chitibox slicer) that I have to just install and trust its safe
06:20 AM Centreline: maybe I could give it its own isolated virtual machine
06:21 AM gloops: hmm, around 250 for a 5x3inch job area
06:24 AM Centreline: yep, the larger they go, the more they cost because of the price of the dlp screen they use. the orange30 has more build volume than the 10, but the elgoo mars2 seems to have some features the others dont (auto bed levelling). But I think the sales are getting rid of stock because the elgoo saturn is due out soon with larger build volumes...
06:31 AM gloops: so the idea is to print a form, make a mold from that, to cast metal? sounds ideal for that
06:33 AM gloops: advatange over routing a form from wood, 3d printer does all axis, or would require a 6 axis router to get the same undercuts
06:38 AM Tom_L: gloops, lost wax casting minus the wax
06:38 AM gloops: so the metal melts the resin out ?
06:38 AM Tom_L: or it's oven baked out before hand
07:12 AM Centreline: you can buy zero ash resin to burn out during the pour
07:15 AM Centreline: my big problem is getting material, and so far I just use my casting setup to turn scrap into ingots, but I could cast something around a resin print mould then clean it up in the mill if it needs more precision/machined surfaces
07:16 AM Centreline: I could just make a mould in the mill from wood though, so who am I kidding that I need a sla printer to do this
07:16 AM tiwake: SLS is not cheap
07:17 AM tiwake: donno why, its really not that much more complicated
07:17 AM tiwake: I've heard because of patent lockdown
07:26 AM Centreline: I'm happy with "subtractive" methods when I can get suitable raw stock
08:33 AM _unreal_: I've done castings in the past
08:33 AM _unreal_: if your going to 3d print cast. depending on the material. your often better off removing it after leaving the imprint
08:33 AM _unreal_: in other words split molds
08:33 AM JT-Cave: I guess I need to try the rpi-5.4.y kernel
08:34 AM _unreal_: foam is the best for lost casting
08:34 AM _unreal_: the major issue is watching for escaping gasses during the burning processes
08:34 AM _unreal_: they will screw up the sand form
08:35 AM _unreal_: I have never used plastic or 3D printed parts for lost casting
08:36 AM _unreal_: so mainly its dependent on infill you want as little infill as you can
08:36 AM _unreal_: if your going to 3d print a form
08:37 AM _unreal_: AN other ASPECT I'd suggest is doing a drywall coating on the casting. meaning get drywall mud. take out batches and water it down a bit. dip the part will your fill and vents and everything all attached. do a few dips to build up the ddrywall mud.
08:37 AM _unreal_: THEN burry is in the sand
08:38 AM _unreal_: the nice thing about doing that is that it gives a " HARD " outside depending on thickness. and will help it maintain its form better
08:39 AM _unreal_: an other option is to use that pour casting stuff that name is escaping me right now
08:55 AM Centreline: its more of a "I'll have a play with that" with 3d printed moulds than a hard requirement for something I do, but so far I've just used the casting furnace to make ingots and lumps of raw stock from junk
08:56 AM Centreline: mostly because currently where its sat has no side/floor in it, and was supposed to be getting new floor laid then covid happened...
08:57 AM Centreline: its ok to pour some ingots without a workbench/area etc, but I haven't gone into making a bench/putting together drag/copes etc
08:58 AM Centreline: as I point out to my wife, technically I dont need anything workshop related because I write code for a living, so not buying/investigating something because I dont have a direct need is a slippery slope though...
08:59 AM Centreline: I did greensand casting years ago at college, and remember hours and hours making and polishing moulds for forms, so print something and light prep seems nicer
09:00 AM Centreline: but its just a whim right now anyway, I probably need to focus on getting the interact back together, then I can make some parts for the backhoe that I need to finish the other stuff
09:02 AM Centreline: which I'm currently vnc'd into and just got campy and opencv working in gmoccapy, seems less messy than camview, yay.
09:57 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, what image are you testing?
09:57 AM Tom_L: i'm running 4.19.71-rt24-v7l+
09:59 AM Tom_Rpi: linuxcnc 4.19.71-rt24-v7l+ #4 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Apr 30 22:00:15 CDT 2020
10:00 AM Tom_L: 2.8.0 pre1 lcnc
10:03 AM robotustra: Tom_L, what gui clients are in 2.8.0 version?
10:04 AM Tom_L: i haven't tested the new iso and gmoccapy and gscreen were broke in the one i have loaded
10:04 AM Tom_L: so supposedly those, axis and maybe qtpyvcp access
10:04 AM Tom_L: touchy
10:04 AM Tom_L: maybe a couple others i've never used
10:05 AM robotustra: is this gui already available? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRZ_AMuayoM
10:06 AM Tom_L: that looks alot like probebasic
10:06 AM Tom_L: i'm not sure but it _is_ qtpyvcp
10:07 AM Tom_L: could be another custom one somone did in qtpyvcp
10:08 AM robotustra: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gui/qtvcp.html
10:08 AM robotustra: yeah, looks like similar
10:08 AM Tom_L: that's different
10:09 AM robotustra: that one in the video is a mockup
10:10 AM robotustra: not real gui
10:10 AM Tom_L: qtvcp and qtpyvcp are different
10:10 AM robotustra: ah ok
10:11 AM robotustra: but qtvcp is written in python too :)
10:11 AM Tom_L: it's older
10:12 AM robotustra: yet another one: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/32678-hazzy-another-touchscreen-gui
10:12 AM Tom_L: and that is the newer one
10:14 AM robotustra: 07 Aug 2018
10:14 AM robotustra: last comment
10:14 AM robotustra: I think it's abandoned
10:14 AM Tom_L: it was one of hazzy's first examples of qtpyvcp
10:15 AM Tom_L: he spends most of his time writing qtpyvcp. not making examples
10:15 AM jymmmm: morning
10:15 AM Tom_L: yes it is
10:15 AM Tom_L: good morning jymmmm
10:15 AM jymmmm: Hi Tom_L =)
10:16 AM robotustra: gm
10:17 AM robotustra: attached the spinle plate to the frame of the lathe yesterday, now pondering how to attach motor to the spindle
10:18 AM Tom_L: nice
10:18 AM Tom_L: how you gonna check alignment?
10:30 AM robotustra: I put some slacks to adjust later
10:30 AM robotustra: it's all bolted
10:31 AM Tom_L: i'd pin it after you get it
10:31 AM robotustra: yeah, but it's a very final adjustment
10:32 AM rue_mohr: captain_morgan, you know anything of making a laser galv?
10:33 AM rue_mohr: CaptHindsight, how about you?
10:33 AM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, ^^
10:34 AM rue_mohr: I wonder if I could put a small mirror on a voltmeter without over-massing it
10:35 AM jymmmm: rue_mohr: I think you can just buy a galvo head alone
10:35 AM jymmmm: then do the electronics yourself for controlling it
10:35 AM rue_mohr: ouche$
10:35 AM Tom_L: jymmmm, i don't think that's the point
10:35 AM jymmmm: ebay?
10:36 AM rue_mohr: I'm making a power supply, I'd like to use a laser/galv in a rear-projection style for the votlage/current indictors
10:37 AM rue_mohr: I been playing with a few other things
10:38 AM rue_mohr: I modded up a laser printer module, did timed laser pulses,
10:38 AM rue_mohr: the speed really isn't that stable, it requires a pretty quick pulse
10:39 AM rue_mohr: and with the laser replaced there needs to be a new pickup for zero loc.
11:05 AM robotustra: f*ck mich
11:05 AM robotustra: my spindle motor driver does not have analog input for voltage
11:05 AM robotustra: to control spindle
11:06 AM Tom_L: :/
11:06 AM robotustra: and CP has 0-10V output with discrete signals like CW, CWW, stop
11:06 AM Tom_L: what does it expect to see?
11:06 AM Tom_L: cp?
11:07 AM robotustra: control panel
11:07 AM Tom_L: mmm
11:07 AM robotustra: this driver accepts either step/dir, or modbus
11:07 AM robotustra: no analog input
11:08 AM Tom_L: what control do you have?
11:08 AM robotustra: cnc990TDB
11:08 AM Tom_L: there are a couple modbus comps
11:08 AM Tom_L: you might have to mod one
11:08 AM robotustra: you mean modules?
11:10 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/gs2_vfd.1.html
11:10 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/hy_gt_vfd.1.html
11:10 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/hy_vfd.1.html
11:10 AM Tom_L: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/mb2hal.1.html
11:11 AM robotustra: no, you didn't got me
11:11 AM robotustra: I have a dedicated controller, for cnc lathe
11:11 AM Tom_L: oh
11:12 AM robotustra: like this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/Best-price-2-Axis-CNC-Lathe-Controller-CNC990TDb-English-panel-MPG-Relay-box/264357803923
11:12 AM Tom_L: find where the analog is converted from pwm?
11:12 AM robotustra: I think I'll make my own converter
11:12 AM robotustra: analog-digital
11:13 AM robotustra: or I make a trick - I'll make spindle an axis A
11:13 AM robotustra: may be it's not a brilliant idea
12:44 PM CaptHindsight: rue_mohr: indicator coils are designed for the mass of their needle
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: galvo motors are all about matching the mass of the moving assembly to the coil design so they can be precisely moved at highest speeds
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: motors for small mirrors (10mm dia) might draw 10A peak at ~12V when moving at top speed
12:49 PM rue_mohr: the performance of a galv would probably be lots higher than a meter
12:49 PM rue_mohr: or I could just do with a lot qual galv
12:50 PM rue_mohr: I tried one from a speaker coil, couldn't get enough deflection
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: you might be able to use a meter to move a small mirror slowly
12:50 PM rue_mohr: I want to span about 10cm with a depth of about 20-25cm most
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: sorry I'm not running numbers
12:51 PM rue_mohr: no problem
12:51 PM rue_mohr: its just for a voltage/current display on a power supply
12:51 PM rue_mohr: rear projection
12:51 PM rue_mohr: nice high contrast
12:51 PM rue_mohr: long narrow indicator
12:59 PM _unreal_: well that was refreshing, just got out of the pool
01:02 PM Centreline: hmmm I seem to remember doing this a few years ago, but my usb keyboard breakout board is not in the linux usb.id database. So I searched for the manufacturer (3TR) to make a submission to usb.id database and cant find them anywhere...
01:02 PM Centreline: it works for me, but should I submit it given I cant find the oem anymore or know if they actually had the id's assigned?
01:03 PM Centreline: its sort of a pokeys type device if that helps, in that you have screw terminals, and it plugs into usb and emulates a kb with whatever key you tell it for each terminal
01:05 PM robotustra: can't find the right instruction for the driver
01:05 PM robotustra: 110st-M04030
01:06 PM robotustra: I have CN2 with 25 pins, but everywhere it's with 3 row DB connector
01:06 PM robotustra: and I have DB-25
01:11 PM Centreline: submitted with a load of info in comments, the usb_id list maintainer can make the call on if its legit for his list or not...
01:12 PM robotustra: may be somebody has the driver manual?
01:13 PM robotustra: for the driver like this: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/263002893207
01:15 PM robotustra: ah, it looks like I find right wiring diagram
01:28 PM unreal is now known as Guest32312
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: robotustra: Holiday tomorrow as well in Cananda?
01:35 PM Eric__: they didn't give the penn state students tomorrow off so they wouldn't go home
01:36 PM Eric__: the funny thing was they sent parents an email at 5 pm on Friday asking them not to let the students go home and not to visit them
01:36 PM Eric__: a little late. But that's why they make the big bucks
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: :)
01:37 PM robotustra: CaptHindsight, yes, thank you for reminder
01:39 PM robotustra: finally I got the right driver manual and it looks like have 10V input to control motor rotations, the only thing is left - how to invert rotations
01:39 PM robotustra: because fkn driver has -10V~+10V range
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: robotustra: what are you driving it with?
01:42 PM robotustra: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/26300289320
01:43 PM robotustra: I have a cnc control which can supply 0-10V and CCW,CW,Stop discret signals
01:43 PM robotustra: and the motor driver has -10V ~ +10V input
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: last link did not work for me
01:43 PM robotustra: 1 sec
01:44 PM robotustra: https://www.ebay.com/itm/263002893207
01:44 PM CaptHindsight: robotustra: the input for +- 10V is differential
01:44 PM robotustra: does it work?
01:45 PM robotustra: I don't think so
01:45 PM CaptHindsight: so you can use the gnd/common for the 10V analog out
01:45 PM robotustra: and flip them?
01:45 PM robotustra: good idea
01:45 PM robotustra: if it's differential
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: what is going to supply the 10V analog out? a mesa card or?
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: most +- 10V inputs are just differential inputs.... so you can use gnd/common and +10V or even +5V from the motion controller ...
01:47 PM robotustra: cnc990Tdb
01:47 PM robotustra: not mesa
01:48 PM Tom_L: standalone chinaco one
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: you can then scale the drive to be at max RPM or current for only 5 or 10V differential
01:50 PM Tom_L: where do you find a -10v ref supply?
01:50 PM Tom_L: they're a bit harder to come by
01:50 PM Tom_L: ( i don't need one but wondered )
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: since the differential input is a differential amplifier all the servo drive sees is the difference between the + and - input
01:51 PM Tom_L: so you could have 0-20v
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: so you don't have to worry about flipping the input
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: yes, IF the max in is +- 10V since that is a 20V max difference
01:52 PM Tom_L: i didn't know if it was referenced from gnd
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: how most analog outputs for servo controls do it, the GND reference is a clean analog GND
01:54 PM Tom_L: fortunatel for me the one i'm getting is 0 - 10v
01:54 PM Tom_L: +y
02:47 PM Centreline: awesome I just found my "Pokeys" type keyboard device on ebay still, and id'd the manufacturer from it as 3Tronics :- https://www.ebay.com/itm/174175778858
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: likely a full keyboard controller with only some of the scan codes used
02:50 PM Centreline: you can reprogram what scan codes come out for which keypress in software, but the interesting thing is I submitted its id to the linux usb.id maintainer earlier so can now update the entry
02:50 PM Centreline: because every few years I forget all this, and have to go through the same fix, this way its fixed for everyone
02:51 PM Centreline: its just easy to add more "hardware" buttons without a bunch more i/o though, I have my knee & head joysticks wired to it
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: way back in the 90's we had to pay a license fee for the keyboard BIOS
02:54 PM Centreline: back in the days when cdrecord had a license fee :)
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: i forgot how that works it's been so long
02:55 PM Centreline: you emailed jorg schilling, and sent a few emails back and forth trying to find a way how to pay him, only for him to give up as too complicated and never bother selling the license
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: the 8042 firmware had a license
02:56 PM Centreline: yes I understand, I was just being flippant about cdrecord (that actually happened when we tried to license cdrecord on solaris on a commercial project)
02:57 PM Centreline: I bought a 4Front OSS license in the same period too, but they at least managed to find a way for me to pay for it
02:57 PM Centreline: and that was a voluntary thing to just support linux audio in the early days
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: a bunch of projects tried to use the PS2 connectors for other IO than keyboard and mouse back then
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: way before USB
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: everyones patents ran out in the 00's
03:00 PM Centreline: heh 5 pin din -> ps2 -> usb, I still have some stuff with 5 pin din keyboards on them
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: Centreline: whats on that board?
03:00 PM Eric__: I'm about to recycle my last ps2 keyboards. IBM model M. If they were the better ones, I would keep them
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: an FPGA or some microncontroller?
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: or a full blown USB keyboard controller IC
03:02 PM Centreline: the keyboard adapter? its a microcontroller I think, let me go look if its not been scrubbed
03:06 PM Centreline: just went the shop and looked, its a PIC19F4SK50
03:07 PM Centreline: I remember reprogramming what key comes out for which switch in the midst of time when I first done my bridgeport conversion, and after that it just worked, except I forgot I edited the usb.id's for udev to recognize it and reinstalled linuxcnc to upgrade to a mesa in place of parport
03:07 PM Eric__: CaptHindsight I'm now obsessing over a potential project with qtpyvcp and I blame you
03:11 PM Centreline: CaptHindsight, probably https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC18F45K50 I was using a torch in machine cabinet...
03:17 PM Centreline: Eric__, you could always use a ps2->usb adaptor if you still like the feel of the keyboards. I have to use a split ergo nowdays as my wrists are trashed
03:19 PM Guest32312 is now known as _unreal_
03:19 PM _unreal_: check this out https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C-fuAbumCqSQ0Zs6zVfMSxH7qZYv99aW/view?usp=sharing
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: Eric__: good, mission accomplished
03:20 PM _unreal_: the machine I'm bilding for my daughter to learn on MOVES
03:25 PM Eric__: do those old ps2->usb converters from logitech keyboards work for general translation duties?
03:27 PM W1N9Zr0: those converters are passive devices, the keyboards they come with can detect what they're plugged into and talk both usb and ps2
03:37 PM Centreline: I have some ps2->Usb converters that are leads that work with everything Ive tried them with
03:38 PM Centreline: I use them for putting things on a ps2 only kvm I have when they have ps2 port issues
03:38 PM Deejay: gn8
03:38 PM Centreline: but... not sure Ive ever seen a pc without a ps2 port, even a server
03:38 PM Centreline: excluding the 5 pin din xt era stuff
03:42 PM Centreline: on which note, gnite also
03:58 PM roycroft: centreline must be a young whippersnapper :)
04:03 PM roycroft: and now it is time to sand and sand and sand and sand and sand
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: almost done with my sanding
04:21 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, all 12 coats?
04:21 PM Tom_L: or mmm i lost count...
04:39 PM Loetmichel: *hrrrngh* never thought writing SF-stories could both so easy and so hard... maybe i shouldnt have written my first story in 3 decades in a foreign language? (there go the hours of free time away) ;)
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: just the prep-sand, after all the coats there is about 2 full days of very light fine sanding and then polishing
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: also a few hours of sanding between last prime coat and first color coat
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: all depends on how well the prep was done
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: there is a a few layers of fine mica powders applied between color and clear coats to add depth
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: so it's a but bumpy after clear coat, then you polish to flat and high gloss
05:07 PM CaptHindsight: but/bit
05:09 PM Tom_L: what's your final grit you use?
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: for paper #3000
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: then it's rubbing and or polishing compounds
05:11 PM Tom_L: ever hear of a ceramic clearcoat?
05:12 PM CaptHindsight: transparent aluminum, and also polymer/urethane clears with ceramic particles
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxynitride
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: the others are all just hard particles mixed into the urethane
05:16 PM veegee: CaptHindsight AW32 a safe bet for hydraulic oil for my allis chalmers forklift?
05:17 PM veegee: CaptHindsight this is the only manual I could find for it: https://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-10-3930-624-12.pdf
05:17 PM Tom_L: the dealer tried selling that clearcoat when we were in there
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: what I keep around for machines and lifts
05:17 PM Tom_L: the pics looked really good
05:18 PM veegee: I'm looking to buy a trailer to transport the forklift, not as expensive as I thought
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: I've shot cars with furniture lacquer (nitrocellulose)
05:19 PM Tom_L: i have too
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: they look good for a few years
05:19 PM Tom_L: not just cars but yeah
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: all depends on the color
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: how long it will last in the sun
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: add a clearcoat with some UV blockers are they last longer
05:20 PM Tom_L: worst we ever shot was polyester
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindered_amine_light_stabilizers
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: yellowish tint to the polyester?
05:21 PM Tom_L: no this was black
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: boats use polyesters
05:21 PM Tom_L: right
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: it's cheap
05:22 PM Tom_L: some furniture does too
05:22 PM CaptHindsight: there soo much profit margin in auto paints
05:24 PM Tom_L: i was just curious what that clearcoat was. it looked like glass
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: what happened to the black?
05:24 PM Tom_L: ?
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: the black poly you painted
05:24 PM Tom_L: it turned out ok
05:24 PM Tom_L: sanded and buffed
05:24 PM Tom_L: can't re'coat though, the layers show if you sand thru
05:25 PM Tom_L: so you gotta build what you want before it cures
05:25 PM Tom_L: almost too long ago for me to remember
05:25 PM CaptHindsight: ceramic clearcoat is just a urethane clear with ceramic nanoparticles
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: you play with the oligomers used in the urethane to balance between hard and flexible
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: then you just add ceramic particles
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: those single stage enamels are like that
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: they only have a clear gloss shell on the exterior surface...
05:28 PM CaptHindsight: if you sand past the gloss you can't get it back without recoating
05:29 PM CaptHindsight: if you have a dust free area or a spray booth you can get a pretty good finish just using industrial alkyds
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: rustoleum and similar for farm and industrial
05:30 PM Tom_L: yeah
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: they just take hours to dry
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: and you know how to spray
05:30 PM Tom_L: i brushed it on my mill and it flowed out ok
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: i repainted a fork lift and it looked like a custom car
05:31 PM Tom_L: not nearly as concerned about finish on it
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/hAO3gYv
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/djWp4Ui
05:33 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Paint/Paint3.jpg
05:33 PM Tom_L: you make it look too good, you won't wanna use it
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: what brand did you use for the blue?
05:34 PM Tom_L: i dunno, something from a box store
05:34 PM Tom_L: i was gonna use imron but decided it wasn't worth it
05:35 PM Tom_L: not as durable but alot cheaper
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.farmandfleet.com/products/1301299-krylon-1-gal-farm-and-implement-john-deere-yellow-high-gloss-enamel-paint.html
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: the spray cans are also an exact match for touch ups
05:36 PM Tom_L: yeah, this was similar enamel
05:36 PM Tom_L: considering what the metal looked like when i started...
05:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Column1.jpg
05:38 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.autobodymaster.com/primer_summary.jsp i used their epoxy primer, it's ~$100 for 2 gal total of 1:1 base and hardener
05:38 PM Tom_L: that's not bad
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: was my 10K lb lift https://imgur.com/djWp4Ui
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: gross weight was ~16k lbs so it could move the matsuura around
05:40 PM CaptHindsight: but would get stuck in 1/4" of snow
05:41 PM Tom_L: slippery when wet
05:41 PM Tom_L: too
05:41 PM veegee: Yeah, if I buy a new forklift it would probably be this https://www.hyster.com/north-america/en-us/products/4-wheel-electric-trucks/j155-190xnl/
05:41 PM veegee: 15,000 lb capacity
05:41 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200906_111615.jpg
05:42 PM skunkworks: so far so good
05:42 PM skunkworks: going back together
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: the yale was too big to make it to our docks
05:42 PM veegee: probably the short counterweight model
05:42 PM veegee: I had to rent a 15,000 lb forklift for a day to move the brake and shear
05:42 PM veegee: I had fun moving cars with it too haha
05:43 PM veegee: and moving the abandoned forklift in the parking lot so it doesn't take up a parking space
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: we have a drive in door that the trucks can back into and slide machines off
05:43 PM veegee: You know what, I'm going to modify the allis chalmers and make it electric
05:43 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, is that the new bushing?
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: nice action shot
05:44 PM veegee: The manual doesn't show where the oil drain plug is
05:44 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: i suspect somewhere under :)
05:44 PM veegee: yeah :(
05:44 PM veegee: at least it takes a standard automotive oil filter I can find at any canadian tire
05:45 PM veegee: I'm going to guess that the oil is SAE 30
05:45 PM veegee: so just going to do an oil change with some new 10w-30
05:45 PM veegee: LiFePO4 batteries would be perfect for forklift use
05:45 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: yes. Found some brass
05:45 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: thanks :)
05:46 PM veegee: Should I use "high mileage" oil?
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: I'd rather have an electric for overall use
05:46 PM veegee: yeah electric for sure, just not lead acid
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: and just rent something bigger if and when i need it
05:47 PM veegee: The transport costs are more than the daily rental costs for that 15,000 lb forklift
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: with propane in the winter you have to vent the whole shop for just moving something around for a few minutes
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: unless you like carbon monoxide
05:48 PM veegee: few minutes won't do any harm
05:48 PM veegee: CO emissions from propane combustion are much lower than gasoline
05:48 PM veegee: and your body makes an insane amount of red blood cells
05:48 PM CaptHindsight: sure but I have things around here that don't like it
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: I need more zones
05:49 PM veegee: could always attach a hose to the exhaust and vent it through a hole in the ceiling
05:50 PM veegee: just extend the exhaust hose with some copper pipe to cool it a bit and attach a rubber air hose for the remaining
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: renting just sucks
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: real estate that is
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: why did you make a 1/4" hole in the weall?!!!!!! ahhhhhhhhhh
05:51 PM CaptHindsight: weall/wall
05:52 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, did the old one have an oil channel in it?
05:52 PM veegee: CaptHindsight https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/CFM.html enter your propane forklift engine specs. 2,500cc @ 3,600 RPM gives you ~127 CFM
05:52 PM veegee: you can push that through a 1/2" ID air hose
05:53 PM veegee: just vent the exhaust outside
05:53 PM veegee: no need to flush the workshop
05:53 PM veegee: and that's at max throttle
05:53 PM CaptHindsight: i sold it last year
05:54 PM veegee: also the particulate matter from the exhaust is much worse than CO
05:55 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: it did kinda.. it had an oil hole at the top - then a grove all through the center. The groves radiating out to the edge.
05:55 PM skunkworks: I don't think it was a good design.. didn't really keep the oil in.
05:55 PM veegee: CO just binds hemoglobin
05:55 PM Tom_L: right, that's what i meant
05:55 PM veegee: your body will make more
05:55 PM veegee: particulate matter is carcinogenic to the lungs
05:56 PM skunkworks: I added a couple grooves that run the oil around
05:56 PM CaptHindsight: <--sanding
05:56 PM veegee: I turn on all my dust collectors when I'm in the shop
05:56 PM veegee: I wear ear plugs 100% of the time when I'm there so I barely notice it
05:57 PM skunkworks: more like you normally see in the bushing
05:57 PM veegee: they're all high volume HEPA filters. Damn filters cost more than the whole dust collector itself
05:57 PM veegee: can't put a price on avoiding lung cancer though
05:59 PM veegee: also why don't all vacuums use a dust cyclone/cylonic separator?
05:59 PM veegee: those things are amazing
05:59 PM veegee: I have one for every vacuum and I want to mount it permanently
06:08 PM XXCoder: theres 3d printer models of those
06:08 PM XXCoder: ones that uses soda bottles lol
06:27 PM Tom_L: check out colorado's weekly forecast...
06:29 PM XXCoder: tues snow heh
06:29 PM XXCoder: https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/Denver+CO?canonicalCityId=9298101d6fcde701a8dae5f27c875376e208cae14ce31a258c225f63573146be
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: yeah 90 to 30 overnight
06:42 PM CaptHindsight: and back
06:44 PM XXCoder: crazy
06:45 PM XXCoder: "The largest recorded temperature change in one place over a 24-hour period occurred on January 15, 1972 in Loma, Montana, when the temperature rose from −54 to 49 °F (−47.8 to 9.4 °C) . "
07:13 PM robotustra: yeah, it looks like analog input for driver is differential
07:13 PM robotustra: it means that I can flip the wires to get reverse direction
08:02 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200906_190250.jpg
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: going back together?
08:07 PM Tom_L: cabinet hinges, dremel with abrasive wheel, socket wrench, sawblade, car parked outside the window, but most of all.. hammer and in the middle of it all a compressor
08:08 PM Tom_L: :)
08:34 PM jdh: you missed the roll of insulation and cd-rom case ful of screwdriver bits
08:38 PM Tom_L: and punch
09:04 PM Eric__: reminds me I need to find my drift punch
09:15 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: car is inside..
09:15 PM Tom_L: i wondered after i said that
09:15 PM skunkworks: didn't want to make a mess on the new work bench..
09:15 PM Tom_L: hah
09:15 PM skunkworks: now making seals..
09:15 PM skunkworks: could not find any
09:16 PM Tom_L: shaft seals?
09:16 PM skunkworks: no. bearing cap and head
09:16 PM Tom_L: ahh
09:16 PM Tom_L: copper head?
09:17 PM skunkworks: the head requires 3
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: How many things can you spot?
09:20 PM skunkworks: no - seals look like some sort of fiberous paper
09:21 PM skunkworks: find out if the stuff I got from the automotive place will work
09:21 PM Tom_L: i remember that paper gasket material we used to get for diy gaskets...
09:22 PM Tom_L: if it doesn't hold the pressure, you might try copper
09:22 PM skunkworks: sure
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: how thick can the gasket be?
09:23 PM Tom_L: if nothing obstructs the pistons, pretty thin i'd think
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: gasket material and razor knife, but i bet he has CNC tools to cut one out :)
09:25 PM Tom_L: i'd use all sorts of things in a pinch
09:36 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
09:44 PM roycroft: well, i'm still on track - i got everything done today that i intended to do, even though i had a couple
09:44 PM roycroft: of "diversions" due to things not working out exactly as planned
09:44 PM * roycroft may still be able to install his bench top pieces permanently tomrrow
09:51 PM Tom_L: won't mean much to most here but i finished cleaning up my thread macro that i used for these: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Brass_cup/Brass_Cups5.jpg
09:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Smartcam/THREADMILL.MCL
11:02 PM roycroft: has anyone here ever used a cricut for making etching masks or stencils?
11:07 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Stencils/stencil_form4.jpg
11:07 PM Tom_L: like those?
11:08 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Stencils/stencils.jpg
11:09 PM Tom_L: https://ohararp.com/stencils/
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: Cricut? is that a drag knife plotter?
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: flatbed or rolls or both?
11:12 PM Tom_L: i thought he meant something else
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://cricut.com/en_us/cricut-explore-family
11:13 PM Tom_L: gocha
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: i thought it was a typo
11:14 PM Tom_L: so did i
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: and I spent a few minutes on the website and still not sure of the media size and type
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: "our site is so dumbed down you'll never know what it is"
11:15 PM Tom_L: later.
11:18 PM roycroft: it's a "craft" cutter machine
11:18 PM roycroft: there is a small drag knife available for one model
11:19 PM roycroft: and yes, it's pretty dumbed down
11:20 PM roycroft: which is why i'm asking for real information about them
11:22 PM roycroft: the only thing useful that i've learned about them is that they're pronounced like "cricket"
11:24 PM roycroft: oh, also, they have no ethernet port
11:24 PM roycroft: they just do usb and bluetooth, which sucks
11:24 PM roycroft: but i could live with that if the things work
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: <$200 usd
11:25 PM roycroft: the one that cuts vinyl is US$400
11:25 PM roycroft: but that's still pretty cheap, if it works
11:26 PM CaptHindsight: huh I was thinking CRY - CUT
11:26 PM roycroft: that's what i thought
11:26 PM roycroft: but we are wrong
11:27 PM CaptHindsight: well it's a name so no right no wrong
11:27 PM roycroft: unfortunately, learning how to pronounce the thing does not enlighten one on whether it works or not
11:27 PM CaptHindsight: don't you love people that say your name wrong and tell you how your name should be pronounced
11:27 PM roycroft: the right way to pronounce a name is how the person who has the name pronounces it
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: not according to these people
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: the epitome of arrogance
11:44 PM roycroft: what people like that think does not matter
11:57 PM skunkworks: we have some knife cutters at work.. If I waited until tuesday and drew up the cad files - they would cut them for me. They do a really good job. I had them cut some ptfe sheets about 1/16 thick. It was spot on.
11:57 PM skunkworks: but I am impatient..
11:58 PM skunkworks: and have about 90% of the seals cut