#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 29 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:08 AM XXCoder: "authorized required" "do not hack
12:14 AM CaptHindsight: i just asked, it's an insurance thing
12:14 AM CaptHindsight: they want to be sure that you also won't break it
01:00 AM CaptHindsight: https://deltatower.ch/en/fluid-2/
01:29 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: things haven't gotten much better in there
01:30 AM XXCoder: not any safer eh
01:30 AM CaptHindsight: it's like a dunio cult where everything has to be made from surplus toy parts
01:31 AM XXCoder: what is dunio cult
01:31 AM CaptHindsight: and they have to constantly readjust their machines since they wobble apart
01:32 AM CaptHindsight: reprap
01:32 AM CaptHindsight: of course
01:32 AM XXCoder: that dont sound like safe at all, expecially if its cnc
04:56 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:56 AM XXCoder: yo
05:19 AM Tom_L: morning
05:19 AM XXCoder: yo^2
07:03 AM veegee: good morning motherfuckers
07:03 AM XXCoder: hey regular fucker
07:03 AM veegee: sorry, been listening to old school hip hop a lot recently
07:03 AM veegee: Tupac, Biggie, that sort of thing
07:05 AM veegee: It's getting out of hand actually. I ordered a coffee and suffixed the request with "nigga"
07:05 AM veegee: I'm not white so no one cared. But I'm not black either
07:06 AM XXCoder: ow careful
07:09 AM JT-Cave: weird I just installed 2.6 and the browser won't connect to linuxcnc.org
12:10 PM jymmmm: Does anyone need a 12vdc@60A PS ?
12:10 PM jymmmm: 750W
12:17 PM Tom_L: heh
12:21 PM jymmmm: Wasn't a rhetorical question, $16 shipped
12:32 PM Tom_L: huh, mine's only 45A @ 750W
12:40 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: 12VDC@45A= 540W
12:42 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Are you using squirrel power for the extra watts?
12:44 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: I wouldn't be surprised, you are a little squirrely afterall ;)
12:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/12v_supply3.jpg
12:46 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/12v_supply2.jpg
12:48 PM jymmmm: 750W INPUT, 603W OUTPUT, 80% efficiency
01:00 PM Vq: I can give you a prototype 0.8V 120A (14V input) DC/DC converter if you want. ;)
01:00 PM Vq: Around 97% efficiency IIRC
01:00 PM Vq: non-isolated
01:03 PM jymmmm: Vq: Non isolated?! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!
01:18 PM unterhaus_: andypugh, don't you have a cnc add on to a manual lathe?
01:18 PM andypugh: unterhaus_: No, I have a fully-comverted lathe.
01:19 PM andypugh: But there was a CNC add-on on eBay.
01:21 PM roycroft: andypugh: you expressed an almost visceral dislike of set screws the other day
01:21 PM roycroft: do you mind saying why you loathe them so much?
01:22 PM Vq: jymmmm: It does zap and kill a child every now and then, but that's the price for efficiency.
01:22 PM andypugh: They marr the shaft and don’t really clamp all that tightly. And they do their best to reduce concentricity. And the heads are too small for the thread. And they smell funny.
01:23 PM roycroft: ok, most of those reasons are ones i share
01:24 PM roycroft: i don't think my olfactory senses are good enough to form an opinion on the last one, however
01:24 PM roycroft: but i'll take your word on that
01:25 PM roycroft: in some applications i find them useful - where extreme clamping force is not needed and where the slight reduction in concentricity does not matter
01:25 PM roycroft: but the marring is extremely irritating
01:25 PM roycroft: even when the other negatives are rendered moot
01:25 PM unterhaus_: andypugh, any search terms for that ebay auction?
01:26 PM rmu: roycroft: use carbide shafts. those will not get marred ;)
01:26 PM andypugh: unterhaus_: I am looking
01:30 PM jymmmm: Vq: fair enough
01:31 PM jymmmm: andypugh: they smell like real artificial bannanaanananaaaananaaa flavoring?
01:31 PM JT-Shop: often you see set screws opposite each other which is the worst way to have 2 set screws
01:32 PM jymmmm: I've only seen right angle set screws
01:32 PM jymmmm: Like at 12 and 3 oclock
01:33 PM jymmmm: andypugh: Ok, what do you like as an alternative to set screws?
01:34 PM andypugh: Various types of tapered thingy. Trantorque bushes, Taperlock hubs.
01:34 PM rmu: proper use of set screw https://youtu.be/6_1Nlf-X4bw?t=771
01:35 PM andypugh: Specially made things of my own devising: https://bodgesoc.blogspot.com/2017/01/gears.html
01:36 PM andypugh: I can accept a setscrew pressing on the back of a key on a keyed shaft
01:39 PM Tom_L: andypugh, thought you might be interested: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Gear_info/
01:39 PM Tom_L: good gear info
01:40 PM roycroft: when i use set screws i like them to be softer than the material they're tryiing to hold in place
01:40 PM roycroft: to prevent the marring
01:41 PM robotustra: Y axis nut installed successfully from the 1st attempt
01:42 PM Rab: I love set screws, because nothing salves the pain and terror of trying to loosen some intransigent shaft assembly like finding a nearly invisible, grease-covered set screw.
01:43 PM Tom_L: buried deep in a hole somewhere
01:43 PM rmu: those double set screws (set screw on top of set screw) are especially insidious
01:45 PM andypugh: unterhaus_: Google is being astonishingly hopeless with this search
01:46 PM andypugh: If I didn’t know that there used to be adaptors that you could bolt on to a lathe bed to make parts by CNC then Google would by now have persuaded me they never existed.
01:47 PM Tom_L: andypugh, those gears look nice
01:51 PM unterhaus_: andypugh, thanks for looking
01:52 PM unterhaus_: lots of hits on conversion kits, but cnc lathe just brings up collets
01:53 PM rmu: https://www.cncconversionplus.com/product/grizzly-g9972z-lathe-conversion-kit/ ?
01:58 PM * JT-Shop makes a mental note that Black Berry Zero is horrible
01:59 PM Tom_L: board or drink?
01:59 PM Tom_L: you never know anymore
01:59 PM JT-Shop: zero calorie drink
02:00 PM JT-Shop: I usually get Black Cherry but didn't look close enough I guess
02:08 PM unterhaus_: rmu my lathe has a dovetail mount for the compound. I was thinking about mounting an x y table to that
02:09 PM unterhaus_: I have some small parts I want to make and making them manually is a pain
02:13 PM andypugh: unterhaus_: The one I am thinking of mounted to the bed. You moved the saddle to the end, probably removed the tailstock (or put it on the other side of the saddle) and mounted the CNC thing to the bed. It had its own Z and X ways with long thin DC servos.
02:14 PM andypugh: And i can’t remember the name of it.
02:14 PM andypugh: Nor can Google find it
02:14 PM andypugh: I thought it might have been an early Centroid thing
02:16 PM unterhaus_: CNC lathe is suffering from namespace pollution
02:16 PM andypugh: I am starting to think I dreamed the whole thing.
02:16 PM unterhaus_: I know I have heard of something like that, removable
02:17 PM jymmmm: insta cnc?
02:17 PM jymmmm: andypugh: build it, they will come
02:18 PM andypugh: jymmmm: They were a fairly bad idea from the 198s
02:18 PM jymmmm: andypugh: OH, how come?
02:18 PM jymmmm: rigidity?
02:19 PM unterhaus_: replacing the saddle seems like a bad idea
02:19 PM unterhaus_: probably could be convinced that my xy table is a bad idea too
02:20 PM unterhaus_: but at least I can take it off and recycle easily
02:20 PM jymmmm: unterhaus_: If you said "Hold my beer"... then yes
02:20 PM unterhaus_: in fact, I could put it behind the spindle, so if it's a bad idea I can pretend it's not there
02:20 PM skunkworks: andypugh:
02:21 PM jymmmm: unterhaus_: beer coolant?
02:22 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: did you get the 1054 or the 1054z?
02:22 PM skunkworks: z
02:22 PM jymmmm: k
02:23 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: still liking it? any quirks?
02:23 PM andypugh: <wonders what skunkworks was going to say>
02:24 PM jymmmm: andypugh: skunkworks was being a girl and giving you "THE LOOK" that says it all =)
02:24 PM skunkworks: andypugh: sorry
02:24 PM skunkworks: andypugh: https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=166890&p=3
02:25 PM skunkworks: I don't know if you can explain it better.. It seems you can't have a system doing a 1khz realtime thread hobbing or such
02:26 PM skunkworks: Joseph Noci 1 post
02:30 PM skunkworks: jymmmm: I like it. No issues that I have run into. I have been meaning to try the web server part of it. Jepler mentioned it.
02:31 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: it has a web server?
02:31 PM skunkworks: I cannot remember the details - but yes. I think so
02:31 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: I heard there is a firmware upgrade too, but I havne't looked into it.
02:31 PM Rab: I feel uneasy about CNC'ing a manual machine with cast iron ways. I think CAM toolpaths can invite a lot more repetitive movement than typical manual machining, leading to increased wear. I wouldn't convert my 60yo manual mill. So I think fastening an X/Z motion platform in place of the lathe carriage could be a good approach.
02:32 PM skunkworks: jymmmm: I just did the hack to get 100mhz and such.
02:35 PM CaptHindsight: all depends on what you want the machine to do
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: you can make a manual machine move 10X faster, but will it handle the stress and vibration?
02:39 PM rmu: skunkworks: are you talking about ELS impl in linuxcnc? you don't need no bresenham in linuxcnc methinks
02:40 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: https://rogeorge.wordpress.com/2017/01/08/ds1054z-tricks-less-known-or-undocumented-part-1/
02:41 PM skunkworks: rmu: no - people seem to think that you need to know every encoder edge to do hobbing..
02:42 PM skunkworks: and polling the encoder counter every ms isn't fast enough
02:42 PM rmu: just like you need to know every cylinder firing in your car to drive
02:44 PM rmu: mechanical time constant of servo + lathe is probably on the order of 10ms or more, should be fine with 1ms thread
02:44 PM rmu: if done properly
02:46 PM skunkworks: andypugh: thank you :)
02:47 PM andypugh: What uis bresnham? It sounds like a cheese
02:48 PM rmu: andypugh: computer graphics algorithm to draw pixels approximating a straight line. more or less kind of DDS.
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bresenham%27s_line_algorithm
02:48 PM rmu: i think there is also a bresenham algorithm for circles
02:48 PM andypugh: Not really relevant there, then.
02:49 PM andypugh: Someone is juist trying to sound clever :-)
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: it's a close enough algorithm
02:49 PM skunkworks: Is he using it to creat the slope of the line for the ratio between the hob and the blank?
02:49 PM skunkworks: interager wise
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: the poster might be an old analog TV guy
02:50 PM skunkworks: THis many pulses from the encoder means this many pulse to the stepper
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: if your ratio is 0.3333333333333 then you are limited by the floating point precision that you choose
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: like most numbers that don't end being factors of 2
02:52 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: not really. the 32bit float is way more accurate than your mechanics ;)
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: re
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: sure
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: doesn't matter if you use 128b double double precision if the mechanics are to only 3 digits to the right of the decimal point
03:00 PM rmu: on a µC, you could, on every encoder count, add your fixed-point distance to an accumulator, and if the bit next to the decimal point toggles, you generate a step for the stepper
03:00 PM rmu: with 100kHz loop you could run up to 50kHz encoder count, that is enough for 6000rpm and 1000ppr encoder if i didn't miss a 0 somewhere
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: 5mm pitch, 1660 pules/rev = 3.125um per pulse
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: heh 1600 not 1660
03:03 PM rmu: ok i did miss a 0 ;)
03:04 PM rmu: 100rps * 4 * 1000 = 400kHz
03:05 PM rmu: linuxcnc does spindle synced thread cutting with "just" a spindle 1ppr index pulse
03:06 PM unterhaus_: I just found out I could upgrade my Tek digital scope. Not sure it's worth it to me, but sometimes I wouldn't mind having an fft
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: free firmware upgrade?
03:07 PM unterhaus_: I don't remember the details, I think it's just a code. Firmware is old
03:07 PM unterhaus_: it was on hackaday
03:07 PM unterhaus_: obviously didn't rush right downstairs to try it out
03:09 PM unterhaus_: https://hackaday.com/2020/07/19/upgrading-the-ram-in-a-25-year-old-oscilloscope/
03:09 PM unterhaus_: that's about updating ram, but links to the codes
03:11 PM robotustra: got DRO, pondering how to put it on the mill
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: no universal mounting adapters included?
03:13 PM robotustra: they are, but I think I can use it only on X-axis
03:14 PM robotustra: after drilling some extre holes
03:14 PM robotustra: Y axis - have to think, because I want to leave space for motors
03:14 PM Rab: unterhaus_, somebody I know haxed a later-model Tek scope for all the options. The options require physical keys, and inside each key is...an i2c eeprom containing the name of the option in ASCII.
03:16 PM unterhaus_: We have a high-end (at the time) Tek scope at work. But I think they would send you the software for features on disk
03:17 PM unterhaus_: I think it ran win me
03:17 PM unterhaus_: I liked having an operating system available, even if it was a crummy version of windows
03:18 PM Rab: I got a new Siglent DSO last year. I'm pretty sure it runs Linux.
03:19 PM Rab: I'd be shocked if any of the cheap chinese scopes didn't.
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: I never delved into the inner working of LCNC to see how it handles floats for long distance cuts
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: whatever is done works though, I don't have time to do everything
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: has anyone noticed threads being out by much over long lengths? pitch x 100 = L or more
03:37 PM Rab: Lengths of what?
03:37 PM Rab: Do you mean turned threads?
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: yes
03:41 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: linuxcnc uses double
03:42 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, wouldn't that somewhat depend on the resolution of your encoders?
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: sure
03:43 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: The raw encoder counts are kept in a 64-bit integer buffer.
03:43 PM andypugh: The floating-point position is calculated from that.
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: but with all the combos of steps and encoder resolutions people have and all the different thread pitches we would have heard about issues by now
03:43 PM andypugh: It won’t go wrong before the heat death of the universe at 500 rpm,
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: they are rarely even numbers
03:44 PM Tom_L: how many lathe conversions are there though compared to mill or other
03:45 PM Tom_L: seems most discussions here are about mill, plasma or laser
03:45 PM andypugh: Bacause us lathe owners don’t need any help :-)
03:46 PM Tom_L: add another axis and it gets really confusing
03:48 PM unterhaus_: Gene is the exception that proves the rule on lathe owners not needing help
03:48 PM unterhaus_: of course, he mainly needs help with his email server
03:48 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: JT-Cave Do you think we should have a section in “ubdating LinuxCNC” saying “Don’t update your 10 year old OS. make a copy of the LinuxCNC directory and install Buster"
03:50 PM unterhaus_: that sounds good to me. Actually having the steps for updating would not be a bad idea
03:51 PM Tom_L: andypugh, makes sense
03:51 PM Tom_L: somewhere back there i recall one that you couldn't skip if you were doing an update more than 1 version
03:52 PM Tom_L: 2.5 to 2.7? i don't recall now
03:52 PM Tom_L: maybe it was 2.4 to 2. 6?
03:55 PM Tom_L: To upgrade LinuxCNC to version 2.7 from a version older than 2.6, you have to first upgrade to 2.6, then follow these instructions to upgrade to 2.7.
03:55 PM Tom_L: yes
03:56 PM Tom_L: 2.8 changes the config to joint so i dunno which route would be the least painful
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: so in skunkworks linked example his lathe would never be off by more than 1/3 of a step up or down
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: so ~1um
03:58 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, as accurate as an allthread you'd get at ACE
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: 5mm pitch, 1660 pules/rev = 3.125um per pulse
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: yes
03:58 PM Tom_L: and glue gun guys seem to love those
03:59 PM Tom_L: they are the be all end all
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: i tried to take to some in #reprap the other day about better made FDM/FFF machines
03:59 PM Tom_L: you got scoffed at ehh?
03:59 PM Tom_L: beaten at the stake?
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: they didn't seem to understand why someone might not want to realign their machine every day to week from it being not rigid enough
04:00 PM Tom_L: it's a chore they live for
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: seems so
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: it's become religious
04:01 PM roycroft: one generally has different expectations when using a $300 machine, no?
04:02 PM Tom_L: likely higher than they'll ever achieve
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: sure but i was asking around to see who makes better machines
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: "just a waste of money"
04:02 PM roycroft: they can squirt out their cosplay action figures that are at least recognisable
04:03 PM roycroft: so why spend more money on something better? :)
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://deltatower.ch/en/fluid-2/ example applications
04:03 PM roycroft: when i got my 3d printer some of the folks on that channel were pretty helpful when i had questions about why things were behaving as they were
04:04 PM roycroft: but i went into it knowing that the technology is pretty limited for what i was willing to invest
04:04 PM rmu: i got a cetus 3d, seems rigid enough for 3d printing. didn't do much with it though, it mostly sits on the shelf
04:04 PM roycroft: and it's met my expectations, mostly
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: my apps are 99% industrial
04:05 PM roycroft: i'm mostly making jigs and storage containers for my shops
04:05 PM rmu: i use it sometimes to keep the kids occupied ;)
04:05 PM roycroft: a low end 3d printer can work fine for that
04:06 PM roycroft: i have not ever made nor do i intend to make anything with it that i would call a "product"
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: reliable and accurate without daily tweaks
04:06 PM roycroft: or that i would give to another person
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: like a CNC machine
04:06 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: there are "real" vendors of 3d printing machines, stratasys etc...
04:07 PM Tom_L: they could use higher pitch smaller ballscrews and be leaps ahead of most of them
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: my typical spare parts https://i.imgur.com/LOriL1y.png
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: but i don't have time to make everything
04:07 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: so i look for off the shelf at least as a stating point
04:12 PM JT-Shop: andypugh, will buster work on a 10 year old pc?
04:12 PM JT-Shop: if so then yes I think that's a good idea
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: Buster works here on even older PC's
04:12 PM rmu: running buster on 2005ish AMDs
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: whats the cutoff for old CPU's?
04:12 PM roycroft: my impression is that to go from the consumer 3d printers to real industrial ones is a cost leap of 2 to 3 orders of magnitude
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: $95 ^^
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: i was looking for delta printers possibly made closer to how robots are made
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: kernel 5.1 or 5.2 made some significant floating point changes
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: they said it might effect older cpus, but a penitium-3 works ok
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.pcworld.com/article/2020196/linux-3-8-will-drop-support-for-intel-386-chips.html
04:20 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: that was 2012 ;)
04:21 PM andypugh: JT-Shop: Good question. The suggestion should probably be to try the LiveCD and do a latency test to find out.
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: what kernel comes with Buster?
04:22 PM rmu: 4.19
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: or will with preempt_rt
04:23 PM CaptHindsight: ah so that will go back to some 486's
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: https://hackaday.com/2019/08/23/modern-linux-runs-on-ancient-toshiba/
04:27 PM Tom_L: andypugh, i think (it's been a while) i tried buster on the D525 and the latency wasn't very good
04:28 PM andypugh: It’s brilliant on my Core2Duo
04:29 PM Tom_L: funny because it seems ok on the rpi4
04:29 PM Tom_L: i'm sure they fiddle with their os some
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: also great on Celeron 847
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: the only Intel I purchased and used since 1998 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Asus-C8HM70-I-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-Intel-Celeron-847-CPU-4GB-RAM-I-O-Shield-/123622701491
04:39 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
04:42 PM JT-Shop: andypugh, I think the suggestion to try it first is a good idea, sorry in and out still working :(
04:47 PM unterhaus_: is there a buster livecd?
04:55 PM JT-Shop: might also be a good idea to either link to a section that explains latency or give examples of good latency
04:56 PM pink_vampire: Loetmichel: here?
04:57 PM Loetmichel: yes
04:57 PM pink_vampire: Loetmichel: how do you make long straight cut on aluminum sheet (before you put it on the cnc)
04:58 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17930&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
04:58 PM Loetmichel: just wear PPE
04:59 PM pink_vampire: what blade are you using?
04:59 PM Loetmichel: its loud, hot and dangerous ("kickback" would be a keyword here)
04:59 PM Loetmichel: https://direktkauf.idealo.de/productpage/5370949
05:00 PM pink_vampire: Cool! thanks!
05:01 PM Loetmichel: de nada
05:02 PM roycroft: and you use a fence on the table saw
05:02 PM roycroft: otherwise you should not be permitted to be near machinery like that
05:03 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: i just cut a few small 4mm waste strips
05:03 PM Loetmichel: a fence is not useful there
05:03 PM Loetmichel: the horizontal sled is better fro that
05:03 PM Loetmichel: for that
05:06 PM roycroft: a sled is fine
05:06 PM roycroft: freehanding is *never* an acceptable practise on a table saw
05:10 PM MrHindsight: what CAM app has the extra spin bits for using a drag knife?
05:10 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
05:16 PM CaptHindsight: and drag knife vs ultrasonic cutter
05:25 PM pink_vampire: CaptHindsight: it is a *Drag* knife all you need is 2 axis cam
05:25 PM pink_vampire: the knife is on bearings
05:26 PM CaptHindsight: but you need that little spin to get it to flip to cut vs tear sideways when turning sharp corners
05:27 PM CaptHindsight: swivel moves
05:28 PM roycroft: what is going to spin it?
05:28 PM roycroft: a little robot arm that reaches out to reposition it?
05:30 PM CaptHindsight: certainly
05:30 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, https://www.reddit.com/r/CNC/comments/fxf8ls/new_video_on_drag_knife_post_from_fusion_360/
05:31 PM roycroft: you could program the mill to lift it at a corner, back way up, and then reapproach the part with a rapid, and hope that it goes fast enough that the knife acts like a weather vane and positions itself correctly before you touch down again
05:31 PM Tom_L: roycroft, it's behind center slightly
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: i like the robot hand
05:33 PM Tom_L: that 'post' wasn't the post i had in mind
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: don't use drag knives, just wondering
05:36 PM Tom_L: https://grabcad.com/library?page=1&time=all_time&sort=recent&query=drag%20knife
05:36 PM Tom_L: lots of designs there
05:36 PM Tom_L: a few...
05:43 PM roycroft: drag knives are nice for engraving stuff
05:43 PM roycroft: a lot nicer than a rotary cutter, when you can make them work
05:46 PM roycroft: i should think that if you get the tool geometry right, when you need to do a sudden change in direction you can just program the machine to stop, then move laterally a wee bit and that would rotate the knife in situ to point in the new direction, then start cutting again
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: speaking of cutters https://i.imgur.com/BuLeQ1P.mp4
05:47 PM roycroft: maybe lift it a few thousandths before rotating it
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: i have some leftover belt drives
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: ~1m long
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: might have a new pupose
05:47 PM CaptHindsight: purpose even
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.parkermotion.com/products/Belt_Driven_Linear_Actuators__5485__30_32_80_567_29.html
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: Repeatability (+/-) 200um without encoders on the carriage
05:50 PM CaptHindsight: with a <<1Kg load i wonder how much better I can get them using an encoder strip
05:52 PM CaptHindsight: belts are 50-60mm wide
06:33 PM tiwake: https://houston.craigslist.org/bfs/d/sweeny-nardini-fast-trace-cnc-lathe/7159380222.html
06:42 PM ziper: is this a good deal https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/tls/d/west-palm-beach-roland-mdx-40-cnc-mill/7150003419.html
06:43 PM JT-Cave: pretty small...
06:43 PM tiwake: for just an engraving machine?
06:44 PM JT-Cave: pretty neat with a 4th axis
06:44 PM XXCoder: ti it looks like lathe/mill combo
06:44 PM tiwake: probably mill only
06:45 PM ziper: are there things you can do on a lathe you can't do on a 4 axis mill?
06:45 PM XXCoder: yeah.
06:45 PM tiwake: ohhhhh ouch
06:45 PM tiwake: Computer Interface: USB
06:45 PM ziper: like what?
06:45 PM tiwake: that kills it for me, super hard
06:45 PM XXCoder: honestly that thing is almost reprap
06:46 PM XXCoder: I doubt I would buy it
06:46 PM tiwake: yeah, thats a nogo from me
06:46 PM tiwake: you can make something a lot better
06:56 PM roycroft: ziper: that machine would be ok for milling clay or plastic or balsa wood
06:59 PM Tom_L: don't forget butter or wax
07:01 PM roycroft: warm butter
07:01 PM roycroft: and maybe paraffin
07:01 PM roycroft: but not carnauba
07:09 PM norias: hello
07:57 PM CaptHindsight: Roland is the Rolls Royce of cheese mills
07:57 PM norias: hmm what is a cheese mill
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: dental models and plastics
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: norias: a cnc mill made to cut various cheeses
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: and other soft materials
07:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://shop.snapmaker.com/products/snapmaker-2-0-modular-3-in-1-3d-printers?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzsy76eLz6gIVBNbACh3i7AIkEAQYAyABEgItGPD_BwE
08:42 PM robotustra: f***ing DRO
08:43 PM Tom_L: not your friend?
08:43 PM XXCoder: or too much of a friend?
08:43 PM robotustra: Tom_L, are you talking to me?
08:44 PM Tom_L: i was
08:44 PM robotustra: we already friends
08:45 PM Tom_L: what about the DRO?
08:45 PM robotustra: but I don't know if I should write a negative review
08:45 PM robotustra: power supply inside was working 1 time of 10 or less
08:45 PM robotustra: 120 AC-> 5 DC
08:46 PM robotustra: it's a switching power supply of about 10W
08:46 PM robotustra: or less
08:46 PM robotustra: I throw it out, installed usual charger for mobile phone and now it works
08:47 PM Tom_L: tell them you need a new part for it
08:47 PM robotustra: but I'm an electric engineer, by the end of the day
08:47 PM Tom_L: so it was a good thing
08:47 PM Tom_L: you got an EE degree for the price of a power supply
08:48 PM ziper: ok, so i realize the machine is junk
08:48 PM ziper: but what can you do on a 3 axis lathe that you can't do on a 4 axis mill?
08:48 PM robotustra: no I don't have a formal EE education, but I'm a physicist who did some switching power electronics
08:49 PM robotustra: and I have some radio parts and soldering station and all other stuff.
08:49 PM robotustra: that's why it was easy, but still I'm upset
08:50 PM robotustra: and another interesting thing - one scale have different wiring for X and Y axii
08:50 PM robotustra: and there is an adapter which rewires the connection
08:51 PM robotustra: I don't know why they do this
08:51 PM Tom_L: heh
08:51 PM robotustra: it mean that I can just resolder wires and throw out the adapter
08:52 PM robotustra: on one ruler all 5 top pins of DB-9 are used
08:52 PM robotustra: on another 1 top row pin and 4 bottom pins
08:52 PM robotustra: May be there is a reason behind this
08:52 PM Tom_L: they don't want you to mix them up
08:53 PM robotustra: no
08:53 PM robotustra: inside DRO there only top pins are used
08:53 PM robotustra: it's inside ruler connectors
08:53 PM Tom_L: hmm
08:53 PM robotustra: anyway, I'll fix it later
08:54 PM robotustra: I have to shorten cable too
08:55 PM robotustra: but good news that it works finally
08:55 PM robotustra: and it's LCD
08:55 PM robotustra: not LED elments
08:56 PM robotustra: one big STM32 controller inside
08:57 PM robotustra: 5 um rulers
08:59 PM Tom_L: how many decimal?
08:59 PM Tom_L: 3 or 4?
09:01 PM robotustra: 3
09:01 PM robotustra: but the last one is 5 or 0
09:01 PM robotustra: it's in mm
09:01 PM Tom_L: switchable?
09:02 PM robotustra: yes
09:02 PM robotustra: I think in inch mode ir will be 4
09:03 PM robotustra: I got rulers long before DRO
09:03 PM robotustra: I was planning to install them to the lathe, but when I got them they are quite big
09:04 PM robotustra: I don't have space to put them inside
09:11 PM robotustra: is somebody knows what ruler sends?
09:11 PM robotustra: is there any protocol?
09:11 PM robotustra: or it's just +, -, A, B, common wire?
09:14 PM Tom_L: https://www.yuriystoys.com/2019/01/shahe-dro-scales.html
09:15 PM Tom_L: https://wiki.hive13.org/images/2/24/21_Bit_Protocol_Scales.pdf
09:15 PM _unreal_: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717411349541683212/738216957332946994/cnc_machine_z_upgrade.jpg
09:15 PM _unreal_: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717411349541683212/738217405091676190/15960751258407803100453420318564.jpg
09:15 PM Tom_L: lookin good
09:16 PM _unreal_: just finished that part
09:16 PM _unreal_: need to get the right sized screws
09:17 PM Tom_L: 5mm?
09:17 PM _unreal_: then I can mount the spindle
09:17 PM Tom_L: for the skates
09:17 PM _unreal_: the cars?
09:17 PM _unreal_: and rails? are you asking me
09:18 PM _unreal_: 12mm
09:18 PM Tom_L: are the car mounting screws 5mm?
09:19 PM _unreal_: 3mm
09:19 PM Tom_L: oh wow
09:19 PM _unreal_: we are talking small dude
09:20 PM robotustra: I have this rulers https://www.ebay.com/itm/HXX-linear-scale-5um-50-1000mm-GCS-linear-encoder-for-milling-lathe-machine/153128822136
09:20 PM Tom_L: i bought a box of 5 & 6mm hex heads for mine
09:20 PM _unreal_: oh digital ruler?
09:20 PM _unreal_: CANT wait to get the new mill head upgrade done
09:20 PM _unreal_: going to be a big difference
09:21 PM _unreal_: trying to get it done before I move out of this house
09:21 PM _unreal_: trying to find a place fast
09:21 PM Tom_L: is that block a hard stop for it?
09:21 PM Tom_L: are you gonna have room to mount limit switches under it?
09:22 PM robotustra: I'll not install switch limits
09:22 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/X_Axis_limit1.jpg
09:25 PM _unreal_: yes
09:25 PM _unreal_: hard stop and the bottom and top
09:25 PM _unreal_: and there is a built in limit switch
09:25 PM Tom_L: built in how?
09:26 PM _unreal_: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717411349541683212/738220899378921512/15960759540557603224049487852239.jpg
09:26 PM Tom_L: i wondered if you layed it down flat
09:28 PM Tom_L: what trips it on the plate?
09:28 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/X_Axis_limit_stops.jpg
09:28 PM _unreal_: ?
09:28 PM Tom_L: what trips the switch
09:28 PM _unreal_: the drive nut
09:29 PM _unreal_: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/717411349541683212/738221699895656530/15960761265216884571104202217708.jpg
09:30 PM _unreal_: I am very pleased with the finish quality
09:30 PM robotustra: interesting https://www.caliper2pc.de/download/glass_scale.php
09:31 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, i found it kinda fun figuring out all that stuff on mine
09:36 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Bearing_Bracket/Bearing_Bracket_cad.jpg
09:36 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Bearing_Bracket/Bearing_Bracket5.jpg
09:37 PM Tom_L: i had to add those to keep the cover from catching on the rail edge as you can see where it's worn
09:39 PM robotustra: is it support for rubber?
09:39 PM Tom_L: yes
09:39 PM robotustra: I want to make rigid metal cover for my lathe
09:40 PM Tom_L: i got the neoprene free
09:40 PM robotustra: like foldable
09:40 PM Tom_L: yeah i know
09:40 PM Tom_L: it works good
09:40 PM robotustra: I want to put a grinder on the tool post
09:41 PM robotustra: so I think neoptene can be deflected or burned
09:42 PM Tom_L: it's pretty tough
09:42 PM robotustra: but I don't see how I can wrap rails
09:45 PM robotustra: it should be like C- shape on top of rails
09:45 PM jymmmm: neoprene? the stuff wet suits are made from?
09:46 PM Tom_L: yeah but non porous
09:46 PM robotustra: for instance
09:46 PM jymmmm: ah
09:46 PM Tom_L: think about material moving belts
09:46 PM jymmmm: gtcha
09:47 PM robotustra: rigid durable plastic
09:47 PM jymmmm: just got done making pork chili verde, it was GOOD =)
09:49 PM Tom_L: cool unwrap feature of catia: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/threading/Drum_flange.jpg
09:49 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/threading/Drum_flange1.jpg
09:50 PM Tom_L: forgot i had those
09:52 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/threading/angledrive.jpg
09:52 PM Tom_L: offset drill drive for a bridgeport
09:52 PM Tom_L: for hard to reach areas
09:53 PM Tom_L: mmm i should clean that dir out
09:58 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/threading/prints/Ti_print2.jpg
09:58 PM Tom_L: Ti printed as a single print
10:15 PM robotustra: who did it?
10:15 PM robotustra: powder + laser?
10:15 PM XXCoder: Ti it'd have to be sls yeah
10:26 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:55 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
10:55 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
10:55 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
10:56 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/
10:56 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: https://www.teuniz.net/DSRemote/
10:57 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: that must not have been low cost
11:04 PM jymmmm: zero power connected, ohming out traces... if the resistance flustates, is that basically a cap charging up?
11:04 PM jymmmm: fluctuates*
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: it will have low resistance and go higher and higher
11:50 PM CaptHindsight: if you flip the leads it will drop back down and then go higher and higher again
11:51 PM CaptHindsight: start with the caps discharged for sanity sake