#linuxcnc Logs

Aug 02 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:53 AM Jintu: Hi guys, wondering if someone could give me a little direction. I have a rpi4 and 7c80. i current have installed: Raspian lite image, Preempt RT Kernel (Linux raspberrypi 4.19.71-rt24-v7l+ #1 SMP PREEMPT RT), OpenBox, and LinuxCNC (2.9 Pre0) following the steps from https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/rpi4-rt.html . I have downloaded the 7c80.zip from the Mesa support link. Im now a bit hazy with gluing it together. I am unsure how to utilise the zip
02:59 AM Jintu: file, as well as how to utilise the SPI. I have run Pncconf wizard and it shows me a few Mesa cards, but no 7c80 as well as no SPI interface. Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
03:01 AM CaptHindsight: Jintu: check the forums on rpi with LCNC, there should be detailed info there
03:02 AM Jintu: I have, it lead me here lol
03:03 AM CaptHindsight: try back in 5+hours
03:03 AM Jintu: There is bits and pieces, but i haven't seen much for the 7c80.
03:03 AM CaptHindsight: 7c80 connects vis SPI since it was developed for the Rpi3
03:03 AM Jintu: Will do, cheers.
03:03 AM CaptHindsight: vis/via
03:04 AM CaptHindsight: I'm just heading off
03:04 AM Jintu: Yeah, I just cant get my head around enabling the spi
03:04 AM Jintu: ok, thanks for your help :)
03:04 AM rmu: Jintu: 7c80 comes with firmware preinstalled, no neet for the 7c80.zip except if you want to modify something
03:04 AM CaptHindsight: it was also covered on the mail list
03:05 AM rmu: pncconf doesn't work with the 7c80
03:05 AM Jintu: ah
03:05 AM Jintu: well.. that explains that then.
03:05 AM CaptHindsight: yeah not added to stepcong either yet
03:05 AM CaptHindsight: stepconf
03:06 AM CaptHindsight: pncconf is for servoIIRC
03:06 AM Jintu: so, ill have to create a config by hand?
03:07 AM rmu: Jintu: just make a configuration for some other step/dir system that closely matches your machine
03:07 AM CaptHindsight: if it's not in the forum thread it might be on the mail list discussion
03:07 AM Jintu: Ill have to look up how to get on the mail list
03:07 AM rmu: Jintu: then edit the hal file
03:07 AM CaptHindsight: you can search I sec
03:08 AM CaptHindsight: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
03:08 AM Jintu: rmu, roger. I did see mention of that somewhere. I will check that out
03:08 AM CaptHindsight: https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-users/
03:08 AM rmu: Jintu: you will need a recent linuxcnc, don't think any released version will work with 7c80 out of the box
03:08 AM Jintu: oh, thank you
03:09 AM Jintu: i have got the 2.9 installed from the master tree of github
03:10 AM rmu: ok, if you go into a "run in place" environment (source scripts/rip-environment or something the like) this should get you started:
03:10 AM rmu: halrun
03:10 AM rmu: loadrt hostmot2
03:10 AM rmu: loadrt hm2_spi spidev_path=/dev/spidev0.0 spidev_rate=32000
03:10 AM rmu: then somehting should happen ;I
03:10 AM Jintu: ok
03:11 AM Jintu: TYVM for that
03:11 AM Jintu: I will go and have a play
03:11 AM rmu: sorry. wrong config. moment
03:11 AM CaptHindsight: doesn't JT have a Rpi howto?
03:11 AM rmu: the second line should say loadrt hm2_rpspi
03:12 AM Jintu: I did read up on the hm2_rpspi
03:12 AM Jintu: ill check that out
03:12 AM Jintu: JT's Rpi is great to get the pi started and set for ethernet
03:12 AM CaptHindsight: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/37231-raspberry-pi-4-tutorial
03:13 AM Jintu: yeah, i have followed that and got it to the point where i have to get down and dirty with the 7c80/spi
03:14 AM Jintu: it was the pncconf / 7c80.zip was giving me some confusion. But i think ill get moving forward again now with what rmu just gave me
03:14 AM Jintu: once again, greatly appreciated gents.
03:15 AM rmu: 7c80 contains firmware and/or bitfiles for the fpga on the 7c80
03:15 AM rmu: firmware *sources
03:24 AM CaptHindsight: I did a quick search and yeah nobody seems to have posted their config.ini or hal file for a basic stepper setup
03:24 AM CaptHindsight: or it's well hidden
04:01 AM rmu: the problem with pncconf is it can't deal with the port width of the 7c80. and it doesn't know what to do with multiplexed inputs
04:01 AM Jintu: Its very well hidden, hope i havent bit off more then i can chew..
04:02 AM Jintu: Just had dinner, going to give it a good crack now.
04:04 AM rmu: i'm around if you have some questions
04:05 AM Jintu: Thank you
05:25 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:59 AM Jintu: Morning
06:53 AM Tom_L: morning
06:56 AM XXCoder: Morning
07:11 AM SpeedEvil: ing
07:15 AM Tom_L: does the 7c80 need an spi cable or is it connected thru the header already? i never used that board when i tested the rpi4/spi
07:18 AM Tom_itx: .
07:18 AM Tom_L: in the case of the 7i90 the pinout is:
07:18 AM Tom_itx: SPI pinout
07:18 AM Tom_itx: 7i90 Rpi4
07:18 AM Tom_itx: 11 ----- 23 spi-clk
07:18 AM Tom_itx: 13 ----- 19 spi-mosi
07:18 AM Tom_itx: 15 ----- 21 spi-miso
07:18 AM Tom_itx: 17 ----- 24 spi-ce0
07:18 AM Tom_itx: 10 ----- GND
07:20 AM Tom_L: you may not need a cable on the 7c80, i dunno
07:21 AM rmu: you need a short 40pin cable
07:39 AM Tom_L: in the .hal file you need:
07:39 AM Tom_L: loadrt hostmot2
07:39 AM Tom_L: loadrt hm2_rpspi
07:46 AM Tom_L: on the rpi you need to enable spi
07:49 AM Tom_L: menu->Preferences->Raspberry Pi Configuraton->Interfaces->SPI Enable
07:50 AM Tom_L: or you can do it thru the cmd line like jt shows
07:50 AM Tom_L: you should not need to set any SPI parameters
07:52 AM Tom_L: my rpi4 test configs are here however i tested both ethernet and SPI and are currently configured for ethernet:
07:52 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/RPI4/
07:52 AM Tom_L: you will need to load your ethernet board driver
07:53 AM Tom_L: sp/ethernet/spi
07:53 AM Tom_L: Jintu, ^^
09:17 AM _unreal_: arg......
09:18 AM _unreal_: I'm NOT looking forward to taking apart my cnc
09:18 AM _unreal_: meaning taking it down out of service for the upgrade
09:18 AM _unreal_: :S
09:19 AM _unreal_: the more I look at it I SHOULD build one last part. a new DUST shoe for the new spindle
09:19 AM _unreal_: so I dont have to make a mess making a new one
09:21 AM Jintu: Tom_L, Thanks for the info, I will give it another crack in the morning.
09:31 AM _unreal_: On second thought the shoe for the new setup is going to take some thought
10:37 AM robotustra: Both DRO axis installed https://imgur.com/gallery/SvwAOxW
10:37 AM robotustra: now it's boring part to attach display itself
10:44 AM rmu: robotustra: you are building violins?
10:46 AM robotustra: yes
10:47 AM robotustra: I had built 16, now 17th in in progress
10:47 AM rmu: is this a hobby? is is that you main profession?
10:47 AM robotustra: I did repairs also
10:48 AM robotustra: it has started as a hobby more than 25 years ago
10:49 AM robotustra: after I met a true violin maker and he became my teacher
10:49 AM rmu: it is quite an involved process... i studied playing the violin for quite some time when i was young
10:49 AM robotustra: and he teached me how to build and repair violins
10:50 AM robotustra: and I was building about 1-2 violins a year before I came to Canada
10:50 AM robotustra: and sell them
10:50 AM jymmmm: How much does a hand made violin go for?
10:51 AM rmu: what do you mean with handmade?
10:51 AM robotustra: also I did a lot of repairs for school instruments
10:51 AM robotustra: depends on place of living
10:51 AM robotustra: In Belarus you can sell new handmade instrument from $1k and higher
10:52 AM rmu: a proper violin of a proper luthier goes for 5-10k or more around here
10:52 AM robotustra: my teache sells them for about 2.5k+
10:52 AM rmu: and more
10:52 AM robotustra: yes
10:52 AM robotustra: here in USA-canada the price is bigger
10:53 AM robotustra: in Moscow prices are also high
10:53 AM rmu: if you are a musician and earn you living with the instrument it's a rather cheap tool even if it sounds expensive at first
10:54 AM robotustra: so, I'm slowly return to violinmaking after 10 years brake
10:54 AM robotustra: I had build one violing previous year, and almost did another one this year
10:54 AM robotustra: but I got mill and......
10:54 AM rmu: hehe
10:55 AM rmu: big time sink
10:55 AM robotustra: actually, I'm switching between 2 hobbies
10:55 AM robotustra: machining and violinmaking
10:55 AM robotustra: machining I mean cnc machines and robots
10:55 AM jymmmm: and making violins out of metal =)
10:55 AM rmu: i can imagine you have to be in the right mood for violin making. you can't rush things there.
10:56 AM robotustra: yeah, right mood, right idea of what you want to get
10:57 AM robotustra: and I like to build new better than repair old ones
10:57 AM rmu: should really practise more....
10:58 AM robotustra: you are talking about yourself?
10:58 AM rmu: yes
10:59 AM rmu: i meant i should really start playing again...
10:59 AM robotustra: violinists to be in a good shape should play at least couple of hours every day
11:00 AM rmu: i know ;)
11:00 AM robotustra: that's why I don't want even to start :)
11:01 AM robotustra: I can play some simple stuff just to hear the sound
11:01 AM rmu: but i'm not a violinist. i know a bunch of musicians, those are going through some hard times right now. not a single gig since february, everything cancelled. no concerts, no weddings, no festivals, no nothing.
11:02 AM robotustra: true
11:03 AM robotustra: service type economics freezed
11:07 AM Loetmichel: over here at least the hairdressers and restaurants are back open
11:07 AM robotustra: usa GDP consists of dog's headressing for abuout 20%
11:07 AM Loetmichel: you can even have concerts and soccer games again, although with social distancing/ limited audience.
11:08 AM Loetmichel: but yes, when i talk to my old colleagues that still work in Stage rental/stage service they really are struggeling to get any orders
11:08 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel, ours opened just to close again
11:10 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: may happen here as well but more localized, als i hear in the radio yestery my home city reached warning level 2 of covid infections in a week, it may come to it that my city reverts back to "full blown" covid measueres soon
11:10 AM Loetmichel: but at least its not country-wide any more
11:10 AM Loetmichel: s/hear/heard
11:18 AM robotustra: you didn't get yet? this is the modus operandi how the society will continue to work. power does not want people to live better
11:19 AM robotustra: they think that people did too much travelling, too much entertainment
11:19 AM robotustra: too much spend of energy and resources
11:19 AM robotustra: stay at home, do nothing, don't waste resources
11:20 AM robotustra: that's what they want from people
11:20 AM robotustra: covid is just one mean to implement this
11:20 AM jymmmm: But people can't work and be productive either
11:21 AM robotustra: true
11:21 AM robotustra: the productivity rate decline since 1971
11:21 AM robotustra: in usa
11:21 AM robotustra: canada
11:21 AM robotustra: and grow in china
11:22 AM robotustra: and other asiatic region counties
11:23 AM robotustra: industry must come back at least for self sustainability
11:23 AM Tom_L: robotustra, do you make the bows too?
11:23 AM robotustra: I do rehair of bows
11:23 AM Tom_L: some of those by themselves are quite expensive
11:24 AM robotustra: to make good bows you need to know nuances
11:24 AM robotustra: I can make a bow, but I can't guarantee it will be superb
11:24 AM Tom_L: hear of transiberian orchestra?
11:24 AM robotustra: no
11:24 AM Tom_L: it's an american thin
11:24 AM Tom_L: g
11:25 AM Tom_L: nevermind then
11:25 AM robotustra: I did rehired a lot of puple bows in 10 years, I did some records, may be 200-250 or so
11:26 AM robotustra: kids brake them often
11:26 AM robotustra: and the quality of kids bows is weak
11:26 AM Tom_L: i know a guy that claims his bow is worth ~60k
11:27 AM robotustra: let him find a musician who can afford it
11:27 AM Tom_L: he's a good one
11:27 AM Tom_L: he learned with it
11:27 AM robotustra: My violins sounds like 120k, but nobody knows it yet :)
11:28 AM Tom_L: some is in the name
11:28 AM robotustra: yep
11:28 AM rmu: if you compare with cost any kind of machine tool it's not that expensive. and doesn't wear out.
11:28 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:28 AM Tom_L: he's also got a 6 string electric violin
11:28 AM Tom_L: two of a kind
11:28 AM robotustra: violins can live for 100-300 years
11:29 AM robotustra: with proper repair
11:29 AM Tom_L: the other one belongs to the violinist of that orchestra i mentioned. they are good friends
11:29 AM rmu: robotustra: where do the 300 years come from? i think stradivaris are about that old
11:29 AM rmu: or even older
11:30 AM robotustra: Strad lived from 1644 to 1737
11:31 AM jdh: how many instruments did he make?
11:31 AM robotustra: sarted to make violins at 13
11:31 AM rmu: amati lived in 16th century and according to wikipedia about 20 instruments survive to this day
11:31 AM robotustra: made about 1200 instruments
11:32 AM robotustra: more than 600 violins are still alive
11:32 AM rmu: i think with proper care a newly made violin should easily live for 300 years
11:32 AM robotustra: he was making violins for 80 years
11:32 AM robotustra: yeah, but wood itself start to decay at about 250 years
11:33 AM robotustra: so 300 years is about a limit for wooden instrument
11:33 AM rmu: that depends. i know of a 5000 year old wooden staircase that looks like it was built 100 years ago
11:34 AM jdh: betty white had that staircase made for her grandchild
11:34 AM robotustra: well, don't mix solid wooden staircase and 3 mm thik vibrating plate which is stressed by strings at about 10-40 kg
11:35 AM rmu: it is only 3,5k years old. here you go. https://www.salzwelten.at/en/hallstatt/archaeology/staircase-blog/
11:35 AM Tom_L: robotustra, try ~20 tons on a piano
11:36 AM rmu: a bunch of those old stradivaris are still in use
11:36 AM robotustra: piano deck is not stressed by such pressure
11:36 AM robotustra: in russia museum is about 40
11:36 AM robotustra: in the wirld it's about 600 known Strads
11:36 AM robotustra: world
11:36 AM rmu: whatever. you are the expert.
11:36 AM robotustra: kinda
11:37 AM Tom_L: robotustra, it is split between the plate and the board
11:37 AM rmu: 300 years is good enough for me ;)
11:37 AM Tom_L: just like the tensioner in a guitar/violin
11:37 AM rmu: my violin was built in '83 by a polish immigrant
11:37 AM robotustra: what's the name?
11:37 AM rmu: bartoscek
11:38 AM robotustra: didn't hear about him
11:38 AM rmu: i can't type the proper accents on this keyboard
11:38 AM robotustra: I'm from Belarus - neighbour of POland
11:38 AM rmu: he is known in my home-town among luthiers, but probably nowhere else ;)
11:38 AM robotustra: it's good enough
11:39 AM robotustra: I'm not famous in montreal yet :)
11:39 AM Tom_L: robotustra, where do you get your spruce from?
11:39 AM robotustra: there is one montreal maker famous to the whole wold
11:40 AM robotustra: Last one I got from oldwood form usa
11:40 AM Tom_L: getting hard to find good wood
11:40 AM robotustra: international violin company
11:40 AM robotustra: yes
11:41 AM robotustra: but I'm usually build from older wood, like 10+ years old
11:41 AM robotustra: it's more stable
11:41 AM Tom_L: and kiln dried isn't the same as aged
11:41 AM Tom_L: ^^
11:41 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:41 AM robotustra: wood sellers dry it properly in the kiln
11:41 AM robotustra: of cause
11:42 AM robotustra: I used different wood in belarus, like Siberian, european, and local
11:43 AM robotustra: must say any works pretty good, as soon as it 5+ years old and properly dried
11:43 AM Tom_L: what is the neck made from?
11:43 AM rmu: isn't there presidental "election" today in belarus.
11:43 AM robotustra: maple
11:44 AM Tom_L: hardrock maple
11:44 AM robotustra: I think the next week?
11:44 AM Tom_L: that and beech are good
11:44 AM robotustra: usually it's wavy maple
11:44 AM Tom_L: maple is the best
11:45 AM robotustra: https://i.imgur.com/8Biy5lG.jpg
11:45 AM Tom_L: yeah i knew what you meant
11:46 AM Tom_L: also known as quarter sawn?
11:47 AM robotustra: usually yes, but when I get them it's already a bar
11:48 AM Tom_L: https://www.commercialforestproducts.com/quartersawn-maple/
11:49 AM robotustra: but the bar for violin neck is a bit different
11:49 AM Tom_L: a little yes
11:50 AM Tom_L: 2nd pic from the bottom is a good illustration
11:50 AM robotustra: it' bigger because of scroll
11:50 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:50 AM Tom_L: wrong species but shows the cut
11:51 AM robotustra: some I got from here: https://www.internationalviolin.com/Shop/tonewoods
11:53 AM robotustra: some from other place but I can't find a link
11:53 AM robotustra: from BC canada
11:54 AM robotustra: and from here
11:54 AM robotustra: https://www.oldworldtonewood.com/
12:05 PM _unreal_: arg....
12:06 PM _unreal_: trying to figure out how to setup the wiring for my new spindle. its BLDC so I have to mask the wires so I dont get high freq. issues
12:06 PM rmu: you have to mask the wires?
12:09 PM _unreal_: shielding so far as I know
12:12 PM robotustra: https://imgur.com/a/e7yhjjO
12:12 PM robotustra: in progress
12:12 PM Tom_L: all by hand?
12:14 PM _unreal_: I had some shielded power cord. wish I could find it
12:14 PM Tom_L: i used shielded on all my wiring
12:14 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I was just about to ask that
12:15 PM Tom_L: switches and power to the steppers etc
12:15 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, ya I'm 99% sure I have to shield my new BLDC spindle motor
12:15 PM Tom_L: and to the stepper frames
12:15 PM Tom_L: i had to get a roll for the steppers
12:15 PM Tom_L: luckily i found it locally
12:15 PM robotustra: yes
12:16 PM _unreal_: I had a bunch of stainless braid shilding but I tossed it all out. mainly becuase I was tired of holding it and it took almost 4 months for my @#$@#$@ spindle to get here from china
12:16 PM rmu: _unreal_: short cables should do without shielding
12:16 PM _unreal_: never did get my rails ended up buying them from amazon. and cancling the rails.
12:16 PM _unreal_: at least I got my spindle though
12:16 PM _unreal_: rmu define short
12:16 PM rmu: _unreal_: but keep those wires together
12:17 PM rmu: meter
12:17 PM rmu: one meter
12:17 PM rmu: or less
12:17 PM _unreal_: I will be about 5'
12:17 PM _unreal_: no more like 6'
12:17 PM Tom_L: i'm looking at a couple spindle options but it will likely be a while
12:17 PM _unreal_: small machine but distance adds up fast
12:18 PM rmu: is that five foot? 1,5m. it should work without any shielding, but maybe touchscreens nearby won't work properly.
12:18 PM Tom_L: use a star ground configuration too
12:18 PM Tom_L: each ground wire goes back to a common point instead of chaining them one to the next to the next...
12:19 PM _unreal_: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000801582283.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.16534c4dUBSZ8Y
12:19 PM _unreal_: that is the spindle I got
12:20 PM _unreal_: I got the expensive version with all the bells and whistles
12:20 PM rmu: current always goes in loops, and those loops should not span a large area. so keep wires together, esp. those carrying power.
12:23 PM _unreal_: regardless that is my spindle motor and as I said I need to have it isolated/shielded
12:23 PM _unreal_: the 3 phase control wires that is
12:23 PM _unreal_: not control power DRIVE wires
12:24 PM pink_vampire: robotustra: did you mount the dro?
12:24 PM _unreal_: I'm not about to take that spindle apart but I may pull the fan cover just to see if it has HALL outputs. if it does I'll wire those in as well
12:25 PM _unreal_: I'd feel much better if the controller was able to sense the motor rather then blindly drive it
12:25 PM rmu: robotustra: putting power wires and the hall sensors in one shielded cable doesn't make sense
12:25 PM rmu: (hall sensor signals)
12:26 PM robotustra: pink_vampire, scales - yes, display in progress
12:26 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, i'm not looking for a high speed spindle
12:26 PM _unreal_: the interesting thing.. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000801582283.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.16534c4dUBSZ8Y the site says the motor controller is for 20-36v but I got the spindle and its controller and it says 20-50V input
12:26 PM Tom_L: rather have one with low end torque
12:26 PM _unreal_: which makes me happy because my PSU for my current spindle is a 48v
12:26 PM _unreal_: tom you have a power build
12:26 PM _unreal_: mine requires high RPM
12:26 PM Tom_L: i know
12:27 PM _unreal_: micro chips really fast :)
12:27 PM robotustra: rmu, did you told that to somebody else?
12:28 PM robotustra: pink_vampire, I'm finishing my ice cream and go back to work :)
12:28 PM rmu: robotustra: what do you mean?
12:28 PM robotustra: rmu> robotustra: putting power wires and the hall sensors in ...
12:28 PM _unreal_: i JUST FOUND two sections of that stainless "wire" cover mesh from the satellites
12:28 PM rmu: robotustra: sorry, yes, i meant _unreal_
12:29 PM _unreal_: I can now use standard "110v power cord" to power my spindl
12:29 PM rmu: misautocompleted
12:29 PM pink_vampire: _unreal_: the font on the rpm meter look fake
12:29 PM _unreal_: font?
12:29 PM pink_vampire: in the link you sent
12:29 PM pink_vampire: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Hb26eeae9910846728d9985d549e1bc1dN/ICROATO-WS55-140-B-rstenlosen-300W-Spindel-Hohe-Geschwindigkeit-0-3-KW-Air-cool-Spindel-Motor.jpg
12:30 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, something along these lines: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-milling-spindle/cnc-milling-spindle-brushless-motor-and-driver/
12:30 PM _unreal_: pink_vampire, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717411349541683212/738917731151118376/15962420896107010412417595846703.jpg
12:30 PM rmu: pink_vampire: that is a montage. the rpm meter is not plugged in, so couldn't display anything anyways.
12:30 PM _unreal_: OH GOD YA pink thats clearly fake
12:31 PM _unreal_: look at the video from the same page
12:31 PM Tom_L: first of all the last digit wouldn't be that clear
12:32 PM pink_vampire: I need to add my rpm meter back
12:33 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/screenshot.png
12:33 PM Tom_L: pretty handy
12:33 PM Tom_L: i tend to look at the digital more than the analog one
12:35 PM pink_vampire: how to you read the rpm?
12:35 PM Tom_L: encoder on the spindle
12:36 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc1.jpg
12:36 PM pink_vampire: and that go to the lpt?
12:36 PM Tom_L: that goes to a mesa card
12:36 PM Tom_L: 7i90 is what i'm using iirc
12:37 PM Tom_L: with a parallel interface
12:39 PM pink_vampire: I wish it was easier.
12:39 PM pink_vampire: there is soo meany mesa cards, that I'm always go lost.
12:40 PM pink_vampire: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=83_84
12:42 PM pink_vampire: why this one is $308 http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&product_id=331&sort=p.price&order=ASC and this one is $158 http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&product_id=216&sort=p.price&order=ASC but it is look identical
12:45 PM rmu: pink_vampire: 7i77 is for analog servos, 7i76 for step/dir interface
12:45 PM rmu: pink_vampire: 5i25 is fpga card with pci interface, 6i25 hast pciexpress interface
12:46 PM rmu: pink_vampire: store picture seems to be the same. look at the individual products.
12:47 PM rmu: pink_vampire: if you have parallel port breakout board you could use something like 7i92
12:48 PM pink_vampire: what do I need for 6 axis machine, all step / dir, dual spindle one is step / dir the other one is 0-10V and also alot of I/O for limit switches and control purposes,
12:49 PM pink_vampire: the motors can go up to 3000 rpm, and each motor have 8192 encoder, each rev = 5mm
12:50 PM rmu: first you have to decide if you want PCI, PCIe, ethernet or SPI (raspberry pi4)
12:50 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire, it's not as hard as you think
12:51 PM Tom_L: you pick the interface you have to work with and pick the daughter card that suits your needs best
12:51 PM rmu: you really need 7 step/dir and 8 encoders?
12:51 PM Tom_L: i can only wish i had that problem :)
12:51 PM Tom_L: i'd love a 5 axis machine
12:52 PM rmu: 6 axis dual spindle machine with step/dir interface is kind of oxymoron
12:53 PM pink_vampire: I want it to be easy to configure, for me I don't care the interface, as much that I want it to be reliable.
12:53 PM Tom_L: not that many ppl even know how to program those properly
12:53 PM Tom_L: mine has been very reliable
12:54 PM Tom_L: one time i tried to run it when it was ~100F in the garage and it didn't like that but i knew what the problem was
12:54 PM rmu: pink_vampire: ethernet is probably the most reliably and future-proof. also has built-in galvanic isolation.
12:55 PM pink_vampire: rmu: I have slow speed spindle, that I want to be able to do rigid tapping with it, and I also have high speed spindle, that can be mounted on the table, so the slow speed spindle become A axis indexer,
12:55 PM Tom_L: yeah i'd agree. i tried a 7i80 on mine and it seemed to do fine
12:55 PM pink_vampire: other that that, I want to be able to control AB rotatory table
12:56 PM Tom_L: you can always run multiple configurations
12:56 PM Tom_L: i'm pretty sure andypugh does
12:56 PM pink_vampire: this is what I have now
12:56 PM pink_vampire: but I don't want to rewire the machine, just to plug the AB table
12:57 PM pink_vampire: this is way I want room in the card for the extra 2 axis
01:00 PM rmu: pink_vampire: you will probably need more than one card. http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_86&product_id=343 has 6 step/dirs + encoder interfaces
01:02 PM rmu: you could connect a 7i76 to the 7i95, that should be enough
01:02 PM pink_vampire: but how fast can I go with it?
01:03 PM _unreal_: now if I can find one more section of the stainless RF mesh I have it made in th shade :)
01:04 PM rmu: pink_vampire: 10mhz step rate or something like that
01:04 PM _unreal_: I'd like to have RPM control
01:04 PM _unreal_: but I may just leave it manual
01:04 PM pink_vampire: rmu: NICE!
01:05 PM pink_vampire: now I think it is limited to 50K
01:05 PM _unreal_: pink what did you think of my new Z build?
01:05 PM pink_vampire: but let me see
01:05 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, is it 0-10v or +10 -10 control?
01:05 PM Tom_L: you can get either one
01:05 PM Tom_L: or modbus
01:05 PM _unreal_: I believe 0-10
01:05 PM Tom_L: that's what i'm using
01:05 PM _unreal_: WS55-180 IS THE CONTROLLER
01:06 PM Tom_L: the ones i'm looking at can use it also
01:06 PM _unreal_: sweet https://myosuploads3.banggood.com/products/20190508/20190508220426SKU600181WS55-1801.pdf
01:06 PM Tom_L: that or modbus but i'm not savvy enough to modify a modbus comp
01:06 PM pink_vampire: the BASE_PERIOD = 100000
01:07 PM _unreal_: ok so THAT is the PDF and the controller I have. I believe I need to get a new PSU correct me if I am wrong? I have a 48v 4amp switching PSU
01:07 PM Tom_L: peter _might_ have just an analog control by itself, i can't remember
01:07 PM Tom_L: may not be on his site
01:08 PM Rab: Oh, my...shortage of acrylic and polycarbonate sheet stock, probably being used up for workspace partitions.
01:09 PM _unreal_: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA LOOK AT THAT PDF and read the last page last thing wriitten
01:09 PM Tom_L: who'd uv thunk
01:09 PM rmu: pink_vampire: that means 10khz max
01:10 PM Tom_L: heh
01:10 PM _unreal_: look at that PDF file and the last paragraph on the last page last thing written its freaking funnuy
01:10 PM Tom_L: you probably should run the bearings in slow for a while
01:10 PM pink_vampire: rmu: not 100K?
01:10 PM robotustra: pink_vampire, https://imgur.com/a/a80wDaC
01:11 PM Tom_L: 37 min to splashdown
01:11 PM _unreal_: splash down?
01:11 PM Tom_L: spacex
01:11 PM _unreal_: got link
01:11 PM rmu: pink_vampire: 1 / 100000e-9 = 1e4
01:11 PM Tom_L: watching it on tv atm
01:11 PM Rab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFG2tDvfHKA
01:12 PM rmu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJIQftoxeU
01:13 PM rmu: pink_vampire: baseperiod is in nanoseconds (=ca. 1 ft)
01:13 PM pink_vampire: rmu: can you explain what is behind of this calculation, because it is the first time I see it.
01:13 PM _unreal_: hum
01:14 PM _unreal_: 20min to live/die
01:14 PM pink_vampire: so the smaller the baseperiod number the faster the machine can work??
01:14 PM _unreal_: tsla stock is going to go CRAZY
01:14 PM rmu: pink_vampire: nano means 1/1000000000
01:14 PM _unreal_: if they land with no issues
01:14 PM rmu: pink_vampire: frequency is 1/time
01:15 PM Rab: _unreal_, you holding?
01:15 PM rmu: pink_vampire: per base period you can generate at most 1 step
01:15 PM Rab: robotustra, how do you like that little mill so far?
01:15 PM _unreal_: NO
01:15 PM rmu: pink_vampire: so if your base period was 1000ns, you could generate up to 1m steps per second
01:16 PM _unreal_: the company I work for reallllllly fucked up my stocks over the past month
01:16 PM _unreal_: I'm alll locked up with red
01:16 PM rmu: pink_vampire: if your base period is 100000ns, you could generate up to 10000 steps per second
01:16 PM _unreal_: the managers have been ilegaly fucking up my breaks
01:16 PM pink_vampire: what is 1m steps??
01:16 PM rmu: 1 million
01:17 PM pink_vampire: so the smaller the base period the faster I can drive the machine?
01:17 PM rmu: yes
01:18 PM _unreal_: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/08/02/live-watch-nasa-astronauts-depart-iss-spacex-crew-dragon-splashdown/5567409002/
01:18 PM _unreal_: if you guys want to watch
01:18 PM _unreal_: :)
01:18 PM pink_vampire: mm what is the base period with mesa card?
01:18 PM rmu: pink_vampire: those limits only apply for software step generation
01:18 PM robotustra: Rab, well, I replaced X, Y nuts, to decrease backlash, now it seems small especially on Y axis. I didn't make much milling yet, i made t-nuts, of soft steel, milled some cast iron, aluminium, so, my opinion - that it's pretty good tool for the price. I can do work within 0.05 mm
01:18 PM rmu: pink_vampire: with mesa cards, you don't need a base period / base thread
01:18 PM pink_vampire: so how it is done?
01:18 PM robotustra: Rab, There is a space for improovments still
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: plastic sheet fabrication goldmine, schools and stores, they are all getting shields
01:19 PM robotustra: Rab, like replace plastic gears to metal, reduce vibrations, do soundproofing
01:19 PM rmu: pink_vampire: there the limit is the fpga, that runs with 100 or 200mhz, and generates steps via direct digital synthesis. have a look at linuxcnc sources and manpages if you want to know more.
01:21 PM pink_vampire: (8192 steps per rev*3000 rpm*7 axis)/60 sec = 2867200 steps per sec max.
01:21 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire, with a mesa card you're more concerned with the servo thread
01:21 PM pink_vampire: is that right?
01:21 PM rmu: sounds way fancier than it is ;)
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: if public school reopen that should wipe out any stock of clear plastic sheet
01:21 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I'll bet.
01:21 PM Tom_L: use bullet proof glass then
01:22 PM Rab: I use black pc sheet for my products, hopefully I'm safe for now.
01:22 PM Rab: robotustra, great!
01:22 PM Tom_L: i found that stuff harder to cut than clear
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, anything opaque should be safe
01:22 PM Tom_L: seems to heat up quicker
01:22 PM pink_vampire: rmu: 1/2867200 sec is my "base period?"
01:22 PM rmu: pink_vampire: what kind of drive is that? i think you could generate 3mhz step rate with mesa cards, but you will have to think about how to get that signal to the drive. you will probably need differential signalling.
01:23 PM pink_vampire: G320X
01:23 PM Rab: Tom_L, I use 1/8" carbide tooling and haven't had a problem with melting. I crank up the feedrate though.
01:23 PM rmu: pink_vampire: mesa cards don't have a base period. you can't use just an arbitrary number as base period, it has to be large enough for your PC to manage.
01:24 PM _unreal_: FINALLY just found the rest of my shielded brade
01:24 PM _unreal_: now I can finish
01:24 PM rmu: SW step generation is limited to about 100kHz max on PCs.
01:24 PM Tom_L: Rab, i was using a 60tooth saw blade (tri cut)
01:24 PM Tom_L: not trying to mill it
01:25 PM _unreal_: HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA elon keeps fucking with his mask
01:25 PM CaptHindsight: if the ARM SOC has an integrated microcontroller that can generate steps, are we calling that software or hardware stepping?
01:26 PM rmu: pink_vampire: i don't think that gecko drive will take 2MHz
01:27 PM pink_vampire: all I want is to drive the motor faster then now, so per motor I have 8192*50 rev per sec = 409600 pulses per sec
01:28 PM rmu: pink_vampire: you could reduce encoder count (depends on encoder), then it will drive faster.
01:28 PM rmu: looks like opto isolators on gecko limit step rate to 300khz max
01:30 PM pink_vampire: if I will reduce the resolution by half. that give me 204800 pps
01:31 PM pink_vampire: the encoders are cui amt102
01:31 PM rmu: those can be configured i think
01:31 PM rmu: you probably won't need a resolution of 8192 counts per rotation on a spindle
01:32 PM rmu: neither will your mechanical system nor the motor deliver that in accuracy.
01:33 PM pink_vampire: on the spindle I want the max resolution possible because it is also an A axis indexer.
01:35 PM andypugh: pink_vampire: I have one folder with several INI files, they share some files, and some have their own. One tool table.
01:35 PM andypugh: So the table up and down is Z in one config and Y in another.
01:36 PM andypugh: But the spindle HAL file is common.
01:36 PM rmu: pink_vampire: the cui AMTs are only accurate to +-0,25 degrees if i read the datasheet correctly
01:36 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: I have the same thing, mill and millturn
01:36 PM _unreal_: any of you watching the re-entry?
01:36 PM pink_vampire: _unreal_: yes
01:36 PM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xllfBA0bIZs
01:36 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, off and on
01:37 PM _unreal_: chrome/casting to my tv
01:37 PM _unreal_: in blackout phase
01:38 PM rmu: on some spacex AMA they said ground control is run by labview!
01:38 PM _unreal_: dom dom...... dom dom..... dom dom dom dom dom domdomdom domd omd
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: i see rockets are popular again after all those years of not much happening
01:39 PM _unreal_: thats because obummer was scared shitless and shut down nasa
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: I miss Walter Cronkite reporting on them
01:40 PM Tom_L: heh
01:40 PM rmu: elon musk somehow exorcised the reality distortion field out of steve jobs when he was still alive
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: yup
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: Musk could be a president of the USA, he has the BS factor
01:40 PM _unreal_: I'd love to see the media meetings talking about the what if's how to respond to elon IF there is a capsule failure
01:41 PM rmu: what used to be "G4 altivec blabla" is now "full self-driving within a year"
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: but he wasn't born here so he's out of contention
01:42 PM _unreal_: whooooo hoooooo responce from the capsule
01:42 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: you should be thankful for that provision, else you would have had schwarzenegger as president already
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: much better options than the reality
01:43 PM rmu: yeah, worse than trumpf is really hard to imagine.
01:45 PM rmu: descent looks fine.
01:47 PM _unreal_: trumpf?
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: will likely become a nick for a mentally and emotionally broken individual
01:49 PM rmu: https://www.donald.org
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: gordon gecko
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: but forgotten after a decade or two
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: who announced Kennedy's death on TV, Cronkite?
01:54 PM Tom_L: i honestly don't remember that
01:54 PM Tom_L: very likely
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3Mpv4fwt4
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: found it
01:55 PM Tom_L: a younger version for sure :)
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32sGmHLUg0w First report of JFK assassination from WFAA
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: how TV has changed
02:00 PM CaptHindsight: and all the indoor smoking
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: got feedback later in the week about the tree seed paintball drones
02:11 PM Tom_L: nice
02:11 PM CaptHindsight: 20G shock, 30 day shelf life, ~50 cal seedball
02:11 PM Tom_L: might be a doable thing then
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: seedball is a germinated seed covered in soil, clay, fertilizer
02:12 PM rmu: cloning trees would be way more efficient
02:12 PM rmu: (cut small branches, treat them with root growing hormone)
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: the most difficult part seems to be manufacturing 500K seedballs per day
02:13 PM rmu: after some weeks, you have a small tree 10cm in height that would take a year or more to grow from seed
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: though since their teem is mainly academics all of it is difficult, since they have little experience
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: with high volume production
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: we all have to start somewhere
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: use more parallel drones to plant small trees vs seeds
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: their goal is 1 billion by 2008
02:17 PM Tom_L: hah, rotary wasn't supposed to show til tomorrow. just found a box sitting outside
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: small tree planting drone would have to dig a small hole, drop the small tree into it and give it a pat down
02:17 PM rmu: where do you get that amount of tree seeds
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: I didn't ask yet
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: maybe there have been stocking up the past 2 years
02:18 PM rmu: collecting 500k viable tree seeds per day seems (to me at least) to be a major undertaking
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: how much area required to have millions of small tree branches growing roots?
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: tend to them for a couple weeks, combine with soil and package for planting?
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: branch + soil + hormones in paper bag
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: final delivery by auger drone, followed by planter drone
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: but tree factory to field logistics?
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: small tree in "bag" in some sort of tray that the drones can easily pick from
02:23 PM rmu: you can cut an order of magnitude if you go the small tree route
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: magnitude of?
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: area required for production?
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: 50K central and south American immigrants could do this by hand
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: but then there is all the care and feeding of the immigrants to consider
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: am I dehumanizing this enough? :)
02:33 PM rmu: i mean you need less "grown" tree than seeds
02:34 PM rmu: because most of the seeds won't survive the first year
02:34 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, it is useful work that needy people could be paid to do. In that light, I think the drone approach is dehumanizing. But maybe the region and/or terrain are a logistical challenge for hand planting.
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: the terrain is pretty much anywhere forests can grown
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: think they are targeting >50 cents/tree USD
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: sorry < not over
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: $500 million for 1 billion trees planted
02:39 PM Rab: So per rmu's objection, I guess the seeds will have to be very cheap to yield a viable $.50 tree.
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: unlike money they do grow on trees
02:58 PM _unreal_: ok finally my main spindle wire harness is done
02:59 PM _unreal_: has a mesh around it the entire run so I can mount the motor contoller with out any worries
02:59 PM _unreal_: so as Isaid before I believe I need to get a new psu? any insite would be helpful
02:59 PM _unreal_: https://myosuploads3.banggood.com/products/20190508/20190508220426SKU600181WS55-1801.pdf
03:00 PM _unreal_: that is the spindle motor contoller that I have. the spindle its self is this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000801582283.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.16534c4dUBSZ8Y
03:00 PM _unreal_: I am trying to figure out exactly what I need for a switching PSU supply
03:00 PM _unreal_: My spindle says DC 36V 300watt
03:00 PM _unreal_: its a BLDC
03:01 PM _unreal_: my motor controller for the spindle says its rated for 8amps
03:01 PM _unreal_: limited current to 10amps
03:02 PM _unreal_: ?
03:03 PM rmu: running the spindle from 48V could overheat it
03:03 PM _unreal_: hum
03:03 PM _unreal_: it has a built in fan
03:03 PM _unreal_: my PSU is a 4amp supply
03:03 PM _unreal_: 4amp 48v
03:04 PM rmu: if you don't exceed rated power of the spindle (that depends on the load) 48V should net really be a problem
03:04 PM _unreal_: its rated for 300 wats
03:04 PM _unreal_: watts
03:05 PM Rab: 48V * 4A is still only ~200W, before any loss in the motor controller. It will not use your spindle to full potential.
03:05 PM _unreal_: so my PSU is not enough regardless
03:05 PM rmu: so current through the motor corresponds to torque, wattage is torque times speed or voltage times current
03:05 PM Rab: 36V @ 10A would be better.
03:05 PM _unreal_: hum
03:06 PM _unreal_: but more volts=less amps
03:06 PM _unreal_: less heating
03:06 PM rmu: with higher voltage, the spindle will draw more current and dissipate more heat than it would with 36V (when loaded)
03:08 PM rmu: the "datasheet" of the motor doesn't really say how long this thing can output 300W, i have my doubts that this thing will output 300W for hours without overheating
03:10 PM rmu: whatever. get a 36V 400W power supply
03:11 PM rmu: the 4A maximum current of your 48V PSU is not sufficient
03:16 PM _unreal_: so for the time being I dont have any thing to worry about.
03:17 PM _unreal_: I'm more likely to over draw my switching psu
03:18 PM Rab: Here's one, with enough headroom to hopefully defray its probable crappiness: https://www.ebay.com/itm/353047778074
03:19 PM Rab: I have to say I like this one better: https://www.ebay.com/itm/153752848459
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/switching-power-supply/kl-350-36/
03:21 PM _unreal_: https://www.amazon.com/Switching-Supply-Driver-camera-100-240V/dp/B075JZN74J/ref=pd_sbs_23_4/141-8984679-6611406?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B075JZN74J&pd_rd_r=85e2add3-23c6-45e3-9ac8-d22f26d10494&pd_rd_w=ZvuYU&pd_rd_wg=jzjvS&pf_rd_p=0b2db3d1-33eb-418a-9672-bb9bd54808e8&pf_rd_r=QYMQJ3R3J6ZWBSB1SNPP&psc=1&refRID=QYMQJ3R3J6ZWBSB1SNPP
03:21 PM _unreal_: I may purchase that one
03:22 PM _unreal_: for now I'm just going to use the current PSU. till I get the machine up nad running
03:22 PM _unreal_: still need to get the spindle mounted
03:22 PM _unreal_: that is going to be a PIA
03:22 PM _unreal_: PITA
03:27 PM Rab: Anybody tried generic Macedonian end mills? https://www.ebay.com/itm/202302045606
03:29 PM Tom_L: nope
03:29 PM Tom_L: i try to use carbide when possible
03:30 PM Tom_L: cobalt might wear a little better
03:31 PM Rab: This would be for aluminum, I was looking for uncoated HSS.
03:36 PM Tom_L: i have no experience with that brand
03:39 PM Tom_L: branded ones are roughly 2x that
03:39 PM Tom_L: maybe worth a try
03:40 PM Tom_L: https://www.travers.com/2-flute-high-speed-steel-double-end-mills/p/425556/?keyword=1%2f2%20double%20ended%20endmill&lite=true&pricelistname=SITE#keyword=1%2F2%20double%20ended%20endmill&pricelistname=SITE&size=1%2F2%22
03:41 PM Tom_L: cobalt are about the same price
03:43 PM _unreal_: hum
03:43 PM Tom_L: Rab, for cnc or manual mill?
03:43 PM _unreal_: just discovered I have an over sight
03:43 PM Rab: McMaster-Carr has similar mystery USA brand mills for $30.16.
03:44 PM _unreal_: not an issue AT ALL
03:44 PM Tom_L: Rab, seems to be the ballpark price
03:44 PM Rab: Tom_L, manual, which might be another strike against carbide.
03:44 PM _unreal_: but I'm not going to be able to get the spindle mounted today as I was planning on.
03:44 PM Tom_L: i'd consider cobalt
03:44 PM Tom_L: it's a little tougher
03:44 PM Tom_L: about the same cost
03:44 PM Rab: Tom_L, yeah, I've been buying cobalt tools for stainless steel.
03:44 PM _unreal_: I need to drill likely 3 huge holes for relief of the X rail ubolt mounts
03:45 PM _unreal_: and GOOD lord my z I built is heavy
03:45 PM Tom_L: not as heavy as this rotary i bet :)
03:46 PM veegee: This Dremel engraver is great: https://www.amazon.ca/Dremel-290-01-Stroke-Engraver-Template/dp/B0000302YN/
03:46 PM veegee: amazing price and it works well
03:46 PM veegee: But damn, it has the thickest, stiffest power cord of all my electric tools
03:46 PM veegee: the tool itself weighs less than the power cord lol
03:46 PM Tom_L: did your crate survive?
03:47 PM veegee: Ah yeah, white tarp totally protected them
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: made in US $9ea https://www.shars.com/products/cutting/end-mills/1-2-x-1-2-hss-2-flute-double-end-mill
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: sorry not US made, the filter changed
03:53 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I was gonna say...
03:54 PM Rab: I just bought the Macedonian end mills, am excited to evaluate their quality.
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: keep us posted
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: ships from Michigan
04:08 PM veegee: I forgot who was using the neutrik powercon connectors here
04:09 PM veegee: But should I get the powercon 20A ones or the TRUE1 connectors which are rated for disconnect under load?
04:09 PM veegee: The TRUE1 models are 16A
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: lots here use them
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: what do you NEED?
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: how are you using them?
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: what makes you feel comfortable?
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: how much do you want to spend?
04:15 PM roycroft: i think andypugh has talked about the neutrik connectors before
04:16 PM andypugh: I don’t need to disconnect under load, but the one time I did, by accident, it got messy. But that was with 300V _DC_ which tends to be a bit more exciting when you strike an arc.
04:19 PM roycroft: i think i just reached a milestone
04:19 PM roycroft: i have no more rough timber for my workbench project - every part has been at least rough machined now
04:19 PM roycroft: i still have not a single finished part
04:19 PM roycroft: and i'm 46+ hours into it
04:19 PM Tom_L: you're fired
04:20 PM roycroft: but at least everything is smoothish and squarish now
04:20 PM rmu: lol
04:20 PM roycroft: i figured at the start this was a ~200 hour project
04:20 PM andypugh: roycroft: I know the feeling. It took me two solid days to get to: https://photos.app.goo.gl/eKWAE8PGBdHZdLjR8
04:20 PM roycroft: i'll have a better idea soon if 200 hours is realistic
04:21 PM Tom_L: andypugh, what you makin now?
04:21 PM Tom_L: or was that for the lathe in the living room?
04:21 PM roycroft: that's a nice pile of timber
04:21 PM andypugh: That’s something I made in 2013. Just remembering how much work squaring the rough-sawn wood was.
04:22 PM roycroft: it it ash?
04:22 PM andypugh: Yes, it’s the lathe cabinet
04:22 PM andypugh: Oak
04:22 PM roycroft: oh
04:22 PM Tom_L: turned out quite nice
04:22 PM veegee: CaptHindsight smallest and most compact. Either series is fine
04:22 PM renesis: .wz
04:22 PM roycroft: not american oak though
04:22 PM renesis: oh this is not whewre i thought
04:23 PM veegee: andypugh so you use the 20A model right?
04:23 PM roycroft: and yes, what i got was allegedly s2s
04:23 PM roycroft: but it was really rough
04:23 PM andypugh: roycroft: Actually, it _is_ American oak, as I was making a stand for an American lathe.
04:23 PM roycroft: that does not look like american white oak - the grain is not right
04:23 PM roycroft: and it is the wrong color for american red oak
04:23 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/aWNPr1j6QNa9FHWa6
04:24 PM roycroft: that photo makes it look more like red oak
04:24 PM andypugh: It was sold to me as American White Oak. Which I would normally eschew.
04:24 PM roycroft: it's weird oak
04:24 PM andypugh: I fumed the cabinet after assembly to make it a bit darker
04:25 PM roycroft: that seems to have partially worked
04:25 PM andypugh: Fuming setup: https://photos.app.goo.gl/uKosP6tVoXPW2qhS8
04:25 PM roycroft: maybe it's all the flat-sawn boards that make it not look like white oak
04:26 PM roycroft: i usually get quarter-sawn white oak
04:26 PM roycroft: did you get the ammonia from a blueprint outfit?
04:27 PM roycroft: household ammonia would take forever to fume decently
04:27 PM andypugh: No, it’s readily available in shops in the UK.
04:27 PM andypugh: I think perhaps out household ammonia is stronger than yours, I seem to recall it took a couple of hours.
04:28 PM roycroft: since you did the fuming indoors i'll assume you used household ammonia
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: I use the XLR since I need 5 contacts + shield
04:28 PM roycroft: the blueprint stuff is really strong
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: I think the power con versions are 2 contacts + ground
04:28 PM roycroft: when i used it i had to buy a special respirator to work around it
04:29 PM veegee: CaptHindsight Yeah that's what I need
04:29 PM veegee: Just have to decide between the 20A model and the TRUE1
04:29 PM roycroft: anyway, my workbench consists almost entirely of laminiated parts - everything is big and thick
04:29 PM roycroft: so i'm doing a *lot* of gluing up
04:30 PM roycroft: i'm using titebond iii
04:30 PM roycroft: so if anyone is an investor, here's a hint to buy more titebond stock :)
04:31 PM roycroft: the bench legs are 120mm square
04:31 PM roycroft: the bench top is 115mm thick
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: I can't bear to look, too much oak cabinetry in the USA
04:32 PM roycroft: stretchers are 60mm x 125mm
04:32 PM roycroft: i love oak
04:32 PM roycroft: and i hate oak
04:32 PM roycroft: good, quartersawn white oak is beautiful
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: I prefer 70's avocado to anything oak
04:33 PM roycroft: flat sawn red oak is well matched to the avocado and mustard appliances of its vintage
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: knotty pine
04:33 PM roycroft: english brown oak is also a beautiful wood
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: purple heart
04:33 PM CaptHindsight: bubinga
04:33 PM andypugh: We went through a lot of oak doing up the old house. https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ui8vCLKL3Mj9a9Vf1
04:33 PM roycroft: i'm making my bench out of ash
04:33 PM andypugh: All local eurpean oak, in that case.
04:33 PM roycroft: there will be walnut end cap dovetailed on the right side
04:34 PM roycroft: and some walnut and cherry accents
04:34 PM roycroft: but it's 90+% ash
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: if it's oak to the excess then i don't mind
04:34 PM andypugh: (Though the table you can see is Elm)
04:34 PM roycroft: i've not been taking any build pictures
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: but oak cabinets just ion the kitchen blaaahhhh
04:34 PM roycroft: but i'll take some pics when it's done
04:34 PM andypugh: Well, we have an oak roof structure, dooes and stairs. :-)
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: yes, very fitting
04:35 PM CaptHindsight: sorry vomiting https://s3.amazonaws.com/rtaproducts/category/regal-oak-kitchen-cabinets.jpg
04:36 PM roycroft: yes, capthindsight, almost everything bad there is about red oak is in that picture
04:37 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.aristokraft.com/-/media/aristokraft/products/door_styles/oakland/oaklanowesd.jpg
04:37 PM roycroft: andypugh: since i'm working with fairly large, thick timbers, my machining is being done in stages
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: I have to go look at artwork or something to reset my brain
04:38 PM roycroft: because the wood moves after being machined
04:38 PM roycroft: especially since it was kiln-dried
04:38 PM roycroft: so i do rough machining
04:38 PM roycroft: then a secondary machining
04:38 PM roycroft: then final machining to exact dimension just before joinery
04:39 PM andypugh: The house stuff was done green, then allowed to move afterwards for authentic wobbes.
04:39 PM andypugh: (wobbles)
04:39 PM roycroft: and that's quite appropriate for the house
04:39 PM roycroft: since i'm making a workbench that is a reference surface for making other parts i need it to be dimensionally quite stable
04:40 PM andypugh: Granite worktop on oak base. To really upset CaptHindsight
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.rockler.com/bubinga-by-the-piece-1-8-thickness
04:40 PM CaptHindsight: just to be able to say BUBINGA
04:41 PM roycroft: i really don't want to be planing the benchtop flat more than once/year
04:41 PM roycroft: and i don't think my planes and chisels would appreciate a granite benchtop :)
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: your place looks like some place that elves or faeries would frequent, very nice
04:43 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: It _suits_ Christmas, certainly: https://photos.app.goo.gl/upiWuTxzZKkpJZmm1
04:45 PM andypugh: I am working on the Dwarvish beard at the moment.
04:45 PM CaptHindsight: sans the electric lights, you don't know what century it is from
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: love the stone floors as well
04:46 PM andypugh: It would be interesting to try it with actual candles.
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: is the floor mostly slate?
04:47 PM andypugh: Bottom right of the second photo, that rough bit of floor is the old open hearth, before they modernised and put in the inglenook chimney some time in the 16th century.
04:47 PM andypugh: The floor is local sandstone.
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: my current place is only 10 years old
04:49 PM CaptHindsight: the blink of an eye
04:49 PM andypugh: My own house is about 30 years old.
04:50 PM CaptHindsight: was the old place lived in for most of it's life?
04:52 PM CaptHindsight: did you find any growth marks on any of the woodwork? Great great great grandpa age 3, 6, 9 12
04:54 PM andypugh: No, when my parents bought it it had no roof, and the room I have been posting pctures of had been used as pig stys.
04:55 PM andypugh: Very old web site here, from the days when “thumbnail” really eant something. http://www.bodgesoc.org/slaithwaite.html
04:57 PM CaptHindsight: yes, recall the pics, I just for get the history other than 800 years old or thereabouts
04:59 PM CaptHindsight: 200 is max for around here, unless you count caves
05:03 PM andypugh: It’s interesting that there seem to be different opinions on the age of the pueblo cliff dwelleings.
05:04 PM andypugh: Wikipedia says 1190 to 1260 AD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Palace
05:08 PM andypugh: But when I looked into it a few weeks ago there were web pages (which, of course, I can’t find now) saying that they were from 2000BC
05:08 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.oldest.org/structures/buildings-america/
05:09 PM CaptHindsight: I've been to the ones in New Mexico
05:12 PM andypugh: I suspect that the “Ship of Theseus” principle applies to many of those buildings.
05:13 PM andypugh: Though adobe does lend itself to slapping another layer on the outside when it starts to look scrufft.
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: I'm in the midwest so early 1800's is about it
05:18 PM CaptHindsight: we have town established around here nearly 200 years ago that still only have ~100 for populations, good planning if you want slow and quiet
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: town/s
05:44 PM CaptHindsight: now the the user mail list looks like reprap
05:44 PM CaptHindsight: shoot me now
05:47 PM roycroft: i adhere to the principle that if components are replaced with like components the object remains fundamentally the same
05:47 PM roycroft: the question is whether the replacement components are truly "like" components
05:48 PM roycroft: the oxford dining hall repair is a good example of truly like components
05:49 PM roycroft: the problem being that in modern times it can be difficult to source like components if the original components are natural, and not manufactured
05:59 PM unterhaus: I was looking at socket organizers today at the store. I don't really understand why they are so expensive
05:59 PM unterhaus: Probably pay for a 3d printer just making those and wrench organizers
06:33 PM roycroft: i haven't gotten around to that yet, but i'm planning on 3d printing organizers for my mechanics tools
06:33 PM roycroft: i've purchased various organizers over the years, and while i'm not unhappy about the price, they really don't fit my eeds all that well
06:33 PM roycroft: although the socket organizers i purchased from sears come the closest
06:34 PM * roycroft wishes glue ups did not take so long, as he has heaps of them to do but not enough space to do multiples at a time
07:23 PM Thorhian: Does anybody know how one would choose an encoder for a spindle?
07:24 PM robotustra: which spindle?
07:24 PM robotustra: and where are you going to connect this encoder?
07:25 PM robotustra: the output of encoder could be differential or open collector
07:25 PM Thorhian: I have a mesa 7I76. It's a cheaper BT30 spindle (one of the green ones that you see on ebay). I don't know much about encoders so I am not sure.
07:26 PM Thorhian: 8000 RPM is the max, probably lower.
07:26 PM robotustra: I'm not sure you can even crank it at such RPM
07:26 PM robotustra: are you going to do rigid tapping?
07:27 PM robotustra: is it for mill or for lathe?
07:27 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/calipers/Mitutoyo2.jpg
07:28 PM robotustra: white oak
07:28 PM Tom_L: it was in the scrap bin
07:28 PM Thorhian: It's for a mill I'm building robotustra
07:29 PM Thorhian: I'd like to do rigid tapping, but I won't be doing that until I get a powerful AC servo motor.
07:29 PM Thorhian: And Dang Tom lol
07:29 PM robotustra: for linux cnc rigid tapping it's recommended to have at least 2000 ppr to do rigid tapping
07:30 PM robotustra: but if you just want to monitor rpm any encoder starting from 1000 ppr will be ok
07:31 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: someone threw that caliper and gage block and container in trash?
07:31 PM Thorhian: Ah I see. When searching for encoders, should I just type "2000 ppr encoder" or how should I go about that?
07:31 PM robotustra: yes
07:32 PM robotustra: I got omron encoder
07:32 PM robotustra: there are different types of output in encoders
07:32 PM Thorhian: If I want to do rigid tapping should I go above 2000 ppr, especially for when I get a better and more controllable servo motor?
07:32 PM robotustra: 1) differential or 2) open drain (collector)
07:33 PM robotustra: yes, 2000 is already good for rigid tapping
07:33 PM Thorhian: So no, just get 2000ppr?
07:33 PM robotustra: нуы
07:33 PM robotustra: yes
07:34 PM Thorhian: Sorry lol, just need to make sure.
07:34 PM Thorhian: I better look at the mesa board docs to see what kind of output it wants.
07:34 PM robotustra: I'm not sure but I think 7i76 can handle both types
07:35 PM Thorhian: The 7i76 is quite an awesome board :) Glad I got it.
07:35 PM robotustra: https://www.ebay.com/itm/OMRON-Rotary-Encoder-E6B2-CWZ1X-2000P-R-E6B2CWZ1X-5VDC-New-in-box-Free-shipping/332386539771?hash=item4d63c818fb:g:pKsAAOSwEehbO8E8
07:36 PM robotustra: this one has differential output
07:36 PM Thorhian: Holy crud taht is cheap./
07:36 PM robotustra: E6B2CWZ1X
07:37 PM XXCoder: heh reminds me of that time I used magnets and hall sensor as encoder. turns out that that encoder sucked and had low hz limit. i bought 1 khz one but havent tested it
07:37 PM robotustra: OMRON 2000P Incremental Rotary Encoder 2000p/r E6B2-CWZ3E NPN Volt Output
07:37 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, yeah :)
07:38 PM robotustra: OMRON 2000P Incremental Rotary Encoder 2000p/r 12~24V DC E6B2-CWZ5B PNP
07:38 PM robotustra: so, 3 types
07:38 PM robotustra: diff, npn, pnp
07:39 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/pdf/Nemicon%20OME%20Encoder.pdf
07:40 PM robotustra: Thorhian, I think the encoder pulses are multiplied by 4 because of 2 channels and 2 edges on each pulse
07:40 PM Tom_L: i'm using those on my spindle. i got them off some surplus medical equipment
07:40 PM Tom_L: 500cpr
07:40 PM Tom_L: plenty good for rigid tapping
07:40 PM robotustra: yes, because it' multiplied by 4 inside
07:41 PM Tom_L: 2k quad
07:41 PM Thorhian: Now I just need to figure out what I will use in terms of belts/pulleys lol. I'd probably want to use a time belt between the spindle and encoder and something between the spindle and motor.
07:41 PM robotustra: better to have it 1:!
07:41 PM robotustra: 1:1
07:41 PM robotustra: timing belt
07:42 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc1.jpg
07:42 PM Thorhian: Between the encoder and spindle yeah, I get that.
07:42 PM Thorhian: Should I use a timing belt between the motor and spindle?
07:42 PM Tom_L: i would
07:43 PM Tom_L: so it doesn't slip
07:43 PM robotustra: Tom_L, oh, yu have even 3 channels the number of pilses is 3000 per rotation
07:43 PM Tom_L: no
07:43 PM Tom_L: the 3rd channel is an index
07:43 PM Tom_L: 1 ppr
07:43 PM Thorhian: With a 1.8KW or 3KW motor would timing belts be okay?
07:43 PM robotustra: ok
07:44 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, check the data sheet on what the belts/pulleys are rated for
07:44 PM robotustra: Thorhian, it depends on how deaf you are
07:44 PM Thorhian: I am not deaf. I have sensitive hearing. I don't want even more noise.
07:44 PM robotustra: timing belts a ok till 3000 rpm, if higher - it could do a lot of noise
07:45 PM Tom_L: i run mine up to around 5k
07:45 PM robotustra: it's better to use multithread v-belt
07:45 PM Tom_L: yeah those are probably better
07:45 PM robotustra: like a generator in the car
07:45 PM Thorhian: The reason why I didn't want to connect the encoder to motor was because I want it to read the spindle's actual RPM. especially if I have a non-1:1 relationship between the motor and spindle.
07:46 PM robotustra: yep
07:46 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, i have that exact situation
07:46 PM Thorhian: I've heard of the multi/poly v belt stuff.
07:46 PM robotustra: motor -> spindle VVVVV belt, and spindle to encoder - timing belt
07:47 PM Thorhian: But then you get a crap ton of noise because of the timing belt. I guess I can't win there.
07:47 PM robotustra: you can make 1:1 plastic gear
07:48 PM robotustra: there is no torque on encoder
07:48 PM Thorhian: True.
07:49 PM robotustra: if you'll use narrow timing belt with small tooth probably you'll hear no noise
07:49 PM robotustra: like GT2
07:49 PM robotustra: there are timing belts which can handle high rpms with low noise
07:50 PM Thorhian: I'll just have to figure out how to put in tension into all of the belts (especially the main motor belt). I didn't really account for that in my design XD
07:50 PM robotustra: I think it's GT series
07:50 PM robotustra: transision plate with elliptical holes
07:50 PM robotustra: the simplest way
07:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Z_Motormount3.jpg
07:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Z_Motormount4.jpg
07:52 PM Thorhian: Is that what you were refering to robot, the design in tom's photos?
07:52 PM robotustra: yes
07:52 PM Tom_L: you could put a tensioner screw on the front side for positive tension
07:52 PM Tom_L: then lock it down
07:52 PM robotustra: the simple tension approach
07:53 PM Thorhian: THe main annoyance is that I have a BLDC motor that is usually used for small motorcycles, doesn't have a nice NEMA-like face to mount it like that. Mounts of the side of the motor.
07:55 PM robotustra: anyway, you can make a transition plate
08:03 PM Thorhian: The motor I currently have (I will remove the chain gear on it): https://imgur.com/a/QGZqauF
08:04 PM Tom_L: make an L plate to mount it like i did
08:04 PM Tom_L: like 3" angle iron or such
08:04 PM Thorhian: The screw holes it has on it's face are M5s. I'm not sure how well that would hold the motor lol.
08:05 PM Tom_L: no, to the mount
08:05 PM Tom_L: the M5 should hold if it's a snug fit
08:05 PM Tom_L: either way would work
08:06 PM robotustra: what is the spec of this motor?
08:06 PM Thorhian: Hmmm, So create an L on the side mount. It's a 48v 1.8KW motor, rated for up to 4500 RPM.
08:06 PM Tom_L: are those front holes just to hold the motor together?
08:06 PM Tom_L: screwed in from the back side?
08:07 PM robotustra: 48 volts DC?
08:07 PM Thorhian: Yes robotustra
08:07 PM Thorhian: I did say it was a BLDC motor.
08:07 PM robotustra: 1800 / 48 = 37.5 A
08:07 PM Thorhian: Yeah I know.
08:08 PM robotustra: how are you going to power it?
08:08 PM Thorhian: I ordered a ZVS (Zero Voltage Switching) PSU, but it arrived damaged. Trying to get my money back and figure something else out.
08:09 PM Thorhian: I do have a 240V AC outlet to power whatever motor I use as long as I can convert to the need voltage (and to DC if needed).
08:10 PM robotustra: ok, but still 40 A is not a joke you'll need pretty good cooling on your semiconductors
08:10 PM robotustra: rectifiers
08:11 PM Thorhian: Yep, and the PSU's guts don't look like a joke either, problem is that they didn't pack it well and the ferrite surrounding one of the transformers inside was shattered into plenty of pieces.
08:11 PM Thorhian: https://imgur.com/a/QeijUpv
08:12 PM robotustra: hm
08:12 PM Thorhian: Was capable of a max of 3000W supposedly, and I was only going to use a little over half of that.
08:12 PM Thorhian: But I will be starting a paypal dispute if they don't get back to me soon.
08:13 PM Tom_L: that's a hefty motor. what's it off of?
08:13 PM Thorhian: I bought it with a controller off of amazon for $100.
08:13 PM Tom_L: damn
08:14 PM Tom_L: any more?
08:14 PM Thorhian: The main problem is that it is DC at 48V, making it tricky to power without using batteries (it's intended use case for small motorcycles).
08:14 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:14 PM Tom_L: alot of current
08:15 PM Thorhian: I'd just try to pay a little bit more and go with a cheap AC servo, that way you don't need to look for fancy $90 - $100+ ZVS PSUs.
08:15 PM Tom_L: i want to find one i can power from mains
08:17 PM Thorhian: https://www.ebay.com/itm/264729624249
08:17 PM Thorhian: Just need a 240V line.
08:17 PM Thorhian: Which I am using lol.
08:21 PM Thorhian: That would have been around an extra $100 compared to the current motor and PSU that I bought, but I wouldn't be trying to get such a weird config running and deal with a massive DC PSU.
08:21 PM Thorhian: Freaking Banggood.
08:22 PM Tom_L: the rpm isn't enough for me
08:23 PM Thorhian: I mean, with that power output, I'd just use some gearing to turn some the torque into more RPM.
08:24 PM _unreal_: this is sooo painful for me. I'm taking my CNC appart.
08:24 PM _unreal_: in prep for the new z setup
08:24 PM _unreal_: :S
08:24 PM _unreal_: Ive also discovered most of the non sealed bearings are shot
08:24 PM Thorhian: RIP
08:25 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, what signal does that require to operate?
08:25 PM Thorhian: The AC motor? I don't know.
08:27 PM Tom_L: could require a driver mod to work with linuxcnc
08:29 PM _unreal_: so far I have the new spindle motor controller all wired in "fingers crossed" and with no luck there are no errors
08:29 PM _unreal_: right now I'm working on getting the new Z I built mounted
08:29 PM _unreal_: after ripping apart the old Z setup
08:29 PM _unreal_: :S
08:30 PM _unreal_: if I was to put it together again it would take me a week litteraly
08:30 PM _unreal_: heh
08:30 PM Thorhian: What is a good spindle motor that is fairly compatible with LinuxCNC? Just generic 3 phase motors being controlled with a VFD?
08:30 PM _unreal_: the new setup is so modualar
08:30 PM Thorhian: Also, I wish you luck unreal.
08:30 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, any motor can be compatiable just depends on the interface
08:31 PM _unreal_: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717411349541683212/738917731151118376/15962420896107010412417595846703.jpg
08:31 PM _unreal_: the NEW z is laying down
08:32 PM _unreal_: I am wishing I had milled relief holes for the ubolts
08:32 PM _unreal_: in the new z
08:32 PM _unreal_: I'm going to have to manually mkae them :S
08:33 PM _unreal_: oh well
08:33 PM _unreal_: locate them and 3/4" drillbit
08:34 PM _unreal_: I am very likely going to have to upgrade the z stepper
08:45 PM _unreal_: I guess I killed the chat
08:45 PM Thorhian: Lol I'm just trying to think about what I should do about my spindle motor situation lol
09:01 PM colten: evening
09:01 PM colten: took a few minutes to do the registration process
09:02 PM _unreal_: and what is your spindle motor situation?
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: yes, just depends on how much power you want
09:08 PM Thorhian: CaptHindsight, _unreal_, I have a motor and broken PSU for it that I'm trying to get my money back. It's a BLDC motor, 48V, 1.8KW.
09:08 PM _unreal_: ?
09:08 PM _unreal_: broken PSU?
09:09 PM _unreal_: do you have a VFD? for the spindle?
09:09 PM _unreal_: what is wrong with the PSU?
09:10 PM Thorhian: Yes I have a VFD for the motor. The ZVS PSU was damaged in shipping from Banggood. Reported it to them within 7 days with pics and a video. A whole bunch of ferrite was falling out of the PSU when I unwrapped it.
09:11 PM CaptHindsight: https://neumotors.cartloom.com/storefront ships from USA
09:11 PM Thorhian: They offered me $20 credit as a token refund when I spent almost $100 on it. Some people here convinced me later to pursue them for the full refund and go to paypal if they dont. I think it was jymmmm.
09:13 PM Thorhian: I have the motor and controller already cap, just don't have a way to supply it with power properly from my 240V line in my garage since the PSUs transformer was busted.
09:14 PM CaptHindsight: what power does the controller require?
09:14 PM CaptHindsight: how many V, how mnay A?
09:14 PM Thorhian: A ZVS system does a decent job since the mosfets in the PSU don't switch until the AC signal is 0V, making rectifying a lot more efficient. It's a 48V controller I believe, same as the motor. They came as a pair, originaly made for motorcycle mods.
09:15 PM _unreal_: thorhiam are you in the USA or cananda or where?
09:15 PM Thorhian: USA
09:16 PM Thorhian: The controller takes 48V, max current 33A.
09:18 PM colten: that's a pretty hefty 48v psu
09:18 PM _unreal_: 33amps wow
09:18 PM _unreal_: you may want to look into getting a transformer
09:18 PM Thorhian: Yep, hence why it's not a standard Switching PSU, it does Zero-Voltage-Switching.
09:18 PM colten: pretty sure my toroidal psu's don't even come close
09:18 PM _unreal_: regulated transformer.
09:19 PM Thorhian: That would involve creating a rectifier that could handle a lot of current unreal.
09:22 PM colten: rectifier is least of the problems. draw on the transformer would be
09:24 PM colten: there is a 1500w 48v switching ps on amazon. 31 amps
09:24 PM Thorhian: Yeah and I am not experienced with building electrical circuits, let alone high-voltage and high-current ones.
09:24 PM Thorhian: That would be kind of dangerous to use wouldn't it? I went with 3000W to make sure I'm well under the max rating.
09:25 PM colten: hah. there is a 3000w unit on there as well. $420 canuck bucks
09:26 PM Thorhian: Yikes.
09:26 PM colten: that 1500w was $200
09:27 PM Thorhian: Found a 42Amp for $350 USD.
09:28 PM robotustra: Thorhian, did you already built your machine?
09:29 PM Thorhian: I'm in the process, mostly done grinding and I'm drilling and tapping holes ATM.
09:29 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: Yeah, it was me, that's just BS on their part
09:29 PM colten: so what kind of bldc motor did you get?
09:30 PM Thorhian: A 48V, 1800W output. Don't know a whole lot about it other than that it is rated to go up to 4500 RPM.
09:31 PM Thorhian: This is what it looks like colten: https://imgur.com/a/QGZqauF
09:33 PM robotustra: Thorhian, what was the reason to 3d print own cups for keyboards?
09:33 PM colten: yeah. that thing is a monster
09:34 PM Thorhian: Oh lol, my caps? Because I'm poor and don't want to spend $100+ on a SA keycap set when I could just make some half decent ones with the plastic I already had. I actually want to sell 60% keyboard cases and maybe keycaps as well once I get my mill working well.
09:35 PM Thorhian: Part of the point of me building this mill is that I feel like I can make some money on the side while I'm still in school (and to learn more about machining and real time systems).
09:38 PM Thorhian: Even though im spending plenty of money to do this, I'm still paying a lot less than on a lower end Tormach machine lol
09:39 PM robotustra: I just got recently g0704 like machine for 2000
09:39 PM robotustra: I think in murica you can buy it for 1500 about
09:40 PM Thorhian: You would still need to convert it, and yeah I'm on Grizzly's site. Its around 1600.
09:40 PM robotustra: if you cnc it it will cost you about the same amount or so
09:40 PM colten: I'm working on a 48in square plasma table. waiting for my machine torch to arrive
09:41 PM robotustra: in 3k you'll have good cnc mill with minimal troble
09:41 PM Thorhian: I am learning a ton though doing from scratch :) I'm quite grateful actually.
09:41 PM robotustra: I had built my first router from scratch - but I can't mill steel on it, so I got g0704 and it mills still very good
09:42 PM colten: g0704 is great for certain things for sure.
09:43 PM robotustra: If I would wizer I would do reverce, got g0704 and then do my router
09:43 PM colten: have a look at some of the video's from clough42 on youtube
09:43 PM Thorhian: I built an MPCNC. Not a very good router for metals but I still learned a bit about actually working with CNC machines that aren't 3D printers.
09:43 PM robotustra: it could save me 2 years of time
09:44 PM colten: clough42 does some amazing work with the g0704 cnc'd
09:44 PM robotustra: colten, I watch his channel from time to time
09:44 PM colten: so your watching to current spindle upgrade?
09:44 PM robotustra: mine mill is canadian variant of g0704
09:45 PM Thorhian: The spindle motor seems a bit underpowered. I kind of like having a BT30 spindle as well from the getgo.
09:45 PM colten: kc20vs
09:45 PM robotustra: yes, but I'm not going to modify my mill and I want to leave as many original parts
09:45 PM robotustra: yep
09:45 PM colten: same mill I have
09:46 PM robotustra: I don't know why they call it kc20vs-2
09:46 PM robotustra: i remade nuts on it
09:46 PM colten: right now I'm attempting to find and remove the source of backlash in my X travel. make's it unusable for cnc
09:47 PM colten: 1/4 revolution of the hand dial in backlash
09:47 PM robotustra: haha
09:47 PM Thorhian: I'm curious, are there advantages to using dovetail ways in a machine vs using linear rails (besides costs)?
09:47 PM robotustra: colten, I have only 1 division
09:47 PM robotustra: 0.002"
09:47 PM colten: accuracy on high end machines. dovetail ways have a gib to adjust the backlash
09:47 PM robotustra: on X
09:48 PM robotustra: there is one on kc20 too
09:48 PM robotustra: it's on the nut
09:48 PM robotustra: but if you have 1/4 of turn - it means someching wrong with your bearings
09:49 PM colten: I was in a machine dealership the other day and was amazed at how smooth the small mill was that they had setup. compared to mine.
09:49 PM Thorhian: Huh, I don't have a way of milling dovetails currently, or giant slabs of cast iron, so I just bought linear rails. Good stuff IMO. Went with C7 grade ballscrews as well. Do the grizzly's use leadscrews or ballscrews stock?
09:49 PM robotustra: you should have 2 bearings on right side and 1 on the left
09:49 PM colten: lead
09:50 PM robotustra: colten, https://i.imgur.com/o6ODMkO.jpg
09:50 PM colten: I've got the ballscrews to upgrade mine. but I can't make the parts I need.
09:50 PM robotustra: I made it on the mill with old nuts
09:50 PM robotustra: it's for axis X
09:50 PM colten: nice
09:50 PM robotustra: I got 2 ACME nuts from mcmaster-carr
09:51 PM robotustra: https://i.imgur.com/6IRwmSO.jpg
09:51 PM robotustra: one is CW, another CCW
09:51 PM robotustra: CW is on the axis X
09:51 PM robotustra: CCW on the axis Y
09:51 PM colten: unfortunately they don't ship to canada
09:52 PM robotustra: they ship. I'm in canada
09:52 PM robotustra: 2 nuts for about 80 cad
09:52 PM Thorhian: Is McMaster-Carr any good? They always seem overpriced.
09:52 PM colten: they've absolutely refused to send to me for years
09:53 PM colten: even got in a trouble for using a re-shipper
09:53 PM robotustra: ACME nuts are expensive, minimal price I find - 30$
09:53 PM robotustra: colten, where do you live?
09:53 PM Thorhian: I meant in general, not specifically with ACME nuts.
09:53 PM robotustra: I got mine in 24 hours
09:53 PM colten: saskatchewan
09:53 PM robotustra: ah I see, I'm in montreal
09:54 PM robotustra: colten, https://i.imgur.com/PRzepbc.jpg
09:54 PM robotustra: X installed
09:55 PM Rab: McMaster-Carr is awesome. Often their prices are very reasonable. Many other items are priced for industrial customers, which is their market.
09:55 PM robotustra: colten, Y nut a bit longer, I milled an extender for it: https://imgur.com/gallery/VuStqIz
09:56 PM robotustra: I reduced backlash 2 times I think
09:57 PM robotustra: original nuts has only 20 mm of thread
09:57 PM robotustra: and the thread it garbage
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: colten: are they anti-Canadian?
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: I ship to reshippers all the time
09:58 PM robotustra: I think they don't have a warehause near sascatchewan
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: unless they have some treaty with suppliers to not sell to Canada
09:59 PM CaptHindsight: 45 minute drive for me, 30 minute line inside
09:59 PM robotustra: I'm in canada but they ship to me
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: the building is very large, takes 5 minutes to drive around it
10:02 PM Tom_L: there are a couple like that here
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: and of course they make you take the long way to get to will call
10:02 PM Tom_L: on the highway it takes maybe 30 sec to drive past them at speed
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: 20 mph speed limit on their driveway
10:03 PM Tom_L: i've no idea what they are but often wondered if they were amazon warehouses
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: the Amazon warehouses around here are that size
10:03 PM Tom_L: no signs or easy access
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://goo.gl/maps/ZZ3bY1xt4FqwwimM7
10:05 PM colten: hey. something's changed. I was able to place a order.. happy dance
10:05 PM CaptHindsight: \0/
10:07 PM robotustra: colten, I told you, may be with covid situation they are ready to ship even to polar bears
10:07 PM robotustra: and to penguins
10:07 PM colten: possibly. last time I tried was a year or so ago.
10:07 PM colten: I'll take it though
10:09 PM robotustra: on Y axis I'm happy, because tha backlash is less than 0.001"
10:10 PM robotustra: but on axis X I think I'll put double nut with a washer spring
10:10 PM robotustra: to remove backlash at all