#linuxcnc Logs
Jun 16 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:20 AM veegee: Hmmm I have this plasma cutter: https://www.everlastwelders.ca/powerplasma-82i-1.php
02:26 AM veegee: I wonder if it can be rewired internally for 3 phase. I don't want to run 6 gauge wire for 240V 50A
02:26 AM veegee: I have a spare 45kVA 600V-240V transformer I can put next to it, but I'd rather not do that
02:26 AM veegee: If it's an inverter, then should be as simple as switching out the input rectifier to a 3 phase full bridge rectifier and hopefully get away with 10 gauge wire
02:28 AM veegee: I don't understand. Is copper so cheap there that they like running thick wires all over the place?
02:28 AM veegee: If it were me, I'd 600V 3 phase all the things
02:29 AM veegee: If they're running 110V "for safety", just go all the way and do 48VDC
02:29 AM pink_vampire: the outlet is 240V 50A
02:29 AM veegee: for your oven right?
02:29 AM pink_vampire: yes,
02:30 AM veegee: yeah that's literally /every/ house in Canada.
02:30 AM pink_vampire: that was my only option to connect the spindle
02:30 AM veegee: I just really really really don't want to run #6 wire
02:31 AM veegee: It's like 4x the cost of #10 AC90
02:31 AM veegee: I just bought 150m of 10/3 AC90
02:31 AM veegee: I mean I'll parallel two lengths of it if I have to, but not sure if that's against electrical code
02:32 AM veegee: I'll just treat it as a temporary line I guess
02:32 AM pink_vampire: I did a box with brakes that connect to that oven outlet, and from that box I'm using normal #14 wires to the spindle. (only 7A)
02:32 AM veegee: Well you have a house, so different situation. What you're doing is fine
02:33 AM veegee: I have an industrial unit with 3 phase utility power. I don't want to unbalance the phases that much by putting a huge 80A plasma cutter that draws 50A at 240V on 2 of the legs of the 208Y120
02:33 AM pink_vampire: it is not my house, I'm renting, if it was my house I was running the cable from the electrical panel to the spindle
02:34 AM veegee: you have a full lathe setup in a rented residence?
02:34 AM veegee: brave
02:34 AM veegee: It is a lathe right?
02:34 AM pink_vampire: mill, lathe..
02:34 AM veegee: I'm good with a mill. But know nothing about lathes. I need a lathe 101
02:34 AM veegee: I've watched all the this old tony videos but still
02:35 AM veegee: Stuff like the tool posts and so on
02:35 AM pink_vampire: it is a cute lathe
02:35 AM veegee: Will you teach me the basics? :D
02:35 AM pink_vampire: maximat7 with the milling head, and I also have the G0704
02:35 AM pink_vampire: veegee: sure!
02:35 AM veegee: yay! <3
02:36 AM veegee: First have to get this wiring sorted out, then hook up my new Acer E lathe 1440V
02:36 AM veegee: then stare at it until I'm comfortable looking at it
02:36 AM pink_vampire: 1440V O_O
02:36 AM veegee: 14x40 yes
02:36 AM pink_vampire: 1440 Volt?
02:36 AM veegee: no no, 600V 3ø
02:37 AM veegee: 1440V is the model of the lathe
02:37 AM pink_vampire: I thought you need to take a wire right from the pole
02:37 AM veegee: it's 14" swing over bed, 40" between centers
02:37 AM pink_vampire: LOL
02:37 AM veegee: No it's standard 600V
02:37 AM pink_vampire: mine I'm not sure
02:38 AM pink_vampire: 7" X 18"? maybe?
02:38 AM veegee: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/southwire-armoured-electrical-cable-copper-electrical-wire-gauge-6-3-ac90-6-3-150m/1000714144 jesus christ look at the price of that roll
02:39 AM veegee: They better be able to cut some short lengths so I can put a junction box and connect it to there
02:39 AM pink_vampire: $1,752.00 / roll
02:39 AM pink_vampire: for 150M
02:39 AM veegee: I hope they have that on the spools there where they cut custom lengths
02:39 AM pink_vampire: but it limited to 600V
02:39 AM veegee: they don't offer that for all the types of wire
02:40 AM veegee: 600V is the standard in Canada
02:40 AM pink_vampire: you don't need to have some safety margin?
02:40 AM veegee: It does, that's 600V nominal
02:40 AM veegee: 600VAC normal
02:40 AM veegee: of course peak breakdown voltage of the insulation is on the order of kilovolts
02:41 AM veegee: those ratings are all nominal so you can match them up with your service and circuit and so on
02:41 AM pink_vampire: I'm using 600V for the 220V for the spindle
02:41 AM veegee: 600V is safely and legally used here for 600VAC mains
02:41 AM veegee: that's what it's intended for
02:42 AM veegee: which means it handles 600V•sqrt(2)V peak easily with a huge margin of course
02:42 AM pink_vampire: I think here in we use aluminum to run from the pole to the house
02:42 AM veegee: I can test it with an insulation tester later
02:45 AM veegee: you americanos so silly
02:45 AM pink_vampire: "Aluminum provides a better conductivity to weight ratio than copper, and therefore is also used for wiring power grids, including overhead power transmission lines and local power distribution lines, as well as for power wiring of some airplanes."
02:45 AM pink_vampire: veegee: ^
02:49 AM veegee: Oh the silly comment wasn't about aluminimum
02:50 AM pink_vampire: do you use wire nuts?
03:13 AM pink_vampire: veegee: ^
03:20 AM Deejay: moin
04:54 AM JT-Cave: morning
04:54 AM XXCoder: hey
04:54 AM XXCoder: finally went to work after week of missing work
04:54 AM XXCoder: it was "fun"
04:55 AM XXCoder: im still little bit dizzy but hardly level of last week lol
04:58 AM XXCoder: just glad I managed to get note from er lol
04:58 AM XXCoder: otherwise no work till july 13th ow
04:58 AM JT-Cave: wow
04:59 AM XXCoder: its been first time i was unable to work more than 2 days so I forgot to ask for note lol
05:09 AM JT-Cave: looks like it's going to be a hot weekend here in the low 90's
05:10 AM XXCoder: hottest of week is 71f here
05:10 AM XXCoder: near constant cloud
05:10 AM XXCoder: only little rain, spring is ending here
05:10 AM XXCoder: 20 years ago we would get clouds sometimes all over summer, and rain maybe 4 ot 5 times
05:10 AM XXCoder: nowdays nah
05:27 AM pink_vampire: hi XXCoder
05:28 AM XXCoder: yo
05:28 AM pink_vampire: happy to hear that you are got back to work
05:30 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:30 AM XXCoder: while I dont really love work, I really hate skipping work
05:47 AM pink_vampire: I need to find a nice set of tool holders for my lathe with 10mm shank or smaller
05:52 AM pink_vampire: what do you think about this set? https://www.ebay.com/itm/330365698067
05:54 AM XXCoder: i dont know enough about lathes to answer unfortunately
06:02 AM pink_vampire: hi HighInBC
06:20 AM JT-Cave: looks like a decent set for the price... not Kennametal quality but the photo looks ok
06:20 AM pink_vampire: do you know about Kennametal set?
06:20 AM pink_vampire: JT-Cave: ^
06:20 AM JT-Cave: yea many of mine are Kennametal
06:21 AM JT-Cave: some Iscar, some Sandvik and I think a Seco for threading
06:22 AM pink_vampire: I want something with 10mm shank or smaller like 1/4"
06:22 AM JT-Cave: my turret uses 1/2" shank so I had to machine down some of the tools to fit
06:24 AM pink_vampire: I'm trying to find something like a general set as a starting point.
06:25 AM pink_vampire: now I'm using HSS and I hate to grind them in the house,
06:25 AM XXCoder: due to air smell etc?
06:25 AM pink_vampire: this is way I want to move to inserts
06:25 AM XXCoder: you should builod air filter system, buy 2 house filters, put it in tringle pattern with fan as third side
06:25 AM pink_vampire: smell, dust, time, noise.
06:25 AM XXCoder: seal top and bottom, tape seal stuff
06:26 AM XXCoder: it becomes very effective air cleaner.
06:26 AM pink_vampire: that is a very good idea
06:26 AM XXCoder: as bonus you could even coat filters with fiber filter thats 2 inches thicker. filters very effectively without slowing air down very much at all.
06:27 AM XXCoder: think best airflow is suck air though filters to blow clean air
06:27 AM XXCoder: but could be wrong there.
06:27 AM pink_vampire: but it will not help with the time and the dust all over
06:27 AM XXCoder: it gets rid of unhealthy fine dust
06:27 AM JT-Cave: I have a 20" box fan with a filter on the front in each building to filter the airborn dust out
06:27 AM XXCoder: large dust no but fine dust is worse.
06:28 AM XXCoder: should get rid of most of smell by those fine dust too
06:28 AM XXCoder: though not something I can definitely say, wwhat with no smell ability and all.
06:28 AM pink_vampire: I will try making something like that
06:29 AM pink_vampire: but to move to inserts will solve it for good
06:29 AM XXCoder: yeah. those also get rid of superfine cutting oil solution in air too,.
06:29 AM XXCoder: good for your lungs.
06:29 AM JT-Cave: that shars set would be an ok place to start
06:29 AM XXCoder: or coolant whatever
06:30 AM JT-Cave: I assume your lathe is pretty small?
06:30 AM pink_vampire: maximat7
06:31 AM pink_vampire: and for AA holders I can't go larger then 7mm shank thickness (so I'm thinking maybe to get 1/4" or something abit larger and mill it down)
06:32 AM JT-Cave: https://www.shoppok.com/joplin/a,41,116137,Emco-Maximat-7-Lathe-and-mill--Masterpiece-Restoration----6500--SE-Kansas-.htm
06:32 AM JT-Cave: like that one?
06:32 AM pink_vampire: but what inserts are cost effective? what parting tool to get?
06:32 AM pink_vampire: yes!
06:33 AM JT-Cave: parting tools need a very rigid Y axis and spindle
06:33 AM JT-Cave: the inserts depend on the material your turning
06:34 AM pink_vampire: mostly aluminum, brass and sometime steel
06:34 AM pink_vampire: right now I'm using a hacksaw
06:34 AM JT-Cave: aluminum needs dead sharp inserts while steel needs the blunt ones
06:35 AM pink_vampire: there is a holder that can be use for sharp or blunt inserts?
06:36 AM JT-Cave: some styles you can find inserts for either some you can't
06:36 AM JT-Cave: http://toolinghouse.com/carbideinsertsforaluminum.aspx
06:36 AM JT-Cave: for example
06:37 AM JT-Cave: http://toolinghouse.com/carbideinserts.aspx
06:38 AM JT-Cave: for example CC inserts are the same and TC inserts are the same
06:38 AM pink_vampire: I see that those inserts are super common and super cheap https://www.ebay.com/itm/153955913782
06:39 AM XXCoder: lol basically free. ones at work is $10 each. not 10 a box. each insert lol
06:39 AM XXCoder: and its cheaper ones at work
06:39 AM JT-Cave: thoses look like they are for steel
06:39 AM Tom_L: morning
06:40 AM XXCoder: yo
06:40 AM JT-Cave: http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
06:41 AM pink_vampire: CC = 80 deg diamond + 7 deg rake, the TC is triangle + 7 deg rake
06:44 AM pink_vampire: so it is cheap because the tolerance is M
06:45 AM pink_vampire: so if I want a holder for CCMT060204-HM what do I need to look for?
06:45 AM JT-Cave: the same shape and IC diameter
06:46 AM XXCoder: hmm larger tol on tooling means you need to be more carefyl if you replace tool in middle of job
06:46 AM XXCoder: other than that no real cons I think
06:46 AM pink_vampire: it is a manual lathe...
06:48 AM XXCoder: yeah
06:48 AM XXCoder: another reason it matters less
06:48 AM pink_vampire: I can't find the side here CCMT060204-HM http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm
06:49 AM pink_vampire: the "0" after the CCMT is the size?
06:51 AM JT-Cave: that's a strange one maybe 06 is the size dunno
06:51 AM pink_vampire: ok I see how it work, I need to look by the letter C
06:51 AM pink_vampire: and then 06 = 6mm
06:52 AM pink_vampire: so the holder is CC 6mm?
06:53 AM JT-Cave: could be, but I'm not sure about it
06:54 AM pink_vampire: in the Shars set I see that some tools need "CARBIDE SHIM LT16R-3.0"
07:09 AM JT-Cave: I've never used a shim on an insert
07:10 AM pink_vampire: it is go under the insert
08:37 AM Loetmichel: *giggle* Any educated guess what i am designing there? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17859&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
08:41 AM JavaBean: its a "rotational axis" for a cnc machine
08:41 AM pink_vampire: trash bin with iris?
08:44 AM Loetmichel: wrong. Next try. Hint: that base is 160mm in diameter and the whole thing will have 6 steppers when finished ;)
08:45 AM pink_vampire: hexpod?
08:45 AM Loetmichel: close but no cigar
08:46 AM * JavaBean grumbles, decides not to cheat
08:48 AM Loetmichel: lets say if i print it in orange i can put "kuka" on it and everyone will belive it ;)
09:11 AM elmo40_: veegee: you are in Canada? Yes, we get screwed on electrical wire pricing...
10:22 AM JT-Cave: an automated chicken egg sorter
10:50 AM veegee: elmo40_ yes, Toronto
10:50 AM veegee: it's not horrible
10:50 AM veegee: Actually I really love that we have 600V 3ø
12:03 PM jymmmm: $68 2KW VFD free shipping... https://aliexpress.com/item/4000300917666.html
12:05 PM jymmmm: Hurry, BUY NOW, only 24,456,345,345 remaining
12:06 PM Loetmichel: wtf?
12:06 PM Loetmichel: is there even enough sand to make that many?
12:06 PM Loetmichel: :-)
12:07 PM jymmmm: IDK, maybeeeeeeeeee
12:08 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Welllll, I found a 16.8 15A PS, still looking for a CC/CV module
12:17 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Do you have any idea what the CV specs here are saying??? Standard Charge method 0.5C CC charge to 4.2V, 4.2V CV charge to 0.02C cut-off
12:20 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: CC of 30A (0.5C) till voltage is at 4.20, then CV of 4.20V till draw is =< 1.2A (0.02C) ???????
12:27 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: charge with constant voltgage to 4.2V, current limited to 1/2 the capacitty of your cells /h. Charge finished when pack draws less than capacity*0.02 (/h)
12:28 PM Loetmichel: so yes. exactly what you said if your capacity is 60Ah
12:28 PM Loetmichel: pack capacity
12:29 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: 60AH, yes
12:29 PM Loetmichel: 4.2V per cell of course
12:31 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Ok so first stage is 4.2V just limit to 30A max draw, second stage is still 4.2V whatever curent it wants, and when it reaches 1.2A or less, it's "full" ?
12:31 PM Loetmichel: yes
12:32 PM jymmmm: ok cool, ty
12:32 PM Loetmichel: i wouldnt even bother with the constant current thing
12:32 PM Loetmichel: you PSU can only supply 15A
12:33 PM jymmmm: Well, that's by choice, I haven't bought anything yet, just found a mean well PS that cna offer 16.8V at 15A or 30A, etc.
12:33 PM Loetmichel: just put a 0.08 Ohms 50W resistor in series with your battery. and the PSU
12:34 PM jymmmm: a shunt?
12:34 PM Loetmichel: but check if your PSU can hold 4.2V per cell to 1% or better.
12:34 PM Loetmichel: current limiting resistor, so your PSU will not shut off
12:34 PM Loetmichel: for overcurrent
12:35 PM Loetmichel: empty battery is 3V
12:35 PM Loetmichel: so 1.2V drop, 15A: 0.08 Ohms
12:36 PM Loetmichel: and at 1.2A "shut off" current you have less than 0.1V drop
12:36 PM Loetmichel: fits.
12:36 PM Loetmichel: perfectly
12:36 PM Loetmichel: done is your CC/CV charger ;)
12:36 PM jymmmm: LRS-150-15 https://www.meanwell.com/productPdf.aspx?i=420
12:37 PM jymmmm: +/- 1% regulation
12:38 PM Loetmichel: sounds well within bounds
12:39 PM Loetmichel: also the resitor will take care of protecting your battery if the regulation is a bit off
12:39 PM jymmmm: Technically this is 4S 16.8V if that matters
12:40 PM Loetmichel: it will drop an additional <0.1V at "shutoff current" so it will not charge to absolute max
12:40 PM jymmmm: That datasheet says the voltage is adjustable to 16.8V
12:47 PM Loetmichel: yes, its usually adjustable even further than whats on the datasheet
12:47 PM Loetmichel: the 12V meanwells usually can do 15.5
12:47 PM Loetmichel: on the upper limit of the pot
12:49 PM Loetmichel: you can do the math for the current limiting resistor yourself: Resistance is Voltage drop (1.2V per cell) divided by current you want to limit to
12:49 PM Loetmichel: @ jymmmm
12:51 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Ok, I can't find 0.08ohm@50W, but found 0.15ohm@50W (two in parallel gives 0.075ohm 1%)
12:51 PM Loetmichel: so if you have a 4s: 4*1.2V and 10A(the 150W meanwell) then its 0.48 Ohms 50W (10A times 4,8V drop)
12:51 PM Loetmichel: yeah, i thought one cell
12:52 PM Loetmichel: for a 4s you need more resistance
12:52 PM Loetmichel: and less current ;)
12:53 PM Loetmichel: point is that an empty cell is 3V
12:53 PM jymmmm: so 0.5ohm
12:53 PM jymmmm: right.
12:53 PM Loetmichel: yes, that would work
12:53 PM Loetmichel: for a 10A supply on a 4s lithium battery
12:53 PM jymmmm: 50W enough though? 16.8@10A= 168W ??
12:53 PM Loetmichel: be aware taht that thing gets HOT at full current
12:54 PM Loetmichel: yeah, it only dissipates 4,8V times 10A though
12:54 PM Loetmichel: so 50W is (barely) enough
12:54 PM Loetmichel: the rest of the power is going into the battery
12:54 PM jymmmm: I don't mind 100W jsut to CYA
12:55 PM Loetmichel: if you buy two 50W 1 ohm that would be not AS hot as one 50W 0,5 ohm
12:55 PM Loetmichel: so go that route if you want
12:55 PM Loetmichel: and put them in parallel
12:55 PM Loetmichel: should be cheaper than one 100W
12:55 PM jymmmm: oh yeah, and easier to cool /disapate the heat too
12:56 PM jymmmm: (more surface area)
12:56 PM Loetmichel: yes
12:56 PM Loetmichel: you can also use some MIG wire to make a 0.5Ohms resistor
12:57 PM jymmmm: I actually have some 18ga to 40ga nichrome wire here too
12:58 PM jymmmm: but I'll probably just buy the darn things =)
12:59 PM Loetmichel: about 2m of 0.7mm mig wire (NO flux core) should get you there
12:59 PM Loetmichel: and should be able to dissipate a LOT more than 50W
12:59 PM Loetmichel: if you make an "air coil" of it
01:00 PM Loetmichel: but yes, a bought reistor is better
01:00 PM * Loetmichel tends to "want to do it NOW" so i often resorted to those hacks with "things at hand" like mig wire
01:01 PM jymmmm: 2x 1ohm @ 100W... https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Mounted-Aluminum-Wirewound-Resistors/dp/B008IDAD76/
01:01 PM Loetmichel: Thats a bit overdoing it
01:01 PM Loetmichel: but if you think thats neccessary: go for it
01:01 PM jymmmm: It's cheaper than the 50W with shipping
01:02 PM Loetmichel: hihi, ok then
01:02 PM Loetmichel: should keep it coler
01:02 PM Loetmichel: cooler
01:03 PM jymmmm: Hmmm 5% okey??? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KJYSSSX/
01:04 PM Loetmichel: doesnt maater much
01:04 PM Loetmichel: matter
01:04 PM Loetmichel: its just a current limiter
01:05 PM Loetmichel: those meanwells can churn out quite a bit more than they are rated at
01:06 PM jymmmm: Yeah, I just figured spend the extra for QUALITY since meanwell has a good reputation AND ca give 16.8V (such an odd voltage to find)
01:06 PM Loetmichel: be aware that those green resistors are only rated 100W when screwed to a pretty sizeable heatsink
01:06 PM Loetmichel: !
01:07 PM jymmmm: I was thinkng 1/2" thick (12mm)
01:07 PM jymmmm: heatsink
01:07 PM Loetmichel: thickness isnt a concern for heatsinks
01:07 PM Loetmichel: surface area is
01:07 PM jymmmm: I mean fin depth
01:07 PM Loetmichel: ah!
01:08 PM Loetmichel: ready made heatsinks usually have a kelvin per watt rating
01:08 PM jymmmm: I'll have to see what I have here (maybe an old CPU heatsink) else get one off ebay/ali
01:08 PM Loetmichel: you dont want the resistors to get hotter than lets say 120°C
01:09 PM jymmmm: hey lawernce
01:09 PM Loetmichel: so if you have 20°C ambient and want to dissipate 50W you need a heatsink that can do 2k/W or better
01:09 PM Loetmichel: better= lower
01:09 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: So no making tea when charging is what your saying?
01:10 PM Loetmichel: you can absolutely do that
01:10 PM Loetmichel: there should be a max temp rating for your resistors.
01:10 PM Loetmichel: only a small cup though
01:12 PM jymmmm: Ok, so fll reservoir with water, 1/8" copper tubing attached to resistor, place cup with tea bag at side of charger and wait?
01:12 PM Loetmichel: and i imagine you dont want to wait 22h to heat your cup of water to boiling point ;)
01:12 PM Loetmichel: yeah, would work
01:13 PM Loetmichel: IF you have the patience to wait 22h
01:13 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: The goal is 5 to 6 hours till fully charged, maybe a cup once finished charging
01:13 PM Loetmichel: thats how long it takes to heat up 0.2 liter of water (one cup) to 100°C from 20°C
01:13 PM jymmmm: oh, heh
01:13 PM Loetmichel: on a 50W power source
01:13 PM jymmmm: BTU's FTW =)
01:13 PM Loetmichel: indeed
01:14 PM jymmmm: Hmmm, heat pipes??? lol
01:14 PM Loetmichel: more like joules in this case though
01:15 PM Loetmichel: one kg of water needs 49xx joules to get one °C warmer
01:15 PM Loetmichel: 1 jpole is equal to one watt second
01:16 PM Loetmichel: so if you have 50W and 0.2 liter water (one standard cup) you need 22HOURS to get it to temp
01:16 PM Loetmichel: if i didnt have an error in my math
01:16 PM jymmmm: Ok, maybe if I charge via solar =)
01:16 PM jymmmm: I only have a 15W foldable solar panel right now
01:17 PM Loetmichel: THATS why i hated electronics in school while still being my hobby... MATH! ;()
01:17 PM Loetmichel: loads of it ;)
01:34 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: haha, but that's physics, not ohms law =)
01:37 PM Loetmichel: same thing
01:37 PM Loetmichel: basically
01:37 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: it is about 4.2kJ/(kg K)
01:38 PM Loetmichel: rmu|w: is it? ups. remembered wrong then
01:38 PM Loetmichel: i was vertain its 4.9 something
01:38 PM Loetmichel: certain
01:38 PM rmu|w: 4.184 at 20°, varies a little bit with temperature
01:39 PM Loetmichel: ah, 4190, not 4910 ;) found my error
01:39 PM Loetmichel: <- getting old and forgetful ;9
01:39 PM Loetmichel: that will still not shorten the 22 hours much
01:39 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: What is your name?
01:40 PM Loetmichel: Michael, why?
01:40 PM jymmmm: This looks intersting... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999896390.html
01:40 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Just seeing if you remembered your name is all =)
01:40 PM Loetmichel: ah, because forgetful. no, not THAT bad
01:40 PM jymmmm: Just chekcing =)
01:41 PM rmu|w: no, not much
01:41 PM jymmmm: Hmmm, it has CC setting
01:42 PM * Loetmichel shudders... that machine translation on aliexpress... :-(
01:42 PM jymmmm: to DE or EN ?
01:44 PM jymmmm: If that boost module actually worked as intended, I could charge 12VDC@14A from the car too
01:44 PM Loetmichel: to DE
01:44 PM jymmmm: ah ok
01:45 PM Loetmichel: i wouldnt do that though
01:45 PM Loetmichel: car alternators are known to have a REALLY bad efficiency
01:46 PM jymmmm: why not (just curious, besides the driving for 6 hours)?
01:46 PM Loetmichel: they need about 10HP for every KW they have to put out
01:46 PM Loetmichel: you will burn loads of fuel just for the charging
01:47 PM jymmmm: Ah, yeah, car charging would be a nice option, but still not driving 6 hours.
01:47 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: something is fishy with your calculation... 50W are 180kJ per hour. those 0,2 kg water need 67kJ to get from 20° to boiling.
01:48 PM jymmmm: rmu|w: So I get tea in 30 minutes instead? lol
01:48 PM rmu|w: yes...
01:49 PM rmu|w: 25min
01:49 PM jymmmm: woohoo!!!!
01:49 PM rmu|w: depending on ambient pressure and insulation ;)
01:50 PM jymmmm: rmu|w: I'm at 2500ft elevation, so a little better =)
01:51 PM rmu|w: not that much
01:52 PM rmu|w: boiling point will be lower, so cooking takes longer
01:52 PM jymmmm: If I have enough physical room, I should totally make a mini charger coffee pot for the hellva it. I think I'd have to jsut recirculate the water till it got up to temp (check valve), then a facuet to pour into cup
01:53 PM Loetmichel: rmu|w: yes, seems i did a divide to much
01:53 PM Loetmichel: good catch
01:54 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: 2kW kettle takes less than 10 minutes for 2,5l, so.... 22h didn't feel right ;)
01:55 PM Loetmichel: asa i said: i HATE math
01:56 PM Loetmichel: but yeah, right
01:56 PM rmu|w: jymmmm: boiling point is 1K lower for every 1000ft (approx)
01:56 PM Loetmichel: dont forget though that you lose heat to ambient
01:56 PM Loetmichel: my cup warmers have 18W and BARELY can hold a cup of tea at 70°X
01:56 PM Loetmichel: 70°C
01:57 PM rmu|w: evaporating water takes away a LOT of heat
01:58 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13817&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
01:58 PM rmu|w: (i think 5 or 6 times the amount you need to get from 0 to 100)
01:58 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10078&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
01:59 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Yeah, I have one of those too, while if feels hot to the touch, barely keeps the coffee warm at all
01:59 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: get an insulated cup. stainless vacuum cup or something
02:00 PM jymmmm: rmu|w: vacuum cup won't work
02:00 PM Loetmichel: it MAY be perfect though: make an alu plate the size of a cup, mount the resistor to the bottom. should barely be enough to boil it once and then hold it at 80°
02:00 PM jymmmm: shoving the power resister IN the cup might though
02:00 PM Loetmichel: because the power dissipated will go down the fuller the batteries are
02:00 PM rmu|w: jymmmm: i mean to keep contents warm
02:00 PM jymmmm: rmu|w: me too =)
02:00 PM rmu|w: why wouldn't it work
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: well duh a vacuum cup is for holding a vacuum, not coffee
02:01 PM rmu|w: obviously
02:01 PM CaptHindsight: you would not put a vacuum in a coffee cup
02:01 PM jymmmm: rmu|w: imersion heater... https://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Electric-Immersion-Heater-Warmer/dp/B01M0TB9PI/
02:02 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: vaccuum cup?
02:02 PM rmu|w: https://www.amazon.com/vacuum-insulated-cups/s?k=vacuum+insulated+cups
02:02 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: french vacuum press?
02:02 PM Loetmichel: ah
02:03 PM jymmmm: I just meant a SS vacuum cup placed over a fire would never boil the water inside
02:03 PM Loetmichel: rmu|w: cant find one stainless cup with vacuum insualtion in my usual size
02:03 PM Loetmichel: also it needs to last a couple hours
02:03 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: 44ounce big enough?
02:03 PM rmu|w: jymmmm: if you get the stainless steel red hot on the outside, the water will boil on the inside, trust me ;)
02:03 PM Loetmichel: i doubt taht'll work without external heat
02:04 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13802&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
02:04 PM Loetmichel: the cup on the left is a standard 0.2 liter cup
02:04 PM jymmmm: rmu|w: lol
02:04 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: you would need one with a lid
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: water in a SS cup sealed would boil if you pulled a vacuum ...
02:04 PM Loetmichel: sounds like double the size i have now
02:04 PM CaptHindsight: you wouldn't even need a fire
02:05 PM Loetmichel: that "cup" isnt called a dewar flask by any chance?
02:05 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Here ya go, 64oz... https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trail-64-Ounce-Double-Wall-Vacuum-Sealed-Stainless-Steel-Water-Bottle/131683847
02:05 PM rmu|w: CaptHindsight: if you did this in an insulated cup you would probably freeze the water befor it boils off
02:05 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: CUP, not bottle!
02:06 PM Loetmichel: rmu|w: not only probably
02:06 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: It IS my coffee "cup"
02:06 PM Loetmichel: it would freeze pretty fast
02:06 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: ... well, the 44ox one
02:06 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: dewar is usually made of glass and mirorr-coated on the inside
02:06 PM CaptHindsight: if I put a handle on a bottle, is it a cup?
02:07 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: 7-11 sells coffee refills for $0.99 using a 44oz bottle
02:07 PM Loetmichel: the funny thing is: that black cup in the last picture was once part of a set with a matching 4 "cup" tea pot and 4 candle heater under it
02:08 PM Loetmichel: it holds 5/8L of beverage
02:08 PM Loetmichel: the CUP
02:08 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: and when you buy 6 refills, you get the 7th one free
02:08 PM Loetmichel: was actually not that easy to lift the (ceramic) tea pot when full
02:08 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: 5/8l ? are you sure it is not 5/8 cups or 5/8 oz or some other "imperial" unit?
02:09 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: does your 7-11 run out of coffee by 2-3pm?
02:09 PM Loetmichel: rmu|w_ 0.625l
02:09 PM Loetmichel: thats 5/8 in my book
02:09 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: I'd hit a couple of 7-11's across a 200 mile range each day, so nope =)
02:09 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: ;)
02:10 PM Loetmichel: just because i am a german doesent mean i cant do fractions ;)
02:11 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: When I was fixing ATM's, I'd drive 5000 miles/month (company car), so drank a lot of coffee =)
02:11 PM rmu|w: Loetmichel: but i thought this "fraction-weakness" is the reason for "mass bier"? or was it the other way round? *musing*
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: did any ATM's ever use BSD or Linux?
02:14 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: They ALL used Windows7 sadly
02:15 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: all x86 as well?
02:15 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: If it says "DIEBOLD" on the ATM, it's Windows7 and X86
02:16 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: IIRC they used Win NT until recently
02:17 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: 2018 all Win7 that I ever saw
02:17 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: met with Diebold in 1998, proposed a Linux voting machine with coreboot, never saw someone run so fast
02:17 PM Loetmichel: "recently" aka 2010 or so
02:18 PM Loetmichel: last time i saw one from the inside
02:18 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Yeah, a pretty sad company now
02:18 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I doubt much has changed =)
02:18 PM rmu|w: those things used to run OS/2
02:19 PM jymmmm: The newest ATM's (black) are really plastic POS
02:20 PM jymmmm: The biggest issue is the cash dispensers in them
02:20 PM CaptHindsight: about 20 years ago there was a coreboot conference in Hamburg, just outside the hotel was a frozen ATM with the BIOS message, Error no keyboard, press F1 to continue
02:20 PM jymmmm: the plastic is so thin and cheap, that the unit jams when they fill them up
02:21 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: lol
02:21 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: The OS is hidden even from that unless I placed it into diag mode
02:22 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: https://www.coreboot.org/Fun_Stuff#ATM
02:22 PM jymmmm: and I have to use a special dongle to even get into that
02:23 PM jymmmm: But if you ever want to kill a ATM machine hit the keypad hard in the corners of it. It'll go into security lockdown mode INSTANTLY =)
02:24 PM jymmmm: Not even I can get it out of that mode
02:24 PM jymmmm: could*
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: sorry this one https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Atm_os2warp-640x452.jpg
02:25 PM jymmmm: the keypad literally needs to get replaced, then go thru a shitton of security procudures and protocols on the phone, and entering in crypto challenge keys to activate it, such a PITA.
02:28 PM CaptHindsight: weren't the most successful attacks using card skimmers?
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: or the fake ATM
02:34 PM perry_j1987: g'afternoon guys
02:34 PM perry_j1987: hows it going
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: hhmm SpeedPAK from China shipped yesterday, will it really take 1 month to arrive?
03:10 PM XXCoder: speedpak is bit faster. more like 2 weeks?
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: used to be 1-2 weeks
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: first order from China since the pandemic
03:17 PM XXCoder: its faster now. my recent orders arrived in a week or 2
03:18 PM XXCoder: during my plague time order one of em still havent arrived
03:20 PM XXCoder: lol. buy batteries "would you like to add protection plan?"
03:25 PM perry_j1987: i still havnt received any of the orders from china i put in a while ago
03:25 PM perry_j1987: they refunded all of it to me
03:28 PM XXCoder: yeah some of orders I had was refunded. one disappeared seemly for good, while 2 i evenually got 2 weeks after refunds
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: the lockdown in China was pretty complete in some areas
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: if you couldn't bank through your phone you were stuck
03:32 PM perry_j1987: so i just got my first carbide insert threading tool
03:32 PM perry_j1987: tried setting it up in fusion 360 and running some gcode
03:32 PM perry_j1987: it seems to have made the threads wider than they should be
03:32 PM perry_j1987: thereby cutting off the peaks
04:07 PM Deejay: gn8
04:18 PM perry_j1987: back
04:45 PM perry_j1987: fusion 360 updated post processor for linuxcnc throwing error
04:45 PM perry_j1987: P portion missing with G76
04:47 PM Tom_itx: pitch
04:48 PM Tom_itx: distance per revolution
04:48 PM Tom_itx: 20tpi = .050 iirc
04:53 PM perry_j1987: wait nm
04:53 PM perry_j1987: i accidentaly used wrong postprocessor haha
05:00 PM Hermitude: it happens perry
05:07 PM perry_j1987: lol
05:07 PM perry_j1987: always happens to me lol
05:36 PM perry_j1987: so i bought an er32 collet for my mini lathe
05:36 PM perry_j1987: awesome but im not sure i can deal with the work moving as the collet closes
05:36 PM perry_j1987: i miss the 3 jaw chuck already
05:51 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by weber.freenode.net
06:12 PM perry_j1987: is it normal for you guys to have a bur pushed up when parting stainless
06:19 PM andypugh: Hmm, should I accept the invitation to be a guest on a Hackaday hack-chat?
06:24 PM jymmmm: andypugh: subject/topic?
06:24 PM andypugh: LinuxCNC
06:25 PM jymmmm: I wonder if they will mention arduino?
06:25 PM andypugh: Probably.
06:26 PM Tom_itx: good opportunity to hilite linuxcnc
06:26 PM jymmmm: That's pretty much the only thing I can think of, you feel up to it andypugh?
06:27 PM jymmmm: 113 victims in here now, wonder what it'll bump up to afterwards?
06:27 PM Tom_itx: 113
06:27 PM andypugh: It’s text only, to IRC-like. I am more comfortable with that than making noises with my mouth, like some kind of animal.
06:27 PM Tom_itx: heh
06:27 PM Tom_itx: me too
06:27 PM jymmmm: ah ok
06:28 PM jymmmm: I thought it was on camera
06:28 PM jymmmm: andypugh: what to wear, get your hair and nails done, etc...
06:28 PM Tom_itx: yeah get plenty of dirt n grime under the nails...
06:28 PM jymmmm: exactly
06:28 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
06:29 PM jymmmm: OH, in that case........... skunkworks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
06:29 PM Tom_L: really not that hard to do
06:29 PM jymmmm: showing off skunkworks' big blue might be fun =)
06:29 PM jymmmm: especially the tool chnager =)
06:30 PM jymmmm: andypugh: That might be a bad thing, showing off the BIG toys lcnc operates on, as well as the smaller stuff, might give a better perspective why lcnc doesn't do arduino =)
06:31 PM andypugh: I am sure I could post links.
06:31 PM jymmmm: links, pics, videos, etc
06:32 PM jymmmm: I remember a few years back there was an angle plate that was 10ft tall with someone standing on it
06:32 PM andypugh: And the Wichita Cincinattis make Skunkworks’s machine look small
06:33 PM jymmmm: heh, but the tools changer on his is very cool to look at running =)
06:33 PM jymmmm: plus the pallets i think he got running too
06:33 PM Tom_L: the fact arduino (grbl) doesn't support drill cycles that i know of is a point to be made
06:33 PM Tom_L: maybe a couple now, i'm not sure
06:34 PM jymmmm: is classic ladder still in use?
06:34 PM Tom_L: or more than 3 axis that i'm aware of either
06:34 PM Tom_L: yes
06:34 PM Tom_L: by some
06:35 PM jymmmm: a soft plc isn't a bad thing to point out
06:35 PM jymmmm: IDK what that arduino group did to/with lcnc, I never looked
06:36 PM jymmmm: Is sherline still using lcnc?
06:37 PM Tom_L: did they ever?
06:37 PM jymmmm: I think I'm going to order a coule of these and what they can do https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999896390.html
06:38 PM Tom_L: mine was flashcut cnc way way back when
06:38 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: Yeah, but that back in the BDI days that I'm aware of
06:38 PM jymmmm: was^
06:40 PM andypugh: Looks like Sherline now sell “MASSO CNC” as an “upgrade” to LinuxCNC.
06:40 PM jymmmm: Ok if I take two DMM's in series, can I read 20Amps? (10A per dmm)?
06:41 PM andypugh: Yes. But you could just as easily replace one of the DMMs by a resistor
06:41 PM jymmmm: andypugh: I don't have any low value power resistors
06:41 PM andypugh: You do, in your DMMs
06:42 PM jymmmm: both dmm's only have a 10A fuse in them
06:42 PM jymmmm: (this is just temporay till I get a clamp on meter)
06:42 PM andypugh: (though it probably makes sense to measure voltage across a resistor rather than run a DMM in series with a resistor)
06:43 PM andypugh: Actually, series wouldn’t work, you would need the DMMs in parallel.
06:44 PM andypugh: In series you get all the current through both DMMs, so would still blow the fuse.
06:44 PM jymmmm: if in parrallel, would each ddm being reading HALF the actual value?
06:44 PM andypugh: Yes
06:44 PM jymmmm: ok, that's fine.
06:45 PM andypugh: Do you know how to check the fuse in your dmm?
06:45 PM jymmmm: no, wait, I mean if I'm running 20A thru 2 dmm's in parallel, would each dmm read 5A or 10A ?
06:45 PM jymmmm: plug the lead into the amp socket on continuity
06:46 PM Tom_L: hoping they are equally balanced they would each read 10A
06:46 PM andypugh: I only found out that you could test the fuses that way a couple of dats ago
06:47 PM andypugh: And if they are not equally balanced, the current is still the sum of the two readings.
06:47 PM jymmmm: andypugh: I like the level test, just flip the level 180 degrees and if the bubble is at the same location, it's a good level =)
06:48 PM jymmmm: andypugh: I think I actually read it in the manual for my Fluke 77 eons ago
06:49 PM jymmmm: I've had my Fluke 77 for 30 years and only replaced the 9v battery twice, lol
06:51 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, same here
06:51 PM jymmmm: nice =)
06:52 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: I really didn't want to buy it (too expensive at the time), until the Fluke rep demo'ed it by throwing it across the room, picked it up and started using it =)
06:53 PM jymmmm: Ya just cna't beat gorilla proof =)
06:53 PM Tom_L: mine has the rubber case too
06:54 PM jymmmm: I do need to get some new leads for it though, they've been through hell. Need to find some nice piercing probes
06:56 PM jymmmm: what does the "J" mean? 100W 0.5ΩJ
06:56 PM jymmmm: power resistor
06:58 PM jymmmm: oh, tolerance J=5%, F=1%, G=2%, K=10%
07:53 PM veegee: I want to install a new 3 phase (120/208) circuit breaker. Any suggestions on a brand or model?
07:54 PM roycroft: the brand that is made for your breaker panel?
07:55 PM veegee: oh sorry I meant breaker panel
07:59 PM roycroft: i would ask your local home improvement center or electrical supplier
08:00 PM roycroft: there are many good brands
08:00 PM roycroft: i would choose one that is commonly found so that you can easily get new breakers for it in the future
08:01 PM roycroft: i used to like square d a lot, and still do, but most of the suppliers around here are not carrying their stuff any more
08:01 PM Tom_L: for 3phase your local home improvement probably won't fit the bill
08:01 PM roycroft: or, at least not featuring it
08:01 PM Tom_L: i'd go to a local electrical supply
08:01 PM roycroft: mine does
08:01 PM roycroft: but yes, an electrical supplier is more likely to have 3 phase gear
08:02 PM roycroft: graybar or platt or some outfit like that
08:02 PM Rab: roycroft, the Square D Homeline is pretty junky, but the more expensive QO series is better.
08:03 PM Rab: HD carries QO equipment here.
08:08 PM veegee: Yeah need to go to a local electrical supplier
08:08 PM veegee: Siemens PL series look good
08:17 PM _unreal_: FREAKING hell chrome crashed AGAIN...
08:21 PM perry_j1987: so guys, windshield washer reservoir and pump for cheap little flood coolant setup?
08:21 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: A WIRELESS coffee cup warmer... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YDP7565
08:22 PM FinboySlick: perry_j1987: Not sure. Doesn't sound to me like they're meant for constant duty.
08:23 PM perry_j1987: yet they last 30+ years at same time
08:26 PM FinboySlick: If the flow is good enough for you, I guess it's worth a shot. Easy to replace too.
08:27 PM Tom_L: i've done rather well with mist coolant on my mill so far
08:28 PM perry_j1987: im looking for something for this mini lathe to try
08:30 PM jymmmm: perry_j1987: to make square tubes?
08:31 PM perry_j1987: square tubes?
08:32 PM jymmmm: perry_j1987: Evgrave scrollwork on to pipe that can be threaded together to make a walking cane/stick that have various compatrments for stuff =)
08:32 PM jymmmm: perry_j1987: square tubes was a joke
08:39 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, don't tell that to skunkworks.
08:39 PM Tom_L: he might just try it
08:40 PM perry_j1987: lol
08:40 PM jymmmm: Tom_L: I'd love to see something like that, maybe out of aluminum or SS
08:40 PM perry_j1987: man its hard to move around the shop when you tweaked your lower back
08:41 PM _unreal_: working at my "" job "" tweaks my brain every day
08:42 PM _unreal_: Cant wait till I get some more BIG wins in the stock market. I'm going to quit
08:42 PM _unreal_: IF I make $120K by the end of the summer I'm out of there
08:43 PM _unreal_: $120k from the stock market
08:43 PM _unreal_: I'm about to hit 25k and I started in april
08:46 PM perry_j1987: what did you start with
08:47 PM perry_j1987: 24,500? :)
08:47 PM _unreal_: $100
08:47 PM _unreal_: I've only used $1600 of my own
08:49 PM _unreal_: so linuxcnc what would be the smart method using a 7i96 to enable the mains power supply for the motors?
08:50 PM _unreal_: I have a relay setup and everything. I'm just trying to figure out how to control it with the 7i96
08:51 PM Tom_L: wire it to estop?
08:51 PM * jymmmm mumbles safety relay
09:02 PM perry_j1987: looking forward to not having to stand here with acid brush and oil while doing lathe ops lol
09:05 PM Tom_L: it's good fer ya
09:12 PM perry_j1987: but i could be getting distracted with other things
09:12 PM Tom_L: is it manual or cnc?
09:13 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mist-Coolant-Lubrication-Spray-System-For-8mm-Air-Pipe-CNC-Lathe-Milling-Drill/184083216990?hash=item2adc36fa5e:g:XoMAAOSwrvtd9pbb:sc:USPSFirstClass!67213!US!-1
09:13 PM Tom_L: i put one of those on my mill
09:13 PM Tom_L: does ok
09:13 PM perry_j1987: its cnc
09:14 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kool-Mist-1-Gallon-77-Concentrated-Coolant-for-Kool-Mist-Units/322032310178?hash=item4afa9f17a2:g:PgsAAOSw9WBeeUbi
09:14 PM perry_j1987: i have one mounted on my 6040 but i havnt used it yet
09:14 PM Tom_L: kinda surprised to see that on ebay
09:14 PM skunkworks: My machine is bigger in person..
09:14 PM perry_j1987: kool mist sent me 4 bottles when i asked them a question they asked if i wanted a sample lol
09:14 PM Tom_L: i had to add an extra o ring to mine or the tip would vibrate loose
09:15 PM Tom_L: i'm using something else
09:15 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Rustlick1.jpg
09:16 PM Tom_L: i can get it locally
09:17 PM Tom_L: you _could_ get their sprayer
09:17 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kool-Mist-100N-205-1-Gallon-Single-Mist-Unit-w-Stainless-Steel-Tank/222046991657?_trkparms=aid%3D1110012%26algo%3DSPLICE.SOIPOST%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200420083544%26meid%3D0b63fa13462a4262b2bcc68beab469ed%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D322032310178%26itm%3D222046991657%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedSellersOtherItemsV2&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
09:21 PM elmo40_: Tom_L: what kind of rambled on link is that? :-P
09:21 PM elmo40_: isn't there a bot in here to repost long links?
09:38 PM veegee: Sweet! Amazon surprisingly has good prices on 3 phase breakers
09:39 PM veegee: local electrical suppliers have shitty websites with no catalog or inventory listings and I don't want to waste my time waiting for their opening hours to call them and ask
09:41 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight
09:42 PM * flyback looks at veegee
09:42 PM veegee: It's 2020. If they don't have a working website by now, they don't get my business
09:43 PM roycroft: seems to me it would be faster to ring them up in the morning and go pick up the stuff you need tomorrow than to orderfrom amazon and wait for it to be delivered
09:43 PM veegee: same/next day delivery
09:43 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Any relation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRelGsyvbgA
09:43 PM veegee: and price, I don't think they can match the prices I'm seeing on amazon
09:44 PM roycroft: and to fault a company who are not in the business of doing online sales for not having a slick fancy website is ignorant at best
09:44 PM veegee: doesn't need to be slick or fancy
09:44 PM jymmmm: veegee: wouldn't it be funny is if yuou ordered from amazon, and was shipped by uour local supplier =)
09:44 PM veegee: I checked, it isn't
09:44 PM roycroft: does their website have their company name, address, and phone number?
09:44 PM roycroft: that's all that most companies need
09:45 PM roycroft: maybe a contact link
09:45 PM jymmmm: I HATE when companies only have a "line card". Bugs the fuck out of me and I just won't do business with them.
09:45 PM roycroft: most of the industrial supply houses around here have no web presense at all other than a "yellow pages" listing
09:46 PM veegee: yeah stupid not to
09:46 PM roycroft: why
09:46 PM roycroft: ?
09:46 PM roycroft: they all do good business
09:46 PM roycroft: people know how to find them
09:46 PM jymmmm: yellow pages? Ha, a phonebook as as antique as VHS
09:46 PM veegee: ^
09:47 PM roycroft: note that i put that in quotes
09:47 PM roycroft: i don't know about the physical yellow pages
09:47 PM roycroft: i don't get it any more
09:47 PM roycroft: but there are online directory service like the yellow pages
09:48 PM jymmmm: Sure, I get that, but line cards went out when databases and instant inventory checks came into play
09:48 PM roycroft: i'll give you a clue
09:48 PM roycroft: most building contractors don't carry laptops on the job with them
09:48 PM roycroft: they carry phones
09:49 PM roycroft: and when they need something the call their local suppliers
09:49 PM roycroft: and ask for it
09:49 PM roycroft: and go pick it up
09:49 PM jymmmm: Then you call them and they'll sell you a pallet, and you only need 2
09:49 PM roycroft: they don't order online
09:49 PM roycroft: they don't have time for that
09:49 PM roycroft: they don't care about that
09:49 PM roycroft: it's great that there are places that have good online ordering systems
09:49 PM roycroft: mcmaster-carr are one of my favorite vendors in the universe, for example
09:49 PM roycroft: but not everyone wants or needs to order stuff that way
09:50 PM veegee: yeah and just to buy one or two, you need to set up an account and all that crap
09:50 PM roycroft: if you don't want to buy from a company using traditional methods, don't buy from them
09:50 PM veegee: and wait for the receptionist to write down your information
09:50 PM veegee: that's what I'm doing :)
09:50 PM roycroft: but to disparage them because they don't have an online ordering system that fits your needs is bullshit
09:50 PM roycroft: utter bullshit
09:50 PM roycroft: it's small-minded idiotic thinking
09:51 PM jymmmm: I was SO lucky when the local HVAC supply house just let me will call stuff and special order stuff,, no account needed
09:51 PM veegee: not small minded at all
09:51 PM roycroft: it totally is
09:51 PM roycroft: i don't know your political leanings, and i don't care to know
09:52 PM roycroft: but that is classic "republican" or "conservative" thinking
09:52 PM roycroft: "i believe in freedom, as long as everyone does things my way, because my way is the only correct way"
09:52 PM jymmmm: roycroft: That's 21st Century thinking, not last century
09:52 PM veegee: you're projecting like crazy
09:52 PM veegee: I didn't say it's the only way
09:52 PM veegee: your words, not mine
09:52 PM roycroft: if 21st century thinking means total conformity, then i reject the 21st century
09:53 PM veegee: did you have a bad day?
09:53 PM roycroft: i had an average day, thanks
09:53 PM jymmmm: If you want to stay in business and profitable, it's a good way of thinking and planning ahead
09:53 PM veegee: lol how did you take what I said to mean "total conformity"
09:53 PM roycroft: there are lots of ways to stay in business and be profitable
09:54 PM veegee: yeah, having a website is a no brainer
09:54 PM roycroft: a website is an expense
09:54 PM veegee: barely
09:54 PM veegee: like next to nothing
09:54 PM roycroft: i guess you know nothing about websites
09:54 PM jymmmm: WAY cheaper than shipping 2000 page cataglogs (grainger/McMAster)
09:54 PM veegee: ... I own a software engineering company
09:55 PM roycroft: i deal with customers every day who think a website should cost nothing and requires zero maintenance
09:55 PM veegee: I know more about it than you will in multiple lifetimes
09:55 PM roycroft: and then they whine
09:55 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: NO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Z7PWAeqPQ
09:55 PM roycroft: right, because i have owned and manged isps for close to 30 years
09:55 PM roycroft: but i know nothing about hosting websites and what it really costs to do one properly
09:55 PM veegee: great, then you know how important the internet is for business
09:56 PM roycroft: i know how important it can be
09:56 PM roycroft: but it's not by any means essential for many, if not most businesses
09:56 PM veegee: I guess it depends on what you define as a business. But you're right, a local farmer has little to gain
09:56 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Hey, how did you know I was wearing a yellow shirt???
09:57 PM veegee: but a product supply store?
09:57 PM veegee: that's like the poster example for having a website
09:57 PM veegee: it really does cost next to nothing
09:57 PM roycroft: there's a giant locally-owned home improvement store here
09:57 PM roycroft: almost right next door to me
09:57 PM roycroft: they do tens of millions of dollars in business every year
09:57 PM veegee: "giant" and "locally owned"
09:58 PM roycroft: they outsell probably every big box national chain store in town combined
09:58 PM veegee: 10 million in year in revenue is nothing
09:58 PM roycroft: the store is physically larger than any other home improvement store in town
09:58 PM roycroft: for a single store it's huge
09:58 PM roycroft: anyway
09:58 PM roycroft: they have a website
09:58 PM roycroft: it lists their ours and location
09:58 PM veegee: 10 million in revenue to compete with a big box store? doesn't sound right
09:58 PM elmo40_: i'd like $10M/year...
09:58 PM roycroft: and publishes their weekly ad
09:59 PM roycroft: which they print and distribute in the newspaper and in mailers
09:59 PM roycroft: they're very successful
09:59 PM roycroft: they do not have a line card on their website
09:59 PM roycroft: they have no ordering system or inventory system on their website
09:59 PM roycroft: they don't need to
09:59 PM roycroft: they do just fine without it
09:59 PM roycroft: you own a sofware company
10:00 PM roycroft: so you think that the entire universe needs to do everything with software
10:00 PM roycroft: that's the small-minded thinking i'm talking about
10:00 PM veegee: the projection is strong with this one...
10:00 PM roycroft: you see what you do as a solution for every problem
10:00 PM roycroft: and it's not
10:00 PM roycroft: it's a solution for a lot of people
10:00 PM roycroft: but not everyone
10:00 PM roycroft: i'm just sick of people trying to cram their agenda down everyone's throat
10:01 PM roycroft: totally sick of it
10:01 PM veegee: yup, had a bad day lol
10:01 PM roycroft: and that's all i'm seeing here
10:01 PM roycroft: it was an average day
10:01 PM veegee: clearly not
10:01 PM roycroft: i don't have to have a bad day to be annoyed with small-minded thinking
10:03 PM roycroft: but i'll stop expressing my annoyance now - i'm sure it is irritating others here, which was not my intent
10:03 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: I think I'm gonna order one just to play with https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32999896390.html
10:04 PM veegee: I think it's more just you completely missing the point
10:04 PM roycroft: please stop addressing me before i say something i shouldn't
10:04 PM roycroft: just drop it
10:04 PM roycroft: as i am doing
10:04 PM veegee: no?
10:04 PM roycroft: thank you
10:04 PM veegee: say whatever you want grandpa, no one's stopping you :)
10:05 PM veegee: if you need help learning how to use a computer, I can help. It'll open up a whole world of new things you never knew existed outside of your small town
10:05 PM veegee: brought to you by the power of the internet
10:15 PM veegee: roycroft ok ok come back, I love you, please don't be mad at me D:
10:16 PM veegee: I won't be able to go to sleep tonight if you're mad at me
10:17 PM jymmmm: HAHA, read the first line... https://www.amazon.com/expanded-Inverter-220-240V-Converter-Technology/dp/B087THSLWN
10:18 PM veegee: Just for you I'll go out of my way and visit my local electrical supply store tomorrow. I'll even drive all over town to all of them without a website
10:22 PM veegee: Alright so the circuit breaker panels I'm looking at are identified by their "spaces" and "circuits", like 12 space, 24 circuit. I don't understand how they got 24 "circuits" from 12 spaces
10:22 PM veegee: how do they define a "circuit"?
10:22 PM veegee: I thought a circuit breaker is designed to break a single circuit
10:23 PM jymmmm: there are dual brekers too
10:23 PM veegee: Yeah I saw those, but the vast majority of the time, I see single people single slot breakers
10:24 PM veegee: but why is the panel rated at circuits = 2 x number_of_spaces? What is their definition of a "circuit"?
10:24 PM jymmmm: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-15-Amp-20-Amp-Single-Pole-Tandem-Circuit-Breaker-HOMT1520CP/100141152
10:25 PM veegee: At the same time, there's no technical reason that can't be 3 or 4 breakers squeezed into one slot
10:25 PM jymmmm: IIRC 220V breakers have two poles
10:25 PM jymmmm: I'd like to see this QUAD breaker of yours
10:25 PM veegee: I'm not saying it exists, I'm saying it's theoretically possible. But that is inherently a property of the breaker, not the panel
10:26 PM veegee: so my question is, why is the panel rated at circuits = exactly 2 x number of spaces
10:26 PM jymmmm: so you have 12 slots, and can install 12 dual breaks and have 24 circuits
10:29 PM veegee: Ok so when I come out with a design of a triple breaker module that fits in 1 slot, they all have to redesignate their panels as 12 slots/36 circuits?
10:33 PM jymmmm: or YOU have an exclusive on the market
10:38 PM veegee: OH right I forgot that manufacturers like to restrict compatibility of breakers and panels to their own brand
10:39 PM veegee: And yeah you're right: https://www.menards.com/main/buying-guides/electrical-buying-guides/load-centers-buying-guide/c-19756.htm
10:39 PM pink_vampire: Hole diameter: approx. 4.8mm , Please allow 1-5mm errors due to manual measurement
10:41 PM veegee: disclaimer win right there
10:51 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: think this will work for 5W ? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32795120518.html
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: jymmmm: what is SW?
11:41 PM _unreal_: so this comming weekend I'm going to try and get the machine moving