#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 18 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:58 PM Tom_L: bad ninnernet today
01:03 PM jymmmm: Hola
01:06 PM * JT-Shop wonders where his scale is...
01:07 PM * jymmmm hides the shrink ray
01:09 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, how's the old machine retrofits goin?
01:14 PM JT-Shop: everything is slow to ship due to the virus, just making a few parts today for the gripping thingy
01:46 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Dumb question, the SOLE purpose of the resistor is just not to damage the PS? Has nothing at all to do with the battery or charging process?
01:52 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: it is to prevent the PSU to switch off (overload on SMPS usually doesent damage it, it simply switches off until you pull the plug and wait 10 secs before plugging it back in)
01:52 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: SMPS?
01:53 PM Loetmichel: Switch Mode Power Supply
01:53 PM Loetmichel: a "transformerless" PSU
01:53 PM jymmmm: Yeah
01:53 PM jymmmm: switching PS
01:53 PM jymmmm: Just never seen SMPS before =)
01:54 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I found an even better PS, tighter tolerances and more availability
01:55 PM Loetmichel: good!
01:56 PM jymmmm: https://www.meanwell.com/productPdf.aspx?i=421
01:56 PM jymmmm: LRS-150F-15
01:59 PM Loetmichel: "overload= 110-140% rated output power, Protection type: Hiccup mode, recovers automatically after fault"
01:59 PM Loetmichel: means: it will "tick" every two seconds or so if you short it or overload it
02:00 PM Loetmichel: s/fault/fault condition is removed
02:00 PM jymmmm: tick, like beep?
02:00 PM Loetmichel: and not charge the battery at all
02:00 PM Deejay: re
02:00 PM jymmmm: hi Deejay
02:00 PM Deejay: hey jymmm*
02:00 PM Loetmichel: no, you can hear the SMPS start, immediatly shut down, wait 2 secs, start again
02:01 PM Loetmichel: the transformer in there will give an audible "tick" every two seconds or so
02:01 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: and that's what the resistor is going to prevent
02:01 PM Loetmichel: when it tries to start
02:01 PM Loetmichel: yes
02:01 PM jymmmm: gotcha
02:01 PM Loetmichel: by limiting how many amps the battery can draw from the PS
02:02 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: So the beginning of the charge cycle, due to the risistor, there is going to be a bit of an up curve initiallytill the battery "catches up" so to speak?
02:02 PM Loetmichel: thats btw a surefire sign of a short somewhere in a device if you can hear the PS doing "tics"
02:08 PM Loetmichel: yes
02:08 PM Loetmichel: an empty battery sits at 3V per cell, meaning 12V for a 4s
02:08 PM Loetmichel: the charger puts out 16.8V
02:08 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I haven't fried enough Sw PS to know (yet) =)
02:08 PM Loetmichel: the resistor is calculated to drop 4.8V if ther is a current of 10A running thru it
02:08 PM Loetmichel: which works out fine for an empty battery
02:08 PM Loetmichel: the fuller the battery gets the lesser the current gets the less the resistor drops
02:08 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Yeah, I did the math this morning to understand where the value came from (the differenial)
02:08 PM Loetmichel: at 1.2A (charge end) it only drops 0.1V per cell
02:08 PM Loetmichel: aka 0,4V for the pack
02:08 PM jymmmm: 4.8V ???
02:08 PM jymmmm: for 4S that is
02:09 PM Loetmichel: the charger will eventually NOT put in any more current if the voltage is correct
02:10 PM jymmmm: and with the resistor in there, should be 99% or so
02:10 PM Loetmichel: yes
02:10 PM jymmmm: Yeah, I really under utilizing these cells, big time
02:12 PM Loetmichel: it will eventually be 100%, but take a bit longer to get there
02:12 PM Loetmichel: from 99% to 100% i mean
02:12 PM Loetmichel: compared to no resistor
02:12 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Yeah, I'm totally fine with that, I'm going for duration than consumption.
02:13 PM jymmmm: I wanted 5-6 hr charge time if I ever go solar
02:13 PM Loetmichel: then the crude "current limit" resistor is the right tghing for you
02:14 PM Loetmichel: it wastes a few watt hours as heat but especially with solar thats usually no problem
02:14 PM Loetmichel: unless you have a very small solar paned and need every watt hour you can get
02:14 PM jymmmm: If I got a SCC, then I'll let it do the charge profile instead of the resistor
02:14 PM Loetmichel: yes, of course
02:15 PM Loetmichel: SCC is like an MPPT?
02:15 PM jymmmm: Solar Charge Controller = SCC, and most definatly MPPT, no PWM at all
02:16 PM Loetmichel: yeah, thats the best way to do it
02:16 PM jymmmm: MPPT might have more EMI/RFI, but I'll deal with it
02:17 PM Loetmichel: if done right: not more than the meanwell SMPS :)
02:17 PM Loetmichel: its actually a wide range dc/dc converter (SMPS) with an "intelligent" control voltage for the conversion factor
02:18 PM jymmmm: There's only ONE mppt control I know of that's RFI quiet, and they are not cheap
02:18 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: you can have that with any chinese origing SMPS
02:19 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: it was pics from the past, few years ago
02:19 PM Loetmichel: i had an Imax B6 (battery charger) clone at the company... charging a battery drill pack about 20 meters from our EMI measurement chamber.
02:20 PM Loetmichel: coworker opens the chamber door: instant overload on the spectrum analyzer... from 50khz to 4ghz... that think was quite a potent RF jammer ;)
02:20 PM jymmmm: https://sunforgellc.com/gv-10/
02:21 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: haha, lovely
02:23 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: That SCC I linked to "Radio Silence - Most MPPT solar charge controllers broadcast Radio Frequency noise from the DC/DC conversion circuit. Unfiltered inputs and outputs waste energy and interfere with nearby or attached electronics. Genasun worked to eliminated RF emissions from our line of charge controllers. During third-party testing for FCC compliance, the test engineer asked us, “Is it on?”. Mission accomplis
02:23 PM jymmmm: hed."
02:23 PM Loetmichel: if it would have been an analog meter it would have pegged on the right side ;)
02:23 PM Loetmichel: hehe
02:23 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: So great for ham gear usage
02:24 PM Loetmichel: we do military standard "tempest" hardening... our analyzers can "hear" a low power bluetooth device from 100m
02:25 PM jymmmm: who gets to calibrate all this test gear?
02:25 PM Loetmichel: we have to conform to EMI levels about 20 to 60 dB UNDER CE norm ;)
02:25 PM jymmmm: eeeesh
02:25 PM Loetmichel: rhode and schwarz, the manufacturers of it ;)
02:25 PM jymmmm: oh, nobody inhouse huh?
02:26 PM Loetmichel: and a single calibration run (every two years) is about $100k ;)
02:26 PM jymmmm: I was JSUT gonna say... that has to be the most expensive calibration sticker ever =)
02:26 PM Loetmichel: nope, we have the right to certify for SDip-27 nato and german Zone model, so it HAS to be calibrated by someone external
02:27 PM Loetmichel: we even get occasional visits of someone from the german BSI that tests the setup
02:27 PM Loetmichel: if it still within calibration
02:27 PM jymmmm: BSI ?
02:27 PM jymmmm: Beaura standards ?
02:28 PM Loetmichel: german Bureau of "Safety in the Information tech"
02:28 PM jymmmm: ah
02:28 PM Loetmichel: the state agency thats concerned with security and "confidental" here.
02:29 PM Loetmichel: also the agency that gave us the right to certify to german zone standards
02:29 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Gotcha. Back to the resistor for a moment, why did we use the differencial voltage (1.2v) to determine the resistor value?
02:30 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/FFCcGTO.png
02:30 PM pink_vampire: What do you think about my mini height gauge design?
02:30 PM jymmmm: pink_vampire: that pic is something pink I'm guessing?
02:30 PM jymmmm: pink_vampire: ok, the tip is pink =)
02:30 PM pink_vampire: Only 2.5" of travel, and can use the renishaw tips.
02:31 PM pink_vampire: yes it is ruby
02:31 PM jymmmm: close enough for your standards =)
02:31 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: empty battery: 3V per cell. full battery 4.2V per cell
02:32 PM pink_vampire: the spectrum between red to purple = pink
02:32 PM Loetmichel: the resistor should NEVER see less than 12V on the "output"
02:32 PM Loetmichel: else the battery is damaged anyways
02:32 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: So the differencial is just the "range" the PS will ever see ?
02:32 PM Loetmichel: yes
02:33 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Hey, yeah, than I'll have BIGGER issues than a charger, but hopefully the BMS will keep things safe in that respect. And I'm going to try to monitor the cells periodically as well
02:35 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: buy one like these and attach it permanently to the pack: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11184&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:35 PM Loetmichel: then you can just look at it
02:35 PM Loetmichel: to check
02:35 PM Loetmichel: it can display every cell voltage
02:36 PM pink_vampire: The base is some random maybe stainless, or other very hard none magnetic alloy, it was almost impassible to drill it with HSS drills, I had to use cobalt drills, and carbide, and the tapping with HSS tap took forever, very slow, about 1/10 or a turn each time.
02:36 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: On my parts list, just need to find another balance cable for it https://www.amazon.com/CellMeter-Digital-Capacity-Discharger-Backlight/dp/B073W4MDHC/
02:37 PM skunkworks: stainless work hardens..
02:37 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: hihi, seems to be the same model as i have, just different coloured plastic for the enclosure ;)
02:38 PM pink_vampire: skunkworks: I did it very slow, about 150 rpm. with 9/64" drill
02:38 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Yep, cheaper from china, but whateer
02:38 PM skunkworks: pcw_home: for a non axis (spindle) would you still use error previous target?
02:40 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Or let it scream when low... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DC3LH9C/
02:42 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Or get fancy... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07797N9BG/
02:49 PM Loetmichel: ah, btw: any aircraft savvy guys or gals here? i live near a big airport... just noticed again that some airliners toot like a fog horn when they throttle down for approach. anybody knows what causes that sound inside a jet engine?
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/23701/what-causes-descending-aircraft-to-make-a-noise-like-a-giant-blown-bottle
03:00 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: HAHA, could you imagine a ship horn strapped to the bottom of a jet?!
03:01 PM Loetmichel: i can
03:07 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: nope, thats probably not it. it really sounds like a giant fog horn.
03:07 PM Loetmichel: and the landing gear is NOT out.
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: does it sound like this or this ?
03:22 PM Loetmichel: i google for a while now. didnt find a video with that sound in it
03:30 PM pcw_home: skunkworks: for spindles it really doesn't matter
03:35 PM unterhaus_: it seems like everyone would know that round ports are a bad idea on an airplane, but I guess not
03:36 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: it sounds a bit like one of the engines has a bad (glide) bearing and the shaft is rattling around in the too big bearing at certain RPM. and its a LOT louder than normal engine howl. thats why i noticed it quite often. because the landing planes here come in so often that i dont even notice them unless i am at the phone and outside and the other end mentions that they can
03:36 PM Loetmichel: hear multiple jets crossing over while we are talking
03:36 PM unterhaus_: by "everyone" I mean everyone that has the opportunity to design one
03:37 PM unterhaus_: Loetmichel, interesting. There have been resonance problems with jet engines. F100-PW-229 being a bad one
03:37 PM SpeedEvil: From memory, jet engines make all sorts of wierd noises at low throttle settings
03:37 PM SpeedEvil: especially off axis
03:37 PM unterhaus_: they changed the engine control to skip the speeds that it would resonate at
03:38 PM Loetmichel: kind of the same sound a dremel with a grinding bit makes when you try to widen a hole just a bit wider than the grinding bit and it "catches" and starts to orbit in the hole, just LOUDER
03:39 PM unterhaus_: When engines start liberating parts, they will call it the "Loetmichael effect"
03:39 PM unterhaus_: the bearings in my dremel are going bad, it makes a weird sound
03:41 PM Loetmichel: thats why i mentioned it. i have a proxxon FBS240E with the same problem ;)
03:41 PM Loetmichel: only at certain RPM though, thats why i came to mind
03:42 PM Loetmichel: because the sound is similar
04:01 PM Deejay: gn8
04:02 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: resistor heatsink... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IVQY6GS
04:03 PM Loetmichel: that should probably do the trick ;)
04:03 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: "Pimp That Battery"
04:41 PM Loetmichel: unterhaus_ / CaptHindsight: THATS the sound, just a bit deeper (larger engines on a passenger jet) and probably even louder. https://youtu.be/H_ARSE8jEHQ?t=110
05:11 PM skunkworks: pcw_home: With this setup - a P of about .01 and no I works ok.
05:11 PM unterhaus_: now I'm curious about how much of the sound from a jet engine is the bleed valves.
05:11 PM skunkworks: Any amount of I causes overshoot
05:50 PM gregcnc: jets are ~6000ft coming over our town heading to ORD. I hear sometimes, mostly when it's humid.
05:50 PM gregcnc: https://www.southampton.ac.uk/engineering/research/projects/buzz_saw_noise_and_non_linear_acoustics.page
05:54 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: BIGFOOT???
06:16 PM JT-Cave: looks like Missouri is fixing to rebound as the covid cases are rising
06:19 PM Tom_L: bound to happen as more ppl expose themselves again
06:20 PM jymmmm: JT-Cave: stock up on toilet paper?
06:20 PM jymmmm: It's summer time, more people aare getting out
06:21 PM JT-Cave: can't figure out where to stack any more...
06:21 PM jymmmm: JT-Cave: workshop ceiling, extra insulation
06:22 PM JT-Cave: I have 15" of ichulation up there
06:24 PM * JT-Cave thinks before this is over with he will look like a hippy
07:12 PM Tom_L: same here
07:12 PM Tom_L: 90% chance by 2pm tomorrow
07:24 PM perry_j1987: g'evening guys
07:24 PM perry_j1987: i just finished plumbing in a simple flood coolant system on this mini lathe lol
07:28 PM SpeedEvil: 'take lathe, place in coolant bath'
07:29 PM perry_j1987: i just ripped a windwshield washer resivor out of this junker vehicle and plumbed it in with a 3d printed drain with barb fitting and nut i whipped up real quick
07:29 PM SpeedEvil: :)
07:30 PM perry_j1987: already has a screen on the drain and everything haha
08:23 PM Rab: W1N9Zr0, beep
08:24 PM W1N9Zr0: meep?
08:24 PM Rab: W1N9Zr0, look familiar? http://reboots.g-cipher.net/precisiontable.jpg
08:24 PM W1N9Zr0: very much
08:25 PM Rab: My jaw literally dropped when I saw your Hackcnc link. I guess I'm a few years late, here's current status: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/IMG_0918.JPG
08:26 PM W1N9Zr0: amazing haha
08:26 PM Rab: I got the camera, and most of the rest of the machine. I haven't found software for the camera though.
08:28 PM perry_j1987: hmm
08:28 PM perry_j1987: just tried first flood coolant cuts
08:28 PM perry_j1987: got some binding
08:32 PM skunkworks: in the coolant? thick stuff
08:35 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, i saw you mention something on your comp
08:36 PM Tom_L: are you trying to integrate gcode with it for the form now?
08:37 PM skunkworks: well - I would like to try other shapes other than circles and polygons/D - shapes'
08:38 PM Tom_L: you're somewhat limited with the shape of the cutter aren't you?
08:38 PM skunkworks: I was thinking cheap and dirty - I could make a gcode program and when the gcode is run - capture the radius into the polygoncomp as the motion happens.
08:39 PM skunkworks: then - use that info to do the spindle synced motion.
08:39 PM skunkworks: yes - there is only so much you can do with a spinning cutter/
08:46 PM W1N9Zr0: Rab: are you going to turn it into a router too?
09:01 PM perry_j1987: now that i've gotten my mini lathe all wet with this flood coolant im playing around with...
09:02 PM perry_j1987: do i need to wipe down the entire machine every night?
09:11 PM Tom_L: i tend to wipe my vise surfaces with vactra 2 and blow the mill out good after using it
09:13 PM roycroft: i would wipe it down
09:13 PM roycroft: how thoroughly depends on the type of coolant you're using
09:14 PM roycroft: i don't use flood or mist coolant on my machine
09:14 PM roycroft: s
09:14 PM roycroft: but i do wipe them down with vactra 2 as well
09:16 PM perry_j1987: what is vactra 2
09:16 PM perry_j1987: first time i've heard of it mentioned
09:17 PM Tom_L: it's a thicker mobile product used for machinery mostly
09:17 PM Tom_L: vactra 1-4 iirc
09:19 PM Tom_L: https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-businesses/industrial/lubricants/products/products/mobil-vactra-oil-no-2
09:20 PM Tom_L: https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-businesses/industrial/lubricants/product-series/mobil-vactra-oil-numbered-series
09:20 PM Tom_L: 2 is the most widely used
09:23 PM roycroft: vactra 2 is great for vertical surfaces, but not so sticky it gums things up
09:24 PM Rab: W1N9Zr0, that's the plan.
09:24 PM roycroft: on a lathe you may not need way oil as thick as vactra 2, but if you have a vertical mill it's very useful
09:24 PM roycroft: i just use it on my lathe and on my mill so i don't have to stock multiple products
09:26 PM Rab: I use #2 on my manual mill, I have great confidence in its ability to stay put. I don't see why it wouldn't be applicable to lathe ways.
09:27 PM jymmmm: Rab: Did you bury in in 8ft of concrete ?
09:27 PM roycroft: it's fine on lathe ways
09:27 PM Rab: jymmmm, bury what
09:28 PM roycroft: but #1 would be fine on most lathe ways too
09:28 PM roycroft: and #3 is probably too sticky for most horizontal ways
09:28 PM jymmmm: Rab: "I have great confidence in its ability to stay put" because it's burried in concrete =)
09:28 PM roycroft: #2 is the sweet spot way oil
09:29 PM Rab: jymmmm, oh, I meant the way oil. The mill came with isolating feet installed and tends to shake on heavy cuts, I think I'd rather switch the feet for concrete anchors.
09:30 PM jymmmm: Rab: I was teasing in the respect that it was such a piece of crap, you killed and burried it to never be seen again =)
09:31 PM Rab: jymmmm, my mill is awesome.
09:32 PM jymmmm: Rab: very cool =)
09:33 PM Tom_L: Rab, mount it in a bed of silicon shock absorbers
09:33 PM Rab: perry_j1987, what's in your coolant?
09:33 PM jymmmm: airbags,
09:33 PM Tom_L: i thought he said coolmist but i'm not sure
09:34 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: isn't that the cpu fan company?
09:35 PM Tom_L: https://koolmist.com/coolants
09:47 PM perry_j1987: i had a sample of kool mist 78
09:49 PM perry_j1987: thought it was going to make it so i didnt have to baby it with an acid brush and motor oil while turning heh
09:50 PM perry_j1987: but seems to make things "grabby"
09:52 PM Tom_L: i've always used a coffee can full of oil and a brush on the manual lathes
09:53 PM perry_j1987: this things suppose to be a robot so i dont have to do everything though ")
09:53 PM Tom_L: cnc we used the water soluble coolants
09:54 PM Tom_L: that rustlick i showed you
09:54 PM Tom_L: i'm sure it's similar to the kool mist stuff
09:55 PM perry_j1987: started going through and making sure the gibs are adjusted right on this little lathe
10:04 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.solidworld.si/etrgovina/cnc-deli-in-oprema/omega-edm/servo-driver-cmd180a can't seem to find any further info on this servo amp
10:12 PM Rab: This picture shows shorter flanges and a different PCB layout, so it must be a well established enough product to have a few variants in the wild: http://reparo.dk/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/CMD-180A1.jpg
10:15 PM CaptHindsight: 120Vac powered DC servo driver
10:16 PM Rab: Anything on the PCB?
10:16 PM CaptHindsight: just traces, it's pretty easy to follow
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/38023/SANKEN/2SC5071.html
10:17 PM CaptHindsight: 8 of these as output transistors
10:21 PM CaptHindsight: looks like analog IN and TG +- (tachometer)
10:25 PM roycroft: i'm using rustlick for coolant for my router table spindle
10:44 PM jymmmm: JT-Cave: JT-Shop You might want to signup for updates... https://www.reviews.org/internet-service/spacex-starlink-satellite-internet-review/
10:46 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: speeds are only up to 1gb/s
10:46 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: BEats what I have now by a long shot!!!
10:47 PM CaptHindsight: how many sq mi or km will each sat cover?
10:47 PM CaptHindsight: will it be fast over the country and bogged down over cities?
10:47 PM jymmmm: no idea, they pan on launching 42,000 sats
10:47 PM jymmmm: plan*
10:48 PM jymmmm: their target is rural areas
10:48 PM CaptHindsight: will they be blamed for people getting sick?
10:49 PM jymmmm: nope
10:49 PM CaptHindsight: will they crash into Jesus up there?
10:49 PM jymmmm: Juses is their homie
10:49 PM CaptHindsight: will they spy on me?
10:50 PM jymmmm: and home don't play that
10:50 PM jymmmm: sure
10:50 PM CaptHindsight: how will I know that my data is secure?
10:50 PM jymmmm: when you see it on google
10:50 PM jymmmm: and instagram
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: will I get a price break since it's in the clouds?
10:51 PM jymmmm: the price will be sky high
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: will it work during bad weather?
10:51 PM CaptHindsight: or when in my bunker?
10:52 PM jymmmm: of course, they already tested it in alaska (for real)
10:52 PM jymmmm: @ 600mb
10:53 PM CaptHindsight: if i use one of the upside down umbrella antennas, will i absorb everyone signal around me? like sunlight near a solar farm
10:53 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: or you can get this instead https://www.amazon.com/BlueCosmo-Iridium-Minute-Prepaid-Global/dp/B07GC6R8M4/
10:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71m9RLsWbBL._AC_SL1200_.jpg
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: what if I want to wait for the service by Amazon?
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: they will offer free shipping
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: for only $100/year
10:58 PM CaptHindsight: how much does the free shipping cost from starlink?
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-town-rejects-solar-panels-amid-fears-they-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun-a6771526.html