#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 18 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:18 AM pink_vampire: hi
12:24 AM XXCoder: hey pink
12:24 AM XXCoder: did you see video link? heh
02:26 AM pink_vampire: yeah
02:26 AM XXCoder: dumb eh
02:40 AM pink_vampire: screw driver..
02:44 AM pink_vampire: I need a reamer
02:44 AM pink_vampire: 1/8"
05:08 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:09 AM XXCoder: yo
06:51 AM Tom_L: morning
06:51 AM XXCoder: yo
06:52 AM Tom_L: 76 / 96 today
06:52 AM XXCoder: 75f peak
06:53 AM XXCoder: it will get hotter across week "yay"
06:53 AM JT-Cave: 95 here
07:04 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, chickens are gettin big
07:14 AM JT-Cave: aye
07:15 AM XXCoder: id be surpised if they didnt
07:20 AM * JT-Cave struggles to find a simple example of loading a text file into a div
08:25 AM pcw_home: its been about 55 at night for the last two weeks or so so our tomatoes are in suspended animation
08:28 AM * JavaBean offers to rehome pcw's tomatos... notes its been dropping down to 75 overnight here
08:30 AM JT-Cave: we could use some cooler nights
08:32 AM pcw_home: I like this weather but tomatoes don't (the scarlet runner beans do, we have about 15 lbs in the frig even though we have been eating them almost every day
08:33 AM JavaBean: can you do the "baling wire" and "saran wrap" trick to keep them from getting too cool at night?
08:34 AM JavaBean: or are they just "too big" for that?
08:42 AM pcw_home: They are pretty big now
08:43 AM JavaBean: get a few of those "drill in" dog chain holders... the ones for "chaining your dog" in the back yard... they are rather easy to use, an a "carbiner" on a snap to hook to the bailing wire at a "strong point"
08:44 AM JavaBean: s/snap/"short length of cable/rope/chain/etc"
08:45 AM JavaBean: when you are done, the thing might float a lil. but it shouldn't disapear
08:46 AM pcw_home: They are along a fence so I do have some support from above
08:48 AM JavaBean: now you just gotta "source" some "bailing wire" and clear plastic wrap
08:54 AM pcw_home: Yeah I think I will give that a try (we have at least another couple weeks of 50s night temps)
08:54 AM skunkworks: pcw_home: if the encoder dpll was set too low - would the axis sound noisy if the dpll got lost?
08:56 AM pcw_home: If set too low "baseline drift" can cause occasional large timing errors (just plot error_us to see what going on)
08:56 AM skunkworks: it was set to -50 but the latency is 100+
08:57 AM skunkworks: Yes - I will. It was odd - every once in a great while the axis would get really loud - but no following error.
08:58 AM skunkworks: while moving
08:59 AM pcw_home: In this case it would get out of sync by about one thread time so will cause a following error or velocity*servo_thread_period
08:59 AM skunkworks: hmm.
08:59 AM skunkworks: ok
08:59 AM skunkworks: then I don't know what that was
09:00 AM pcw_home: I would halscope the dpll_error_us
09:00 AM skunkworks: I will
09:00 AM JavaBean: just remember pcw, doesn't have to be fancy, doesn't have to be expensive, doesn't have to be "bailing wire"... hell you could use that cheap metal strip from lowes/homedepot and rivit it at the joint at the top... just gots to hold some saran wrap around you plant without touching the plant(idealy)
09:03 AM pcw_home: I have a lot of that black iron wire used for re-bar tying, and some cheap clear shower curtains, maybe that would work
09:09 AM JavaBean: yeah, that should work... only mentioned saran wrap because its cheap, shower curtains would work though(especially if its what you have "on hand")
09:11 AM * JavaBean preps to head off and do battle at the post office, hopes his packages are available and he doesn't have to stand in line for 3 days again
09:46 AM perry_j1987: when would you want to use a single point thread mill vs thread form mill
09:46 AM perry_j1987: btw morning everyone
09:52 AM SpeedEvil: Some materials don't meaningfully form, for example cast iron
09:52 AM SpeedEvil: Or hardened steel
09:58 AM roycroft: a form tool will require a lot more power than a single point tool
09:59 AM SpeedEvil: And deflect more with the same class of tooling.
09:59 AM roycroft: yes
10:00 AM roycroft: you can take a tool blank and grind a single point thread tool to any profile you want in a matter of a minute or two
10:00 AM veegee: I wish my cheapo calipers would show fractional inches to the nearest 1/32 instead of 1/128, or have it selectable
10:01 AM veegee: half the time I use it to visually hunt for something like 3/8" to visually compare it to 1/2"
10:02 AM perry_j1987: ty
10:15 AM veegee: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B005F7Q82C does this look suitable for compressed air line usage?
10:15 AM veegee: Almost all the one way "check" valves I see are for "fluids", but gas is technically a fluid
10:18 AM roycroft: that item states that it is suitable for gases
10:19 AM roycroft: duda energy make good stuff
10:19 AM roycroft: they're a small company who manufacture in the usa
10:19 AM roycroft: and my experience with them is that their stuff does what they claim it does
10:21 AM veegee: roycroft wow thanks. I thought it was one of those sum-ting-wong brands if you know what I mean
10:21 AM roycroft: all that said, gas molecules are generally much smaller than liquid molecules (for substances at room temperature)
10:21 AM roycroft: the guy is in georgia
10:21 AM roycroft: since the molecules are smaller it's harder to seal them
10:22 AM roycroft: and if you're running at high pressure you may not get a perfect seal
10:22 AM roycroft: iirc you have a fairly beefy compressor
10:22 AM veegee: Yeah. For my usage, I'm not worried about a perfect seal. This is going to sit between the "wet" tank and "dry" tank to prevent backflow into the air dryer and coalescing filter
10:22 AM roycroft: if i were you i'd contact the guy and give him your specs
10:22 AM roycroft: and see what he says
10:22 AM veegee: yeah I'll do that thanks
10:23 AM veegee: although small leak is no problem. The purpose is to protect the coalescing filter and air dryer from high backflow if that were to happen for whatever reason
10:23 AM roycroft: right
10:24 AM veegee: I can also test it very easily. Stick it backwards onto an air hose and put a balloon on the other end and see if the balloon inflates overnight
10:24 AM roycroft: i have one of their plate chillers for my brew system - that's how i know the company
10:25 AM josh is now known as Guest72532
10:26 AM roycroft: a lot of breweries use them for their pilot systems
10:27 AM roycroft: looking at his other items, he's selling a lot of valves and other general plumbing components now
10:27 AM roycroft: that stuff may be imported - and if so, the check valve may be as well
10:28 AM roycroft: that is, the product line has exanded so much it is likely that it's not all manufactured in house any more
10:28 AM roycroft: however, even if some of it is imported it's probably good stuff - the guy takes pride in his products
10:29 AM veegee: Yeah that's what I'm hoping
10:29 AM roycroft: at the very least, you have somene who speaks a variant of english (southern) to deal with if there are any problems
10:30 AM veegee: Yeah I avoid "no spek da gud engrish" as much as possible
10:33 AM Tom_L: they wouldn't send you inferior products. after all you're feeding their children
10:34 AM veegee: Going to do some real world air consumption tests for fun
10:34 AM veegee: Time to brush up on calculus/integration
10:35 AM veegee: and PV = nRT gas law stuff
10:49 AM Tom_L: with that much tank your compressor will probably run once a week
10:50 AM veegee: Tom_L some of my usage can make it run constantly
10:51 AM veegee: Air blow gun, abrasive blasting, that kind of thing
10:51 AM Tom_L: hvlp will
10:51 AM veegee: Now this is really weird. According to this calculator: https://www.rapidairproducts.com/technical-faq/flow-rate-calculator at 150 psi, 1/2" hose, 100ft, theoretical CFM is 25
10:51 AM veegee: But with my air blow gun, I'm 100% sure that it's almost double that
10:52 AM veegee: Because my compressor does 50 CFM easily and constantly holding the blow gun open at 150 psi keeps the pressure dial in the same position, meaning that air in = air out
10:52 AM Tom_L: i use 3/8" coil for most hand tools
10:52 AM Tom_L: i can get it in bulk and cut to size
10:52 AM veegee: so how is their CFM calculator off by 100%
10:53 AM veegee: Doesn't make sense
10:53 AM veegee: I'm using flexzilla 100 ft 1/2" hose straight form the tank as an experiment. No pressure regulator or anything else in the way
10:54 AM veegee: the pressure gauge on the tank holds steady at 150 psi when the compressor is on and the pump is rated for 50 CFM
10:55 AM veegee: Not even using quick connect couplers. Just NPT hose barbs
10:55 AM Tom_L: can you re'dry the desiccant in those driers?
10:55 AM veegee: yes
10:55 AM Tom_L: oven?
10:55 AM veegee: I do it all the time, made a special oven controller for it
10:55 AM veegee: yes
10:56 AM veegee: make sure to keep it just above 100ºC
10:56 AM Tom_L: how hot/long?
10:56 AM veegee: Like 105, until the colour changes
10:56 AM veegee: I use the colour changing desiccant
10:56 AM veegee: If you go too hot, it will melt and destroy the desiccant
10:56 AM veegee: I put a fan in the oven and a custom temperature controller to get really even 105ºC inside with no hot spots
10:57 AM veegee: Works absolutely perfectly
10:57 AM Tom_L: what's a good brand? campbell hausfeld?
10:57 AM veegee: Or just buy an expensive regenerating dual tower desiccant dryer. It does the same thing either with dry air or a heater.
10:57 AM veegee: Anything will work
10:58 AM veegee: now hear me out, this is a very cringy video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7B5imLeYv0
10:58 AM veegee: But this girl is very smart. Her dad is an engineer
10:58 AM veegee: They did their own high flow compressor by paralleling lots of cheap compressors and staggered compressor power on
10:58 AM veegee: for abrasive blasting her rusty VW beetle
10:59 AM Tom_L: no sound on this pc
10:59 AM Tom_L: have to look later
10:59 AM veegee: Then she built her own desiccant air dryer
10:59 AM veegee: It's the exact same principle as the campbell hausfeld dryer, but much larger and much higher flow
11:00 AM veegee: But yeah the CH one is good: https://www.amazon.ca/Campbell-Hausfeld-Cleaner-Dryer-PA208503AV/dp/B0009KN9T0
11:00 AM veegee: This is the desiccant I use: https://www.amazon.ca/Dry-Indicating-Desiccant-Industry-Standard/dp/B01I5Y9H6A/
11:01 AM veegee: Very high quality. Easy to see when its getting saturated. Turns from orange to blue. Put in the oven and magically turns back orange every time as long as you're careful and don't overheat it. Goal is to boil off the water so literally as close to the boiling point of water as you can get it to avoid overheating the desiccant
11:03 AM veegee: If I forgot to mention it, very heavy emphasis on not overheating in the oven. Ask me how I know
11:04 AM veegee: My custom controller does a very gentle gradual heat up and has multiple thermocouples spaced out inside the oven to make sure there are no hot spots. Also have a fan in the oven
11:05 AM Tom_L: i did a toaster oven for solder reflow
11:05 AM Tom_L: it has a 'bake off' cycle
11:05 AM veegee: desiccant is much more sensitive than reflow soldering
11:06 AM Tom_L: what about oil dry?
11:06 AM Tom_L: kitty litter
11:06 AM veegee: an expensive pool of molten desiccant is a very depressing thing to see
11:06 AM veegee: I wouldn't put cat litter in an air system ever. Insane amount of dust
11:06 AM Tom_L: filter pads above it
11:06 AM Tom_L: but yeah that's what i was wondering
11:06 AM veegee: I don't think you can regenerate that
11:07 AM Loetmichel: hmm, any fridge mechanics here? long compressor runs and ice buildup in the fridge section at juust above "off" setting on the thermostat but still occasionally switching off on its own: defective thermostat or lost coolant? (i.E.: buying new thermostat or buying new fridge, replacing the coolant wouldnt be cost effective)
11:07 AM Tom_L: it's cheap enough i wouldn't care
11:07 AM veegee: It's not nearly as drying as the desiccant I linked you to
11:07 AM veegee: I have a cat haha, I know
11:07 AM veegee: Loetmichel my fridge does the exact same thing, shitty controller
11:08 AM veegee: I fixed it by adding my own temperature controller wired directly to the compressor
11:08 AM veegee: Also I have fans in the fridge to prevent cold spots
11:08 AM Loetmichel: veegee: no controller. just a mechanical thermostat.
11:08 AM veegee: I know, bypass it with a controller
11:08 AM veegee: Fridge thermostats are generally really shitty
11:09 AM veegee: This is what I use for the fridge: https://www.amazon.ca/ITC-308-Thermostat-num%C3%A9rique-contr%C3%B4le-temp%C3%A9rature/dp/B011296704
11:09 AM Loetmichel: no, its not doing that since we bought it, its just developed that behaviour in the last few months. its 17 years old btw
11:09 AM veegee: oh
11:09 AM veegee: I highly doubt refrigerant loss. If that happened, it wouldn't even get that cold to ice
11:10 AM veegee: my bet is thermostat failure
11:10 AM Tom_L: did you blow the dust from the cooling fins / fan?
11:10 AM Tom_L: if it has one
11:10 AM veegee: I'm like 99% sure thermostat failure. And yeah clean out the heat exchanger parts
11:11 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: i did not, but the fins look fairly clean. not THAT much dust and cobwebs on it
11:11 AM Tom_L: they're always full of lint
11:11 AM Loetmichel: (as far as i can see, its built into the cupboard)
11:11 AM Tom_L: likely not the problem but will help efficiency
11:12 AM gregcnc: I have a dehumidifier that old, which has started freezing up this year
11:12 AM Loetmichel: and it has no fans. neither internall nor on the external heat exchanger
11:13 AM veegee: Yeah swap the thermostat
11:13 AM Tom_L: likely the cheapest thing to test first anyway
11:17 AM gregcnc: how much water does desiccant absorb? I mean how many cubic feet of air? are you removing water with any other method?
11:17 AM veegee: gregcnc through a refrigerated dryer first which gets rid of most of the water
11:17 AM veegee: and desiccant absorbs A LOT
11:17 AM gregcnc: Ok
11:22 AM jymmmm: coil on plug diag - pretty good video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4r5OcHN5Lg
11:26 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: our actual freezer is about 28 now... still running nicely though and not that energy hungry either... talk about old "bauknecht" quality ;)
11:27 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: silica gel pearls can absorb about 2 times their weight in water IIRC
11:27 AM Loetmichel: before saturated
11:27 AM gregcnc: apparenty it's 40%
11:27 AM Loetmichel: weight or volume?
11:28 AM gregcnc: mass
11:28 AM Loetmichel: ah
11:28 AM Loetmichel: so weight. interesting. where did i get the 2 times from?
11:28 AM gregcnc: sometimes you get a good product. AC unit at my parents house was installed in 1986.
11:29 AM Tom_L: nowdays: s/sometimes/once it a great while
11:30 AM gregcnc: I replaced a capacitor last year
11:37 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: right
11:41 AM * JavaBean grumbles, back from town... poor again
11:41 AM Tom_L: i would avoid town
11:42 AM Tom_L: jymmmm, what year did they start using coil on plug?
11:42 AM JavaBean: the real kick to the wallet was the water delivery truck... owed him 95$ and wasn't expecting to see him at my "neighbors" on a saturday
11:47 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: IDK, but my 2001 Ford Expedition has them
11:48 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: And as I understand it Ford ECM doens't throw a code much of the time
11:48 AM jymmmm: even when it should be
11:48 AM gregcnc: for a misfire?
11:48 AM jymmmm: yeah, and the like
11:49 AM gregcnc: I think most have conditions where a misfire is ignored
11:50 AM jymmmm: Doens't help when there's a bad coil, and it happens often enough that it really should
11:50 AM jymmmm: the VERY first time it hapened, it threw a misfire code, replaced the coil, fixed it, then another coil went bad a week later.
11:51 AM gregcnc: at 20yo theya re all on the last legs
11:51 AM jymmmm: years alter, another coil goes bad,but NO code
11:51 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Nope, more like 6 years
11:52 AM jymmmm: at the time
11:52 AM JavaBean: sounds like anothe quality FORD product
11:53 AM gregcnc: a lot fo coils do this
11:53 AM jymmmm: so, I've had to replace 1 or 2 coils, three times so far, now suspect a weak coil this time
11:54 AM jymmmm: IF it is weak and dumping fuel, WTH isn't the O2 sensor picking it up is beyond me
11:54 AM jymmmm: it's got 4 O2 sensors, eeeesh
11:55 AM gregcnc: it probably is
11:55 AM jymmmm: and just passed smog - shrug-
11:55 AM JavaBean: the reason i said "quality ford product", greg, is because the computer stopped tossing codes when it should.... like when an o2 sensor is getting assaulted by fuel, AGAIN
11:55 AM gregcnc: if it was really bad, you'd get a code
11:55 AM gregcnc: if it doesn't happen often enoguh or long enough you won't see it
11:56 AM JavaBean: or the computer stopped caring
11:56 AM gregcnc: i've read just enough about Bosch ECU
11:56 AM jymmmm: I'm getting around 10 MPG and suck power, it should
11:57 AM JavaBean: if it were anything but a ford, i would suggest inspecting the o2 sensors for "un reported" issues
11:57 AM gregcnc: how many O2 have you replaced?
11:57 AM jymmmm: none
11:59 AM jymmmm: I don't just replace parts till stuff goes away, that can get expensive and not resolve anything.
12:00 PM gregcnc: as long as gas is cheap enough
12:00 PM jymmmm: and it's not
12:01 PM jymmmm: I don't want to GUESS at what the issue(s) are.
12:01 PM gregcnc: I have a honda van tht's doesn't do what it used to. but i'm down to guessing
12:01 PM JavaBean: why not, that's what the dealer does
12:02 PM JavaBean: ford and chevy... having read their "factory service manual" i won't be getting another of either
12:03 PM jymmmm: That's why I linked that video, it was pretty good diag, and found 2nd coil failing too.
12:04 PM jymmmm: all just using a current probe on a scope
12:04 PM JavaBean: guess you got lucky, my old cobalt had a code 420. so, cat. that would have been cheaper
12:05 PM gregcnc: quite a few cars will run with no code, then throw a 0420
12:05 PM gregcnc: indicating there has been a long term problem
12:05 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: It just wants soem weed
12:06 PM JavaBean: meh, 0420 is a bitch to clear. it takes forever for that diagnostic
12:06 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: So now you have another use for your scope =)
12:13 PM jymmmm: Thermal camera for diag... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO12NiE5g1E
12:15 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.teledyneimaging.com/en/aerospace-and-defense/products/sensors-overview/infrared-hgcdte-mct/hawaii-2rg/
12:15 PM * SpeedEvil wishes this wasn't $250K.
12:18 PM gregcnc: those BMW coils... they will misfire morning after rain or several days of no driving when they start going bad
12:18 PM gregcnc: never had one give up completely
12:29 PM jymmmm: OH, this is slick... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kvYjYT1_mM
12:30 PM gregcnc: yeah don't clear codes if trying to fix something
12:31 PM jymmmm: WEll, that it's being diag at the fuse box
12:31 PM jymmmm: And especally when no codes are being thrown
12:32 PM gregcnc: doesn't mean the data isn't there. the problem is accessing it if you don't have shop grade tools
12:33 PM jymmmm: HEll, he used a T-Pin
12:37 PM _unreal_: hello
12:37 PM _unreal_: been cleaning a lot
12:38 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, do the coil on plug fail sooner than the older conventional coil?
12:39 PM Tom_L: it eliminates the high voltage wire but puts it closer to the heat and heat kills
12:39 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Seems to been a known issue on fords. I've replaced 5 so far of it's lifetime, suspect more now, more liekly weak coil(s) now.
12:40 PM Tom_L: i just bought 3 2020 hondas that have them is why i wondered
12:40 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: But that last video I just linked to, look at the "SEE MORE" he mentons hondas too
12:41 PM Tom_L: i'd never seen them before until you mentioned it here and i knew what they were then
12:42 PM gregcnc: coil on plug isn't that new
12:42 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: At least on Ford's, don't expect a code to always been thrown if there is an issue with them
12:42 PM Tom_L: i haven't had to work on an engine for some time now though
12:42 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: That's why I'm sharing these videos, it's hard to find good diag info like this.
12:43 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: I've been loking for going on 3 years now.
12:43 PM gregcnc: when was the misfire happening?
12:44 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: what makes you think it's a misfire?
12:44 PM jymmmm: s/think/believe/
12:44 PM gregcnc: so bad coil, but it still fired?
12:44 PM Tom_L: bad may still fire but weak
12:45 PM gregcnc: unlikely
12:45 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: see, this is the "guessing" I was tlaking about.
12:45 PM Tom_L: just like jymmmm's ac fan
12:45 PM Tom_L: it still worked right up until it died
12:45 PM Tom_L: just not as good as before
12:45 PM Tom_L: both are copper windings
12:46 PM jymmmm: Right, but we measured the coild on the motor too
12:46 PM jymmmm: so we knew it was weak/failing
12:46 PM gregcnc: so that's my question how did you know there was a problem?
12:46 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: 10MPG and loss of power.
12:46 PM gregcnc: and this fixed it?
12:47 PM Tom_L: could be injectors
12:47 PM jymmmm: No, the problem still exists. I'm trying to diag WHAT/WHERE the problem(s) are, not just guess
12:47 PM gregcnc: so ti was still a guess
12:47 PM Tom_L: my old s10, if the thermostat went bad it ran like crap
12:47 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: ?
12:47 PM gregcnc: you found a problem, fixed it and the problem is still present
12:48 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: I haven't found or fixed anything, I just know there is a issue
12:48 PM gregcnc: so it is or isn't misfiring?
12:49 PM jymmmm: I suspect a weak coil, but that has yet to be determined.
12:50 PM jymmmm: or coil(s)
12:50 PM gregcnc: oh I thought you determined
12:50 PM jymmmm: If there are weak coils, that wuld explain raw fuel being dumped and the poor milage and power
12:51 PM gregcnc: and it passed smog in CA?
12:51 PM jymmmm: No, not yet. It's what I'm researchign now, and thus sharing those videos
12:51 PM jymmmm: Yes
12:51 PM gregcnc: on a dyno?
12:51 PM jymmmm: No
12:52 PM jymmmm: 2000 and newer are from the cmputer only, no tailpipe or dyno.
12:52 PM gregcnc: lol then you're lucky there is no CEL.
12:53 PM jymmmm: CEL???
12:53 PM gregcnc: check engine light
12:53 PM gregcnc: code
12:54 PM Tom_L: i read that as California Emission Law
12:55 PM gregcnc: I thought everyone that reds about car repair knows CEL or SES
12:55 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: CARB = California Air Resources Board, equiv to Federal EPA
12:55 PM jymmmm: SES?
12:55 PM Tom_L: i haven't done much in quite a while
12:55 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: TMFA
12:55 PM gregcnc: Service Engine Soon = CEL in BMW
12:56 PM jymmmm: BMW?
12:56 PM Tom_L: SED = bmw
12:56 PM Tom_L: Service Engine Daily
12:56 PM gregcnc: shit happens to all makes
12:56 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: lol
12:57 PM Tom_L: i know, just couldn't resist
01:05 PM jymmmm: $60 https://www.aeswave.com/Fuse-Amp-Loop-with-Voltage-Tap-LP-M2-M3-p9755.html
01:05 PM jymmmm: $20 DIY... https://www.amazon.com/General-Technologies-Corp-GTC063-Connector/dp/B0787JKMTH/
01:06 PM jymmmm: I REALLY like those taps
01:06 PM gregcnc: I took a burned fuse and soldered wires to it 25 years ago.
01:07 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: I thought about that, but with all the multiple size fuses there days, might be a pain
01:07 PM jymmmm: these*
01:52 PM _unreal_: interesting looks like my delivery """" will """" arrive today
01:52 PM _unreal_: ordered rails so i can finally finish the upgrade to my cnc machine home machine
01:53 PM _unreal_: when I get it I will be able to check the psacing and make the final cad part. have my current machine cut the parts so Ic an then take everything apart put the new parts in and my home machine will be almost 2x as ridged
01:53 PM _unreal_: the vast majority of play in my machine is all in the Z
02:20 PM pink_vampire: how do I add Mcode before the drilling cycle in G98 G81?
02:20 PM pink_vampire: so each hole will start with that Mcode
02:34 PM * jymmmm back
02:36 PM gregcnc: are you trying to do something G81 doesn't do?
02:39 PM pink_vampire: I'm trying to spray coolant before each drilling operation, and I don't want it on all the time.
02:39 PM pink_vampire: but HSM give me the code as G98 G82 X-11.2 Y1.6 Z-15. R0. P1. F333.33
02:39 PM pink_vampire: and then bunch of X Y locations.
02:40 PM pink_vampire: and at the bottom there is G80
02:40 PM gregcnc: and a G80 after. tha'ts how that works
02:41 PM gregcnc: M8
02:41 PM gregcnc: G4 P1
02:41 PM gregcnc: M9
02:41 PM gregcnc: then drill
02:41 PM pink_vampire: so I need to add Mcode before it start drill the hole
02:41 PM gregcnc: oh you want to edit the post
02:42 PM gregcnc: ?
02:42 PM pink_vampire: I just want drop of cutting oil on the metal, then drill, then move to the next hole, drop of cutting oil drill...
02:43 PM pink_vampire: the user defined Mcode take care of everything, (amount of oil and the control for it.)
02:43 PM pink_vampire: what do I need to edit in the post?
02:44 PM pink_vampire: what the code should look like?
02:44 PM JavaBean: 0100010001 ?
02:49 PM gregcnc: I'm not sure how to work a post like that. Haas has an option like this for mills, maybe somebody did changes like that for F360 which will work in HSM
02:51 PM gregcnc: https://www.haascnc.com/productivity/chip-and-coolant-management/pulsejet.html
03:01 PM gregcnc: I guess the oil code is probably manual NC in CAM. the hard part is creating the routine in the machine control
03:19 PM Tom_L: i've made a handfull of custom post sectons i can just call as a user funciton in my cad file
03:19 PM Tom_L: simplifies all that
03:21 PM skunkworks: yah - this old tony is using mach.
03:34 PM jdh: I forgive him.
03:47 PM skunkworks: Well - I wish him luck. But I am sure he will get a+ support..
03:48 PM syyl: mach4 Oo
03:48 PM syyl: wasnt that dead on arival?
03:49 PM skunkworks: some people think it is awesome.. Others don't
03:50 PM skunkworks: this was recent.. But he went back to mach3.. guh
03:50 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G28eXR42e9w
03:53 PM Tom_L: is mach3 the new mach4?
04:03 PM _unreal_: sweet my rails just showed up
04:19 PM _unreal_: ARG... the only hard part is going to be getting my lead screw behind the mount plate for the new z setup
04:19 PM _unreal_: drawing in cad now
04:21 PM Tom_L: i'm sure you will figure it out
04:21 PM XXCoder: in 20 years i'm pretty sure mach4 will be hacked to work
04:22 PM XXCoder: so mach3 people will finally upgrade
04:22 PM Tom_L: some must spend money to feel they got something useful
04:31 PM _unreal_: hehe
04:31 PM _unreal_: I use to have a FULL version of mach3 years ago
04:31 PM _unreal_: no idea what I ever did with it
04:32 PM _unreal_: mmm stella artois
04:33 PM _unreal_: ya getting it draw now looking at some different options
04:34 PM _unreal_: I hate to build out the Z again but looks like I'm going to end up building it out a little bit unless I mount the stepper off to a side
04:34 PM _unreal_: not really sure I want to do that. not that it will cause any kind of an issue but just the same it will be an issue non the less
04:34 PM robotustra: got mill, got table, now I have to put the mill on the table :/
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: on a properly configured and properly G-coded LCNC machine has anyone ever experienced an axis just stop during a program?
04:36 PM XXCoder: not on lcnc. thats weird
04:37 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, no
04:37 PM Tom_L: i _did_ have some heat related issues but that was my own fault and i understand what it was
04:38 PM XXCoder: only possiblity I can think of, if machine is bit older, is wires getting behind bend limits and has internal break
04:39 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, no error messages?
04:48 PM _unreal_: what is the design/ steppers servos/ open/closed loop?
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: was a survey question based on the video of mach4
04:49 PM Tom_L: ahh
06:34 PM _unreal_: jesus My lead acid battery finished charging only took 7 hours
07:39 PM robotustra: finally https://imgur.com/a/YlPb4jI
07:40 PM XXCoder: yay
07:43 PM robotustra: got the mill at 8:00 am, just finished
07:50 PM _unreal_: almost done designing my new Z system. so I can start milling my new parts
07:50 PM _unreal_: all aluminum mount/carriage for my Z
07:51 PM _unreal_: robotustra, that better be in the kitchen ;)
07:52 PM _unreal_: and what is with the wierd flower or nipple with tassles thing on the wall from the looks of it the red things?
07:52 PM _unreal_: robotustra, now you just need to CNC it
07:53 PM robotustra: no, now I need to finish mu cnc lathe :)
07:53 PM robotustra: this stickers left in this room since long time ago
07:53 PM robotustra: on the wall
07:55 PM robotustra: I got this mill to finish lathe :)
07:57 PM _unreal_: hum
07:58 PM jdh: looks like a g0704/pm25/etc?
07:58 PM _unreal_: ya.. sign I prob have 2 hours of cad work left to finish this DESIGN :(
07:58 PM _unreal_: tomorrow I'll be milling parts
07:58 PM _unreal_: prob take me most of the day but it will be nice to have my cnc machine rebuilt
07:58 PM robotustra: KC-20VS-2
07:59 PM robotustra: but it's the same as 0704
08:00 PM jdh: except expensive af
08:00 PM _unreal_: I have a new spindle brushless 300watt I KNOW I KNOW not all that powerful but its 100watts greater then my current spindle and a hell of a lot faster
08:00 PM _unreal_: and it has a SOLID shaft. my current spindle has a press fit collet end
08:00 PM _unreal_: and I'm not saying it doesnt do a good job just not rigid
08:01 PM robotustra: _unreal_, what mill do you have?
08:01 PM _unreal_: 100% hand bilt
08:01 PM _unreal_: built
08:02 PM robotustra: picture?
08:02 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Epi_HnCUA83Bbr7-sbDEt4EFKLzObQoM/view?usp=sharing
08:02 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jhdu2UXy-NDLAabpD3d6cB-wlT9qazFm/view?usp=sharing
08:03 PM jdh: wow, g0704 is expensive af now also
08:03 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o1Wn0Q8LRXG2arkdEyDWGBun9UrLjNVo/view?usp=sharing
08:03 PM Rab: Tariffs still in effect, I guess?
08:04 PM _unreal_: robotustra, ?
08:04 PM _unreal_: rab I'm designing my new Z assembly right now to upgrade my home cnc
08:04 PM robotustra: how do you control it?
08:04 PM robotustra: linuxcnc?
08:04 PM _unreal_: with a computer
08:05 PM robotustra: I mean software?
08:05 PM _unreal_: well this machine uses a planetcnc controller
08:05 PM robotustra: using parallel port?
08:05 PM _unreal_: usb
08:06 PM robotustra: jdh, yep, it's expensive but buid qhality is decent
08:06 PM XXCoder: control what from what? not clear :) you mean how do linuxcnc control a machine, or how you control linuxcnc?
08:06 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, he's asking me how do I control my machine I believe
08:06 PM XXCoder: if its lcnc control machine, there is some options. parallel port is one of em, using either MESA or BOB with stepper controllers
08:06 PM robotustra: _unreal_, what do you usually build?
08:07 PM _unreal_: ? ahhh care to expand on that quetion a little?
08:07 PM _unreal_: hehe not sure how to respond
08:08 PM robotustra: you machine is built of what material? is it plastic?
08:08 PM _unreal_: G10
08:08 PM _unreal_: ITS A FIBERGLASS and VERY strong
08:09 PM robotustra: ah, I see
08:09 PM robotustra: is it stronger than aluminum?
08:09 PM _unreal_: I believe its in par
08:09 PM _unreal_: and weight is about the same as well
08:09 PM _unreal_: maybe heavyer
08:10 PM robotustra: but wha about the price?
08:10 PM _unreal_: oh I have tons of it. I've been working in boat yards for years and its a common product
08:11 PM _unreal_: same with starboard got lots of it
08:13 PM robotustra: and how did you process it?
08:13 PM robotustra: I mean how did your mill? cut by hands?
08:14 PM CaptHindsight: what is the ratio of glass to epoxy or polyester?
08:15 PM robotustra: G-10 is a high-pressure fiberglass laminate, a type of composite material.[1] It is created by stacking multiple layers of glass cloth, soaked in epoxy resin, and by compressing the resulting material under heat until the epoxy cures.
08:15 PM robotustra: I think it has minimal amount of epoxy
08:17 PM _unreal_: different ways
08:17 PM _unreal_: key thing thing to remember is that when it comes to FRP's like g10 ANYTHING frp. ANY TOOL that will cut tile will cut fiberglass
08:17 PM _unreal_: and cut it like butter
08:18 PM _unreal_: now FIBERGLASS DUST you hae to watch out for there is no way around that BS
08:18 PM robotustra: I mean how did you make your mill :) Because I for instance did my first mill with a hack saw, files and drill press :)
08:19 PM robotustra: literally
08:19 PM robotustra: and some taps
08:20 PM _unreal_: oh
08:20 PM _unreal_: ahh most of the parts were cut using a router with a 1/4" rotory rasp
08:20 PM _unreal_: only tool that did a great job of cutting it and straight that I had
08:22 PM robotustra: so you used another cnc machine to built yours?
08:23 PM CaptHindsight: oh G10, missed that
08:23 PM _unreal_: no by hand
08:24 PM XXCoder: heh annoying when you need a machine to make first machine
08:24 PM XXCoder: im still figuring how to make 3d printer without any printed parts
08:24 PM _unreal_: my current working machine is 100% hand built
08:24 PM _unreal_: my new machine I've been working on for some time now is hand and cnc bilt
08:24 PM _unreal_: built so far
08:25 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, ? I could design one for ya
08:25 PM _unreal_: draw it up in cad not $ hard
08:25 PM _unreal_: are you looking to build one from scratch?
08:26 PM _unreal_: honistly if so I would strongly suggest JUST BUY ONE cheaper and likely better quality then what your going to produce in the first production round
08:26 PM robotustra: true, it'll save you tons of time
08:27 PM robotustra: nowadays almost nobody build any tool from scratch, it's not a science experiment in building tools from scratch :)
08:28 PM XXCoder: yeah
08:28 PM XXCoder: there is interesting books on how to
08:29 PM XXCoder: apparently once you build a lathe you can make any other precision objects with it
08:29 PM XXCoder: some "third tier" of course, needing something else made from lathe first
08:29 PM robotustra: _unreal_, this is mine first https://i.imgur.com/kp47ppl.jpg
08:29 PM XXCoder: thats cool
08:30 PM robotustra: XXCoder, yes, with lathe you can build any other tool. but to build good lathe you need a surface plate and right angle
08:31 PM XXCoder: yeah
08:31 PM XXCoder: i remember reading on how to make porecision 90 angle with sheet of paper
08:31 PM XXCoder: via folding
08:32 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mui6w-8HpK4
08:32 PM robotustra: make surface plate from scratch it's very time consuming process
08:32 PM XXCoder: yeah
08:32 PM XXCoder: you ever seen that amazing video?
08:33 PM XXCoder: thinking on how to discribe it
08:34 PM XXCoder: basically guy uses pennies on circle steel then makes 3 of em
08:34 PM XXCoder: then use them to start making flat round sanders
08:34 PM XXCoder: 3 of em, just hard metal with grid cut on em
08:34 PM robotustra: you mean the 3 plate technique?
08:35 PM robotustra: I know it
08:35 PM XXCoder: yeah theres nice video lemme try find it
08:35 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmsQEAx16o
08:35 PM robotustra: but I just got chippo chineese surface plate for about 100 $
08:35 PM XXCoder: found it. 3 parter videos
08:36 PM XXCoder: 2 is where he begins to really work on it
08:36 PM robotustra: I saw it of cause when I was scraping metal for my lathe
08:37 PM robotustra: there is an equivalent video in russian, where guy is telling not only how to make surface plate but also a precision angle
08:38 PM XXCoder: robertz videos is amazing also
08:38 PM XXCoder: he recently made amazing video on making jig for measuring surface curve!
08:38 PM robotustra: callimator
08:38 PM XXCoder: I cant match his toe on skills!
08:38 PM robotustra: I saw it
08:38 PM XXCoder: let alone his whole body lol
08:40 PM robotustra: if you can do your own brazed carbide tungsten tools - you can do whatever you want
08:40 PM XXCoder: pretty much. im pretty lousy machinist myself lol
08:40 PM XXCoder: barely above operator at times
08:41 PM robotustra: I also not a machinist at all
08:41 PM robotustra: but I'm already milling for 5 years on my router
08:41 PM XXCoder: youre far above operator then
08:41 PM robotustra: recentlty I even started to write my own code
08:42 PM XXCoder: above me in lots aspects too since you can your own designs and cam
08:42 PM robotustra: just becasue I didn't like g-code produced by Artcam
08:42 PM XXCoder: is artcam worth it? wondered. also is it windows only?
08:42 PM robotustra: I wrote it by hands :)
08:42 PM XXCoder: its so annoying hard to find much not on windows
08:43 PM robotustra: yep, my win xp is in virtualbox in linux :)
08:43 PM robotustra: I started with artcam because it was easy start to mill something
08:44 PM robotustra: after a year or two of milling something I already started to understand feeds and speeds better, and started to notice that artcam generate not optimal trajectories
08:45 PM XXCoder: man feeds and such is hard
08:46 PM robotustra: not so hard, but you should play with them as soon as you get new tool
08:46 PM XXCoder: yeah though at work most times I cant run own projects
08:47 PM robotustra: I didn't work on industrial machines yet
08:49 PM robotustra: and my machine has not very strong motors, it means that it rather lose steps than brake the mill it the feed is too high
08:50 PM XXCoder: thats better than replacing screws and some frame parts yeah
08:50 PM robotustra: true
08:51 PM robotustra: but still my first mill is not rigid enough to mill iron
08:52 PM XXCoder: its bit hard to get to that point yeah
08:52 PM robotustra: it means that I can't make steel machine, that's why I got mill with can mill iron
08:52 PM robotustra: in theory - not really
08:53 PM XXCoder: since techinically your first mill can do it, but it will eat tools pretty fast since its making powder rather than chips
08:53 PM robotustra: do you know that KERN machines made of aluminum?
08:54 PM XXCoder: this? https://www.multistation.com/en/product/kern-micro/
08:54 PM robotustra: and they can do repeatale 1 micron precition repeatably on 5 axii machines
08:55 PM robotustra: yeah for instance
08:55 PM XXCoder: they made from alum? interesting.
08:55 PM XXCoder: I guess its cheaper than "real" mills
08:55 PM robotustra: they do cooling of everything, to keep thermal stability
08:56 PM robotustra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiOouOhEs1A
08:56 PM robotustra: I was also surprized
08:56 PM robotustra: this is a tour
08:59 PM robotustra: 15 min 40 sec
09:00 PM robotustra: water cooled pendant
09:01 PM robotustra: the temperature of intake coolant and exhause coolant - difference is not higher 0.1 degree
09:03 PM robotustra: so it means that it's real to make rigid precise machine in aluminum, but it should be pretty biffy
09:04 PM robotustra: or beaffy
09:05 PM robotustra: I mean it should have big chuncks of aluminum
09:13 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:15 PM robotustra: not pendant, but how it's called
09:15 PM robotustra: gimble?
09:18 PM robotustra: I would like to make my router rigid, but I can't find good solution for how to make it more rigid - becaus the portal type design is not
09:18 PM XXCoder: pictures of it again?
09:18 PM robotustra: other rigid designs are bigger with the same engvelope
09:18 PM robotustra: my mill?
09:19 PM XXCoder: yeah
09:19 PM XXCoder: ah no router I mean, the designs of it
09:19 PM robotustra: I did my first machine like 8 years ago
09:19 PM robotustra: no plans of cause
09:20 PM robotustra: 1 sec
09:20 PM XXCoder: sure
09:21 PM robotustra: this is the beginning http://robotustra.ca/my-cnc-mill
09:21 PM robotustra: 7 years ago
09:21 PM XXCoder: pretty thick slabs thats good for strength
09:21 PM robotustra: the first spindle I throwed away
09:21 PM robotustra: yes 3/4"
09:21 PM robotustra: 19 mm
09:21 PM XXCoder: well there is some cheaty way to add stiffness to them
09:22 PM XXCoder: basicaly, add a fin
09:22 PM robotustra: I think it lack of rigidity in the bearings
09:22 PM XXCoder: it "adds" like 2 inches to thickness so it have much stronger resistance to flex
09:22 PM XXCoder: yeah sbr isnt best on that
09:24 PM robotustra: when I do milling across the portal it goes down like 0.1 mm
09:24 PM robotustra: in the middle
09:25 PM robotustra: if to make a rigid portal - and move table along the axis - the mill will be 2 times linger
09:25 PM robotustra: longer
09:25 PM XXCoder: the base would need something to make it more stiff also
09:25 PM robotustra: and will not fit into the box :)
09:25 PM XXCoder: sbr helps so dunno
09:26 PM XXCoder: gantry is quite tall, good for larger parts but also bad due to amount of leverage
09:27 PM XXCoder: anyway your machine is nice :) better than I can do
09:28 PM robotustra: thanks, I was not 100% sure in the success
09:28 PM robotustra: but for small aluminum parts I can keep within 20 microns
09:29 PM XXCoder: one of ways to have stiffness to prevent gantry from leveragng is wider base, but you lose some length
09:29 PM robotustra: 0.02 mm for parts less than 60 mm
09:29 PM robotustra: yes
09:29 PM XXCoder: thats quite decent
09:29 PM XXCoder: enough to make precision made cnc machine
09:29 PM robotustra: 5 inches
09:30 PM robotustra: may be to move spindle back
09:30 PM robotustra: to be inside bearings
09:30 PM ziper: the harbor freight lathe comes with a live center but no drill chuck. not sure exactly what they expect us to use that live center on
09:31 PM robotustra: a barrel?
09:31 PM ziper: good idea
09:31 PM ziper: ordering gun barrels
09:32 PM robotustra: well I also have order a set of R8 collets
09:46 PM robotustra: I don't know what is the better option, one R8 holder for a set of ER32 collets or just a set of R8 collets
09:46 PM robotustra: not price wise but practically
09:47 PM robotustra: what is better
09:47 PM XXCoder: probably look into runout and such
10:07 PM robotustra: in case of R8-ER32 it's possible to compensate runout, or make it worser
10:07 PM robotustra: but in case of R8 only - the lotal runout will be of collet only
10:08 PM XXCoder: any differences on what range of tools those can use?
10:11 PM robotustra: I think up to 20 mm in diameter
10:11 PM robotustra: for R8
10:11 PM robotustra: but for this mill it's not recommended to use bigger than 3/4" mill
10:12 PM robotustra: endmill
10:12 PM robotustra: so, 20mm is a limit I think
10:13 PM XXCoder: can use special tools thats larger in diameter but you gonna watch how much sideload it does
10:13 PM XXCoder: like mini facemill
10:13 PM XXCoder: that is perfect for skimming surface to make clean top
10:15 PM robotustra: face mill is recommended up to 2"
10:16 PM robotustra: don't forget - it has plastic gears inside and 1 hp motor only
10:17 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:17 PM XXCoder: if its wood no problems however
10:17 PM robotustra: one of the downside of the R8-ER32 system I see that it reduces the vertical size
10:18 PM robotustra: may be by 1.5"
10:18 PM roycroft: and it won't be as rigid as just using r8 collets
10:18 PM robotustra: yes
10:18 PM roycroft: on a small mill like that it's a big deal
10:19 PM robotustra: it means that for steel milling I actually should use R8 collets
10:19 PM XXCoder: and unfortunately low amount of depth of cutting
10:19 PM XXCoder: boring but you can make better machine with it
10:19 PM robotustra: ah, I need a boring head too
10:20 PM robotustra: ok then I have to go with R8 set only
10:21 PM XXCoder: seems better choice
10:55 PM infornography: Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
10:56 PM berin_ is now known as _unreal_