#linuxcnc Logs
Aug 10 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:29 AM Deejay: moin
04:30 AM veegee: You know what Deejay you and your moin can go fuck yourselves
04:30 AM veegee: just kidding just kidding
04:32 AM Loetmichel: veegee : mind you language please
04:32 AM veegee: D:
04:32 AM veegee: sorry
04:34 AM veegee: Worth it: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01I91RIZ6
04:35 AM XXCoder: for alum and such?
04:38 AM veegee: for anything
04:38 AM veegee: much better balanced
04:38 AM veegee: also much safer because it won't shatter
04:39 AM XXCoder: not bad, though dont need one for now maube in future
04:39 AM veegee: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/milwaukee-tool-3-inch-carbide-abrasive-blade/1001214809 this one is also really good
06:06 AM Tom_L: morning
06:10 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:17 AM Tom_L: 76F / 94 hi with light showers this morning
06:32 AM * Loetmichel is cutting alumionium on a table saw with a carbide blade
06:32 AM Loetmichel: works fine
06:32 AM Loetmichel: just get used to showers of really hot alu swarf
06:33 AM Loetmichel: veg
06:33 AM Loetmichel: veegee: https://direktkauf.idealo.de/productpage/5370949
06:34 AM Loetmichel: i dont like those diamond/carbide "grit" cuttin disks. they tend to clog way to fast in my opinion
06:35 AM Tom_L: i used one on my square steel and it did 'ok'
06:36 AM Tom_L: the regular cutoff disks did better than the diamond coated steel blade
06:43 AM Loetmichel: cutoff disks are great for steel
06:43 AM Loetmichel: shit for alu, especially if its an alu extrusion made of the alloys that are for "cold pressing"
07:06 AM * Loetmichel just took a 120mm noctua fan, connetced it to 15V and mounted it on a swivel desk vise... *ahh, cool breeze. NIIIICE!"
07:15 AM JT-Cave: playing with my nano and a dotstar string
08:15 AM Loetmichel: *hehe* just had a "blubbblubbblubbROARblubbblubbblubb" from outside.. "ah, neighbor customer with bad exhaust." went out: nope, neighbor customer with an "a-team"-van and edelbrock stickers on the back ;)
08:24 AM TekniQue: 11:32 * Loetmichel is cutting alumionium on a table saw with a carbide blade
08:24 AM TekniQue: always cut aluminium with saws made for wood rather than saws made for steel
08:24 AM TekniQue: *I always
08:24 AM TekniQue: but special aluminium blades are probably best
08:25 AM TekniQue: I find a wood saw works much faster
08:25 AM TekniQue: than a fine toothed steel saw
08:25 AM Loetmichel: TekniQue: it does
08:25 AM Loetmichel: but: nice spray of hot swarf in all directuions
08:27 AM roycroft: i've had the best results with a blade made for melamine
08:28 AM Loetmichel: i linked my blade above: [13:33] <Loetmichel> veegee: https://direktkauf.idealo.de/productpage/5370949
08:28 AM roycroft: yeah, you linked to that the other day
08:35 AM Loetmichel: i mean: look on the floor where the coworker DIDNT clean after sawing... -> the whole shop looks like that after a few meters of lenghwise cut in alu extrusion: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17936&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:35 AM Loetmichel: its like coarse glitter.
08:35 AM Loetmichel: ALL over the place
10:03 AM Rab: Loetmichel, isn't an A-Team van (GMC Vandura or similar) with Edelbrock components an unusual ride in .de?
10:07 AM Loetmichel: Rab: thats the point
10:07 AM Loetmichel: VERY unusual
10:08 AM Loetmichel: and expensive
10:08 AM Rab: It seems like a weird vehicle to import, since I assume they were never sold domestically.
10:08 AM Loetmichel: indeed
10:08 AM Loetmichel: <- still dreams of an F150 from 1969... my birth year. fully restored
10:08 AM Loetmichel: but i will possibly not ever be able to pay for that
10:08 AM Rab: Lots of GMC and Chevy vans here, although ones from that era are getting pretty old and have very little value.
10:09 AM Thorhian: What countries are you two from?
10:10 AM Rab: United States of AmeriKKKa
10:10 AM Loetmichel: i have seen a '74 F150 here in germany lately... restored to original contidion... just €13k... and a dead engine.
10:10 AM Thorhian: Pff XD
10:10 AM Tom_L: there's plenty of em around these parts
10:10 AM Tom_L: did that year have the wood bed?
10:10 AM Thorhian: I'm in the USA as well. Plenty of trucks around with all of the farm land around me.
10:10 AM Loetmichel: the opne i have seen had a steel bed
10:12 AM Loetmichel: Thorhian: yeah, german climate would have reduced that truck to a rust pile sitting in the fields for 10 + years. not to speak of some "ecowarriors" that would have called the authorities because of oil and greas spill into nature and so on...
10:13 AM Thorhian: Lol, is Germany pretty humid? My dad seems to think that.
10:13 AM Tom_L: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/fa/08/55fa08c64306af53c472bafdb0d46889.jpg
10:13 AM Loetmichel: so no chance of getting some "barn finds" here, apart from the fact that they were never sold that much/at all here
10:14 AM Loetmichel: Thorhian: think boston climate or worse
10:14 AM Loetmichel: IIRC
10:14 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: that looks nice
10:15 AM Tom_L: stepside are worthless but look nicer imo
10:16 AM Tom_L: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTzxBdAQFR3MUJWdLx1ZSrZ2oytjSxy2K-6FQ&usqp=CAU
10:18 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: i like the "bulbous round" fenders front and rear for looks but i really want a 1969 one because i am born in that year
10:18 AM Thorhian: Not going to lie, I much prefer the crazy looks of a Cybertruck over a typical truck *shrug*
10:18 AM Loetmichel: Thorhian: i like that , too
10:19 AM Loetmichel: but it will never be able to drive on german roads.
10:19 AM Loetmichel: issues with pedestrian protecion
10:19 AM Thorhian: Why is that?
10:19 AM Loetmichel: no crumple zones in the front
10:19 AM Thorhian: Ah
10:19 AM Thorhian: Is that confirmed?
10:20 AM Loetmichel: as far as i know at least very hardly suggested by serveal european DOTs.
10:20 AM Thorhian: I thought crumple zones were a requirement in the US as well, in most places as well?
10:22 AM Loetmichel: i dont know, but in europe its all about the "EURO NCAP" test
10:22 AM Loetmichel: if the car fails it will not get any chance to drive on european roads
10:22 AM Tom_L: not back when they were built of real iron
10:23 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: old cars are excempt
10:23 AM Loetmichel: if older than 30 years
10:23 AM Thorhian: Lol Tom, hence why a lot of older cars are refered to as metal death traps.
10:23 AM Loetmichel: the rules are only for new cars
10:23 AM Rab: I believe crumple zones for pedestrian protection are required here. I have no idea how the Cybertruck complies with that.
10:23 AM Loetmichel: and its actually not about protecting the passenger but the driver of the OTHER car
10:24 AM Loetmichel: the bigger the car the more crumple zone it has to have to protect the one it impacts
10:24 AM Loetmichel: can you imagine what happens when a cybertruck hits a smart car at full speed head on?
10:25 AM Thorhian: I mean, crumple zones increase the time it takes for the momentum to change in the impact, which would affect both sides, and improve survivability for both parties doesn't it?
10:25 AM Loetmichel: .. being made of 3mm stainless steel?
10:25 AM Tom_L: thing is, there are always going to be incompatible vehicles on the road
10:25 AM roycroft: perhaps not always
10:25 AM roycroft: but for the forseeable future
10:26 AM Loetmichel: Thorhian: crumple zones decrease gforces by elongating the time of impact
10:26 AM Thorhian: Yes, that is what I mean.
10:26 AM Thorhian: You reduce the force of the impact since the acceleration is lower since the time of impact is higher.
10:26 AM Loetmichel: its a mayor difference if you jump off a 2 story building onto cncrete or onto a 2" foam mat,
10:27 AM roycroft: when the brakes failed on my new beetle i crashed into another car at 40+mph
10:27 AM Loetmichel: or even 2" of sand
10:27 AM Thorhian: I'm aware.
10:27 AM roycroft: the only injury i suffered was a bruise on my shoulder from the seat belt
10:27 AM * Loetmichel impacted a station wagon while on a 50cc moped... at ~60kph
10:27 AM Loetmichel: flew over the hood
10:28 AM Thorhian: Even in the public education system of the USA you can take a physics class in highschool, and that sounds terribly painful btw.
10:28 AM Loetmichel: gathered my appendages, checked all for funktion: still working... looked a the car: ups. totaled
10:28 AM Thorhian: XD
10:29 AM Loetmichel: managed to hit the A pillar with my shoulder and bend it inwards a good 4"
10:29 AM Loetmichel: -> whole frame shifted
10:29 AM Loetmichel: and it wasnt my fault .-)
10:31 AM Loetmichel: <- laughed his ass off as the woman in the car that tried to do a 3 stroke turn RIGHT after overtaking me looked at her 2 years old VW passat in shambles...
10:31 AM Loetmichel: (i mean i flew across her windshield, impaced the ground a good 20 feet away, and the only thing when she came out is "my car my car!", not "are you ok?")
10:32 AM Loetmichel: had quite the bruises for a couple weeks though
10:32 AM Thorhian: Wow. That's quite the woman.
10:32 AM Loetmichel: and the moped was pretty bend
10:33 AM Loetmichel: bu that was $100from the german "craigs list" equivalent, so no loss, and it still drove ;)
10:33 AM Thorhian: XD
10:35 AM Loetmichel: funny thing was that she had only liability insurance on a near new car...
10:36 AM Loetmichel: i was lucky though that it was a station wagon
10:36 AM Loetmichel: not a convertible
10:36 AM Loetmichel: those have reinforced A pilalrs
10:36 AM Loetmichel: pillars
10:36 AM Loetmichel: may have brokenn some bones then
10:36 AM Thorhian: Oof.
10:38 AM Loetmichel: fun fact: the BMW E40 convertibe i have now is about 100kg (220lbs) heavier than its sister with a roof
10:38 AM Loetmichel: E46
10:38 AM Rab: A friend of mine was hit on his motorcycle on the highway, had to lay the bike down. The driver of the other car came running up and asked him if he was okay, while she was recording with her cellphone. He recognized the shabby trick and didn't speak on camera. ;)
10:39 AM Loetmichel: i compared the paperwork with my coworker who drives that
10:40 AM Thorhian: Lol do people get out of lawsuits if you say "I'm okay."?
10:40 AM Rab: Thorhian, or it could be ammunition for her insurance company. Either way, he didn't want to find out.
10:41 AM * Loetmichel is lucky in that regard
10:42 AM Thorhian: Good idea. Personally I doubt you would even know if you were truly okay or not even if none of your bones were broken until later. The kind of forces you encounter in a collision like that can do all sorts of things to your body, especially your brain and nervous system long term.
10:42 AM Loetmichel: <- has dropped 20 ft from a lighting rig onto concrete floor... no damage other than a LOT of black an blue back
10:42 AM roycroft: absolutely
10:42 AM Rab: I see the Cybertruck is offered in a selection of paint colors. I wonder what priming process they're using, and how long a paintjob will last on the stainless steel.
10:43 AM Thorhian: I mean, part of the appeal is that you don't need a paint coat. I wouldn't.
10:43 AM roycroft: after a trauma like that one goes into shock, which is the body's mechanism for suppressing pain so that one can hopefully cope with one's injuries
10:43 AM Loetmichel: Thorhian: worst accidend i has was on the autbahn at ~140kph
10:43 AM Loetmichel: back seat of a friends BMW bike
10:43 AM Rab: Thorhian, sure, and with adrenaline going it's hard to recognize injury. And there's an impulse to say "No big deal, I'm fine" even as you're bleeding out.
10:44 AM Loetmichel: there was a 2by4 on the street he didnt see until to late
10:44 AM Thorhian: Yikes dude. How are you still alive lol?
10:44 AM Rab: Thorhian, people have painted DeLoreans with etching primer. Not cool IMO.
10:45 AM Loetmichel: i flew about 100ft and glided down the highway another 240ft... stood up, all the gliding rivets on the leather clothing were glowing... but no bone brolen
10:45 AM Loetmichel: broken
10:45 AM Thorhian: Very lucky lol, and probably skilled at falling properly.
10:45 AM Loetmichel: as i said: i am lucky in my accidents
10:46 AM Loetmichel: s/skilled/enough training
10:47 AM Loetmichel: its not the first time :-)
10:47 AM Loetmichel: will probably not be the last ;)
10:47 AM Thorhian: XD
10:47 AM Loetmichel: <- a bit careless sometimes
10:48 AM Loetmichel: Rab: its also a bit of an attitude probe,
10:49 AM Loetmichel: l
10:49 AM Loetmichel: problem
10:49 AM Loetmichel: i tend to disregard/ignore smaller injurys
10:49 AM Rab: Loetmichel, so I have noticed.
10:50 AM Thorhian: The scary injuries are the really small and unnoticable ones that build up over time and make your life a living heck.
10:50 AM Loetmichel: so as long as i am able to pull myself up to my feet you WILL probably hear "all good, i'm fine"
10:51 AM Loetmichel: Rab: i managed to cut my palm open with a deburr tool a while ago
10:52 AM Loetmichel: went to the ER to get stitches... sitting there on the operating table halfway thru the stitches the doctor asked: "did the numbing stop working?" $me "What numbing? never got one. but go on, you're already halfway done!"
10:52 AM Loetmichel: her face: priceless ;)
10:52 AM Rab: Loetmichel, the blade-type deburr tools are vicious. I keep meaning to mount a 3-6 blade countersink on a handle for hand beburring, but of course that's only good for round holes.
10:53 AM Loetmichel: i mean: compared to the cut (you could see the thumb muscle move in the gash) the few stitches were harmless
10:54 AM Loetmichel: https://www.hoffmann-group.com/AT/de/hoa/Hand-und-Montagewerkzeuge/Lochen-Entgraten-Schaben/Universal-Entgrater%2C-Alu-Griff-mit-1-Klinge-%28S10%29/p/838400-
10:54 AM Loetmichel: those
10:54 AM Loetmichel: when the tip breaks off the rest is as a razor sharp rake
10:55 AM Loetmichel: point was: sure, the stitching hurt a bit. but no comparsion to me being silly enough to slice my palm open.
10:55 AM Loetmichel: so no numbing neccessary
10:56 AM Loetmichel: Thorhian: nah, small injuries dont count... i have what they say is "good healing meat".
10:56 AM Loetmichel: i dont even get an infection most of the time.
10:57 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: stitches?! just toss on some duct tape and be done
10:57 AM Thorhian: Your nerves say hi. It's not the cuts and bruises I'm usually worried about.
10:57 AM Loetmichel: even when i neglect any stitching or desinfectants
10:57 AM Loetmichel: jym: CA glue works well if its a clean cut
10:57 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: epoxy primer on SS
10:57 AM Loetmichel: iE: no ragged edges
10:58 AM Rab: CaptHindsight, long service life?
10:58 AM Loetmichel: soo, end of work, already one hour overtime
10:58 AM Loetmichel: rest tomorrow
10:58 AM Thorhian: Unfortunately my father is practically disabled due to 24/7 headaches due to how screwed up he is from nerve damage.
10:58 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: true
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: sure, but what goes on top and what it comes into contact with will effect life
11:00 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: epoxy with a fluorinate vinyl can go 5-+ years
11:01 AM Thorhian: I am so happy that my motor is coming today :D
11:02 AM CaptHindsight: Rab: heh 50+ years https://www.agc-chemicals.com/jp/en/fluorine/products/detail/index.html?pCode=JP-EN-F002
11:03 AM Thorhian: BTW, did any of you see the starship hop live recently?
11:03 AM Rab: Not live, but I saw the video.
11:03 AM Thorhian: It was awesome watching it live. I would not mind visiting texas at some point now.
11:05 AM Rab: Thorhian, specifically to watch SpaceX action, or...? It's not a very nice part of Texas; swimming in the Gulf is the main attraction.
11:06 AM Thorhian: SpaceX action.
11:06 AM Thorhian: I'm not a fan of the heat, so that would be the only real reason why.
11:08 AM Rab: Thorhian, the heat is bad, the humidity is a force multiplier. I'm "working from home" in no-AC shop; tolerable in the mornings, but every day I'm like a boiling frog. And that's 150mi from the Gulf coast.
11:08 AM Thorhian: XD
11:08 AM roycroft: ours is usually a dry heat
11:09 AM roycroft: so although it's going to get up to 35 today, it won't be unbearable, as the humidity will be <30%
11:09 AM Thorhian: Isn't no AC in a machine shop a bad idea in a humid place?
11:09 AM Rab: Thorhian, it is not ideal.
11:09 AM roycroft: that said, i have more glueups to do today, and the open time on the glue will be almost nil
11:09 AM roycroft: so i'm going to turn the ac on in the shop soon
11:10 AM Rab: I keep my machine tools oiled; neglect and sweat are the main threats.
11:28 AM veegee: If I design a solid body in something like fusion360, for example something simple like a base for a bench grinder, how can I get that made in cast iron?
11:29 AM veegee: I mean, is it going to be outrageously expensive to have it made in 1 - 10 units?
11:29 AM roycroft: someone will have to make a pattern, and then a foundry will have to cast it however many times
11:29 AM roycroft: the pattern making is probably the most expensive part
11:30 AM veegee: Would it be cheaper just to buy a block of cast iron and machine it?
11:30 AM roycroft: if you just need one, almost certainly
11:30 AM Rab: I have heard similar questions before (usually relating to machine tool frames), and the answer usually seems to involve India.
11:31 AM veegee: Which is fine with me for anything more than a single unit
11:31 AM Thorhian: XD Rab
11:31 AM veegee: but the shipping and handling on that would be insane
11:32 AM veegee: Well, if I'm going to just machine a block of metal, at least I have more a choice in metals. Could even just go with mild steel
11:32 AM Thorhian: What if you were to make your own pattern?
11:32 AM Rab: veegee, even if it doubles the cost, it might still be cheaper than using a North American foundry.
11:32 AM roycroft: i would not trust castings made in india
11:32 AM veegee: For small items, I'm possibly considering pouring it myself
11:33 AM Thorhian: Not gonna lie, how do you even find iron to cast? Also, how do you cast it at home in a way that won't result it a crappy porous cast?
11:33 AM Thorhian: For casting iron specifically.
11:34 AM veegee: Yeah need to find a source for casting iron ingots
11:34 AM Rab: For a bench grinder pedestal, just about anything would do. But in that cast, why not use a weldment filled with sand or something?
11:34 AM veegee: That was just an example
11:34 AM veegee: I've casted Zamak 3 this week and it turned out excellent
11:35 AM Rab: For actual machine tool frames, there are serious issues of stress relief. It's almost a lost art, here.
11:35 AM Thorhian: :( That makes me sad Rab
11:35 AM Loetmichel: re at home
11:36 AM roycroft: cast iron should be almost a lost technique, when it comes to machinery and tools
11:36 AM roycroft: ductile iron is much more durable and less brittle than traditional cast iron
11:36 AM veegee: Casted a gear for a laminator for toner transfer to PCBs
11:36 AM veegee: ductile iron is great, but not as rigid
11:37 AM Thorhian: Isn't ductile iron a "fancy" alloy of cast iron? Is that what they use in modern vises these days like Kurt?
11:37 AM Loetmichel: Rab: I know that the local forge wher i grew up had always cast iron/steel machine parts out in the open for years.
11:37 AM veegee: But that's why I bought Ridgid bran pipe wrenches, they're using ductile iron instead of the cast iron everyone else uses
11:37 AM Loetmichel: i always wondered if the customers are not angry about a quarter inch of rust on their parts.
11:37 AM Rab: I have read that in the (early? mid?) 20th century, Bridgeport Machines would sit their cast mill bodies outside for 10 years to let seasonal thermal expansion relieve casting stresses. I'm not sure if it's true. I guess for that to work as a production strategy, your market would have to be very predictable.
11:37 AM Loetmichel: but turned out that that is for stress relief and badly needed
11:37 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel, it's an aging process
11:37 AM Tom_L: :)
11:37 AM Loetmichel: indeed
11:38 AM roycroft: loetmichel: that's for stress relief
11:38 AM roycroft: pour the casting
11:38 AM roycroft: put it out in the yard for a year or two
11:38 AM roycroft: then machine it
11:38 AM Loetmichel: more like 5 years in my case
11:38 AM veegee: then there's this whole meehanite process whatever that is
11:38 AM roycroft: the bigger the casting the longer the time it needs
11:38 AM Thorhian: Uh, how do you stress relief without waiting a year or two?
11:38 AM Loetmichel: but yes, thats what the owner of the forge told me, too
11:38 AM Loetmichel: i was about a boy back then though
11:39 AM Rab: Thorhian, ovens, I suppose.
11:39 AM veegee: yes ovens for speeding up aging
11:39 AM Loetmichel: roycroft: we are talking machine beds for 40 feet lathes and similar sized milling machines
11:39 AM Thorhian: That just seems like a stupidly long time to wait for machine bodies.
11:39 AM Loetmichel: and grinding machines
11:39 AM Rab: Bury the casting and invite your friends to a series of lūʻaus?
11:40 AM Rab: I would be interested to know how to identify one of them good 10-year Bridgeports.
11:41 AM * Loetmichel did grow up in Remscheid, the town in germany know for tool making (gedore, dowidat, belzer, knipex and a lot of others come from there)
11:42 AM veegee: Rab all bridgeports are > 10 years old
11:42 AM Rab: veegee, undeniable knowledge bomb.
11:43 AM Loetmichel: Rab: by now: it doesent matter
11:43 AM Loetmichel: i doubt there will be any more movement in 50, 60 year old castings
11:44 AM Rab: But not necessarily subjected to seasonal temperature cycling /before/ machining to final form, right?
11:44 AM Loetmichel: regardless if they were aged 10 years or 1 year in the beginning
11:44 AM roycroft: hardinge own the bridgeport name now, and still make mills
11:44 AM Loetmichel: thats of no problem other than that you mit have to scrape in the ways anew if the previous owner didnt already do that
11:44 AM roycroft: and call them "bridgeport" mills
11:45 AM Rab: roycroft, sounds like a good pairing with a "South Bend" lathe.
11:45 AM roycroft: grizzly own south bend now
11:46 AM Tom_L: my friend has an old south bend lathe
11:46 AM Thorhian: Is there a reason to age cast/ductile iron for multiple years vs an oven?
11:46 AM Tom_L: nice lathe
11:46 AM TekniQue: 16:37 < Loetmichel> i always wondered if the customers are not angry about a quarter inch of rust on their parts.
11:46 AM TekniQue: a quick dump in some acid and that is no longer the case
11:46 AM Loetmichel: TekniQue: indeed
11:46 AM Rab: Thorhian, one takes time, one takes a lot of energy you have to pay for. Optimize for your commodity.
11:47 AM Tom_L: i wonder if they ever shot peened cast for relief
11:47 AM Thorhian: Multiple years of time on big castings it looks like. That's a lot of time not making money.
11:47 AM Loetmichel: Rab: also "natural" aging is more effective than accelerated aging with thermal cycles
11:49 AM Thorhian: I'd rather make a machine base with Epoxy Granite/Polymer Concrete than going with cast iron.
11:49 AM sync: all the big mfgs have gone away from polymers again
11:50 AM sync: they are not really cheaper nor do they offer superior performance
11:50 AM Tom_L: i doubt polymers would long term outlast iron
11:50 AM roycroft: it's a lot of time not making money, but the castings are cheap
11:50 AM roycroft: yes, you have a lot of inventory mass laying out in the yard, but not all that much inventory money
11:51 AM Rab: Thorhian, it's not like the fine whiskey maker whips up a batch and then sits around for 30 years.
11:54 AM Thorhian: I just find that for machine tools, adding a year or more to the production pipeline because you have to leave your casting sitting around is a ton of latency to a companies production pipeline.
11:54 AM TekniQue: according to a documentary I saw, wood for making expensive violins is aged out in the elements for 20 years after they chop the trees down
11:54 AM TekniQue: so this concept of aging stuff seems to be pretty prevalent in the manufacturing segment
11:55 AM roycroft: yes, fine instrument woods are aged for prolonged periods of time
11:55 AM Loetmichel: hmm just wathched a video of "sexycyborg" installing a vice in her new CNC mill, am i imagining it or is naomis english getting worse instead of better over the years?
11:55 AM Thorhian: Lol that channel.
11:56 AM Thorhian: I only know about her because of a scadal with creality a few years ago.
11:56 AM Loetmichel: scandal?
11:56 AM Loetmichel: didnt notice that
11:56 AM Thorhian: sorry yeah.
11:56 AM Loetmichel: i have watched her occasionally when she was still flat as a board.
11:56 AM Loetmichel: looong ago ;)
11:57 AM Loetmichel: never itensly though
11:57 AM Loetmichel: just noticed that her pronunciation is less clear than half a decade ago ;)
11:57 AM Thorhian: When they first released the Ender 3 (Creality), they added an emergency power off feature that kept track of where the printer was printing if the power went out.
11:58 AM Loetmichel: good thing
11:58 AM Loetmichel: and`
11:58 AM Loetmichel: ?
11:58 AM Thorhian: However, this was a feature they added to Marlin, which is licensed under the GPL. They never released their source code.
11:59 AM Thorhian: Until later that is, after the community started going after them.
12:00 PM Thorhian: Naomi was one of the people who actually comminicated with Creality directly to get things sorted out if I remember correctly.
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: cost to produce Granite/Polymer Concrete vs cast iron, depends on how many you are going to make and if you have a foundry or not
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: Granite/Polymer Concrete is easy to DIY
01:24 PM CaptHindsight: foundry not required
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: really high precision stuff is still Granite/Polymer Concrete vs iron
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: but both work well for your average +- 0.001" machines
01:33 PM veegee: Speaking of concrete, is it a good dense/heavy material to use as a base for making a bench grinder pedestal stand and similar stuff?
01:34 PM veegee: I'm thinking of filling old brake rotors with it and building base using those
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: if you reinforce it
01:36 PM CaptHindsight: if you're just going to use bag concrete I'd use something high strength and add acrylic
01:39 PM jymmmm: and fibers
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: fortifier vs bonding agent
01:39 PM jymmmm: IDK about acrylic, isn't epoxies better ?
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: bag concrete vs polymer concrete
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: worked for the Romans
01:53 PM Tom_L: veegee, i used an old rim and stuffed a pipe in the hole and welded it
01:59 PM veegee: CaptHindsight the concrete will not serve as a structural component
01:59 PM veegee: It's just there merely to add mass
02:00 PM veegee: Any structural component will be welded steel
02:00 PM veegee: Well mass and rigidity
02:10 PM FinboySlick: veegee: Come-on, this is 2020, do a dynamic simulation and build a concrete structure that will fully cancel all the harmonics of the grinder using machine learning.
02:11 PM veegee: machine learning is not applicable to simulatios
02:11 PM FinboySlick: Of course, it'll crack if you lose your connection to the cloud but Internet service is so reliable these days.
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: my vote is for stuffing them full of old arduinos
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: then tossing them into the sea
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: then build a machine base
02:25 PM Tom_L: what did the marine life do to deserve that?
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: did nothing to stop arduinos
02:27 PM FinboySlick: ... and they took away our plastic straws.
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: somebody here was going to mass produce PLA straws
02:28 PM FinboySlick: People's Liberation Army straws?
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: i use hollowed bamboo
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: polylactisacryimalizedasidicness
02:29 PM XXCoder: i use metal ones
02:39 PM veegee: Why do they fill pressure gauges with glycerin instead of oil?
02:40 PM veegee: Even the random sum-ting-wong brand "oil filled" ones are actually filled with glycerin
02:41 PM veegee: But it does make for a sweet snack if you have nothing better to do
03:05 PM roycroft: i have some nice glass straws that work better than plastic ones, and a couple stainless steel ones for camping/traveling
03:05 PM roycroft: there's no need for plastic straws
03:06 PM roycroft: for restaurants there are biodegradable paper ones that work fine for single use
03:26 PM Deejay: gn8
03:27 PM XXCoder: yep
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: dropped 15 deg F in a few minutes
03:45 PM XXCoder: rain?
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: tornado just to the north
03:47 PM JT-Cave: keep the tornado and send the cold
03:48 PM XXCoder: dont send either here, we got enough wind and cold here heh
03:50 PM JT-Cave: Heat Index is 105°F
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: 5 tornadoes within 10 miles of here
03:51 PM jdh: 2020
03:51 PM jdh: we had 2 and a hurricane last week. then an earthquake
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: well 20 miles all in a line
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: now 5
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: now 6
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/9HOXhFA
03:57 PM XXCoder: fun
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: 12 more to the south
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: like a disaster film
04:00 PM XXCoder: yeah
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: a Derecho
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: as in: it's gonnah derecho everythin in its path
04:21 PM roycroft: we had some pretty strong, sustained winds yesterday, but nothing like a derecho
04:21 PM roycroft: and absolutely no precipitation associated with the winds
04:46 PM veegee: wtf is a tool truck?
04:47 PM veegee: Never seen one in Canada
04:47 PM veegee: like an ice cream truck but for tools? why???
04:48 PM veegee: and god damn snapon is overpriced, why would you ever buy snap on when you can get the same quality for 1/3" the price?
04:48 PM jdh: because the driver will brink them to your shop and sell them to you for only $100/week for 7200 weeks
04:50 PM veegee: lol what you have to pay for the dipshit to sell you stuff?
04:50 PM veegee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmFYr867Ls
04:50 PM veegee: lol $130 for a plain old ratchet wrench
04:50 PM veegee: and people actually buy these things? I just don't understand
04:51 PM veegee: so pay for the ice cream truck to come to you and then pay $10 for a cone
04:54 PM CaptHindsight: yes, cuase only loosers don't youze snapon
04:55 PM veegee: jesus christ what a shit company
04:55 PM CaptHindsight: they show up on pay day, give you credit to buy $90k worth of screw drivers
04:56 PM CaptHindsight: Snapon has a factory near me, the shop down the street does turning for them
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: they air freight a few pallets loads of tools daily
04:57 PM veegee: guy in the video calls torx for "eurotrash"
04:57 PM veegee: that's how you know he's trailer trash
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: UPS airfreight stops here after snap-on
04:58 PM veegee: who the hell is overpaying for this crap?
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: or Mac tools is another
04:58 PM veegee: I just don't understand. The amount of money you could save by not having anything to do with snap on is insane
04:58 PM CaptHindsight: they drive to all the small repair shops
04:59 PM jdh: and proto
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: but you get braggin rights to a giant tool chest all for 7900 payments of $99ea
05:00 PM roycroft: that the snap-on truck drives to your workplace is worth a premium to many
05:00 PM roycroft: and their tools are very high quality
05:00 PM roycroft: they are definitely better than the old craftsman or the current husky, etc. brands
05:00 PM veegee: well yeah I'm not comparing them to local hardware store made in china stuff
05:00 PM roycroft: but there are other premium brands that do not cost as much as snap-on
05:01 PM veegee: exactly
05:01 PM roycroft: however, those other brands don't usually bring a truck to your workplace
05:01 PM roycroft: that's the value added that commands the premium price
05:02 PM roycroft: and if that does not add any value for you then i would recommend buying one of the other premium brands instead of snap-on
05:02 PM roycroft: i only have a few snap-on tools - i don't need the truck to drive over here
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: it's genius
05:02 PM CaptHindsight: they loan you the money to pay full price for the tools that they make
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: so they keep the profit margin and the interest paid
05:03 PM * roycroft heads out to the hopefully not terribly hot shop to do another glue up
05:03 PM CaptHindsight: how to sell tools for 500% profit vs only 200%
05:03 PM roycroft: blue point are the same tools as snap-on
05:04 PM roycroft: and are quite a bit less expensive
05:04 PM CaptHindsight: snapo on stock prices https://api.nasdaqomx.wallst.com/InvestorRelations/API/Chart?symbol=SNA-SNA&bgColor=282828&fontColor=bbbbbb&fillColor=ffffff&lineColor=5b89e1&gridLine=y&volume=0&frequency=1dy&duration=3mo&scale=linear&bdr=2&display=Mountain&bdrColor=ffffff&gridLineColor=cccccc&fillOpacity=0&width=800&headerType=none
05:04 PM roycroft: but here's the other part of the deal
05:04 PM roycroft: you can sell used snap-on tools for close to what they cost new
05:05 PM roycroft: if you hang on to them long enough while using them, you can sell them for more than what you paid for them
05:05 PM roycroft: but cheap tools resell for a tiny fraction of what they cost new
05:06 PM CaptHindsight: I buy what I can replace for free nearby, no receipt, no questions asked
05:13 PM andypugh: To be fair, Snap-On do seem to be at least as good as any other tool.
05:14 PM CaptHindsight: Branding
05:14 PM andypugh: Branding is why I buy “King Dick” spanners. It’s an expensive way to satisfy a puerile sense of humour.
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.powerhawk.com/swench
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: spanner vs wrench, we don't have spanners here?
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: is the term wrench used for any tool there?
05:18 PM andypugh: A bit
05:19 PM andypugh: in fact King Dick list their spanners under “wrenches” but I just assume they had an american web designer.
05:19 PM andypugh: “torque wrench” is a pretty standard phrase
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: is what differentiates the two terms is that a spanner is not adjustable vs a wrench for things like a pipe?
05:20 PM andypugh: No, we have adjustable spanners and “stilsons”
05:21 PM CaptHindsight: is stilsons an old popular brand?
05:22 PM andypugh: It’s the orignal patentee
05:22 PM andypugh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_wrench
05:24 PM CaptHindsight: pipe wrench is mostly what i hear now but in before the 1970's it was "monkey wrench"
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: hex key vs allen wrench
05:29 PM roycroft: a monkey wrench and a pipe wrench are two completely different things
05:30 PM roycroft: a monkey wrench has smooth jaws
05:30 PM roycroft: it has the same adjustment as a pipe wrench
05:30 PM roycroft: but the jaws are not serrated
05:30 PM roycroft: at least where i came from :)
05:31 PM roycroft: teh wikipedia agrees with me though, so i don't think the distinction is strictly a regionalism
05:34 PM andypugh: I understand that the Germans call a smooth-jawed adjustable spanner “Englander”. But then they also allegedly know us as “inselaffe” so that fits with “monkey wrench”
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: lots of words are used interchangeably that aren't exactly correct, music and country & western for example
06:01 PM veegee: I think I'm going to buy a snap on ratchet and just break it over and over again in a hydraulic press and have them replace it
06:04 PM veegee: I love princess auto. I put a cheater pipe on a breaker bar. It bent the breaker bar ever so slightly but they didn't even ask and replaced it without any hassle
06:06 PM veegee: Same with a few impact sockets that simply wore from too many impacts from the anvil. Replaced without any hassle
06:08 PM jymmmm: Fixing toilet sucks
06:08 PM Tom_L: especially the outhouse type
06:08 PM jymmmm: and "universal repair kits" ain't universal
06:09 PM jymmmm: and you need a BIG BIG ASS pair of channel locks that you will never use again in your life
06:10 PM Tom_L: you hope
06:12 PM jymmmm: I can't even find the wrench
06:12 PM jymmmm: It's like a 2" nut
06:13 PM jymmmm: spud nut???
06:13 PM jymmmm: IDK what it's even called
06:14 PM jymmmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1oggbzeokA
06:15 PM Tom_L: there might be a spanner wrench for that, i can't remember now
06:15 PM Tom_L: pretty sure mine is different
06:15 PM jymmmm: That's the EXACT setup I have, three bolts holes and then a recessed plastic nut,
06:15 PM Tom_L: 2 screws and a doughnut for the seal
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvm9q6UkOn8
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: Lock Nut Wrench - Flush Valve Tool
06:16 PM Tom_L: yeah i may have one of those stashed away somewhere
06:17 PM jymmmm: can't find it at homedepot.com
06:17 PM Tom_L: ace
06:18 PM jymmmm: Someone saidd they use these https://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-to-4-1-4-quarter-inch-oil-filter-wrench-36778.html
06:19 PM Tom_L: maybe
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: I've had a giant pair of channel locks for many years
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: no oil filter has ever won against them
06:20 PM jymmmm: I had to borrow from my neighbor, luckily he had a pair
06:21 PM CaptHindsight: I keep on forgetting to get a strap wrench
06:21 PM CaptHindsight: every so often i don't want to scratch some few inch dia tube or similar
06:23 PM CaptHindsight: the channel locks can work at many angles vs just radially
06:24 PM Tom_L: fan belt works
06:24 PM Tom_L: on filters anyway
06:24 PM Tom_L: if you have room
06:25 PM jymmmm: Someone should make a cheap toilet wrench
06:27 PM jymmmm: for recessed nuts too
06:31 PM roycroft: i have a strap wrench for oil filters that has a swivel handle, so it works at many angles as well
06:31 PM roycroft: the strap is spring steel
06:31 PM roycroft: i have 2 or 3 of them, actually - for different size filters
06:31 PM roycroft: different filter size ranges, i should say
06:32 PM roycroft: i like the kind that fits on the end of the filters, with dimples to fit in the filter's dimples, the best though
06:33 PM roycroft: the problem being that they have to fit the diameter of the filter quite closely
06:33 PM * roycroft just did two glue ups in a single go, and so is getting even more ahead of schedule
06:34 PM CaptHindsight: I've completely torn the filter from the base using the channel locks
06:35 PM CaptHindsight: some installers did not use oil on the gasket and used a wrench to install the filter
06:36 PM CaptHindsight: the channel locks even got the seized base off the block
06:52 PM roycroft: i don't understand why people overtorque things
06:52 PM roycroft: if you torque to spec, making it any tighter does not benefit anything at all
06:54 PM XXCoder: indeed
07:32 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: they are just making it easier for you to strip the corners off the heads when you are trying to loosen them after corrosion reduces their size
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: the oil filters are to test your patience by turning a few minute job into several
07:35 PM roycroft: it's the same mentality that causes people to overbuild things even when they know they're overbuilding
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: over tightened lug nuts are to keep the wheel stud makers in business
07:36 PM roycroft: i don't know
07:36 PM CaptHindsight: not really an issue anymore since underbuilding has been the fashion for >20 years
07:37 PM roycroft: it was hammered into me by so many professors in engineering school that one should never guess and overbuild, but to calculate and build conservatively, but with a proper safety margin, that i have a hard time relating to massive overbuilding
07:37 PM CaptHindsight: i was thinking about the old BASF commercials about how they don't make anything you have, they just make it better
07:38 PM roycroft: of course, one could accuse me of overbuilding this new workbench
07:38 PM CaptHindsight: the commercial would now be, we just make you more profit by making it lower cost but appears to be just as good
07:38 PM roycroft: but i tell you what, when i work on the current one it moves a *lot*
07:38 PM roycroft: and i waste much of my energy moving the bench around
07:38 PM roycroft: so i'm not saying that mass is bad :)
07:40 PM roycroft: which reminds me
07:40 PM roycroft: i need to drill a piece of ash and run a tap down it
07:41 PM roycroft: i have to install some 1/2"-13 bolts and i can't find any threaded inserts that large that are made to install in wood
07:41 PM roycroft: but ash is supposed to hold threads nicely
07:41 PM roycroft: i just have to figure out the best pilot hole size for the strongest threads
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: my benches range from 1/2 plywood on horses, to 1/2 ton of steel and or concrete/granite
07:41 PM roycroft: i should imagine i need to drill it smaller than if it were steel
07:41 PM roycroft: or even aluminium
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: whatever fits the load
07:42 PM roycroft: this bench is for hand joinery
07:42 PM roycroft: i'll be exerting a lot of force on it
07:42 PM roycroft: and the force will be my muscle power, not machinery
07:42 PM roycroft: an assembly or power tool bench i would build a lot lighter
07:43 PM roycroft: i wish i had an easy way to test how strong the threads are that i cut in the ash
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: eye bolts and your car in low gear
07:44 PM roycroft: i could build a tester, but i don't want to go to that much bother
07:44 PM roycroft: i have a hydraulic pull ram
07:44 PM roycroft: but i'd have to rig up some pretty sturdy supports
07:44 PM roycroft: i expect a 1/2" bolt to require a lot of force to pull out
07:46 PM roycroft: the bolts won't have any shear load on them at all, and shouldn't have all that much tensile load on them - i'll probably be fine
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: how deep are the threaded holes
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: ?
07:49 PM veegee: Crazy. I just realized a 3/8" brass/steel pipe has an actual inner diameter of ~0.5", but a 3/8" air hose has an actual inner diameter of 3/8"
07:49 PM veegee: CaptHindsight how deep is your love?
07:49 PM veegee: that's how deep they are
07:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-screws-allowable-withdrawal-load-d_1815.html
07:51 PM roycroft: i'll probably run them about 1-1/2"
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: 0.5" dia wood screw: Withdrawal Force (lb per inch penetration): 289
07:51 PM veegee: And those 3/8" hose barbs add some serious restriction
07:52 PM veegee: I think I'll go up a size and stretch the hose to fit the next size up. Let's see how much pressure it takes before that blows
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: 0.45 Specific Gravity of oven dry wood
07:52 PM roycroft: the pieces they're going into are 4-1/2" thick
07:52 PM roycroft: so i have plenty of room to drill and tap
07:52 PM roycroft: and the sg of ash is more like 0.62
07:52 PM roycroft: it's a pretty dense wood
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: 548lbs/inch
07:53 PM jymmmm: Wait, what if it's a wooden screw, then what? huh? huh? huh?
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: with a wood screw thread
07:53 PM roycroft: ok, 0.60
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: tensile strength of wood rod
07:54 PM roycroft: i exaggerated :)
07:54 PM roycroft: i'll be using a stainless steel bolt
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: 513lbs/in
07:54 PM jymmmm: 40 tons
07:54 PM roycroft: it all depends on how well the thread is cut
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: F = 2850 SG2 D
07:55 PM jymmmm: 40 tons/mile
07:55 PM roycroft: and the smaller the pilot hole the stronger the thread
07:55 PM roycroft: which is why i should do some experimenting
07:55 PM jymmmm: 40 tons/kilomile
07:56 PM roycroft: please use units that make sense
07:56 PM roycroft: what is that in stones/furlong?
07:57 PM CaptHindsight: wood force units per square hectare moonlit nights
07:58 PM roycroft: i've also read that drilling the pilot hole, filling it with boiled linseed oil, and letting it sit like that for a few days before running the tap down makes for a stronger thread
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: 0.5" spike into wood Withdrawal Force (lb per inch penetration): 192
07:58 PM roycroft: i'm not sure i have the time nor inclination to give that a go, though
07:58 PM roycroft: and the evidence seems no more than anecdotal, from what i've found
07:59 PM roycroft: it's almost time to make dinner, but i think i have time to drill and tap a hole to see how it goes before that
08:00 PM roycroft: i may have time for one more glue up after dinner - that would be sweet, because it would mean that the first half of my bench top is all glued up
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: 1/2 inch wood screw thread
08:00 PM roycroft: and i can star on the second half to morrow
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: <-- puts on space suit and enters spray booth
08:05 PM * jymmmm pinches the hose
08:06 PM CaptHindsight: than you mr farty
08:06 PM CaptHindsight: thank
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: why the supplied air is kept away from "help"
08:08 PM CaptHindsight: can you get O2 bottles refilled without a prescription?
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: not sure of the regs on those here but I see green O2 bottles for sale on CL all the time
08:14 PM roycroft: so that seems to have worked out well
08:15 PM roycroft: the 1/2" tap calls for a 27/64" tap drill for a 75% thread
08:15 PM roycroft: i grabbed a letter z drill, which is 0.890" smaller
08:15 PM roycroft: and i cut a really nice thread
08:15 PM roycroft: a bolt fits very nicely in it
08:16 PM roycroft: and i realised i can do a quick and dirty ballpark test on how strong the thread is
08:16 PM roycroft: i just have to put a slug of steel in the bottom of the hole
08:16 PM roycroft: then run a bolt down the hole, using a torque wrench
08:16 PM roycroft: and keep torqueing it until i feel it give a little
08:17 PM roycroft: at which point i'll know i've damaged the threads
08:17 PM roycroft: i'm quite certain the thread will be strong enough, but now i'm curious about how strong it really is
08:26 PM jymmmm: Even HF is pricy https://www.harborfreight.com/20-in-high-performance-groove-joint-pliers-64460.html
08:30 PM roycroft: hf have upped their game
08:30 PM roycroft: they have some higher quality stuff than they used to
08:31 PM jymmmm: These are what I borrowed from the neighbor, and they are huge 16.5", HF's 20" are even bigger!!!
08:31 PM roycroft: and also, what we've learned over these past couple years is that all people in this country are really chinese
08:31 PM roycroft: because the chinese are paying the tarrifs
08:31 PM jymmmm: https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-Inc-Straight-Jaw-Alicates/dp/B00004SBCW
08:33 PM jymmmm: Ok, these are better size and they say to compare with "channellock 460" https://www.harborfreight.com/16-in-high-performance-v-jaw-groove-joint-pliers-64464.html
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: yeah how it's always been done, import tariffs paid by the shipper hahahahahaha
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: that'll show em!
09:38 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: I think that's the "shiiping" costs on aliexpress lately... Item $0.44, Shipping $5.25
10:23 PM Thorhian: I got my AC servo today! It's quite the chonker. Can't wait to mess with it later. Thankfully I won't need an extra encoder (I think) for now. V-Belts don't slip much at all below 6000RPM?
10:23 PM jymmmm: woohoo