#linuxcnc Logs

Jul 16 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:21 AM Loetmichel: mornin#
01:27 AM Loetmichel: *harhar* You know you do that WAY to often when you stop at the fuel station on your morning commute and on the cashiers desk is already a frash brewed latte macciato and your favorite smokes waiting for you... THATS service :-)
03:04 AM Loetmichel: hehe, i am sitting here on my desk in the shop floor... our "delivery organizing" gal came down to discuss something with the measurement engineer... MAN those two are like a 40 years married couple... the amount of bitching and banter is over 9000... have. to. remain. silent. and. not. laugh. out. loud.
05:29 AM Tom_L: morning
05:30 AM XXCoder: lol loet
05:47 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:51 AM XXCoder: hey
05:53 AM XXCoder: jt the office area is still closed but shop running now
05:53 AM JT-Cave: was testing part of the spoke lathe conversion yesterday and the cylinder coupling I used pulled in two
05:53 AM XXCoder: wasnt great day
05:53 AM XXCoder: doh
05:53 AM JT-Cave: I guess it was not rated for tension
06:51 AM JT-Cave: what is a push in a forum
06:55 AM XXCoder: only one I can think of is push notification, one where they send info to you rather than "pull" where your browser contacts site
06:56 AM XXCoder: not sure if it applies at all lol
06:58 AM JT-Cave: hmm ifconfig is depreciated now
06:59 AM SpeedEvil: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
06:59 AM XXCoder: whats next, grep?
07:05 AM Loetmichel: hehe, just finished my second successful SLA print... noticed that the sun isnt shining... no UV curing light... fuuuuuu... then the coworker asked if i still have my PCB exposer at the company... YES, I HAVE... solution! -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17907&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
07:27 AM Loetmichel: hehe, just finished my second successful SLA print... noticed that the sun isnt shining... no UV curing light... fuuuuuu... then the coworker asked if i still have my PCB exposer at the company... YES, I HAVE... solution! -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17907&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
07:27 AM Loetmichel: grr
07:28 AM Loetmichel: sorry for double
08:38 AM perry_j1987: hows it going
08:50 AM skunkworks: cooled off
08:50 AM skunkworks: but humid
08:51 AM skunkworks: can't see across the mississippi
11:16 AM Tom_L: rain.
11:31 AM gregcnc: did anyone make small <6" super spacers (manual indexer)
11:35 AM Tom_L: how many degree res?
11:39 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Dividing-Plates-Working-Manual-Milling-Indexing/dp/B01N249BVJ/ref=pd_lpo_469_t_0/132-2438399-2872809?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01N249BVJ&pd_rd_r=60742696-c26b-4b62-927b-d90a811aacd5&pd_rd_w=BKSmQ&pd_rd_wg=dMryA&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=YC6CZHFVVFC0E55A7NGC&psc=1&refRID=YC6CZHFVVFC0E55A7NGC
11:40 AM Tom_L: gregcnc, iirc someone here recently got an indexer
11:41 AM gregcnc: not a dividing head https://www.ebay.com/itm/333630267080
11:41 AM Tom_L: maybe what's the difference?
11:42 AM Tom_L: - maybe :)
11:42 AM gregcnc: the plates define positions
11:42 AM Tom_L: so similar just not as many divisions
11:42 AM gregcnc: unlock lever, rotate, release
11:42 AM Tom_L: i see the first plate has 2
11:43 AM Tom_L: yeah
11:43 AM Tom_L: no i've never used one of those
11:43 AM Tom_L: a used one might have worn plates
11:43 AM gregcnc: I wonder how garbage this is https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Quick-Indexer-w-3-Chuck/H7592
11:43 AM gregcnc: and how you even mount it
11:44 AM Tom_L: long allthread with strap clamps?
11:44 AM Tom_L: dunno
11:45 AM * JT-Cave notices that lunch minute is up
11:46 AM Tom_L: some of those plates on that Yuasas look worn
11:46 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, what you been workin on lately?
11:46 AM gregcnc: oh well
11:46 AM Tom_L: wouldn't be that hard to make some
11:47 AM Tom_L: https://www.amazon.com/Spacer-Masking-Plates-Adjustable-0-0005/dp/B01KU0S6R8
11:48 AM JT-Cave: that 1800's spoke lathe
11:48 AM JT-Cave: just got one part done
11:48 AM Tom_L: fix the cylinder attachment problem?
11:49 AM Tom_L: tension vs compression
11:50 AM Tom_L: gregcnc, do those have a release handle that locks back in when you turn it to the next position?
11:50 AM Tom_L: i can see that being desireable in a production environment
11:50 AM JT-Cave: yea got a better coupling
11:51 AM JT-Cave: gotta find a thin 13/16" wrench to tighten it up so off to mainards
11:52 AM Tom_L: i got one
11:52 AM Tom_L: i think
11:52 AM Tom_L: fits bicycle hubs
11:52 AM Tom_L: sounds about the right size anyway
11:53 AM Tom_L: better pick up a set of wentworth tools while you're there :)
11:54 AM jymmmm: LOL, been looking for a 13/16 spark plug socket, lowes has been out of stock for a month
11:54 AM Tom_L: ace
11:54 AM Tom_L: hdwe
11:54 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: ACe is twice the price
11:54 AM jymmmm: I already checked =)
11:54 AM Tom_L: craftsman though i think
11:55 AM jymmmm: Yeah, both lowes and Ace are craftsman
11:55 AM Tom_L: not chinaman
11:55 AM Tom_L: oh?
11:55 AM jymmmm: Yeah, lowes has the full craftsman line
11:56 AM Tom_L: are they still lifetime?
11:56 AM jymmmm: yep
11:56 AM jymmmm: Orchard carried craftsman, lowes bought orcahrd, lowes closed orchard, lowes lept the craftsman line
11:57 AM jymmmm: Lowes are assholes for closing Orchard Supply Hardware, LOVED that place
11:58 AM jymmmm: ORchard had been around for like 108 years
12:00 PM Tom_L: i generally don't go to lowes
12:00 PM jymmmm: ME neither, but I do for swapping craftman
12:01 PM Tom_L: you just take them to the service desk?
12:02 PM Tom_L: i've got a few i've cut and welded on... wonder if they'd take those
12:02 PM jymmmm: Well, I first go find the replacement to make sure t's in stock, then take it to the returns counter and they do the exchange.
12:02 PM jymmmm: Yes, the lifetime warranty is on a SATISFACTION warranty, not a performance/durability warranty
12:03 PM jymmmm: And if they no longer make an item, you will get your money back.
12:04 PM jymmmm: hand tools only
12:06 PM Tom_L: if they no longer make it, who sets the value?
12:06 PM jymmmm: Craftsman
12:07 PM jymmmm: They are reasonable in that respect, but sadly I would have rather had the replacement than the cash on a few things, mainly micro piiers/cutters
12:24 PM jymmmm: Hey Lawrence
12:24 PM jymmmm: Awww how cute, a 80mm radator... https://www.amazon.com/Clyxgs-Aluminum-Exchanger-radiator-Radiator/dp/B07PG98KD4
12:26 PM jymmmm: Maybe I cna make an upgrade to the garage ghetto AC
12:29 PM gregcnc: how does the heat exchanger help?
12:31 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: pulls colder water across the radiator
12:33 PM gregcnc: what are you doing now that this would help?
12:35 PM jymmmm: I could use 32 lbs of ice instead of just 8lbs
12:35 PM jymmmm: https://cdns.webareacontrol.com/prodimages/470-X-470/8/P/852019182112102018325Polar-Active-Ice-2.0-Universal-Cold-Therapy-System-P-P.png
12:36 PM jymmmm: basically just better energy transfer
12:36 PM jymmmm: thermal transfer*
12:37 PM jymmmm: I still prefer passive though
12:38 PM gregcnc: where does the ice come from?
12:38 PM jymmmm: the crap load of one gallon jugs of water I have in the freezer. When one melts, jsut swap it out
12:39 PM gregcnc: please don't tell me this freezer is in the garage you are trying to cool
12:39 PM jymmmm: Four 2L soda bottles would fit nicely in a 5gal bucket
12:40 PM jymmmm: Yep it is, it's mostly the humidty that gets me, this helps big time
12:40 PM beanbag-: anyone use epson rc+ sw
12:41 PM beanbag-: yes I know what channel this is but some people here have experience in many platforms
12:43 PM gregcnc: how much water do you get from the air? the biggest problem is the freezer puts the heat+losses from making the ice into the room
12:46 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: It's just spot cooling, not whole garage cooling,
12:49 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: But... If you had a coil of plastic tubing zip tied to the fan, then a small pump in a 5gal bucket, you could toss four 2L soda botltes that are frozen with water, and jsut swap them out as they melt. would work pretty good
12:49 PM jymmmm: It's just a bigger version of that pic I linked to above
12:52 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: YOu don't need copper tubing, but you get the idea... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V93Gh3Q2Ro
12:52 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: Instead of blocks of ice, just repurpose 2L soda bottles and refreeze as needed
12:59 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: Those ice therapy machines are pretty effective. They even have pump speed control, the slower it pumps the colder it gets.
01:00 PM Dolence: Hi! Thinking in upgrading my router, it actually uses hybrid stepper motors (easy drivers) and parallel port to generate steps
01:01 PM Dolence: I'm tempeted to get a Mesa card or ethernet controller
01:02 PM gregcnc: no doubt about how it works. Though if you use this often i'd be tempted to permanently install the cold side in a minfridge
01:05 PM Dolence: How would it work with easy servos? Actually the hybrid steppers are directly connected to drivers (power cable and encoder cable) in a closed loop. Linux CNC only generate steps/dir.
01:07 PM Dolence: Using a Mesa would be possible to connect the encoder return to the mesa itself/linux cnc? I mean, making it a real closed loop?
01:11 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: I actually do have a 2CF mini frig I got for free, It works great, but IDK if it could "keep up" compared to solid blocks of ice in a bucket
01:12 PM gregcnc: I mean put a big container of water in there with a coil
01:13 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: Yeah, I do understand, but bottle of water frozen over 24hrs, compared to an insulated mini frig with BTU's bing pumped out on demand; It would kind be like just leaving the frig door open and blowing a fan on it.
01:14 PM gregcnc: it would freeze just he same while not using it
01:14 PM jymmmm: It's a mini frig, not mini freezer
01:15 PM gregcnc: what kind fo temperature and humidity are you dealing with
01:15 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: I have about 100 lbs of frozen jugs of water in the freezer, so it's easy to swap out as it melts and let refreeze in 24 hours
01:16 PM jymmmm: 95-104f @ 40%
01:16 PM Dolence: ahn... am I in the right place?
01:17 PM gregcnc: dolence I think it's been done but I don't have any experience with hybrid steppers
01:17 PM gregcnc: I don't think you gain much however
01:21 PM Dolence: I'm having some issues. My machine doesn't seem to have any backlashes. Still round cuts aren't perfect. I thought it could be related to one of the drivers correcting steps or decelrating while the remaing doesn't because they aren't aware of each other
01:21 PM Dolence: I don't know if it makes sense
01:21 PM gregcnc: does teh drive allow you to check following error?
01:22 PM gregcnc: machine deflection, tool deflection are also real things
01:23 PM Dolence: What it mean? English isn't my main language... Machine deflection?
01:23 PM gregcnc: the machine bends
01:24 PM gregcnc: depends on machine design and loads
01:25 PM Dolence: Ah... Doesn't seem to be the case... I got jagged edges
01:25 PM Dolence: Holes aren't smooth
01:29 PM gregcnc: what kind of machine?
01:31 PM Dolence: Custom made/DIY
01:32 PM Dolence: I will send you some pictures
01:32 PM Dolence: blob:https://web.whatsapp.com/aa212788-9da6-48f5-8ef5-fafb7c59fb7c
01:32 PM Dolence: blob:https://web.whatsapp.com/138db921-4a31-4aa5-86d2-bbb0ccec6245
01:32 PM Dolence: blob:https://web.whatsapp.com/18c5e138-004e-479c-b31c-c815a2bd3191
01:32 PM Dolence: blob:https://web.whatsapp.com/cf5c47ae-57f3-43ed-a7f8-8a904ca0fe60
01:33 PM Dolence: Ah, it doesnt' work this way... I will upload to imgur
01:34 PM Dolence: https://imgur.com/a/C7is2pc
01:36 PM Dolence: I found this picture, it's simillar to what I'm having...
01:36 PM Dolence: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=262770&d=1420061947
01:39 PM Dolence: I'm not using any reduction, rack, pinion, belt etc
01:39 PM Dolence: I'm direct driving all the 3 axis
02:02 PM Dolence: gregcnc I have sent a couple of pictures on the imgur link above
02:03 PM gregcnc: the machine looks substantial. when interpolating a hole, is the problem all the way around?
02:04 PM Tom_L: those screws look pretty coarse
02:04 PM perry_j1987: this precision matthews PM-728VT looks pretty darn nice
02:05 PM Tom_L: go buy it
02:05 PM perry_j1987: working on it
02:05 PM perry_j1987: so many options out there
02:05 PM perry_j1987: making sure not wasting money
02:06 PM Rab: Dolence, what is your calculated resolution for X/Y?
02:07 PM Tom_L: gregcnc, i wonder if his lead screws are too coarse
02:08 PM gregcnc: could be, but that would seem obvious
02:08 PM Tom_L: the cnczone pic isn't his but an example
02:08 PM Tom_L: maybe obvious to some
02:09 PM gregcnc: with enough torque and resolution it should work, but I guess i dont' really know what those hybrid steppers are capable of
02:09 PM Tom_L: yeah me either
02:10 PM Tom_L: or the spindle speed
02:10 PM gregcnc: dolence which motor and drive is being used?
02:13 PM Tom_L: now you got me lookin at dividing heads for my mill :(
02:15 PM Tom_L: i'd have to find a small one
02:15 PM gregcnc: I have a part I want to produce that needs two operation at 90° so I'm trying to figure out something efficient
02:15 PM JT-Shop: someone in NC used my CC number to buy a weed wacker from walmart and it's in transit
02:15 PM Tom_L: i did a pin arrangement for jt once
02:15 PM Tom_L: don't even remember what it was for now
02:16 PM Tom_L: he might
02:18 PM JT-Shop: me?
02:18 PM Tom_L: yeah you were trying to divide something
02:18 PM Tom_L: probably a year or more ago
02:19 PM Tom_L: was basically 2 hole patterns in a couple plates or something like that
02:22 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/fixture.jpg
02:23 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, do you recall what that was for?
02:23 PM JT-Shop: don't recall that
02:24 PM Tom_L: 2016
02:24 PM Tom_L: me either now
02:28 PM Dolence: Sorry, I was on phone
02:28 PM Dolence: X and Y are 12 n.m
02:29 PM Dolence: Z 4 n.m
02:29 PM Dolence: I will try to find the driver and easy servo datasheet
02:29 PM gregcnc: 20mm pitch screws
02:29 PM gregcnc: ?
02:29 PM Rab: Dolence, I don't recognize the units. Can you convert to mm, please?
02:30 PM gregcnc: steps per rev?
02:30 PM gregcnc: N-m
02:31 PM Dolence: 12 newton-meter
02:31 PM Dolence: screws are...
02:32 PM Dolence: 32 with pitch 25 on Y
02:32 PM Tom_L: gregcnc, dunno what you're doing but you could pin a couple plates to get your angles if you wanted something simple
02:32 PM Dolence: 25 with pitch 20 on X
02:32 PM Tom_L: like that pic
02:33 PM Tom_L: 32mm pitch on x and 25mm pitch on Y?
02:34 PM gregcnc: and step resolution?
02:34 PM * Tom_L is betting that might be the issue
02:36 PM Dolence: Sorry, it's 32mm pitch 25mm on Y and X and 25mm pitch 20mm on Z
02:36 PM gregcnc: quite course for cutting metal
02:37 PM gregcnc: pfft coarse even
02:37 PM Tom_L: yeah
02:37 PM Tom_L: teach him proper engrish
02:38 PM Dolence: Microstepping is 4
02:39 PM gregcnc: do you have a pic of the part?
02:39 PM Dolence: 32 steps per mm
02:40 PM Dolence: It's worse on higher speeds, even when cutting MDF. It seems to be direct related to motion speed
02:41 PM Dolence: I used to have an smaller machine, never had issues like this. And it was running on common steppers.
02:44 PM gregcnc: are the drives properly configured?
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: 200 step/rev and microstepping at 4 is 0.04mm for the 32mm pitch
02:44 PM gregcnc: do the steppers make teh expected torque?
02:44 PM CaptHindsight: and 0.03125mm for the 25mm pitch screw
02:45 PM gregcnc: does anyone also have issues with these motors or drives?
02:45 PM gregcnc: have you measured deflection while loading an axis?
02:46 PM gregcnc: is the issue both x and Y?
02:46 PM Rab: I would not expect that resolution be visible in MDF, or to vary with speed. Sounds like a following error in the drive, maybe.\
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: well go through it step by step
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: is this an new problem or starting from first use?
02:50 PM Dolence: from first use
02:50 PM Dolence: https://imgur.com/a/Pb9dANB
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: what voltage are the stepper drives at?
02:51 PM gregcnc: that looks like chatter and backlash at the quadrants
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: can you measure lash by pushing and pulling each axis around?
02:52 PM CaptHindsight: how rigid is this thing?
02:52 PM gregcnc: looks beefy though the upright don't have any sideways bracing
02:52 PM Dolence: It doesn't move at all
02:53 PM Dolence: There is no backlash for sure
02:53 PM gregcnc: measured with what?
02:53 PM Dolence: It's very sturdy
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: how long is the cutting tool?
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/M1N93dq.jpg
02:56 PM Dolence: cutting piece? is 22mm
02:57 PM Dolence: gregcnc I mean, it doesn't have any aparent movement when forcing axis by hand
02:57 PM gregcnc: but you only needs microns to see what you're seeing
02:57 PM Dolence: I see... How could I measure it?
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: 400-600W spindle? ER-16 collet size?
02:58 PM gregcnc: dial test indicator
02:58 PM Dolence: 3 hp ER-20 collect chuck
02:58 PM Dolence: 24000 rpm
03:00 PM gregcnc: as I mention early on, tool deflection is real. This is influenced by the cutting parameters.
03:00 PM Dolence: https://neomotion.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/dat-es-mhd_v1-3.pdf
03:01 PM gregcnc: just a lot to learn is all
03:04 PM gregcnc: do straight cuts look any better?
03:05 PM Dolence: Yes
03:05 PM gregcnc: even with a very good machine and high resolution, steppers won't necessarily produce great finishes on interpolated moves
03:06 PM gregcnc: the metal cutting stepper driven machines i'm familiar with have 400-2000 step/mm resolution
03:07 PM Dolence: Could it be the post processor?
03:07 PM Dolence: Should I use a higher microstepping to test?
03:07 PM gregcnc: is the arc move G1 or G2/3?
03:08 PM Dolence: Sometimes, even when doing a straight line, it seems to pass the point and go back a little on corners
03:09 PM gregcnc: that may be a tuning issue. but I have no idea about tuning hybrid steppers
03:10 PM gregcnc: If the drives let you check following error that would be a good place to start
03:10 PM Dolence: I will try higher microstepping and see if a lern something about tuning this steppers
03:10 PM Tom_L: climb or conventional cutting might change the way it looks
03:11 PM Dolence: And measure backlash as you told me
03:11 PM Tom_L: they've come up with fancy variable pitch cutters too to help eliminate chatter
03:12 PM Tom_L: probably not your problem here though
03:12 PM Dolence: arc moves are G3
03:12 PM gregcnc: the post is not causing this
03:13 PM Dolence: Tomorrow I will do some tests and report back. Thank you very much for all the insights!
03:18 PM Tom_L: Dolence, where are you from?
03:19 PM Dolence: Brasil
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: OT I noticed that brazil has some of the highest import taxes 50-100%
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: even on items not produced in Brazil
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: what is the idea there? To promote manufacturing in Brazil for products not yet made there?
03:24 PM Dolence: It's true. 60%~ + ICMS
03:24 PM Dolence: In the end it will be somewhat around 100%
03:25 PM Dolence: It's a nonsense
03:25 PM CaptHindsight: it's tough to start production where all your machines and materials cost 2x as other pay
03:26 PM perry_j1987: use to know someone from Natal Brazil
03:26 PM perry_j1987: absolutely beautiful area
03:26 PM roycroft: the idea is to put more money in bolsonaro's pockets
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: why I am asking a native of Brazil, the duties way predate anything by Bolsonaro
03:27 PM Dolence: It's not true roycroft
03:27 PM Dolence: It's been this way since decades
03:28 PM Dolence: Actually Bolsonaro have plans to reduce tributary charges
03:28 PM Dolence: Congress blocks
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: ~15 years we looked at brazil for possible PCB manufacturing, since there were a couple state of the art fabs there
03:29 PM Dolence: In my region are some
03:29 PM Dolence: I live in Curitiba/PR
03:30 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Are you an audiphilie? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKIye4RZ-5k
03:30 PM jymmmm: ve7it: Nice lil project for you... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKIye4RZ-5k
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: Dolence: I understand why taxes could be so high to protect Brazillian made products, but if none are made there and the tax is high does it actually encourage people to start making those products?
03:32 PM Dolence: I don't think so. Our industry still outdated with some rare exceptions like PCB manufacturing
03:33 PM Dolence: All the companies are moving to Paraguay
03:33 PM Dolence: Almost zero taxes when compared to here
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: good to know
03:35 PM Dolence: And their government offers lots of advantages like subsidies on energy, less labor taxes, low taxes loans etc
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: Dolence: also check if the quality of the cut changes depending on how deep you cut
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: bbl, have to get metal before they close
03:40 PM ve7it: jymmmm, having a look.. i like speakers
03:42 PM jymmmm: ve7it: Yeah, I like the idea of the flat 2ft sq foam panels. Could layer with speaker cloth for a nice look
03:42 PM jymmmm: ve7it: And someone mounted those exciters on a 2x4 for bass
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: voice coils are for motors!
03:55 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Per your request.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdcTmpvDO0I
03:56 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Run that thru your CNC thingy!!!
04:00 PM jymmmm: What can you do with 1140 FARAD cap?
04:01 PM gregcnc: wut?
04:01 PM jymmmm: $16, might be fun to play with
04:01 PM jymmmm: only 2.7V though
04:04 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, lick it
04:22 PM JT-Cave: Missouri just passed the 30k mark for covid 19
04:23 PM XXCoder: georgia apparently passed 118k cases, and goverator passed law banning mask mandate
04:23 PM XXCoder: great way to make numbers bigger. bigger is better right?
04:24 PM JT-Cave: that's pretty dumb of the governor
04:24 PM XXCoder: yeah
04:25 PM Tom_L: i was down there when it all started.. their mentality is questionable
04:26 PM roycroft: the man had to cheat to get elected in the first place
04:26 PM roycroft: but he's not the dumbest governor in the country
04:27 PM XXCoder: it sucks when plague is polititized
04:27 PM roycroft: both florida and oklahoma beat georgia in the dumbest governor contest
04:27 PM roycroft: yes, it does
04:27 PM roycroft: but that shows how little regard some people have for the lives of others
04:28 PM XXCoder: yeah
04:29 PM Tom_L: the reported numbers are probably moderate
04:29 PM Tom_L: not everyone that needs a test is getting it
04:30 PM roycroft: and we'll have absolutely no idea what the numbers are going forward
04:30 PM Tom_L: i know even here the system is overwhelmed
04:30 PM roycroft: because hospitals have been ordered to report directly to the white house, and are not allowed to send their numbers to the cdc any more
04:30 PM Tom_L: site that please
04:31 PM XXCoder: yeah and some sites is now blank
04:31 PM roycroft: it's been all over the news for two days
04:31 PM XXCoder: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/us-coronavirus-data-has-already-disappeared-after-trump-administration-shifted-control-from-cdc-to-hhs.html
04:31 PM Tom_L: i don't watch it
04:31 PM roycroft: i check various online news sites a couple times/day
04:32 PM roycroft: i don't watch television news
04:32 PM roycroft: but it has been widely reported
04:32 PM roycroft: i'm not saying that you should have known
04:32 PM Tom_L: i figure i'd just be getting someone's version of it
04:32 PM roycroft: i'm just saying that's why i did not have a citation at my fingertips
04:33 PM roycroft: you suggested the other day that i'm making this political, tom_l
04:34 PM roycroft: quite the opposite - i'm really pissed off that it has been made political
04:34 PM roycroft: and the information that i trust and believe comes from doctors and scientists
04:34 PM roycroft: not from politicians
04:34 PM roycroft: but it's getting harder to even get that information first hand now
04:43 PM Tom_L: sounds to me that partially the CDC couldn't keep up
04:45 PM roycroft: the cdc are a mostly career scientist organization
04:45 PM roycroft: hhs are a mostly political organization
04:46 PM roycroft: i.e. full of political appointees
04:46 PM roycroft: who can be controlled and fired
04:46 PM roycroft: the cdc were publishing those data every single day since the pandemic began
04:47 PM roycroft: and if they "could not keep up" the appropriate response would be to get them more resources, not to take away part of their core functionality and hide it under a political umbrella
04:50 PM Tom_L: the worker that tested positive at my kid's work reported back today without a negative test
04:52 PM roycroft: that is really scary
04:52 PM Tom_L: XXCoder's work was shut down for sanitation becasue obviously someone teste positive
04:52 PM Tom_L: everyone there should have been tested. they're back to work
04:52 PM roycroft: and my boss is defying the law and refusing to wear a mask, and told me not to wear one last time i was in the office
04:53 PM roycroft: so i'm not going back to the office
04:53 PM Tom_L: i'd estimate about 1/3 the ppl i see aren't
04:53 PM roycroft: he is one of the people who doesn't get that by making things worse all he's doing is making things worse
04:54 PM roycroft: we're at about 98-99% compliance indoors here now
04:54 PM roycroft: but our order to wear a mask outdoors as well when social distancing is not possible just went into effect two days go
04:54 PM roycroft: ago
04:54 PM Tom_L: the masks most use won't prevent anything. they just keep your germs closer to you
04:54 PM roycroft: it will probably be another week or so before there is widespread compliance
04:55 PM roycroft: that is the whole point
04:55 PM roycroft: to keep people from spreading it easily
04:55 PM roycroft: it's not to protect the wearer at all
04:56 PM Tom_L: walk in and sneeze on your boss
04:56 PM Tom_L: see what he does
04:56 PM roycroft: and in the medical community it is universally believed, because the evidence is there, that they are quite effective for their intended use
04:57 PM roycroft: if i'm honest, i'm not sure he even believes that the novel corona virus even exists
04:57 PM roycroft: he did at first
04:57 PM roycroft: but then he started ranting about nancy pelosi and using the word "hoax" a lot
04:57 PM roycroft: i think he's convinced himself that the pandemic is not real and that nobody has died of covid-19
07:06 PM Tom_L: which is more widely used, a 14.5 or 20 deg pressure angle for involute gears?
07:08 PM perry_j1987: i give up. which? :P
07:08 PM perry_j1987: waiting for the punchline
07:08 PM Tom_L: pretty sure 20 but it was a question
07:14 PM jdh: more power vs. stronger teeth it appears
07:15 PM Tom_L: that's what i'm seeing
07:17 PM jdh: http://hessmer.org/gears/InvoluteSpurGearBuilder.html
07:18 PM Tom_L: i've got a macro for my cad cam to build them
07:19 PM Tom_L: haven't looked at it in quite a while
07:19 PM Tom_L: i wrote one for sprockets
07:20 PM Tom_L: it covers pressure angles from 14.5 to 45
07:26 PM CaptHindsight: came across a sewing machine from 1875, might convert to CNC
07:32 PM roycroft: that was not fun
07:32 PM roycroft: i had to break down the first round of boards for my new workbench
07:33 PM roycroft: they're way too big to handle comfortably in my shop, so i mved my bandsaw and jointer out onto my driveway
07:33 PM roycroft: 36 degrees, no wind, no shade
07:33 PM roycroft: 2 1/2 hours out there in the heat
07:33 PM roycroft: when i was done i had to wear gloves to move the machines back inside because they were too hot to touch with my bare hands
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: stop it, the hot weather starts there and moves here after a day or two, so just stop it please
07:34 PM roycroft: and this was only about 1/3 of what i need - i have to wait a couple weeks until my hardwood supplier gets more before round two
07:34 PM roycroft: and it will probably be even hotter then
07:35 PM roycroft: i did survive
07:36 PM roycroft: i think next time i'll set up an ez-up so i have a little shade
07:36 PM roycroft: at least part of the time
07:36 PM roycroft: the boards are 10-12' long, so i need 25 feet to work in
07:36 PM roycroft: 3 ez-ups
07:37 PM roycroft: anyway, summer is here
07:37 PM roycroft: now that it's over half over
07:40 PM Tom_L: roycroft, was it you that recently got a dividing head?
08:08 PM roycroft: i got a rotary table not too long ago with dividing head plates
08:08 PM roycroft: well, that was a year or more ago
08:08 PM Tom_L: no 3jaw with it?
08:08 PM roycroft: somewhat recent
08:09 PM roycroft: no, but i had a 4 jaw for my mini lathe that i wasn't using, so i adapted that to fit
08:09 PM roycroft: it's a 6" rotary table
08:09 PM roycroft: and a 4" 4 jaw
08:10 PM roycroft: the 4 jaw had been sitting in a box, never opened, for about 10 years, so i figured it was ok to drill some holes through it and mount it on the rotary table
08:10 PM roycroft: that was actually pretty funny
08:11 PM roycroft: because when i came up with the idea i was horrified at the thought of drilling holes through a chuck like that, but i could not figure out why i was horrified
08:11 PM roycroft: so i came here to this channel and posed the question
08:11 PM roycroft: the reaction from everyone was that they were horrified at the thought
08:11 PM roycroft: but when pressed as to why, nobody could figure out why
08:11 PM roycroft: it just seems wrong
08:12 PM roycroft: i went ahead and did it
08:12 PM roycroft: i've only used it a couple or three times, but it has workd out well
08:13 PM roycroft: and while a bit more fiddly to set up, it's more accurate than a 3 jaw would be
08:14 PM roycroft: i had one part to make where i had to mount an x-y table on top of the rotary table
08:14 PM roycroft: that setup took a long time
08:14 PM roycroft: and on my mini mill i barely had room to mount the part on top of the stack when all was set up
08:14 PM roycroft: it's a good thing the part was only 1/2" thick :)
08:15 PM Tom_L: that's my concern with a dividing head
08:17 PM roycroft: what?
08:17 PM roycroft: the setup time or the clearance?
08:18 PM Tom_L: clearance
08:18 PM roycroft: keep in mind that i had a rotary table set on the mill table
08:18 PM roycroft: and then a fairly tall x-y table mounted on top of the rotary table
08:19 PM roycroft: there's plenty of clearance without that x-y table
08:19 PM Tom_L: well with an index head typically you're gonna be cutting on the side if it's horizontal
08:19 PM roycroft: unless you do something like mount a 12" rotary table on a mini-mill
08:20 PM roycroft: yeah, so if you have a 6" index head the center of your part is going to be 3" off the mill table
08:21 PM roycroft: actually more like 4"
08:21 PM Tom_L: i'd like to find a smaller one but they may not be out there
08:21 PM roycroft: my machine is an x3 clone
08:21 PM Tom_L: i've got 7" z
08:21 PM roycroft: oh, that's even less than i have
08:22 PM Tom_L: i've considered getting some longer rails
08:22 PM roycroft: i bought a harbor freight 4" one once
08:22 PM roycroft: i kept it for about 10 minutes
08:22 PM Tom_L: i got an x y table from somewhere i've never used
08:22 PM roycroft: it was not only horribly made, it was so small there was hardly any room to work with it as far as mounting parts and the like
08:23 PM roycroft: i think i'd be frustrated with even a well made 4" rotary table
08:23 PM roycroft: i'd like bigger than the 6" one that i bought
08:23 PM roycroft: but i just can't see putting anything bigger on my machine
08:23 PM roycroft: if i had a bridgeport class machine i'd go for a 10" or maybe even 12"
08:24 PM Tom_L: yeah if i wanted a rotary table it would be a different story
08:24 PM Tom_L: most of the ones i've seen have a 5" chuck
08:25 PM roycroft: i don't know what kind of parts you need to make, but it's pretty straightforward to make indexing plates for a lathe
08:25 PM roycroft: you might be able to make a milling setup for the lathe and do your indexing work on it
08:26 PM Tom_L: my lathe is shot
08:29 PM roycroft: aah, so that's out
08:30 PM roycroft: if you can use collets, you might be able to conserve space by using a collet holder instead of a chuck
08:38 PM unterhaus_: roycroft: I have a palmgren xy vise and it's really frustrating to use because there is not much travel. But it's a pretty nice vise.
08:39 PM unterhaus_: have thought about selling it before I drill any holes in it.
08:56 PM pink_vampire: no one here?
09:06 PM roycroft: we all have our masks on and are invisible
09:22 PM pink_vampire: poor Diresta all those tools but no 4 jaw independent and a dial indicator!! O_o https://youtu.be/HFegZMua30c?t=382 and the result https://youtu.be/HFegZMua30c?t=430
09:23 PM pink_vampire: all this video he is torture his lathe and mill and make every machinist want to cry
10:11 PM veegee: unterhaus_ I was about to buy this: https://www.globalindustrial.ca/p/tools/Grinders-Sanders/Grindes-Bench/9682082-bench-3-phase-grinder-wwheel-guards-dust-collection-ports-8-wheel-diav
10:11 PM veegee: Just because it's the only 3 phase bench grinder with a reasonable price
10:12 PM veegee: Other than that, never even heard of that brand before
10:18 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/_S_bGAuTN0s
10:19 PM veegee: Wait what is that an appropriate use for a CNC lathe?
10:19 PM veegee: Or is that more a "hey see what my G code can do!"
10:20 PM veegee: Also how is that underpowered? It seems like it's taking some decent material off
10:21 PM Tom_L: is that partially a function of the speed mode?
10:21 PM Tom_L: css
10:22 PM skunkworks: It is 'hey - linuxcnc is cool' ;)
10:23 PM skunkworks: no - it is just slowing down at the corner.. The mill - which has a bit stronger spindle - doesn't do that.
10:23 PM skunkworks: I plan on gearing it down a bit more. And a bit more tuning.
10:24 PM Tom_L: if you ever watched my sherline rigid tapping video, it stops too but made a good thread
10:25 PM skunkworks: currently it is about 3:1 - have the stuff coming to do 5:1
10:25 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g99lUtjLfMU
10:26 PM Tom_L: the axis follows it no matter what
10:26 PM skunkworks: right - same with the polygon turning
10:26 PM skunkworks: slaved motion
10:27 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: awesome!
10:27 PM pink_vampire: sherline with servo spindle!!!
10:27 PM Tom_L: that's an old one
10:27 PM pink_vampire: this is not your mill?
10:27 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire, that control is on my new mill now
10:28 PM Tom_L: as is the spindle
10:28 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7QulGiMt20
10:28 PM pink_vampire: what motor / controller are you using?
10:28 PM Tom_L: it's all sherline
10:28 PM Tom_L: i just put it on a bigger mill
10:29 PM Tom_L: the spindle that is
10:29 PM pink_vampire: but how do you read the position?
10:29 PM pink_vampire: how linux cnc controlled it?
10:29 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc7.jpg
10:29 PM Tom_L: added that to the spindle
10:30 PM Tom_L: and got rid of the V belt drive
10:30 PM pink_vampire: and linux cnc control the Z axis relative to that encoder??
10:30 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/old_pulley2.jpg
10:30 PM Tom_L: that was the setup when i did that video
10:31 PM Tom_L: i think
10:31 PM Tom_L: that was an old printer encoder
10:31 PM Tom_L: i since swapped it for a 500cpr one
10:31 PM skunkworks: pink_vampire: yes - no need for a 'servo' spindle. The Z axis is slaved to the spindle rotation/postion.
10:31 PM Tom_L: it's awesome
10:32 PM pink_vampire: skunkworks: this is nice!!!
10:32 PM pink_vampire: skunkworks: but yours is servo? or also slave to z?
10:33 PM skunkworks: everything I have posted is slaving
10:34 PM pink_vampire: can you do that on the LPT interface? or I need mesa card?
10:34 PM skunkworks: pink_vampire: it can be done with the printer port.. a 100 line encoder would be more than enough for most things.
10:35 PM Tom_L: dunno if there's enough io is there?
10:35 PM skunkworks: the little emco lathe has only 100 line
10:35 PM skunkworks: well - yes - you need the i/o
10:35 PM pink_vampire: I'm thinking about converting the lathe to cnc
10:35 PM skunkworks: the emco is printer port controlled - but only 1 channel + index encoder
10:36 PM pink_vampire: but I become very good just using the dials (no dro)
10:37 PM pink_vampire: I have the CUI AMT102 encoder
10:38 PM pink_vampire: so I just add a timing belt like GT2 from the axis of the lathe to an encoder, and replace the Z axis with servo and ball screw?
10:39 PM skunkworks: you would want X also...
10:40 PM pink_vampire: sure!
10:42 PM skunkworks: but yes - that is basically it.
10:42 PM skunkworks: if the mach people only knew how easy it is got get a treading lathe working...
10:42 PM skunkworks: threading
10:42 PM skunkworks: treadling?
10:43 PM pink_vampire: I want to make taper screw
10:43 PM skunkworks: Hmm - a cnc'ed threadle lathe...
10:44 PM pink_vampire: I wish I had something like that on the mill
10:44 PM skunkworks: or.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACvRilmIKDQ
10:48 PM pink_vampire: skunkworks: This is sooo cool
10:51 PM pink_vampire: is that make sense 80mm diameter slitting saw, 72 tooth, in aluminum, 485 rpm, and 887 mm/min feed??
10:52 PM Tom_L: sounds approximate
10:52 PM Tom_L: what's the chip load?
10:56 PM pink_vampire: no idea
10:56 PM pink_vampire: I just did 0.001
10:57 PM pink_vampire: like 0.25mm
10:57 PM Tom_L: my spindle isn't beefy enough for cutters like that
10:57 PM Tom_L: i tried one
10:57 PM pink_vampire: HSS, 72 tooth, 80mm diameter, 1.2mm thickness of the blade - material 6061 T6
10:58 PM pink_vampire: try to put it on the 60K spindle
10:58 PM Tom_L: i wouldn't :)
11:01 PM pink_vampire: you must use carbide seam to connect the blade, so it will be able to snap and fly
11:47 PM flyback: https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G24332
11:57 PM pink_vampire: flyback: for?
11:58 PM flyback: sorry chat lcient got killed again
11:58 PM flyback: just thought it was a good deal on solar panels