#linuxcnc Logs
Jul 01 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:00 AM skunkworks: we took out a ton of surge supressor and monitors because there was a hundred plus volts between neutral and ground.
12:05 AM skunkworks: (as more and more equipment came online and un-balaced the transformers.
04:20 AM XXCoder: bored? has a lathe? https://youtu.be/rtVz2GH8w_A
04:22 AM * miss0r perks up
04:24 AM miss0r: I feel sick after watching that
04:28 AM XXCoder: sorry lol
04:29 AM miss0r: 15mm DOC at 5mm stepover with a 4-flute 12mm carbide bullnose endmill (0.3mm corner radius), 800mm/min, 4000RPM. This only utilizes 14% of my spindle :D
04:29 AM miss0r: I thought that would take up more powah
04:50 AM rmu|w: XXCoder: he should have centered the optical axis
04:50 AM XXCoder: thats less fun
05:12 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:13 AM XXCoder: yo
05:58 AM Tom_L: morning
05:59 AM XXCoder: yo
06:04 AM Tom_L: JT-Cave, you like lakeshore carbide pretty well?
06:04 AM JT-Cave: yea
06:06 AM Tom_L: gonna try a couple of their cutters
06:06 AM JT-Cave: the radius corner end mills last a long time
06:10 AM Tom_L: that's what i'm after
06:11 AM Tom_L: not bull nose but corner rounding
06:11 AM JT-Cave: I have 3 or 4 of the corner rounding bits
07:37 AM jymmmm: I really don't know anything of small engines, but started my generator yesterday and oil was dripping out of the air filter box. This happened once before months back and when I called the maker they made it sound like it's no big deal, happens once in a while, etc. IS there any truth to this? Is there something I should be concerned with?
07:41 AM jymmmm: I have NOT overfilled with oil, and read that it MIGHT be a headgasket, but not sure.
07:46 AM JT-Cave: valve seal bad or broken ring, how else could oil get into the air filter but through the cylinder then into the intake
07:47 AM TekniQue: there is always a breather hose that goes from the valve cover or crankcase into the air filter
07:47 AM JT-Cave: yea could be a poor design of breather hose
07:48 AM JT-Cave: forgot about that
07:48 AM TekniQue: this hose transfers oil vapours to be redigested by the engine
07:48 AM TekniQue: and yes poor design of the breather can mean more oil gets out that way
07:49 AM TekniQue: and it will increase as the unit ages
07:49 AM TekniQue: incorrect oil viscosity will also provoke it
07:55 AM jymmmm: FRom what I've read on forums, mentions one cause could be breather hole/tube by-pass putting oil into the air filter instead of out into the environment. I'm using the proper weight oii. It's enough oil dripping out of the air filter housing that there's a 2" puddle of oil on the ground. This time I smelt something burning but wasn't sure what it was, then found the puddle and the oil dripping stopped, and that point I just shut off t
07:55 AM jymmmm: he generator.
07:56 AM jymmmm: What is a "poorly designed" by pass? Something I could look at? COuld it be clogged?
07:59 AM jymmmm: I"m guessing the burning smell was oil that dripped on the exhaust somewhere (that I can't see). I just don't want to call the maker again today and have them blow me off again like last time if it's something more serious (it's still under warranty)
08:03 AM methods_: what make and model?
08:05 AM jymmmm: Duromax XP4850EH
08:08 AM jymmmm: Manual: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0052/1276/6281/files/XP4850eh_manual_revised05192020_WEB.pdf?v=1589931765
08:16 AM methods_: i wonder if doing searches based on the actual motor might be more useful
08:18 AM jymmmm: googled "generator leaking oil from air filter"
08:19 AM jymmmm: nothing specific when adding "duromax" to the search, other than how to clean the air filter videos
08:24 AM jymmmm: It doesn't happen continuously, and if it's not a defect (piston rings, head gasket), I'm not sure why it's occuring at all. IF it's just a poor design and more of an annoyance, I'll deal with it, just don't want a dead generator come later this summer or worse this winter if we have another 5 day blackout.
08:24 AM methods_: wow i read thru a bunch of reviews on amazon and home depot and nobody seems to have similar issue to yours
08:24 AM methods_: you might have something going on
08:25 AM methods_: yeah nothing worse than pullin out a generator to find it doesn't make the juice
08:27 AM jymmmm: It's been a good generator, and I've babied it. change oil every 30 hours or so, etc. I even have oil pre measured into bottles so when I have to do an oil change at 5am in the dark. lol
08:31 AM gregcnc: can't even find a manual for that engine. It's probably a honda clone
08:32 AM jymmmm: https://i.imgur.com/jR00i7r.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/cxQ9YLG.jpg
08:33 AM jymmmm: I've since cleaned the filters, and will probably take off the ail filter box off and clean it out as well today
08:34 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: I'll ask them today when I call what it is and for any service manual they might have.
08:34 AM gregcnc: there should be a vent in the valve cover leading to the intake. Whatever is in there in terms of PCV valve and oil separator is probably the issue
08:35 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: I'll look for it when I take off the air filter box. But my questions is what causes this (normally)? Engine being cold then just spurts oil out the bypass/pcv?
08:38 AM gregcnc: bad valve or oil separator
08:39 AM jymmmm: oil seperator?
08:40 AM gregcnc: there may or may not be any method to try to catch to oil mist, to reduce oil consumption
08:42 AM gregcnc: there may or may not be a valve. not familiar with that engine
08:42 AM jymmmm: oil mist under the valve cover? (I'm clueless when it comes to small engines)
08:42 AM gregcnc: all engines
08:43 AM jymmmm: Ok, and the PCV/bypass exists, why?
08:43 AM gregcnc: to remove water vapor form the crankcase oil
08:43 AM jymmmm: ah
08:45 AM jymmmm: I just noticed the manual says to check the valves periodically, but doesn't tell you how or the specs, I'm guessing there is another manual for the engine itself I'll have to ask about.
08:46 AM gregcnc: maybe this https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0052/1276/6281/files/XP7HP_XP7HPE_XP16HP_XP16HPE_manual_web.pdf?15837451174433921004
08:51 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Could be, but those diagrams don't look quite the same, but never know =)
08:52 AM gregcnc: right. hard to tell
08:52 AM gregcnc: It's also possible you have a ring sealing problem causing excessive blowby resulting in what you see
09:02 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: If it was a ring, wouldn't that be continously ?
09:02 AM gregcnc: yes, but while running most of it would burn. Does it consume oil?
09:04 AM jymmmm: It seems so. I'll run it for 18 hours a day non-stop and after two days the oil is low enough to top off, but I just change it instead. I thought this just might be because of the 18 hors a day
09:08 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: I have 183 hours on it so far.
09:16 AM perry_j1987: morning guys
09:16 AM perry_j1987: hows it going
09:17 AM jymmmm: perry_j1987: dazed and confused, need more coffee =)
09:17 AM perry_j1987: i got a wheel cylinder to replace and bit of brakeline later today
09:18 AM perry_j1987: had one go out in my truck the other day its had vice grips stuck on the line for couple days now haha
09:18 AM perry_j1987: always keep vice grips in the vehicle with you.. life savers
09:22 AM jymmmm: What is it with brakelines lately, you and millis both had to use visegrips on their brakelines
09:26 AM perry_j1987: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2VR3t7lzsM
09:26 AM perry_j1987: why have all the added complexity of the rack tilting...
09:27 AM gregcnc: jymmmm honda calls for 100 hour oil service interval for a similar size engine.
09:27 AM gregcnc: doesn't give up table space
09:33 AM perry_j1987: that space is consumed hwenever it levers up anyhow though
09:33 AM perry_j1987: tool clearance etc
09:34 AM gregcnc: maybe
09:35 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: oil service == oil change? Or more than that?
09:36 AM gregcnc: change. What do they call for in your genset?
09:37 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Every 20 hours, but I've notice the oil is still mostly clean and not that low. So I do it every 40 hours or less, Usually every two 18 hour days, and I don't top-off, but actually change the oil every time.
09:38 AM gregcnc: consumption seems high. See if they can tell you anything.
09:39 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Ok, will do. I thought it might have been due to running 18 hour non-stop.
09:42 AM perry_j1987: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJIzkIc_wIU this guy does a great job at what he does
10:06 AM skunkworks: entertain? ;)
10:06 AM gregcnc: yes
10:09 AM perry_j1987: aye
10:42 AM pink_vampire: hi
10:43 AM pink_vampire: Any turners around?
10:46 AM gregcnc: throw a question out to pry them from their work
10:48 AM pink_vampire: I made brass sliding bushing, and all the dimensions are right on the money, and it is slide well, but some times it is just bind.
10:49 AM gregcnc: brass against?
10:49 AM pink_vampire: steel
10:56 AM pink_vampire: the funny thing that I even test it with some 1/4" aluminum standoffs that I have here and it works better with the aluminum then the steel. O_O
10:57 AM gregcnc: clean up the bore with some 400 grit paper? sliding needs good surface finish if clearance is small
10:58 AM pink_vampire: I tried already, but it just make the bind worse
10:59 AM gregcnc: what is the surface of the steel rod like? is this just a bushing on the rod or is there more goign on?
11:01 AM pink_vampire: the surface is good, like a round shaft
11:01 AM gregcnc: ground 4-8Ra or turned and looks pretty?
11:03 AM gregcnc: length, ID of bushing?
12:15 PM jymmmm: I took apart part of the air cleaner box, I found "gritty soot" on the flap that covers the hose from the valve cover... https://i.imgur.com/e1eDx9j.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/rtGRTqR.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/ZYTQzjs.jpg
12:20 PM Tom_L: you should maintain your equipment better !
12:21 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: biotch, lol
12:21 PM Tom_L: maybe the crankcase isn't vented?
12:21 PM Tom_L: and built up some pressure?
12:21 PM Tom_L: then oozed the gooo out
12:22 PM jymmmm: IDK, but gritty soot deposited on plastic?
12:23 PM jymmmm: MAybe it's carbon, but from what?
12:24 PM Tom_L: fossil fuels
12:24 PM Tom_L: it's not running too rich?
12:25 PM Tom_L: what kind of mileage are you getting? :)
12:25 PM methods_: heheh
12:25 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: I don't *think* so, they mention "above 3000", but I'm at 2500ft
12:25 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire, maybe you should have used bronze
12:26 PM Tom_L: what's a few feet among covid partners?
12:27 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: lick it!
12:27 PM * Loetmichel just came home from work after 11 hours... i HATE that win2003 server at work... ever tried to connect that to a modern mail smarthost? took me 3/4 of a day to find out that those old exchanges truncate everything after an @ in usernames.... no wonder the smarthost didnt want to talk with the exchange server... :-( (and yes, i know, that should be updated... when my boss gives me
12:27 PM * Loetmichel time for that its the first thing i do.)
12:27 PM methods_: does that thing have a pcv valve on it?
12:27 PM SpeedEvil: molten bronze kills covid when used as a handcleaner.
12:27 PM methods_: if it does i'd make sure that's not bad
12:27 PM jymmmm: methods_: nope, see the pics I posted
12:28 PM Tom_L: SpeedEvil, so i've heard
12:28 PM methods_: i didn't think so
12:28 PM methods_: but you never know these days
12:28 PM jymmmm: methods_: unles it's on the inside of the valve cover
12:29 PM Tom_L: shouldn't be
12:29 PM Tom_L: it's a serviceable item
12:29 PM jymmmm: https://i.imgur.com/ZYTQzjs.jpg
12:30 PM Tom_L: what are those 2 black tubes
12:31 PM methods_: yeah that top black tube might go to pcv
12:31 PM methods_: have you taken a look at the plugs to see if they look fouled?
12:31 PM Tom_L: the thing on the right the air box?
12:32 PM Tom_L: what's the box on the bottom?
12:32 PM methods_: yeah that's his air box
12:32 PM methods_: i think that's the muffler
12:32 PM methods_: but not sure
12:32 PM Tom_L: kinda hard to tell
12:32 PM methods_: yeah
12:32 PM Tom_L: too damn many tubes i'll say for sure
12:33 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, was the air cleaner clogged?
12:33 PM Tom_L: maybe that caused a suction on the vent tube moreso than it normally would have
12:37 PM methods_: just being near the vacuum where jymmmm's brain should be probably caused excess suction
12:43 PM veegee: awwwwwwww shit
12:43 PM veegee: I took 10mg of melatonin instead of vitamin D
12:43 PM veegee: the tablets look exactly the same
12:43 PM veegee: the bottles look the same too
12:43 PM methods_: nap time
12:43 PM methods_: you gonna have some crazy dreams lol
12:44 PM Tom_L: so if they look the same just put them both in one bottle
12:44 PM veegee: melatonin is very very mild
12:44 PM veegee: I have a sleep disorder so I have much stronger medication
12:44 PM methods_: it always gave me weird dreams
12:44 PM veegee: stuff that bill cosy /wishes/ he had
12:44 PM veegee: it gives you amnesia
12:44 PM methods_: in that case i guess you might as well do like Tom_L said
12:45 PM methods_: put em all in the same bottle lol
12:45 PM veegee: I'm trying very hard to maintain a good sleep cycle, that would ruin it
12:46 PM methods_: not being able to sleep sucks
12:46 PM veegee: a bit of coffee should counter its effects
12:46 PM veegee: yes, I've struggled with it my whole life. Diphenhydramine and zopiclone help a lot
12:46 PM methods_: luckily it's not a common problem for me
12:47 PM veegee: zopiclone is the potent one. Decreases immune system function and increases risk of cancer but I'd rather have that than not being able to sleep
12:47 PM methods_: sometimes i get exercise induced insomnia after long runs or road marches
12:48 PM veegee: Worst part is I have a meeting with a new client in 20 minutes
12:49 PM Tom_L: just paint some eyeballs on your eyelids
12:58 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: gas tank to a carbon canister to the air filter box - EPA/CARB compliant stuff, and I'm using 100% propane
12:59 PM jymmmm: Ok, tech said oil going into the air filter is either 1) overfilled, 2) even ground
12:59 PM jymmmm: uneven*
01:00 PM jymmmm: so I guess I need to take it to a shop to get looked at. And it's a PARTS ONLY warranty, no labor - bastards. I didn't know that.
01:03 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: Tech said that manual is for like their go-kart engines, there is no service manual for the engine I have.
01:16 PM perry_j1987: ahhhhh
01:16 PM perry_j1987: decision making sometimes is not fun heh
01:17 PM perry_j1987: now im thinking... i could buy several seig x2 mini mills and convert them and have each one setup for different ops lol
01:17 PM perry_j1987: instead of buying one bigger mill
01:17 PM perry_j1987: so i'd have some redundancy too
01:19 PM gregcnc: anything with a tool changer if you are serious about production
01:23 PM perry_j1987: was looking into power drawbar and tts style tool holders
01:26 PM jymmmm: Eeeesh, it's a PARTS ONLY warranty, but you still have to pay for shipping, even if you go thru their authorized services centers. BUT, if you ship the gen to their office in SoCal, they'll cover parts and labor or even replace the generator. Round trip freight cost is $90 and about 2 weeks.
02:55 PM tris- is now known as tris
03:14 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: here?
03:15 PM pink_vampire: I did another tried and it still slightly tapered
03:16 PM andypugh: Yes, I be here
03:16 PM pink_vampire: cool,
03:17 PM jymmmm: JT[m]: Whatcha got there? Matrix???
03:17 PM andypugh: perry_j1987: What taper is in the mill you are looking at?
03:17 PM andypugh: pink_vampire: What is tapered?
03:18 PM pink_vampire: I'm trying to make a brass bushing, for 0.25" shaft.
03:18 PM pink_vampire: so it will slide on.
03:18 PM andypugh: Is it tapered on the inside or the outside?
03:18 PM pink_vampire: what do you think will be the right ID for the bushing
03:19 PM pink_vampire: on the inside, the OD is perfect
03:19 PM andypugh: Are you drilling, reaming or boring?
03:19 PM pink_vampire: I don't heave a reamer that small, so I have to use very small HSS boring bar
03:20 PM andypugh: That’s probably the best way anyway.
03:21 PM pink_vampire: I drilled it to 6mm, then I bore it with to 6.35 mm (0.25") and I even did several spring passes
03:21 PM pink_vampire: but one side is much larger then the other side
03:21 PM andypugh: If it is boring tapered then try rotating the tool down slightly to give a bit more front relief, it is probably being pushed-off by the previously cut bit of the bore
03:21 PM pink_vampire: the bore is tapered.
03:22 PM andypugh: For a very small bore you need a lot of front clearance.
03:22 PM pink_vampire: it is a bit below center
03:23 PM pink_vampire: I can't rotate it, it is a square shank
03:23 PM andypugh: Nring it up aboe centre then twist it so the tip is on centre (if you can). Or pull it above centre if you can’t. Below centre in a tightlycurved hole will eat all your front relief
03:26 PM pink_vampire: let me see what I can do
03:34 PM jymmmm: WOW, those "free spark plug wrenches" they give you with equipment are really crap :(
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: stamped aluminum foil?
03:34 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Yeah,
03:34 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: I BARELY put any pressure on it and it binded up on the spark plug
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: so the only way to find out what is wrong with the engine is to tear it down and examine , but that voids the warranty
03:34 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Was that directed to me?
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: highly likely
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: single cylinder or 2?
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: saw the comments earlier, rings, head gasket, etc sucks
03:56 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Single
03:56 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: I'm uploading mroe iamges
03:57 PM jymmmm: Next time I get to the city, I'll have to get a 13/16 spark plug socket
03:58 PM jymmmm: the valve cover was very loose, almost turn by hand loose.
04:00 PM jymmmm: valves and inside valve cover https://i.imgur.com/0sA6Bo0.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/hLz5d94.jpg
04:02 PM jymmmm: NGK Spark Plug codes (include socket wrench size): https://www.kaila.net/tl125/tl125ngkcode.html
04:09 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: The hoses you asked about... One goes from the top of the gas tank, into a charcoal canister, then out to the air filter box. The "gritty soot" they say is probably loose charcoal from the box.
04:25 PM gregcnc: So the valve cover has a valve and separator built in. You could plumb that line through a catch can to see how much oil is flowing through it.
05:01 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire, are you sure your lathe head is perfectly parallel with the lathe bed?
05:27 PM andypugh: Tom_L: pink_vampire If the head was that for out on the length you can bore with a boring tool that fits down a 6mm hole then I thik you would be able to see it.
05:28 PM Tom_L: probably so
05:28 PM Tom_L: it was just a passing thought
06:25 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: I'd likely just replace it with a small 4cyl engine and rusefi.com
06:50 PM andypugh: I don’t think that they thought this through: https://youtu.be/gtnDg_UzcPE
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: likely figured most would be to dumb to figure that out
07:21 PM andypugh: Still, it’s pretty egregious
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: it might be a mandated "security" feature
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: reminds me of smart phone or Windows security
07:21 PM andypugh: It could at least have required a PWM or something
07:22 PM CaptHindsight: most mechanical locks are almost as easy to open without a key
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: but you'd figure and serious attempt at a secure electric lock would keep the power away from the outside
07:24 PM CaptHindsight: and/any
07:32 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Ok, if yu provide a micro 4 cyl
07:34 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/0sA6Bo0.jpg
07:34 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: https://i.imgur.com/hLz5d94.jpg
07:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52pL2-NozN4 lok at these masters of machinicalization
07:55 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: try putting a kick up in the vent tube ___I"I___
07:56 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: O_o ???
07:56 PM CaptHindsight: ascii pic attached ^^
07:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/ZYTQzjs
07:57 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, a backwards 'p' trap
07:57 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: So you don't think anything is wrong with the engine?
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: maybe if the oil fights gravity, then there might be concern
07:59 PM jymmmm: So oil getting into the air filter is "normal", not a head gasket or ring issue?
07:59 PM CaptHindsight: the air filter enclosure will have slight negative pressure
08:00 PM CaptHindsight: drawing vapor from inside the valve cover
08:01 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Even during startup to leave a 3" puddle on the ground?
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: do a compression test and ask the maker if your numbers look right
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: 3" puddle from where, dripping from the air filter housing?
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: got to go, store closes in 30 minutes
08:03 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: yeah, dripping from the air filter box
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: try the inverted P trap first
08:03 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: k
08:03 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: have fun at the store wearing your mask
08:10 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
08:30 PM perry_j1987: hows it going guys
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: I wear a hipster bald cap and long beaded face mask
08:36 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: heh
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: my tattoos are all Bic ball point pen that i change weekly
08:37 PM jymmmm: not crayola washable markers?
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: Bic has that old world look
08:37 PM jymmmm: lol
08:38 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: So you dont think there are any issues with the engine itself?
08:38 PM CaptHindsight: and stays on when I sweat
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: my #1 theory is the oil splashes into the hose and gravity does the rest
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: the inverted P should tell us
08:39 PM jymmmm: there is a flutter valve inside the valve cover (previous pic)
08:41 PM jymmmm: I think (can't recall) the last time this happened, it was during initial startup too
08:41 PM jymmmm: Pizza Hut filed BK
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: I'm officially banned in Europe
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: "now yuse can't leave"
08:42 PM jymmmm: what for this time?
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/07/01/us-europe-eu-travel-ban-5-things-americans-must-know/#3c091ea56c4c
09:15 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: I did some test with the lathe, and on the OD I'm getting everything perfect, and I test the head stock, and the carriage, and they also run true,
09:17 PM pink_vampire: but boring operation is slight tapered
09:18 PM Tom_L: and you took out the slop in the tool post?
09:19 PM Tom_L: backlash
09:19 PM pink_vampire: there is no slope in it
09:20 PM pink_vampire: I'm using the carriage to move it in and out, and the compound is locked.
09:25 PM pink_vampire: I think the boring bar flex when the tip of it touch the bottom of the hole, and then it grub on the material and cut it a bit larger on the deeper side of the hole.
09:33 PM Tom_L: cut the ID longer than you need then bore it
09:56 PM pink_vampire: Tom_L: I will try that