#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 25 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:21 AM _unreal_: XXCoder, are you talking to me?
12:29 AM XXCoder: its a clear improvement though
12:29 AM pink_vampire: yeah! totally!
12:29 AM pink_vampire: now I'm working on the lathe cnc conversion
12:30 AM pink_vampire: but I can't found any wiring diagrams or "general part list"
12:31 AM XXCoder: someone else's https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/582328579195666432/736451112059666512/SANY0217.jpg
12:32 AM pink_vampire: hing?
12:34 AM XXCoder: looks like modified mill into "lathe"
12:34 AM XXCoder: dunno
12:40 AM jymmmm: Damn, took FOREVER just to remove #4 coil
12:40 AM jymmmm: WEll, the connector actually, just would not budge or unlatch. Who is the dumbass that put the locking tab on the BOTTOM?!?!?!
12:43 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: some cars are just fun that way
12:46 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: at least I dont' have to jack up the engine and take off the tire just to remove the oil filter
12:47 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: You know that's yours, it has your name all over it
12:47 AM XXCoder: lol
12:52 AM jymmmm: WTH... http://www.f150hub.com/img/tutorials/spark-plugs/f-150-spark-plugs-1.jpg
12:52 AM jymmmm: Those are the wrench combintions needed to remove the spark plugs
12:53 AM XXCoder: lol. my old van I used extension-extension-extension
12:53 AM XXCoder: one short and 2 long ones
12:54 AM jymmmm: I got a 3, 6, and a elbow ratchet. I just replaced #4, I think #8 is going to be the harder one
12:54 AM renesis: xxcoder: cool, thats a taig
12:54 AM XXCoder: taig?
12:54 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: taig is a mini mill
12:54 AM jymmmm: micro mill ?
12:55 AM XXCoder: oh interesting
12:55 AM renesis: i guess, its 12 x 5.5 x 6, ER16, can do 6061
12:55 AM XXCoder: https://taigtools.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2019Man_1.jpg
12:55 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: interesting small machine lol
12:55 AM renesis: under $2000 on ebay, comes with a geck0 4ch
12:56 AM XXCoder: sadly I still has no room
12:56 AM XXCoder: i got plenty of time now, but still no damn room
12:56 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Actually, you might have enough room for a taig
12:56 AM renesis: i mounted mine to a 2x4 ft table with folding legs
12:56 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: it's only like 14" wide
12:56 AM renesis: theyre 80 lbs
12:57 AM renesis: built into iron square tube so still pretty rigid
12:57 AM XXCoder: that small interesting
12:57 AM renesis: well, needs more than 14", the 14" thing moves
12:57 AM XXCoder: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/R58wz-m975g/maxresdefault.jpg
12:57 AM XXCoder: of course
12:57 AM renesis: and its got a stepper and pretty long coupler hanging off
12:58 AM jymmmm: You know, they did give good advice about unplugging #3 injector and removing #3 coil so you can get to #4 http://www.f150hub.com/maintenance/4.6-5.4-spark-plug-replacement.html
12:58 AM renesis: anyway, i love my taig
12:58 AM XXCoder: what can it mill?
12:58 AM XXCoder: alum?
12:58 AM renesis: 6061
12:59 AM XXCoder: hard alum eh
12:59 AM renesis: well it can do softer, either way you gotta use coolant to keep heat down
01:00 AM renesis: itll do steel if you get speeds and feeds right, but itll be loud and wont cut deep
01:00 AM renesis: tools wont last too long
01:00 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: butter =)
01:00 AM renesis: super small chips suck, too, like little needles everywhere
01:00 AM XXCoder: fun lol
01:00 AM XXCoder: yeah steel needles chip really suck
01:01 AM renesis: but aluminum is fine, chips dont poke
01:01 AM jymmmm: renesis: dust collector?
01:01 AM renesis: with Al its makes foil bits more than dust
01:02 AM renesis: i usually do like .001 to .004 chip load
01:02 AM jymmmm: renesis: Still, better to suck up all the swarf than having it in your skin
01:03 AM renesis: i use coolant so it kind of turns to gritty mud
01:03 AM renesis: if im using small diameter, metallic paint
01:03 AM jymmmm: wet dry shop vac?
01:03 AM renesis: suck it up with a shop vac after
01:03 AM renesis: yeah
01:04 AM renesis: things been in storage more than a year, itll be sticky when i pull it out :/
01:04 AM renesis: cleans up nice, tho
01:05 AM renesis: and ive never had issues with it getting stuck because of sticky coolant, its just icky
01:06 AM XXCoder: mill turn icky always
01:52 AM jymmmm: YAY, 1 thru 4 are done!!!
01:52 AM CaptHindsight: the only way i have found to avoid chips is to have someone else machine for you
01:53 AM jymmmm: Got salsa?
01:53 AM CaptHindsight: salsa your face
01:54 AM jymmmm: yo momma
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: oh to be 13 again
01:54 AM jymmmm: what do you mean... again?
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: still
01:55 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: have any kids?
01:55 AM jymmmm: nope
01:55 AM CaptHindsight: not even in your shed or cooler?
02:02 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Glad to see you think that highly of me
02:03 AM jymmmm: Whine whinw whine... I'm cold, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, blah blah blah
02:03 AM CaptHindsight: nah, not your kids
02:04 AM CaptHindsight: my turn on the flame thrower, no it's not
02:05 AM jymmmm: My clothes have holes in them and are 12 years old, I haven't eatin in 6 weeks, I haven't had a thing to drink in 14 days... such whiners, eeeesh
02:09 AM CaptHindsight: hurricanes Headed For Texas
02:09 AM CaptHindsight: pandemic and hurricanes
02:09 AM XXCoder: everything in texas is bigger. including plague and hurricanes
02:09 AM XXCoder: hell, you can even see covid with plain mark 1 eyeballs there.
02:10 AM CaptHindsight: the pandemic was a fake by the libtards
02:10 AM CaptHindsight: is the hurricane also fake? :)
02:11 AM CaptHindsight: i really don't know what they think or how
02:14 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: YOu in texas?
02:14 AM XXCoder: nah
02:14 AM jymmmm: k
03:11 AM pink_vampire: what motors are recommended those days for cnc conversion?
03:46 AM Tom_L: for what?
03:55 AM pink_vampire: my lathe
03:57 AM Tom_L: mine are 570 in/oz nema23 on the mill. dunno what lathe requirements are
03:57 AM pink_vampire: Tom_L: originally I've used DC servos with G320X drivers, but maybe there is better stuff now days
03:57 AM pink_vampire: yours are servos?
03:58 AM Tom_L: no
04:00 AM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pcs-NEMA23-570OZ-IN-5A-3-8-DUAL-SHAFT-STEPPER-MOTOR/253223632606?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
04:00 AM Tom_L: they've gone up since i got mine
04:00 AM XXCoder: thats quote a lot more powerful than my cnc router ones I think
04:00 AM XXCoder: not bad
04:01 AM XXCoder: too bad still no room and locked down budget
04:02 AM Tom_L: the last ones i took off the sherline were 180?? iirc
04:31 AM pink_vampire: I want servos
05:10 AM andypugh: I tend to use whatever servos I can find sheap on eBay. Actually, it is a bit the other way round. I find servos cheap on eBay then try to find a use for them.:-)
05:10 AM XXCoder: :)
05:10 AM andypugh: The closed-loop steppers seem worth a look, though, if you want to buy a package new.
05:36 AM XXCoder: cool https://youtu.be/4pIPrrcwM0E
05:36 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:36 AM XXCoder: hey
05:41 AM XXCoder: man camshift is crazy
05:54 AM andypugh: There must be steps that he is not showing on the camshaft. Probably hand-filing the base circle.
05:54 AM XXCoder: its definitely not really eductuctive video. well some stuff sure
05:54 AM XXCoder: but not for beginner for sure
05:56 AM pink_vampire: andypugh: I see alot of used ac servos for very cheap, but I'm not sure what drivers I need for them
05:57 AM andypugh: You need an AC servo driver :-)
05:58 AM andypugh: The perfect drive for the job is the STMBL. But there is a problem there as a key component was discontinued and the new design isn’t available yet.
06:03 AM pink_vampire: what driver are you recomended instead of the stmbl?
06:05 AM andypugh: I don’t really have a recommendation, as I have enough STMBLs for my own purposes.
06:05 AM andypugh: The Mesa 8i20 is an option, but it depends on the power and voltage of the motors what is applicable.
06:06 AM andypugh: You see a lot of AMC brushless drives on eNBay, too.
06:06 AM andypugh: (An AC servo is pretty much identical to a brushless motor)
06:06 AM XXCoder: wow a ebay ripoff enbay
06:06 AM XXCoder: ;)
07:43 AM JT-Cave: out of coffee must be time to start working on something
07:43 AM XXCoder: :)
08:59 AM unterhaus_: the harmonic drive Gene Hesket found on thingiverse is pretty cool
09:00 AM unterhaus_: not sure I would use it in a machine tool though
09:42 AM Tom_L: i'd like to know his feed/speed on that slot cutter
09:43 AM Tom_L: i tried it and the spindle didn't like it at all
09:43 AM Tom_L: but mine was a longer solid piece
09:44 AM JT-Cave: for a dovetail or T slot?
09:45 AM Tom_L: thin saw cut for a bolt clamp
09:45 AM Tom_L: my saw is ~3" iirc
09:46 AM JT-Cave: very very slow rpm and light cuts works for me
09:46 AM Tom_L: if i go too slow rpm the motor stalls
09:47 AM Tom_L: then the pid winds up and goes nuts
09:47 AM Tom_L: i did something else for that one and i can't even recall what it was now
09:48 AM Tom_L: the project that is
09:53 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, i think your spindle has a little more oomph than mine
10:04 AM skunkworks: slotting cutters are scary
10:05 AM skunkworks: The k&t is nice as it can go really low rpm. The sfm at diamter requires it
10:35 AM pink_vampire: Tom_L: what material? what size of slitting saw? how meany teeth?
10:39 AM pink_vampire: Tom_L: the general rule is to spin it slow, but feet it not too slow to avoid rubbing, and the the whole cut in one pass, also keep it super lubricated.
10:44 AM Tom_L: i've used plenty of slitting saws just that the sherline spindle is pretty weak
10:44 AM Tom_L: even in stainless steel
10:44 AM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: is this the one gene is printing? https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2086118
10:48 AM CaptHindsight: he mentioned that it the only true harmonic drive on thingiverse but I see a few that are
10:56 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=xw7izhJbOHs&feature=emb_logo
10:57 AM unterhaus_: CaptHindsight: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4505585
10:58 AM unterhaus_: Gene's looks a little more robust than the one you linked
10:58 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DwqN1pEkVg timing belt as flex gear
10:59 AM CaptHindsight: thanks i saw that one as well
11:02 AM CaptHindsight: https://gizmodorks.com/acetal-3d-printer-filament/ seems like a match for that drive
11:05 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.3dxtech.com/carbon-fiber-filaments/carbonx-nylon-pa6-cf/
11:05 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: acetal filament? really? lets hope you have an "on the point" hotend heat regulation.
11:06 AM Loetmichel: acetal has an awfully small span from glass temp to decomposing IIRC
11:06 AM Loetmichel: and emits REALLY nasty fumes when decomposing
11:06 AM CaptHindsight: don't use toy printers
11:07 AM CaptHindsight: chemistry has dangers, deal with them
11:09 AM CaptHindsight: extruding PLA emits nanoparticles
11:10 AM Loetmichel: i was just mentioning it because some might think that its a good idea to do that on the usualy $80 kit printer
11:10 AM CaptHindsight: out of sight, out of mind?
11:11 AM jymmmm: WHAT THE FUCK?!  HE does part 1 and 2, and RIGHT where he gets to the #7 you hear him say "SOB, we'll be right back" and then talks about part 3, BUT THERE IS NO PART 3?!?!?!  https://youtu.be/hEUAPKKHPc4?t=458 and that's the cyl that I need to figure out
11:11 AM Loetmichel: more like "nanoparticles are harmless compared to vast amounts of formaldehyde inhalantion
11:11 AM Loetmichel: "
11:12 AM jymmmm: #7 is DIRECTLY under the fuel rail, sigh
11:13 AM Tom_L: jymmmm, it's a suspense thriller
11:13 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: 7 years is long enough
11:13 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: as i tend to say to my coworkers: "if it were easy everyone could do it themselves and didnt have to pay US for it!"
11:15 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: There's a difference between knowledgable, and a down right fucking PITA. Much like having to literally jack up the engine and remove the tire just to replace the oil filter, uh, NO!
11:15 AM Loetmichel: i know. i drive BMWs. dont tell me anything about PITA ;)
11:15 AM CaptHindsight: smoking is harmless compared to huffing plutonium
11:16 AM Tom_L: i wonder if design engineers consult service engineers when designing
11:16 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: nope. If anything to make it LESS serviceable
11:16 AM Loetmichel: :-)
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: atomic war is nothing compared to the sun going supernova
11:16 AM Tom_L: i think for the most part they just stay in their cubicle
11:17 AM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: it's design by 1000 monkeys
11:17 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: you can go that insanity road alone. thanks for being an ass just because i wanted to warn some newbs.
11:17 AM CaptHindsight: having a few people with experience is too risky
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: nah, it's just writers embellishment
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: to the MDA, it's far less risky to have a large team fumble around to get something that almost works vs try to figure out who to hire to make something really work
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: MDA/MBA
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: large team = safe, small group = scary
11:21 AM Tom_L: large team - too many fingers to point
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: and try not to get fired
11:22 AM CaptHindsight: main goal
11:22 AM Tom_L: probably take a month for that to go full circle
11:23 AM CaptHindsight: I've watched the insanity. Got paid to help only to watch them spend millions on something that gets shelved 1-2 years later since it didn't work right. Then circle back
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: the aircraft co's in your backyard are similar
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: they change management teams every few years
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: when they do they always change their approach to manufacturing
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: so you can sit back and reuse the stuff from the last cycle they abandoned
11:26 AM CaptHindsight: ask Stuart
11:26 AM Tom_L: i don't need to, i know
11:27 AM Tom_L: what's he up to these days anyway?
11:27 AM Tom_L: still at the place he went from MPM?
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: he said he was in a new shop
11:27 AM CaptHindsight: as far as i know
11:28 AM Tom_L: were you at the fest back then?
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: in 13', yeah
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: spent the last day at the airport waiting several hours for a flight out
11:30 AM CaptHindsight: 6 hour delay
11:30 AM Tom_L: i stopped by briefly the final weekend.. fri/sat not sure which
11:30 AM Tom_L: all new airport now
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: i think that was the same summer some jumbo jet landed at the wrong airport there
11:31 AM CaptHindsight: they had to get someone from Boeing to fly it back out due to the short runway
11:31 AM Tom_L: maybe, i thought that was later
11:32 AM Tom_L: yeah that was one big f up
11:32 AM Tom_L: both are on the same glide path but a couple miles a part
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: wonder what they would have done if it was too short to take off
11:33 AM CaptHindsight: remove wings and transport by truck?
11:33 AM Tom_L: heh haul it down webb road to the air base
11:34 AM Tom_L: couple bridges it might not fit under
11:34 AM Tom_L: that would have cracked the roads for sure
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: pave a gravel patch to the air base and tow?
11:35 AM CaptHindsight: patch/path
11:35 AM Tom_L: no place for one
11:35 AM Tom_L: it would have been rock or webb road
11:38 AM Tom_L: rig up a catapult :)
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: rocket assisted
11:39 AM Tom_L: i was out at the school one day when a jet shorted the runway and folded his gear up
11:39 AM Tom_L: it's literally out their back yard
11:39 AM CaptHindsight: looks like they could add a bit more runway to the NE
11:40 AM Tom_L: they already re'routed a road for what they have
11:40 AM Tom_L: and now industry is building up just past that
11:41 AM CaptHindsight: which airport did they land at? Beech or Jabara?
11:42 AM Tom_L: jabara
11:42 AM Tom_L: i was just gonna say beech is fairly inline with the othes as well
11:42 AM Tom_L: they couldn't build further south due to 96
11:43 AM Tom_L: mostly business jets there
11:45 AM JT-Cave: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACA_Flight_110
11:45 AM Tom_L: the main airport is on the other side of town
11:46 AM CaptHindsight: I was mainly in that area, and near downtown
11:46 AM Tom_L: it's changed quite a bit since then
11:46 AM Tom_L: that interchange is completely different now
11:47 AM Tom_L: new airport, the old one is gone
11:47 AM jymmmm: AH HA I found the damn engineer that designed this shit... https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/bQgcMwEnyhFu6ASuUFrtsn-650-80.jpg.webp
11:48 AM Tom_L: ur cousin?
11:48 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: I thought is was you cousin actually
11:48 AM Tom_L: some days...
11:48 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: sadistic bastard!
11:50 AM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: it fits with the hood closed so, job well done, next adventure
11:51 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: And I even have 40 extra bolts now
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: they always have spares
11:51 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, interesting
11:51 AM CaptHindsight: you collect them for reuse in other places when you run out
11:52 AM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: I got a bucket full of that already
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: I had a car once that the actual service procedure to replace the heater core was to cut an access panel into the inner fender
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: 3 sides to a square, bend out, repalce core, fold back and insert sheet metals screws into corners and putty over gaps
11:58 AM CaptHindsight: or you could pull the engine
12:02 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: that sounds like the designer forgot an access hatch ;)
12:11 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.mauve.plus.com/fascia.jpg related.
12:11 PM SpeedEvil: This was a 'five minute hour job' replacing a heater control panel.
12:11 PM SpeedEvil: 'push the heater control panel behind the dashboard, and then open up the access panel underneath'
12:11 PM SpeedEvil: Fuckers had deleted it.
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: anyone work with tablet presses? https://www.pharmapproach.com/tablet-press/
12:12 PM CaptHindsight: they press powder into a tablet
12:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xggZRckfTE&feature=emb_logo
12:13 PM SpeedEvil: I have thought of one, but I can do ~10 capsules a minute while watching TV, which is fine enough that I haven't investigated further
12:13 PM roycroft: the heater blower in my prius is making loud noises
12:14 PM roycroft: my mechanic told me a new blower is only $120
12:14 PM roycroft: but then he looked up the time
12:14 PM roycroft: and it's 15 hours
12:14 PM CaptHindsight: yeah labor
12:14 PM roycroft: so $2000 to replace it
12:15 PM roycroft: so i dealt with it like i dealt with the bad wheel bearing in the rear that might cost $3k to replace
12:15 PM roycroft: i turn up the radio
12:15 PM roycroft: the pandemic has made me much less inclined to actually fix either problem, because i hardly drive any more
12:16 PM SpeedEvil: More things need to come with grease nipples.
12:16 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: yeah, what cost nearly nothing
12:17 PM CaptHindsight: but they make $$$ later on part wear
12:18 PM CaptHindsight: how many new cars or trucks that use rod ends have grease fittings?
12:19 PM Tom_L: they've figured out how to get 2 repairs from one failure now
12:19 PM Tom_L: the rod end pops off and the car hits another
12:19 PM CaptHindsight: spent 9 hours a few weekends ago replacing all the tie rods and arms in their steering, since one broke on the way over to see me
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: not one from the factory had grease fittings
12:20 PM roycroft: the prius rear wheel bearings are part of an assembly that includes the abs system
12:20 PM CaptHindsight: and this is a top of the line Ford Excursion
12:20 PM roycroft: they cost $850 each, plus the labor
12:20 PM roycroft: but the real problem is that it's almost impossible to remove the old one without damaging the axle
12:21 PM roycroft: so the repair often involves replacing both bearing assemblies and the axle
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: bearings have become another nightmare
12:21 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, the owners are more likely to trade
12:21 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: cant belive that
12:21 PM roycroft: bearings used to be $12
12:21 PM CaptHindsight: with all the counterfeits
12:21 PM roycroft: and take 20 minutes for an inexperienced person to replace
12:21 PM Loetmichel: you cant remove the old bearings with an angle grinder without damaging the axle?
12:22 PM roycroft: loetmichel: i'm going on what my mechanic reported after doing a bunch of research
12:22 PM roycroft: and he was not trying to sell me on a big repair job
12:22 PM roycroft: on the contrary, he's the one who suggested i might just turn the radio up
12:22 PM CaptHindsight: i replaced all 4 sealed wheel bearings on a used car we got, 2 failed <2k miles due to cheap chinese clones
12:23 PM roycroft: i last fueled my car on the 1st of july
12:23 PM roycroft: and i still have a quarter tank of fuel
12:23 PM roycroft: i really don't drive that much any more
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: can you flood the heater box with wd40?
12:24 PM roycroft: but even if he can get the old bearing off without damaging the axle, it's $850 for the replacement + time
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: will have an odor for a few weeks
12:24 PM roycroft: so probably $1500 to replace the bearing
12:24 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: how many miles on the car?
12:25 PM roycroft: 225,000
12:25 PM roycroft: but the engine blew up at 180k miles, and i replaced it with a 60k engine
12:26 PM roycroft: so the engine only has 105k miles on it
12:26 PM roycroft: but it's still on the original battery pack
12:27 PM roycroft: it's in that zone where it can still be a good car if a bunch of money is invested in it, but it's old enough that it might not make sense to fix it
12:27 PM roycroft: if the battery pack fails that's $2.5k
12:28 PM roycroft: it's still fully charging though, which is kind of amazing for being that old
12:28 PM roycroft: toyota definitely have figured out the care and feeding of batteries
12:32 PM CaptHindsight: what are battery recyclers getting for used bad packs?
12:32 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: your source had lots of them
12:43 PM Loetmichel: roycroft: its a lot about the climate, too
12:44 PM Loetmichel: batteries that live their entire life at around 15°C will live nearly forever. as opposed to some that have to cope with -20°C and +50°C over the course of a year
12:45 PM CaptHindsight: how to turn germinated seeds into projectiles that survive soil impacts?
12:45 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: try a capsule/projectile made of crystalized sugar?
12:46 PM Tom_L: fertilizer gelatin armour
12:46 PM Loetmichel: or that
12:46 PM CaptHindsight: seeds are germinated so fragile
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: maybe like a bubble
12:47 PM rmu: CaptHindsight: shoot a hard round 5cm before the seed round
12:47 PM Loetmichel: preferably NOT one made from lead
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: hard shell, soft interior
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: like an egg
12:48 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: seriously: cover the seed with a solid gelatin/sugar projectile
12:48 PM Tom_L: plenty of medical examples of that
12:48 PM Rab: Cardboard darts? Do these have to implant on gravity alone?
12:48 PM Tom_L: gel capsules
12:48 PM Loetmichel: then ehen it rains that will dissolve and free the seed
12:48 PM CaptHindsight: yeah a gelatine that is porous and holds some CO2
12:48 PM rmu: put it in concrete?
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: maybe with a cellulose or sugar shell
12:49 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: think fired from air gun
12:50 PM rmu: seriously, something like bamboo could work
12:50 PM Tom_L: paintball seeds
12:50 PM Loetmichel: s/air gun/potato cannon and you can use "standard" urban gardening bombs
12:50 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: bingo
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: has to ramp up to millions
12:51 PM Tom_L: how many paintballs are out there now?
12:51 PM Tom_L: shouldn't be hard
12:51 PM CaptHindsight: not sure what the range of seeds are yet
12:52 PM Tom_L: smaller caliber
12:52 PM CaptHindsight: the gun is the easy part
12:52 PM Tom_L: is it clay or marsh?
12:52 PM CaptHindsight: hydrogels are easy as well
12:52 PM Loetmichel: why do i suddenly rember the time when our neighbor complained that the "wild flower garden" we had at the shared appartment ruining his english lawn...
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: anywhere trees can grow
12:53 PM Loetmichel: and one of the other residents took a tupper pot, filled it to the brim with hogweed seeds from our garden and threw it over the hedge ;)
12:53 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: heh i did that to someone i knew
12:53 PM Tom_L: paintball confetti from a transport carrier
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: a few packs of wildflower mix in the wind
12:54 PM CaptHindsight: oh man to someones lawn
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: if it was just seeds it would be easier
12:55 PM CaptHindsight: but these are germinated to increase viability of growth
12:56 PM CaptHindsight: similar http://www.cooltropicalplants.com/image-files/xbaggie-method-28.jpg.pagespeed.ic.yaLD7alt_I.jpg
12:57 PM CaptHindsight: shells are split, and there is some growth
12:58 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: you know how fast giant hogweed grows and how resilient that stuff is?
12:58 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, have you characterized the degree of impact the shells can sustain on their own vs viable yield? Like if the little rhizome thing cracks off, is viability reduced or does it just regrow?
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: they are testing now
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: not sure how much the little guys can take
12:59 PM Rab: Is the goal to implant into the ground?
12:59 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: yes
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: mass planting. farming
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: some many millions
01:00 PM Tom_L: what's the optimum planting depth?
01:00 PM rmu: just use 10 times the amount in seeds, ungerminated
01:00 PM CaptHindsight: just below the surface
01:01 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: yes, another option
01:03 PM CaptHindsight: 100-200 million /year
01:03 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: batteryhookup.com is one
01:04 PM CaptHindsight: plants per year not income
01:05 PM rmu: you could put the seed with a "start package" (fertilizer) into a ball made of paper/starch
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: yes that is the idea
01:07 PM rmu: Papier-mâché
01:07 PM CaptHindsight: have to make a million capsules per day
01:08 PM Rab: Can they be frozen?
01:08 PM CaptHindsight: so cure/dry time is an issue
01:09 PM CaptHindsight: don't think so after germination
01:10 PM CaptHindsight: they asked me about UV cure and similar, but I'm looking at the whole process
01:10 PM rmu: UV cure may be dangerous to the seeds
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: nature just drops them and hopes for the best
01:11 PM Rab: I assumed this was for launching downward from an airborne plaform like a drone, is that the case?
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: drone/robot
01:11 PM CaptHindsight: all depends on the terrain
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: aerogel with shell but high volume production
01:12 PM CaptHindsight: low volume is easy
01:13 PM CaptHindsight: gel also keep the heat away from the seed while it's being coated
01:14 PM rmu: forget high volume of germinated seeds. that won't work.
01:14 PM Rab: I see there are empty paintball shells for sale, some in two halves that snap together. But it seems like those are designed with the goal of disintegrating completely on impact, so little/no protection.
01:14 PM rmu: papier-mache could be foamed i think, but not with a seed inside
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: they may be germinated on paper
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: paper towels work
01:15 PM Rab: Anything with moisture seems like it'd speed germination (which is going to proceed regardless), so planting had better happen pretty quickly after encapsulation. Maybe same day.
01:15 PM CaptHindsight: oh yeah
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: thats the catch, limited shelf life
01:16 PM CaptHindsight: dry seeds are easy
01:17 PM rmu: is it really worth it to plant germinated seeds? somebody did some math on it?
01:17 PM CaptHindsight: so it's more sprout
01:18 PM rmu: ("worth it" regarding viability of the planted plant)
01:18 PM CaptHindsight: they say so
01:18 PM rmu: but not considering the delivery mechanism and logistics of it
01:20 PM CaptHindsight: they have been running the numbers
01:23 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, with your inkjet experience, perhaps you have considered a system to coat the seeds with a cushioning gel as they are fired. Or perhaps a foam, low-viscosity when jetted at the passing seed but expanding to cushion the impact. I guess the foam will be stripped away at impact, though, robbing energy from penetration...might not be any better than dropping.
01:25 PM Rab: If you shoot a sphere of non-newtonian starch goo at a surface, do the non-newtonian properties aid penetration?
01:26 PM MrHindsight: the goal seems to be to slightly embed the sprout just below the surface of the soil
01:26 PM SpeedEvil: Rab: NN fluids do not have great 'solid' properies.
01:26 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
01:26 PM CaptHindsight: there we go
01:27 PM CaptHindsight: gel with shell seems best but may be overkill
01:32 PM rmu: papermache balls should work, they can withstand quite a bit if dry
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: sugar coating like an M&M cools pretty quick
01:33 PM rmu: they used to make sabots out of paper mache
01:33 PM rmu: sugar is hygroscopic, that will kill your seedling
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, but dry time vs cooling time
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: sugar would not be in direct contact
01:33 PM CaptHindsight: plus sugar costs $$
01:34 PM rmu: drying could be accelerated with the right amount of infrared and dry air
01:35 PM CaptHindsight: and the gel still protects the seed
01:36 PM rmu: just coat it with cellulose fiber before encapsulation. gel sounds expensive.
01:36 PM rmu: at least the aerogel processes i know are very wasteful and inefficient
01:36 PM rmu: and involve a number of toxic materials
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: didn't mean actual aerogel, but similar
01:37 PM CaptHindsight: I think the main problem they have now is the dry/cure time of the shells
01:38 PM rmu: if you want your aerogel dry and kind of solid you will need to dry it with some kind of supercritical "gas" exchange process
01:38 PM CaptHindsight: but capsules are two parts that slide together
01:39 PM CaptHindsight: why they asked about spray coating and light cured
01:39 PM rmu: you could use superglue to glue them together, that should be biocompatible
01:41 PM rmu: another idea could be PLA, high-powered flash lamps or lasers to melt it for very short period, just enough to glue the shells together
01:41 PM CaptHindsight: and as usual the most questions are about biology
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: oh they can just slide together, that has been worked out for decades
01:42 PM CaptHindsight: they don't need a bond
01:42 PM rmu: kinda like the high-speed laser printers that use high powered UV instead of a fuser roll
01:43 PM rmu: so what are they curing?
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: if they used a coating as the shell
01:43 PM CaptHindsight: the coating will have to cure fast
01:47 PM rmu: and it will have to disappear with moisture
01:47 PM CaptHindsight: some seed expert will have the answer to most questions about what that sprout needs for a day in a capsule
01:49 PM rmu: so you mount your seed encpsulater on some trailer, drive to e.g. scotland, and within one week, the whole of scotland is planted with small baby-trees via drone?
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: yeah similar
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: will work for other crops as well
01:50 PM rmu: a million seeds per day seems a lot considering that you can't keep them for very long
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: the drones can also deal with some pesky birds
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: yeah thats the fun part, high volume
01:50 PM rmu: the birds will come back the next day when the drones are out of battery
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: drone shifts
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: that might be part of it as well
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: birds don't like the spouts, just the seeds
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: so does 10 seeds planted with guardian drone vs 1 sprout and no security work out as well?
01:54 PM rmu: i think that completely depends on the circumstances and kind of plant
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: 500K capsules per day = 350/minute
02:05 PM CaptHindsight: 5.8/sec
02:34 PM Loetmichel: *gnah* WHY? wife just came by: "diswasher is showing 'i20' again!"... now i have to dismantltle the whole thing to get to the waste pump and get the glass shards out AGAIN... if i ever meet the engineer that designed that thing without an mesh infront of the waste pump i'll kill him!
02:41 PM W1N9Zr0: is it a bad idea is to chop the back ledge off a cheap mill vise? https://i.imgur.com/2yqHzNP.jpg mill only has 6" Y travel and the vise sticking out limits it even more
02:46 PM _unreal_: W1N9Zr0, depends on what your going to do
02:46 PM _unreal_: how much force your going to apply
02:46 PM _unreal_: the jaw is driven by a handled acme
02:47 PM _unreal_: That means you can REALLY crank the @#$3 out of it
02:47 PM _unreal_: $#(^
02:47 PM W1N9Zr0: why does that matter? the edge is not sitting on the table, it's hanging off the back
02:47 PM _unreal_: see that vertical FLANGE
02:49 PM _unreal_: That is a structural re-enforcement support flange. you can cut it off but depending on how your going to use that vice. it may not be as rigid as it was
02:49 PM _unreal_: your call
02:49 PM _unreal_: also if there are any falures and someone gets hurt. YOU own it for modifying the device if it fails.
02:49 PM _unreal_: just saying
02:51 PM Rab: I think that lip is not for reinforcement, but to facilitate clamping down the vise in creative ways.
02:52 PM W1N9Zr0: yeah that's what i think too, that or a trough for coolant
02:53 PM Rab: If milling the lip off compromises the structure of the vise, it's not a very well designed tool. OTOH I've heard that those cheap vises have terrible castings with big voids filled with bondo under the paint.
02:54 PM Loetmichel: Rab: that must have been VERY cheap
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: I have a few by Shars, no issues
02:54 PM Loetmichel: had that on those cheap cast aluminium bench vises
02:54 PM Rab: I thought about coolant catcher, but it seems really fiendish to have the channels drain into the table around the t-slot bolts.
02:54 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=539&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- those air holes in cast stuff are called "lunker" in german
02:55 PM Loetmichel: but never in anything cast iron/forged steel
02:55 PM Loetmichel: not even cheap stuff
02:56 PM Rab: I think it was a HaD article about rebuilding a cheap milling vise.
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.shars.com/products/workholding/vise/6-670v-cnc-milling-machine-vise-0-0004-1 works as well as the Kurt
02:57 PM Rab: But I can't find a link.
02:57 PM W1N9Zr0: my vise is a super cheap one. it's from Busy Bee Tools, Canada's equivalent to Grizzly. someone popped the thrust bearing on it once already by using a cheater bar
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: i wonder if the Kurt's at Shars are really made by Kurt?
02:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.shars.com/products/toolholding-workholding/vise?brand=Kurt+Mfg.
03:01 PM Tom_L: i'm pretty happy with my 4" shars
03:02 PM jdh: /topic * < Tom_L> i'm pretty happy with my 4"
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: rmu: spit balls might be best and lowest cost
03:02 PM Tom_L: round?
03:03 PM Tom_L: knowing how to use your tools properly is half the game
03:04 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: s/use/misuse <- ftfy
03:04 PM Loetmichel: :-)
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/r22IKhI3g9M?t=255
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: Capsule Filling Machine
03:22 PM unterhaus_: you can run linux in minecraft now. And run minecraft on that linux
03:22 PM Loetmichel: unterhaus_: at which speeds?
03:23 PM Loetmichel: did they really make an 32bit cpu that can run a linux kernel in minecraft?
03:23 PM unterhaus_: it's using a virtual machine
03:23 PM unterhaus_: so not a minecraft cpu
03:23 PM Loetmichel: aaaw
03:23 PM Loetmichel: thats cheating though
03:24 PM unterhaus_: problem is getting input into the virtual machine, so playing minecraft on it is difficult
03:24 PM unterhaus_: someone played doom in minecraft
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: ah hah, stray dog virus! https://scitechdaily.com/evidence-of-stray-dogs-as-possible-origin-of-covid-19-pandemic/
03:32 PM gregcnc: I almost bought a kurt sidewinder off ebay. was going saw that arm off and use it like normal
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: those 2 matsuura 500's are $1kea or best now
03:34 PM gregcnc: cheap
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: what is scrap steel going for now?
03:35 PM gregcnc: the vise I want cost that much
03:35 PM unterhaus_: with that color, I think it would mess up the feng shui in my shop
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: kurt does make a nice vise but they are also getting premium $$ for brand name
03:36 PM gregcnc: all decent vise are expensive
03:36 PM _unreal_: W1N9Zr0, your call. regardless the vertical flange is a structure re-enforcement flange. a rigidity flange.
03:36 PM gregcnc: I would have bought one without the flange
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: $337/ton
04:08 PM veegee: Damn I love my air hammer
04:08 PM veegee: Very good for concrete
04:09 PM veegee: Only bad thing is the chisel can freely rotate unlike a rotary hammer which can lock chisel
04:10 PM veegee: I could attach a perpendicular handle to the chisel and hold it gently to prevent it from rotating but there must be a better way
04:11 PM Tom_L: get a rotary hammer too
04:11 PM veegee: I have one
04:11 PM veegee: a very good one
04:12 PM Tom_L: i expected nothing less
04:12 PM veegee: But it gets tiring when chiseling out like 100 holes
04:12 PM Tom_L: get some detcord
04:12 PM veegee: the ingersoll rand air hamer I have is soooo much nicer for that
04:12 PM Tom_L: shape charges
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: sounds like a job for "somebody else"
04:12 PM veegee: This is for cleaning out holes in the concrete so I can patch them
04:12 PM veegee: I'm already done like 30%
04:13 PM veegee: no amount of cleaning works to make the concrete patch bond
04:14 PM veegee: the only way is to chisel it to reveal clean concrete and shape it such that the hole is larger at the bottom so the patch can't pop out
04:14 PM veegee: that worked perfectly so far. That and then surface grinding. It's so perfect that you can't tell where the old concrete ends and the patch begins if you run your hand over it
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: new epoxy floor over :)
04:17 PM veegee: Now I can roll over the fixed surface with my swivel caster shop stool without falling over when hitting a hole
04:17 PM veegee: I'll epoxy if I know I'm going to be leasing the unit for a lot longer
04:17 PM veegee: I don't want to invest too much into someone else's property
04:18 PM veegee: small casters really dig right into the holes, it's sooooo annoying
04:18 PM Tom_L: is 'swing' on a chuck considered radius or diameter?
04:19 PM Tom_L: center height is 3 15/16"
04:19 PM Tom_L: i thought swing was radius
04:19 PM veegee: on a lathe it's diameter isn't it?
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: lathe it's dia
04:20 PM Tom_L: makes more sense that way
04:20 PM veegee: Apparently in England, "swing" is radius
04:20 PM veegee: I don't know
04:20 PM veegee: silly white people
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: The Swing measurement is the maximum diameter of material that can be cut or machined on a lathe.
04:24 PM veegee: then there's swing over bed
04:24 PM veegee: and swing behind the bed where there's a bit more space
04:30 PM veegee: Milton G style, highest flow quick connect coupler I can find. Only bad thing is it
04:30 PM veegee: it's really hard to connect/disconnect
04:30 PM veegee: 1/2" NPT, rated for 100 SCFM
04:30 PM veegee: V style is so nice as long as you go for the steel plugs
04:54 PM Tom_L: veegee, i just use the automotive style
04:54 PM veegee: yeah those and industrial style are standard
04:54 PM veegee: the V style is high flow, definitely noticeable
04:55 PM Tom_L: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Air_quick_connect.jpg
04:55 PM veegee: For my blow gun where I need very high flow, I use G style with 1/2" ports
05:00 PM _unreal_: only one part left to build per my CAD drawing
05:04 PM _unreal_: DAMN IT and thats what it was
05:04 PM _unreal_: so one of the parts I built I finished drilling/tapping etc.. and two of my holes didnt line up well. in my cad drawing two fothe holes on one side were off 1mm
05:04 PM _unreal_: no wonder
05:05 PM _unreal_: oh well I oversized the other mounting holes and all was good
06:12 PM jymmmm: 180 degree bent barrel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMx-bfasz5I
06:16 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, don't pull the trigger
06:16 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Just watch the whole video
06:16 PM CaptHindsight: post video if you do
06:16 PM Tom_L: naw
06:16 PM Tom_L: on both counts
06:16 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: it's worth it, really
06:19 PM CaptHindsight: next week, sitting on grenades and plugging a howitzer with your face
06:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAdX0tDnKQ
06:20 PM CaptHindsight: Half-Shot Shooters
06:49 PM roycroft: eek
06:49 PM roycroft: i am reminded of my first week of high school german, way back in the before times, when i was but a lad
06:50 PM roycroft: "ich bin so rot wie ein krebs"
06:50 PM roycroft: it is hotter than blazes, and i've been milling some timbers outside
06:50 PM roycroft: i ended up removing my shirt after a while
06:50 PM roycroft: and i am now regretting that
08:13 PM skunkworks: This 10 dollar quadcopter has paid for itself..
08:13 PM XXCoder: 10 ollar?
08:13 PM XXCoder: damn even my shitty one is 3 times price
08:15 PM skunkworks: heh - this is shitty - but fun to fly for someone that hasn't really gotten into the whole quadcopter thing
08:15 PM XXCoder: mine doent fly well at all
08:15 PM XXCoder: did you do calbrations or what
08:16 PM skunkworks: this was from the local building supply store. The kids are even getting used to flying them (hovering them off the floor.
08:16 PM skunkworks: https://www.menards.com/main/grocery-home/toys/vehicles-remote-control/mini-glow-quadcopter-assorted-colors/dr157pdq/p-1521786474905-c-12335.htm
08:17 PM XXCoder: indoors right?
08:17 PM skunkworks: yes - not tried them outside.
08:18 PM XXCoder: cool. mine isnt safe for indoors and cant handle even slight breeze
08:18 PM skunkworks: it is like 4 inches in diameter.. very small
08:18 PM skunkworks: it has 2 blue and 2 red led's to designate front and back. works well
08:19 PM XXCoder: nice!
08:19 PM skunkworks: the only grip is the spring tention on the control is a bit much. but I have gotten used to it.
08:21 PM XXCoder: i guess its made for kids so its strongly self-reset
08:21 PM XXCoder: i guess if you let go it returns to being still?
08:24 PM skunkworks: eh - it needs a bit of trimming. and after you get used to it - you stop trimming it.
08:24 PM XXCoder: yeah i got mine pretty trimmed in, but it just goes with wind lol
08:24 PM XXCoder: just not strong enough
08:25 PM XXCoder: i once had to force it to crash rather than have it crash somewhere on road
09:17 PM roycroft: abom bought another shaper
09:17 PM roycroft: is he trying to corner the shaper market?
09:18 PM roycroft: for matter is a shaper market even a thing?
09:18 PM XXCoder: dunno though if its declining demend could buy em so cheap
09:20 PM roycroft: i think it would be fun to run a shaper
09:20 PM roycroft: and he seems to have figured out how to make money doing it
09:20 PM roycroft: not by making stuff with it
09:20 PM roycroft: but by making videos of making stuff with it
09:20 PM XXCoder: few shapes simply is very hard to do otherwise
09:20 PM XXCoder: but yeah yt probably is best way lol
09:20 PM XXCoder: got link?
09:21 PM roycroft: i haven't watched it yet - i'm going to in about an hour
09:21 PM roycroft: but it's the subject of his sns tonight:
09:21 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JlktG4lESg
09:23 PM XXCoder: robrenz made new videp
09:23 PM XXCoder: pretty rare to have it so soon since last one
09:23 PM roycroft: people seem to have more time to do stuff like that these days
09:24 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:24 PM roycroft: i put in over six hours on my workbench today
09:24 PM roycroft: i have over 25 hours into it so far
09:25 PM roycroft: not including any of the design time, which is probably at least 100 hours
09:25 PM roycroft: and i have glued exactly two pieces of wood together
09:25 PM XXCoder: making new one or changing setups?
09:25 PM roycroft: i have 7 other parts machined to size, but not finished
09:25 PM roycroft: and most of the other pieces rough cut and rough machined
09:25 PM roycroft: i'm building a new one
09:26 PM roycroft: for hand tool work
09:26 PM roycroft: it's probably going to be 200+ hours by the time i'm done
09:26 PM roycroft: and i'm hoping to have it done by fall
09:26 PM XXCoder: its worth it if you spend thousand or more hours on it
09:27 PM roycroft: so i have a lot of long, busy days ahead of me
09:27 PM XXCoder: (using, not working on)
09:27 PM XXCoder: im tempted to just go and buy a shed
09:27 PM XXCoder: but i have no way to connect power to it
09:29 PM roycroft: i should have worked longer today, but i have to do this part of the work outside, and it was hot
09:29 PM roycroft: and really hard physical work
09:30 PM roycroft: and i'm not a kid any more
09:30 PM XXCoder: yeah we worked on heavily untended yards
09:30 PM XXCoder: its much improved but not done yet
09:30 PM XXCoder: vines is hell
09:30 PM roycroft: it's going to get up to 37 tomorrow
09:31 PM roycroft: i have some yard work that i absolutely must do
09:31 PM roycroft: i'll try to do that early in the morning before the heat hits
09:36 PM roycroft: as far as what to do during the extreme heat, i don't know
09:36 PM roycroft: the library is closed
09:36 PM roycroft: the cinemas are closed
09:36 PM roycroft: most places i go to escape the heat are closed
09:37 PM roycroft: i guess i should just turn the ac on in my garage shop early in the morning, and do stuff in the shop that i can do with the big door closed during the heat of the day
09:37 PM roycroft: i only have ac in my garage shop and in my office, and the ac in my office is failing
09:37 PM roycroft: it's not going to keep up tomorrow
09:39 PM Tom_L: shop ac is on my wish list
09:40 PM roycroft: i have a project that i needed to do this weekend in that shop that will take several hours, but i need a 2" wrench for it
09:40 PM roycroft: and i could not find a 2" wrench anywhere in town
09:40 PM roycroft: i ordered one that was supposed to be here today, but it did not show up
09:40 PM roycroft: so that's out
09:40 PM Tom_L: you'll have so much time in the bench you won't wanna use it
09:40 PM roycroft: i've another one where i need some 7/16" steel rod but i can't get that until monday
09:40 PM roycroft: i have some 1/2"
09:41 PM roycroft: and my lathe is about 1m away from the ac unit
09:41 PM Tom_L: for a 2" wrench i would have likely welded one up
09:41 PM roycroft: i really don't want to turn 1/2" rod down to 7/16"
09:41 PM Tom_L: depending on the use
09:42 PM roycroft: because it will be hard to do - my follow rest needs to be modified before i can mount it on the lathe
09:42 PM roycroft: but i suppose i could work on the follow rest tomorrow
09:42 PM roycroft: and then turn down the rod
09:42 PM Tom_L: i think i'll mow early tomorrow
09:42 PM roycroft: i'd be standing right in front of the ac most of that time, so it's starting to sound like a good plan :)
09:42 PM roycroft: i can't wait to get my new bench built
09:42 PM roycroft: and i will use it and use it and use it
09:43 PM roycroft: this morning i was trying to plane down the glue squeezeout from the glueup i did last night
09:44 PM roycroft: i mounted the part in the vise on my current bench
09:44 PM roycroft: and i swear, 2/3 of my energy was spent flexing the bench, and 1/3 actually planing
09:44 PM roycroft: that will not be the case with the new bench
09:44 PM roycroft: a grizzly bear will not be able to move it
09:56 PM unterhaus: someone on facebook asked for a file so he could cut a confederate flag. I told him to paint the board white and he'd be done
10:07 PM roycroft: it's hard to believe someone would openly ask something like that in a public forum
10:08 PM roycroft: it just shows how out of touch some people are with the real world
10:08 PM Tom_L: if you're from there you have strong feelings that way
10:09 PM roycroft: i spent a lot of time in the south when i was young
10:09 PM roycroft: and that was certainly true then
10:09 PM Tom_L: i'm not from there and don't get it now either
10:09 PM roycroft: but the world has changed an awful lot since then
10:09 PM Tom_L: it's deep rooted history
10:09 PM roycroft: yeah
10:10 PM roycroft: history that goes all the way back to the early 1900s
10:10 PM Tom_L: i visit there occasionally and it's a different place
10:10 PM roycroft: before the 1910s what we call the "confederate flag" was almost unknown
10:10 PM roycroft: and it was never the national flag during the confederacy
10:12 PM Tom_L: flew from 1861 to 1863
10:12 PM roycroft: and the thing is, most people who want to fly that flag because of its history don't know anything about its history
10:12 PM roycroft: no it did not
10:12 PM roycroft: it was never the official flag of the confederacy
10:12 PM roycroft: it was the battle flag of a militia in northern virginia
10:12 PM Tom_L: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
10:12 PM roycroft: the stars and bars was part of one of the official confederate flags
10:12 PM roycroft: but it was never the flag
10:13 PM Tom_L: not the X
10:13 PM roycroft: right
10:13 PM roycroft: the second and third flags contained the stars and bars
10:13 PM roycroft: but on a white background on the second one, and a white and red background on the third one
10:13 PM norias: i think people who fly those flags
10:14 PM norias: should also fly the imperial japanese and nazi flags
10:14 PM Tom_L: 1863 1865
10:14 PM norias: for history, right?
10:14 PM norias: history of motherfuckers that got stomped in to the dirt
10:14 PM roycroft: look again
10:14 PM roycroft: the 1863 flag was white with the stars and bars in the upper left corner
10:14 PM Tom_L: norias, why japanese or german if they're from the south?
10:15 PM Tom_L: whether they won or lost they're still proud
10:15 PM norias: they lost in wars against the US, also
10:15 PM norias: proud losers, eh?
10:15 PM roycroft: even the virginia battle flag, which is what started being used in the early 20th century, was square
10:16 PM roycroft: it was the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 60s that "inspired" the rectangular stars and bars flag that people call "the confederate flag"
10:16 PM roycroft: *that* is why it's an offensive symbol
10:16 PM roycroft: not because it is a symbol of the confederacy
10:16 PM roycroft: because it's not and never was
10:16 PM roycroft: it's a symbol of racism
10:16 PM roycroft: purely
10:17 PM roycroft: it's a symbol of protest against the civil rights movement
10:17 PM roycroft: and i'm sorry
10:17 PM roycroft: but every single person who defends it is a racist
10:17 PM roycroft: period
10:17 PM Tom_L: what rights do we have left?
10:18 PM roycroft: apparently not many
10:18 PM Tom_L: i'm not saying i agree or disagree either way
10:18 PM Tom_L: but they are 'rights'
10:18 PM roycroft: our first amendment rights are gone
10:18 PM Tom_L: we all want equal rights ehh?
10:18 PM Tom_L: or just some of us?
10:18 PM roycroft: protest peacefully and you get teargassed or you get your skull broken by the president's guardia civil
10:19 PM Tom_L: i haven't seen too many peaceful protests lately
10:19 PM * roycroft is sounding political now, and that was not his intent, so he backs off
10:19 PM Tom_L: yeah
10:19 PM roycroft: almost all of them are peaceful
10:19 PM Tom_L: i'm fairly neutral on this
10:20 PM roycroft: when you have 1000 people protesting peacefully and 2 people are violent it's not a riot
10:20 PM roycroft: it's a peaceful protest with two people out of control
10:20 PM Tom_L: no but it gets that way
10:20 PM Tom_L: some just like to fight which makes it bad for those that want to prove a point
10:20 PM roycroft: it wasn't getting that way in portland until the feds startd pouring gasoline on the protests
10:20 PM roycroft: we're on the verge of martial law
10:21 PM roycroft: i'm not sure that most people understand that yet
10:21 PM Tom_L: possibly in areas
10:21 PM roycroft: but we're right on the verge of it
10:21 PM roycroft: yes
10:21 PM roycroft: the president said he is going after "progressive mayors"
10:21 PM roycroft: that is a direct quote
10:21 PM roycroft: he's not going after violent protestors
10:21 PM roycroft: there are barely any
10:21 PM roycroft: he's going after "progressive mayors"
10:23 PM roycroft: he was not a politician when he ran
10:23 PM roycroft: and claims he is not
10:24 PM roycroft: but his actions are the most purely political of any president in my fairly long lifetime, without a doubt
10:24 PM roycroft: even moreso than nixon
10:24 PM XXCoder: and most corrupt
10:24 PM roycroft: possibly
10:24 PM roycroft: but there have been a lot of corrupt presidents
10:24 PM XXCoder: of course
10:25 PM Tom_L: we know what we read and that is generally skewed
10:25 PM roycroft: and if i'm honest, i don't care about that part so much right now
10:25 PM roycroft: i go by first hand information sources as much as possible
10:25 PM roycroft: i.e. not what is reported about the president
10:25 PM XXCoder: tom yeah I try unskew and yes as best soure as possible
10:25 PM roycroft: but the words coming out of his mouth
10:26 PM XXCoder: everyone has bias. yes myself too
10:27 PM XXCoder: one thing im laughing about and also sad is that people who collect guns in case goverment starts arresting people without indentifcation into anoymnous vans are silent
10:27 PM roycroft: and when he was asked why he's sending federal troops to albuquerque he said he's going after progressive mayors
10:27 PM Tom_L: those sales are definitely at a high
10:27 PM roycroft: that's not something i heard reported
10:28 PM roycroft: that's a sound clip i heard of him on the radio
10:28 PM roycroft: hard to skew that
10:28 PM XXCoder: roy heard some stormtroops was bragging they gassed a mayor
10:28 PM roycroft: yes, they gassed the mayor of portland
10:28 PM XXCoder: though far less certain on relibability
10:28 PM XXCoder: they did. my question is on bragging
10:28 PM roycroft: ted wheeler was teargassed thursday night
10:29 PM roycroft: oh
10:29 PM roycroft: i don't know about any bragging about it
10:29 PM roycroft: i don't care about that
10:29 PM roycroft: if the president brags that he had mayor wheeler teargassed i'd care about that
10:29 PM roycroft: but the people who did it
10:29 PM roycroft: i don't care
10:29 PM roycroft: they'll be dealt with eventually
10:31 PM roycroft: but getting back to the original topic
10:31 PM * Tom_L forgot what that was
10:32 PM Tom_L: oh. white paint
10:32 PM roycroft: i'll easily concede that many, perhaps most southerners today are of the mistaken belief that that flag is a symbol of their heritage that dates back to the civil war
10:32 PM roycroft: or believed at least
10:33 PM roycroft: and until fairly recently one could forgive their ignorance on the matter
10:33 PM Tom_L: most kids today don't know the why about much of anything
10:34 PM roycroft: but in the last few years it's been pointed out countless times that the flag they call the confederate flag was never a real flag, but is based on the virginia battle flag, and came into being in its current form as a protest of the civil rights movement
10:34 PM roycroft: there's no way any non-comatose person would not know that at this point
10:35 PM XXCoder: theres always that poetic quote of flag designer
10:35 PM roycroft: so i'll stand by my statement that anyone who advocates for displaying it as a symbol of pride is nothing more than a proud racist
10:35 PM roycroft: it belongs in museums now
10:36 PM Tom_L: so should we paint our flag with 51 stars too?
10:36 PM roycroft: when we admit our 51st state, sure
10:36 PM XXCoder: theres one house next to mine that has 13 star flag
10:36 PM XXCoder: wonder which states they dont consider a state
10:36 PM XXCoder: WA come in as state rather late too, way behind those states
10:36 PM roycroft: that's a legitimate historic flag that is not a symbol of hate
10:37 PM XXCoder: this type https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Flag_of_the_United_States_%281777-1795%29.svg
10:37 PM roycroft: the "confederate flag" is nothing more than a symbol of hae, and always has been since its invention
10:37 PM XXCoder: roy yeah though i wonder why though
10:37 PM roycroft: aah, the so-called betsy ross flag
10:38 PM roycroft: that's the most common 13 star flag these days
10:38 PM roycroft: but it wasn't the most common one at the beginning of our republic
10:38 PM XXCoder: the frowny one https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41JbuiYAMnL._AC_SX425_.jpg
10:39 PM roycroft: the battle of bennington flag
10:41 PM roycroft: tom_l: please understand i'm not trying to make any statements about southern pride or southern heritage or anything at all like that
10:42 PM Tom_L: it really doesn't affect me either way
10:42 PM roycroft: i'm just pointing out that the flag that people call "the confederate flag" has absoultely nothing to do with any of that
10:43 PM Tom_L: unlike sheldon, i'm not a flag person and don't know the history of alot of them
10:44 PM XXCoder: i learned reasonable enough to know some history but not all of it
10:44 PM XXCoder: enough to know about orginal flag, its modified version with red side, and war flag
10:45 PM Tom_L: XXCoder, kid interviewed Thur and got a good call this evening
10:45 PM Tom_L: hope it goes that well for you
10:45 PM roycroft: the reason the second confederate flag was abandoned is becasue there was so much white on it it was often mistaken for a flag of surrender
10:45 PM XXCoder: awesome! :D
10:45 PM roycroft: so they added the red stripe to differentiate it
10:46 PM XXCoder: yep
10:46 PM Tom_L: also when i was out talking to my bud i found out more about that accident at a local shop
10:47 PM roycroft: i'm not a vexillogist by any means, but i have studied history (i almost majored in it) and have picked up a fair amount of knowledge about flags over the years
10:47 PM XXCoder: tom "shop" and "accient" dont go together well. what happened?
10:47 PM Tom_L: guy was installing some laser scanner or something on the mill and the spindle dropped on him
10:47 PM Tom_L: they didn't block it up
10:48 PM Tom_L: this was a few weeks back
10:48 PM roycroft: that doesn't sound good
10:49 PM Tom_L: https://www.kansas.com/news/local/article233356897.html
10:50 PM XXCoder: :(
10:50 PM XXCoder: machines dont forgive mistakes
10:50 PM roycroft: odd that the spindle was not secured
10:50 PM Tom_L: i don't know all the details
10:51 PM Tom_L: i know you block a spindle if the power is off before you crawl iin
10:52 PM CaptHindsight: was the machines name Carrie?
10:52 PM Tom_L: i was out helping my bud with his machines
10:53 PM Tom_L: trying to pull the parameter files from one so he could fix the other one
10:53 PM Tom_L: they're identical with consecutive serial numbers
10:54 PM Tom_L: somehow he lost all of it in the other machine and needs to replace the main board
10:54 PM Tom_L: they're pretty old
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: i recall trying to fix mazaks and they would not even talk to you if they thought you were a 3rd party
10:55 PM Tom_L: this has a yasnac control
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: they would even say they had to call you back and then try to reach you through the comapny switchboard
10:56 PM Tom_L: some take proprietary seriously
10:56 PM CaptHindsight: sorry we are too greedy to help you
10:56 PM roycroft: i'm really feeling the effects of the sun from today
10:57 PM roycroft: i'm definitely going to have to take it easy tomorrow
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: UV is real
10:57 PM roycroft: yup
10:57 PM roycroft: and usually by this time of year i'm more accustomed to it
10:58 PM roycroft: but with so many things closed i haven't been going out hiking/camping/etc
10:58 PM Tom_L: i wish i could find a manual for it showing the parameters' purposes
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: I'm hardly tan this year
10:58 PM Tom_L: i sit here too much to be very tan
10:58 PM roycroft: my forearms and legs are
10:59 PM roycroft: and my face, of course
10:59 PM roycroft: but my back and chest have not seen much sun this year
10:59 PM roycroft: until today
10:59 PM Tom_L: aloe and plenty of water
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: just watched Greyhound, reminded me of the old WWII movies only with a bit less character development
11:00 PM roycroft: it is supposed to get down to 12 tonight, so it will be nice in the morning
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: still good though
11:00 PM roycroft: and it looks like it won't hit 30 until 1pm
11:00 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, did you ever watch that kennedy thing?
11:00 PM Tom_L: almost forgot about that
11:00 PM roycroft: so i can get some stuff done in the morning, and camp out in the shop with the ac during the afternoon
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: not yet, haven't been in the mood for that
11:01 PM roycroft: i've been meaning to watch greyhound
11:01 PM CaptHindsight: the past 6 weeks here were mostly 90F days and humid, now the next 10 say 80F \0/
11:02 PM roycroft: it got up to 29 today
11:02 PM roycroft: 37 tomorrow
11:02 PM roycroft: that's why i spent today working in the sun, not tomorrow
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: 505 humidy during the day, 130% at night
11:02 PM CaptHindsight: 50% day
11:02 PM roycroft: i almost put up an ez-up
11:02 PM roycroft: i probably should have, in retrospect
11:03 PM CaptHindsight: I've been working mostly with the doors closed and AC on
11:04 PM roycroft: i wonder if i can turn down that rod a little bit at a time
11:04 PM roycroft: sticking it out of the chuck incrementally, and cutting close to the chuck
11:04 PM CaptHindsight: mosquitoes have been bad, and I blow up with golf ball size bites
11:04 PM roycroft: it does not need to be precise
11:04 PM roycroft: but it needs to be smooth
11:05 PM roycroft: the rods need to be 18" long, which is why i'm concerned
11:05 PM CaptHindsight: heh, measured my rotors today , just over 12", lathe is only 12" swing
11:05 PM roycroft: for that diameter (0.4375") and that length, i really need a follow rest to do it properly
11:05 PM roycroft: otherwise it will start whipping around
11:05 PM CaptHindsight: i may mill the rotors and use as spares
11:06 PM roycroft: or grind away a bit of the lathe bed :)
11:07 PM CaptHindsight: had a project a few years ago where the matsuura was 2" short in X
11:08 PM CaptHindsight: always end up with something just larger than my machines
11:08 PM roycroft: put the rotors in the freezer and shrink them before you turn them
11:10 PM roycroft: you can get a brake lathe on cl for $150 almost any day of the week
11:11 PM roycroft: which is more than the cost of new rotors, unless you have something like a bmw
11:11 PM roycroft: but not more than a lifetime's worth of rotors
11:11 PM roycroft: you can probably buy one, turn your rotors, and then sell it for what you paid for it
11:12 PM roycroft: or more, if you make a good deal
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, brake lathes are often on craigslist
11:12 PM CaptHindsight: around here usually for >$1500
11:13 PM roycroft: i see several for $500 here right now
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: never low, but maybe now with all the closings
11:13 PM roycroft: but i see them for $150 quite often
11:13 PM CaptHindsight: lowest is $800
11:14 PM CaptHindsight: https://chicago.craigslist.org/search/sss?sort=priceasc&query=brake%20lathe
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: i can get a whole matssura 500 for <$1k
11:15 PM CaptHindsight: working well
11:17 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: was it The Last Word on the Assassination ?
11:17 PM CaptHindsight: 2014
11:17 PM Tom_L: i don't recall now
11:20 PM Tom_L: Jun 26 21:08:46 <Tom_L> CaptHindsight, pretty sure it was JFK: The Smoking Gun 2013
11:20 PM Tom_L: on prime
11:21 PM CaptHindsight: have it bookmarked now, thanks
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: well with some much evidence missing/lost there is room for other theories
11:24 PM CaptHindsight: why it's still locked up after 57 years is also strange
11:25 PM Tom_L: depends how you look at it
11:25 PM CaptHindsight: missing, lost, still secret
11:25 PM Tom_L: they wanted to protect the secret service reputation
11:25 PM CaptHindsight: obvously they don't want the facts getting out
11:25 PM Tom_L: no
11:26 PM Tom_L: i'm not sure what i think but it was compelling
11:28 PM roycroft: the kennedy assassination conspiracy theories will go away after the vince foster conspiracy theories go away
11:28 PM roycroft: in other words, not in any of our lifetimes