#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 03 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
05:05 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:11 AM XXCoder: hey jt
06:13 AM Tom_L: morning
06:15 AM XXCoder: hey tom
06:38 AM JT-Cave: JT,What is your price on the 7I76-5I25 PLUG-N-GO KIT shipped to Indiana 46158.
06:39 AM JT-Cave: duh you get a shipping price in the cart...
07:34 AM JT-Shop: finally got that some beach bleed screw to loosen up
08:40 AM perry_j1987: morning all
08:41 AM perry_j1987: everyone got their coffee?
08:57 AM JT-Cave: coffee long gone
08:59 AM perry_j1987: you're doing it wrong
08:59 AM perry_j1987: its never suppose to stop flowing
09:18 AM JT-Cave: too much upsets my stomach
09:27 AM perry_j1987: stop the drip coffee if thats the case
09:27 AM perry_j1987: too much acid
09:27 AM perry_j1987: try french press
09:28 AM perry_j1987: https://amzn.to/3dVImrf like this
09:59 AM * JT-Cave has found his happy balance with coffee and doesn't need any more caffeine in one day
10:06 AM skunkworks: My happy balance is 1 pot of coffee...
10:20 AM tiwake: I don't like coffee
10:20 AM tiwake: or energy drinks
10:38 AM matic292: test
10:38 AM matic292: finnaly working :)
10:38 AM matic292: anybody maybe online here right now ?
10:39 AM matic292: i want to upgrade from linuxcnc 2.7 to 2.8 but im getting problems anybody can help me ?
10:40 AM matic292: im getting "fix broken packages first."
10:42 AM matic292: :(
10:52 AM jymmmm: skunkworks: per hour?
10:55 AM matic292: anyone can help me ?
10:56 AM skunkworks: matic292: ask away
10:58 AM matic292: I just made fresh install of wheezy on PC .. i want to update from 2.7 to 2.8 ... but im stuck
10:59 AM matic292: for linuxcnc-dev it says Could not apply changes fix broken packages first.
10:59 AM matic292: what to do ?
10:59 AM matic292: i have update it via http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
11:05 AM matic292: :'(
11:17 AM skunkworks: matic292: have you tried sudo apt-get install -f
11:20 AM matic292: skunkworks
11:20 AM matic292: it says E: could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg ......... is another process using it
11:21 AM matic292: ok i closed everything now and it says now:
11:21 AM matic292: 0 upgraded 0 newly installed, 0 to remo adn 3 not upgraded ...
11:48 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, brakes bleeding or are you?
11:53 AM matic292: zzZZZzzZZZZZ
12:00 PM JT-Cave: neither one yet, well they brakes are half done and I have new bleeders for the front but time for a nap
12:01 PM Tom_L: exhausting ehh?
12:04 PM perry_j1987: im back
12:04 PM perry_j1987: got some fresh coffee
12:13 PM perry_j1987: im trying to find a cutter that can mil horizontal grooves about 5-6mm deep
12:14 PM Tom_L: slitting saw?
12:15 PM Tom_L: or horizontal cutters like these only flat: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/cutter/cutter1.jpg
12:15 PM Tom_L: held in an arbor
12:16 PM perry_j1987: hoping for a cutter of some sort so there's not a big ole nut retainer on the end
12:16 PM perry_j1987: so i can get down close to fixture
12:17 PM skunkworks: woodruff cutter
12:17 PM perry_j1987: for alum also
12:17 PM Tom_L: https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/07006646
12:18 PM Tom_L: what skunkworks said
12:18 PM Tom_L: how wide?
12:20 PM perry_j1987: i just need to cut some grooves about 5mm deep
12:20 PM perry_j1987: oh thickness you mean?
12:20 PM Tom_L: how wide are the grooves
12:21 PM perry_j1987: anywhere from 1-2mm would be fine
12:21 PM perry_j1987: grove is about an inch down
12:22 PM Tom_L: what spindle speed?
12:22 PM Tom_L: that may be your next problem
12:23 PM Tom_L: those cutters take more to turn than a regular endmill due to the increased diameter so you'd need more lower end torque for those
12:23 PM perry_j1987: aye im looking to get a new real mill
12:23 PM perry_j1987: so will be able to go below 6k rpm finally haha
12:23 PM Tom_L: so you'd turn them slower
12:23 PM Tom_L: i tried some on my sherline spindle and it didn't have enough poop for them
12:32 PM perry_j1987: im starting to look at a tormach 770mx possibly
12:34 PM veegee: I have nine one-ton portable ACs now
12:34 PM veegee: Going to do the duct work and set it up
12:34 PM veegee: total cost of buying these was less than $2,000 CAD
12:34 PM veegee: Far cheaper than the cost of a single roof mounted unit and installation
12:35 PM veegee: I got them from a place that sells open box units for half price or so, without accessories like the hose but in otherwise perfect working condition
12:35 PM veegee: These portable units are quite powerful
12:35 PM Tom_L: what about long term energy consumption?
12:36 PM veegee: I don't think that will be significantly different
12:37 PM veegee: That being said, if we get this hobby shop turned into an actual business that generates income, I might switch to central roof mounted units.
12:39 PM veegee: But I'm really impressed with the capability of these portable units
12:39 PM Tom_L: 110 or 220v?
12:40 PM veegee: 120V, but that's why I'm buying in multiples of three. I can balance them across the phase legs
12:40 PM veegee: I can also sell them for about as much as I bought them for
12:40 PM Tom_L: i've done that before
12:41 PM Tom_L: was framing a house and instead of renting a framing nail gun i bought one then sold it for just about what i paid for it
12:41 PM skunkworks: you don't have a wild leg?
12:42 PM veegee: well I have multiple transformers. I have a dedicated transformer for the ACs, 600V 3ø to 208Y120
12:42 PM skunkworks: ah
12:42 PM veegee: More like 220Y127. Might even bump that up to 240Y139
12:43 PM * Tom_L thought skunkworks was geting personal for a sec
12:44 PM veegee: Yeah I'm constantly irritated by the 120V standard here. It really should be 240V
12:44 PM veegee: But the 600V I absolutely LOVE
12:45 PM Tom_L: until it knocks you on your arse once
12:45 PM veegee: I'm very careful. I have fused safety disconnect switches everywhere
12:46 PM veegee: Like one in the electrical room, and another one right next to the machine/mounted on the machine
12:46 PM perry_j1987: it would be a lot nicer having 240 for heaters and ovens and such
12:46 PM perry_j1987: ridiculous having 110v ovens lol
12:47 PM veegee: Or literally anything for the sake of efficiency and being able to plug in more than one thing without having the damn breaker trip
12:47 PM veegee: Because of the idiotic 120V, I have to run 10 gauge wire everywhere for 30A outlets
12:49 PM perry_j1987: im looking at a tormach 770mx for ease of being able to plug the thing in anywhere
12:49 PM veegee: Don't
12:49 PM veegee: Get a machine because it's a good machine
12:49 PM veegee: Get a transformer to deal with the power situation
12:50 PM veegee: I scored so many good deals on kijiji, like 3hp dust collectors for $150 CAD because the dude doesn't know how to work a 240V outlet into his garage
12:50 PM perry_j1987: the 770mx is a good machine
12:51 PM veegee: I'm going to build a competing product to this: https://www.phase-quest.com/
12:51 PM veegee: Assholes are overpricing their shit
12:51 PM veegee: Those IGBT modules are like $200 tops for even their most powerful unit
12:52 PM veegee: I already designed the circuit. Can run it the other way around too, so you can supply it 3 phase and output single phase to avoid worrying about balancing the legs on your transformer
12:53 PM veegee: Sorry meant to link this: https://www.phasetechnologies.com/products/phase-perfect
12:53 PM veegee: solid state single to 3ø inverter
12:53 PM perry_j1987: i use to live near phase-quest
12:54 PM veegee: rotary phase converters are a waste of time
12:54 PM veegee: clunky, inefficient, unbalanced
12:54 PM veegee: solid state is the way to go, but the phase-perfect is obscenely overpriced
12:57 PM JT-Cave: my rotary phase converter works perfectly with balanced phases...
12:58 PM veegee: The phase angle isn't exactly 120•
12:58 PM veegee: 120º
12:58 PM veegee: https://www.digikey.com/products/en/discrete-semiconductor-products/transistors-igbts-modules/297?k=&pkeyword=&sv=0&umin2101=300&rfu2101=A&sf=0&FV=-8%7C297%2Cmu200A%7C2101%7C0%2Cmu1000V%7C2103%2Cmu1200V%7C2103%2Cmu1250V%7C2103%2Cmu1400V%7C2103%2Cmu1600V%7C2103%2Cmu1700V%7C2103%2Cmu2500V%7C2103%2Cmu3300V%7C2103%2Cmu4500V%7C2103%2Cmu600V%7C2103%2Cmu620V%7C2103%2Cmu6500V%7C2103%2Cmu650V%7C2103%2Cmu750V%7C2103%
12:58 PM veegee: 2Cmu900V%7C2103&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&pageSize=25
12:59 PM JT-Cave: maybe not but it runs my "high performance" VMC spindle
12:59 PM veegee: 600V 300A IGBT for like $30
12:59 PM veegee: Digikey apologies for the shitty URL encoding
01:37 PM skunkworks: you are going to make your own solid state phase converter?
01:37 PM * skunkworks gets the popcorn...
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/NRypWZxDSgI?t=123 how do they make those small holes in production? Directional jets.
02:10 PM CaptHindsight: drill or EDM?
02:15 PM perry_j1987: in brass?
02:15 PM perry_j1987: not tough on drills that small
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: they are brass or aluminum, depending on brand
02:16 PM CaptHindsight: methods_: how would you knock out 1,000's ^^
02:18 PM perry_j1987: easy.. fixtures :P
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: can't get a drill in there https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51uOUt04meL._AC_SY355_.jpg
02:20 PM perry_j1987: which holes are you talking about
02:21 PM CaptHindsight: see above ^^
02:26 PM perry_j1987: i dont have scroll up was logged off
02:26 PM perry_j1987: but im assuming your talking about the sideways holes
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: https://eltool.com/products/angle-heads
02:28 PM perry_j1987: coolant driven interesting
02:44 PM syyl: probably drill them from the outside
02:44 PM syyl: and plug them
02:44 PM syyl: like on hydraulic manifolds
02:47 PM matic292: hi
02:47 PM matic292: wheezy vs stretch ? any big differences?
02:48 PM matic292: i think i cannot go 2.8. on wheezy am i correct?
02:48 PM Tom_L: age
02:48 PM Tom_L: wheezy isn't supported anymore
02:48 PM matic292: but wheezy is better on low PCs for parrarel port?
02:48 PM Tom_L: probably
02:48 PM matic292: but i will get bigger latency on stretch ?
02:48 PM matic292: correct?
02:48 PM Tom_L: i'm pretty sure you can put 2.8 on wheezy
02:49 PM matic292: im trying 2 days already ...
02:49 PM Tom_L: did you build it or use an iso?
02:49 PM matic292: now i started thinking that i cannot do it and i have to go stretch
02:49 PM matic292: fresh download fresh install
02:49 PM Tom_L: i've had 2.8 on wheezy
02:50 PM matic292: intresting
02:50 PM matic292: i cannot get it at all
02:50 PM Tom_L: dl the iso and do an update
02:50 PM matic292: all the time errors ...
02:50 PM Tom_L: gotta run
02:50 PM matic292: i think i will go stretch ... but i think i will have bad performance
03:42 PM veegee: Hmmm galvanized air lines can be dangerous because of zinc flakes coming off
03:42 PM veegee: But what about rust flakes coming off from regular black pipe?
03:42 PM veegee: Aren't they equally as dangerous? If so, why do people say that galvanized pipe is not suitable but black pipe is?
03:52 PM perry_j1987: arnt they running water filters and oilers on black pipe installations
03:52 PM perry_j1987: before the air enters the black pipe
03:54 PM gregcnc: doesn't everyone use those blue pipes now? https://www.rapidairproducts.com/
03:57 PM perry_j1987: my first time seeing them
03:57 PM perry_j1987: pex type of stuff?
03:57 PM gregcnc: plastic coated aluminum per teh site
04:00 PM perry_j1987: ah
04:12 PM Tom_L: veegee, use copper
04:12 PM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBfbmWSZOZ0
04:14 PM veegee: Tom_L yeah I'm heavily leaning towards copper
04:14 PM Tom_L: that aluminum stuff looks good but i've no experience with it
04:14 PM Tom_L: if you go copper, i'd get the heavy wall stuff
04:15 PM perry_j1987: dont let the local tweekers know that your using copper though :P
04:15 PM perry_j1987: they'll come steel it for drug money haha
04:24 PM Tom_L: gregcnc, what sort of connection joints does the aluminum use?
04:24 PM Tom_L: i'd wonder about leaks from summer to winter
04:24 PM gregcnc: whatever is on the site
04:26 PM gregcnc: pink_vampire is the video a black screen the whole time? I saw nothing
04:26 PM Tom_L: same here
04:26 PM pink_vampire: here it is fine
04:29 PM Tom_L: max pressure 200 psi
04:29 PM Tom_L: or 190 for fastpipe
04:29 PM pink_vampire: gregcnc: this is look like the european style pipes
04:29 PM veegee: Tom_L copper can take much higher pressure than that
04:29 PM veegee: I have a big PDF with all the pressures and dimensions
04:29 PM Tom_L: that was the blue stuff
04:29 PM pink_vampire: why not pex?
04:29 PM Tom_L: fittings are nickel plated brass
04:29 PM veegee: pink_vampire joke?
04:30 PM gregcnc: dang, How much pressure do you keep in your lines?
04:30 PM Tom_L: 175 psi
04:30 PM veegee: gregcnc 200-250 psii
04:30 PM veegee: 250 just because that's the max rated inlet pressure of my regulators
04:30 PM veegee: my pump can do 300 easily
04:31 PM Tom_L: i wonder what their margin of safety is on those numbers
04:31 PM veegee: very high
04:31 PM veegee: my ASME tank is rated for 200 psi but I run it at 250
04:31 PM Tom_L: 2x?
04:31 PM veegee: probably more
04:31 PM veegee: I'm in the process of building a thick steel blast cage for pressure testing
04:31 PM Tom_L: the aluminum stuff...
04:32 PM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYwBh5fGOGU
04:32 PM veegee: I'm going to test various materials like PVC and copper and aluminum and pump them to 1000+ psi
04:32 PM gregcnc: I'm sure the data is out there somehwere
04:32 PM veegee: Just to see when they explode. I'll have a little metal rod to tap the unit under test just to introduce some stress
04:32 PM veegee: pink_vampire pex/PVC is a big no no
04:33 PM pink_vampire: for 1K psi yeah..
04:33 PM Tom_L: veegee, use an AK armor piercing..
04:34 PM veegee: Tom_L yeah it'll be 1/4" cold rolled plate with armour plate lining on the inside
04:34 PM perry_j1987: what do you guys think of the tormach 440
04:35 PM gregcnc: plastic tubing is fine in small sizes
04:35 PM veegee: gregcnc yeah smaller diameter can take higher pressure
04:35 PM Tom_L: perry_j1987, no opinion. don't own one
04:35 PM veegee: but I plan to run 1" minimum
04:35 PM veegee: And the blast cage will be lined with this: https://www.metalsdepot.com/steel-products/high-strength-steel-plate/steel-plate-armor-plate-46100
04:35 PM veegee: it's damn expensive but oh well
04:35 PM Tom_L: wtf are you setting up to mfg?
04:36 PM veegee: just testing stuff for fun
04:36 PM veegee: I might pick a cheaper material. That armour plate is overkill
04:36 PM veegee: I can line the inside with kevlar too
04:37 PM gregcnc: how large are the vessels you're testing?
04:37 PM Tom_L: those inserts they put on the sides of tanks would be best
04:37 PM veegee: gregcnc I'm thinking of making a 4x4x4 ft cube
04:37 PM veegee: This is much cheaper: https://www.metalsdepot.com/steel-products/high-strength-steel-plate/steel-plate-a516-pvq
04:38 PM veegee: like 5x cheaper. It's pressure vessel steel
04:38 PM gregcnc: OK I want to be nowhere near anything 4x4x4 feet when it blows
04:38 PM veegee: It has air vent holes lol
04:38 PM veegee: It's not a pressure vessel itself
04:38 PM SpeedEvil: I would simply surround the test rig with 800kg bags of gravel.
04:39 PM veegee: SpeedEvil yeah sand bags are a very good idea
04:39 PM veegee: it's just a blast shield, not a pressure vessel
04:39 PM SpeedEvil: Or sand,yes
04:39 PM pink_vampire: veegee: Machining / Grinding = Poor
04:39 PM veegee: pink_vampire no need to machine/grind it
04:39 PM veegee: also that just means it's slow to machine/grind. You can still do it
04:40 PM gregcnc: so how big are the test pieces?
04:40 PM veegee: Anything that can fit inside a 4x4x4' cube. Like small air compressor tanks, PVC pipes
04:40 PM veegee: stuff like that
04:40 PM gregcnc: new youtube channel?
04:41 PM SpeedEvil: veegee: also, hydrotesting is probably sensible
04:41 PM veegee: LOL yeah that might be a good idea
04:41 PM gregcnc: welcome to will it blow?
04:41 PM Tom_L: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690001557.pdf
04:41 PM veegee: I have nice cameras and all
04:44 PM veegee: pink_vampire PEX degrades too. PVC can handle the pressure but the point is that these materials degrade and have strong temperature related characteristics
04:45 PM veegee: pink_vampire if it explodes gracefully in my tests, I'll use it
04:45 PM veegee: Also can't seem to find anything larger than 1" for pex
04:46 PM pink_vampire: i thought you are talking at the beginning about water lines for the house.
04:51 PM veegee: no, it's for compressed air lines
04:51 PM veegee: People do use PEX and I'm not totally opposed to it depending on how poorly it degrades. It's also more ductile than PVC so that's a plus
04:55 PM Tom_L: probably depends on the type of environment you will subject it to
05:04 PM veegee: Strictly indoors
05:04 PM veegee: climate controlled
05:04 PM Tom_L: chemical contaminates...
05:05 PM Tom_L: aerosols, coolant mist etc
05:12 PM XXCoder: finally worked on dryer
05:12 PM XXCoder: hose is MUCH shorter and lint cleared out
05:12 PM XXCoder: vents now actually pop open and i can feel good air flow
05:12 PM XXCoder: yay. save money!
05:15 PM Tom_L: line dry... yay. save more money!
05:15 PM Tom_L: :)
05:15 PM Tom_L: i hardly ever see that anymore
05:18 PM XXCoder: lol
05:18 PM XXCoder: its evormental too, longer run means need lot more power
05:31 PM XXCoder: JT-Cave: you might enjoy this https://youtu.be/OuyQpjiIb6Y
05:31 PM XXCoder: i like it.
05:31 PM XXCoder: im not much into restoratuon but I love skilled work
06:19 PM JT-Cave: whew a long day
06:20 PM Tom_L: brakes done?
06:20 PM XXCoder: jt check that video out, its pretty cool, and channel is new! 6 videos
06:20 PM Tom_L: pretty good downpour earlier today
06:21 PM XXCoder: im watching welsh cup cabiet one now. cool
06:21 PM Tom_L: didn't last long
06:21 PM JT-Cave: yea, finished them up when we got back from hot dogs and ice cream cones in Eminence
06:21 PM JT-Cave: we went through some rain by Van Buren but it didn't last long
06:28 PM JT-Cave: not much data buffer on the 3rd day of the month better only take a very quick peek at the video XXCoder
06:28 PM XXCoder: save links for free time or plenty of buffer :) its well worth a full watch and its large 30+ min video
06:29 PM XXCoder: im watching federial card table restore now. apparenrly it fell forward and smashed front. its very old
06:29 PM XXCoder: 1791 to 1820s something
06:31 PM JT-Cave: saved his page, seems like it would be a good watch when you have spare time... but what's that?
06:31 PM XXCoder: its a wall curved table but you can move it out and one leg swings out and you flip over top and it turns into circle table
06:33 PM XXCoder: hes filling in shattered facade like a jigsaw
06:33 PM XXCoder: coool
07:15 PM _unreal_: so I just tested out my PSU for my new cnc build. powered up fine no issues with caps nothing blew up no fire works
07:15 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I'm one major step closer to getting the new machine moving
07:16 PM _unreal_: been very slow the past two months. dealing with my father and is slow recovery of stage 4 cancer
07:26 PM ve7it: _unreal_, cool, was wondering if you had things powered up yet. understand father issues.... mine passed at the beginning of June and it hit me a lot harder than I thought it would.
07:27 PM _unreal_: My father is now a case study because he's beating odds
07:27 PM JT-Cave: your never prepared for those events when your parents pass even if you think you are
07:27 PM _unreal_: I've had to deal with lots of passings having been a nurse for so long
07:28 PM _unreal_: I'm sure I have nervs of iron wood. not steel but iron wood ;)
07:28 PM _unreal_: also I've been doing a lot with stocks
07:28 PM _unreal_: been making a lot of doe
07:29 PM XXCoder: we was pretty well prepured for our dads death. he was slowly dying for years
07:29 PM XXCoder: it was really sad when he died though :(
07:34 PM ve7it: yah,,, my dad was 91 and only got sick the last month or so... with all the covid stuff, its was a real issue trying to get visits in the old folks home or the hospital... you just kind of expect them always to be around.
07:34 PM ve7it: luckily not a covid victim
07:34 PM XXCoder: my dad would be 94 this year
07:35 PM XXCoder: no, im not in my 60s heh
07:36 PM ve7it: hey, I am!... just getting signed up for all the old age benefits (I would rather be 17!)
07:37 PM XXCoder: funny how our dads are of same generation but we arent
07:37 PM XXCoder: youre boom gen while im gen x
07:37 PM ve7it: sometimes Dads get around!
07:37 PM _unreal_: MAMA.... woooooooo eeeeeeee e hooooooooooo aaaaaaaa
07:38 PM XXCoder: nah we are his only kids
07:38 PM XXCoder: borne from his wife, our mother
07:38 PM _unreal_: https://beveragedynamics.com/2019/10/14/stolen-x-rock-rye-in-cans/#:~:text=Based%20on%20a%20pre%2Dprohibition,Stolen%20X%20delivers%202.25%2Doz.
07:39 PM _unreal_: GOOD LORD thats got kick
07:39 PM _unreal_: its a tiny little can
07:40 PM _unreal_: 100ml 80 proof 2.5 shots
07:40 PM _unreal_: its like a sawdoff redbull can
09:23 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.zdnet.com/article/raspberry-pi-alternative-new-odroid-c4-undercuts-4gb-raspberry-pi-4-by-5/
09:24 PM andypugh: I suspect that the Pi just has too much momentum now, like the Arduino.
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: yes but for those in the know there are better options
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: say for a smaller footprint CNC controller
09:27 PM * JavaBean still curious about the amd/x86 'dev' boards
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: has a PCIe port
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: don't see an integrated microcontroller for software stepping
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: has integrated 10/100/1000 MAC
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: and SPI to connect to Mesa FPGA
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: JavaBean: which dev boards?
09:31 PM JavaBean: there was a "crowd funded" 'dev' board last year that was based on an amd Zen 4core chip... and as the crowd funding wrapped up i heard about another based on a similar chip was released for "retail"
09:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.udoo.org/udoo-bolt-the-amd-ryzen-based-maker-board-is-live-on-kickstarter/
09:33 PM CaptHindsight: last year I was using some dual core Atom boards for <$30ea with $10 LPT cards
09:33 PM JavaBean: BOLT that was the name, i knew it was a 'hard to forget' name... oh yeah, its 2020
09:34 PM CaptHindsight: they used laptop memory
09:35 PM JavaBean: wait, ATOM?? it actually ran fast enough to justify trying to use?
09:35 PM CaptHindsight: yeah ran great with preempt_rt
09:35 PM CaptHindsight: LCNC 2.8
09:37 PM JavaBean: unholy, moo... my atom based netbook couldn't even do "pihole" type tasks on a 10mb/s network in realtime... and yes, i did make sure there was no "gui overhead" at the time
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/C8HM70IHDMI/
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: Celeron 847
09:38 PM CaptHindsight: not Atom,rry
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: sorry
09:39 PM CaptHindsight: the only Intel boards I have used since the 90's
09:40 PM * JavaBean shudders, previous laptop before this one was a celeron... was completely 'tanked' by the specter/meltdown/etc mitigations
09:40 PM CaptHindsight: i think I have a P4 system around here that someone gave me with a machine
09:40 PM JavaBean: i used to have a 'mac color classic' under my desk
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: I had some Mac 512's then bought some new Mac around 1991
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: and returned it since it did not run any of the Mac512's software
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: haven't owned any Apple since
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: some of the first PC machine controller we built in the 90's were Chinese PC XT motherboards with 5 or 6 ISA slots
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: think they used the NEC V30's or 40's
09:44 PM JavaBean: got a 'mac mini' somewhere around here... powered by a core i 2xxx processor, can't update it it because it was the last 32 bit they had
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEC_V20#V30
09:45 PM roycroft: install debian mint on it
09:45 PM roycroft: i did that recently with an old imac
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: we ran DOS on them
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: all the GUI's were just ASCII
09:45 PM roycroft: not cp/m?
09:46 PM CaptHindsight: then moved to linux sometime in the late 90's
09:46 PM JavaBean: meh, mint isn't my favorite... and thanks to spectre/meltdown/etc i know that my core i7 2600k sucks hind teat, hate to think of how bad stepping down to what is in that mini would do
09:47 PM CaptHindsight: i recall buying a set of Debian CD's to try along with SUSE
09:47 PM CaptHindsight: at microcenter
09:47 PM * JavaBean tries to find a cane he can gift to capt
09:48 PM CaptHindsight: our DSL line was probably to slow to get a painless download of a complete install
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: heh, all our design files came in the mail on floppies or tape
09:49 PM JavaBean: i can beat you!!! my 4g hotspot internet access has 2 bars
09:50 PM roycroft: the other day i ran across some old 14" wide greenbar printouts of programs i wrote in pascal on a vax/vms system
09:50 PM roycroft: i didn't know i had that stuff any more
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: I lost most of my old stuff years ago
09:50 PM JavaBean: dsl was what? like 384kb/s... i routinely get a bit over 100kb/s
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: flood
09:50 PM roycroft: i stuck them in the box that has a couple old card decks from some cobol code i did on an ibm 370
09:51 PM roycroft: it's my "ancient artifacts" box :)
09:51 PM JavaBean: careful, roycroft... indiana jones might try finding your house
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: my oldest boards now only go back to the the early 00's
09:52 PM roycroft: that would be fine, if he brings marion with him
09:52 PM CaptHindsight: i think I saw a an EEPROM eraser in a box the other day
09:53 PM * JavaBean needs to dig, might find his old p4 system... might be able to find his old p2 system if he managed to find his mother's store room
09:54 PM JavaBean: hell, the mac color classic might be next to that p2
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: i remember renting an IBM PC for $200/mo in the early 80's
09:54 PM roycroft: i still have my eeprom burner
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: before that i was mostly into analog
09:54 PM roycroft: it's an external box hooked up to a windows 95 machine
09:54 PM roycroft: i'm sure i have the eraser too, but i'm not sure where it is
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: amps and transmitters back to the 20's
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: TV's to the 50's
09:55 PM roycroft: i was never into old tvs
09:55 PM roycroft: although i'd love to get a predicta
09:55 PM roycroft: but i did use to collect old radios
09:56 PM CaptHindsight: i had a job as a tech on and off the pay bills
09:56 PM roycroft: i still have a 1923 atwater-kent and a 1927 radiola
09:56 PM roycroft: both of which work
09:56 PM CaptHindsight: I'm trying not collect anymore
09:57 PM roycroft: i used to have about 20 old radios
09:57 PM roycroft: those are the only two that are left
09:57 PM roycroft: well, of the reall old ones
09:57 PM roycroft: i have 3-4 other tube radios
09:57 PM roycroft: but they're all pretty modern - from the '50s and early '60s
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: my bridgeport os from 1960
09:57 PM roycroft: but yeah
09:57 PM roycroft: i'm thinning the collection, not adding to it
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: have a matsuura from 1980
09:58 PM roycroft: my stereo is mcintosh though
09:58 PM * JavaBean makes sure he isn't on a lawn... before diving into some popcorn
09:58 PM roycroft: c-28 preamp and mc2100 power amp, both from the mid-70s
09:58 PM roycroft: and the tuner is an mr-73
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: classic parent recroom audio
09:58 PM roycroft: it has a magic eye tuning indicator tube
09:58 PM roycroft: the last mcintosh model with a vacuum tube
09:59 PM CaptHindsight: mcintosh is hipster gold right now
09:59 PM roycroft: i worked in a high end hifi store in the late '70s
09:59 PM roycroft: i lusted after the mcintosh gear back then
09:59 PM CaptHindsight: oh yeah
09:59 PM roycroft: but i was a young kid and that stuff was way out of my budget
10:00 PM roycroft: but about 15 years ago i finally got it
10:00 PM CaptHindsight: we could only afford Zenith
10:00 PM roycroft: for pretty much the same price as it cost in the '70s
10:00 PM roycroft: not adjusted for inflation
10:00 PM CaptHindsight: my friend had Pioneer
10:00 PM roycroft: and it's gone up in value since then
10:00 PM roycroft: i got mine right before the hipsters discovered it
10:00 PM CaptHindsight: Sherwood had a factory near us, we used to dumspter dive for parts
10:00 PM CaptHindsight: also Cobra radio
10:01 PM roycroft: sherwood made decent stuff
10:01 PM roycroft: the pioneer stuff was mostly junk
10:01 PM roycroft: but it was loud
10:01 PM CaptHindsight: don't know why but we had every value of every passive x100 from Sherwood
10:01 PM roycroft: if you were into crappy metal rock it was fine
10:01 PM roycroft: the music was so distorted anyway you didn't notice the distortion in the amp
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: Electrovoice speakers
10:02 PM andypugh: I have a motorcycle from 1921. But that’s not really the sort of thing you were talking about
10:02 PM roycroft: to round out my system i have stacked original advent speakers
10:02 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: isn't your Near-a-car even older?
10:02 PM roycroft: in walnut cabinets, not that vinyl covered chipboard stuff
10:02 PM andypugh: That is the Ner-a-Car
10:02 PM roycroft: if i ever got a motorcycle i'd want a 1940s era indian
10:03 PM roycroft: i don't know why folks like harleys so much
10:03 PM roycroft: indians were much better bikes
10:03 PM roycroft: and they were way more stylish
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: I thought it was back even earlier. How is it doing? How long ago was that restoration?
10:03 PM roycroft: i guess the just aren't loud enough
10:03 PM CaptHindsight: likely
10:04 PM andypugh: The wierd coincidence is that after I got my Ner-a-Car I found out that it was designed by Zultron’s great grandfather, and he as one too.
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: and you are supposed to shake to death while riding
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: small world
10:05 PM andypugh: Nah, I have been all the way round, the world is pretty big.
10:05 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: you in the UK? Sun back up yet?
10:05 PM roycroft: to me, harleys are ridiculous
10:05 PM andypugh: Not quite yet.
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: I try to quit by 2am
10:06 PM roycroft: and when folks put those high handlebars on them so they have to stretch their arms out of their shoulder sockets to hang on to them they look even more ridiculous
10:06 PM andypugh: But, yeah, probably time to be horizontal.
10:06 PM andypugh: Morning all :-)
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: our weather for the next 2 weeks 90F and sunny
10:06 PM roycroft: ciao
10:06 PM CaptHindsight: same as the passed 2 weeks
10:07 PM roycroft: looks like mid 20s here tomorrow, warming up to the upper 20s by the end of next week
10:07 PM roycroft: perfect weather for the oregon country fair
10:07 PM roycroft: too bad it's cancelled for the first time ever :(
10:09 PM CaptHindsight: yes, lots of first time ever cancellations this year
10:09 PM roycroft: i'm doing the best i can
10:09 PM roycroft: and most of the changes i've had to make are ok
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: I'm wondering if Japan will even be able to hold the Olympics in 2021
10:10 PM roycroft: i've made the best of the situation
10:10 PM roycroft: but i really miss going to concerts
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: all you can do
10:10 PM roycroft: it's a big part of my life
10:10 PM roycroft: and camping in the summer is too
10:10 PM roycroft: that's not going to happen this year
10:10 PM roycroft: i haven't not gone camping in the summer ever
10:10 PM roycroft: even when i was a baby my parents went camping
10:10 PM CaptHindsight: I hope there will be some changes by the end of the year
10:11 PM roycroft: we won't have herd immunity for another year at least
10:11 PM roycroft: and things aren't going to be able to change substantially until we're at least close to that
10:11 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
10:12 PM roycroft: if people would pull their heads out of their arses and act responsibly, we could open things up a bit more
10:12 PM CaptHindsight: wondering when I'll be able to travel outside the USA to anywhere better
10:12 PM roycroft: but we probably have until january at a minimum before people start pulling their heads out of their arses
10:12 PM XXCoder: roy usa is found to have more infectous variant of covid-19. that or scientists is trying to come up with bullshit that explains away number of cases here
10:12 PM roycroft: yes, i was discussing this with friends a month ago when the preliminary reports came out
10:13 PM XXCoder: when something is politicialized its harder to know if its truth
10:13 PM roycroft: and they poo-pooed it
10:13 PM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: I thought dumber variant of humans :)
10:13 PM roycroft: no, it's real
10:13 PM roycroft: and it was known before the spikes started
10:13 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: nah thats just accerant
10:13 PM roycroft: it's officially a mutant now
10:13 PM XXCoder: like gas helps fire burn faster but its not needed
10:13 PM roycroft: it was not considered a mutant a month ago yet
10:14 PM roycroft: it's 8-10 times more infectuous than the original strain
10:14 PM roycroft: but no more deadly
10:14 PM CaptHindsight: there have been multiple strains/mutations ever since
10:14 PM XXCoder: thankfully it has same deadlyness level
10:14 PM roycroft: one of the big differences is that it reproduces rapidly in the upper respiratory tract
10:14 PM CaptHindsight: where you want to draw the line is up to you
10:14 PM roycroft: whereas the original strain got down deep in the lungs right away
10:15 PM roycroft: and that's a major reason that it's more infectious
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: met a second person that had a unknown viral pneumonia back in Dec
10:15 PM roycroft: the other reason is that the protein spike that it uses to enter the host cell has adapted to human cells better, and can more easily enter
10:16 PM XXCoder: its very stable for RNA virus but its still rna virus
10:16 PM roycroft: yes
10:16 PM roycroft: and it's gonna get wonky
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: lots followed the medical info from China at first
10:17 PM roycroft: the real problem is that our president has gone awol
10:17 PM roycroft: and we won't have a president again until at least january
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: In guess they figured that maybe they were being honest
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: In/I
10:17 PM XXCoder: he sai its good to wear a mask. he would look like john ranger
10:17 PM roycroft: which is way too late to prevent the winter virus spike
10:18 PM roycroft: he's not even talking about the pandemic any more
10:18 PM roycroft: not much
10:18 PM roycroft: he's moved on
10:18 PM roycroft: he's ignoring the single biggest crisis in the last 100 years
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: reminds me of what Churchill said about Americans
10:18 PM CaptHindsight: Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else."
10:19 PM XXCoder: great quote
10:25 PM CaptHindsight: huh, ends up it's not an actual quote from Churchill
10:25 PM roycroft: it's one of those "quote" quotes?
10:25 PM perry_j1987: g'evening guys
10:35 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: $10k to get three phase to my shop
10:35 PM tiwake: from the power company
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: <50ft probably
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: sounds like the usual
10:36 PM tiwake: yeah, and two transformers
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: you buy the transformer that they supply
10:36 PM tiwake: I'm paying for something that is not mine
10:36 PM tiwake: piece of shits
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: yes
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: same for cable/broadband
10:37 PM tiwake: but, cars are the same way
10:37 PM CaptHindsight: Comcast wanted $16k
10:38 PM tiwake: enh, the ISP strung fiber to my house, and put in the cable converter on the side of the house, and buried the cable for free
10:38 PM CaptHindsight: we have AT&T fiber on the other side of some drywall
10:38 PM CaptHindsight: but can't get it here yet
10:38 PM roycroft: in many cases it costs the utility a lot more than that to do the drop
10:38 PM roycroft: it's not just the wires and the transformer
10:38 PM roycroft: they have to add capacity from the nearest substation
10:38 PM roycroft: i'm not suggesting they don't make money on doing it
10:39 PM roycroft: but you can't just add up the cost of the wires and transformers and think that the rest is profit for them
10:39 PM CaptHindsight: they really don't want to do it is all
10:39 PM roycroft: that's often the case
10:39 PM roycroft: and the reason is that it costs them so much
10:39 PM CaptHindsight: he likely has the 13KV 3ph on his poles
10:39 PM roycroft: sometimes they lose a lot doing a new drop like that
10:39 PM roycroft: sure
10:39 PM tiwake: why do it when they still get payed nearly the same anyway
10:39 PM roycroft: but is there enough capacity to add his drop?
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: yesh
10:40 PM roycroft: those wires don't carry unlimited amounts of current
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: his 3ph load is next to nothing on the 13KV
10:40 PM tiwake: there is no three phase going by... they have to string the other two phases from a ways away
10:40 PM roycroft: and substations do not have infinite capacity
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: oh they ask for that here with no extra wire to run
10:40 PM roycroft: so you actually know of a significant cost on their part
10:41 PM tiwake: yeah, he said that was the main thing... he is going to put together a proper quote next week and email it to me
10:42 PM roycroft: you might check to see the cost of adding another 100a or so to your existing single phase service
10:42 PM CaptHindsight: in the 80's 90's it was $10k for a transformer on a pole and you supply the secondary drop wires
10:42 PM roycroft: it might be cheaper to take 100a 250vac single phase and convert it in house
10:42 PM tiwake: thats... yucky
10:43 PM roycroft: but they may not have the capacity for that even
10:43 PM roycroft: if it were me i'd at least price it out
10:43 PM tiwake: a haas VF2 pulls 70amps three phase at 240v
10:43 PM tiwake: need even more for single phase
10:43 PM roycroft: it would help me make a better decision on paying for the 3 phase drop
10:43 PM roycroft: so you might need 200a :)
10:44 PM roycroft: whatever you do, anticipate what you'll need and then double it
10:44 PM tiwake: right, and ways to make that happen shoots up in price a lot
10:44 PM CaptHindsight: cheaper to move somewhere with 3ph
10:44 PM roycroft: so you don't have to do this again
10:44 PM tiwake: thats true, there might be shop space I could just lease somewhere close
10:45 PM tiwake: at the same time, then why have your own property?
10:45 PM roycroft: or buy a commercial shop
10:45 PM CaptHindsight: we moved shop space 10 years ago for a short time since we checked before the move that broadband from Comcast was available
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: after we moved we find out it's 600ft to far
10:46 PM tiwake: before I moved I knew they were going to be stringing fiber through here
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: had to settle on 6mb dsl and wimax until we moved again
10:46 PM tiwake: got hooked up recently, used DSL for about a year
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: oh an AT&T had fiber in the front lawn but wanted $1200/mo for 10mb up/down
10:47 PM tiwake: screw AT&T
10:47 PM tiwake: AT&T and the NSA are best friends
10:51 PM perry_j1987: will be interesting once starlink is finished
10:53 PM roycroft: i just assume that everything i do is monitored, and take appropriate precautions and act accordingly
10:54 PM roycroft: but if i'm honest, i'm a lot more concerned about corporate spying than government spying
10:54 PM tiwake: its the same thing these days
10:54 PM roycroft: i'm more concerned with what at&t might do with my data than what the nsa would do with my data
10:55 PM tiwake: the NSA is the distribution center these days
10:56 PM XXCoder: just had an interesting thought. could we have bandsaw that can convert to type that cuts metal blocks etc
10:59 PM perry_j1987: what do you mean XXCoder
10:59 PM XXCoder: i forgot what that thing that people use to cut blocks lof metal is called
10:59 PM XXCoder: but its different but similiar as bandsaw
11:00 PM XXCoder: so i wonder if can make a convertable version for less shop space
11:00 PM perry_j1987: can make blocks on a lathe :)
11:01 PM roycroft: a power hacksaw?
11:01 PM XXCoder: no
11:02 PM XXCoder: oh its also called bandsaw
11:02 PM XXCoder: https://www.harborfreight.com/1-HP-7-In-x-12-In-Hydraulic-Feed-Metal-Cutting-Band-Saw-63469.html
11:03 PM roycroft: yes, that's a bandsaw
11:03 PM roycroft: i have that same one
11:03 PM perry_j1987: horizontal bandsaw
11:04 PM roycroft: it's still a bandsaw
11:04 PM perry_j1987: many of those little ones flip up and have add on table for vertical bandsawing plates too
11:04 PM roycroft: just as a vertical bandsaw is also called a bandsaw
11:04 PM perry_j1987: nice if you want to take a chunk out of a larger piece
11:04 PM roycroft: that harbor freight one does
11:04 PM roycroft: but it's a pretty small table
11:04 PM roycroft: i got mine as a scratch and dent
11:04 PM XXCoder: perry ahh so such exists. interest
11:04 PM roycroft: it was missing the table and the coolant pump
11:05 PM roycroft: and i got it for $190, and a 30% discount on that because it was at one of their tent sales
11:05 PM roycroft: i made a table for it out of 0.120" steel
11:06 PM roycroft: the worm gear on that hf saw is brass, and mine chewed itself up over the course of a few years
11:06 PM roycroft: i ordered a steel replacement from grizzly - their 7x12 saw parts fit the harbor freight
11:07 PM perry_j1987: XXCoder facebook marketplace i got a horizontal bandsaw JET model for 100 bucks
11:07 PM perry_j1987: with about 10 brand new blades too heh
11:07 PM XXCoder: yea doubt i will buy one
11:07 PM XXCoder: just was wondering if such dual use bandsaw exists. it does
11:07 PM perry_j1987: i love mine
11:07 PM roycroft: 4x6?
11:08 PM roycroft: i had a jet 4x6
11:08 PM perry_j1987: considering shop building a cylinder for the downfeed needle valve control
11:08 PM roycroft: yup, sounds like a 4x6
11:08 PM roycroft: the 7x12 has a hydraulic downfeed
11:08 PM perry_j1987: ya this is the regular sized one
11:08 PM roycroft: i liked mine
11:08 PM roycroft: but the 7x12 is a lot nicer
11:09 PM roycroft: except i could schlepp the 4x6 into my pickup or van and haul it to a worksite
11:09 PM roycroft: the 7x12 does not schlepp anywhere
11:09 PM perry_j1987: lol
11:09 PM roycroft: it sits in the fabrication shop and material moves to it
11:10 PM perry_j1987: reminds me... i seen guy driving down the road with a engine bolted to engine stand strapped onto his utility trailer
11:10 PM roycroft: i've been meaning to get a port-a-band for field work
11:10 PM roycroft: but i just don't do much field work any more
11:10 PM perry_j1987: engine was bouncing up and down a good 12" haha
11:16 PM CaptHindsight: would not want to be following him
11:50 PM perry_j1987: hmm found a guy locally selling his tormach 1100 for a good price with some of the upgrades
11:53 PM CaptHindsight: how many dollars ?
11:55 PM CaptHindsight: $1200 or best ea https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-MATSUURA-MC-500V-CNC-with-YASNAC-3000G-control/283531831618
11:56 PM perry_j1987: asking 10k
11:57 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks made his into a pretty fancy machine with LCNC
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XntXTuXNfvE&feature=emb_logo
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwHqET2BACg