#linuxcnc Logs

Sep 04 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:23 AM Deejay: moin
02:11 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: lots of steel
02:11 AM Loetmichel: or even better: permalloy
02:12 AM Loetmichel: if possible: no sudden changes in wall thickness
04:49 AM JT-Cave: mornign
04:51 AM XXCoder: mornign
06:12 AM Tom_L: morning
06:12 AM XXCoder: morning
06:13 AM JT-Cave: 23:11 to wake up time for chickens
06:19 AM Tom_L: first test for the lights?
06:19 AM JT-Cave: no, not installed yet
06:19 AM JT-Cave: need to work a bit more on the code
06:39 AM beachbumpete1: Morning
08:31 AM roycroft: it's friday, and it's a holiday weekend in the usa!
08:51 AM JT-Cave: damn the apa102 string won't light up now...
02:07 PM htasta: hi frens
02:39 PM roycroft: it is quiet here today - are folks taking a four day weekend?
02:39 PM roycroft: or just working really hard to make up for having monday off?
02:40 PM htasta: why is monday off?
02:40 PM roycroft: it's labor day in the usa
02:41 PM htasta: aaaaah, thats 1st of may here
02:41 PM roycroft: that's may day here :)
02:41 PM roycroft: also international workers' day
02:43 PM roycroft: labor day is the end of the last weekend of tourist season
02:43 PM roycroft: and traditionally, the last day men can wear white shoes until memorial day (last monday of may)
02:44 PM htasta: lol ok, weird :D
02:44 PM htasta: good thing I don't wear any shoes at all hahahah
03:04 PM Deejay: gn8
03:06 PM roycroft: grr
03:06 PM roycroft: i need like 9" of 1" round bar and i can't find any
03:07 PM roycroft: i may have to run to the steel yard before it closes for the holiday weekend
03:19 PM roycroft: aah, i just found a piece
03:20 PM roycroft: beauty
03:20 PM roycroft: one less errand to run :)
03:21 PM jdh: wonder if I could buy any steel bar stock locally.
03:23 PM roycroft: there are two commercial steel yards here
03:23 PM roycroft: and a small selection of overpriced metals at the various hardware/home improvement stores
03:23 PM roycroft: i won't find 1" round bar there though
03:23 PM roycroft: only at the commercial places
04:23 PM andypugh: Last monday was a holiday in the UK
04:26 PM andypugh: roycroft: I tend to buy metal from eBay
04:28 PM andypugh: It’s obviously not the way that any sane person would set up the world, but if I want a 100mm length of 75mm EN8 I can have it in a few days for £20 delivered.
04:29 PM andypugh: And I can generally switch to something else while I wait.
04:32 PM andypugh: If I am in a _real_ hurry then I seem to have to buy a 6m length: https://www.fhbrundle.co.uk/products/300225__Round_Steel_Bar_25mm_Diameter_x_6_0_6_1m_Grade_S275 Luckily they don’t particularly mind cutting in to car-sized lenghts.
04:33 PM andypugh: (note that those two purchases are not similar, so ignore the pricing)
04:34 PM Tom_L: we don't have alot of steel surplus here but if i need anything i just go here: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/stock_index.php
04:35 PM andypugh: <jealous>
04:35 PM Tom_L: mostly aluminum since this is an aircraft town
04:35 PM Tom_L: 12" roundbar if you want :)
04:36 PM andypugh: Well, we have this wierd little shop: https://goo.gl/maps/NEDmu3eXcUwqaDuy9
04:36 PM andypugh: Open saturday too. I should use them more often.
04:37 PM Tom_L: storefront alloy shopping :)
04:37 PM andypugh: I wonder how close they are to their floor loading limits?
04:37 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/local_stock/8.jpg
04:38 PM Tom_L: you might need another lathe for some of that
04:38 PM roycroft: ebay sellers usually don't deliver same day
04:39 PM roycroft: i need this bar stock this weekend
04:39 PM andypugh: Tom_L: I do have a bigger lathe than the Holbrook: https://photos.app.goo.gl/s3acghWnkS8dNfd59
04:39 PM roycroft: but as i said a while ago, i found some :)
04:39 PM roycroft: it was buried under some square tubing, for some reason
04:40 PM Tom_L: is that the one you did that 'bowl' on?
04:40 PM Tom_L: wood form for metal shaping
04:40 PM roycroft: i tend to keep my metals segregated
04:41 PM andypugh: Ah, no, I rarely use that one. It’s 200 miles away and rather awkward
04:41 PM roycroft: which is why i could not find this rod for a while
04:41 PM Tom_L: the place i got steel from sold out because he retired
04:41 PM Tom_L: oh
04:41 PM * roycroft needs to sack the person who put it away in the wrong place, but realises that he's almost certainly the one who did so, and can't afford to sack himself
04:41 PM Eric__: I wish there was a decent place to buy steel around here. There is a company that will deliver
04:42 PM roycroft: my usual steel yard is close to my house, and what i really like about them is that they don't price discriminate against small buyers
04:42 PM Eric__: I got spoiled in Utah
04:42 PM Tom_L: we have a steel supply but it's mostly construction etc types
04:42 PM andypugh: For examle the cross-slide is 6 tpi. and the scale on it it about 1.5” diameter with mayve 20 marks. Basically the only way to use it is with a sial indicaror on the slide.
04:42 PM roycroft: the other one seriously does so
04:43 PM roycroft: a 10' length of 1" x 0.125" square tubing, for example, costs about $40 there
04:43 PM Tom_L: i mounted a dial to mine because it's so worn i don't trust the hand dials
04:43 PM roycroft: but 10 10' lenghts would cost about $20 each
04:43 PM roycroft: my usual place charges the same, no matter what the quantity, unless they have to do a cut, in which case they charge $3 for the cut
04:44 PM roycroft: except they'll cut a 20' length in half for free
04:44 PM roycroft: now if you want that 20' length in a 15' and a 5' it costs $3
04:44 PM roycroft: but two 10' pieces is free
04:49 PM veegee: Damn, I'm glad the late fee for uhaul rental isn't in the contract
04:49 PM veegee: I'm going to be 1 day late, so I'm fine with paying for the extra day
04:49 PM veegee: But they're like, it may be a few hundred dollars LOL
04:50 PM veegee: and it's a "system generated" late fee
04:50 PM veegee: good luck charging the card when I block the transaction
04:55 PM andypugh: Under some interpretations of the law, in some jurisdctions, you are now guilty of vehcle theft. (you have a vehicle without the owners permission)
05:07 PM veegee: They won't even report that. When it's returned, they'll attempt to charge the card
05:07 PM veegee: Can't really report theft when the vehicle is right there in your parking lot and they have the keys
05:41 PM veegee: uhaul's 26 ft trucks are trash. No lift gate, and the deck is too low, so the bed isn't flat to accommodate the rear wheels. Makes maneuvering a pallet a pain in the ass. Also they're not actually 26 ft, only the top part which hangs over the cabin is 26 ft.
05:41 PM veegee: Penske's trucks are so much better
06:03 PM XXCoder: never ever buy used uhaul unless youre ready to swap engine and tranmission
06:03 PM XXCoder: uhaul uses cheapest shops for repairs while penske has centerized repair area
06:11 PM htasta: andypugh: the manual tool changer is working now with the ini path coming from linuxcnc. but I had to limit the path to 200 characters. the issue that was solved with the 1000 tools fix.
06:11 PM htasta: https://i.imgur.com/N6TqcJY.png
06:12 PM htasta: I got a warning for translation stuff though, do you happen to know how translations work? I encapsulated all strings in _() but I have no idea how that works in python
06:13 PM Tom_L: what generated that tool change dialog?
06:13 PM Tom_L: it looks different
06:13 PM htasta: I did :D
06:13 PM Tom_L: nice
06:13 PM Tom_L: you rewrote the manualtoolchange comp?
06:13 PM andypugh: htasta: I am just learning about translations.
06:14 PM htasta: I ran a program with several tools and when it requested tool #23 I had no idea which one it is so I thought it would be good to get some more info
06:14 PM Tom_L: i like that
06:15 PM htasta: andypugh: who should I ask about that? I guess I have to fix that compiler warning before it can be merged
06:15 PM andypugh: I _suspect_ that you need to import gettext in the Pythin, but that is a pure guess.
06:16 PM andypugh: In C gettext is a macro that converts _(“ into a call to gettext
06:16 PM htasta: gettext is imported but I guess I have to read some docs on how it works :D
06:16 PM andypugh: I think so.
06:16 PM andypugh: When you do. tell me how it works. My brain is nearly full.
06:17 PM htasta: hehehehhehe
06:17 PM htasta: ok will do :D
06:17 PM htasta: aight, im off to bed, gn8
06:18 PM andypugh: (I have spent seeks trying to make halcompile multilingual, and work out how to compile chinese pdf docs from asciidoc. The latter one is not trivial when I can’t even work out which document I am looking at in the PDF)
06:33 PM veegee: XXCoder I would never buy any uhaul equipment. I didn't even know they sold those. I was only talking about renting
06:33 PM XXCoder: im talking about used trucks
06:33 PM XXCoder: but yeah
06:33 PM XXCoder: please dont lol
06:33 PM veegee: This week was so tough physically. Every muscle in my body hurts from helping the guy clear out his warehouse
06:33 PM veegee: But god damn I got so much free stuff
06:34 PM XXCoder: :)
06:35 PM veegee: 2 air compressors, industrial paint mixing station full of paint, so much structural steel, huge industrial racks, band saw, radial arm saw, 10ft shear, 12ft brake, lots of induction motors, brand new industrial garage door opener
06:35 PM veegee: can't even remember the rest
06:38 PM XXCoder: crazy. got room?
06:38 PM veegee: yes, now that I have the industrial racks
06:38 PM veegee: more than enough room in a 3,000 sq ft unit
06:38 PM XXCoder: nice
06:38 PM XXCoder: you run a shop right?
06:39 PM XXCoder: company or single person, yourself?
06:39 PM veegee: purely hobby
06:39 PM veegee: sharing with a friend
06:39 PM XXCoder: ahh ok
06:39 PM XXCoder: i think I remember now
06:39 PM XXCoder: you had issue with semi loading area before right?
06:39 PM XXCoder: and office was a mess?
06:39 PM veegee: yeah
06:39 PM veegee: and I'm the one that loves messing with roycroft
06:40 PM veegee: Just been away from computer all week doing the physical work 18 hours/day
06:40 PM veegee: I made a little display like in the simpsons intro "4 days since last accident" but instead shows "roycroft's slide way oil usage meter"
06:41 PM veegee: since he was so anal about the few extra mL that oozes out of the channels since I over oil the slide ways
06:41 PM veegee: and how it's "so bad for the environment and such a waste"
06:42 PM veegee: So every time I pump the central oiling lever, I push a button to increment the display lol
06:42 PM XXCoder: isnt big bmachine way poils expensive?
06:42 PM veegee: and I'll measure the amount of oil that has drained to the area in the base of the machine
06:42 PM veegee: LOL no
06:42 PM veegee: it's cheaper than automotive crankcase oil
06:43 PM XXCoder: some machine types dont like over-oiling
06:43 PM veegee: it has a much less stressful and violent life than an internal combustion engine
06:43 PM veegee: this is a vertical mill. It's impossible to over oil it
06:43 PM XXCoder: clickspring made special oil thing that can make tiny droplets for gear oiling
06:43 PM veegee: excess just drips down the side
06:43 PM XXCoder: because if more than that it'll gather dust and cause issues
06:43 PM XXCoder: lol ok
06:44 PM veegee: no, my mill and lathe slide ways are impossible to over oil
06:44 PM veegee: I bet the amount of oil I "wasted" is less than the environmental impact of his car
06:44 PM veegee: like an order of magnitude less
06:45 PM XXCoder: i uppose
06:45 PM veegee: we're talking about a few extra _drops_ wasted every day
06:45 PM veegee: his car probably leaks more than htat
06:45 PM veegee: and this is not contaminated, no combustion byproducts. Just clean metal chips
06:45 PM XXCoder: im quite envormental, but i also know reality, i have seen cars leaking oil out of tailpipe with "save the whales" sticker
06:46 PM XXCoder: (man that was while ago)
06:48 PM andypugh: XXCoder: It probably wasn’t whale oil.
06:48 PM XXCoder: yeah, didnt say it was?
06:48 PM Tom_L: the jensen i worked on had whale oil in the transmission
06:48 PM CaptHindsight: looking at mods to paintballs guns to fire pointed rounds vs balls
06:48 PM Tom_L: it smelled horrible
06:48 PM Rab: <andypugh> Tom_L: I do have a bigger lathe than the Holbrook: https://photos.app.goo.gl/s3acghWnkS8dNfd59
06:48 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: ugh really?
06:48 PM CaptHindsight: polymer projectiles
06:49 PM andypugh: (Discovering mineral oil was an environmental disaster in some ways, but might have saved the whales, for a long time they provided most of the oil)
06:49 PM Rab: andypugh, at first I thought I was looking at a fairly stout lathe mounted on a cart with pneumatic tires.
06:49 PM XXCoder: andy yeah. thats why im saying that need to think though saving evorment.
06:50 PM XXCoder: plastic microparcles is a growing problem, since it can kill life in ocean
06:50 PM andypugh: Rab: That’s jusy my dads abandoned caravan mpver project.
06:50 PM XXCoder: but we need plastic for basically everything
06:51 PM andypugh: Don’t wash your fleece.
06:51 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, we never needed it before we had it
06:51 PM andypugh: (they hardly need washing, and they shed a lot of fibres)
06:51 PM CaptHindsight: paper bags at the stores
06:51 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, in today's news: https://hackaday.com/2020/09/04/approaching-the-drop-location-seeds-away/
06:52 PM Rab: Unfortunately they invested their ingenuity in reinventing a drone out of laser cut plywood, instead of a method for firing seed balls.
06:53 PM XXCoder: nice rab, saw some projects like that and its lovely
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: heh yeah, I'm working on pod designs
06:53 PM XXCoder: i saw one where couple turned barren land into nice forest after decade of hobby work
06:53 PM CaptHindsight: compressed air launchers are not an issue
06:53 PM XXCoder: its very large area
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: targeting >100K tree seeds plated per day
06:54 PM XXCoder: anpother one https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7099537/Brazilian-couple-spends-20-years-planting-trees-barren-ranch-create-paradise-animals.html
06:54 PM CaptHindsight: 100K - 1 million pods
06:55 PM CaptHindsight: how to place a 2mm dia seed just 2mm below the surface
06:55 PM CaptHindsight: along with nutrients
06:56 PM CaptHindsight: how to manufacture 100k-500k pods/day
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: and logistics between factory and field
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: at the same these growers are mapping out fields to few cm resolution
06:58 PM CaptHindsight: so they can send drones back over the plants later, they know the location of every tree in the forest
06:58 PM CaptHindsight: as it grows
06:58 PM Tom_L: rfid implant
06:58 PM Tom_L: :)
07:00 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: Production cost: 1961,75 US$ what does that meran?
07:01 PM CaptHindsight: $1961.75 ?
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: meran/mean
07:08 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, not my project.
07:09 PM Rab: But I assume it's their cost to build the drone.
07:11 PM CaptHindsight: the number format is weird
07:11 PM XXCoder: euro uses , as usa uses . for
07:11 PM XXCoder: and . where usa uses ,
07:11 PM XXCoder: annoying
07:11 PM CaptHindsight: I'm seeing more commas vs periods used in prices
07:12 PM veegee: Got myself a nice dial caliper with fractional inches
07:12 PM veegee: Now need to get a metric one
07:12 PM CaptHindsight: metric inches
07:13 PM veegee: I use mine mostly to measure hex bolt head sizes
07:13 PM veegee: so fractional is the only one I need
07:13 PM Eric__: I have a fractional one, wish I hadn't bought it
07:13 PM veegee: Eric__ why?
07:13 PM XXCoder: inches is already metric. usa defined inch as so and so mm
07:13 PM Eric__: ain't got time for cheap tools
07:14 PM veegee: Actually mine is the starrett 1202F https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001LF3CG2
07:14 PM veegee: It's not a cheap tool
07:14 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, this is the outfit, so while the description is well-written english I guess they use a different currency format: https://aeracoop.net/
07:16 PM Rab: I guess they're in Spain?
07:16 PM CaptHindsight: yeah found them
07:17 PM CaptHindsight: when did the Europeans drop the decimal point in favor of the comma for numbers?
07:17 PM veegee: when we all started hating them
07:17 PM veegee: hating the Europeans, that is
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: I just started seeing this in the past year or so
07:18 PM veegee: As much as I hate imperial units, the foot is very convenient
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: ~300mm
07:18 PM veegee: well yeah I know
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: i just got used to the conversions
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: so it makes no matter to me
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: I'm more miffed by the comma taking the place of the decimal point
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: since commas are used between every three integers
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: it's too easy to make typos
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: why would a linux PC be trying to make netbios broadcasts?
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: no SAMBA installed
07:21 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I don't believe this is a new phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator#Countries_using_decimal_comma
07:22 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: might be my vision and just didn't notice comma vs decimal
07:22 PM Rab: Tables of logarithms prepared by John Napier in 1614 and 1619 used the period (full stop) as the decimal separator, which was then adopted by Henry Briggs in his influential 17th century work.
07:22 PM Rab: In France, the full stop was already in use in printing to make Roman numerals more readable, so the comma was chosen.
07:23 PM Rab: So it's the fault of the French, but not within our lifetimes.
07:25 PM Rab: And a matter of some debate during British metrication in the late '60s; if they'd swung with the comma, the metric/customary divide would be even more annoying.
07:26 PM Rab: veegee would be raging out about yanks using decimal separators.
07:26 PM Rab: (period)
07:26 PM veegee: Yup, "," should only be used as a thousands separator
07:27 PM Rab: Haha: "Space, the internationally recommended thousands separator"
07:27 PM veegee: they tried to make us use spaces in school
07:27 PM veegee: lol! yeah
07:27 PM veegee: and I tried it out for a while but it's stupid
07:27 PM Rab: Since 2003,[28] the use of spaces as separators (for example: 20000 and 1000000 for "twenty thousand" and "one million") has been officially endorsed by SI/ISO 31-0 standard,[29] as well as by the International Bureau of Weights and Measures and the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC),[30][31] the American Medical Association's widely followed AMA Manual of Style, and the
07:27 PM veegee: the comma gives the number some continuity as a single entity
07:27 PM Rab: Metrication Board, among others.
07:28 PM veegee: yeah they didn't think it through
07:28 PM veegee: I'd rather use '.' than spaces
07:28 PM Rab: Bwahahaha, the spaces didn't copy/paste with the rest of the numbers. Classic!
07:28 PM veegee: or apostrophe like C++
07:29 PM veegee: spaces is idiotic
07:29 PM veegee: AMA shouldn't be allowed to set any standard
07:29 PM CaptHindsight: maybe we'll see calculator with commas now for <1 and >0
07:29 PM veegee: My HP 50G has it
07:30 PM veegee: my HP Prime also has it but its RPN implementation is trash so I don't use that calculator
07:30 PM veegee: 50G is the last of the true RPN engineering calculators
07:30 PM Rab: Hmm, because Wikipedia formatted the spaces like this (for "20 000"): 20<span style="margin-left:.25em;">000</span>
07:32 PM Rab: I guess they were trying to avoid browsers treating space as ...whitespace.
07:33 PM Rab: Suddenly I'm not so eager to climb aboard the ISO 31-0 train.
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: here's an example, a power supply has an output of 13.8V or 13,8V?
07:34 PM Rab: Fortunately it's been superseded by ISO 80000-1!
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: I can see the latter as 13V and 8V
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: do to poor formating
07:39 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I have seen that convention used in electronics for a very long time. Perhaps you've seen a Phoenix Contact terminal block; gaze upon their part number formatting and despair: https://www.phoenixcontact.com/online/portal/us?uri=pxc-oc-itemdetail:pid=1803617&library=usen&pdfmode=direct&pdflanguage=en
07:40 PM Rab: Of course 3,81 indicates a metric equivalent to .15 inches.
07:42 PM Rab: Occasionally the comma pops up in foreign-language schematics and datasheets, usually German and Russian that I've seen.
07:43 PM roycroft: we need a standard iso format for everything visual like that, and start embedding locale chips in people's brains so that what they see gets translated to the format they expect
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: the decimal really shows you were <1 starts
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: the comma if not formatted correctly is just a mess
07:52 PM Rab: Obviously there is potential difficulty in searching a part number like "MC 1,5/ 6-ST-3,81" which includes slashes, commas, and whitespace. Fortunately Phoenix includes a part number alias (for that part, 1803617). Unfortunately it seems to be semi-random: the alias for e.g. a 6-pin part does not decode in any way that lets you guess the P/N for e.g. a 7-pin part of the same series. I'm not a
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: $1,200.385
07:52 PM Rab: huge fan of designing with Phoenix parts, for this sole reason.
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: 1,200 dollar and .385 dollar
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: vs 1,200,385
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: what if you are dealing with numbers with more than 2 places to right of the decimal
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: idiots won't be able to clearly convey the info
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: with a decimal I know where 1 and 1/10 are
07:55 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: Weight per Piece (excluding packing) 4.700 g vs 4,700 g
07:56 PM roycroft: that could definitely affect shipping rates
07:57 PM CaptHindsight: if this stays with currency and we all decide to round to the nearest 1/100th fine
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: I am 100,000 percent sure
08:22 PM robotustra: what a precision
08:29 PM roycroft: we could adopt the japanese currency model
08:30 PM roycroft: make the value of the basic currency unit so low that there is no need for decimals at all - everything costs more than the basic unit
08:33 PM Tom_L: you mean the penny?
08:35 PM roycroft: their basic unit is the yen
08:35 PM roycroft: ours is the dollar
08:35 PM roycroft: their yen is worth rough one of our cents
08:39 PM roycroft: japan used to have fractional coinage - the rin and the sen - but currently the smallest value coin is 1 yen
08:40 PM XXCoder: usa penny need 1.56 penny to make
08:40 PM roycroft: the smallest banknote is 1000 yen
08:40 PM roycroft: yeah, but the melt value of corrent 1 cent coins is less than 1 cent
08:40 PM roycroft: we got rid of the copper in 1982
08:41 PM roycroft: now our one cent coins are just copper plated
08:41 PM XXCoder: yeah but cost of making is still high
08:41 PM roycroft: yes
08:41 PM XXCoder: we dont need pennbies anymore
08:41 PM roycroft: we don't
08:42 PM roycroft: we should eliminate the 1 cent coin and the 1 dollar bill
08:42 PM roycroft: and circulate more 1 dollar coins
08:42 PM roycroft: they last way way way longer than a 1 dollar bill does
08:42 PM roycroft: and the treasury department could save a lot of money if it dropped the 1 dollar bill and made more 1 dollar coins
08:42 PM XXCoder: indeed
08:42 PM roycroft: but people in this country are weird
08:43 PM roycroft: they refuse to accept change
08:43 PM roycroft: even when the change is for the better
08:43 PM roycroft: and when there is no rational reason to stick to the old ways
08:44 PM roycroft: the two dollar bill is another example of how weird people are in this country
08:44 PM roycroft: people refuse to use them because a long time ago they were associated with the two dollar betting windows at racetracks, and got a stigma for being "gambling" money
08:45 PM roycroft: i'd be willing to be that 98% of our population have no idea why the $2 bill was shunned decades ago
08:45 PM roycroft: all they know is that they don't like them and won't use them
08:46 PM Tom_L: it came back for a while
08:46 PM roycroft: i think the proper thing to do is to go to church on sunday and put $2 bills in the collection plate :)
08:46 PM Tom_L: if it makes you feel better
08:47 PM Thorhian: Hey Tom_L I got my 6" Tegara vise today :)
08:50 PM Tom_L: you like it?
08:50 PM Thorhian: Oh yeah lol. Can't wait to use it. It's the 690V.
08:51 PM Thorhian: I'm currently working on the spindle mount for my Z axis, so I'm not too far away from my first chips. Hopefully this week.
08:51 PM Thorhian: coming week*
08:51 PM Tom_L: i'm waiting on parts
08:52 PM Thorhian: Same. For some reason Misumi only sent me my belt, but the pulleys weren't in the box. I kind of need those to drive the spindle lol
08:52 PM Tom_L: i need the spindle before i can get the pullies and belts
08:53 PM Thorhian: I ended up going with a 15mm wide Gates brand GT3 timing belt.
08:53 PM Tom_L: sdp-si doesn't carry GT3 but it looks good
08:53 PM Tom_L: i'll probably get the GT2 5mm pitch
08:53 PM Tom_L: 15mm wide
08:53 PM Tom_L: depends what fits when i get the main parts
08:54 PM Tom_L: where did you find GT3?
08:54 PM Thorhian: Noice. I took the oppurtunity since Misumi had lots of stuff, including the Gates branded stuff.
08:54 PM Thorhian: Misumi-USE
08:54 PM Thorhian: USA*
08:54 PM Thorhian: https://us.misumi-ec.com/
08:54 PM Tom_L: they have pullies and belts?
08:55 PM Thorhian: Timing belts, and a smaller selection of V-Belt stuff.
08:55 PM CaptHindsight: the whole decimal vs comma thing doesn't really bother me
08:56 PM CaptHindsight: just don't complain about errors due to it
08:56 PM Thorhian: https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/mech/M1000000000/ Tom_L
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: misumi has quite a bit but the prices tend to be higher than if you shop around
08:57 PM CaptHindsight: and they never have what i want available from stock, it's always long lead times
08:58 PM Thorhian: I have found them pretty useful for discovering different manufactures lol.
09:02 PM roycroft: i get to start fitting the end cap to my bench tomorrow - i'm almost to the point where i can attach the top pieces permanently
09:02 PM roycroft: possibly on monday i can do that
09:06 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: I like the $1 coin
09:06 PM CaptHindsight: I like to pay for things like bar tabs and lunch counter tabs with them
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: i slide them across the bar like an old tyme cowpoke ijn a western movie
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: "I done likestah pay me tab buckaroo" tip the hat, and mosey on
09:08 PM roycroft: it boggles my mind that people refuse to use the $1 coins
09:08 PM roycroft: the old silver dollars were big and heavy
09:08 PM roycroft: i can understand not wanting to fill one's pockets with them
09:08 PM roycroft: but modern $1 coins are about the size of a quarter
09:08 PM CaptHindsight: well maybe Susan B Anthony was a poor choice?
09:09 PM roycroft: why not?
09:09 PM CaptHindsight: mebe it should have been john Wayne
09:09 PM roycroft: but we've had several people on the $1 coin
09:09 PM roycroft: just a few years ago we finished a run of presidential $1 coins, where every non-living president was on one
09:09 PM CaptHindsight: the half dollars are rare as well
09:09 PM roycroft: they were made for general circulation a well as for collectors
09:10 PM roycroft: but people still did not use them
09:10 PM CaptHindsight: maybe too hard
09:10 PM roycroft: there were compaints about the susan b anthony dollar that it was too similar to a quarter
09:10 PM roycroft: so the mint changed the alloy to one that is quite yellow, and changed the shape of the coin, eliminating the reeding on the edge
09:11 PM roycroft: it cannot possibly be mistaken for a quarter, even in the dark
09:12 PM roycroft: canada got rid of the 1 cent coin and the 1 dollar bill
09:13 PM roycroft: when i used to hang out in bc, everyone used loonies and toonies
09:13 PM roycroft: i still have a big jar of them
09:13 PM roycroft: no because i collect them
09:13 PM roycroft: but because i haven't been to canada in a long time
09:13 PM roycroft: whenever we'd go up there i'd dump all my canadian money in the jar when i got home
09:14 PM roycroft: and tried to remember to bring it with me the next time we'd head across the border
09:15 PM roycroft: i suppose some of that canadian money is kind of collectable now - i still have a bunch of canadian $1 bills as well
09:21 PM CaptHindsight: i have buckets of change from all over Asia
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: i used to leave it in my carry on bags until it trips the pad you down nazis
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: pad/pat
09:23 PM CaptHindsight: comes in handy for stop-overs at airports
09:23 PM CaptHindsight: plane pulls up to the ramp and you can buy fresh fruits and similar from the carts
09:24 PM roycroft: i have not flown since a few days before 9/11
09:24 PM roycroft: not because i am afraid of flying/airports
09:24 PM Eric__: there are some people that can just go away and forget they ever heard of linuxcnc as far as I'm concerned
09:24 PM Eric__: why would you troll the mailing list for years on end?
09:24 PM roycroft: but because airport security has turned into a kabuki theatre, and i choose not to partake
09:24 PM CaptHindsight: hah, yeah
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: Eric__: HE can't even create a block diagram
09:25 PM CaptHindsight: I see him like a an autistic on the tech spectrum
09:25 PM Eric__: that would probably make setting up linuxcnc difficult
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: he has a ton of rules/principals yet seeks fame
09:26 PM Eric__: although a parport stepper system is dead easy
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC is not famous enough
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: like Linux is to Android
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: he has some bug up his butt about having some popular CNC control software
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: he's a looney
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: what gets me is that someone actually paid for his tech schooling
09:28 PM Eric__: got to get them out of the basement somehow
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: he's from the school of" newer makes it better
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: non x86 makes it better
09:29 PM roycroft: people who bully/troll are mentally stuck at about 6 years old when it comes to interacting with other people
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: popular makes it better
09:29 PM roycroft: generally i just pity them
09:29 PM roycroft: it sucks to be constrained like that
09:29 PM roycroft: much of the time it's not their fault
09:29 PM Eric__: I pity Andy because he works so hard and has to put up with this crap
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: i poked around to see if he could form some coherent CNC controller plan
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: nope
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: he knows he's an idiot
09:30 PM Eric__: I have thought about the issues of hardware split a lot. I always get back to lcnc being a really good model
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: it can be moved but who is going to write it?
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: and who will make all the tools for the GUI's?
09:31 PM Eric__: embedded hardware just moves too fast
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: he thinks that ere is some do-it-all GUI I guess
09:31 PM Eric__: it's also quite expensive in comparison to a pc
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: i just stopped following his thread
09:32 PM CaptHindsight: i could pop in from time to time and ask for the "block diagram"
09:32 PM CaptHindsight: that he will never be able to draw
09:32 PM Eric__: he does seem to have a few misunderstandings
09:32 PM CaptHindsight: why I know he can't do shit
09:32 PM * roycroft is several months behind on emc-users, if that's where the thread being discssed is taking place
09:33 PM CaptHindsight: and will just sit on the sidelines and whine vs ever write anything
09:33 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: yes, he wants a LCNC over USB and replace Mesa FPGA's with $1 STM32's
09:33 PM Eric__: there isn't enough programmer support as it is, porting a lot of code from computer to computer just isn't going to happen
09:34 PM CaptHindsight: he really seems more anti-MESA than anything
09:34 PM Eric__: we need to clone PCW, a national treasure
09:34 PM CaptHindsight: doing it over ethernet is not a problem and it's already mostly done
09:35 PM CaptHindsight: real time ethernet has been around for 20+ years
09:35 PM Eric__: I hope it's done, I have a ethernet mesa card I need to hook up any day now
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: I mean real time Ethernet for a CNC controller not using Mesa FPGA's
09:36 PM Eric__: what would you use other than mesa?
09:36 PM Eric__: pc does the gui and talks to a pc hosting a mesa
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: but you'd have to write some GUI's and decide where the center of it all goes vs just distributed control
09:37 PM CaptHindsight: the industrial PLC's already do it
09:37 PM CaptHindsight: but now he's bringimng up CANbus and similar
09:37 PM Eric__: I don't see a good reason on a cnc
09:37 PM CaptHindsight: he also could care less about closed loop
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: yeah the machine is big and $$$
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: he's thinking about some interconnected toys
09:39 PM Eric__: I was talking about the "interesting gui" thread that Andy started
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, that is actually from earlier threads
09:40 PM Eric__: the architecture thread really was a circle jerk of epic proportions
09:40 PM Eric__: I think John D. hasn't gotten a machine to work
09:40 PM CaptHindsight: yup
09:40 PM roycroft: i bought my mesa cards and gecko drives and stepper motors and the like about 3-4 years ago, and life has gotten in the way of my doing the cnc mill conversion that i want to do, but my impression then, and i think it's still valid, is that i could spend a bunch of time finding just the right system board that has low enough latency to fairly reliably drive the mill, at least on the day that i turn it all up, or i could get the inexpensive mesa
09:40 PM roycroft: so i did that
09:40 PM roycroft: 'cuz i don't like worrying
09:40 PM CaptHindsight: it just works
09:41 PM roycroft: so again, i've not seen this thread
09:41 PM CaptHindsight: he doesn't like the Rpi's or orange PI's
09:41 PM CaptHindsight: too chinese
09:41 PM Eric__: yeah, a mill is pretty easy
09:41 PM roycroft: but if someone is just dumping on mesa cards, the person can always go spend the time finding the right system board that can drive it through a parallel port
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: he just wants a stm32 for each axis and whatever you wish for the GUI device
09:42 PM roycroft: nowhere, no time, ever, have i gotten the slightest impression that mesa hardware is required to use linuxcnc
09:42 PM Eric__: I thought he bought some stmbls
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: connected via USB or CANbus
09:43 PM Eric__: Pico, mesa or parport
09:43 PM CaptHindsight: let him chime back in when he gets a working machine and makes some parts
09:43 PM roycroft: usb is not very realiable for real-time applications
09:43 PM Eric__: no
09:43 PM CaptHindsight: see if you bring that up he points to the simple stepper and mach
09:43 PM CaptHindsight: if you mention Mesa he says "stm32 for $1"
09:44 PM Eric__: heh
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: LPT is obsolete
09:44 PM roycroft: is this person willing to pay "linuxcnc" the price of a mach license?
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: don't even mention it please
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: ahhahahah
09:44 PM Eric__: one of his complaints is that mach runs faster on a parport though
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: he won't even code let alone pay for development
09:44 PM roycroft: again, is he willing to pay for linuxcnc to do that
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: he just is a big windbag
09:45 PM roycroft: even just the cost of a mach license?
09:45 PM roycroft: if not
09:45 PM roycroft: then stfu
09:45 PM roycroft: end of thread :)
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: happy to tell us all what do to as well, a management position
09:45 PM Eric__: almost got me riled up enough to figure out how to run a parport at mach speeds. Horribly non-portable though
09:46 PM CaptHindsight: then the idea quiets down for a few days until he pokes john D
09:46 PM roycroft: a simple procmail recipe can take care of that problem, eric__
09:46 PM roycroft: you don't have to ever see one of this troll's posts again
09:46 PM Eric__: gmail filter too
09:46 PM CaptHindsight: then those two go off on how I used to program my lego bricks to run blah blah blah and it almost worked!
09:46 PM Eric__: This thread took me by surprise
09:47 PM * roycroft , out of consideration for the rest of the channel, decides to not engage in a discussion about google products :)
09:47 PM Eric__: I usually delete ML threads just from the subject, but this one had been vaguely interesting
09:47 PM roycroft: i'll rephrase
09:48 PM roycroft: a simple mail filter can easily take care of that problem, eric__
09:48 PM CaptHindsight: andy posted this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgqCY3gUHcM&feature=youtu.be
09:48 PM Eric__: I almost always open Andy's ML emails
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: with QTPYVCP we can do lots of this
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: i have to finish the openCV plug-in
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: and conversational can be more friendly
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: it's mostly about a slick GUI
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: but if you're that superficial then maybe CNC is not for you
09:51 PM Eric__: I got || this close to filtering Gene's emails into the trash but he's so smart I couldn't do it
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: i just use my eyes to skip over what i feel like ignoring
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: at least gene gives us snippets of the past
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: and some wisdom
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: but he does go off topic often
09:52 PM Eric__: well, he stopped sending emails to the developer list about his problems with NFS and his email client
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: or misses the point
09:52 PM Eric__: so that helped
09:53 PM CaptHindsight: he's kind of like our old uncle that you tolerate things like this from, he's not toxic
09:54 PM Eric__: I never did talk him into writing a will
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: he means well, it's just awkward at time
09:54 PM roycroft: so like weird eccnentric uncle
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: i dealt with the morons at #reprap
09:54 PM roycroft: not drunk uncle at thanksgiving
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: I told you so
09:55 PM Eric__: he's a "what is he doing out there in the shed" uncle
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: reprap was more con men selling snake oil
09:55 PM roycroft: yes, but "we know he's not molesting young girls or torturing animals, but we really don't know what he's doing out there in the shed"
09:56 PM CaptHindsight: yes, and probably built the shed and the tools to build the shed
09:56 PM CaptHindsight: when electricity was marketed for things like Instant on Lighting
09:56 PM Eric__: the real problem is he knows so much you can bring up almost any subject and he has a many hours-long story about it
09:56 PM roycroft: *chuckle*
09:57 PM roycroft: i was watching a joe pieczynski video a while back about knurling
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: it keeps him going
09:57 PM Eric__: I used to think my mom knew him
09:57 PM roycroft: i don't remember why
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: his has to take care of a very fragile wife
09:58 PM roycroft: but anyway, he was discussing types of knurls, and at one point mentioned that clickspring did a rope knurl
09:58 PM Eric__: Gene is pretty fragile
09:58 PM roycroft: the comments about that were pretty funny
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: i think he's in his late 80's
09:58 PM roycroft: "you mean the guy made a tool to make a tool that's part of a tool to make a part?"
10:00 PM roycroft: i did not go rewatch that video, but remembered it as one of my favorite clickspring videos
10:00 PM roycroft: along with almost every other clickspring video
10:00 PM Eric__: I probably will not be converting cheap harbor freight lathes to cnc in my late '80s
10:01 PM roycroft: in my late 80s, should i make it to there, i anticipate i'll be more focused on breathing on a regular basis and peeing in the toilet and not elsewhere
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: gene doesn't mention local friends much
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: so we might be his social group
10:02 PM Eric__: my dad started getting senile at 85, I see no reason to expect better for me
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: mine made it to ~90
10:02 PM roycroft: for the records
10:02 PM roycroft: record
10:02 PM roycroft: i'm probably closer to my late 80s than most folks here
10:02 PM roycroft: and i'm not worried about either of those things yet
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: being 81 I'd say so :p
10:03 PM roycroft: nor do i anticipate worrying about those things for some time
10:03 PM Eric__: my dad died just before his 89th birthday, but his last 5 years were anything but pleasant
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: same with my mom
10:03 PM roycroft: i'm actually in my early 60s
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: last few years were like a return to childhood
10:03 PM roycroft: but most of the junk mail i get these days is for hearing aids and funeral plots
10:03 PM roycroft: not particularly encouraging
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: she lost track of who were were by 85
10:04 PM Eric__: that's hard
10:04 PM Eric__: I don't think that ever happened to my dad
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: dad just left one day at 89
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: didn't wake up
10:04 PM Eric__: my mother in law recently passed and she didn't know who anyone was for the last 2 years
10:05 PM roycroft: i'm kind of hoping that when my time comes, i just have a heart attack or something while i still have my mental faculties
10:05 PM roycroft: i think it would be better to go suddenly than to endure a prolonged decline
10:05 PM roycroft: but i really hope that day does not come for a long time
10:05 PM Eric__: my mother worked in her business the last day, fell asleep watching the olympics
10:06 PM Eric__: but she's the reason I want gene to have a will, it was a pain sorting things out
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, i was still finding bank accounts 5-6 years later
10:07 PM CaptHindsight: the banks don't try to help
10:07 PM CaptHindsight: had to go to court for one bank
10:08 PM Eric__: we had a shock when the hospital sent a $30k bill. Turned out they owed her a little
10:08 PM CaptHindsight: nice
10:09 PM Eric__: when we were going through her papers, we kept joking that we found a will and left everything to the other sibling
10:09 PM Eric__: Okay, maybe that was my joke
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: my dad cosigned me on accounts when i was a kid
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: didn't even know
10:10 PM Eric__: bank wasn't too bad, really
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: accounts >50 years old
10:10 PM Eric__: mom didn't have a lot of money
10:11 PM Eric__: in Virginia, you file a death certificate, they put an ad in the paper, and a year later all the property is yours
10:11 PM Eric__: in this case, split evenly between kids
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: in IL it can take 10 years for accounts to end up with the state
10:11 PM Eric__: but I wasted 2 years getting her house ready to sell
10:12 PM Eric__: because medicaid is set up to screw poor people
10:12 PM Eric__: Pennsylvania has bank laws like that, most states do.
10:13 PM Eric__: I guess I have an account I should close, because I never use it. I keep having to write letters
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/9VNCVBg a bit more sanding, spot putty and the 12 coats of primmer and paint
10:17 PM Eric__: I just saw a thread about how someone made a prius into a pickup
10:17 PM Eric__: didn't like the execution, but it could have been nice
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: sons car started as a 1 week repaint job
10:18 PM Eric__: haha
10:19 PM CaptHindsight: ended up being a complete restoration
10:19 PM CaptHindsight: for just an average car
10:19 PM Eric__: ain't that always the way it works
10:20 PM Eric__: I'm getting rid of projects as fast as hazardous waste laws allow
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: had metal cut from a rust free body in AZ
10:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/8bzzAiJ
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: yeah I'm going through everything here
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: clean up, toss out
10:21 PM Eric__: it's a lot of work
10:22 PM Eric__: lots easier to incrementally add to the pile over time
10:22 PM CaptHindsight: i have so much in parts and materials
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: linear servos, PC's, CNC machines, lasers, galvos on and on
10:23 PM Eric__: I know someone whose dad restored cars. Had enough money that he hired a full time mechanic
10:23 PM Eric__: getting rid of all of it was a big chore
10:23 PM CaptHindsight: I used to back in the 80's
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: now it's just a few daily drivers that get the full makeover
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: mine is 26 years old
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: 330K miles only
10:24 PM CaptHindsight: so it should outlast me or be banned fro burning gas before it wears out
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: i used to drive 1973 and earlier
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: but it's a shame to get them near salt in winter
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/xomcQTc i found this from 14 years ago, never used
10:26 PM CaptHindsight: has a 4:3 LCD
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: SS enclosure for PC, display, power supply and mesa cards
10:27 PM CaptHindsight: I'm off for the night... see you