Aug 16 2020
02:08 AM CaptHindsight: you kids make me laugh, Hitler, Himmler, gerbils/Goebbels
02:14 AM XXCoder: am I missing some text?
02:14 AM XXCoder: I only see vee's out of blue comment
02:14 AM CaptHindsight: yes random nazi
02:14 AM CaptHindsight: random nazi is always funny
02:14 AM XXCoder: thats what I meant. vee's single comment about hitler and all
02:14 AM CaptHindsight: was out earlier when Hitler and Stalin came up, history is fun
02:14 AM CaptHindsight: trump will be funny in 30 years
02:40 AM Deejay: moin
05:20 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:30 AM Tom_itx: morning
06:30 AM JT-Cave: yo
06:43 AM Tom_itx: 68F / 91 hi today
06:53 AM _unreal_: 80 outside right now
07:28 AM tiwake: anyone do powder coating before?
07:28 AM tiwake: bought a very slightly used kit that came with a bunch of powders yesterday
07:28 AM tiwake: erm, a few days ago
07:37 AM JT-Cave: I powder coat all the time
07:41 AM tiwake: JT-Cave: was thinking about using my oven for a couple test things and getting a dedicated oven later... does the baking process leave layers of residue in the oven?
07:42 AM JT-Cave: no, it's clean
07:42 AM tiwake: so no problem for baking apple pies later... heh
07:42 AM JT-Cave: I use a kiln to powder coat with
07:42 AM JT-Cave: depends on the apples I guess
07:44 AM tiwake: what about gas ovens?
07:44 AM tiwake: "don't use gas" and other silly things
07:44 AM JT-Cave: dunno, never used a gas oven for powder coat
07:45 AM tiwake: after spraying how loose is the powder before it gets baked on?
07:45 AM JT-Cave: you can wipe it off but it won't fall off
07:46 AM tiwake: will a fan blow it off?
07:46 AM JT-Cave: give it a try
07:46 AM tiwake: "just do it" he says
07:47 AM tiwake: JT-Cave: what about mixing colors?
07:47 AM JT-Cave: mixing as in?
07:48 AM tiwake: I have red and blue, mix to try to get purple... or something
07:48 AM JT-Cave: I don't think that works but you can try and see
07:48 AM tiwake: would it be more like glitter then?
07:49 AM tiwake: so you haven't tried it
07:49 AM JT-Cave: my process is blast to clean metal, out gas about 30-40°F for 25 minutes, cool, coat, then cure
07:49 AM JT-Cave: no I've never mixed any powder on purpose
07:50 AM tiwake: what about adding glitter to get sparkly powdercoat?
07:50 AM JT-Cave: 30°F - 40°F above cure temperature
07:50 AM JT-Cave: I've done clear over base coat for candy apple
07:51 AM tiwake: what brand powder do you use?
07:52 AM tiwake: eastwood?
07:52 AM JT-Cave: I have some eastwood
07:53 AM JT-Cave: some columbia coatings, I'd have to go look at what all I have
07:55 AM JT-Cave: my oven is set to ramp up slowly to cure temperature then hold that for a set time
07:58 AM tiwake: you bought a kiln? which?
07:58 AM JT-Cave: buddy gave it to me
07:59 AM JT-Cave: if your going to spend money just build a pc oven
07:59 AM tiwake: politically correct oven?
08:40 AM _unreal_: politically correct oven lol
09:52 AM Tom_itx: i'd offer you my toaster oven but it's not big enough for that and the ramp times etc wouldn't be for powdercoat
09:52 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
09:52 AM Tom_L: i don't use it much anymore
10:17 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: make toast... DUH
10:17 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: or a quiche
11:12 AM roycroft: another day, another heat advisory
11:17 AM JT-Shop: roycroft, what are you building?
11:27 AM roycroft: i'm building a new hand tool workbench
11:28 AM jymmmm: So, because everyone is using their AC's, PG&E has decided to do rolling blackouts for the entire state that it services. Luckily, the city on Tuesday has a warning of 112F... OH JOY
11:29 AM JT-Shop: got any photos of the project?
11:29 AM roycroft: yeah, they haven't done that since the fake crisis in 2001 when enron intentionally shut down power plants to drive up prices
11:29 AM roycroft: not yet, jt-shop
11:29 AM roycroft: i'm not big on doing that stuff
11:29 AM roycroft: but i'll take some as it progresses, or at least when it's finished
11:29 AM jymmmm: My gen can NOT run the HVAC, and home depot is out of stock of cheap window units
11:30 AM roycroft: i bought a new window ac unit for my office a few weeks ago
11:30 AM roycroft: the old one was just not working well any more
11:30 AM roycroft: so my office is nice and cool
11:30 AM Tom_L: jymmmm, ice bucket brigade
11:30 AM roycroft: and i have the ac in my garage shop running
11:30 AM roycroft: i got up at dawn to turn it on again today
11:30 AM JT-Shop: you following any plans or just winging it?
11:30 AM roycroft: i'm going to be able to work in the garage shop all day today without opening the big door, so it should stay tolerable
11:30 AM roycroft: jt-shop: i've spent dozens of hours working on the plans
11:31 AM roycroft: i'm building a split roubo bench, with vise hardware from benchcrafted
11:31 AM roycroft: it's very similar to matt estlea's bench, if you're familiar with him
11:31 AM JT-Shop: not familiar with him
11:32 AM roycroft: https://mattestlea.com/product/roubo-workbench-plans/
11:32 AM roycroft: he sells plans for his bench
11:32 AM roycroft: i bought them, more to support him than because i needed them
11:32 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: I have a lil 2ft frig with a itty bitty freezer in it. I'm wondering if I can shove a big ass coil of tubing in there and run to the ghettoAC ?
11:33 AM roycroft: i still do most of my woodworking in american customary units
11:33 AM roycroft: converting metric to american customary is a lot of work
11:33 AM roycroft: it was faster to just draw up plans from scratch
11:33 AM roycroft: https://www.benchcrafted.com/glide
11:33 AM roycroft: the leg vise
11:33 AM roycroft: https://www.benchcrafted.com/crisscross
11:33 AM roycroft: and its support
11:34 AM roycroft: https://www.benchcrafted.com/tailvise
11:34 AM roycroft: the tail vise
11:34 AM roycroft: i got the cast versions of the vise wheels, not the machined/polished versions
11:34 AM JT-Shop: nice
11:34 AM roycroft: i like the look better, and i like the rough surface - it makes for a good grip
11:34 AM roycroft: and i like the price
11:35 AM roycroft: i've been wanting to build a bench of this quality for over 40 years
11:35 AM roycroft: so yeah, i'm going all out and it's going to be really nice when it's done
11:36 AM JT-Shop: yeah that's going to be a nice bench for sure
11:36 AM roycroft: and although it was a lot of extra work, i decided to make square dog holes, not round
11:36 AM roycroft: they turned out brilliantly
11:37 AM roycroft: jt-shop: when i plane or chisel i find i waste almost as much energy moving the bench as performing the work
11:37 AM roycroft: this bench should be so solid that it won't move at all
11:37 AM roycroft: anyway, today is a big day - i get to start on the actual joinery, finally
11:38 AM roycroft: 92+ hours into the project (not counting design time)
11:42 AM JT-Shop: I'm tired just thinking of all that work
11:45 AM roycroft: i'm tired of working on it
11:45 AM Deejay: too much work makes you ill and sick. so stop working and start chilling!
11:46 AM roycroft: but shifting to the joinery phase means i'm done with the big, heavy brute force part (mostly) and down to the fiddly parts
11:46 AM roycroft: starting today it's like a whole new project
11:46 AM JT-Shop: cool
11:46 AM roycroft: also, yesterday i did the final thicknessing of the bench top pieces
11:46 AM roycroft: they're laminated, and were really a mess due to all the glue and slight unevenness
11:47 AM roycroft: but now the two pieces are nice and smooth and beautiful
11:47 AM roycroft: and a real inspiration whenever i look at them
11:48 AM roycroft: the slabs are sitting on sawhorses, at almost the exact height of the final bench, and with the proper gap between them, so it looks like the final product
11:48 AM roycroft: i'm getting behind on other things, though, so i'm starting to get anxious to finish this up
11:48 AM jymmmm: slabs, as in timber?
11:49 AM roycroft: yesterday marked one month working on it
11:49 AM roycroft: and i anticipate i have another month to go
11:51 AM roycroft: jymmmm: yes, the bench top is in two pieces, each 4-1/2" thick
11:51 AM roycroft: i glued up ash boards on edge to make them
11:51 AM jymmmm: WOW, no wonder you were talking about the planer solo
11:51 AM roycroft: the pieces are 12-1/2" wide and ~7' long
11:51 AM roycroft: yeah
11:52 AM roycroft: like i said, they weigh 50-60kg each
11:52 AM roycroft: very heavy
11:52 AM roycroft: ash is a pretty dense wood
11:52 AM jymmmm: I'd make a harvest bench out of that instead =)
11:52 AM jymmmm: err... harvst table
11:53 AM roycroft: i'm trying to think of some small projects that will sell easily and can be made out of ash
11:53 AM roycroft: i have a *lot* of cutoffs
11:53 AM roycroft: but i have to finish the bench first
11:54 AM jymmmm: cutting boards?
11:55 AM roycroft: ash is not a great wood for cutting boards
11:55 AM jymmmm: just an idea
11:55 AM roycroft: it's an open pore wood - somewhat similar to oak
11:55 AM jymmmm: how long are these cutoffs?
11:55 AM roycroft: some are 7' long
11:55 AM roycroft: some are a few inches long
11:55 AM roycroft: and they vary in width and thickness
11:56 AM jymmmm: Make some tables that are narrow, for like behind the couch, or the ends of the couch
11:56 AM jymmmm: sideboard tables?
11:56 AM roycroft: i did not use furniture quality white ash for this - for a workbench i decided that mixed ash would be fine, which includes some heartwood
11:56 AM jymmmm: I think that's what they are called
11:57 AM roycroft: i got enough white ash out of it that the bench will look really nice, but some of the laminates in the bench top are mostly heartwood, so rather dark and boring
11:57 AM roycroft: i can't really use the heartwood cutoffs for products that i can sell
11:58 AM jymmmm: why not?
11:58 AM roycroft: but i can use them to make handplanes and shop jigs/fixtures
11:58 AM roycroft: because the heartwood is not particularly attractive
11:58 AM roycroft: it's darker, and does not show the grain well
11:58 AM jymmmm: epoxy? aka preserved wood
11:58 AM jymmmm: oh, you would be surprised at what ppl like
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: beauty is in the eye of the beholder
11:59 AM roycroft: i have to like it too if i'm going to put my name on it :)
11:59 AM jymmmm: IT's what THEY like, not what YOU are fond of
11:59 AM roycroft: but i know what you're saying
12:00 PM jymmmm: roycroft: IF you like chocolate ice cream, doens't mean others do too
12:00 PM roycroft: if i have a chance i'll take some pics of the bench top later today
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: repackage wood chips as bedding materials for the soon to be homeless
12:00 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Got 100VDC???
12:01 PM roycroft: even it is not complete yet though - the way i'm building it the outermost laminates won't be installed until the bench top is set on the base
12:01 PM roycroft: i have 14 giant yard bags full of wood chips from the machining operations
12:01 PM roycroft: i just found someone who will take them for free for mulch
12:02 PM roycroft: i used a bunch for mulch here, but ran out of stuff to mulch, so i started bagging the stuff
12:02 PM jymmmm: roycroft: repackage them into 10lb bags for animal bedding
12:03 PM jymmmm: or coposting toilets
12:03 PM roycroft: well i can throw all 14 bags in my pickup and drop them off
12:03 PM jymmmm: composting
12:03 PM roycroft: that takes care of the problem quickly
12:03 PM roycroft: we're still a month from when the rainy season starts, but i want them gone before it starts raining - they're just sitting in my back yard right now
12:03 PM CaptHindsight: make your own artisanal paper products
12:03 PM jymmmm: ah
12:04 PM roycroft: anyway, i should probably get started - it's 10:00 already, and i want to get a good 10 hours of work in today
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: you could but there is not much cooling capacity
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: you could cool a water pad or similar
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: what temp is your well water? You could circulate that through a cooling pad as well
12:22 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: city water, and not gonna circulate thru the septic tank or leevh lines =)
12:25 PM CaptHindsight: swap cooling pads through the fridge to bed or a vest
12:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/your-hair-can-crack-steel-when-it-hits-right-spot
01:10 PM roycroft: ok, i took some quick pics
01:10 PM roycroft: https://www.roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Top.jpeg
01:10 PM roycroft: that combination square is 3' long, for reference
01:10 PM roycroft: https://www.roycroft.us/Bench/Base-Components.jpeg
01:10 PM roycroft: https://www.roycroft.us/Bench/Bench-Legs.jpeg
01:16 PM jymmmm: hair crack? That's SOOOO 2000's
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: what brands of power woodworking tools do you like?
01:19 PM JT-Shop: roycroft, nice, how thick is the top?
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: JT-Shop: same question
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: is any of the newer delta stuff any good or have they all cheapened out?
01:23 PM roycroft: jt-shop: 4-1/2"
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: are you better off with older tools and just plan on swapping bearings and motors?
01:28 PM Tom_L: things are build cheaper than they used to be. bearings & motor may not be the only thing to fail
01:29 PM JT-Shop2: CaptHindsight: I'm completely satisfied with my powermatic 8" jointer and my woodpeckers router table and lift
01:29 PM JT-Shop2: the used delta 15" planer is ok and much better to use after adding a DRO
01:30 PM JT-Shop2: the rikon 14" bandsaw is good except for the adjustments for the blade guides
01:30 PM JT-Shop2: they touted them as tooless adjustments but fine adjustment is just not possible
01:31 PM JT-Shop2: I'm also completely satisfied with the sawstop cabinet table saw
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: I just a few older tools (1970 and earlier)
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: I like them for the solid structures and bases. The rest I swap out
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: Rockwell drill press, craftsman table saw
01:34 PM JT-Shop2: yeah I had a craftsman table saw for a long long time then got a used delta and after a year wanted my craftsman back lol
01:35 PM JT-Shop2: the delta with a cast iron top is why I have a sawstop now
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: I rarely touch wood for work, mostly just crates and pallets
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: I did buy 50+ wood cabinet doors from Ikea for $1ea
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: figured it would be a project some day as faces for metal cabinets
01:46 PM veegee: CaptHindsight real wood or ikea wood aka particle board?
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: these are solid, got them a few years ago
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: red tones, lots of grain
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: i do collect the MDF desktops
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: they are also a few$ for a desktop or 4 or 5 x 8ft closet door panel finished with some coating
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: all sanded and finished for a few $, great for temp tables and room dividers
01:53 PM JT-Shop: I just finished making some perches from some slab wood left over from sawyering
01:53 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/run/pearch-01.jpg
01:53 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/run/pearch-02.jpg
01:53 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/run/pearch-03.jpg
01:53 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/run/pearch-04.jpg
01:53 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/run/pearch-05.jpg
01:54 PM JT-Shop: https://gnipsel.com/images/chickens/12x16-coop/run/pearch-06.jpg
01:54 PM JT-Shop: put the last one in today
01:58 PM JT-Shop2: the most valuable accessory for the tablesaw is my copy of a William Ng sled
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: i don't have the time or place for them but I found free chickens available from farms all around me
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: in chick form
01:59 PM Rab: JT-Shop2, those artisinal live-edge perches would command a serious price in this city.
02:00 PM Rab: *artisanal
02:00 PM JT-Shop2: made from scrap wood too
02:07 PM JT-Shop2: yeah if I could read the grain like Roy Underhill and carve like Mary May I'd be an artist lol
02:11 PM Tom_L: my friend had an industrial bandsaw he used in his shop and when he retired and went back to his small shop he got a grizzly bandsaw and said he likes it better than the other one
02:13 PM Tom_L: it's one with a foot brake though
02:14 PM JT-Shop2: the rikon cuts well and is very quiet and I can resaw really thick wood it's just a PIA to get the rollers set exactly right
02:55 PM jymmmm: JT-Shop Heh, you got baby chicks and they even have their own fan =) Perches look nice too!
03:11 PM JT-Shop2: they are 15 1/2 weeks old so very much pullets not chicks
03:11 PM JT-Shop2: they have music, touch screen, internet...
03:11 PM jymmmm: hahaha
03:12 PM jymmmm: "big scrren TV - 20")
03:13 PM Deejay: gn8
03:13 PM jymmmm: Deejay: gn9
03:30 PM JT-Shop2: naw 7" touch screen
03:32 PM jymmmm: Awww, no Chicken Drive-in movies :(
03:34 PM Tom_L: any recomendations for a 2" tool setter with a dial indicator?
03:47 PM jymmmm: Ok, this light is obscene... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVKoVZkkCtk
03:48 PM JT-Shop2: tool setter with 2" of travel?
03:49 PM JT-Shop2: mine is an older version of this one https://www.edgetechnologyproducts.com/pro-touch-off-gage/
03:51 PM Tom_itx: https://www.amazon.com/HFS-MAGNETIC-SETTER-offset-setter/dp/B06XRBL5SD?ref_=nav_signin&
03:52 PM Tom_L: need that and a coaxial indicator
03:52 PM Tom_L: which i know what to get there
04:01 PM jymmmm: a flashlight with a 3500ft range, SMH
04:07 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest78181
04:08 PM Tom_itx: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VXS9S0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
04:10 PM Tom_L: except the inch version of the first link
04:12 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Not sure if you care, but all amazon links need are the "/dp/" + number... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001VXS9S0/
04:13 PM Tom_L: gp
04:13 PM Tom_L: thanks
04:14 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: but i pay to be tracked
04:15 PM Tom_L: i pay _extra_ for that!
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.brewerywerks.com/ hijacked by the Chinese!! damn
04:25 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: I know
04:26 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: gp didn't work for me, do usually does
04:26 PM jymmmm: dp*
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: would a camera alignment widget for QTPYVCP be of help?
04:29 PM jymmmm: like with crosshairs and stuff?
04:29 PM CaptHindsight: set camera say 0.1" above part corner or hole, press button, machine centers to within 1 pixel width
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: pixel may be a few microns dia
04:31 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: could it do height too, kinda like a tool heihgt thingy?
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: it can a few ways
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: flip the camera 90 deg si it measures Z
04:32 PM jymmmm: or two cameras
04:33 PM jymmmm: or a mirror
04:33 PM jymmmm: eh tw cameras, no mirror
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: yeah precision 45
04:35 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143683336597 great price
04:36 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, hole centers or round bar centers etc
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: anything with a visible edge
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/QU0ka4r 50um gap
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/IFdlrj3 it finds the edges and then moves the spindle to the edge, intersections/corners, edge of a circle or center etc
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/IC9g4M6 detect edge of a circle
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: 28 ga (wire) plated hole
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: how smooth are your calipers? https://imgur.com/XKRdpFK
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: 50um gap Mitutoyo
04:56 PM Tom_L: CMMs make things look pretty crappy too
04:58 PM XXCoder: dang
04:58 PM XXCoder: its 92f and cloudy
05:03 PM Tom_L: pretty nice here today
05:03 PM Tom_L: dunno the temp
05:03 PM Tom_L: phone says 84F
05:10 PM jymmmm: WTH... google play music is going away
05:10 PM XXCoder: yeah read about that
05:11 PM XXCoder: around typical for google
05:12 PM jymmmm: I have around 4000 of my own songs I uploaded to there, eeeesh
05:12 PM jymmmm: maybe 2000, don't rememebr
05:12 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200816_143026.jpg
05:13 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200816_143641.jpg
05:13 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200816_143706.jpg
05:17 PM Tom_L: looks like it turned out
05:17 PM Tom_L: no pun..
05:17 PM skunkworks: mostly :)
05:18 PM skunkworks: still have to get the spacing right
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: Emco lathe?
05:21 PM skunkworks: yes
07:05 PM jymmmm: roycroft: These are pretty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYcvCpFHhc
07:18 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: 3d printed cnc router cutting wood/metal, running off arduino... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_atw3e0nIrg
07:19 PM XXCoder: ah the better version
07:19 PM XXCoder: first version thats pipes suc
07:19 PM XXCoder: you could see backlash all over without it even running yet lol
07:20 PM Tom_L: about 500 passes to reach the bottom of the alum
07:20 PM XXCoder: likely yeah. i would use it for wood
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: seen it
07:25 PM CaptHindsight: funny I was just thinking about the correlation between CNC glue gun fans and LinuxCNC over USB people
07:26 PM Tom_L: nice gear pdf: https://qtcgears.com/tools/catalogs/PDF_Q420/Tech.pdf
07:40 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: someone posted a link to the usb printer port thing in one of my videos.
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: that joke one i did a few years ago with the printrun "radar" screen in axis
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: the other fun one https://pasteboard.co/GMLssg8.png
08:09 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Yeah, we were talking about that yesterday, funny how I just came across that video today
08:10 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: what do you mostly use buck or boost?
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: I'm usually going from AC 120V to some DC <48V
08:12 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Just ordered this off ebay https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32973451914.html
08:13 PM Tom_L: only one left
08:13 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: It's also TTL programmable and found a arduino library for it, I have the mini version I buought years ago, they work nice
08:13 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: ???
08:14 PM Tom_L: your link says only one left
08:14 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: the link are for the nice pics, I ordered mine from ebay
08:17 PM jymmmm: plus the english manual is in that link
08:17 PM Tom_L: engrish?
08:18 PM jymmmm: No actually english, not chinglish.
11:13 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: fake chips on converters... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLwJb4MVbls
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: it's China, they have been doing this for 5,000 years
11:19 PM CaptHindsight: they do things differently
11:35 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: oh I know fakes are everywhere out there from china, just never really saw the details, like chip suffixs
11:35 PM jymmmm: Interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryJmtItfaXQ