#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 10 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:03 AM pink_vampire: hi
12:08 AM pink_vampire: any idea for non-oil zero mess cutting lubricants?
12:08 AM CaptHindsight: W1N9Zr0: NX, MasterCAM etc
12:08 AM jymmmm: pink_vampire: air
12:08 AM jymmmm: pink_vampire: cotton candy
12:08 AM pink_vampire: not funny
12:08 AM jymmmm: pink_vampire: hydrogen
12:10 AM CaptHindsight: spread spectrum switching regulators
12:10 AM jymmmm: ve7it: screw that, gimme batteries and solar panels
12:10 AM CaptHindsight: Alumalube
12:11 AM pink_vampire: jymmmm: but they say "except magnesium"
12:11 AM jymmmm: ve7it: A friend has grid tie, during a blackout he cant even power his house in the summertime, HE's lloking into batteries now
12:11 AM jymmmm: pink_vampire: and you said alumnim
12:12 AM pink_vampire: I sad steel
12:12 AM jymmmm: stell aint magnesium
12:12 AM pink_vampire: I'm working with aluminum, brass, steel and bronze
12:12 AM jymmmm: pink_vampire: and it's cinnamon scented
12:13 AM pink_vampire: that is a minus!
12:13 AM jymmmm: I'm out of ideas then
12:16 AM jymmmm: Hmmm, I wonder how many amps I can put thru a 1/4-20 bolt?
12:17 AM t4nk_freenode: 2!
12:19 AM ve7it: 42
12:19 AM jymmmm: 100A would do, eh, maybe 3/8 instead
12:20 AM ve7it: would that be a spanish 1/4-20 or a south african 1/4-20 bolt?
12:20 AM pink_vampire: try like 100KA for very short time, film in slowmo
12:20 AM t4nk_freenode: and perhaps 6546³*10⁹⁷⁸, though it may break :|
12:20 AM ve7it: and its not even the weekend...
12:21 AM CaptHindsight: #linuxcnc tis a very silly place
12:21 AM t4nk_freenode: it reminds me of melting aluminium through induction though... that would be cool
12:23 AM jymmmm: 7s8P would give 1100WH's
01:29 AM miss0r2: goodmorning
01:34 AM miss0r2: I'm looking for a plug/connector that can handle 100A at 12VDC. It has to be water tight, and it has to be able to be sealed off when it is not connected. Do any of you guys have an idea?
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: miss0r2: should be a few choices, none low cost
01:54 AM miss0r2: that is beginning to dawn on me
01:54 AM CaptHindsight: miss0r2: how many contacts?
01:55 AM miss0r2: I was hoping for either A) a single connector with two contacts in it and an additional connector with 4 low power contacts in it. B) one complete unit with two high power contacts and 4 low power ones
01:56 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.te.com/usa-en/products/connectors/rectangular-connectors.html
01:56 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-T2060001025-000.html
01:56 AM CaptHindsight: oh sealed when not connected sorry
01:57 AM miss0r2: well.. it will be alright if the sealing is done with a dummy plug or something like that
01:57 AM CaptHindsight: https://ebhorsman.com/itemDetail?p=180259 similar but lower priced?
01:58 AM miss0r2: meh well.. I was honnestly hoping for one that could be surface mounted.
01:58 AM miss0r2: i.e. not needing to be mounted through anything
01:58 AM CaptHindsight: http://www.sourceresearch.com/CategoryLevOne.cfm?CatLevelOne=256&CategoryID=145&CatLevelTwo=238
01:59 AM CaptHindsight: what will hold it?
01:59 AM CaptHindsight: just flopping on the end of a cable?
01:59 AM miss0r2: I will be mounting it to the chassis of the land rover
01:59 AM miss0r2: but I wouldn't want to drill a large hole through the chassis
02:00 AM miss0r2: no connectors flopping around in the breeze here, thank you very much :D
02:00 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Pin-Sleeve-Connectors-100-Amp-Connectors/Leviton/4100C9W/product.aspx?zpid=250031 cable end?
02:00 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.lockingpowercords.com/products/407-hubbell-hbl4100p5w-twist-lock-plug.aspx
02:01 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/c/1183080760
02:01 AM miss0r2: meh. I was thinking of something along the line of a Harting connector. Just with a smaller price tag :D
02:03 AM miss0r2: https://media.digikey.com/Photos/Harting/10200100000.jpg
02:03 AM CaptHindsight: ok so you have a cable inside the chassis
02:03 AM CaptHindsight: how does it it exit without using a hole?
02:04 AM miss0r2: cable not inside the chassis
02:04 AM miss0r2: :)
02:04 AM CaptHindsight: what will hold the connector?
02:04 AM miss0r2: Perhaps that picture was flawed. I have bought connector bases with a cable gland in the seide before
02:04 AM miss0r2: The chassis mounted one has four screws threaded into the chassis
02:05 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/p/Appleton-Efsc110-2023-N7-9-Nma5-20R-Rcpt/5735696 so similar
02:05 AM miss0r2: so I obviously will have to drill *some* holes in the chassis, I just don't want to drill a 80mm hole to accomidate one of those connectors that has to go all the way through
02:05 AM CaptHindsight: so a receptacle in a box
02:05 AM miss0r2: yeah, something like that
02:07 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.grainger.com/product/BRYANT-100-Amp-49YY03
02:07 AM CaptHindsight: likely something like this ^^ and then you make your own box
02:08 AM miss0r2: but hot damn that is a pricy unit
02:09 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/HUBBELL-HBL4100P9W-HBL4100R9W-100-Amp-WELDER-PLUG-RECEPTACLE-250V-100A-3P-4W-/161089603394 for the mated pair
02:09 AM miss0r2: Hmm. I will have to think about it :D
02:10 AM CaptHindsight: just the receptacle https://www.ebay.com/itm/LEVITON-4100R9W-100-Amp-PIN-SLEEVE-WELDER-RECEPTACLE-HBL4100R9W-250V-100A-3W-4P/163764867299
02:10 AM miss0r2: Thanks for the assist. I have to run now (clients knocking)
02:12 AM Loetmichel: *GOOOODDD MOOOOOORNING, VIET^W CHANNEL!!!!* (I think the coffee this morning was a bit strong ;)
02:23 AM CaptHindsight: miss0r2: ~$6ea ?! https://saip.en.alibaba.com/product/60775899488-805195941/3_Phase_Australia_125Amp_380V_400V_Three_Phase_Socket.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.41413.31.52b766e2cYziwM
02:24 AM CaptHindsight: https://saip.en.alibaba.com/product/60775904227-805195941/Waterproof_Electrical_Power_Outlet_Wall_Mounted_Power_Outlet_Socket.html
02:47 AM CaptHindsight: miss0r2: https://elecdirect.com/cam-lock-connectors/150-amp-cam-lock-connectors
02:53 AM veegee: I love my little kitty cat so much
02:53 AM veegee: She's the sweetest thing in the world
02:54 AM veegee: It's strange how cats and dogs can love you like that. I don't really know of other animals that bond with humans on that level
02:55 AM veegee: I know rodents do to a certain extent
04:26 AM XXCoder: hey
04:26 AM XXCoder: hey pink_vampire
04:26 AM pink_vampire: hi
04:26 AM pink_vampire: I finished the bushing for the multifix
04:26 AM pink_vampire: from 8 to 13 mm
04:26 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/O7eVU4k.png
04:26 AM XXCoder: multifix?
04:27 AM pink_vampire: yes AA
04:27 AM XXCoder: whats it
04:27 AM pink_vampire: QCTP
04:27 AM XXCoder: ah lathe tool, change thing
04:27 AM pink_vampire: tes
04:27 AM pink_vampire: yes*
04:28 AM pink_vampire: I had to make longer bolt for it https://i.imgur.com/TlE3VY9.png
04:29 AM XXCoder: that looks nicely done
04:30 AM pink_vampire: thanks!
04:31 AM XXCoder: 10 hours for me, to make 5 parts lol
04:31 AM XXCoder: so boring
04:33 AM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/ERzs5c6.png
04:33 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^
04:33 AM XXCoder: yea
05:05 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:06 AM XXCoder: yo
07:38 AM Tom_L: power back on
08:12 AM sensille: hm. where do i want to mount the lathe on the table? more to the front or to the back?
08:26 AM Tom_L: front
08:30 AM sensille: ok
08:37 AM perry_j1987: morning
08:49 AM veek: what's G.C wheel stand for.. (grinding..)
09:06 AM perry_j1987: green silicon carbide?
09:16 AM veek: thanks
09:22 AM veek: perry_j1987, DC wheel? deburring carbide wheel?
09:23 AM veek: convolute
09:24 AM perry_j1987: google says DC is some process done to the wheel, slots grooves holes etc
09:34 AM veek: perry_j1987, link?
09:34 AM perry_j1987: googled for dc grinding wheel
09:34 AM perry_j1987: found a mfg or wiki page that said stuff about it
09:34 AM veek: thanks
09:46 AM veek: perry_j1987, is there a book that goes into the nitty gritty of power tool accessories.. sizes, dimensions, standards, varieties
09:46 AM perry_j1987: google is what i use
09:46 AM perry_j1987: its rare that i crack a book on any subject these days
09:47 AM veek: that's because you'r probably already awesome at all this
09:49 AM perry_j1987: far from it haha
09:54 AM veek: in that case check out Ettlinger
10:58 AM HexaCube: sup folks
10:59 AM HexaCube: Hello pcw_home , I was told you owned a Cloudray Galvo scanner head?
11:00 AM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: he's wondering what the IO differential voltage levels are
11:00 AM CaptHindsight: XY2-100
11:17 AM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
11:23 AM Loetmichel: hehe, just got a chance again to do the quarter mile on the way home with the "new" BMW 318ci convertible... 16.5 sec. not bad for a 143hp car. also: that exhaust leat isnt THAT annoying. at idle its quiet, like a baby blowing bubbles, only when you floor it it sounds like a big mean angry dog growling. nothing of that "BRAAAAAAAAAP" you often hear from japan motorcycles. :)
11:26 AM jymmmm: crotch rockets
11:27 AM pcw_home: RS-422 levels
11:29 AM HexaCube: pcw_home: so it really is differential? +-3V?
11:30 AM HexaCube: wait no, huh. Why do I keep finding conflicting info on this >:/
11:34 AM pcw_home: Its RS-422 so differential 2 to 5V should be OK
11:34 AM pcw_home: probably uses 26LS32 or similar receivers
11:35 AM HexaCube: AMD yours is made by cloud ray? Or is it a similar galvo?
11:35 AM HexaCube: And*
11:36 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: whats a crotch rocket?
11:37 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: motorcycle for speed, as opposed to a full dress touring bike
11:37 AM pcw_home: Not really sure who made it (CloudRay is just a big laser product aggregator)
11:38 AM pcw_home: but its CloudsRay's $165 cheap-o (unfortunately the Theta-F lenses are expensive for Blue)
11:39 AM Loetmichel: ah
11:39 AM Loetmichel: yes.
11:39 AM Loetmichel: thats what i meant
11:40 AM CaptHindsight: https://www.dragzine.com/files/2011/03/larrymcbride.jpg
11:41 AM Loetmichel: they usuall do a high pitched "sharp" BRAAAAAAP" when they accelerate, thats totally absent on my car, it is more like a BIG dogs annoyed growl if you know what i mean
11:44 AM HexaCube: pcw_home: okay, thank you 100 times for that info =) I'm not sure I would have been brave enough to buy one without knowing how to drive it :P
11:47 AM pcw_home: very basic XY2-100 interface 16 bits X,Y data no feedback
11:49 AM HexaCube: Yeah I think with this months payday I'll order one, plus a red laserpointer for playing/testing :D
11:54 AM CaptHindsight: HexaCube: you have to order the right type of mirrors for your laser
11:54 AM HexaCube: yeah I'm aware but I think it's safe to say that a mirror meant for CO2 will also reflect a laserpointer :P
11:55 AM HexaCube: just for uh... visualising what I'm doing heh
11:55 AM CaptHindsight: a red laser pointer will work with any of the mirror types but if you are planning on sintering then you have to get the mirrors for that range of wavelength
11:55 AM HexaCube: right right, cloudray offers a 10.6µm option =)
11:55 AM CaptHindsight: ok, just so you know, many don't
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: and matching f-theta lens
11:56 AM HexaCube: yup, that's the spendy part sadly
11:56 AM HexaCube: but I don't need that either for initial testing :D
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: for CO2 it's a singlet
11:56 AM HexaCube: a $200 singlet >:(
11:56 AM CaptHindsight: always check used on ebay
11:57 AM HexaCube: ohhh, good point, they're standardised!
11:57 AM CaptHindsight: good enough to play with
12:01 PM HexaCube: just gotta find a cheap EU source for a co2 tube
12:01 PM HexaCube: amazon seems really shady heh
12:10 PM sync: the chinese f-theta lenses are really cheap tho
12:27 PM pcw_home: CO2 and Fiber are cheap, not blue
12:33 PM pcw_home: although CloudRay recently dropped the price of one of their blue ones from $375 to $280 so I might get one to play with
12:43 PM HexaCube: pcw_home: what do you mean by blue?
12:43 PM HexaCube: UV?
12:47 PM CaptHindsight: 450-ish nanometer
12:48 PM HexaCube: ""UV"" :P
01:23 PM veegee: I'm going to DIY build an aftercooler for my compressor
01:23 PM veegee: what do people generally use for the radiator?
01:24 PM veegee: Something cheap and available
01:39 PM jymmmm: LOX
01:40 PM JT-Cave: crap my fence components will arrive next week
01:40 PM JT-Cave: now I have to work
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: automotive is usually the lowest cost
01:48 PM veegee: CaptHindsight like car radiator?
01:48 PM CaptHindsight: maybe a heater core
01:48 PM veegee: oh righ
01:49 PM veegee: just has to be able to handle 200 psi
01:49 PM CaptHindsight: depends on how much you need to cool
01:49 PM veegee: It's a 11kW 2 stage compressor
01:49 PM veegee: the whole air tank gets hot after a while of continuous running
01:50 PM CaptHindsight: mine is slightly smaller and i have a finned tube a few feet long
01:50 PM veegee: Mine has that too, right behind the flywheel
01:50 PM veegee: not nearly enough
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: ~1" dia tube with 2-3" fins spaces every 1/4"
01:51 PM veegee: After 1 hour of continuous pumping at 150 psi, the cylinder head outlet is at 170ºC
01:51 PM veegee: air tank is at 50ºC
01:51 PM CaptHindsight: similar
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: forced convection cools more than natural
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: coils with fan
01:52 PM CaptHindsight: but then you have more moving parts
01:52 PM veegee: I have lots of fans
01:53 PM veegee: from 2kW impeller blowers to 120mm 300CFM server fans
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: surface area + fans
01:53 PM veegee: Just need a radiator. I think you're right, automotive heater core is the way to go
01:53 PM veegee: Yeah for sure, more surface area than anything
01:53 PM CaptHindsight: thanks <bow>
01:54 PM veegee: The tenant of the unit beside us is an ass. He places his lumber right outside the entrance
01:54 PM veegee: Luckily I have a forklift to assist him and kindly movie it right in front of his garage door where it's most accessible to him
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: well you weren't there
01:55 PM CaptHindsight: so he got used to it
01:55 PM veegee: There was another tenant before us
01:56 PM veegee: It was never unoccupied, definitely not at the prices the landlord was offering. The only reason the previous tenant moved out is because they needed more space
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: several units around me have gone bust...
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: but it just figures that the one next to me is doing fine and like to make noise
01:57 PM veegee: But landlord is a nice guy. He sent a letter threatening legal action if he doesn't stop doing stupid shit like putting sharp fence wire right in front of the door to the hallway entrance
01:57 PM veegee: Literally _anywhere_ else would be fine
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: we had one with a barking dog in their office
01:57 PM CaptHindsight: we always knew when a delivery truck was nearby
01:58 PM veegee: ah, we only have cute alley kitty cats
01:58 PM veegee: I bought treats for them for tonight
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: we have skunks, coyotes, geese and wasps
01:59 PM jymmmm: Ok, this seems bogus, no vehicle fan... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoIocPgOug
01:59 PM veegee: Ah yeah the wasps I would make a project out of
01:59 PM veegee: some creative way to destroy their nests
01:59 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: We got yelljackets, fox, pecocks, bears and mnt lions
02:00 PM jymmmm: skunks and squirrels
02:00 PM veegee: I have a hunting bow and arrows.
02:00 PM veegee: And a very powerful air blow gun
02:00 PM jymmmm: and deer
02:00 PM veegee: No wasps here though. Or I'd light an arrowhead on fire and shoot it right into the nest
02:01 PM veegee: Or spray with a nice mix of gaoline and kerosine, which would absorb very well into the hydrocarbon material their nest is made of
02:01 PM veegee: And then shoot a flaming arrow into it
02:06 PM veegee: Wasps are really the only animal I can think of off the top of my head that I'll gladly murder with no guilt.
02:07 PM veegee: Oh also mosquitoes and ticks but they don't nest so not really fun to hunt them
02:08 PM Rab: Here we have fire ants. No mercy: http://www.anthillart.com/
02:09 PM Rab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsbNlqNa_d0
02:09 PM jdh: CaptHindsight: Absolute accuracy± 2.5 mm (> 3 m); on that PF sensor
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: jdh: mag strip is lowest cost, if that doesn't work out let me know, i can build a laser system if you really want
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: IF you have room for a tube the length of the machine
02:13 PM CaptHindsight: mag strip will get you to the few micon range easily and cheaply
02:17 PM veegee: By the way Knipex cobras are the best: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000X4J2IY/
02:18 PM veegee: Especially the big 16 and 22" ones. Regular pipe wrenches are way too sloppy
02:18 PM veegee: The pliers wrench ones are also really good. I find myself reaching for the pliers wrench and the cobras like 90% of the time.
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: ever have to hang on a pipe wrench and then have to ask for someone to add their weight?
02:20 PM veegee: At that point I'd just get the 60" version of this: https://www.ridgid.com/ca/en/straight-pipe-wrench
02:21 PM veegee: I have the 18" and 24" ones but I generally turn nuts that require that much force by turning the other end in the opposite direction, so it cancels the shear force
02:22 PM veegee: on certain things like refrigerated air dryers, no shear force is allowed or you damage the intake/output fitting
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: Do not use come-a-longs, chain hoists, handle extensions, backhoes, threading machines, drill rigs or
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: other mechanical, hydraulic or powered devices to activate pipe wrenches to install or remove (make or break) fittings. Do not use excessive force.
02:22 PM veegee: a regular pipe wrench is too sloppy for that. Only way is two opposing cobras with equal force from each hand
02:23 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, I've had three dudes bouncing on a 5ft cheater bar. Too late we realized the fastener was left-hand thread: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/victim.jpg
02:23 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: have done it as well
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: you feel so dumb, the nuts we were trying to break were even labelled LH
02:24 PM veegee: The Ridgid ones are ductile iron which is nice. I'd take ductile iron over cast iron for hand tools any day
02:24 PM veegee: Or forged steel, even better
02:24 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, there is an 'L' clearly stamped into that stud as well.
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: haha yeah
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: what day is it?
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: my lesson was always check the thread
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: had to use the cut off wheel on a pitman arm last weekend
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: 33mm nut
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: 20 years of rust
02:29 PM CaptHindsight: friend came by with truck, on the way over it started to shake
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: arrived to find multiple steering items worn, 10 hour project to get him back on the road
02:30 PM CaptHindsight: with torches and a machine shop available
02:33 PM andypugh: Use the torches to set the truck on fire. Claim on the insurance.
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: the thought crossed my mind
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: 4 tie rods, pittman arm, idler arm, bearing and hub, power steering box adjustment
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: but FORD, 20 years old, all original parts, 225K miles
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: so they got their moneys worth out of the originals
02:40 PM andypugh: Yeah buy a new one. Pay my wages. :-)
02:41 PM Rab: Does anybody know of an off-the-shelf motion control product, in the few $K USD range, which can drive a few 2A steppers and can be programmed with an arbitrary protocol translation layer? The application is replacing an old embedded controller from the '80s, I think it uses something like a non-standard HPGL variant over serial.
02:43 PM Rab: So the controller could accept user-defined ASCII strings as motion control commands.
02:45 PM Rab: I could probably put haxed grbl in a box with some geckodrives, but that seems like cheaping out for an industrial application with that kind of budget. And it would be great if it lasted another 30 years so I don't have to support it.
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.faberinc.com/ProDex/Pro-Dex_Multi_Axis_Controllers.pdf
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: MAXp motion controllers are easily programmed with ASCII character commands
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: no idea of price https://www.newmarksystems.com/motion-controllers/nsc-g-series/
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: how do you define Octoprint?
02:49 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, those both look great. I'll check them out. Thanks!
02:50 PM andypugh: Rab: How about LinuxCNC and a custom interpreter?
02:50 PM CaptHindsight: no problem, now to work on my stuff
02:50 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: I would call Octoprint a print server.
02:51 PM Rab: andypugh, that seems easy and obvious, but then I'd have to support a PC.
02:52 PM andypugh: Rab: Take a look at sim/axis/canterp for an example of a liniuxCNC config that uses somethung other than G-code.
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: yesterday I was asking around to see what LCNC lacks to support CNC glue gun printers
02:53 PM Rab: andypugh, thanks!
02:53 PM andypugh: I am pretty sure that Cradek has a LinuxCNC glue-gun
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: G29 self levelling compensation
02:53 PM andypugh: Probekins?
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: for floppy printers
02:54 PM andypugh: (Though you would use external offsets now)
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: what good is it if the printer is so wobbly that it changes over the course of the print?
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: it's like having variable lash
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: if my delta printer is $5k in parts, do i really need an Arduino to control it?
02:57 PM sync: pcw_home: even $375 is cheap
02:59 PM CaptHindsight: pcw_home: used on ebay for <$100 last time i checked
03:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/F-Theta-Flat-Field-Lens-for-405nm-450-455-460nm-UV-Blue-Laser-Marking-F-04/113918787985
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/F-Theta-Flat-Field-Lens-for-405nm-450-455-460nm-UV-Blue-Laser-Marking/274337974371 might fit
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: seems to have several and near you https://www.ebay.com/itm/F-Theta-Flat-Field-Lens-for-405nm-450-455-460nm-UV-Blue-Laser-Marking-F-01/253997611972
03:08 PM pcw_home: Yeah I saw that and its OK (though a bit of a pain to mount)
03:10 PM pcw_home: (compared to standard lens that just screws into the galvanometer housing)
03:36 PM veegee: What's the best way to bend copper tube into a shape of a coil? Fill it with sand and wrap it around a round object?
03:37 PM veegee: I guess blowtorch at the bending point helps a lot
03:38 PM gregcnc: jymmmm there is a reason the comments are off on that alternator video
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: veegee: best is a proper coil bender, sand may work adequately. It's lots easier with light bends
03:41 PM veegee: Ah ok thanks
03:41 PM gregcnc: cerrobend is also an option
03:42 PM roycroft: how big is the tubing?
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: tube diameter and coil diameter and how thickwall tube?
03:42 PM roycroft: heating the tubing at the bend point won't help
03:43 PM roycroft: annealing the tubing before bending will
03:43 PM roycroft: and annealing copper is easy
03:43 PM roycroft: you don't have to control the cooling at all
03:43 PM roycroft: just heat it up, quench it, and you have soft copper
03:45 PM roycroft: or heat it up and let it air cool, and you'll still have soft copper
03:45 PM roycroft: or heat it up, ramp the temperature down over the course of a few days, and you'll still have soft copper
03:48 PM SpeedEvil: I have wondered if you quench it hard enough, you could lead to a work hardening of the surface due to induced strain.
03:48 PM SpeedEvil: I doubt it though
03:53 PM roycroft: my experience with copper is that it really doesn't mater at all
03:53 PM roycroft: matter
03:53 PM roycroft: brass is a little fussier
03:53 PM roycroft: but even brass can be quenched and still remain pretty soft
03:53 PM roycroft: depending on the composition of the alloy
03:54 PM roycroft: i should imagine that when you get half-hard copper it's copper that's been partially heated and then extruded
03:54 PM roycroft: and not annealed after extrusion
04:00 PM SpeedEvil: I was wondering about vacuum casting brass a while back, then I realised you basically can't.
04:01 PM SpeedEvil: - at melting point, the vapour pressure of zinc is atmospheric
04:03 PM pcw_home: I recall that brass was a no-no in vacuum equipment because of zincs vapor pressure even at room temperature
04:04 PM XXCoder: fill with neteral gas?
04:06 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: Heh, I didn't notice =)
04:07 PM gregcnc: running an alternator at 1500RPM if you intend to charge a 300Ah battery is not a good idea
04:07 PM gregcnc: it's not even a good idea to try it in most cars
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: is full of neutral gas :p
04:08 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: what is?
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: you are
04:08 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: ? about?
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: sorry to distract
04:09 PM gregcnc: if you search you can find performance plots of alternators and use then appropriately
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: for example https://www.sbmar.com/articles/popular-cummins-marine-delco-alternator-power-output-curves/
04:11 PM jymmmm: OH, I stopped by a small engine repair shop and asked about oil in the air filter. He said that can be caused by some automotive oils rather than air cooled engine oils. I had been using the cheapest oil I could find in a jug since I do some many oil changes. But hit a generator and oil forum and both mention using T6 or a Casto full synthetic.
04:12 PM jymmmm: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ICSWGJ0/
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: the Walmart full synthetic is pretty good
04:13 PM jymmmm: Well T6 but I caouldn't find a 30 weight https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LH7L0KS/
04:13 PM gregcnc: aircooled oils? Like aircraft or harley?
04:14 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: generator, mower, etc
04:14 PM gregcnc: I like Rotella, for cars
04:15 PM gregcnc: yeah but what's an aircooled oil? The only time I've seen anything specified as aircooled was two stroke oil
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: good stuff
04:16 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: IDK he mnetned honda oil, but it's $7 a quart
04:16 PM gregcnc: what was his claim about air cooled oil?
04:17 PM jymmmm: he was kinda busy, but that was the jest of it
04:19 PM gregcnc: even honda calls for automotive oil
04:21 PM jymmmm: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/825250/1
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"
04:21 PM gregcnc: discussing oil is like religion
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: proper weight and change regularly
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: most the rest is pure hokum
04:24 PM jymmmm: Heh, I never realized there's a forum JSUT for oil alone, hahaha
04:24 PM gregcnc: hah it always turns up searching anything about oil
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: use the right weight, test the oil after it runs for a while
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: the only way to know how well it's working and when it may be changed
04:27 PM jymmmm: I dont have any plans of sending oil off to be tested
04:28 PM gregcnc: at 20 hour intervals I wouldn't put any more thought into it at all
04:28 PM jymmmm: I'll go for the castro full syn and change it daily
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: chnage before it gets too dirty
04:28 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: I was changing it ever 2 days, didn't look too bad, but I'll got for one day instead
04:29 PM jymmmm: go*
04:29 PM gregcnc: utility down?
04:29 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: They anticipate blackouts, last year it was a 5 day blackout, so ran the gen 18 hours a day
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: wow that was last summer with the projector for town movies?
04:31 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Yeah
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: fast year
04:32 PM jymmmm: all in october by my log
06:51 PM pink_vampire: we need to help him become a linuxcnc user https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J66PmxXkeXs
06:59 PM andypugh: www.xkcd.com/386 (I had to comment)
07:08 PM * XXCoder spy andy's comment there
07:35 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest25117
07:42 PM XXCoder: you want that linuxcnc lathe test rook right? ;)
07:43 PM pink_vampire: or maybe dro
07:48 PM andypugh: I like to use my lathe as a CAM-free CNC. So I can just walk up to it, put some metal in and makie things.
07:50 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIYMfyf4jDI&t explains
07:50 PM pink_vampire: yeah, I want to make it CNC just for the MDI
07:52 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: NICE!
07:53 PM pink_vampire: but what do I need for it from the hardware side?
07:53 PM pink_vampire: what motors?
07:53 PM jdh: nice chips
07:54 PM andypugh: That is all Nema 23 steppers and normal stepper drives.
07:55 PM andypugh: That macro setup is in sim/gmoccapy/lathemacro
07:59 PM pink_vampire: what motor are you using for the spindle?
08:00 PM andypugh: That was a 1hp 3-phase motor, I think
08:00 PM andypugh: That was my previous cheap chinese lathe,
08:02 PM pink_vampire: I'm not sure how to convert the cross slide
08:03 PM andypugh: The lathe in the video is using an 8mm ball screw.
08:04 PM andypugh: But, for a lathe conversion, you can leave the X on a normal leadscrew for most work, it is very unusual for the cut direction to reverese on a lathe.
08:04 PM jdh: the X should be pretty trivial though
08:05 PM roycroft: but it's long
08:05 PM roycroft: and it would be expensive to replace
08:05 PM andypugh: There is not much room for a ball nut on most of these lathes.
08:05 PM andypugh: I had to get really quite inventive on that conversion.
08:06 PM andypugh: (Sadly all drawings and photos are lost to history)
08:06 PM pink_vampire: it is almost feel like I need to make new cross slide
08:07 PM jdh: you would have lots of room since you could ditch the compound
08:08 PM XXCoder: can make those swappable? cnc stright and compound when want manual
08:09 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/DYSssrWPUtys5S4LA is the best photo I seem to have
08:09 PM andypugh: Ignore the A-axis motor.
08:09 PM jdh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/J64z9G26i4nVzuHd8
08:10 PM jdh: I tried on the side.
08:10 PM pink_vampire: yeah, this is what I had in mind,
08:11 PM pink_vampire: but I'm more concern about the motor for the spindle, encoder, controller, and stuff like that
08:11 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
08:11 PM jdh: someone else with a similar lathe milled the end of the cross slide then flipped it around 180
08:11 PM jdh: lets you get closer to the headstock
08:12 PM jdh: spindle, encoder, controller seem fairly simple vs. mechanicals for the cross slide
08:12 PM andypugh: The X axis motor is under the saddle, it drives a small T2.5 belt pinion on the X screw. It has to be a small pinion to fit under the cross-slide as it slides back. There is a needle roller bearing next to the pinion to take the belt tension forces. The thrust loads are handled separately, by a pair of angular contact bearings mounted in the manual handle housing.
08:13 PM jdh: ^^ see, trivial compared to taht.
08:14 PM pink_vampire: right now I'm using 350RPM for everything, and it is +- Ok, but as a cnc I'm not sure how good it will be
08:15 PM jdh: DC speed controller is cheap & easy
08:15 PM veegee: My dehumidifier is taking out water from the air faster than my water distiller is putting out
08:15 PM jdh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/J64z9G26i4nVzuHd8 spindle encoder wheel
08:15 PM andypugh: But then I wasn’t aiming for simple, I wanted to do something that satisfied me. In the end the whole lathe left me dissatisfied and my next convesion was the Holbrook which probably cost me 5x as much. But is far prettier.
08:16 PM jdh: I was just going for cheap.
08:16 PM andypugh: https://goo.gl/photos/2dwiVYxDTyD9ibti6
08:16 PM veegee: I should probably use the water collected by the dehumidifier and distill that. It would at least have no mineral in it, but probably full of other contaminants from the air
08:17 PM andypugh: Is the Holbrook. I did crazy things like re-machine the rotor and case of a servo motor to make it shorter :-)
08:18 PM veegee: Ha! You call that crazy?
08:18 PM veegee: I was doing hookers and coke while you were doing that
08:18 PM jdh: and cast a new headstock?
08:18 PM veegee: only between hookers
08:19 PM veegee: need a break from time to time
08:19 PM jdh: and lemo connectors
08:19 PM andypugh: I had several new castings made, but that big one is the feeds hearbox replacement. I have a 1kW Z axis motor.
08:19 PM pink_vampire: veegee: it is not a DC motor it is dual AC motor
08:20 PM veegee: I was just being stupid, I'm not even part of this conversation
08:21 PM veegee: Just complaining about how hot and humid it is in Toronto since the past couple of weeks. Worse than I can remember it ever being
08:21 PM pink_vampire: and also there is the thread making on the lathe, that without controlling the spindle I can't do
08:22 PM andypugh: I used the Z-axis servo to drill the hole for the Z ballscrew in exactly the right place, like this: https://photos.app.goo.gl/xyimKVjCoQJ14cecA
08:22 PM jdh: pink_vampire: treadmill motor & dc controller (also going cheap)
08:23 PM pink_vampire: jdh: but how it will talk degrees?
08:23 PM andypugh: pink_vampire: You don’t actually need control of the spindle motor to thead on a lathe. You only need an encoder to _measure_ what the spindle is doing.
08:23 PM veegee: now this is also a question I've had - do CNC lathes cut threads without mechanical coupling of the spindle to the feed?
08:23 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: SMART!!!! <3
08:24 PM veegee: But yes you just answered that
08:24 PM veegee: measure spindle, control the feed based on what the spindle is doing
08:25 PM veegee: optical encoder on the spindle/motor and servos on the x/y
08:25 PM andypugh: Exactly
08:27 PM veegee: My lathe has a VFD and constant surface speed system, so it's already half way there
08:27 PM veegee: I can easily make it CNC
08:27 PM jdh: heh
08:31 PM _unreal_: ve7it, so i'm not really sure what to do as far as comunication with the controllers
08:31 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: what servos are you using?
08:32 PM _unreal_: ve7it, any way I could manually test the controllers like adding a POT or something just to ensure the controlers are making the motors work?
08:32 PM veegee: pink_vampire for my CNC conversions, these are the ones I'm planning to use: https://www.teknic.com/model-info/CPM-SDSK-2311S-EQN/
08:32 PM _unreal_: remove the dspic and use a pic just to test them? also wondering if there is a way to use an arduino to serial into the dspic instead of using the serial chip
08:33 PM veegee: pink_vampire Well clear path is what I meant to link: https://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/
08:33 PM _unreal_: I dont know if the issue is the usb serial adapter? or something else
08:33 PM andypugh: pink_vampire: On the lathe? I can’t remember. They were cheap on eBay (probably because they use resolvers) But I like resolvers.
08:33 PM veegee: _unreal_ I know a thing or two about this, what are you trying to do?
08:33 PM _unreal_: I have my contollers all setup
08:33 PM pink_vampire: how do you communicate with the resolver?
08:34 PM _unreal_: every thing should be ready and working but I cant seem to serial into the controllers I built
08:34 PM andypugh: 7i49
08:34 PM veegee: _unreal_ you mean you can't talk to them over UART? directly to the dsPIC?
08:34 PM _unreal_: right
08:34 PM Tom_L: always good when a plan comes together
08:34 PM veegee: You have logic in there to handle comms over UART of course, yes?
08:34 PM _unreal_: my only working serial port is a USB to serial adapter
08:34 PM unterhaus_: how hard is it to get from one side of london to the other? I've only been there on zwift
08:35 PM _unreal_: I have an old pentium laptop with a serial port on it but my PSU has gone missing
08:35 PM _unreal_: I fgor the life of me can not find it. its dumb founding
08:35 PM veegee: _unreal_ what terminal and OS are you using on the host?
08:35 PM _unreal_: forgive the spelling. got a booboo aid on a finger
08:35 PM pink_vampire: so the resolver is get connected directly in to the 7i49?
08:35 PM veegee: _unreal_ do you have a TTL <-> RS232 level shifter?
08:36 PM _unreal_: well I currently am using my linuxcnc computer witht he USB to serial adapter
08:36 PM _unreal_: and minicom or something like that I forget the name
08:36 PM veegee: Don't tell me you're feeding RS232 voltages into the dsPIC directly
08:36 PM Tom_L: guy in canada sent me a dxf of a part for a bosch router no longer available so i put the cad cam to it and did this: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/coupler/Coupler2.jpg and found the part finally arrived yesterday and fits great: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1160550.jpg
08:36 PM _unreal_: I have an rs232 adapter
08:36 PM _unreal_: I followed ve7it's design from his web site to the TE
08:36 PM veegee: do you have an oscilloscope to check the signal at the dsPIC?
08:36 PM _unreal_: yes...
08:36 PM _unreal_: ish?
08:36 PM veegee: did you check the signal at the dsPIC? The level shifter? Essentially at all points
08:37 PM veegee: make sure it's not a physical layer issue
08:37 PM pink_vampire: Tom_L: what material is that? why not just 3d print it?
08:37 PM _unreal_: wtf did I do with it
08:37 PM Tom_L: he tried to 3d it and that failed
08:37 PM veegee: _unreal_ maybe add some code onto the dsPIC in an interrupt timer to constantly send some data
08:37 PM Tom_L: that's hdpe
08:37 PM veegee: then probe the line and make sure you can receive on your computer
08:38 PM _unreal_: found it
08:38 PM pink_vampire: what the part do?
08:38 PM Tom_L: http://ruemohr.org/~ircjunk/tempimage/p1160549.jpg
08:38 PM pink_vampire: it is like a gear?
08:38 PM Tom_L: links those 2 halves
08:38 PM pink_vampire: O_o
08:38 PM pink_vampire: no idea
08:39 PM Tom_L: me either but it worked
08:39 PM pink_vampire: for a router?
08:39 PM Tom_L: i think so
08:39 PM _unreal_: veegee, have this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32961503018.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.726e4c4dtkywoc
08:39 PM pink_vampire: maybe a torque limiter?
08:39 PM veegee: that's fine, anything that lets you see a signal
08:40 PM veegee: probe the system at the UART pins and level shifter pins and make sure the dsPIC is able to transmit
08:40 PM Tom_L: the 'weak link' in case something jams?
08:40 PM pink_vampire: Tom_L: yeah
08:40 PM _unreal_: when I send a signal I get what looks like hex code in return
08:40 PM _unreal_: Im not in front of that computer at this second
08:40 PM _unreal_: btw
08:41 PM _unreal_: I'd have to get it booted etc...
08:41 PM veegee: are your baud rate, stop bits, flow control, parity all set up properly?
08:41 PM _unreal_: 9600
08:41 PM _unreal_: 9600 1 8
08:41 PM _unreal_: or 900n8 something like that
08:42 PM veegee: well you don't have to tell _me_, I'm just asking if the host and target have the same settings
08:42 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, very standard. 9600 N 8 1
08:42 PM _unreal_: target I'm not sure but thats what veegee said
08:42 PM _unreal_: ya
08:42 PM _unreal_: ve7it,
08:42 PM Tom_L: 9600 baud, N o parity, 8 bits, 1 stop bit
08:43 PM XXCoder: JT-Cave: check this out. he has very different casting style than myfordboy https://youtu.be/bzdl7Vlf5-A
08:43 PM Tom_L: in case you wondered
08:43 PM veegee: ok well add some code to the dsPIC to transmit a hello world over and over again
08:43 PM XXCoder: lots similiarities tho
08:43 PM _unreal_: now if I connect the tx/rx together on the serial adapter I can pass the code and get the echo
08:43 PM roycroft: check flow control settings as well if you're not communicating with the serial port
08:43 PM _unreal_: so I am assume the issue is on the controller side
08:43 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, that just means it's transmitting from the pc
08:44 PM _unreal_: ether with the china serial RS232 or the dspic
08:44 PM Tom_L: do you have tx -> rx and rx -> tx on each end?
08:44 PM Tom_L: with a gnd
08:44 PM _unreal_: but all 4 controllers I built are doing the same thing
08:44 PM veegee: It's so simple to figure this out, just add some code on the dsPIC and make sure you can read from it
08:44 PM Tom_L: on a 9 pin it's pins 2 & 3 iirc
08:44 PM _unreal_: I am just connecting what is prvided from his web site and boar design
08:44 PM veegee: just have it loop data out on the UART
08:45 PM _unreal_: so GRND, tx, rx.
08:45 PM Tom_L: maybe on a db25 too for that matter
08:45 PM Tom_L: been too long...
08:45 PM _unreal_: I'm sure the serial is fine. its transmissing to its self
08:45 PM Tom_L: appears on that one there is no handshaking or there might be a couple more wires
08:45 PM pink_vampire: what was the black material that he used to secure the drill bits?
08:46 PM Tom_L: Xon Xoff or rts cts
08:46 PM _unreal_: being called for food
08:46 PM Tom_L: ack nak
08:46 PM Tom_L: sharks calling you?
08:46 PM veegee: Can't tell if he's the kid or the parent in this case
08:47 PM _unreal_: faulse alarm
08:47 PM Tom_L: hard to tell with him
08:47 PM _unreal_: staying with my father been fighting stage 4 cancer. at this point he has beaten it from the looks of it
08:47 PM roycroft: you might have to raise cts on the terminal side if the dce is not sending
08:48 PM _unreal_: his cancer marker was a 10.. normal is 3-7
08:48 PM Tom_L: roycroft, it is
08:48 PM Tom_L: he tested that
08:48 PM roycroft: ok
08:48 PM Tom_L: loop back
08:48 PM _unreal_: ya loop back works just fine
08:48 PM roycroft: and tried multiple baud rates?
08:48 PM _unreal_: yes
08:48 PM _unreal_: ve7it, said its 9600n81
08:48 PM Tom_L: the maker said it was 9600 baud
08:48 PM _unreal_: the maker heheh
08:48 PM roycroft: and you believed it?
08:49 PM Tom_L: he should know
08:49 PM Tom_L: no
08:49 PM roycroft: you need to test it :)
08:49 PM Tom_L: fuck no
08:49 PM _unreal_: if he says jump. I'm in the air
08:49 PM _unreal_: ;)
08:49 PM roycroft: it's quite unusual for serial devices to use 7 bits these days
08:49 PM Tom_L: he's using 8
08:49 PM roycroft: the 8n1 part is almost certainly correct
08:49 PM roycroft: but i'd try from 2400 baud to 115,200
08:50 PM roycroft: maybe even 1200
08:50 PM roycroft: i'd try 9600, 19200, and 57600 first, in that order
08:50 PM roycroft: and then everything in the range
08:51 PM Tom_L: yeah, one step at a time... 9600 9601 9602...
08:51 PM _unreal_: no no no 9600.1 9600.2 9600.4
08:51 PM Tom_L: hey, it's your time...
08:51 PM roycroft: none of those are standard baud rates
08:51 PM roycroft: you know what i meant
08:52 PM Tom_L: but you said it might be non standard
08:52 PM W1N9Zr0: or 9600 1/64, 9600 1/32, and so on if you're in USA
08:53 PM roycroft: i never said "non standard"
08:53 PM veegee: W1N9Zr0 wins the award for comment of the day
08:53 PM Tom_L: i did find one cnc that was 4800 once
08:53 PM roycroft: well, i have said that
08:53 PM roycroft: but have not said it during this conversation
08:53 PM Wolf__: if china made it could be 1/5 inch
08:53 PM veegee: I fucking hate imperial units and their 65/128 of an inch bullshit
08:53 PM Tom_L: veegee, it makes perfect sense!
08:54 PM W1N9Zr0: and don't get me started on number and letter baud rates
08:54 PM roycroft: there are lots of positives to fractional measuring systems
08:55 PM roycroft: i'm not anti american customary units because they're fractinal
08:55 PM Tom_L: you're just too simple minded... you need 1 10 100 1000....
08:55 PM veegee: I'm not against the fractional either, I'm against the non base-10 nature of it
08:55 PM veegee: inches, feet, yard, mile
08:55 PM Tom_L: ^^
08:55 PM W1N9Zr0: but seriously, if your device is transmitting and you have a scope, you should be able to figure out the baud rate by measuring the time between successive pulses
08:56 PM roycroft: i'm against them because they're not used in almost the entire rest of the world
08:56 PM Tom_L: could be cubits and spans
08:56 PM Wolf__: furlongs per fortnight
08:56 PM Tom_L: i wonder what cavemen fought over...
08:57 PM roycroft: the same things humans have always fought over - wimmin
08:57 PM Tom_L: meh they're all about the same, just name your price
08:59 PM perry_j1987: g'evening guys
09:05 PM _unreal_: now food is ready
10:25 PM perry_j1987: hmm precision mathews PM-728VT looks pretty nice
10:25 PM perry_j1987: but i keep going to the tormach 440 as its already just "done"
10:28 PM XXCoder: Tom_L: the usuals. sex, food, and place to sleep
10:42 PM jymmmm: If flattened, think this could do 100A easily? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-in-O-D-x-10-ft-Soft-Copper-Refrigeration-Coil-Tubing-1-4-R-10RE/203654086?MERCH=REC-_-pipsem-_-100147017-_-203654086-_-N
10:43 PM jymmmm: dumb question, what width is a 1/4" tube flattened?
10:46 PM Tom_L: it would depend on the wall thickness
10:47 PM jymmmm: I'm guessing about .393" wide?
10:48 PM jymmmm: thickness is .030"
10:48 PM Tom_L: go smash a piece and measure it
10:48 PM Tom_L: and i don't think it would matter if it was flat or round as far as it's current carrying capacity
10:48 PM perry_j1987: i dont see that one listed in the manual jymmmm https://i.pinimg.com/564x/41/db/e9/41dbe99d8d85cfd0a9255d64244c7190--handy-man-gag.jpg
10:49 PM jymmmm: Just found this "The width of the tube when flattened will be half the circumference. The formula for circumference is C = πD"
10:50 PM jymmmm: perry_j1987: Not fuse, bus bar =)
10:50 PM perry_j1987: any bus bar is a fuse if your daring enough
10:50 PM perry_j1987: :)
10:51 PM jymmmm: perry_j1987: in that case, it would be 352 amps
10:52 PM perry_j1987: you guys see precision mathews is offering an official cnc kit now for one of their mills, the pm-728vt
10:55 PM jymmmm: $3000 for a conversation kit?!
10:56 PM jesseg: what I want is a wireless realtime CNC boring head :P
10:56 PM jesseg: but not for $3000
11:00 PM perry_j1987: not 3000
11:00 PM perry_j1987: between 800-900 for their kit
11:00 PM perry_j1987: ontop of the 2900 dollar mill
11:00 PM perry_j1987: and stand its about 4 grand
11:02 PM Tom_L: you could buy a real mill for that or less
11:02 PM Tom_L: used
11:02 PM perry_j1987: there's reasons for these smaller mills
11:02 PM perry_j1987: space / weight constraints
11:03 PM perry_j1987: power too
11:52 PM pink_vampire: I think the lathe handles are too small
11:53 PM pink_vampire: also why there is a ball in the handle in some models?
11:57 PM XXCoder: dunno, most seem to have that
11:58 PM pink_vampire: I think it was originally was made to balance large handles