#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 30 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
05:16 AM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, no not your average reprap
05:47 AM JT-Cave: morning
08:24 AM veegee: Anyone have any recommendations for an "industrial" laptop?
08:24 AM veegee: That is, something rugged, designed to get real work done
08:24 AM veegee: good amount of I/O, excellent Linux/open source support
08:24 AM veegee: no bullshit
08:40 AM robotustra: what I/O is expected to be?
08:42 AM robotustra: what amount of RAM? CPU? SDD?
08:43 AM Loetmichel: vegee: i would recommend GDI tadpole or Dell XFR... DONT buy Toughbooks. they are (IMHO) garbage
08:43 AM Loetmichel: sit down before you look at the prices though
08:44 AM Loetmichel: veegee: IMHO the old IBM thinkpads were more rugged than any modern toughbook.
08:45 AM robotustra: Linux Ubuntu 10.10
08:45 AM robotustra: are you kidding?
08:45 AM Loetmichel: who are you talking to?
08:45 AM robotustra: they install it on that kind of laptops
08:46 AM robotustra: Do they have usb3.0?
08:46 AM robotustra: I don't see it in the spec
08:46 AM robotustra: it's Optional
08:46 AM Loetmichel: the XFR has.
08:46 AM Loetmichel: gdi: no idea, gimme a moment (*walks into the demo room*)
08:47 AM robotustra: I'm looking into this: https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/latit/ja/latitude-e6420-xfr-spec-sheet.pdf
08:47 AM Loetmichel: cant find the GDI
08:48 AM Loetmichel: but we also use some GETAC (S400 and similar) rugged notebooks. they are good
08:49 AM Loetmichel: robotustra: yes. ours has usb3.
08:49 AM robotustra: yeah, you have to choose between "ruggyness" and "top notched" hardware
08:50 AM robotustra: can it work under the water?
08:50 AM Loetmichel: point i wanted to make: i would pay for a new IBM thinkpad rather than buy a new toughbook (if IBM would still make those)... Toughbooks are LOOKING tough but arent really.
08:51 AM Loetmichel: no, thats a bit more expensive
08:51 AM robotustra: what leptop can work on the beach and under the water?
08:52 AM Loetmichel: robotustra: try Miltope
08:52 AM Loetmichel: they have some that are waterproof
08:53 AM Loetmichel: we had an RLC-3g here. that claimed to be waterproof including diving up to 3m ;)
08:54 AM Loetmichel: but $15k is a bold price
08:54 AM robotustra: I'm sure you didn't test them
08:54 AM robotustra: because of the price
08:54 AM Loetmichel: we modify such stuff to be tempest proof
08:55 AM Loetmichel: we changed a lot of the gaskets to wire mesh gaskets
08:55 AM Loetmichel: i doubt its still waterproof
08:55 AM Loetmichel: and no, we didnt test it against water
08:55 AM Loetmichel: but IIRC it looked pretty good when i dismantled it. should have been tough enough to dive with IMHO
08:56 AM robotustra: so you just beleive in somebodies words?
08:56 AM Loetmichel: i believe in what i saw when i dismantled it.
08:56 AM robotustra: ok
08:56 AM Loetmichel: to me that looked pretty watertight
08:56 AM robotustra: So it can withstand the heavy rain?
08:56 AM Loetmichel: absolutely
08:57 AM robotustra: if you forget it on a balcony and it got good shower
08:57 AM Loetmichel: but that shouldnt even be a problem for a standard Thinkpad, provided it sits horizontally on some desk
08:57 AM Loetmichel: been there did that
08:57 AM Loetmichel: was an original thinkpad though
08:57 AM robotustra: but what about keyboard?
08:58 AM robotustra: how it's waterprooved?
08:58 AM Loetmichel: original IBM thinkpads have channels in the keyboard that can direct water THRU the mainboard out the bottom
08:58 AM Loetmichel: nothing happens unless the amount of water is overwhelming the channels
08:58 AM robotustra: oh, cool
08:59 AM Loetmichel: the remedie when you have spilled a soft drink over a think pad is literally dousing it in a couple cups of clear water to get any sugar out, then let it dry
08:59 AM Loetmichel: works every time.
09:01 AM Loetmichel: btw: i left a HP probook in my convertible over the winter... came back next summer to about a 2" pool on the floor... the probook completely submerged...
09:01 AM Loetmichel: took it out, cleaned it with a few gallons of distilled water, let it dry a couple weeks, plugged it in: works
09:02 AM Loetmichel: only thing that was really damaged was the (rotating) HDD, it had tons of bad secors
09:02 AM Loetmichel: and it now "crunches" a bit when you plug in any external plug (rusted shields)
09:03 AM Loetmichel: still sits on my desk here at the company and does its thing (with a new HDD)
09:03 AM robotustra: Why military notebooks are not made of metal enclosure?
09:04 AM Loetmichel: but they are
09:04 AM robotustra: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miltope-MSD-B-Military-Laptop-6625-01-502-5188-/164106774674
09:04 AM robotustra: I like this one but it callt be shipped to canada
09:05 AM robotustra: I had an idea to buy one of this any upgrade the internals
09:05 AM Loetmichel: it IS aluminium/magnesium
09:05 AM Loetmichel: just painted green
09:05 AM Loetmichel: we have one of those
09:07 AM robotustra: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-XFR-Military-Rugged-Laptop-i5-Computer/223196190001
09:07 AM robotustra: this one has plastic body
09:07 AM Loetmichel: only partially
09:08 AM Loetmichel: under that plastic shell is a metal frame
09:08 AM Loetmichel: i know, i have dismantled a few ;)
09:08 AM robotustra: is it difficult to upgrade to own cpu/motherboards for such military grade laptops?
09:09 AM Loetmichel: OUCH... what did they do to that poor thing?
09:09 AM robotustra: I think they "tested" it
09:09 AM Loetmichel: no, especially the dell is the normal lattitude mainboard in a different enclosure
09:09 AM Loetmichel: so no problem to upgrade
09:10 AM robotustra: I'm curious if it's possible to poke hardware from thinkpad in the military enclosure
09:10 AM Loetmichel: i doubt it
09:10 AM robotustra: like T60
09:10 AM Loetmichel: you dont need to though
09:11 AM Loetmichel: T60 is rugged as it is
09:11 AM robotustra: true
09:11 AM robotustra: pretty rugged
09:11 AM * Loetmichel has dropped an X21 once. tried to catch it with my foot resulting in kicking it across the shop floor.
09:12 AM Loetmichel: made a dent in the double layer drywall... not even rebooted ;)
09:12 AM robotustra: Oh I have an idea, take a top notch notebook and make new gugged enclosure for it
09:13 AM Loetmichel: BTDT
09:13 AM Loetmichel: https://www.cordsen.com/images/CE_Media/_img_pdf/ATS-3520T-27A_eng.pdf
09:13 AM Loetmichel: made a few 10 of these
09:14 AM Loetmichel: inside is a Dell Precision mobile workstation ;)
09:15 AM Loetmichel: and yes. that body is made of pure aluminium and steel (only brass parts are the hinges)
09:15 AM robotustra: so, the idea make sense
09:17 AM Loetmichel: if you have very deep pockets: yes
09:18 AM Loetmichel: and some guts... thats how the NEW notebooks looked when i was ready to put them into the new enclosure: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17104&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:22 AM Loetmichel: my boss always shudders when i crack open some display frames... takes usually quite a bit of force and some crunching sounds to disloge the clips ;)
09:23 AM robotustra: how much usually such upgrade costs?
09:25 AM Loetmichel: about 3-5 times the source part
09:25 AM Loetmichel: at least
09:25 AM Loetmichel: its a lot of manual work
09:25 AM Loetmichel: small series and such
09:47 AM robotustra: is windows make any sense on rugged notebook?
09:47 AM robotustra: as soon as windows is not a thing
09:47 AM robotustra: just a joke in the world of OS
09:49 AM roycroft: i run mac os on my desktop and laptop machines, since it's unix under the hood
09:49 AM roycroft: and i have vmware fusion, so i can run windows in a virtual machine when i need apps that run on windows only
09:50 AM robotustra: I do pretty the same, I use windows only if I forced to
09:53 AM robotustra: watched youtube on how people mount digital scale on axis Y of g0704 and I don't like them
09:53 AM robotustra: looks ugly, I decided to go my way
09:54 AM robotustra: need to mill some bar at angle
10:14 AM pink_vampire: robotustra: I also have G0704, how do you going to mount the dro on the Y axis?
10:15 AM robotustra: I'll make a pics as soon as I will progress
10:16 AM robotustra: do you have DRO istalled on your g0704?
10:17 AM pink_vampire: no, but it is a cnc
10:19 AM robotustra: ok, they why do you need DRO?
10:19 AM robotustra: or you just asking how I'll do it?
10:21 AM robotustra: I'm planning to attach the ruler itself to the base at the agle the base have and make a bracket to attach slide to a transition plate
10:48 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Yep, I did. thanks
10:49 AM jymmmm: skunkworks: https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
10:49 AM jymmmm: ve7it: Hey lawernce
10:51 AM unterhaus: anyone ever use a place like parts badger?
10:51 AM unterhaus: online prototype machine shop
11:01 AM Loetmichel: *hehe* just wired my wife the €680 for the two Kicstarter projects i backed recently with her Visa (i have no CC)... She: "why did you send me double what was drawn from the card?" "because there is one more project i backed that will be draw soon". "So what is it that you backed?" "A CR6 3dprinter and a Crowpi Notebook." "*sigh* Dont you have enough of both already? there are 4 printers
11:01 AM Loetmichel: here and about 11 notebooks!" :-)
11:06 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: lol
11:11 AM robotustra: I wander if HSS Co roughting mill good for aluminum
11:11 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: that's not the 200-in-one electronics kit we had as kids
11:12 AM Loetmichel: hmm?
11:12 AM Loetmichel: the crowpi?
11:12 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elecrow/crowpi2-steam-education-platformand-raspberry-pi-laptop
11:12 AM Loetmichel: i just like the idea
11:12 AM Loetmichel: to have a bit of tinkering stuff handy
11:13 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Yeah, it's just a LONG ways from the electronic kits of way back when
11:13 AM Loetmichel: useful to check some electronics ideas on the double
11:13 AM Loetmichel: indeed it is
11:14 AM jymmmm: $1300?!
11:14 AM robotustra: for a piece of plastic?
11:14 AM Loetmichel: i started with a "BUSCH Experimentier-System 7000 New Tech"
11:15 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: $1300? nah. more like $300 with the pi and all sensors
11:15 AM FinboySlick: jymmmm: They're just planning for inflation by the time it's released.
11:15 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: its HK$
11:15 AM Loetmichel: you have to convert to your currency ;)
11:16 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: A LOOOONG ways off... https://miro.medium.com/max/1200/1*q3HtP57wlUqY7wbGLkLofA.png
11:16 AM FinboySlick: I like the idea a lot too though.
11:17 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: that looks older than my set
11:17 AM Loetmichel: HOW old are you again?=
11:17 AM Loetmichel: :-)
11:17 AM jymmmm: 11
11:18 AM FinboySlick: "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever." -- Jimmy Urine
11:19 AM Loetmichel: hehe
11:27 AM jymmmm: Would adding diodes like this to non-isolated Switching PS in series work? https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_iPmd5d3sCi4/SmeEe8Ga-uI/AAAAAAAAAKc/QIuXCxFO4EU/s400/fig-jul09.gif
11:31 AM likevinyl is now known as Guest23310
11:45 AM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest16945
11:47 AM beachbumpete1: Hey guys... I remember awhile back there was discussion about an inexpensive oscilloscope that hooks to an ipad or cellphone or something, do you guys know anything about this? I have a friend here at work that needs one...
11:49 AM jymmmm: Rigol 1054Z
11:51 AM beachbumpete1: thanks man but that looks like an ACTUAL oscilloscope... this thing was portable etc. Ran off a cellphone or ipad etc.
11:52 AM robotustra: not sure if Hantek have such applications for oscilloscope
11:56 AM Tom_itx: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.xyz.scope&hl=en_US
11:58 AM Tom_itx: https://www.powerelectronics.com/technologies/power-electronics-systems/article/21861788/first-100mss-open-source-oscilloscope-for-ipad-android-and-pc
11:58 AM beachbumpete1: Thats pretty cool an audio only oscilloscope
11:58 AM Tom_itx: no clue
11:59 AM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
12:03 PM Tom_L: the rigol are pretty nice
12:28 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: Tom_L https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
12:42 PM roycroft: so yeah
12:42 PM roycroft: we're having one of our hottest days of the year again - ~37 today again
12:42 PM roycroft: i came down to do some work in our data center
12:43 PM roycroft: the redundant hvac unit has been down for weeks, and i've been bugging my boss to get things arranged with our new hvac service folks so they can check it out and repair it
12:43 PM roycroft: now the primary unit is failing
12:43 PM roycroft: lovely
12:43 PM roycroft: it's probably close to 30 degrees in the machine room right now
12:43 PM roycroft: and it will get up to 45-50 by late afternoon if we don't get it fixed
12:44 PM roycroft: at that temperature we will start losing equipment
12:44 PM roycroft: 45-50 degrees ambient is going to mean the hard drives will be pushing 100
12:45 PM roycroft: and i can guarantee they will fail
12:46 PM roycroft: i should note that our equipment room is on the second floor of an uninsulated building with a flat roof and no shade on the roof
12:46 PM roycroft: so joy
12:48 PM beachbumpete1: Thanks for the links guys. Still not seeing the one that was so popular here awhile back. I will keep searchin
12:49 PM roycroft: wow
12:50 PM roycroft: herman cain died from covid-19
12:50 PM roycroft: he was in hospital for over 2 weeks
12:53 PM robotustra: well
12:53 PM robotustra: 74 is a lot
12:53 PM roycroft: yes, he lived a longish life
12:53 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
12:53 PM roycroft: but it was still unnecessary for him to die from the virus
12:54 PM robotustra: and according to statistics black has chance to die from covid 2 times bigger than white
12:54 PM roycroft: it's sad when people put political ideology over health and the suffer like that
12:54 PM robotustra: I don't know why
12:54 PM roycroft: because of the conditions in which black people live
12:54 PM robotustra: possibly
12:54 PM roycroft: and their lack of access to the kind of health care that white people have
12:54 PM roycroft: no, not possibly
12:54 PM roycroft: that's what it is
12:55 PM roycroft: there have been numerous studies
12:55 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: he disagreed it was unnessasary for him to die of the virus.
12:55 PM robotustra: I guess so
12:55 PM SpeedEvil: We should respect that position.
12:55 PM roycroft: i disagree with cain on almost everything
12:55 PM roycroft: but it's still sad when someone passes like that, especially so unnecessarily
12:56 PM roycroft: this was not unexpected
12:56 PM SpeedEvil: Once you start risking other peoples lives with your actions, pretty much any right to thought to be a good person for those actions goes away.
12:56 PM roycroft: when i read yesterday that he was still in hospital i wondered if he would survive
12:57 PM roycroft: i'm not saying i think he was a good person
12:57 PM roycroft: i'm saying it's sad that he died unnecessarily
12:57 PM roycroft: it's sad when anyone does
12:57 PM unterhaus: I have see conflicting discussion of his background
12:57 PM roycroft: good person, bad person, or otherwise
12:58 PM unterhaus: some say he led and interesting life, some say he ran the worst pizza restaurant chain in history
12:58 PM unterhaus: I suppose those don't really conflict
12:58 PM SpeedEvil: If you are encouraging people to take risky actions, and your actions are directly leading to >1 death, then no, it's not sad.
12:58 PM roycroft: and right after someone passes is not an appropriate time to comment on the negative aspects of the person's life
12:58 PM roycroft: imo
01:00 PM * roycroft wishes the hvac people would call back or show up
01:01 PM unterhaus: In general, I think we have an unhealthy respect for the recently deceased when it comes to republican politicians
01:01 PM unterhaus: the week after Reagan died, there was non-stop praise and nobody was allowed to mention his flaws, which killed people
01:02 PM roycroft: i'm not praising cain
01:02 PM roycroft: and i did not praise reagan
01:02 PM unterhaus: in general, people will
01:02 PM roycroft: but i did not trash them right after they passed, either
01:02 PM unterhaus: I'm not holding back when GW Bush dies
01:02 PM roycroft: i waited a respectful amount of time
01:03 PM roycroft: the respect is for the sake of their families, not their legacy
01:03 PM unterhaus: the damage was done with Reagan. should have been street celebrations
01:03 PM roycroft: btw
01:03 PM unterhaus: Like with Margaret Thatcher
01:03 PM jymmmm: roycroft: hvac broken?
01:04 PM roycroft: the reagan foundation, which is run by his family, hae sued the trump campaign to try to stop them from using reagan's image in association with the campaign
01:04 PM roycroft: jymmmm: the redundant unit has been broken for weeks
01:04 PM roycroft: and our old hvac service company were non-responsive
01:04 PM roycroft: i've been bugging my boss for weeks to get things sorted out with the new one
01:04 PM roycroft: today the primary unit started failing
01:04 PM Rab: unterhaus, every president's flaws kill people. Celebration is appropriate when they leave office. But once they slip the surly bonds of Earth, it doesn't hurt anybody to wait a week.
01:04 PM roycroft: it's not totally failed yet, but it's not keeping jp at all
01:05 PM roycroft: it's 30 degrees outside already, and the forecast high is 37
01:05 PM roycroft: when it gets to 37 it will be 45-50 in the machine room if we don't get this fixed
01:05 PM roycroft: the new outfit aren't set up to deal with emergencies, and that's unfortunately
01:05 PM roycroft: unfortunate
01:06 PM roycroft: we may not be able to use them long-term
01:06 PM roycroft: but they have a tech in this town right now (i'm an hour outside of eugene at the moment)
01:06 PM Rab: Except when Dick Cheney's motor stops, I'm ready to party. But he's more machine now than man.
01:06 PM roycroft: and all i need is for that tech to swing by and inject some refrigerant in each unit, to get them going again
01:06 PM roycroft: hey
01:06 PM roycroft: cheney finally got a heart
01:06 PM roycroft: he's not using it properly
01:06 PM roycroft: but he got one a couple or three years ago
01:07 PM Rab: Uyghur?
01:08 PM jymmmm: roycroft: lovely... NOT!
01:08 PM roycroft: but what rab said, mostly
01:08 PM roycroft: excoriate them when they leave office
01:08 PM roycroft: and during their term in office
01:08 PM roycroft: but allow their families to grieve for a bit when they pass
01:08 PM roycroft: it's that golden rule thing
01:09 PM roycroft: do unto others as you would have them do unto you
01:09 PM unterhaus: Rab, needlessly killing people from HIV because most of them were gay is objectively evil.
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: he who has the gold makes the rules
01:10 PM * roycroft is a believer in the real golden rule
01:10 PM unterhaus: There should be limits as to what praise is allowed just like what bad things are allowed
01:10 PM Rab: unterhaus, I attribute so much villainy to Reagan that I'm glad you specified your complaint.
01:10 PM unterhaus: if people are going to lie for political advantage, push back should be allowed, but it's not
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: hitler, stalin, mao, all fair dancers
01:11 PM unterhaus: At least a "that's not true, Chet" occasionally
01:11 PM roycroft: that does not happen enough, but it does happen
01:12 PM roycroft: we have this warped sense of "fairness" in this country
01:12 PM roycroft: where we think people on both sides of an issue should have equal time to present their case, and everything they say should be judged with equal validity
01:12 PM roycroft: if one side is 90% wrong and we call them out for being 90% wrong we're being "biased"
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: "You should never say bad things about the dead, only good… Joan Crawford is dead. Good.”
01:13 PM unterhaus: haha
01:13 PM roycroft: that cretin peter navarro was on the pbs news hour a couple weeks ago
01:13 PM roycroft: he was spewing lie after lie after lie
01:13 PM roycroft: non-stop
01:13 PM roycroft: judy woodward just sat there and listened
01:13 PM unterhaus: I'm sorry Herman Cain was killed by his politics
01:13 PM roycroft: she did not push back at all
01:13 PM roycroft: it would not be "unfair" or "biased" to call him out on his lies
01:14 PM unterhaus: Kinda wish it was Rand Paul, but evil and stupidity seems to kill the virus
01:14 PM unterhaus: media is so lazy and afraid of republicans now
01:15 PM roycroft: navarro is one of the people who is pushing the outrageous lie that dr. fauci created the novel corona virus and sent it to the chinese
01:15 PM roycroft: and he said that on national television and was not called out on it
01:16 PM unterhaus: sometimes they seem to think something that obviously untrue doesn't need to be countered at all
01:16 PM roycroft: it's not biased for a reporter to say "that's not true" when an interviewee says something that is demonstrably untrue
01:16 PM unterhaus: or that it's the responsibility of someone else to counter it
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: that's what late night talk show monologues are for
01:16 PM roycroft: anyway, it's getting warmer
01:16 PM roycroft: and warme
01:16 PM unterhaus: that happened recently, i think on cnn. Everyone was shocked
01:17 PM roycroft: and i cannot leave
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: high of only 71F early next week
01:17 PM roycroft: it is warmer in the machine room that it is outside
01:17 PM unterhaus: "cops for trump" rally in Pennsylvania features about 25% mask wearing, no social distancing
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: balancing out for the warm early smmer
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus: that problem is solving itself
01:18 PM unterhaus: near Pittsuburg, so somebody has it
01:18 PM unterhaus: pittsburgh
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: they were warned
01:19 PM unterhaus: so much misinformation spreading through crowds like that, I would say they weren't properly warned because they watch Fox
01:19 PM unterhaus: Fox has killed more people
01:19 PM roycroft: this delaying the election thing is going over like a lead balloon
01:19 PM CaptHindsight: too many outside sources
01:20 PM roycroft: people on both the right and the left are outraged that the president suggested it
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: but not surprising
01:20 PM unterhaus: roycroft, he does that to distract
01:20 PM roycroft: i was waiting for him to suggest it
01:20 PM roycroft: yes, in large part he does
01:20 PM unterhaus: he doesn't care how outrageous something is
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: delay of election or what do do when he refuses to leave after losing
01:20 PM unterhaus: he likes the attention
01:20 PM roycroft: he also likes to float outrageous things to see if any of them "stick"
01:21 PM unterhaus: refusing to leave would be pure comedy
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: it's all negative attention
01:21 PM unterhaus: but we are going to be robbed of that, he's going to be playing golf in Florida that day
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: we used to ignore children like this
01:21 PM unterhaus: it's going to have to get worse to get attention
01:21 PM unterhaus: I suggest he have Kushner arrested
01:22 PM roycroft: the only reason he'll be in florida that day is because there will be a warrant for his arrest in the state of new york
01:22 PM unterhaus: they can issue a warrant any time
01:22 PM roycroft: he may actually be in moscow that day
01:22 PM CaptHindsight: sadly I doubt much will happen in the arrest department
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: we tend to let presidents slide
01:23 PM unterhaus: I am convinced that someone is going to jail kushner
01:23 PM roycroft: yes, we do
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: Bush as a recent example
01:23 PM roycroft: i'm not sure we will this time though
01:23 PM roycroft: but we're getting ahead of ourselves here
01:23 PM roycroft: trump could win in november
01:23 PM unterhaus: the fraud the trump foundation performed would have led to jail time for anyone else other than the president's kids
01:24 PM roycroft: what i'd like to see is a federal law resetting the statute of limitations clock to the day that a president leaves office
01:24 PM unterhaus: one thing that nobody talks about is that nobody expects a popular vote win
01:24 PM roycroft: no, not at all
01:24 PM roycroft: biden will win the popular vote - that's almost a certainty
01:24 PM unterhaus: extremely unlikely that he will win the popular vote
01:24 PM roycroft: but he may lose the electoral college vote
01:25 PM roycroft: they both may, actually
01:25 PM roycroft: here's a scenario that may play out:
01:25 PM unterhaus: it's looking very unlikely, that's one reason he wants to delay the election
01:25 PM roycroft: the election is close electorally
01:25 PM roycroft: after election night neither candidate will have 270 electoral votes
01:25 PM roycroft: several states are contested
01:26 PM roycroft: if trump challenges them and delays things long enough those states may not be able to send electors to vote
01:26 PM roycroft: in which case neither candidate will get the required 270 votes
01:26 PM roycroft: OR
01:26 PM unterhaus: democrats could tilt the electoral college by majority vote if they win the senate
01:26 PM roycroft: the senate may refuse to certify the votes of the contested states
01:26 PM roycroft: no
01:26 PM roycroft: because the electoral college vote takes place before the new congress is seated
01:26 PM unterhaus: after this election
01:26 PM roycroft: it would all be done during the lame duck session
01:26 PM roycroft: anyway
01:27 PM roycroft: should neither candidate make it to 270, the election is decided by the house
01:27 PM unterhaus: yeah, it could get ugly if it's not a resounding win
01:27 PM roycroft: and while the house democrats have a big majority, that's not how it works there
01:27 PM roycroft: each state gets one vote
01:27 PM roycroft: and there are more red states than blue states as far as house representation
01:28 PM roycroft: i.e. more states have a majority of republicans than democrats in their caucus
01:28 PM roycroft: so if neither candidate gets to 270, trump likely wins
01:28 PM unterhaus: at the Pence rally, they are making announcements begging people to put on masks
01:29 PM roycroft: and pence just met with the group of anti-masker doctors
01:29 PM unterhaus: Barr was hanging out with Ghomert
01:29 PM roycroft: which includes that woman who claims that the blood of extraterrestrials is used to manufacture drugs
01:29 PM unterhaus: and Louie lives in his office
01:30 PM roycroft: the speaker of the house yesterday mandated the wearing of masks at all times on the entire house side of the capitol building, and in all house office buildings as well
01:30 PM unterhaus: Gohmert told his staff he had the virus in person. They haven't been allowed to wear masks
01:31 PM roycroft: and she said that refusal to wear one would constitute a "breach of decorum", and the person would be removed from the premises
01:31 PM roycroft: so louie and his staff will be wearing masks from now on in their offices
01:31 PM roycroft: or they won't be in their offices
01:31 PM unterhaus: he shouldn't be in his office
01:31 PM roycroft: he should be in texas, at home, away from other people
01:31 PM unterhaus: everyone near his hvac return is in danger
01:31 PM roycroft: for the next two weeks, at least
01:33 PM unterhaus: I was really surprised when I found out the Republicans in PA passed vote by mail
01:34 PM unterhaus: but it usually is in their favor. Trump is changing that :)
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: it's too bad nobody can figure out how to vote and have a paper trail
01:34 PM unterhaus: Of course, my wife spoiled her ballot
01:34 PM CaptHindsight: it's just too hard :)
01:35 PM unterhaus: vote by mail is a paper trail
01:35 PM unterhaus: but our in person ballots are scanned and kept
01:37 PM unterhaus: at least our republican senator seems to be pro-mask
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: I thought that the electoral college was suppose to prevent someone like Trump from actually becoming president
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: much seems to be broken
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: to protect the election process from cabal, corruption, intrigue, and faction.
01:40 PM CaptHindsight: defined a faction as "a number of citizens whether amounting to a majority or minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community."
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._10
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: heh, how often are any federalist papers referred to anymore?
01:45 PM beachbumpete1: I gotta tell ya I came here years ago to learn about CNC control, electronics, machining, etc etc. This place has been wonderful and helpful for that. Unfortunately most of the discussion in here stems around a decidely liberal view of the world. I honestly do not come here much anymore to avoid having to read all of it while trying to read between the BS for tidbits of knowledge and interesting items. This to me is sad
01:45 PM beachbumpete1: because I truly enjoy and learn a lot in here.
01:46 PM CaptHindsight: civil discussions
01:47 PM Rab: beachbumpete1, thanks for speaking up.
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: try ##electronics for counter examples
01:50 PM unterhaus: apparently the electoral college was an afterthought
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: heard back from the tree seeding people, germinated seed covered in dirt and fertilizer shot from paint ball on drone
01:51 PM unterhaus: what happens in electronics? bitter ankle-biting?
01:51 PM roycroft: because talking about being considerate to others is "liberal"?
01:52 PM unterhaus: roycroft, you know anything about euro hinges?
01:52 PM roycroft: i appreciate your position on not wanting things to become political here
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: yo mama, naughty bits, etc get woven into all discussions
01:52 PM roycroft: and i try not to be
01:52 PM roycroft: i slip sometimes
01:52 PM roycroft: but just tell me to shut up when i do
01:52 PM roycroft: i won't take offense :)
01:52 PM roycroft: what about euro hinges?
01:53 PM unterhaus: do you know which ones I should use for full overlay doors on frameless cabinets?
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: nah unless you're in a clockwork orange chair, you just skip over the conversation
01:53 PM roycroft: you want the ones that open to 115 degrees
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: it's not like it's a sin and your eyes will fall out
01:54 PM * Tom_L skips over the last 2k of scrollback
01:54 PM roycroft: i actually try really hard to stick to discussing facts
01:54 PM unterhaus: I moderate on a bike forum and I hate to see politics there
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: see even Tom can do it :)
01:54 PM Tom_L: a sign you're missing #electronics too much
01:54 PM roycroft: but facts allegedly have a liberal bias, so sticking to facts can be seen as a liberal position
01:54 PM roycroft: anyway
01:55 PM roycroft: full overlay doors need to open a bit more than 90 degrees to have full access to the interior
01:55 PM roycroft: that's why 115 degree hinges are made for them
01:55 PM roycroft: as far as specific brands, i don't have any recommendations
01:56 PM roycroft: just get hinges that are adjustable in all 3 planes, or your life will not be a pleasant one
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: we could change the format, all tech discussion require both facts and made up bubble stuff, just to be fair
01:56 PM roycroft: you mean facts and alternative facts?
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: you decide which is which
01:56 PM roycroft: the truthiness is strong in this one
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: to be fair :)
01:56 PM Tom_L: say it long enough and loud enough and it is a fact
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: jah vol
01:57 PM roycroft: it's getting really hot in here
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: yahwol, can't speel in german even though it's easier
01:57 PM Tom_L: stop breathing so hard
01:58 PM Rab: unterhaus, Blum is the big brand I know of. Supposedly the OEM for Ikea cabinet hinges.
01:58 PM Tom_L: facts are subject to change in lieu of new facts
01:59 PM unterhaus: blum is good, they have exactly 57 different hinges
01:59 PM unterhaus: and their website is mind-numbing
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: speaking of hinges, who has stainless small hinges in stock? like ...
02:00 PM unterhaus: mcmaster
02:02 PM roycroft: that's something a lot of folks don't understand, tom_l
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: yeah piano hinges
02:02 PM roycroft: it actually is the casue of a lot of the mistrust in science
02:02 PM CaptHindsight: have to refab a fuel door/lid
02:02 PM roycroft: we keep learning new things and understanding things better
02:02 PM roycroft: that does not mean that everything we knew or thought we knew in the past was wrong
02:02 PM Tom_L: if that's true why does history repeat?
02:03 PM roycroft: most of the time science does not totally disprove previous postulates
02:03 PM roycroft: more often, it narrows the scope of them
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: short attention spans
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: well trained consumers
02:03 PM roycroft: history repeats because most people are not students of history
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: consumers/students
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: SS piano hinge, $5/ft, shipping $20
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: 2 hour round trip
02:05 PM Tom_L: have them truck it instead of ship
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: i was by there a week ago
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: forgot
02:06 PM unterhaus: mcmaster isn't as good of a deal any more since their shipping has gone through the roof
02:06 PM Tom_L: you should have needed it then
02:06 PM unterhaus: and they aren't careful to ship one package
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: heh I did, I just forgot
02:06 PM Tom_L: shipping in general has
02:07 PM unterhaus: I notice it more since they used to be so cheap. They are still fast, at least
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, all the international air freight is up >10%
02:07 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, https://www.grainger.com/category/hardware/door-hardware/hinges/piano-hinges?attrs=Material%7CStainless+Steel&filters=attrs
02:07 PM unterhaus: mcmaster is up 100% in the last couple of years
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: but only 3 weeks from China via SpeedPAK
02:07 PM unterhaus: roycroft any suggestion about sources
02:07 PM Rab: Probably nothing in stock locally, but they will do free ship-to-store.
02:08 PM unterhaus: for euro hinges?
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: I need 3"
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: fuel door on a car
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: vs $70 for a new door
02:13 PM Tom_L: print one
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: living hinge
02:15 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/stainless-steel-hinges/s?k=stainless+steel+hinges
02:15 PM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Continuous-Unfinished-Thickness-Diameter/dp/B005J0JSOK/ref=sr_1_33?dchild=1&keywords=stainless+steel+hinges&qid=1596136470&sr=8-33
02:16 PM Tom_L: there's your piano hinge
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: it's actually a good test for CF
02:17 PM unterhaus: flexure
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: door and hinge
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: $500 fuel door project
02:19 PM unterhaus: duct tape
02:19 PM unterhaus: better, gorilla repair tape, couldn't see it
02:19 PM Tom_L: put the concept on the interweb and by next week you can order one from china for $5
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: flexible, serviceable and not arrogant or liberal
02:20 PM unterhaus: I need 4 hinges, can get 8 for $5 more
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: would have to be concept and some basic working plans
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: automation supply malls are great there
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: cheap knockoffs of the components you see in machines here
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: they work, just not for as long
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: like our old electronic surplus stores
02:25 PM Loetmichel: maan, sometimes i envy the americans for the lack of "TÜV"... searching for H7 LED replacement headlights (highbeams) with an E-number aka allowed to use in germany for 2/4 of a day now... :-(
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: enforcement here seems to be spotty
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: we had underbody neon light for a while, then they cracked down on those
02:27 PM Loetmichel: my BMW convertible developed a "flickering eye" lately and i checked today: its because the previous owner put in LED replacement bulbs into the headlights (oh, not high beam, the other one) of which one has probably overheatet and shot some bonding wires... the fan on the back sounds like a sack of bolts shaken vigerously when running ;)
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: don't see many bright as sun flood lights left on while driving on roads anymore
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: i had to make a pair of pencil beam driving lights
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: found some 75mm dia versions of this https://www.ebay.com/itm/Convex-Lens-Diameter-16mm-Focal-Length-28mm-K9-Optical-Glass-Magnifier/143375151196
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: if you are still looking for pencil beam spot LED driving lights, just add these https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-100W-LED-convex-lens-optical-glass-condenser-Reflector-Collimator-78mm/261598160131
02:33 PM Rab: Loetmichel, there's a fan on the back of the headlight? Like a CPU fan?
02:34 PM Loetmichel: Rab: yes
02:35 PM Rab: As the kids say: ratchet
02:35 PM Loetmichel: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HwUAAOSw~X1dw8XK/s-l1600.jpg
02:36 PM Loetmichel: like these but different colour anodized
02:36 PM Rab: haha
02:36 PM Loetmichel: previous owner replaced the original halogen bulbs
02:36 PM Loetmichel: with NOT apprived LED replacements of course ;)
02:37 PM Loetmichel: approved
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: Amamzon Get it by Tomorrow, Aug 4
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: is it already Monday at Amazon?
02:49 PM roycroft: allegedly our old hvac company - the old old one from whome we bought the units - are going to send someone over soon to get a band-aid
02:56 PM jymmmm: hey miss0r
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: i can drive local to get kevlar fabric but no CF nearby
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: isn't that at quilting stores by now?
02:58 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: planning on getting shot/stabbed by chance?
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: well the older crafts women out this a ways are pretty tough
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: not a manly pass time
03:00 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Hint: kevlar aint gonna save you if you've pissed one of em off, youve pissed ALL of them off
03:01 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: CF wouldnt help with bullets or knives though
03:01 PM jymmmm: cf?
03:01 PM Loetmichel: carbon fibre
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: i just go for the judgemental looks
03:01 PM jymmmm: oh, I wouldn't even consider CF for that
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: yeah bullet proof fuel door
03:02 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: But those looks cut like a knife
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: hah
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: I spent my childhood wandering haunted caves, so I'm immune
03:06 PM jymmmm: Ugh, my eyes are killing me going thru all these traces
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: the bottom is pretty ugly
03:12 PM jymmmm: I pinned out the uC yesterday, Pin 4 changes as input voltage changes. I think I found one have of the divider circuit, but finding the path(s) to the other half are the problem
03:14 PM jymmmm: https://i.imgur.com/w7KhdIy.jpg
03:18 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: See, this is weird; IF I measure from +12 to pin 4, it starts out at 4K and if I leave it there for a couple of minutes it jumps up to 20K. NEG to pin 4 I get 4K.
03:18 PM jymmmm: ...without any changes at all.
03:19 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: and it doens't matte the olarity of the probes, always rises.
03:19 PM jymmmm: polarity*
03:21 PM jymmmm: Now I'm getting 900K between + and p4, argh
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: caps will do that
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: use clips if you can vs holding them
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: if you draw out the circuit you'll see why it acts that way
03:25 PM jymmmm: oh I get it, it's just not helping
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: I'm not a fan of Husker Du
03:26 PM jymmmm: and I'm not sure why a cap would be in a voltage divider circuit
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: low pass filter
03:27 PM jymmmm: In a votlage sense circuit?
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: slows the response time down
03:28 PM jymmmm: hmmm,ok
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: if it's a high value cap, I'd look elsewhere on that board for the divider
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: my laser got here! my laser got here!
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: cam with tiny collimator assembly that has a tiny stepper motor to drive it
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: 8mm dia stepper
03:41 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: pics or it never happened
03:45 PM robotustra: https://i.imgur.com/l9HyWRh.jpg
03:46 PM robotustra: just drill holes and ready to mount
04:06 PM roycroft: life is slightly less horrible
04:06 PM roycroft: the hvac folks are another hour away
04:07 PM roycroft: so i was able to leave briefly and grab a phone charger and a big cold beverage
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: https://imgur.com/a/5ijq7LU the stepper is behind the opening in the bottom
04:10 PM robotustra: what is this?
04:11 PM Tom_L: laser diode?
04:12 PM Tom_L: nuclear weapon's guidance system?
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: laser with collimating lens assembly with tiny stepper motor
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: the gears are maybe 3mm dia
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: rack and pinion
04:27 PM roycroft: i'm trying to hold out a little longer, but i may have to start shutting equipment down soon
04:28 PM XXCoder: whats wrong
04:28 PM roycroft: both hvac units are malfunctioning
04:28 PM roycroft: the redundant one has been broken for weeks and my boss was not interested in fixing it
04:28 PM roycroft: the primary one is low on refrigerant and barely cooling
04:29 PM XXCoder: ahh too hot to work?
04:29 PM roycroft: it's close to 40 degrees in this data center
04:29 PM XXCoder: server room?
04:29 PM roycroft: yes
04:29 PM SpeedEvil: roycroft: Did he say 'that's why we have redundancy' when you asked about fixing the first one to break?
04:29 PM roycroft: allegedly the hvac folks will be here in a half hour
04:29 PM XXCoder: yeah why did boss just ignore it? jeez
04:29 PM roycroft: he just did not get around to it
04:29 PM roycroft: and unfortunately i needed his help
04:30 PM roycroft: we're changing hvac service companies
04:30 PM roycroft: otherwise i'd just have arranged for the repair myself
04:30 PM roycroft: but he has to get the agreement in place with the new outfit
04:30 PM roycroft: actually it's kind of good that this happened
04:30 PM roycroft: i called the new folks today and told them it was an emergency
04:30 PM roycroft: they said they were booked and would be able to get to it next week
04:31 PM XXCoder: things often break at worse times due to increased stress. not surpised it broke during hot time
04:31 PM roycroft: well it broke because 1. it is hot, and 2. it is trying to do the work of 2 units
04:31 PM roycroft: the redundant one is not a backup
04:31 PM roycroft: they are supposed to both work together
04:32 PM XXCoder: doubled work indeed
04:32 PM roycroft: if one fails and the other one is in good shape it can keep up until the failed one is repaired
04:32 PM roycroft: but only for so long
04:32 PM roycroft: as in a day or two
04:32 PM roycroft: not a couple weeks
04:32 PM roycroft: and people who have not been here have no concept of how hot it gets when the hvac is down
04:33 PM XXCoder: yeah servers make a lot of heat
04:33 PM roycroft: i've been here in the cold of winter when the hvac failed and it got up to 45 degrees in a matter of just a few hours
04:33 PM roycroft: today, fortunately, the one unit is still blowing coolish air
04:33 PM XXCoder: lol gonna love f vs c
04:33 PM roycroft: but not cold
04:33 PM roycroft: it's helping but it's not keeping up
04:33 PM roycroft: the temperature is slowly creeping up
04:34 PM roycroft: so when the guy gets here i hope he's going to be able to add some refrigerant to one of the units very quickly
04:34 PM roycroft: if he shows up in a half hour it's still going to take 20 minutes or so to get one of them working
04:34 PM roycroft: and i can't hold out any longer than that
04:34 PM Tom_L: cncs make alot of heat too
04:36 PM roycroft: he just called
04:36 PM roycroft: he's 10 minutes away
04:36 PM roycroft: i think we might survive this
04:37 PM Tom_L: so that's 20-30
04:37 PM Tom_L: i have no patience for ppl that say they'll be somewhere at a time and aren't
04:38 PM roycroft: he'll probably actually be here in 10 minutes
04:38 PM roycroft: this is a small, rural town
04:38 PM roycroft: so no traffic to contend with
04:38 PM roycroft: and he's driving, not sitting around
04:39 PM roycroft: but even if it's 20-30 that's fine - they told me earlier 3pm, and it's 2:39 now
04:39 PM roycroft: so 20-30 is right in that time frame
04:39 PM Rab: If it's a datacenter, there's an opportunity to lose a whole lot more money than would have been saved by ignoring the backup unit.
04:39 PM roycroft: yes, absolutely
04:40 PM roycroft: as i said a short while ago, i'm ready to start shutting tings down
04:40 PM roycroft: things
04:40 PM roycroft: the difference being if i shut everything down before it dies, when the business fails because of the outage there will at least be some assets to sell
04:40 PM roycroft: whereas if i don't shut down, the business fails and we have no assets to sell
04:41 PM roycroft: but getting the hvac fixed before i have to shut down is much better than either of those alternatives
04:41 PM XXCoder: no off-site server center ready to take over?
04:41 PM roycroft: i have offsite backups
04:41 PM roycroft: and offsite dns and radius
04:41 PM roycroft: but not offsite web/mail servers to fail over to
04:41 PM roycroft: although we do use a third-party anti-spam service for the mail customers
04:42 PM roycroft: and they can go to the spam service website to check new mail during an outage
04:42 PM roycroft: but they can't access anything that's been delivered from there - only what is spooled
04:42 PM roycroft: we would not go out of business if there's a brief outage
04:42 PM roycroft: i.e. if i shut everything down now and had it all back up by morning we'd be ok
04:43 PM roycroft: but if the hvac folks did not show up until next week and i was down all that time that would be the end
04:43 PM XXCoder: you have 9s uptime requirement in contract?
04:43 PM roycroft: i'm supposed to be working on my new hand tool workbench after work today, but i won't be home until late
04:44 PM roycroft: no, but most of our customers are month-to-month
04:44 PM roycroft: oh, with the hvac folks you mean?
04:44 PM XXCoder: no, server uptimes. thats good
04:44 PM roycroft: we're dumping our "current" hvac service folks, because they are non-responsive
04:44 PM roycroft: we had already decided that before this incident
04:44 PM XXCoder: it can cost a LOT to go past few minutes downtime if you have large enough number of 9s
04:45 PM roycroft: yeah
04:45 PM roycroft: and we have customers who expect 5 nines uptime but aren't willing to pay for it
04:45 PM roycroft: "but i can host a website at wix for free ..."
04:45 PM roycroft: who won't guarantee 5 nines
04:45 PM roycroft: and won't let you take your website with you when you leave
04:45 PM XXCoder: lol thats expensive yeah 5 9s you want entire off-site backup server center with 2 power backups each center
04:46 PM roycroft: and make it all but impossible to transfer your domain away when you leave
04:46 PM Tom_L: https://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/MyCal-Lite-Series-700-Digital-for-DIY-C1386.aspx
04:46 PM roycroft: i have dns servers in 3 timezones and 2 countries
04:46 PM roycroft: a website can go down for a bit
04:46 PM roycroft: mail can be spooled for a bit
04:46 PM roycroft: but if you have no dns you no longer exist
04:46 PM roycroft: you're not unreachable
04:46 PM roycroft: you don't exist
04:47 PM XXCoder: indeed
04:47 PM roycroft: i'm *very* good at ensuring that dns always works
04:47 PM roycroft: here he is!
04:47 PM XXCoder: yay cool time soon
04:47 PM XXCoder: hopefully its minor issues not "i need to replace both"
04:48 PM XXCoder: and "its backordered 4 weeks"
04:48 PM Tom_L: found my blue calipers :)
04:48 PM XXCoder: back in a while
04:58 PM JT-Shop: crap ran out of inputs and just placed an order with AD
05:01 PM roycroft: he's already found one problem
05:02 PM roycroft: a drain pump is clogged
05:10 PM roycroft: he's not sure that the unit that is semi-functioning is actually low on refrigerant
05:10 PM roycroft: this is starting to take longer than i'm sure i can handle
05:11 PM roycroft: i think it's time to formulate a plan for phased shutdowns of equipment
05:11 PM roycroft: i should query some hard drives first so know how much more time i actually have
05:13 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: what size are these units?
05:15 PM roycroft: holy shit
05:15 PM roycroft: 194 Temperature_Celsius -O---K 114
05:15 PM CaptHindsight: drive temps?
05:15 PM roycroft: that's just one random hard drive, in a large enclosure at the bottom of a rack
05:16 PM roycroft: the ones in the small enclosures at the top are going to be a lot hotter
05:16 PM roycroft: yes
05:16 PM roycroft: 114c on that one drive
05:16 PM roycroft: that's *way* too hot
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: C yeah
05:16 PM roycroft: 65 is as hot as a hard drive should get
05:17 PM CaptHindsight: 60-70C over ambient should not be the case
05:18 PM roycroft: Min/Max recommended Temperature: 0/65 Celsius
05:18 PM roycroft: Min/Max Temperature Limit: -41/85 Celsius
05:18 PM roycroft: that's what the manufacturer recommends for that drive
05:19 PM roycroft: i'm well past the limit
05:19 PM Tom_L: better order some spare parts
05:19 PM CaptHindsight: don't know how it's all set up but i aim for 20C max over ambient
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: I'd have 5ft fans running all over by now
05:20 PM CaptHindsight: wind tunnel server room
05:21 PM Tom_L: surprised they don't have high temp warnings
05:31 PM CaptHindsight: surprised they are still running at over 100C
05:38 PM roycroft: i have a big fan, but the problem is there's not a good place to run the air
05:39 PM roycroft: i am surprised too that they are still running
05:39 PM roycroft: but that drive is 108 now
05:39 PM roycroft: so things are improving
05:39 PM roycroft: and the guy is charging the second unit with refrigerant
05:40 PM roycroft: as soon as that gets going i expect the temperature in the room to drop down to 20 fairly quickly
05:40 PM roycroft: fortunately my data are all stored on a nas that is in raid 10 configuration, and that nas replicates in real time to another nas in the same room
05:41 PM roycroft: plus everything is backed up offsite every night
05:41 PM roycroft: and i have a couple spare drives, so when they start failing i should be able to recover before things turn catastrophic
05:45 PM roycroft: and yeah, it's 37 degrees outside right now
05:45 PM roycroft: still another hour of warming, so we might reach 38
05:55 PM jymmmm: ice chest full of ice and a fan
05:55 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, ice cures all ehh?
05:56 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Eh, it's cheap quick and easy
05:57 PM jymmmm: OR... a plastic trash can full of ice and a fan
05:57 PM Tom_L: so is the neighbor
05:57 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: no comment
06:00 PM roycroft: well if the outside temperature is still going up, and the inside temperature is starting to go down, the hvac guy did something good
06:01 PM Tom_L: good the A coils weren't froze up or it would take alot longer
06:13 PM roycroft: it's still bloody hot in here
06:17 PM jdh: have you tried turning on the A/C?
06:23 PM roycroft: they're trying to see if someone can bring down a portable unit
07:13 PM roycroft: the second unit is not working and they don't know why, but a portable ac is due to arrive any minute
07:13 PM * roycroft is pretty tired of this problem
07:14 PM roycroft: it doesn't help that i've been at work for 12 hours now, and have not had time to eat anything all day
07:15 PM XXCoder: ouch
07:15 PM CaptHindsight: days like today build character
07:15 PM XXCoder: uber eats?
07:15 PM XXCoder: or vend meal
07:15 PM roycroft: there's nothing like that in this town
07:15 PM CaptHindsight: sleep, water and food are highly over rated
07:15 PM roycroft: i'm actually not complaining about not eating
07:16 PM roycroft: it's making me feel weird
07:16 PM roycroft: but i had dinner out with some friends last night and i ate too much
07:16 PM roycroft: so this kind of balances that a wee bit
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: I ordered spare AC parts earlier this summer
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: the tend to act up late Friday before a hot weekend
07:20 PM robotustra: https://imgur.com/MmCFtYW
07:20 PM robotustra: enough for today
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: and UPS still managed to delay them an extra few days
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: robotustra: all working?
07:22 PM robotustra: the DRO itself works
07:22 PM robotustra: I tested yesterday, today I made a bracket
07:22 PM robotustra: and mounted it
07:23 PM robotustra: tomottow will drill 2 holes to mount the rule itself
07:23 PM robotustra: but it gereral the spacing now is ok
07:24 PM robotustra: https://i.imgur.com/WaOhVdv.jpg
07:24 PM robotustra: https://i.imgur.com/tTj7Yrk.jpg
07:25 PM robotustra: just need to put some shims under the ruller and bolt it
07:25 PM robotustra: hope with X axis it will be easier
07:25 PM robotustra: because it's in front
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: i have at least 50 pairs of older glass scales
07:35 PM CaptHindsight: mostly 1v p-p and current ouput, i need to make a bunch of sin/cos to quadrature adapters and use them up
07:38 PM SpeedEvil: With microstepping?
07:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.dynomotion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1045 these are on ebay for $110
07:39 PM CaptHindsight: 220, 221 whatever it takes
07:40 PM robotustra: what is this interpolator used for?
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: converting the scales like I have to quadrature pulses
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: http://openservodrive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/sincos_encoder_signals.png
07:42 PM SpeedEvil: yeah - microstepping I was meaning you'd multiply the resolution by lots by properly quantising rather than just treating as 0/1
07:43 PM CaptHindsight: i don't think Mesa has one
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: these are mostly 1 and 0.5um scales, signal period is 20um
07:47 PM CaptHindsight: so if you sample high enough even better than the 500nm
07:48 PM CaptHindsight: accuracy spec on the glass is +-1-3um based on model
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: any idea who has the best current interface IC vs cost?
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: I'm using AMS for magnetic encoders
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ichaus.de/ or TI or?
07:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ichaus.de/LGC
07:57 PM robotustra: you are talking about things I can guess only
07:57 PM robotustra: I don't know where such encoders are used in real life
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: i use them on mills, lathes, 3d printers, inkjets etc
07:58 PM SpeedEvil: I was assuming rather more DIY
07:58 PM robotustra: but in which part of the cirquit?
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: robotustra: your read head on your scale outputs incremental quad at rs422 likely
07:59 PM robotustra: I got this part, but where the quadrature output goes?
07:59 PM robotustra: to which device?
07:59 PM CaptHindsight: the glass scales i have, the read heads only output analog 1V pp or 20ma
08:00 PM robotustra: it's clear
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: so I have to convert that analog signal to incremental
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: to plug into a Mesa card like the 7i77
08:00 PM robotustra: it's also clear
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: that is all
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: the converters tend to be $100's
08:01 PM robotustra: where do you use this output analog signal?
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: older machines tended to have servo boards with analog inputs
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: vs incremental quad rs422
08:02 PM robotustra: servo had analog input?
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ichaus.de/product/iC-PI
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: robotustra: yes
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: servo amps also tended to be +-5V analog in vs Step and Dir
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: or some fancy industrial talk over ethernet
08:05 PM robotustra: now it's clear where it can be used
08:05 PM robotustra: I know only step/dir servos
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: for example http://www.parkermotion.com/products/Servo_Drives__5335__30_32_80_567_29.html
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.parker.com/parkerimages/emn/Gemini_GV_Quick_Reference.pdf
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: +- 10V command analog in signal
08:10 PM robotustra: what is the advantage of such servos vs step/dir servo?
08:11 PM CaptHindsight: just older is all
08:11 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-200-Watt-Sherline-or-Taig-Lathe-Mill-Brushless-Spindle-Motor-Upgrade-220v/233147502177?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225086%26meid%3D755518fc7b4c4ddfb77e2453112b501a%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D233234054234%26itm%3D233147502177%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2334524&_trksid=p2334524.c100667.m2042
08:11 PM Tom_L: i wish i knew where they were sourcing those from
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: ^^ analog control for direction and speed but incremental encoder inputs, even older drives had analog encoder inputs
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: many of the signals were analog so more prone to noise
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: 1,200 Watt so likely closer to 600 continuous
08:13 PM Tom_L: supposedly theyre industrial rated at 1200
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: try searching by image on ali
08:14 PM Tom_L: not sure what to look for
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: taiwan listing https://goods.pchomeus.com/item/show?30202589166596
08:16 PM unterhaus_: I think I prefer analog control to step/dir
08:17 PM Tom_L: that's the smaller one
08:17 PM Tom_L: 120v
08:18 PM unterhaus_: that's a lot of power on a taig
08:18 PM CaptHindsight: yeah trying to find the source
08:18 PM Tom_L: 750w?
08:18 PM unterhaus_: what do they come with?
08:18 PM Tom_L: ?
08:19 PM unterhaus_: how much power is the spindle motor on a sherline/taig
08:19 PM Tom_L: probably about 600w
08:19 PM Tom_L: it's a 90v dc motor
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: trying to find the Chinese source based on clues in adds and reverse image searches
08:19 PM Tom_L: but no low end torque
08:20 PM unterhaus_: brushless spindle motor would be a nice upgrade
08:20 PM Tom_L: certainly would
08:20 PM Tom_L: i've been eyeballing those for quite a while
08:20 PM unterhaus_: is there a small lathe that will clear 1" inside the spindle?
08:20 PM Tom_L: but would like to find the source instead
08:20 PM Tom_L: dunno
08:21 PM Tom_L: mine isn't even 1"
08:21 PM unterhaus_: do you have a taig?
08:21 PM Tom_L: and it's an old craftsman atlas
08:21 PM unterhaus_: being able to clear 2.5" on my lathe has spoiled me
08:21 PM unterhaus_: but I have a part I want to make many of where I want a cnc lathe
08:22 PM unterhaus_: and it only needs 1"
08:22 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Z_Axis_Pulley.jpg
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/hot-selling-low-speed-spindle-motor_60730488728.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.57d47a6cFWJWD5
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: $300 for a bigger one
08:23 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: I kinda crindged at that pic of yours
08:23 PM Rab: Tom_L, this seems to match the distinctive extrusion, without the plastic end cap: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32819967452.html
08:24 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: all that swarf and that outlet right there
08:24 PM Rab: Another one: https://www.yoycart.com/Product/562798685086/
08:24 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, yeah i didn't do that
08:24 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: ah ok
08:24 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: that looks closer to the 750w i found, i think tom really want 1200W
08:24 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Would you mind slapping the person that did for me?
08:24 PM Tom_L: and a little higher rpm
08:25 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, i'm kinda guessing but if i currently have 600w, 750 doesn't seem like much of an upgrade
08:25 PM Tom_L: unless bldc act different than dc
08:27 PM Tom_L: they're advertising 5600 rpm
08:28 PM Tom_L: which would be ideal for me
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/high-torque-bldc-motor-1200-watt_1600052781935.html?spm=a2700.7724857.normalList.49.49803ddfSvmgv3
08:28 PM CaptHindsight: oh slower I misscounted 0's
08:29 PM Tom_L: slow
08:29 PM Tom_L: :)
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: what rpm min do you wish?
08:30 PM CaptHindsight: 6K?
08:30 PM Tom_L: 6k ish
08:30 PM Tom_L: 5600
08:30 PM Tom_L: around there
08:31 PM Tom_L: i'm looking for the low end torque
08:31 PM Tom_L: not a bazillion rpm spindle off ebay
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-milling-spindle/cnc-milling-spindle-brushless-motor-and-driver/
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: what price are we matching?
08:32 PM Tom_L: that's in their ballpark
08:32 PM Tom_L: they've added the mounts etc
08:33 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-bldcmotor.htm
08:34 PM Tom_L: ideally it will run off mains so i don't need another supply
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: also interesting https://neumotors.cartloom.com/storefront/product/80xx-outrunner-motors-for-giant-scale-models
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: 6-8K rpm
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: specs here https://neumotors.com/neumotors-1900-series-bldc-motors-300-6000-watts/
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://neumotors.com/neumotors-8000-series-bldc-motors-7500-30000-watts/
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: for $300 they have a 10KW
08:40 PM Tom_L: open frame may not be the best
08:42 PM Rab: I chopped my finger open with a outrunner BLDC motor, got 4 stitches.
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: prices are good
08:42 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: use a belt and pulleys
08:42 PM Tom_L: does automation offer 2 different ones? they say 3hp and 1.5hp
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: yes 2 models
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: KL-1100 and KL-2200
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: the KL-1100 is out of stock with no listed price
08:45 PM Tom_L: yeah i see
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-milling-spindle/milling-spindle-1100w-1-5hp-max-6000rpm-brushless-motor-and-driver/
08:45 PM Tom_L: it would be 120v probably
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: $699.95
08:45 PM Tom_L: same as the other one
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: same price for the 2200
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: typical, call to find out
08:46 PM Tom_L: 0-10v control
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: he means well, he's just Chinese :)
08:46 PM Tom_L: wonder what sort of feedback
08:47 PM CaptHindsight: hall sensor
08:47 PM Tom_L: back to lcnc or back to their control?
08:47 PM Tom_L: i've got an encoder on it already
08:47 PM CaptHindsight: has Modbus
08:48 PM Tom_L: i don't know much (anything) about bldc
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: to the control
08:48 PM Tom_L: likely no lcnc comp for it
08:48 PM Tom_L: would modbus be better than analog with feedback?
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: look like you can read speed over modbus
08:49 PM Tom_L: bypassing the hall sensor
08:49 PM CaptHindsight: if the modbus works
08:49 PM CaptHindsight: see if he will sell just a motor
08:50 PM Tom_L: why's that?
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: he might have an odd number of each
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: use a different driver
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: something more LCNC friendly
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: does the Mesa BLDC amp have enough V and A?
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: make rigid tapping easier
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: or Modbus might just work, don't know
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/motion/8i20man.pdf
08:54 PM CaptHindsight: automationtechnologiesinc.com is local
08:55 PM Tom_L: the mesa card is brushless ac
08:55 PM Tom_L: how is that different from bldc?
08:55 PM Tom_L: and what's the motor voltage rating
08:56 PM Tom_L: if i knew more about it....
08:58 PM roycroft: that hard drive that was 114 degrees is now 65 degrees
08:59 PM roycroft: almost down to maximum operating temperature
09:00 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: did the room drop 50C as well?
09:00 PM CaptHindsight: you have airflow issues
09:00 PM CaptHindsight: not you, the room, chassis, rack etc
09:05 PM CaptHindsight: reducing ambient by 20C should not change the drive temp by 50C
09:05 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, thanks for all the info
09:05 PM jymmmm: Alright, what value is this? https://i.imgur.com/26Did0n.jpg
09:06 PM Tom_L: https://www.digikey.com/-/media/Images/Marketing/Resources/Calculator/resistor-color-chart.png?la=en-US&ts=4db603f5-4e9b-4759-84b7-21a04d18b1a8
09:07 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Nope, fail! NEXT...
09:08 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Not anywhere close to the actual metered value
09:09 PM Tom_L: is it tied in with another component making the value read different?
09:09 PM jymmmm: and yes, it's unsoldered
09:09 PM Tom_L: maybe it's bad?
09:09 PM jymmmm: works perfectly fine
09:09 PM * Tom_L gives jymmmm a paint brush and some water colors
09:10 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: You tell me what colors you see
09:10 PM Tom_L: brown red black red red
09:10 PM Tom_L: and maybe gold on the tip?
09:11 PM Tom_L: or blue blue blue blue depending on your perspective :)
09:11 PM jymmmm: I think that gold is flux
09:11 PM Tom_L: no, real close to the last red
09:11 PM Tom_L: maybe
09:12 PM jymmmm: I see it, I think it's flux
09:12 PM roycroft: capthindsight: it's about air flow as well as the ambient temperature drop
09:13 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Red huh, not violet?
09:13 PM roycroft: i got a lot more air moving across the racks
09:14 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/conversion-calculators/conversion-calculator-resistor-color-code-5-band
09:15 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: roycroft: What colors do you see? https://i.imgur.com/26Did0n.jpg
09:15 PM Tom_L: rainbow
09:16 PM roycroft: is that supposed to be a resistor?
09:16 PM roycroft: brown red black red red
09:16 PM Tom_L: no, it _is_ a resistor
09:16 PM roycroft: does it resist?
09:17 PM jymmmm: Where is the hell do you guys see red?! Maybe plum, but not red
09:17 PM jymmmm: in*
09:17 PM Tom_L: sry jymmmm you're outvoted
09:17 PM roycroft: there is no "plum" in the resistor color code
09:17 PM jymmmm: roycroft: EXACTLY
09:17 PM roycroft: it's not violet
09:17 PM roycroft: and it's not orange
09:17 PM roycroft: so it's red
09:17 PM roycroft: because the choices are limited
09:18 PM Tom_L: mauve
09:18 PM Rab: jymmmm, 12K 2%
09:18 PM Tom_L: find that on your chart
09:18 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: yeah, which makes me think a washed our violet
09:18 PM Tom_L: nope
09:18 PM XXCoder: roy whats up with ac ,achines now?
09:19 PM Rab: jymmmm, unless it measures a very low resistance, and then it might be an inductor.
09:19 PM roycroft: burnt sienna, imperial red, charcoal, cerise, amaranth
09:19 PM roycroft: there
09:19 PM jymmmm: Rab: It reads 22K on the meter. 1% if it's red, red blk, red brn
09:19 PM roycroft: do you like those colors better?
09:20 PM Rab: jymmmm, I see.
09:20 PM roycroft: and tell me their values, please
09:20 PM jymmmm: I STILL say it's not "red" though
09:20 PM Tom_L: I STILL say you're outvoted
09:20 PM roycroft: xxcoder: the hard drive i've been watching is down to 65 after a couple hours of the portable unit and some fans strategically placed in front of the servers
09:20 PM roycroft: jymmmm: i agree - it's *NOT* red
09:20 PM roycroft: but it's resistor red
09:20 PM XXCoder: thats good, back in control for now
09:21 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Don't you have soemthing device to go do or something?
09:21 PM roycroft: because it's not resistor violet and it's not resistor orange
09:21 PM CaptHindsight: red, brown black
09:21 PM roycroft: yes, xxcoder
09:21 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, naw this is getting fun
09:21 PM XXCoder: dont you guys tend to have resistance measuring
09:21 PM roycroft: we're going to regroup tomorrow
09:21 PM jymmmm: Resistor: 22k Ohms 1%
09:21 PM roycroft: my goal for today was not to fix the hvac units
09:21 PM Rab: Hmm, I have cabinets full of 1% TH resistors in front of me, and they all have a brown tolerance band...I never noticed.
09:21 PM roycroft: it was to make the room less hot
09:21 PM roycroft: and we accomplished that
09:21 PM jymmmm: https://www.digikey.com/en/resources/conversion-calculators/conversion-calculator-resistor-color-code-5-band
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: red red
09:22 PM roycroft: jymmmm: and we have no idea what those colors were when the resistor was first manufactured
09:22 PM roycroft: before years and years of aging and heating up and cooling off
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: see re red black red brown
09:23 PM Tom_L: tricky bastards
09:23 PM jymmmm: What Tom_L said
09:24 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Nah, I think just fucked up from the factory like that
09:24 PM roycroft: so on my way home from the Day From Hell(tm) (day *IN* hell?) i decided i deserve a nice refreshing beverage tonight
09:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ichaus.de/product/iC-TW29 26-Bit Encoder Processor with Interpolation
09:24 PM roycroft: i got some grapefruit cider from a cidery in auburn washington
09:24 PM roycroft: and i must say, it is absolutely delicious
09:24 PM CaptHindsight: that should be accurate to atomic level
09:25 PM roycroft: i've always loved citrus in cider
09:25 PM roycroft: but this stuff is done especially well
09:25 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, you seem facinated with that chip
09:26 PM roycroft: well it doesn't matter how it came from the factory vs how it looks now
09:26 PM roycroft: it's still brown red black red red
09:26 PM jymmmm: What's the tolerance commonly on surface mount resistors? 472 (4.7K)
09:26 PM roycroft: and note that i got the sequence correct after a period of time
09:26 PM roycroft: because person woman man camera tv
09:27 PM jymmmm: roycroft: reverse the sequence
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: nah just short memory today, 2 hrs sleep
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: or 3hrs
09:27 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/electronic_components/resistors/smt-smd-resistor-codes-markings.php
09:28 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: No, whats the tolerance?
09:28 PM Tom_L: mine is getting less than it was
09:29 PM Rab: jymmmm, if you can see 4 digits, typically 1%. If you can see 3, typically 5%.
09:29 PM jymmmm: Rab: TY
09:30 PM roycroft: anyway, the cider is from schilling cidery in auburn
09:30 PM Tom_L: i wasn't sure if it was 5 or 10%
09:30 PM roycroft: in case anyone in the northwet is interested
09:31 PM jymmmm: Aurburn California?
09:31 PM jymmmm: roycroft: how acidic was it?
09:32 PM Rab: However, EIA96 throws a wrench in that--I have reels of 1% resistors marked with the 3-alphanumeric code. And for that matter, I have other 1% reels with only 3 numeric digits. (All 0603.)
09:33 PM roycroft: auburn washington
09:33 PM roycroft: there's a bit of residual sweetnes, jymmmm
09:33 PM roycroft: but it has a fair amount of acidity
09:33 PM jymmmm: Rab: I suppose it doen't matter much, I have ZERO surface mount resistors, so I guess it can't hurt to use a 1% thru hole
09:33 PM Tom_L: you should get some
09:33 PM Rab: And for smaller than 0603, they often don't even print a code.
09:34 PM Tom_L: then sneeze as you view them on your desk
09:34 PM jymmmm: roycroft: Cool on the sweetness, but what about the aciditity?
09:34 PM roycroft: if it were auburn california i'd say "anyone in jefferson", not "anyone in the northwet" :)
09:34 PM roycroft: see above
09:34 PM roycroft: the residual sweetness balances the acidity
09:35 PM roycroft: and it's a smooth acidity - they probably aged it enough to do a malo-lactic acid conversion
09:35 PM jymmmm: k
09:35 PM jymmmm: MY stomache doesn't like lemonaid as example,
09:36 PM roycroft: you can tell there's some acid
09:36 PM roycroft: but it is pretty smooth
09:36 PM roycroft: it does not taste nearly as acidic as most lemonade
09:37 PM jymmmm: cool
09:42 PM roycroft: jymmm: the pH of lemon juice is about 2.0
09:43 PM roycroft: the pH of coca cola is 2.3
09:43 PM roycroft: if the pH of a fermenting beverage gets below about 3.0 any bacteria will stop metabolizing
09:43 PM roycroft: below about 2.7 will kill most yeast
09:47 PM robotustra: all this accidity is neutralizing after the passing stomach
09:47 PM roycroft: he's concerned about his stomach
09:48 PM robotustra: the stomach juice has accidity from 0.5 to 1.6
09:49 PM robotustra: so, nothing to warry about, it's inside the stomach, but inside the epitelium the acidity is about 6.8
09:49 PM robotustra: almost neutral
09:50 PM robotustra: so, healthy stomach by design can handle big accidity
09:51 PM roycroft: all i know is i look at that cider and i say "get in mah belly!"
09:51 PM roycroft: and my stomach concurs
09:52 PM robotustra: but of cause if you have some problems - it better not to drink acid
10:09 PM veegee: Damn, the air hammer destroys quick connect couplers
10:09 PM veegee: even steel ones
10:10 PM veegee: I ended up connecting a whip hose to it directly
10:13 PM roycroft: you don't want the restriction of a quick connect coupler anyway for something that sucks air like that
10:14 PM veegee: roycroft I use V style couplers only
10:14 PM veegee: the inner diameter is the same as a 3/8" hose
10:14 PM veegee: these are realllllly high flow couplers
10:16 PM veegee: My high flow blow gun is by far the fastest air consumer and I don't notice any difference between a V coupler and a direct connection. I measured.
10:20 PM roycroft: then never mind :)
10:22 PM veegee: V style is my favourite. They handle high pressure very well. Super easy to connect/disconnect safely at 250 PSI
10:32 PM CaptHindsight: asking for a spider, is spider silk or silkworm silk stronger?
10:40 PM jymmmm: spider silk
10:49 PM veegee: I have the ingersoll rand 114GQC, the cheapest air tool I own. It started to act funny - higher flow would cause the piston to stop moving. This Ave teardown video explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7yV7uYq0wk
10:49 PM veegee: Crap quality cylinder and piston machining
10:49 PM veegee: metal flakes clogging up the inside
10:49 PM veegee: Going to return that shit and get something better. Shame on you ingersoll rand