#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 04 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:02 AM veegee: Jesus christ these desiccant dryers are so overpriced
12:08 AM veegee: I'm going to make my own
12:08 AM CaptHindsight: dryers that use desiccants or a dryer that dries desiccants?
12:08 AM veegee: an air line dryer that dries compressed air by using a desiccant
12:08 AM veegee: I can buy so much desiccant for that price that I can easily create a cartridge system that uses two cartridges and swap the cartridges while the other one is being dried
12:08 AM veegee: principle of operation is dead simple
12:11 AM CaptHindsight: good thing you don't have to worry about food and shelter
12:31 AM veegee: what do you mean?
12:32 AM XXCoder: vee yeah though you would need a system to dry those packs yp too
12:33 AM XXCoder: maybe make a system where you can just switch hoses to heated air flow though and dump that air outdoors
12:33 AM XXCoder: drying those diseccants out
12:33 AM veegee: Yup
12:36 AM XXCoder: talking about heated air heh I fixed dryer hose system
12:36 AM XXCoder: hose was way too long, it went up turned down back to floor, then connect to wall hose where it goes upwards again
12:36 AM XXCoder: 2 180 degree turns. not good for airflow lol
01:35 AM CaptHindsight: forklift, racking, boxes, office furniture, work/tool boxes all for sale cheap
01:35 AM CaptHindsight: small companies all around me closing up, out of business
01:36 AM CaptHindsight: grab it before it hits the dumpsters
01:42 AM CaptHindsight: for sale until it isn't and has to just go cheapest way
02:45 AM matic292: ,
02:46 AM matic292: stretch is not very good to have it with parrarel port right?
02:47 AM CaptHindsight: matic292: it's fine
02:47 AM CaptHindsight: I have used Stretch with preempt_rt and PCIe LPT cards
02:48 AM CaptHindsight: matic292: you can use different prempt_rt kernels on Stretch
02:48 AM CaptHindsight: for RTAI Linuxcnc has to be built against the exact kernel
02:55 AM matic292: CaptHindsight: i want stretch since i cannot update wheezy to 2.8
02:56 AM matic292: i just made fresh os install and trying 2 days in a row to update it to use designer after that .. but seems like mission impossible
02:56 AM matic292: im using Atom CPU and now im scared i will have high latency with stretch
03:28 AM CaptHindsight: matic292: Stretch won't effect latency, it can be the kernel version
03:30 AM CaptHindsight: matic292: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/index.html
03:30 AM CaptHindsight: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian9-emc.html
03:31 AM CaptHindsight: https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/uspace/debian10-emc.html
03:52 AM matic292: i have to check those
03:53 AM matic292: CaptHindsight: but i have to download from here right? : http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
03:53 AM matic292: linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386-r12.iso
03:53 AM matic292: this one right ?
03:54 AM CaptHindsight: I'm not certain
03:55 AM CaptHindsight: but the instructions in the links above work
03:55 AM CaptHindsight: deb9 is Stretch
03:55 AM CaptHindsight: I think deb10 is Buster
03:56 AM matic292: ill try ti but im still worried since it is rtpreempt
03:56 AM CaptHindsight: preempt_rt works fine on many many systems
03:56 AM matic292: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/36584-rtai-vs-preemt-rt
03:56 AM matic292: RTAI usually gives better latency numbers but you can't use it with as new a kernel.
03:56 AM matic292: RT gives worse latency but when using FPGA cards, it doesn't matter as much.
03:57 AM CaptHindsight: matic292: your BIOS setting will likely matter more
03:57 AM matic292: so if is used parrarel port u get more awful latency on rt
03:57 AM matic292: yeah i have an old computer
03:57 AM CaptHindsight: turn off all power management and speed stepping and virtualization
03:57 AM CaptHindsight: not always
03:57 AM matic292: will check bios right now
03:58 AM CaptHindsight: i used some old celeron systems that had latency very close to RTAI
03:58 AM CaptHindsight: have to go, near 4:00 here
03:58 AM matic292: which cpu u prefer anyway?
03:58 AM matic292: ohh ok .. we just started day here :)
03:58 AM matic292: have a good night
03:59 AM CaptHindsight: I've been using 99.9% AMD since the late 90's
03:59 AM CaptHindsight: it's more the BIOS than the cpu for the past 15+ years
04:00 AM CaptHindsight: some BIOSes are broken and you can't kill power management
04:00 AM matic292: huh i want to build a pc from old pieces which will make best performance - i want mini-itx that would be nice to have
04:00 AM CaptHindsight: you want the CPU to stay at once clock speed
04:00 AM CaptHindsight: NO clocks speed changes while running
04:00 AM matic292: but didnt found what would be best setup yet
04:01 AM CaptHindsight: true for preempt-rt or RTAI
04:01 AM CaptHindsight: hasta banana
04:01 AM matic292: hmm
05:15 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:21 AM matic292: I have to install GRUB on debian9 - stretch ?
05:22 AM matic292: for the first time i clicked install.. and i couldn't boot after installer finished ...
05:22 AM matic292: its must to have?
05:23 AM JT-Cave: install from what?
05:45 AM matic292: linux download
05:45 AM matic292: JT-Cave: http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/
05:46 AM matic292: linuxcnc-stretch-uspace-i386-r13.iso
05:46 AM matic292: do i need GRUB boot loader or no ?
05:47 AM JT-Cave: I'm trying to remember, seems you just need to accept all the defaults during the install
05:48 AM matic292: here is no defualt its only yes or no ..
05:48 AM JT-Cave: well if no doesn't work...
05:48 AM matic292: Install the GRUB boot loader to the master boot record
05:48 AM matic292: y/n
05:58 AM andypugh: y
05:59 AM Tom_L: morning
09:29 AM perry_j1987: good morning everyone
09:40 AM jymmmm: Morning
09:46 AM perry_j1987: waiting on coffee
09:46 AM perry_j1987: whats your plans for the day
09:48 AM jymmmm: bbq
09:54 AM Tom_L: dog watch today. the neighbors will provide the fireworks
09:59 AM perry_j1987: Tom_L going to rig up some roman candles on a drone and chase the neighbor hood kids around?
11:05 AM veegee: pink_vampire ok so you put the PEX idea in my head now
11:05 AM * Tom_L erases it
11:06 AM veegee: The largest size I can find is 1". Ideally I'd like to run 2" pipe in my workshop, but I don't mind testing out the 1" since PEX is so cheap and if it doesn't work out, I need to redo the plumbing anyway
11:06 AM veegee: Tom_L yeah I was really opposed to it earlier but it looks like it's not super brittle like PVC
11:07 AM Tom_L: no, it's flexible but will it hold up over time and will it hold up under the pressures you're using
11:07 AM Tom_L: i personally wouldn't wanna get slapped in the face with a piece of pex whipping around the room
11:07 AM veegee: I am going to brace it against the wall ever 1m or so
11:08 AM veegee: so it won't be flapping around if it breaks or if a fitting comes loose
11:09 AM perry_j1987: little secret with pex
11:09 AM perry_j1987: 1/2 pex works great for barrel of marshmallow shooters along iwth cpvc elbows
11:10 AM perry_j1987: vs 1/2 pvc the marshmallow is much too loose in there
11:10 AM perry_j1987: fun to make up a bunch of them for the kids
11:10 AM perry_j1987: but now... with the pandemic haha shooting mouth blown marshmallows at eachother is biological warfare and considered attempted murder isnt it? :P
11:19 AM JT-Cave: if you want to catch it just go to a large public gathering or the beach this weekend
11:26 AM * JT-Cave wonders why anyone would want a 2" air line in their shop... that's big enough to run industrial air driven devices or whole plants
11:32 AM andypugh: I once designed a machine (to a cistomer specification) that had a 2” regulator in it and all other ppiping to suit. When we deliverd it they hooked it up to a standard 1/2” air line. They didn’t understand their specification.
11:33 AM andypugh: (They specified in a test procedure that it had to deliver 100psi to an _open_ 1.125” valve to make sure that the valve wasn’t closed by the pressure)
12:07 PM JT-Cave: one of my jobs in the shipyard was to connect a 1/8" pipe up to the hull valve on a submarine and I had a 100cc vial of water once the valve was pressurized I switched over to the vial and had a tiny air driven pump that you could make it stroke once... then you sit there for a number of hours with a bunch of inspectors watching you
12:08 PM JT-Cave: actually up to a cover over the hull valve
12:08 PM JT-Cave: like an 8" valve
12:18 PM jymmmm: JT-Cave: Such an exciting and fulfilling job =)
12:19 PM jymmmm: Bubble Watcher
12:24 PM jymmmm: IDK if anyone cares, but this allows you to screw two soda bottles (NOT water bottles, different thread) together. I use 1L soda bottles and pre-fill to a measured out of oil for my generator, then you can use a cut 2L bottle as a funnel and not worry about leaking. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018NJC1A6/
12:29 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: A review of that 20A buck/boost converter you have (not good)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-LVmZFrXhs
12:38 PM unterhaus: search for height gauge on ebay and the first page has no height gauges on it at all
12:43 PM unterhaus: how does the scale from a height gauge go missing? Heathens. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Scherr-Tumico-Height-Gage-Transfer-Stand-MISSING-SCALE/401113379460?hash=item5d64387284:g:X5MAAOSwKfVXI34a
12:44 PM unterhaus: best part of that missing scale one is "contact us for a calibration"
01:06 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: I already have it. Why should I watch some idiot review it?
01:33 PM gregcnc: I'm tired of 30 minute review videos which could be summarized in a single chart.
01:51 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I could use a walk though again on how to edit the settings in the motor controllers dspics
01:53 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: It's a special idiot review?
01:54 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: when watching youtube, press the questionmark key
01:54 PM CaptHindsight: ^^ what gregcnc said *****
01:56 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: But the unintended outakes are funny.... blowing fuses, letting out the magic smoke, etc
01:56 PM jymmmm: blowing shit up, especially on July 4th, mkay CaptHindsight
01:56 PM CaptHindsight: post the data sheet for the chips used and the RE'd schematic, that would actually be handy
01:57 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: reading is hard
01:57 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: and he did actually
01:58 PM CaptHindsight: reminds of that quote by AC Clarke
01:58 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: The datasheets don't show the fuses NOT blowing
01:58 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: and the OCP not working
01:59 PM CaptHindsight: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”
01:59 PM jymmmm: voodoo, snake oil, yo mommy, it's all the same
01:59 PM jymmmm: s/y/a/
02:03 PM CaptHindsight: time better spent https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTJn6buigC961hns17ELXAQ
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.falstad.com/circuit/
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: give a man a fish vs light him on fire
02:07 PM Tom_L: some should be lit
02:08 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: your idea hijacked again https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/2/21311229/walmart-parking-lot-drive-in-movie-theaters
03:08 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: bastards! lol
03:48 PM Thorhian: Hows it going people?
03:49 PM JT-Cave: HOT
03:53 PM Tom_L: next few days over 100 here
03:54 PM Tom_L: well, starting next friday
03:55 PM Thorhian: That sucks Tom
03:57 PM Tom_L: somewhat mild today
03:59 PM Thorhian: I've been using an angle grinder to grind the scale off of hot rolled steel for my mill lol
04:00 PM Thorhian: Flattening with my surface plate and prussian blue too lol
04:01 PM jymmmm: hope you have a steady hand
04:06 PM Thorhian: It has worked fairly well so jymmmm
04:10 PM * JavaBean needs at some point to get some of that blue
04:13 PM XXCoder: here missed the heatwave
04:13 PM XXCoder: but no worries it will be hot here evenually.
04:13 PM XXCoder: 67f here
04:14 PM JavaBean: thermometer in the shade here says 95f
04:27 PM Thorhian: Lol JavaBean
04:28 PM JavaBean: and now it says 99f
04:29 PM JavaBean: hmmm why that sudden change... its still in the shade
04:36 PM Thorhian: But yeah, I dont have a mill or surface grinder, so I have to flatten my steel by hand :/
04:37 PM XXCoder: j likely air movement
05:10 PM SpeedEvil: Angle grinder used with skill is a surprisingly precision instrument.
05:12 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: and a steady hand =)
05:16 PM Thorhian: I'd prefer to use a hand scraper specific for the job, but I don't have $100 to spend. The attached handle on the grinder really helps keep it steady.
05:20 PM SpeedEvil: i have wondered about a 3dp class 'surface grinder'.
05:20 PM SpeedEvil: that can just hit blued areas.
05:39 PM _unreal_: ve7it, you live?
07:42 PM _unreal_: sweet just put power to the motor controller box. no smoke popping fire works nothing
07:43 PM _unreal_: ve7it, at some point in time we need to get in touch. I'm NOW at the point where I can start setting up the motor controllers
07:43 PM _unreal_: the only thing I have not finished is the encoder interface between the wire runs and the motors them selfs
07:43 PM _unreal_: nothing more then a few wires but jus the same
07:47 PM andypugh: Can you tell what it is yet? https://photos.app.goo.gl/fZkJC96dLZHmXjqN9
07:48 PM Tom_L: i thought you had one already\
07:48 PM andypugh: I have a horizontal tube one for heat-treatment. This is more for crucibles and melting.
07:48 PM Tom_L: oh
07:49 PM Tom_L: what metals are you intersted in?
07:49 PM andypugh: (and for the fun of it)
07:49 PM andypugh: Brass
07:49 PM Tom_L: might be fun
07:49 PM Tom_L: in a dangerous sort of way
07:50 PM Tom_L: what heat source are you gonna use?
07:50 PM andypugh: I have done a fair bit of casting.
07:50 PM andypugh: Electric.
07:50 PM Tom_L: round up a used pottery kiln
07:50 PM Tom_L: ready to go
07:50 PM andypugh: That’s pretty much what this is.
07:51 PM andypugh: I am making it mainly for the fun of making it.
07:51 PM Tom_L: i've never done that :)
07:52 PM Tom_L: gonna use sand molds?
07:52 PM Tom_L: 3d printed for lost 'glue' casting?
07:53 PM Tom_L: the yt for sand dipping was pretty interesting to me instead of the hard packed sand frames
07:53 PM andypugh: Most of the things I will be making are replica castings, to are shapes suitable for normal re-usable patterns.
07:57 PM Tom_L: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeg575g_Cgs
07:57 PM Tom_L: not the same one i saw but the process is
08:11 PM andypugh: A friend of mine has been 3D printing foundry patterns and core-boxes: http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/9761-1908-dennis-truck/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-464051
08:13 PM SpeedEvil: :)
08:19 PM Tom_L: you gonna restore another fire truck?
08:21 PM andypugh: I am more likely to do another bike. I fancy a Scott Squirrel
08:22 PM Tom_L: pretty soon you'll need museum space
08:23 PM JavaBean: wow, andy... how can i meet this person and become their frined?
08:24 PM andypugh: Not as much as the friend who I just linked to. They have a 1908 Dennis Truck, 1914 Dennis Truck, 1908 Singer pickup truck, 1913 Morris car and a 1914 Thornycroft truck.
08:26 PM andypugh: JavaBean: Why, do you need some foundry patterns making?
08:26 PM andypugh: Or did you go to the start and realise that he found the truck under a house and plled it out?
08:27 PM JavaBean: no, but i am looking at building/rebuilding a foundry for alu at a minimum... steel is possible with the setup, considering how many steel crucibles i melted on their first use
08:57 PM Connor: Fired up my CNC Router that I built in 08.. Had emc2.4 on it, then at some point, I upgraded it to Lcnc 2.6 pre something.. On Ubuntu 12.04 LTS looks like.. It still working.. though, I can't browse anything because SSL stuff has changed.
08:57 PM Connor: Wonder if it's worth upgrading the OS / LinuxCNC
09:02 PM andypugh: Yes
09:02 PM Tom_L: always
09:03 PM andypugh: This is probably an absolute steal, but they left out some really important info, like what taper it is and whether it is ATC. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HURCO-HS105351A-SPINDLE-from-engineering-liquidation/333644198626
09:04 PM Tom_L: unless the bearings are shot
09:04 PM Tom_L: still a good price
09:04 PM Connor: I'm a bit worried that upgrading it will cause issues with the timing. It's a Atom based machine.
09:04 PM Connor: Using parport.
09:04 PM Tom_L: Connor, i'm using wheezy with 2.7 but have tried 2.8 on it with no problems
09:04 PM Tom_L: mesa cards
09:05 PM Tom_L: D525
09:06 PM Connor: Good Grief, it's got a 32GB Corsair SSD in it..
09:06 PM Tom_L: swap that out and upgrade then you'll have a backup
09:07 PM andypugh: Connor: You can upgrade LinuxCNC to 2.7.15 without any change to OS or realtime.
09:07 PM andypugh: This is the support matrix: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?MinimumSoftwareVersions
09:08 PM andypugh: You will even be OK with 2.8.xx
09:08 PM Connor: Why the switch to DEbian from ubuntu?
09:08 PM andypugh: Ubuntu wanted us to remove all Ubuntu branding from our LiveCD
09:08 PM andypugh: And we didn’t know how
09:09 PM Connor: Oh geez. That sucks.
09:09 PM Connor: I've found from 12.04 -- 14.04 -- 20.04 (My desktop upgrades) That the system felt more and more bloated..
09:10 PM Connor: I've always liked 12.04
09:10 PM andypugh: Is that the one with the Unuty desktop that everyone hates? (and I actullu quite like)
09:12 PM Thorhian: Ubuntu was my first distro. Unity was okay but I prefered KDE when I found it. X11 would always crap its pants on ubuntu with my nvidia card then, so I ditched it for Arch and had a much more pleasent time lol
09:18 PM JavaBean: to be fair, nvidia support ranges from "none at all" to "incredibly poor" on linux... which is why i haven't bought an "nvidia" card/anything in a few years now
09:19 PM Connor: I don't think 12.04 had unity..
09:20 PM Connor: let me look.
09:20 PM Connor: Oh. Maybe it is.
09:21 PM Connor: well. heck.. what version of ubuntu is this..
09:22 PM Connor: it may be 8.04 or 10.04
09:24 PM JavaBean: sounds like you might be missing an update or 10
09:25 PM Connor: okay. It's 10.04 LTS
09:34 PM andypugh: OK, you can (and should) go to 2.7.15 but that is as far as you will be able to go.
09:34 PM andypugh: That is actually the latest release version.
09:35 PM andypugh: Do this: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
09:37 PM andypugh: Check section 3, there are a few things to be aware of, but nothing major.
09:38 PM andypugh: Anyway, time to assume a horizontal aspect. Sleep is possilbly optimistic.
09:38 PM JavaBean: enjoy the unconscienceness
09:47 PM ve7it: _unreal_, hey... get a serial port hooked up, take the belt off the motor, get the encoder hooked up and you should be able to mess with the serial commands... they are simple, the default tuning will probably run the motor
09:51 PM ve7it: _unreal_, if you see the motor is holding position, you have the encoder polarity correct, if the motor just runs full speed one way, you can either swap the motor leads or swap the a,b encoder leads
09:52 PM ve7it: _unreal_, if you feel lucky, try a j 1000 command.... that should move the motor 1000 encoder counts back and forth every 5 seconds
09:53 PM _unreal_: how do I serial into it though
09:53 PM _unreal_: what software
09:54 PM ve7it: _unreal_, while its doing that, you can play with the speed, acceleration, and servo tuning params to make it work crisply without oscillation
09:55 PM ve7it: no software required if you have a serial terminal. Otherwise use a terminal emulator.... minicom works in the linux world, procomm in the dos world... not sure what windows has these days
09:57 PM ve7it: when you get serial correctly setup, the drive will send out announcements when it powers up
10:00 PM ve7it: I was hoping you would have tried the drives out as you built them.. but now should work as well... takes time to get power and wiring to everything
10:03 PM ve7it: sending a ? will get you a help menu
10:04 PM _unreal_: ok
10:04 PM _unreal_: My goal tomorrow is to get the encoder wired in
10:04 PM _unreal_: then I should be able to a real function test
10:09 PM ve7it: yup... if you look in the source files, the commands are implemented in the commands.c file
10:11 PM ve7it: the s command will print out a bunch of info about what is happening in the servo loop... command,feedback,error,drive etc
10:14 PM ve7it: its fun to watch those numbers as you try and turn the servo out of position... you will feel it fight back
10:19 PM _unreal_: do you think a 100watt 24v motor would be to much?
10:19 PM ve7it: _unreal_, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uy-2hyzaw1KC6oWGyxleMm0RDi2Mnrt2/view?usp=sharing latest project - urn box
10:21 PM ve7it: _unreal_, had to do something related to cnc on it... vcarved a greek chain on each end panel
10:22 PM _unreal_: asking for a key
10:22 PM _unreal_: for the google drive link
10:27 PM ve7it: weird... should be sharable link
10:30 PM _unreal_: its the permistions setting
10:30 PM _unreal_: needs to be set to anyone with the link can view
10:30 PM ve7it: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uy-2hyzaw1KC6oWGyxleMm0RDi2Mnrt2/view?usp=sharing is this one any differnt?
10:30 PM _unreal_: same thing
10:32 PM ve7it: thanks google... that used to work.... it seems to work here
10:32 PM ve7it: with firefox
10:33 PM ve7it: weird... it send me an email from berinslaptop...
10:34 PM ve7it: is requesting access to the following image
10:35 PM _unreal_: its do to the current setting
10:36 PM ve7it: I think somehow I added you to the list of viewers... you might get email
10:38 PM ve7it: ok... maybe permissions are chaned... try again
10:39 PM ve7it: I shouldnt try and type while sneezing!
10:43 PM _unreal_: woden chest
10:44 PM _unreal_: or wood table? coffee table?
10:52 PM _unreal_: oh urn box
11:07 PM jymmmm: I want a 3/4" version of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goEV_iB3EvM
11:08 PM jymmmm: ve7it: Ewwww keyboard boogers ;)