#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 04 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM XXCoder: one of rare truthful statements they released is "if people can vote by mail, republicans is done". they just lie on why
12:12 AM CaptHindsight: by late June and July Priority was pretty much back to 2 day
12:13 AM CaptHindsight: March - May 3-5 days
12:15 AM CaptHindsight: mail in ballots, postmarked by election day, counting stops when no more ballots show up, "lost ballots" found in anyone possession after 5 days get live snake shoved up their
12:16 AM CaptHindsight: * orifice determined by twitter votes
12:18 AM roycroft: capthindsight: the new postmaster general has cancelled overtime and told postal employees that if they still have deliveries to do at the end of the day to just go home
12:19 AM roycroft: so it's going to get worse than it was at the beginning of the pandemic
12:19 AM roycroft: and the postal service are short staffed and not hiring
12:19 AM roycroft: so no new staff and no ot combined with a tremendous increase in volume means lots of delays and undelivered mail
12:19 AM CaptHindsight: thanks, haven't seen the latest news
12:20 AM roycroft: i have a parcel that was sent from northern california that was due on wednesday
12:20 AM roycroft: it just got rescheduled to next monday
12:20 AM CaptHindsight: knew he is a trump supporter, never deliverd any mail in his life before
12:20 AM roycroft: and it did not get misrouted
12:21 AM CaptHindsight: sound like Russia Post
12:21 AM roycroft: fortunately i won't need it until at least then
12:21 AM roycroft: but yeah
12:21 AM CaptHindsight: Fedex ground was aday early
12:21 AM roycroft: assume anything you need is going to be shipped from china, because it's going to take that long
12:21 AM roycroft: fedex ground have been late on my last three deliveries
12:22 AM CaptHindsight: UPS, late
12:22 AM roycroft: it's not prudent to count on any delivery service being ontime these days
12:22 AM roycroft: so order early
12:23 AM roycroft: the real problem is that amazon and ups are using the usps for last mile on most of their stuff these days
12:23 AM CaptHindsight: we need to start fining people for losing stuff
12:24 AM CaptHindsight: evidence, ballots, etc
12:24 AM roycroft: so even if they do their part well the usps gets to slow things donw
12:24 AM roycroft: maybe people need to start going to church again
12:24 AM roycroft: i'm not big on religion
12:25 AM roycroft: but since this country has lost religion it's turned to politics for its tribalism
12:25 AM norias: i dunno
12:25 AM CaptHindsight: nah just punishments for crimes and "mistakes"
12:25 AM roycroft: and taken things that are apolitical and turned them political
12:25 AM norias: apparently the PostMaster General was the CEO of a logistics company
12:25 AM roycroft: more importantly, he gave the trump campaign lots of money
12:25 AM norias: you can do both
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: he has millions invested in private mail couriers
12:26 AM roycroft: i did not say one cannot
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: so conflict of interest
12:26 AM roycroft: i just said hs political contribution is more important
12:26 AM roycroft: chester arthur is spinning in his grave
12:27 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Does using diodes sound legit? series and/or parallel http://power-topics.blogspot.com/2009/07/operating-power-supplies-in-series.html
12:40 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: yes it works
12:40 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: both series and parallel?
12:40 AM CaptHindsight: for series
12:46 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: is hay available year round? seems like you'd know
12:56 AM roycroft: yes
12:56 AM roycroft: but the hay trucks mostly travel in the summer and fall
12:58 AM CaptHindsight: when it's cut and bailed
12:58 AM CaptHindsight: so you'll have to warehouse yourself from Oct to April
01:04 AM CaptHindsight: good news for monkeys! https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/health/covid-19-vaccine-monkeys.html?surface=home-discovery-vi-prg&fellback=false&req_id=879867469&algo=identity&imp_id=374550043&action=click&module=Science%20%20Technology&pgtype=Homepage
03:35 AM veegee: roycroft I never worked for anyone in any professional capacity. I was a waiter and construction worker in high school but that doesn't really count
03:36 AM veegee: My first real job was when I started my company
03:37 AM veegee: I wouldn't want to work for anyone else anyway, they're almost always greedy little shits. I run my company according to my principles, and those of my partners which we happen to share
03:58 AM veegee: Yay local metal supplier sells brass pipe for reasonable prices. Now I can easily make my own post-filter plumbing so I don't have to take risks with galvanized pipe
04:50 AM veek: any idea what he's using here https://youtu.be/ewkj875qUmk?t=440
04:51 AM veek: that black sticky thingy to the yellow battery wall AND also that white sheet like thingy to the BMS board (a few sec later)
05:10 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:30 AM rmu: veegee: the black thing is gaffer tape
05:31 AM rmu: veegee: the other thing is double sided sticky tape
05:40 AM veek: rmu, thanks
06:14 AM Tom_L: morning
06:33 AM Tom_L: 59F / 79 hi
07:28 AM pink_vampire: hi
07:29 AM veek: what's this https://i.imgur.com/EBKLGfb.png
07:29 AM pink_vampire: blue thing
07:30 AM pink_vampire: no idea what is the context
07:30 AM pink_vampire: veek: ^
07:34 AM veek: it's used to draw curves V/I graph of a solar panel
07:34 AM veek: pink_vampire, https://youtu.be/sU-hSFFwSmo?t=385
07:37 AM pink_vampire: https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Plastic-Engineering-Graphics-Optional/dp/B078K8S8R7/
07:37 AM pink_vampire: it is a flexible ruler
07:40 AM robotustra: what is it for?
07:42 AM veek: thanks
07:42 AM robotustra: ah, got it, but I usually do interpolation on PC, not on a paper
07:47 AM SpeedEvil: you can also use a sheet of paper to do the interpolation, rather than the ruler.
07:47 AM SpeedEvil: (but drawing the line exactly is harder
07:51 AM robotustra: do you have a chip trays on your mills?
08:14 AM Loetmichel: soo, two times 6870 drills later the first vacuum table is done...now to the second one... :-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17933&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:18 AM Loetmichel: had to do the drill in 4 parts 130k gcode lines each. otherwise LinuxCNC would take literally forever to load it.
08:22 AM robotustra: Loetmichel, is it your router?
08:52 AM robotustra: Loetmichel, how are you going to close spare holes on the vacuum table?
08:53 AM Loetmichel: painters tape
08:53 AM Loetmichel: or some waste plastic strips
08:54 AM Loetmichel: robotustra: that whole engclosure is a chip tray ;)
08:56 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTIEvURkxO8
09:06 AM robotustra: Loetmichel, I also have a full enclosure as a chip tray for my router, but I do only dry milling on it
09:06 AM Loetmichel: same
09:06 AM robotustra: but on new mill I think I have to make heavy duty chips tray to be able to do flud colling
09:06 AM robotustra: or at least mist
09:07 AM Loetmichel: mist cooling is fine
09:07 AM Loetmichel: even with that setup that i have
09:07 AM Loetmichel: flood cooloing wouldnt, have to have a hole in the bottom and some sealant on the wood ;)
09:07 AM robotustra: I'm thinking to put some sheet metal inside
09:08 AM robotustra: I got yacht lak
09:09 AM robotustra: but still thinking how to evacuate chips from the tray easy way
09:10 AM robotustra: oh, you have 2 routers?
09:10 AM robotustra: do you keep vacuum on all the time?
09:14 AM Loetmichel: no, only when the machine is running ;)
09:14 AM Loetmichel: but yes, those cheap mini shopvacs die after about a year
09:15 AM Loetmichel: still cheaper than a real vacuum pump considering they are only $50
09:18 AM robotustra: I usually suck chips after milling
09:19 AM robotustra: because my vacuum cleaner is way more laud
09:19 AM Loetmichel: i use the "vacuum bed" shopvacs to clean the machines afterwards,. too
09:19 AM Loetmichel: and yes, they ARE loud
09:20 AM robotustra: I was looking into more silent solution like cyclone
09:20 AM Loetmichel: also they tend to make a sauna out of the small shop
09:20 AM robotustra: I don't know how you can run a vac for a long perioud of time
09:21 AM * roycroft uses hearing protection when he runs a shop vac
09:21 AM robotustra: I mean the exhaust from vacuum is hot
09:22 AM Loetmichel: indeed, the shop is usually only entered with "mickey mouse" hearing protection.
09:23 AM Loetmichel: also it DOES heat up quite fast
09:23 AM Loetmichel: had 52°C in the shop last friday evening
09:23 AM roycroft: i have one shop vac that bothers me a bit
09:23 AM Loetmichel: after 2 CNC routers and 2 800W shopvacs running all day
09:23 AM roycroft: my mill-drill is right next to my drill press, and i use the same shop vac for both
09:24 AM roycroft: the problem being that the drill press primarily drills wood, while the mill-drill machines metal
09:24 AM roycroft: i don't like mixing metal and wood in the same shop vac
09:24 AM roycroft: it makes for weird messes
09:25 AM robotustra: roycroft, yep, I also mix Al with Fe, but the amount is small usually
09:25 AM roycroft: the least objectionable solution is for me to use bags inside that shop vac, which i usually don't use when i'm sucking up metal
09:25 AM Loetmichel: those Vacuum tables are made of 6mm thick resin paper ("pertinax")... the amount of "plastic wool" i had to bring out to the trash can the last few days...
09:26 AM roycroft: the bag will occasinally get a small puncture in it from metal shards, but the contents is still mostly contained
09:26 AM roycroft: the issue is that when wood dust mixes with oily metal it turns into a dense, concrete-like material
09:26 AM roycroft: which is really hard to clean out
09:26 AM robotustra: I see
09:27 AM roycroft: i should really have two shop vacs there, but i don't have room for a second one
09:34 AM robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCSldK1wc
09:35 AM robotustra: roycroft, here it's in russian, but the idea is to make a cyclone which can be put on different tubes
09:35 AM robotustra: and you can keep wood and metal separately
09:35 AM robotustra: and as soon as it's vertical it has small footprint
09:36 AM robotustra: I'm thinking to do similar thing
09:37 AM robotustra: in this case I can have a bucket made from tube
09:38 AM robotustra: different ones for different type of chips
09:38 AM roycroft: i can't watch that
09:38 AM robotustra: why?
09:38 AM robotustra: don't have youtube?
09:38 AM roycroft: the lathe in that video has the chuck wrench set in the chuck
09:38 AM roycroft: i have to avert my eyes whenever the lathe is shown
09:38 AM roycroft: making it unwatchable
09:39 AM robotustra: :)
09:39 AM roycroft: anyway, i have a cyclone chip collector for my main exraction system
09:39 AM robotustra: this guy is actually very talented
09:39 AM roycroft: the problem is that the drill press and mill/drill use a small shop vac
09:39 AM roycroft: and there is no room to do anything more with it - it barely fits as is
09:39 AM robotustra: put a cyclon in between
09:40 AM robotustra: on top of the vacuum
09:41 AM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0080J3QYA
09:41 AM roycroft: this is what i have
09:41 AM roycroft: and there's no room to put anything on top of it
09:41 AM roycroft: it's tucked away in a corner
09:41 AM roycroft: there's barely room to unmount it and pull it out to empty
09:42 AM robotustra: 5 gallons it's like 20 liters
09:43 AM roycroft: i may be moving things around in the shop though, and if i do i might figure out something else
09:43 AM roycroft: yes, it's pretty small
09:43 AM robotustra: I usually trow out things from the room if I don't have enough of space
09:43 AM robotustra: befor starting to move
09:44 AM roycroft: i have a plan to reorganize the space
09:44 AM roycroft: multiple plans, actually
09:44 AM roycroft: it's a matter of time and money to determine how i'll go about it
09:45 AM roycroft: this workbench project is consuming 150% of my shop time right now, and will be for the next month or six weeks
09:45 AM roycroft: it's an important part of the plan though
09:46 AM robotustra: if you are moving ahead - you are moving, all my plans a also long term, because of work of cause :)
09:46 AM robotustra: I mean hobby plans
09:47 AM robotustra: is there any silent vacuum?
09:48 AM jymmmm: Yes, but it sucks
09:48 AM robotustra: which does suction and no motor noise
09:48 AM roycroft: not really silent
09:48 AM * SpeedEvil was wondering about making a positive displacement pump low rpm shop-vac the other day
09:48 AM roycroft: but you can move the noise far away
09:48 AM jymmmm: In the vacuum of space, nobody can hear you scream
09:48 AM SpeedEvil: more seriously also, tehre are much quieter shopvacs
09:49 AM roycroft: yes, and there are mufflers for shop vacs
09:49 AM robotustra: SpeedEvil, what construction?
09:49 AM roycroft: my roll-around shop vac is remarkably quiet
09:49 AM roycroft: with the muffler on
09:49 AM SpeedEvil: roycroft: i was initially wondering about three double-acting pistons
09:49 AM roycroft: the little workstation ones are pretty noisy though, and don't have the ability to add mufflers
09:50 AM roycroft: i.e. they only suck, and do not have blow ports
09:51 AM roycroft: but i have good hearing protection, and i mostly use the workstation ones for cleanup at the end of a job, not during the job
09:51 AM roycroft: my drill press notwithstanding
09:51 AM roycroft: and since the drill press is fairly quiet, it's kind of annoying that i have to use hearing protection with it because of the shop vac
09:52 AM roycroft: i should probably tie it into my dust collection system, which is quieter
09:52 AM roycroft: and would also isolate the wood chips from the metal - that wall-hung shop vac could be dedicated to the mill-drill
09:53 AM roycroft: that is something i'm accomodating in my shop reorganiztion plans
09:54 AM roycroft: so today is tuesday
09:54 AM roycroft: i have a parcel due to arrive that is at my local post office
09:54 AM roycroft: it is scheduled for delivery on thursday
09:55 AM roycroft: and the one from northern california is in portland now, originally due to be delivered tomorrow, but still scheduled for monday next
10:36 AM Tom_L: .
10:40 AM jymmmm: .
10:41 AM Tom_L: no point in re'reading all that stuff
10:52 AM CaptHindsight: those two Matsuura 500's are down to scrap price $600ea or best
10:56 AM Tom_L: surprised they're still there
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: the economy is in the shitter, won't be able to give them away soon
10:57 AM Tom_L: may be like oil and have to pay to haul them off
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: as the pageantry of stupidity marches on
11:02 AM CaptHindsight: $700 https://www.ebay.com/itm/MAXNC-10-CNC-Mini-Mill-Pristine-Condition-Classic-Micro-Mill-Upgraded/274443993428
11:03 AM CaptHindsight: 4-axis mill with crappy drives $1200 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Paxtron-cnc-mini-mill-machine/153862807281
11:05 AM CaptHindsight: lots of CNC Mori lathes for <$3k
11:05 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Heh, I was expecting the listing to actually say "...with crappy drives" :D
11:06 AM Thorhian: Wait, CNC lathes for less than 3k usd?
11:07 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=cnc+lathe&_sacat=0&_sop=15&rt=nc&_udhi=6%2C900
11:08 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: sorry my brain just swaps TB6560 to shit
11:09 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Nothing wrong with that, just thought someone was being honest in a listing "The drives are not the best, but the machine works well" sorta thing.
11:09 AM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: ^^
11:10 AM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: prefiltered https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=cnc%20lathe&_sacat=0&_sop=15&_udhi=3500&rt=nc&_udlo=400
11:12 AM Thorhian: Oh gosh.
11:12 AM Thorhian: That's well below scrap price of steel and iron used to build the machine isn't it?!
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: there abouts
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: machine lovers that just don't want to see it go to waste
11:17 AM robotustra: some toys: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spectralight-Prolight-Cnc-Lathe-Mini-Desktop-Benchtop-with-scorbot-robot-arm/254672537601
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: scrap around here is 4 cent per pound USD
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: food, rent or CNC
11:19 AM Thorhian: I can't even find a CNC mill that is as good of a deal as the Mori Seiki I saw in that search.
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: unless congress passes the new bailout soon, expect more surplus
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: the reality bubble is strong
11:21 AM jymmmm: You can sleep on/in the cnc =)
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: that to
11:21 AM jymmmm: ...and will make you money
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: or eat
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: can, if, you have customers
11:21 AM jymmmm: grilled cheese motor drive heat sinks???
11:21 AM jymmmm: can't if you dont have cnc
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: I've been living in my reality distortion field for years so you're all just a bunch of whiners (satire ends)
11:23 AM jymmmm: haha, go play with your 50 ton crane already
11:24 AM jymmmm: Hmmm $18 shipped for two https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-of-2-HP-Proliant-511777-001-460W-Power-Supply-499249-001-for-DL360-DL380-G6/192488765502
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: another angel goes to heaven
11:24 AM jymmmm: That's a 24VDC@38A PS
11:24 AM Thorhian: Lol jymmmm, got another banggood email early this morning.
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: pretty sure it's when a bell rings or you get a good deal
11:25 AM jymmmm: Thorhian: what they say?
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: 狗吃了
11:31 AM roycroft: so i've decided to use fedex ground instead of usps priority mail to ensure that shipments arrive in time
11:31 AM roycroft: i just dropped a parcel off at an authorized shipping center and they almost refused to scan it in and give me a receipt
11:32 AM roycroft: i don't want to have to argue with someone about something so simple
11:32 AM SpeedEvil: Buy shares in fedex/upS ;/
11:32 AM * roycroft is not sure what to do any more
11:32 AM roycroft: i'd rather support the usps
11:33 AM roycroft: i'm really unhappy that there is such a concerted effort to destroy it
11:33 AM jymmmm: roycroft: USPS is now offering bonuses
11:34 AM roycroft: for what? early retirement?
11:34 AM roycroft: burning ballots?
11:34 AM roycroft: running over amazon.com packages with their trucks?
11:35 AM jymmmm: roycroft: For shipping priority mail bonuses
11:35 AM roycroft: then why are priority mail parcels taking 5 days instead of 2 all of a sudden?
11:36 AM roycroft: btw, the parcel i just shipped cost less via fedex ground than usps priority mail
11:36 AM CaptHindsight: : scan it in, I make minimum wage you upstart (hah they wouldn't know what an upstart is) and you want me to scan it?
11:36 AM roycroft: i've had two parcels "disappear" in the past because i just put them in the pile at the shipping place
11:37 AM roycroft: i'll never do that again
11:37 AM jymmmm: roycroft: Yeah, priority mail is easy, but they jumped the prices WAY TOO HIGH
11:37 AM roycroft: carrier claims they never got it so won't pay insurance
11:37 AM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: they have been trying to kill USPS for years, doubt they can finish it off in 90 days
11:37 AM roycroft: jymmmm: i get decent discounts buying usps priority mail on ebay
11:37 AM CaptHindsight: will likely backfire as well
11:37 AM roycroft: capthindsight: they're doing a really good job of it now
11:37 AM jymmmm: roycroft: link?
11:38 AM roycroft: to what?
11:38 AM roycroft: the ebay discounts?
11:38 AM jymmmm: yeah
11:38 AM roycroft: sell stuff on ebay and a link will show up
11:38 AM roycroft: it's just for ebay sales, not general parcels
11:38 AM jymmmm: roycroft: ebay or paypal link?
11:38 AM roycroft: i'm not giving you access to my ebay account
11:38 AM SpeedEvil: https://twitter.com/USPS/status/1285620695188344834
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: it's pretty transparent what they are up to now after things got back to normal shipping times
11:39 AM CaptHindsight: unless you live in the bubble
11:39 AM roycroft: even if you live in the bubble it's transparent, because it's been publicly announced
11:39 AM roycroft: all overtime is cancelled
11:40 AM roycroft: if you're not done deliving your stuff by the end of the day just go home
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: the bubble is strong
11:40 AM roycroft: if you ship something delivery time is now 4-5 days intstead of 2-3 days via priority mail
11:40 AM roycroft: the president ranted again about the usps subsidising amazon, when the truth is that amazon are saving the usps
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: cause liberals!
11:41 AM roycroft: the president rants about mail in voting fraud
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: satire ^^
11:41 AM roycroft: orders his postmaster general to cancel all overtime
11:41 AM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: those are kinda cool stamps =)
11:41 AM roycroft: and then immediately proclaimed that we cannot have mail in voting because the usps cannot handle it
11:41 AM roycroft: it's the typical right wing approach to the usps - self fulfilling prophesies
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: roycroft: those are just facts, they will not persuade me!
11:42 AM roycroft: they required the usps to pre-fund retirment benefits for 75 years up front
11:42 AM roycroft: then mandated that the usps cannot run in the red
11:42 AM roycroft: and then claimed that we must eliminate the usps because is incapable of running in the black
11:42 AM CaptHindsight: head hurts, must watch Fox to sooth pain
11:42 AM roycroft: no other company or government in the world pre-funds retirement benefits for 75 years
11:42 AM roycroft: not even remotely approaching that
11:43 AM CaptHindsight: satire ^^
11:43 AM roycroft: this is not a 'liberal' thing
11:43 AM roycroft: it's a truth vs. stupidity thing
11:43 AM roycroft: that has no ideology
11:43 AM Thorhian: roycroft: Are you a USPS employee?
11:43 AM roycroft: no
11:43 AM Thorhian: I was just curious lol
11:43 AM roycroft: and i'm glad i'm not
11:44 AM roycroft: but i strongly believe that it's an essential service
11:44 AM Thorhian: I'm really glad it exists lol
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: just old news that people seem to be unaware of since it's on every commercial break
11:44 AM roycroft: and in fact is the only commerce activity that is directly stipulated in the constitution as a role of government
11:44 AM CaptHindsight: since it's not on
11:45 AM Thorhian: What are you saying CaptHindsight?
11:45 AM CaptHindsight: just old news that people seem to be unaware of since it's NOT on every commercial break
11:45 AM Thorhian: What is the old news, the USPS?
11:46 AM CaptHindsight: too much info make brain hurt
11:46 AM CaptHindsight: yes USPS info
11:46 AM CaptHindsight: when brain hurt watch Fox, make brain not hurt
11:47 AM Thorhian: Ah I see. Personally my brain hurts whenever I want mainstream news in general, whether it be Fox, CNN, or NBC.
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: (spoken with Frankenstein voice)
11:48 AM CaptHindsight: yeah all are pretty bad, I actually miss news
11:50 AM Thorhian: The problem is that it's hard to find people who actually have contacts on the ground. I've tended to gravitate towards Tim Pool lately since I usually get a lot more info from him than reading articles from typical news sites.
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: Reuters, AP
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: most of the rest depends on which spin you want on it
11:51 AM roycroft: official documents and interviews with actual lawmakers/etc. is a good way of getting at the truth
11:51 AM Thorhian: Very true statements.
11:52 AM roycroft: not that lawmakers tell the truth necessarily
11:52 AM Thorhian: Lol
11:52 AM roycroft: but hearing the words that come out of their mouths is better than hearing some talking head discuss the words that alllegedly come out of their mouths
11:52 AM roycroft: that's all i'm saying
11:52 AM Thorhian: Yep
11:52 AM roycroft: actual policy documents and laws are better
11:53 AM roycroft: hearing people talk about the usps is one thing
11:53 AM roycroft: shipping something priority mail and having the usps website tell you it's going to take 5 days is another thing
11:53 AM Thorhian: I just wish laws aren't so freaking long (hundreds of pages for some or more from what I have seen).
11:54 AM Thorhian: Bills I should say
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: room for argument
11:54 AM roycroft: and there are some objective sites around still
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: lawyers need work too
11:54 AM roycroft: fivethirtyeight.com and scotusblog.com being two notable examples
11:55 AM roycroft: and i know about facts having "liberal bias", and therefor the arguments about the raw truth not being objective
11:55 AM roycroft: since "alternative facts" must be considered
11:55 AM CaptHindsight: they really don't
11:55 AM roycroft: that crap is a lot worse on the right, but the left are quite capable and adept at putting their heads in the sand as well
11:55 AM roycroft: just ignore things that don't fit the narrative
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: that is just social engineering
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: i have something dumb to say and my voice counts as well, just like show-and-tell
11:56 AM roycroft: i am coming to believe more and more this is in large part what i was discussing last night - that politics is supplanting religion as people's tribal affiliation as we see the decline in religion in the west
11:57 AM jdh: what decline
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: see you are just suppose to listen (or pretend to) then use the rational part of your brain to ignore that
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: problem solved
11:57 AM roycroft: there's been a significant decline in the percentage of the population who say they are religious
11:58 AM Thorhian: Yep
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: nah religion is one of the problems
11:58 AM roycroft: just because the hard-core fundies are louder than ever does not mean religion is thriving
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: it disconnects people from reality
11:58 AM roycroft: it's really declining rapidly
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: ans each other
11:59 AM roycroft: anyway
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: doing what is best for one another should be based on reality vs some pleasing of an invisible sky man
11:59 AM roycroft: one more small lamination today and then i can start laminating the bench top and legs
11:59 AM CaptHindsight: and then re ar those that would argue whats is best is for them is doing what is only best for them
11:59 AM roycroft: the stretchers are already laminated and machined to final size
12:00 PM * roycroft is going to start seeing real progress soon
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: since they see how they are connected to everything else
12:00 PM CaptHindsight: or don't see
12:00 PM Thorhian: Nice roycroft!
12:01 PM roycroft: i'm a little concerned about the benchtop
12:02 PM CaptHindsight: religion is another reality distortion field
12:02 PM roycroft: even though it's a split top, the two halves are still going to be very heavy
12:02 PM roycroft: and i really want to run it through the thicknesser after i'm done laminating the pieces
12:02 PM Thorhian: jymmmm: "Thank you for your feedback regarding order/ We want to express our genuine apology for all inconvenience cased. We will ask our supplier and relevant staff to check the issue. So sorry for the inconvenience caused."
12:04 PM roycroft: i'm estimating each laminated bench top slab will weigh about 60-70kg
12:04 PM roycroft: that's a lot of weight for me to move around
12:06 PM Thorhian: Also, Cap, just know that even though I don't totally agree with your views, especially since I am a religious person, just know that I am still thankful for the help you given me here on the IRC chat, especially some of your PMs when I first came here :)
12:06 PM roycroft: thorhian: i'm not anti-religion, please understand that
12:07 PM Thorhian: roycroft is CaptHindsight confirmed?
12:07 PM jdh: I am.
12:07 PM roycroft: i think it should have no part in our government, but i don't look down on people of faith
12:07 PM jdh: why not
12:08 PM Tom_L: it's integrated in our money
12:08 PM roycroft: it shouldn't be
12:08 PM roycroft: but there are a lot bigger battles than that one
12:08 PM Thorhian: I mean, it's totally in your right to jdh to do so. *shruh* Not like I control your mind.
12:09 PM Tom_L: sure hope we're not making up for yesterday
12:10 PM Thorhian: XD
12:10 PM Tom_L: was actually OT yesterday
12:11 PM Thorhian: I'm currently watching and waiting to see if Starship SN5 will hop today. They just scrubbed a little while ago, might try again in a while.
12:31 PM veegee: I'm pretty anti religion
12:31 PM veegee: believing in a sky god is like believing in santa claus
12:32 PM veegee: it's ok if you're a little kid, but simply unacceptable if you're an adult
12:34 PM veegee: but it might be a good thing, helps me quickly spot the idiots in the world
12:37 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: eeeesh, they are ignoring you now. just contact PP and be done with it
12:56 PM robotustra: veegee, what about aliens?
12:56 PM robotustra: do you believe in them?
12:58 PM veegee: robotustra in a universe this huge, the probability of life outside of Earth is significant
12:59 PM robotustra: veegee, do you know Bob Lazar?
12:59 PM veegee: I don't "believe" in things based on feelings. I trust logic and reasoning and mathematics and physics
12:59 PM veegee: no I don't
12:59 PM robotustra: He was working with real alien aircrafts in the zone-51
01:00 PM veegee: That would be really cool to see, but no way to know if that's true or not
01:00 PM veegee: If it's true, they'll never let us know about it
01:00 PM robotustra: of cause FBI and other agencies tried to prevent leaks and make Bob Lazar a fool
01:00 PM veegee: I would imagine they would assassinate him
01:01 PM robotustra: no, he is alive
01:01 PM veegee: government tends to kill people when they really don't want things to get out
01:01 PM robotustra: and still tell his story
01:02 PM veegee: So that makes me wonder if he's telling the truth or if he's just crazy
01:02 PM veegee: Know Jamal Khashoggi? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Jamal_Khashoggi
01:02 PM robotustra: anyway, I mean that it doesn't matter in what you beleive or how you beleive, there are things in real world which exists in spite of our beleives
01:02 PM veegee: He was assassinated with the full knowledge of the american government
01:03 PM veegee: robotustra exactly, doesn't matter what we believe
01:03 PM robotustra: god could be a primitive abstraction in our mind with comparison to the real world truth
01:03 PM veegee: all I'm saying is that there's no way for me to know because there's not enough to go on
01:03 PM robotustra: :)
01:04 PM veegee: god may very well exist, but the important thing is that there's no way to know
01:04 PM veegee: santa claus may exist as well
01:05 PM veegee: the point is, there's no logic or reason or evidence, so the stupidity is the belief part
01:05 PM veegee: if we don't have repeatable, scientific evidence, then it's pointless
01:05 PM robotustra: existance by itself is very complex thing as soon as representation of things could be different
01:05 PM robotustra: depending on what you are
01:05 PM veegee: and the types of people that don't need logic or reason or evidence are the morons that I stay away from
01:06 PM veegee: that is also true and means different things to different people
01:06 PM veegee: but I'm talking about the low IQ general public here
01:06 PM veegee: the ones that have no idea what the scientific method is or what science is all about
01:07 PM roycroft: veegee: with all due respect, shut the fuck up, you arrogant, condescending little imp
01:07 PM roycroft: thank you very much
01:07 PM robotustra: :)
01:07 PM veegee: roycroft lol touched a nerve did I
01:07 PM roycroft: i don't like people like you and i don't like to be around people like you
01:08 PM veegee: then leave?
01:08 PM roycroft: i try to see the good and the value in all people
01:08 PM veegee: no you don't
01:08 PM roycroft: yes, i do
01:08 PM veegee: and I don't care
01:08 PM roycroft: obviously
01:08 PM veegee: there's an ignore button on your IRC client, you're free to use it
01:08 PM roycroft: i don't like doing that
01:08 PM roycroft: and i'm not going to call you out constantly
01:09 PM roycroft: but it's likely to happen once in a while
01:09 PM veegee: for your age, you really don't know how to have a civilized debate
01:10 PM veegee: shouting vulgar expletives is not exactly how to start one
01:10 PM veegee: also you have one really high horse there
01:10 PM veegee: maybe come back down to earth first
01:19 PM Thorhian: Yikes you two. You really just go at eachother.
01:20 PM veegee: It's actually one sided, he goes after me
01:20 PM veegee: I never go after him
01:21 PM veegee: He has a holier than thou attitude and doesn't know how to process it rationally
01:21 PM Thorhian: I'm just saying, you two don't like each other lol.
01:22 PM veegee: No I like him
01:22 PM veegee: I think he just has some issues to work out. There are other factors in his life influencing his emotion and he takes it out here from time to time
01:26 PM robotustra: there are people who clever and people who think that they are clever, and these two sets are never intersecting
01:28 PM veegee: lol!
01:28 PM veegee: robotustra what are you hinting at >:(
01:29 PM robotustra: :)
01:29 PM veegee: ooooh I just thought of a clever pickup line robotustra: if you were a set and I were a set, we'd be intersecting all the time baby
01:29 PM robotustra: never mind
01:30 PM veegee: does that count as clever
01:30 PM veegee: would that work on you?
01:32 PM robotustra: I don't think I'm clever, but as soon as I can think - possibly I'm not so dumb
01:32 PM robotustra: it's good enough for me
01:33 PM robotustra: I like a Shrodinger cat in between
01:33 PM veegee: I got a new shop cat
01:33 PM robotustra: I think it's the cat who got new place of living
01:34 PM veegee: Forces me to child proof the place
01:34 PM robotustra: The more I observe my cat the more I think we live with him but not he with us
01:34 PM veegee: Right now I have the air compressor running without its belt guard because I plan to swap the motor within the next couple of week
01:35 PM veegee: robotustra I have no idea why people think that, cats are very loyal and obedient and loving
01:35 PM robotustra: after you make your shop cat-proof, bring a dog and repeat
01:35 PM veegee: But I probably should put the belt guard back on, it would break bones if any animal got a limb stuck between the belt and flywheel
01:36 PM veegee: it's a 7.5kW motor, going to upgrade to a 11kW
01:36 PM robotustra: if the cat put the tail in it - i will be no fun
01:37 PM veegee: it's high above the ground, around neck level
01:37 PM veegee: the cat would have to intentionally jump to do it, but they're curious animals so I don't want to take the risk
01:37 PM robotustra: cats could climb up
01:38 PM robotustra: my cat is way to curious
01:38 PM veegee: yeah I had the circuit breaker panel with the cover off for the longest time too
01:38 PM robotustra: when I say "my cat" I mean "the cat that lives in our appartment and we with him"
01:40 PM veegee: They're just as much of a pet as a dog, they're no more demanding. I have 2 now and cared for many others and never seen one that doesn't treat you like its parents
01:40 PM veegee: they come and cuddle up beside you when you sleep, it's the cutest thing ever
01:41 PM veegee: also they don't smell funny and keep themselves really clean
01:41 PM robotustra: my cat was grown in a pride of 6 cats living in a private house up to 4 months
01:41 PM robotustra: it's kind of autonomus not very friendly
01:41 PM veegee: if they bond with you, they treat you like you're their world
01:42 PM robotustra: when he doesn't want to eat
01:42 PM veegee: yeah your cat probably didn't bond with you fully
01:42 PM robotustra: My cat consider humans like walking trees and food fall sometimes from that trees
01:43 PM veegee: mine follow me around everywhere and meow and roll over next to my feet and purr and ask for petting
01:43 PM veegee: You have to give them a lot of affection and attention at first and not always treats
01:44 PM veegee: I keep their food/water always filled so they can eat whenever they want. They know I fill the food bowl but when they come to me, it's never to ask for food because they already always have it
01:45 PM veegee: You also have to annoy them from time to time as much as they annoy you. Clipping nails, deshedding, brushing their teeth etc. They don't like it, but you're the boss and they know it
01:49 PM robotustra: I have specially trained people to do that
01:49 PM veegee: lol! you gotta do it yourself, that's how you bond with them
01:50 PM veegee: they get friendlier with you that way as well
02:04 PM veegee: Damn, I have weird greases all over the place. I really hope the kitty cat doesn't step in it and lick it off his fur
02:08 PM Tom_L: good i'm not an op is all
02:08 PM Tom_L: you got problems take it up in pm
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: censorship, there you go
02:10 PM Tom_L: channels have names and topics for a good reason
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: good thing this channel is not your lawn
02:13 PM veegee: Thinking of getting a Cincinnati #2 mill
02:14 PM XXCoder: unreal again?
02:14 PM veegee: I love old machine tools. Beautiful design
02:14 PM Thorhian: What?
02:15 PM robotustra: it's too big
02:16 PM veegee: Yeah it's rock solid
02:16 PM veegee: 5,500 lbs
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: lots of CNC lathes on ebay for under $3k
02:16 PM XXCoder: not surpised, most companies just dont need lathe
02:16 PM XXCoder: so usually have just one somewhere
02:16 PM veegee: CaptHindsight I'm just going to convert my lathe to CNC
02:18 PM veegee: it's modern so it shouldn't be that hard. It's direct drive with a VFD and has sensors on the Y (?) axis already for constant surface speed
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: same for VMC's
02:18 PM Thorhian: Wait, VMCs? Really?
02:19 PM veegee: Under $3,000?
02:19 PM veegee: impossibru
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: yeah 2x matsuura 500's for $600 or best each and lots more
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: what area are you located near/in?
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: scrap prices lately
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=vertical%20machining%20center&_sop=16&_udhi=3,500&rt=nc&_udlo=400
02:22 PM veegee: damn
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-MATSUURA-MC-500V-CNC-with-YASNAC-3000G-control/283531831618
02:22 PM veegee: I have an engine crane that looks exactly like this: https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/rnr-5150105_ii_xl.jpg
02:22 PM veegee: I should be able to hook up a hydraulic pump to it yeah?
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: sure
02:22 PM veegee: Just replace the hand pump piston which seems to be attached via a threaded connector
02:23 PM veegee: Just have to figure out how to deal with the return flow
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: dump in back into the reservoir
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: the fluid has to come from somewhere to enter the pump
02:26 PM veegee: Yeah I meant figure out where the return port is on the hydraulic cylinder
02:26 PM veegee: if there's no port, might have to drill and tap one
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: one port
02:27 PM veegee: CaptHindsight say again?
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: or use two lines and a valve to block return
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: block return the piston fills
02:28 PM veegee: OHH
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: open return the piston empties
02:28 PM veegee: got it,
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: no problem
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: or in Australian, no worries
02:28 PM veegee: I think it works like this at the m oment, right: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1a36e763070397735263d2fe6e9a1939
02:29 PM veegee: That one port is being used for both purposes
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, the valve is a screw
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: the drawing does show how the return works
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: it's just a screw that blocks or opens a return from the high side toe the reservoir
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: toe/to
02:31 PM veegee: understood
02:31 PM veegee: so yeah I can just stick a hydraulic hose right into that port and be done with it
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: yes
02:38 PM _unreal_: bldc HIGH SPEED spindle motor. should I put the shield wire to EARTH ground as in electrical outlet ground? or DC voltage ground?
02:38 PM _unreal_: shield wire for the 3 wires going to the motor
02:38 PM _unreal_: I assume it should go to earth ground
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: earth
02:40 PM _unreal_: so plug it into the blue marble
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: but you also want to avoid ground loops
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: so star grounds are easy to see and best
02:43 PM _unreal_: I just put a stainless mesh type shield around the lead wires going to the BLDC spindle motor
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://asgmt.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf-docs/2008/1/068.pdf
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: Grounding Practices for Automation Controls
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: Understanding the Key Elements and Resolving Common Problems
02:44 PM veegee: Hmm that old abandoned forklift in the parking lot still has all its internals including a hydraulic pump
02:44 PM veegee: free components yay!
02:44 PM _unreal_: My ground plain choices are -DC of the switching PSU or EARTH ground of the switching psu. the shielding is not connected to any wires. its just a shield because of the high FREQ produced by the BLDC spindle
02:45 PM _unreal_: so as I said I assume earth ground is what I want to connect the shielding to
02:45 PM _unreal_: it is ELECTRICALY isolated for all wires. its just to protect the electronics from the BLDC spindle
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: Earth
02:51 PM roycroft: a rather large topic, capthindsight
02:52 PM roycroft: although in the grand scheme of things, it's just a tiny little speck
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: grounding to Mars is rather difficult
02:53 PM roycroft: not if your name is marvin or ming
04:05 PM Thorhian: CaptHindsight: I'm closer to the west coast.
04:07 PM Thorhian: Also, those VMCs.... If they weren't so gigantic I might have bought one before building my mill.
04:07 PM Thorhian: Why the heck are they trying to get rid of them I wonder? Too old?
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: older and going out of business
05:00 PM _unreal_: cant for the life of me figure out how to get the speed control working
05:00 PM _unreal_: but I did get direction control working
05:00 PM _unreal_: so the new spindle is now working
05:01 PM _unreal_: the only steps left are getting the limit switches setup and working
05:03 PM _unreal_: ok at this point looks like I can start putting most of the shell back together
05:05 PM _unreal_: no one live?
05:05 PM Tom_L: no
05:07 PM _unreal_: the fan in this new spindle is a JOKE
05:08 PM _unreal_: ok so i'm currently using the 48v psu just for testing,
05:08 PM _unreal_: the shell gets rather hot running full speed
05:08 PM _unreal_: Ihave not found a temp spec on this spindle yet
05:09 PM _unreal_: I'm just letting the the spindle break in at 5krpm right now
05:10 PM _unreal_: one thing is for sure, the spindle is not super well balanced
05:10 PM _unreal_: full speed I get vibrations
05:11 PM _unreal_: not BAD but CLEARLY vibrations
05:42 PM roycroft: are you diggin' those good vibrations?
05:47 PM _unreal_: just ordered a 36v 10amp switcher should be here FRI
06:02 PM Tom_L: mmm that guy configuring his Rpi4 hasn't been back has he?
06:11 PM robotustra: nicht versteen https://martin-prochnow.de/electronics/zss600-001-100b-5l
06:12 PM robotustra: but code is clear
06:16 PM Tom_L: robotustra, that yours?
06:17 PM Tom_L: robotustra: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/avr/atmega328/PCINT0/quadrature/
06:20 PM Thorhian: jymmmm: I just opened a dispute with banggood.
06:22 PM _unreal_: liking this new spindle
06:26 PM Tom_L: i'm a step closer to getting one
06:46 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: Huh? Who have you been emailing all this time?
06:47 PM Tom_L: explosion in Beirut felt 140 mi away
06:50 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest82459
06:54 PM robotustra: Tom_L, no
06:55 PM Tom_L: you making an mpg for your lathe?
06:57 PM robotustra: not exactly but yes
06:57 PM robotustra: I want to use encoder both for MPG and powerfeed
06:58 PM robotustra: in powerfeed mode encoder will regulate the feed speed
06:59 PM robotustra: can MPG do constant feed?
07:03 PM Thorhian: banggood directly jymmmm
07:03 PM Tom_L: robotustra, if you can crank it constantly
07:04 PM BitEvil is now known as Speedevil
07:05 PM robotustra: my idea is to make feed rate proportional to the angle
07:05 PM Speedevil is now known as SpeedEvil
07:05 PM robotustra: and direction
07:05 PM Tom_L: yeah, i dunno
07:12 PM robotustra: why not?
07:12 PM robotustra: it's simple
07:13 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53656220
07:13 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: Hmmm, I would have open a dispute after the first BS email
07:14 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, i've seen footage
07:16 PM Tom_L: too much Ammonium Nitrage stored there, hard to say if accident or not
07:25 PM Thorhian: Well I escalated it to paypal telling them what happened jymmmm
07:25 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: ah ok
07:28 PM Thorhian: I now know a lot better now lol
08:18 PM skunkworks: robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9QqVx3_RgA
08:21 PM Tom_L: sam, have you ever noticed the brown 'active' gcode line gets lost while running a file?
08:21 PM Tom_L: i've had that happen a couple times but not consistent
08:48 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: Yeah, sorry that happened to you, it shouldn't be that way. AliExpress support is pretty damn good actually
08:49 PM robotustra: skunkworks, cool, but it's not wnat I want
08:49 PM robotustra: actually I just did what I wanted
08:49 PM robotustra: in arduino :)
08:49 PM robotustra: don't trow tomatos in me
08:50 PM robotustra: I use what I have
08:50 PM Tom_L: just eggs
08:50 PM robotustra: I did an powerfeed controller with encoder
08:50 PM robotustra: which can work in 2 modes
08:50 PM Tom_L: nice
08:51 PM robotustra: step mode and continuous
08:51 PM robotustra: where encoder increase/decrease/reverse the feed
08:51 PM robotustra: it means you just set the speed and don't crank the weel
08:52 PM robotustra: I also have to add movable limiters to inputs
08:52 PM robotustra: to stop feed
08:55 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, on the green machine are you controlling the spindle speed thru linuxcnc or is the encoder hooked back into the stmbl driver?
08:56 PM Tom_L: (does the loop include or exclude linuxcnc)
08:56 PM Tom_L: looking at a bldc setup and i think i can probably do it either way
08:57 PM Tom_L: one way would use my current spindle encoder and the other would be current feedback to the controller
08:57 PM robotustra: https://imgur.com/a/1ZddVL2
08:58 PM robotustra: what is stmbl driver?
08:59 PM Tom_L: https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/stmbl_servo_motor_drive.html
09:00 PM robotustra: skunkworks, how to you move through the path?
09:03 PM robotustra: ah, adaptive pin..
09:03 PM jymmmm: robotustra: one foot in front of the other grasshopper
09:04 PM robotustra: jymmmm, what is it about?
09:09 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: there is an encoder on the spindle motor that goes to the stmbl
09:10 PM skunkworks: a 2nd encoder that goes to linuxcnc.
09:11 PM skunkworks: mainly because there isnt 1:1 gearing to between the spindle and motor
09:12 PM skunkworks: *2nd encoder is on the spindle
09:13 PM Tom_L: i'm wondering if it's better to let the drive control the spindle speed or send the feedback back to linuxcnc
09:14 PM Tom_L: mine isn't quite 1:1 either
09:14 PM Tom_L: don't the 2 encoders conflict with each other?
09:15 PM jymmmm: robotustra: "...how to you move through the path?" lol
09:15 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, did you watch the video?
09:16 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: which, n the link I gave? No
09:16 PM Tom_L: no, sam's link
09:16 PM jymmmm: no
09:18 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, i suppose you would need one going back to linuxcnc if you do any sort of sync motion
09:24 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: just watched it, kinda cool =)
09:25 PM roycroft: i'm having flashbacks to my telco days
09:26 PM roycroft: when i worked for the telco, the procedure for installing racks in a central office was to drill holes for the anchor bolts, fill the holes with cement
09:26 PM roycroft: and when they're full, drill them again and install the anchor bolts
09:26 PM roycroft: we had to do that because there were often voids in the floor that would weaken the bolts
09:27 PM roycroft: often times we'd mix up a big batch of cement for four small holes, and keep pouring and pouring and pouring and pouring the cement as it found the voids and slowly filled them
09:27 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, that's where robotustra's comment came from
09:27 PM roycroft: i was just filling some cracks and a couple knot holes in my workbench lumber
09:27 PM roycroft: i mixed up way more epoxy than i though i could possibly use
09:27 PM roycroft: but i kept pouring and pouring and pouring and pouring
09:28 PM roycroft: and had to mix up a second batch
09:28 PM roycroft: i guess i need an x-ray machine to look at the internal structure of things
09:28 PM Tom_L: roycroft, did you ever wonder if that cement was dropping on someone's head in the basement?
09:29 PM roycroft: we were not allowed on the lower floor
09:29 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: oh gotcha, I was more being funny about grsshopper
09:29 PM roycroft: i did not work for the telco that owned the central offices
09:29 PM roycroft: i worked for a clec
09:29 PM roycroft: so no
09:29 PM roycroft: those areas were off limits
09:29 PM roycroft: so to us they did not exist
09:31 PM roycroft: a floor bolt anchor hole is about 1" in diameter and 5" deep
09:31 PM roycroft: sometimes we'd pour 2-3 gallons of cement in the hole
09:32 PM roycroft: this was always a week-long operation, of course
09:32 PM roycroft: we'd drill and fill one day
09:32 PM roycroft: wait for it to kick off
09:32 PM roycroft: wait for inspection
09:32 PM roycroft: then we could schedule a time to redrill
09:32 PM roycroft: of course, after we redrilled we had to wait for an inspection
09:32 PM roycroft: then schedule the rack installatin
09:32 PM roycroft: install it
09:32 PM roycroft: wait for inspection
09:33 PM roycroft: one learns patience when working in a telco central office
09:34 PM roycroft: and before any of these steps we'd have to write up a mop (method of procedure), post the mop in our area, inform the co manager that we've posted it, and then wait for him to sign off on the mop before performing the procedure
09:35 PM robotustra: absourd
09:35 PM Tom_L: no damn wonder my bill was so high
09:35 PM robotustra: what you are describing
09:35 PM roycroft: it's actually good to have procedures like that
09:35 PM roycroft: the problem is that the ilec did not want us there
09:35 PM robotustra: it sounds like burocracy
09:35 PM roycroft: and so they dragged everything out for as long as possible
09:36 PM roycroft: internally they could go through the whole process in a day
09:36 PM roycroft: but for outsiders like us, they could drag a simple procedure out for weeks
09:37 PM roycroft: in one city, they refused to let us install our own racks
09:37 PM roycroft: they insisted on having their own people do it
09:37 PM roycroft: but they subcontracted it out
09:37 PM roycroft: charged us about 5x what it would cost us to do it internally
09:37 PM roycroft: and the subcontractors did not do it properly
09:37 PM roycroft: so the racks failed inspection
09:38 PM roycroft: we still had to pay for the installation
09:38 PM roycroft: and then we had to remove everything and redo it correctly
09:38 PM robotustra: horror stories
09:39 PM roycroft: and it was 10x harder to do that way, because the ladder rack had already been installed above our racks, and all the power cables had been run to to the racks before we failed the inspection (all that on their schedule, not ours)
09:39 PM roycroft: so we had to build temporary supports for the ladder rack and the thousands of pounds of power cables that were on top of it before we could remove and reinstall our racks
09:39 PM roycroft: and then we had to move the ladder rack to our new rack location
09:40 PM Rab: <jymmmm> Hmmm $18 shipped for two https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-of-2-HP-Proliant-511777-001-460W-Power-Supply-499249-001-for-DL360-DL380-G6/192488765502
09:40 PM roycroft: the power plants are all dc in central offices, and the power source was far far away from our racks
09:40 PM roycroft: so we had some ginormous power cables run to the racs
09:40 PM roycroft: dc doesn't travel well
09:41 PM Rab: jymmmm, more power: https://www.ebay.com/itm/263405357062
09:42 PM Rab: Same size, same connector.
09:43 PM jymmmm: Rab: IT's 12V, the listing I should is two units
09:43 PM jymmmm: showed*
09:44 PM Rab: jymmmm, indeed, but the DPS-1200FB has a known method for isolating the output from the case so you can run two in series. I don't know if that is possible for the 460W Proliant PSU.
09:44 PM jymmmm: Rab: I have some diodes that should help with that
09:44 PM jymmmm: Rab: http://power-topics.blogspot.com/2009/07/operating-power-supplies-in-series.html
09:46 PM Rab: jymmmm, the problem is that the outputs are likely referenced to chassis ground. In which case you can't use grounded line inputs (unless you mod the PSU to float the output).
09:47 PM Rab: Some SMPSs have isolated outputs. But those server PSUs often don't.
09:48 PM jymmmm: Rab: Right, that's where the diodes come into play
09:49 PM Rab: jymmmm, incidentally, HP server PSUs have found a second life powering bitcoin miners. So popular that there are ready-made breakout boards: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253139686137
09:50 PM Rab: (Not sure if anybody is still mining, but the boards are still available.)
09:50 PM Rab: jymmmm, having thought about it some more, I see what you're saying.
09:51 PM jymmmm: Rab: I'd only consider it if I had a big solar array