#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 24 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:26 AM pink_vampire: hi
01:41 AM Deejay: moin
01:41 AM pink_vampire: hi Deejay
01:41 AM Deejay: hi pink
01:42 AM pink_vampire: how is everything?
01:43 AM pink_vampire: Deejay: you just say moin every time. to the point I was start thinking that you are a bot.
02:02 AM Loetmichel: btw, our design engineer is a bit funny... he let me make the power buttons for these monitors out of glow in the dark filament... (lower two pics) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17868&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:02 AM Loetmichel: mornin, too
03:13 AM howto: well guys let me tell you what i solved till now.
03:14 AM howto: i managed to get the max jitter from 290xxx to 175xxx by disabling the mxm video card
03:14 AM howto: xxx means aonther 3 digits that is :))
03:15 AM howto: the idea is that it start with 3 or four digits than it goes sky high
03:16 AM howto: i found out from linuxcnc site that the wheezy version is at EOL is this true?
03:16 AM howto: they recommend the latest stretch version
03:16 AM howto: hey pink_vampire
03:17 AM pink_vampire: hi howto
03:17 AM howto: read the upper message to see what was i up to in the last few hours :)))
03:18 AM howto: is the wheezy realy EOL?
03:18 AM pink_vampire: yes
03:18 AM howto: ooh and i halved the max jitter numbers by disabling the video card
03:19 AM howto: what i figure is that even if i have a native parport it still behave as those card versions on the dell machines for some reason
03:20 AM howto: and a preemt rt distro would be in order...i suspect a reinstall of the os is in order in a few hours :))
03:21 AM howto: pink_vampire in this case i should just install the stretch version hope linucnc has the cooltool 540 3 axis in the config and proceed with the stepconf as i did with this one
03:22 AM howto: but i could just do a llatency test with the live version of that one to see if something changes in the good side first
03:23 AM howto: time to image the thing on a stick then
03:25 AM pink_vampire: try the live cd first
03:53 AM howto: thats what i thought...it spares me the broken dreams afterwards :))
03:54 AM howto: by the way since i have a core i7 i should use the amd64 version right?
03:55 AM pink_vampire: yes
03:55 AM howto: thank you for reasurance
03:55 AM howto: time to image the thing then
03:56 AM pink_vampire: do a boot from usb
04:01 AM howto: yep thats what i intend to do after it finshes writting to it
04:02 AM howto: i do not know why your terminal wizardry dindt work but the graphic one did...still baffles me to this second
04:03 AM howto: but hey it's a dell so maybe that is the reason :)))
04:03 AM pink_vampire: I have no ide
04:03 AM pink_vampire: idea*
04:03 AM howto: ok time to go to limbo land for a few minutes or so...be right back with the results
04:21 AM XXCoder: pink_vampire: im now alive
04:29 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: what do you mean?
04:29 AM XXCoder: just got home from work heh
04:33 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: I'm looking for a jewelers saw
04:33 AM XXCoder: yeah? heard its nice for some cutting type
04:33 AM pink_vampire: do you know any good brand?
04:33 AM XXCoder: nope sadly
04:34 AM pink_vampire: there is some cheap stuff on ebay, and some people recomended the knew concept saw
04:35 AM pink_vampire: but some other people show that it is poorly designed.
04:36 AM pink_vampire: for more then $100 I will think it should last about forever,
04:36 AM pink_vampire: most other saws are about $10-$30
04:36 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^
04:37 AM XXCoder: yeah. though higher price dont always translate to higher quality
04:37 AM XXCoder: reviews is great way to spot common flaws
04:37 AM pink_vampire: https://www.knewconcepts.com/jewelers-saws-and-tools.php
04:37 AM XXCoder: ie: even 4 star review says "knob fell off but otherwise amazing!"
04:38 AM pink_vampire: link?
04:38 AM XXCoder: no, it was some item i looked into couple years ago. no link now
04:38 AM XXCoder: not a jewel saw
04:38 AM pink_vampire: oh I see
04:38 AM XXCoder: it was example on sometimes reviews expose a common flaw for given product
04:39 AM XXCoder: interesting designs
04:40 AM pink_vampire: the funny thing is that I have the sheet of aluminum and a cnc and a lathe
04:40 AM pink_vampire: so I can probably able to make one
04:41 AM pink_vampire: I just not sure how the lock knob is work
04:41 AM XXCoder: lemme see
04:42 AM pink_vampire: https://www.knewconcepts.com/images/products/Larger-Images/Mk3-Saws/Mk3-3inch-lever.jpg
04:42 AM XXCoder: you turn knob to get it nearly tight, then turn lever to make it very tight
04:42 AM pink_vampire: the lever tension
04:42 AM XXCoder: if its too tight it wont lock, you need to loosen knob a little more then turn lever agaibn
04:42 AM XXCoder: as on how it has rotate and clicky at each 45 degree, no idea how they do that
04:43 AM XXCoder: maybe similiar to your height indictor balls
04:46 AM pink_vampire: the idea is that you set the tension with the knob and then you can release the tension with the lever if you need to take one end of the blade out and put in to a hole and start sawing again
05:08 AM veegee: So I was talking about creating a custom mix of helium and argon from a tank of pure argon, a tank of pure helium, and a Y connector
05:08 AM veegee: I was worried it wasn't a good way to do it
05:09 AM veegee: But I saw some welding videos from the "pros" and it turns out that is indeed a legitimate way to do it
05:09 AM XXCoder: yeah you just design it to ratio you want
05:10 AM XXCoder: though i now wonder if pressure of tanks would affect the mix
05:10 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:12 AM XXCoder: hey the j
05:12 AM XXCoder: wa state just mandated masks starting friday
05:12 AM pink_vampire: veegee: what is the advantage of the helium?
05:12 AM XXCoder: high pitch voice
05:13 AM pink_vampire: i mean for welding
05:13 AM XXCoder: i know lol had to joke tho
05:17 AM veegee: pink_vampire transfers significantly more heat than argon. You need it for metals that have high thermal conductivity like aluminum
05:17 AM veegee: And for copper, you need 100% helium because of copper's insanely high thermal conductivity
05:17 AM veegee: Trying to TIG weld copper on anything less is a losing battle
05:18 AM veegee: So generally 75% argon 25% helium is good for most thin aluminum
05:18 AM veegee: 50/50 is good for thick aluminum
05:18 AM JT-Cave: we have had 2 days with over 400 new cases
05:18 AM veegee: 75% helium 25% argon for very thick aluminum
05:19 AM veegee: But obviously storing like 5 different cylinders is far more expensive than just one of each and mixing your own on the fly depending on what you're welding
05:19 AM veegee: JT-Cave america?
05:19 AM JT-Cave: sure glad I didn't know that when I TIG welded some copper pipes
05:19 AM JT-Cave: Missouri
05:19 AM veegee: sorry about your shithole of a country :(
05:20 AM veegee: what gas did you use for copper pipe?
05:20 AM veegee: pure argon?
05:20 AM XXCoder: jt ya wa state jumped up on east side so they said enough is enough and required public to be all masked. no unmasked face allowed starting friday
05:20 AM JT-Cave: I'm not in a shit hole I'm in a rural place
05:20 AM JT-Cave: what ever is on the TIG welder normally
05:20 AM veegee: pure argon
05:20 AM veegee: maybe copper pipe is thin enough
05:21 AM JT-Cave: yea I guess it's been so long since I've TIG welded it ain't funny
05:21 AM XXCoder: time to dust off? ;)
05:21 AM veegee: But helium makes a huge difference
05:21 AM JT-Cave: too many other projects on the list
05:21 AM XXCoder: oh wa east side is mostly rural besides one city
05:22 AM veegee: #1 move to a sane country like Canada
05:22 AM veegee: we have a democracy, not a dictatorship
05:22 AM veegee: our right wing is more left than your left wing
05:22 AM XXCoder: we dont have dictorship either. we have totalalism
05:23 AM veegee: and political crimes don't go unchecked
05:23 AM veegee: also police don't murder black people
05:23 AM veegee: well maybe 1 in like the whole year
05:23 AM XXCoder: quite a lot less services like asl relay services, etc
05:24 AM XXCoder: you guys dont even have tty relay, old tecg even
05:24 AM XXCoder: *tech
05:25 AM veegee: I haven't checked
05:25 AM veegee: We have other services to compensate for that
05:25 AM XXCoder: like?
05:25 AM veegee: nurses
05:25 AM XXCoder: i dont need nurses at interview ;)
05:25 AM XXCoder: i would need interpeters lol
05:25 AM veegee: or that
05:26 AM veegee: if you have a disability, the government will take care of you
05:26 AM veegee: free transportation
05:26 AM XXCoder: yeah pension off. it took me years to get off ssi and ssdi :)
05:30 AM XXCoder: i hear canada have far better da pay support but I rather workl
05:30 AM XXCoder: ah left
05:36 AM XXCoder: JT-Cave: hope it settles down, heard southwest usa is getting really hammered now
05:39 AM JT-Cave: I think a lot of people just don't care any more and they will pay with pain and suffering and possibly death
05:40 AM XXCoder: or belive some people too much :(
05:40 AM XXCoder: church that recently had rally tried a truly stupid lie about air cleaner
05:40 AM XXCoder: even if they did have em, person to person is still a LOT closer than vents or whatever
05:41 AM JT-Cave: yep
05:42 AM XXCoder: note I am sad that people willing get themselves harmed, but well thats normal
05:42 AM XXCoder: when person lies and leads many to harm that is where I get pissed
05:50 AM JT-Cave: https://www.amazon.com/Oiyagai-Waterproof-Rocker-Switch-Position/dp/B07P8ZZN2J I think I found a switch for the parts washer
05:51 AM JT-Cave: I hope it's the right size
05:52 AM XXCoder: current ratings seem ojk
05:52 AM XXCoder: third picture has sizes
05:52 AM JT-Cave: yea and it has some dimensions
05:53 AM JT-Cave: just have to measure the hole
06:09 AM XXCoder: cool
06:23 AM Tom_L: morning
06:23 AM XXCoder: hey tom
06:26 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:29 AM pink_vampire: hi Tom_L
06:46 AM jwhitmore: Hello all, I've a few questions about building a CNC, was hoping to use open source based parts. Trying to choose a controller board to connect to the stepper motors. The hardware list in linuxCNC seems a bit dated, and more importantly USB seems not to be supported for 'real time' reasons. To be honest I'm only starting out so was hoping to get something up and running on the cheap, and learn from that.
06:58 AM howto: yeah the stretch has the best name ...it stretched the latency up to a second :))
06:59 AM howto: hi pink_vampire...want to hear the results?
07:00 AM howto: atleast with wheezy its constent somewhere in 230.000 nanoseconds max latency jitter, whatever those numbers are
07:00 AM howto: with stretch it crossed over a second
07:13 AM Tom_L: howto, better find a different motherboard
07:14 AM Tom_L: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
07:14 AM Tom_L: probably an old list by now
07:15 AM Tom_L: an raspberrypi 4 might be an option
07:31 AM howto: i am going to retry installing the freedos version in the computer
08:04 AM unterhaus_: I bought a router on amazon. they asked me to answer a customer question, "can I create my own network name or am I stuck with the default"
08:05 AM unterhaus_: I think the answer is "most people can create their own name, but I doubt you will be able to"
08:07 AM pink_vampire: howto: what do you mean by "freedos" ?? are you talking about the newer version of debian?
08:10 AM jymmmm: Frito pie!!!
08:12 AM unterhaus_: what's the name of the dos cnc program?
08:14 AM howto: pink_vampire i suspect is a "debian" version because it is not a quite pure old dos.It runs on top of some linux components.
08:14 AM howto: Havent you heard of FreeDOS?
08:14 AM jymmmm: unterhaus_: TurboCNC
08:15 AM jymmmm: unterhaus_: http://www.dakeng.com/turbocnc.html
08:15 AM howto: unterhaus_ it is the program that is given with the step four basic 540 machine
08:17 AM howto: mine it's called Milling V4
08:19 AM howto: i am quite surprised linuxcnc needs all this holy grail pc parts to work and these guys that ask money for their "proprietary" ones can work in any machine you throw at them
08:20 AM howto: i would donate to the project if i could do something with the program...but it's like the program refuses to work for me altogether
08:21 AM howto: well the rtai worked the best untill now if you can call it that...i managed to move the machine without manual intervention...dont know how i did it either
08:22 AM howto: aah i know how i configured it...i could do it again if needed :)))
08:22 AM howto: but the example file have no idea how it was done or how i could do my own
08:25 AM unterhaus_: Is there really anything proprietary that works with any hardware? I thought Mach 4 was fairly particular
08:25 AM unterhaus_: a dos program is probably pretty happy on any hardware, but they usually need to have a parallel port at a particular address
08:26 AM howto: the one you mentioned earlier turbocnc is proprietary
08:26 AM unterhaus_: not sure how loyal modern mobo are to the IBM PC standard config
08:26 AM unterhaus_: I'm sure I have a pc where turbocnc would not run a machine
08:27 AM howto: mach 3 team says that it works on anything with a parallel port even if its new or a laptop
08:27 AM unterhaus_: and anyway, I'm fairly confident I could do everything that turbocnc does with linuxcnc
08:28 AM unterhaus_: are you having latency problems?
08:30 AM unterhaus_: I keep wondering if it's possible to hijack a timer interrupt in linux like it is in dos. Surely newer mobos have extra timers?
08:31 AM howto: this the paradox...the program says i do in the 6digit range but the machine seems to work fine in test without a workpiece...doesnt seems to loose steps
08:31 AM unterhaus_: mach 3 requires unsupported and unsafe 32 bit windows, that doesn't seem like every computer to me
08:32 AM howto: i have a precison m6600 with a core i7 and it seems is the worst
08:32 AM howto: according to the tests
08:33 AM unterhaus_: it really depends on how poorly the bios is written
08:33 AM howto: i am thinking if i can install a coreboot version of bios on it
08:34 AM unterhaus_: I looked at that, it seems like they are falling behind. Which only makes sense
08:34 AM unterhaus_: I saw mention of bios adjusting programs, but never tried it
08:36 AM howto: smictrl should do something but never tried it on the installed distro only on ubuntu
08:36 AM howto: i forgot even how it works
08:36 AM howto: preemptive gave me a second of jitter max
08:37 AM howto: atleast rtai keeps a consistent 240.000 nanoseconds
08:37 AM howto: on both numbers
08:38 AM howto: its just a fluctuation...but if that could loose a step on the machine that wold be a bad day in itself
08:38 AM unterhaus_: how much fiddling with the bios settings have you done?
08:39 AM howto: everithing disabling cores,disabling hyperthreading, mxm video card,etc
08:39 AM unterhaus_: the simple solution is to use a mesa
08:40 AM howto: how do you use that and what is it?
08:40 AM unterhaus_: those things are not likely the problem, depending on what "etc" means. Energy savings is always the problem
08:41 AM unterhaus_: http://store.mesanet.com/
08:41 AM howto: c states disabled
08:41 AM howto: putting cpu in highest performane mode
08:41 AM howto: disable turbo boost
08:42 AM howto: disabling cores
08:42 AM unterhaus_: too bad latency isn't easier to troubleshoot
08:43 AM howto: the most consistence i had by keepng all cores up hyperthreading disabled,
08:43 AM howto: network disabled too
08:44 AM howto: i suspect linux has its own latency problems too
08:45 AM howto: i could install freedos on the machine and see how the original program performs
08:50 AM jymmmm: TurboCNC will even work on a 286
08:52 AM pink_vampire: I've tried it on my 386
08:52 AM pink_vampire: and it didn't work
08:55 AM skunkworks: howto: what is the computer?
08:55 AM skunkworks: hardware
08:56 AM skunkworks: rt-preempt isn't likely to run printer port speeds unless you are lucky.
08:56 AM howto: dell precision m6600 with parallel port docking station
08:57 AM skunkworks: my laptop will do around 80us latency - which is fine for external interface stuff like mesa
08:58 AM skunkworks: Yah - I have a m7720 that i was never able to get decent latency on. It will run 500hz servo thread - that is it
08:59 AM skunkworks: laptops are usually not that great.
08:59 AM howto: 230732 ns in tests
09:00 AM howto: but the machine seems to work fine in test with no workpiece
09:01 AM skunkworks: yes - that sounds right. idle=poll and isolcpus=(what ever your highest cpu number is - zero based)
09:01 AM skunkworks: might help
09:01 AM skunkworks: but I doubt it
09:01 AM howto: i am going to boot wheezy on a pentium 3 hpwhere do i put that command
09:01 AM howto: ?
09:01 AM skunkworks: kernel line
09:07 AM skunkworks: you can test it in the grub screen by what is it 'e'? then add after quiet on the line
09:07 AM skunkworks: I have seen hp sff run decent with rt-preemt. 8300's and 8200's
09:07 AM skunkworks: 40khz step rates.
09:07 AM skunkworks: but anything above that and external hardware works so much better.
09:07 AM howto: i dont need the machine to work fast i just need it to finsh the job corectly
09:07 AM skunkworks: what kind of step rate do you need?
09:10 AM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMreIgsMnW8
09:20 AM gregcnc: hot wire robot https://youtu.be/lLKI0HWV3dc
09:22 AM howto: this is academic science guys i just want to run a step four basic 540 machine not to make a doctorate research
09:23 AM howto: i suspect i am going to generate the files on this computer do simulations and the actual work on some other computer
09:24 AM howto: this laptop seems to be crap at cnc stuff
09:24 AM howto: a mesa card will be more expensive than my cnc probably
09:29 AM methods_: i need one of those hot wire bots for my nose/ear hair
09:42 AM skunkworks: 89 dollars mesa card gets you 2 printer ports worth of i/o
09:43 AM skunkworks: but you just need to find a computer someone threw out..
09:43 AM skunkworks: not a laptop
09:47 AM howto: that is spiffy, skunkworks but how do i connect it to my laptop ?
09:47 AM howto: do you have a link to one?
09:48 AM howto: ooh now i read your entire message :))))
09:49 AM skunkworks: ethernet - but again - the laptop would still need to have decent realtime performance.
09:49 AM howto: i could just build a new one according to linuxcnc site and not needing the card in the first place
09:49 AM perry_j1987: i hear the raspberry pi 4 is suitable for linuxcnc now?
09:49 AM skunkworks: It is really good with mesa hardware ;)
09:49 AM howto: raspberry pi is suitable for the garbage can....i mean for the recycle bin
09:50 AM skunkworks: gpio stepping is good currently to about 10khz
09:51 AM skunkworks: howto: eh - it works pretty decent..
09:51 AM skunkworks: howto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7CO9gohaXE&t=118s
09:51 AM skunkworks: that is the rpi
09:51 AM howto: i am just foing to throw a wood piece in the machine and see how the "pcb etching" is going to be
09:51 AM skunkworks: and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Wz8vnFAQU
09:51 AM perry_j1987: thats mind bending to watch lol
09:52 AM skunkworks: and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SEB7TuCUR0
09:53 AM skunkworks: (more the coolness of linuxcnc than the rpi - but still)
09:54 AM howto: everybody shows hermle grade machines here.For cryin' out loud people i just upgraded from a chisel in the cnc era...i just want to see this piece working....are there any other motor conrtrol drivers for it so i can buy and be done with it?
09:54 AM howto: for the step four basic 540?
09:55 AM howto: like something over usb?
09:55 AM skunkworks: like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs-qVQtjOSs
09:56 AM howto: meh....that's slightly better :)))
09:56 AM howto: at least i can relate to that somehow
09:57 AM howto: mine would be better if it would work properly....i mean i dont even know
09:58 AM skunkworks: howto: there is a fundimental difference between linuxcnc and almost all other machine controll programs. Linuxcnc is the realtime control. It requires realtime in the computer. The external interface devices are simple things that do what the computer doesn't do well. Like high speed step generation, pwm, encoder counting and so on. There needs to be a realtime link between the computer
09:58 AM skunkworks: external hardware. So usb is out.
09:59 AM howto: isnt that what the motor control unit does?
09:59 AM howto: i get the picture but still
10:16 AM burklefoo: Best bet if you want software stepping with LinuxCNC is to find a suitable computer first (test with live CD USB stick so you don't need to do a full install if its not suitable)
10:18 AM howto: i am interested how this mother board connects to the parallel motor control unit? : Gigabyte A320M-S2H AM4
10:19 AM howto: i am going to build a system but the site doesnt tell what type of parallel port card they used
10:19 AM howto: the system will cost half as this laptop i'm sure
10:25 AM Loetmichel: *giggle* sooo, now the coffee is back to drinkable... half an hour on the cup warmer took care of the spilled Isopropyl alcohol i accidentally spilled into it ;)
10:26 AM howto: yeah but if i take the parts in the table provided by linuxcnc it should be fine no?
10:27 AM howto: i sounded like fussili the magcian on that :)))
10:27 AM howto: magician
10:27 AM howto: but the question still stands
10:27 AM howto: :)
10:28 AM howto: it will cost me about 300 bucks roughly calculated
10:34 AM howto: but i first need to break a wooden workpiece to see how those latency numbers affects the job first
10:35 AM howto: i will probably have a video on youtube how it will try to kill me asking about sarah connor's whereabouts
10:47 AM burklefoo: I suspect you would be better of just buying a 8300 SFF or picking up a random free PC rather than a new high end PC that may or may not have good latency
10:49 AM howto: on the site shows some tested motherboards and cpus
10:50 AM howto: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test
10:53 AM howto: the first line in the table
10:53 AM howto: ifound the parts new
10:53 AM howto: i found
10:55 AM unterhaus_: I take it the new RTAI is still in progress?
10:55 AM howto: it seems its EOL...just when it got better
10:57 AM howto: i dont know what linuxcnc team is on but i dont want any of that stuff...preemt rt gave me a second of latency fro cryin' out loud.I dont think anyone even ever saw numbers like that on their latency test window ever
10:58 AM howto: well... the computers arent playing nice anymore because some manufacturers are playing hitler and stalin roleplay but that is anither discution
10:59 AM howto: with the users that supose to buy them that is
11:00 AM howto: when someone finds a professional use of pcs the manufacturers end the life of the product beacause hey it is not expensive enough
11:01 AM burklefoo: http://freeby.mesanet.com/h97-g3258-preemt-rt.png
11:02 AM burklefoo: Preempt-RT is capable of great latency on the right hardware
11:03 AM burklefoo: Laptops usually a bad choice for real time because they almost always have power management that cannot be disabled
11:05 AM howto: in this case who calls them workstations should rethink his her sanity
11:07 AM howto: burklefoo...well said on the right hardware
11:19 AM burklefoo: I would say you can get acceptable LinuxCNC parallel port latency on about 80% of motherboards (and maybe 1% of laptops)
11:30 AM jymmmm: WOW!!! 6000 new cases yesterday for California
11:41 AM unterhaus_: excess deaths in the U.S. are about the same number as covid deaths. So 250000 people have died of covid, most likely
11:42 AM unterhaus_: exactly the opposite of what people are saying about overcounting
11:43 AM unterhaus_: sad thing is, if we had been wearing masks from the beginning, we could be back to normal. Just sickening
11:52 AM JT-Shop: too bad there was not enough masks to go around in the beginning...
11:55 AM unterhaus_: most other countries have home made masks. That's what I'm wearing.
11:55 AM unterhaus_: it doesn't take an n95 mask as long as everyone is wearing one
11:56 AM unterhaus_: my daughter says it's dehumanizing to call people "plague rats" but IDK
12:25 PM t4nk_freenode: I hope you do wear masks, I don't want to catch what you have.
12:30 PM howto: ...ssssomebody sssstop them:))))
12:52 PM veek: hey sync, that vacupac roll 150xm x 200m - do you have an account somewhere to check the price? Is the weight listed?
01:17 PM unterhaus_: I really need to get someone to clean my gutters. The roofers put the gutter guard in wrong and it's worse than it used to be without them
01:18 PM unterhaus_: 30 foot drop to the back yard means I'm not going to do it myself. I don't bounce like I used to
01:21 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: RTAI is still in the works
01:30 PM unterhaus_: thanks that's what I thought
01:30 PM unterhaus_: I wonder what the secret sauce is on Paolo's computer
01:35 PM unterhaus_: CaptHindsight, do you know which kernel version they are working with?
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: we don't even know if his tree works yet, it's also still has 500K+ lines of cruft
02:07 PM CaptHindsight: took Alec several months to clean it up a few years ago
02:12 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: linux-4.19.114 was the latest
02:18 PM unterhaus_: If I want to play with it should I just get andy's tree?
02:19 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: I haven't been following the latest, you'll have to ask Andy
02:47 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: small parts from China are taking <2 weeks from China via SpeedPAK
03:12 PM CaptHindsight: only 4 days from China to USPS handoff
03:31 PM Loetmichel: maaan, thats the fifth ad for a "revolutionary new Air cooler made by an inventor" i see in succession on a couple youtube videos... That they want to sell for $$$ Is the world getting dumber by the day? Thats a simple swamp cooler not even with an external aur circuit, aka it will make the air in the room a bit colder and a LOT mor humid... :-(
03:34 PM XXCoder: geez
03:49 PM unterhaus_: swamp coolers are great in Utah
03:49 PM unterhaus_: except when it hit 100F, it seemed like it was always too humid to work
03:50 PM unterhaus_: there is probably a good reason for that, maybe the lake?
03:50 PM XXCoder: you probably can build a cooling column
03:50 PM XXCoder: uses very little water.
03:51 PM unterhaus_: I have heard they use window swamp coolers in India, I suppose if the water is cool it has some effect
03:51 PM Deejay: gn8
03:52 PM XXCoder: column is wrong word
03:52 PM unterhaus_: swamp coolers don't use that much water
03:52 PM XXCoder: http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Another_Do_it_yourself_cooling_option/
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: kolum
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: or maybe kahlum
03:54 PM unterhaus_: XXCoder, that seems like it's just an elaborate swamp cooler
03:54 PM XXCoder: in a way it is
03:54 PM XXCoder: but it also uses rising hot air and decreasing cold air to be pretty lot more effective
03:55 PM unterhaus_: I guess I don't quite understand it since it looks like they are cooling the hot air at the top of the column
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://medium.com/skeptikai/the-real-story-behind-the-quote-theres-a-sucker-born-every-minute-1db9a7220d34
03:55 PM XXCoder: basically it lengthens falling time
03:55 PM XXCoder: so cooling ponental is much higher
03:56 PM XXCoder: im not really explaining it well
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: in India they eat "cooling" foods, usually full of hot peppers
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: causing you to perspire and cool yourself
03:57 PM unterhaus_: I'm not sure I buy the hot food explanation
03:57 PM CaptHindsight: it's common in southern Asia
03:58 PM unterhaus_: your mouth is burning so you don't notice that you were already drenched in sweat
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: where the spicy dishes tend to originate from
03:58 PM unterhaus_: and us northern types eat bland food
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: your mouth gets used to it
04:00 PM XXCoder: not the type i was talking about, but cool nevertheless. https://youtu.be/sWJCWDpY9is
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: you work your way up over time
04:00 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: to my knowledge the food tends to be "hot" in hot countrys because in days before fridges that was a way to get it to spoil not that fast. (capsaicin is a mild desinfectant)
04:00 PM roycroft: and when your mouth is burning, something nice and bubbly like beer helps you get rid of that heat
04:00 PM roycroft: so eat spicy food and drink beer when you are hot
04:01 PM roycroft: but then drink heaps and heaps of water
04:01 PM Loetmichel: i actually like hot food... although i am a german and not THAT used to it by culture ;)
04:01 PM roycroft: germans prefer smelly food to hot food
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: doesn't take too long
04:02 PM roycroft: smelly smelly food like leberwurst and limburger käse
04:02 PM roycroft: but i suppose that beer washes down the smelly taste
04:02 PM roycroft: so that part still works
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: I'm to the point where it just bothers my stomach, I can't get food hot enough to bother my mouth anywhere
04:03 PM CaptHindsight: for smelly try stinky tofu
04:04 PM roycroft: i think the chinese eclipse the germans when it comes to smelly cuisine though
04:04 PM XXCoder: unterhaus_: theres also this design, just make a nice tall ceiling room, rest of house hot hair will travel up into that room
04:05 PM XXCoder: have a nice drain system there and your house is better on hot peaks so its easier to cool
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: Durian is another stinky one, way stronger than limburger cheese to me
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: actually banned on public transport https://theculturetrip.com/asia/singapore/articles/8-things-you-need-to-know-about-durian-the-worlds-smelliest-fruit/
04:06 PM XXCoder: unterhaus_: http://2030palette.org/evaporative-cooling-towers/ type that uses water.
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: nothing like wearing a suit in southern Asia
04:08 PM unterhaus_: the place I worked at in Utah had a giant swamp cooler on the roof
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: you wear a t-shirt soak up the sweat so it doesn't seep through the jacket
04:08 PM unterhaus_: sounds miserable
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: not my idea of comfortable
04:09 PM roycroft: a lot of brewers make simple swamp coolers to keep their fermenting beer cool in the summer
04:09 PM roycroft: they set the carboy inside a big round pan full of water
04:09 PM roycroft: soak a tee-shirt in water, put it on the carboy with the bottom sitting in the pan of water
04:09 PM roycroft: and blow a fan across the tee-shirt
04:10 PM roycroft: that usually gete them 3-4 degrees of cooling, which is enough if you do it the right time of year
04:10 PM roycroft: and are making the right beer
04:10 PM roycroft: it's impossible to do for a lager, unless you live somewhere like scotland
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: only high 70's here today, the few weeks are forecast ~90F (33C) but little rain
04:10 PM roycroft: 29 here todya
04:10 PM roycroft: it got up to 33 yesterday
04:11 PM roycroft: but here's the thing
04:11 PM roycroft: in my part of the world summers are dry and winters are humid
04:11 PM roycroft: but yesterday and today the humidity was above 75%
04:11 PM roycroft: so it felt like dc in the summer here yesterday
04:11 PM roycroft: utterly miserable
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: here it's near 100% humidity at night falling to ~60% by afternoon
04:12 PM roycroft: actually right this minute the humidity is "only" 55%
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: 46% here now
04:13 PM roycroft: but that's still really high for eugene in late june
04:13 PM roycroft: it should be 35%
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: last nice hours of the month
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: we had a really wet spring
04:14 PM CaptHindsight: flooding
04:14 PM CaptHindsight: now it's hot and dry for the next few weeks
04:14 PM CaptHindsight: dry-ish since everything was flooded
04:16 PM unterhaus_: research gate sent me an email the other day and I finally read one
04:17 PM unterhaus_: it was about being cited. I feel like the person probably didn't understand a damn thing about our paper
04:17 PM unterhaus_: I swear 10% of the citations of our work are from people that do data analysis of things they don't understand
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-4inch-100W-Round-LED-Work-Lights-DRL-Combo-Beam-White-Offroad-Fog-Driving-12V/392764607095 looking for similar
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: but with specs that make sense
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: they list different wattages and lumens thoughout the ad
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: 100W, 40W, 10,000 lumens, up to 18,000 :)
04:23 PM * Loetmichel had a couple 100LEDs with 3° lenses on his moped as a headlight for a test... MAAN what a difference to the 15W bilux lamp that is in there... and MAAAN would that blind ANY oncoming traffic ;)
04:24 PM Loetmichel: couple 100W leds
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: this for the lower area of a bumper, few inches above the ground
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: 10-15cm
04:26 PM unterhaus_: a couple of winters ago, I was out riding my bike in the woods when a guy came driving the other way with a light bar that was pretty impressive
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: trying to find a legit listing
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: i think the police around here ticket for having a blinding light bar
04:27 PM unterhaus_: the snow was over a foot deep on the road, no cops
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: I see the trucks with them turn them off when approaching
04:28 PM unterhaus_: I can't imagine something like that on a road with traffic
04:28 PM CaptHindsight: but not if they are behind you
04:29 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: over here the police would write you a ticket for ANY light that is not approved for your car and has an "E-number" and a triple ~ in the glass
04:29 PM Loetmichel: you dont even ahve to use ti, its enough if its mounted and connected and COULD be used
04:29 PM Loetmichel: have, it
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: trade-offs as usual, on the other hand they are unlikely to shoot you for being non-white
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: what I really have learned through my travels, it all trade-offs for what gets enforced and what doesn't
04:32 PM unterhaus_: I think that cops here will cite you for some lights, like the ones under the car. Not sure why those are illegal
04:33 PM unterhaus_: Last year I saw a truck that was lit up like a christmas tree, incredibly gaudy. I did like the wheel lights though
04:34 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: indeed
04:35 PM Loetmichel: there just were a discussion in german media if the police should be a bit more stern after 19 police officers got injured on a demo.
04:35 PM Loetmichel: they arrested 29 or so of the demonstrants.
04:35 PM Loetmichel: in the us i imagine that would have ended in a bloodbath
04:36 PM Loetmichel: fun fact: said demo was IIRC for the black guy that got killed by a cop a couple weeks ago or so
04:36 PM Loetmichel: in the US
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: people still seem to take driving more seriously there
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: red light means stop
04:39 PM CaptHindsight: stop signs mean stop
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: I was watching a german TV show the other day about police and what happens on their calls
04:41 PM CaptHindsight: similar to a show here called Cops
04:42 PM CaptHindsight: you can really see the difference
04:43 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: there ARE german cops that are on a power trip. just a LOT less than in the US
04:44 PM Loetmichel: may have to do with regular psychological screening and a 3.5 year training period rather than a few weeks. also the fact that you have to have a highschool diploma
04:44 PM Loetmichel: to get a police training/job
04:46 PM Loetmichel: i found it funny that the entire german police force shot a few 100 bullets in all of 2014 (IIRC)
04:46 PM Loetmichel: ON duty of course, not counting firing range training
04:47 PM Loetmichel: and we are talking about 300k police officers, not a couple or a few 100
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: well most people here that live outside of cities don't travel outside the country or even their area
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: they aren't aware of what goes on in other places
05:29 PM unterhaus_: I'm trying to think of how I might have computer control of my contactor in combination with local start/stop
05:29 PM unterhaus_: I think maybe the computer requires 2 relays?
05:30 PM unterhaus_: or maybe the computer and local stop button can be in series
05:31 PM Tom_L: wire a logic relay to the contactor coil
05:32 PM Tom_L: DPDT if you need
05:33 PM unterhaus_: I'm pretty sure I have done this in the past, but maybe the computer just turned it on and off with a mushroom switch for estop
05:33 PM Tom_L: jt used to have some on his site
05:34 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, did you take off your misc surplus off the site?
05:34 PM Tom_L: he had some nice din mount relays at one time
05:34 PM unterhaus_: I have relays
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: those are two ways to do it ^^
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: you can also have more parts do it, more relays and switches
05:36 PM unterhaus_: I have gotten used to having an x10 outlet turn it on and off, but I'm pretty sure the current draw blew that
05:36 PM unterhaus_: in any event, it's not working
05:37 PM unterhaus_: I would like to have local control with no computer required tho.
05:37 PM CaptHindsight: difficult to find a power line switch not controlled through the cloud nowdays
05:38 PM unterhaus_: there is an open source firmware for some of the wifi outlets
05:38 PM unterhaus_: no way I'm routing my dust collector control through the cloud somewhere in China
05:39 PM CaptHindsight: smartplug
05:39 PM unterhaus_: ESPeasy
05:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://hackaday.com/2016/02/06/cheap-wifi-outlets-reflashed-found-to-use-esp8266/
05:41 PM unterhaus_: there is an easy peasy joke just waiting to happen
05:42 PM unterhaus_: I think that's how I found the ESPeasy project. https://github.com/letscontrolit/ESPEasy
05:42 PM CaptHindsight: http://thegreatgeekery.blogspot.com/2016/02/ecoplug-wifi-switch-hacking.html
05:43 PM unterhaus_: I guess there are a couple of firmwares out there
05:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/50050-Indoor-Outlet-Wireless-Programmable/dp/B00ZYLRQNE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=sl1&tag=thegregee-20&linkId=e1c1d1327663fb696afa0b53eed229d1
05:44 PM unterhaus_: I will probably get these because I need 220v https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075CC9J2W/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A14TXQH0XC5NW6&psc=1
05:44 PM CaptHindsight: yeah those look familiar
05:45 PM unterhaus_: the firmware I linked to controls them. They have some extra features
05:46 PM CaptHindsight: Espeasy vs esphome
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: I bet if you posted a turn key, secure from the cloud version most would not even care
05:49 PM CaptHindsight: I'm seeing even less concern for open source lately
05:51 PM unterhaus_: we haven't been burned often enough by cloud based devices
05:51 PM unterhaus_: I used to have my garage door hooked up to the internet, but I disabled that
05:52 PM unterhaus_: when it turned out that cameras were doing ddos, I figured a garage door opener company would not try to protect against that
05:53 PM unterhaus_: It doesn't appear that the garage company has changed anything in the past few years since that happened
05:54 PM unterhaus_: how many people have open mics in their house feeding google and amazon? That's insane.
05:55 PM unterhaus_: have to admit the main reason I avoid cloud based stuff is I'm cheap and don't want to replace it in 3 years because they found out their cloud based model didn't work
05:58 PM CaptHindsight: for powerline control I'd prefer something that uses the powerlines for transmission yet is secure and doesn't travel much beyond the home/office
06:00 PM unterhaus_: funny thing about my x10 stuff is that the keypads are all dying. Not sure why, maybe bad caps?
06:01 PM unterhaus_: I have had really bad luck with power line ethernet. Nothing lasted more than 6 months
06:03 PM unterhaus_: how to tell if your quarantine drinking is veering towards alcoholism
06:03 PM unterhaus_: https://www.prevention.com/health/a32250547/quarantine-drinking-alcoholism/
06:05 PM CaptHindsight: quarantine has been far less for me
06:06 PM CaptHindsight: weed is also legal here now
06:14 PM unterhaus_: one thing quarantine did was revive the linuxcnc mailing list
06:16 PM unterhaus_: fortune 100 CEO has covid
06:38 PM unterhaus_: I ordered those wifi relays, see how long it takes me to hook them up
06:52 PM unterhaus_: I found a video for multi-point control of a contactor, but it's in hindi
06:57 PM CaptHindsight: is there any form of sacrifice in the steps?
07:01 PM unterhaus_: unfortunately, I only know how to curse in Hindi, so I wouldn't know
07:01 PM unterhaus_: so far, no curse words
07:02 PM CaptHindsight: must not be that difficult then
07:02 PM unterhaus_: I had a boss that pretended he didn't understand anything I said in Hindi
07:02 PM unterhaus_: one day I told him his boss was looking for him in Hindi and he lost it, he was afraid of her
07:04 PM CaptHindsight: and it's always fun to act like you don't know what they are saying about you in a foreign language
07:04 PM unterhaus_: I wonder how hard it would be to get the esp in those switches to drive another relay
07:05 PM CaptHindsight: then say something in the same language before they or you leave
07:05 PM unterhaus_: my son had that experience in China. He doesn't know that many idioms, but he can manage
08:49 PM perry_j1987: g'evening guys
08:49 PM perry_j1987: just got my first drill bits from mcmaster
08:50 PM perry_j1987: they seem much nicer than the ones from harbor freight
08:50 PM jesseg: LOL you think? :P
08:50 PM perry_j1987: even nicer than the ones off amazon
08:50 PM perry_j1987: :)
08:52 PM Tom_L: hahaha
08:52 PM Tom_L: no comparison...
08:52 PM perry_j1987: think the flutes will do the cutting without brute force? like these amazon ones?
09:21 PM unterhaus: McMaster will be selling Chinese drill bits soon enough. Their hardware is Chinese now, really disappointed with it.
09:33 PM perry_j1987: what do you classify as hardware?
09:42 PM jymmmm: gatlin gun
09:45 PM perry_j1987: lol
09:46 PM perry_j1987: ordered a pack of miteebite uniforce clamps
09:46 PM perry_j1987: with them in hand.. it feels kind of ridiculous the amount of money for 6 of these little things haha
09:46 PM perry_j1987: i mean the amount of metal etc
09:46 PM perry_j1987: but the value they will give in what they can do is going to be very nice
11:59 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ