#linuxcnc Logs

Jun 09 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

03:23 AM Deejay: moin
04:08 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: not Rpi. An I5 server" with linux and repetier server on it for all4 printers
04:28 AM Loetmichel: *AAAAAAH* Coworker took 2 days of changing parts and trying things to get a new PC pass the EMI check. no avail, fails at <100khz... i looked at the sytem: everything ok... then i looked at the measurement chamber: the Grod simulation box had Earth connected to ground via 50uH/50Ohm... flipped the switch to "hard ground"... everything within spec. Sometimes you search on the wrong device :(
05:08 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:17 AM XXCoder: hey
05:21 AM JT-Cave: I've not found anymore tobacco hornworms in the tomatoes
05:22 AM XXCoder: nice
05:23 AM XXCoder: guess those wasnt horny enough to make more to bother you
05:23 AM JT-Cave: raining now so can't look today, so far the only thing that is fluorescence is some string I used lol
05:24 AM JT-Cave: https://www.nightsea.com/galleries/caterpillar-fluorescence/
05:25 AM JT-Cave: they should be easy to spot
05:25 AM XXCoder: glowy indeed
05:29 AM JT-Cave: got started on the spoke lathe yesterday, trying to get the clamp part into cad so I can add a pneumatic cylinder to that.
05:32 AM XXCoder: cool :)
05:32 AM XXCoder: i got really dizzy so had to return home bit earlier
05:33 AM XXCoder: cant do that too often :( im not very happy at all
05:35 AM JT-Cave: I'm anemic so if I don't eat enough red meat my RBC gets too low and I start having balance problems
05:37 AM XXCoder: odd. not likely in my case though
05:37 AM XXCoder: 3 weeks now, of dizzyness.
05:37 AM XXCoder: record is 9 months
06:15 AM Tom_L: morning
06:17 AM XXCoder: hey
06:23 AM JT-Cave: yo
06:37 AM Tom_L: sunny & high of 88
06:40 AM JT-Cave: rainy here, tomorrow is sunny with a high of 75°F :)
06:40 AM XXCoder: late spring rains here
06:55 AM sensille: enleth: does this thing look reasonable? https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/drehmaschine-kaerger-mit-leit-und-zugspindel/1424017435-249-19886
08:01 AM enleth: sensille: old-school but might be a good machine
08:02 AM sensille: must be 80+ years old, i probably don't dare to buy it
08:02 AM enleth: most of it is not repainted, this is *good*
08:02 AM enleth: nah, looks like 60s
08:02 AM enleth: or 50s
08:03 AM enleth: but not pre-war
08:03 AM sensille: that company stopped producing around 1943
08:03 AM enleth: oh, interesting
08:03 AM enleth: a rather modern design, then
08:05 AM enleth: tiny chuck, but DIN 800 spindle nose adapters are readily available
08:06 AM enleth: good motor size
08:06 AM enleth: needs a little bit of EvapoRust, but it's only surface rust, not pitting
08:08 AM enleth: the only thing that needs to be replaced right away is the ancient toolpost
08:09 AM enleth: other than that, this machine should move metal just fine and looks like it still has a lot of life left in it
08:10 AM sensille: nice you can tell that from the pictures :)
08:10 AM sensille: not sure if i can move it into my basement, though
08:10 AM sensille: i'm tempted to make a substantially lower offer and see what happens
10:34 AM Rab: sensille, on a machine that old, watch out for plain or sleeved spindle bearings. Even if the spindle is in good shape, that may not be what you want.
12:56 PM Loetmichel: Rab: on a lathe sleeve bearings CAN be beneficial to ball/roller bearings
12:57 PM Loetmichel: they take hits a LOT better
01:03 PM SpamSpamEggsSpam is now known as CaptHindsight
01:32 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: does Alec know about the RTAI issue? He hasn't touched it for a while and he said it was running solid here last i heard.
01:39 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Yes, he is aware: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI/issues/13
02:10 PM Rab: "I wish you that after every 100th stop the exhaust pipe falls off your motorcycle."
02:10 PM Rab: Hmm, I've owned and ridden motorcycles that were vastly less reliable.
02:14 PM CaptHindsight: describes most cars I had in the 70's
02:16 PM Rab: andypugh, and anyone else, I ordered an inexpensive eBay lot of keyseat cutters which were advertised as having 1/2" shanks. But upon arrival, they all have a strange shank I've never seen before: tapered, approximately the same angle as a morse taper, and with an angled notch. About like this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SBoAAOSwcLxYI1Oh/s-l1600.jpg
02:16 PM Rab: Does anybody recognize this shank?
02:17 PM * jymmmm read that as shark... Da dum.... Daa Dummm....
02:17 PM Rab: Here's another example: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0k0AAOSw9tJacfl~/s-l1600.jpg
02:19 PM Rab: I wonder if it's some horizontal milling thing. I never contacted the seller; they were really pretty cheap. But I wonder what to do with these things.
02:22 PM andypugh: A useful search term is “whistle notch” but I am not finding any tepered ones.
02:23 PM Rab: There are centers drilled at both ends, so I thought about turning a straight shank. I don't know if they're HSS or what; they might have to be ground.
02:26 PM andypugh: Is it actually morse taper?
02:29 PM andypugh: I guess you could make an adaptor, but unless you expect to use a lot of them just machining to cyclindrical is probaly the way to go. I understand that it is possible to machine HSS with carbide or CBN tooling.
02:29 PM Rab: Well, with some quick caliper measurements...one shank tapers .535 to .505 over .800 in.
02:31 PM Rab: Morse taper is .050 per 1.0 inches, which isn't too far off.
02:33 PM CaptHindsight: so likely Chinese Morse equivalent :)
02:33 PM Rab: I should've mentioned, they also all have a .140 round key slot.
02:34 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, these are old and seemingly western in origin.
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: Rab: from near me
02:37 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, possibly.
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SBoAAOSwcLxYI1Oh/s-l1600.jpg
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: if you have part numbers I can ask them
02:38 PM Rab: Now that I know what to look for, I see tons of them all over eBay.
02:43 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, unfortunately mine don't seem to be RB. The one in that picture looks like #71529, 3/4 x 1/8.
02:46 PM Rab: Most are marked Union, one is marked Midwest.
02:54 PM Rab: A HSS drill went right into the shank, so I guess turning is the answer. Holding them might be tricky.
03:02 PM andypugh: Rab: Not on this page, but the page itself is interesting: http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: I see that your questions about RTAI brings out the selfish responses
03:03 PM andypugh: Yes, I was thinking much the same. No offers to help figure out the problem, you note.
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: yes, "I only use preempt so just release that"
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: "your years of work do not matter to me, next"
03:11 PM veegee: Hmm, still contemplating getting this lathe: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/city-of-toronto/metal-lathe-13x40-with-dro/1505135056
03:12 PM veegee: Includes DRO, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, steady rest, mounting round plate
03:12 PM veegee: the foot thing is a brake, also has power feed
03:14 PM veegee: A new similar lathe costs $5,000 USD: https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1340gt/
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: was just going to mention that
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: Running on 600V (575)
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: so you'll need a transformer as well
03:17 PM pcw_home: andypugh: does wheezy/RTAI work with your tests?
03:17 PM Deejay: gn8
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: https://aceronline.net/acergroup/laths.htm love this: The images above do NOT represent the true sizes of the machines relative to each other.
03:19 PM andypugh: pcw_home: Runtests on the buildbot doesn’t crash, so I assume that that version of RTAI is OK.
03:20 PM andypugh: But that’s an interesting point, hinitng that the issue isn’t directly with anything that LinuxCNC is doing.
03:22 PM pcw_home: That's why I wondered if the Preempt-RT test coverage might catch 99%plus of the problems
03:24 PM pcw_home: My opinion would be release with the note about of RTAI exit bugs and hope that eventually they get figured out
03:25 PM andypugh: The problem is that the buildbot makes the installer debs, and part of the process is running runtests. And then that crashes the buildbot.
03:26 PM pcw_home: are the runtests check-pointed so they could resume after a crash?
03:27 PM andypugh: CaptHindsight: Alec was just visibly upset on the mailing list. And justifiably so, I think.
03:27 PM veegee: CaptHindsight I have 600V 3 phase
03:27 PM veegee: power is not a problem
03:27 PM andypugh: That’s a question for Seb, but not as far as I know.
03:27 PM Rab: andypugh, nice taper resource, thanks.
03:27 PM veegee: I just want a nice solid lathe for a good price
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: one more straw around here
03:31 PM CaptHindsight: andypugh: probably didn't help that I mentioned to him that have met some that made the comments
03:54 PM veegee: What's the standard in the USA for 3 phase industrial power?
03:54 PM veegee: For us in Canada, it's 600V
03:54 PM veegee: and a transformer in each unit to get 240V and 120V
03:56 PM jdh: 480
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: small units say Under 10k sq ft 120/208 for new installs
03:58 PM CaptHindsight: 480 on request
03:59 PM CaptHindsight: 480 and 600 for new installs are on request for larger structures
04:00 PM CaptHindsight: you can order a 600 or 480 service for a small building...
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: but unless you are building your the owners building rentals won't want to pay the extra to convert 480/600 to any 120/208 internally
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: -your
04:05 PM veegee: really? only 208Y120 for small industrial units?
04:05 PM veegee: That's pathetic. Even a 1,000 sq•ft industrial unit here gets the same 600V 3ø
04:05 PM veegee: minimum
04:06 PM veegee: Buildings with multiple industrial units have a dedicated electrical room that has like 12kV or more coming in
04:12 PM veegee: I used to want to convert all my motors to 240V so I can use them with cheap VFDs
04:12 PM veegee: but damn that's a lot of current
04:12 PM veegee: I figured might as well get a good 600V VFD or build my own. 1,200V IGBTs aren't that expensive
04:12 PM skunkworks: the encoder seems to count..
04:12 PM veegee: and 600V gives you a lot of flexibility. Transformers are cheap compared to thick copper wire
04:12 PM veegee: all my high power motors are running on 600V and the rest of the tools get 120V.
04:12 PM veegee: 120V is stupid too. Let's just make everything 240V and be done with it
04:12 PM andypugh: Europe UK is either 230V single phase or 400V three phase. Don’t see 600V here.
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: I was just looking at spaces over the winter...
04:12 PM veegee: ah you too eh
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: some were only 120/240 2-pole, not even 3 phase
04:12 PM veegee: :P I absolutely love my new unit
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: I worked in buildings here with 4KV service entrances
04:15 PM CaptHindsight: really hurts when you touch a hot :)
04:15 PM veegee: we have at least 12kV service entrances
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: 12Kv is on the pole
04:16 PM veegee: I think our highschool had a 24kV?
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, they bring in a fused main and have the transformer in the building
04:16 PM veegee: oh so there you have it, high burst power whenever you want
04:16 PM veegee: no need to mess with this weird ass 208 nonsense
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: we usually place a transformer pad outside
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: the power co drop the transformer and hooks up the primary side to your supplied secondary wires
04:17 PM veegee: I bought a 48 kVA 600V - 240V 3ø transformer for $200 CAD
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: sorry, hooks up the primaries and then hooks your supplied wires to the secondaries
04:18 PM veegee: yeah those voltages are too high for DIY
04:18 PM veegee: 600V is nice in that all your electrical test equipment is rated for 600V cat 4, like fluke multimeters, etc.
04:18 PM veegee: and it gives you a lot of power if you need it
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: that would be >$1k USD here
04:19 PM veegee: I bought it used
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: plus installation
04:19 PM veegee: yeah they're expensive new anywhere
04:19 PM veegee: but they're so common because every single industrial unit has at least one
04:20 PM veegee: even the pizza restaurant below our office has 600V 3ø coming in
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/766-Industrial-Dr-Cary-IL/16964611/
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: 200A service
04:21 PM veegee: Damn, dawg
04:21 PM veegee: I'm in Toronto and paying less per sq ft in Canadian dollars
04:22 PM veegee: $8/sq•ft/year
04:22 PM veegee: but that's for the 3,300 sq•ft unit
04:24 PM CaptHindsight: $8/sq ft USD around here gets you a pile of rubble with a tin roof or tarp covering
04:25 PM CaptHindsight: $12 -16 gets you new construction with no radioactive waste underneath
04:25 PM veegee: andypugh looks like all the shitty little 3rd world countries really love low voltage and 50Hz big transformers
04:25 PM veegee: CaptHindsight yeah it's a shame the USA government is so corrupt with bribery that the land is polluted like that
04:26 PM veegee: our industrial unit has goose nests in the parking lot and cute little kitty cats
04:26 PM veegee: lots of wildlife, very clean land
04:26 PM skunkworks: well - the rain hit..
04:26 PM CaptHindsight: we also have the geese
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: but the info in the listings are so poor that you have to go see what service they actually have installed
04:27 PM skunkworks: who had hurricane in wi for apocalypse bingo?
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: just had cats and dogs here minutes ago
04:35 PM Tom_L: andypugh, would it be helpful if i ran your test on my wheezy pc?
04:35 PM andypugh: Tom_L: It wouldn’t hurt, and should be fairly easy to do.
04:35 PM veegee: What are these fuses called? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Cooper-Bussmann-30-Amp-600-Volt-Dual-Element-Class-RK5-Fuse-FRS-R-30/100139175
04:35 PM veegee: The size format, that is
04:35 PM veegee: all my disconnect switches use them
04:35 PM Tom_L: i'll run a copy over to it after bit and give it a go
04:36 PM veegee: I can't find any information on what the physical dimensions designation is
04:36 PM Tom_L: we're still talking about the load unload test right?
04:36 PM andypugh: Yes
04:37 PM Tom_L: iirc i had to variants of the test
04:38 PM Tom_L: one commented out 'realtime start'
04:38 PM Tom_L: i will go with the original test
04:42 PM andypugh: Which one is that?
04:43 PM sync: CaptHindsight: why would the development time of somebody matter to me if the product isn't even relevant for my usecase?
04:44 PM andypugh: Tom_L: Use this one: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/7hgtP9P2WM/
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: sync: why are you relevant to me? Who do you think that you are to approach ME with your questions?
04:45 PM andypugh: Tom_L: Except with a path to your actual modules
04:45 PM sync: because you seem to care CaptHindsight
04:46 PM CaptHindsight: sync: why would I care about YOU?
04:47 PM CaptHindsight: you must be mistaken
04:48 PM Tom_L: andypugh, do i need to run an environment script prior?
04:48 PM andypugh: No
04:49 PM Tom_L: i keep getting command not found
04:49 PM andypugh: That test does not involve LinuxCNC at all
04:49 PM Tom_L: in the same directory i : ./andytest.sh
04:49 PM andypugh: You will need to run it with sudo
04:49 PM Tom_L: i did
04:49 PM Tom_L: going back to the shop..
04:49 PM andypugh: Make it executable?
04:49 PM Tom_L: that may be it..
04:50 PM sync: you don't have to, but that's exactly my point CaptHindsight
04:51 PM CaptHindsight: sync: nobody is saying that YOU have to, sorry you were raised by wolves
04:52 PM Tom_shop: halcmd: hal_init() failed: -22
04:52 PM Tom_shop: NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
04:52 PM Tom_shop: RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (No such file or directory)
04:52 PM Tom_shop: ERROR: rtapi init failed
04:52 PM Tom_shop: HALCMD: Release Mutex failed!
04:52 PM Tom_shop: RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (No such file or directory)
04:52 PM Tom_shop: HAL: ERROR: could not initialize RTAPI
04:53 PM Tom_shop: Linux wheezy 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-4linuxcnc i686 GNU/Linux
04:53 PM Tom_shop: ?
04:53 PM andypugh: Huh?
04:53 PM andypugh: Which script are you running?
04:54 PM andypugh: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/7hgtP9P2WM/
04:55 PM Tom_shop: loading.. takes forever for ff to load out here
04:56 PM Tom_shop: can you pm it to me?
04:56 PM Tom_shop: ok i got it
04:56 PM Tom_shop: no i was running another testt
05:00 PM Tom_shop: andypugh, what rtai name would i change it to for wheezy?
05:01 PM Tom_shop: i see it i think
05:01 PM andypugh: Whatever you have as /usr/realtime…
05:01 PM Tom_shop: yeah
05:03 PM sync: CaptHindsight: wat
05:04 PM Tom_shop: ok it's running
05:04 PM Tom_shop: i'll let it run and come back out and check on it after bit
05:19 PM veegee: Ok I'm going to be buying a lathe and seeing one tonight
05:19 PM veegee: On a vertical mill, I look for the scrape marks and such for assessing its quality and how it's been treated
05:20 PM veegee: but for lathes, I have no experience
05:20 PM veegee: What should I be looking for?
05:21 PM Tom_L: wear near the head?
05:22 PM Tom_L: most turning is done 'up close'
05:25 PM roycroft: yes, you want to make sure that in the middle of the bed the carriage has no play, then move it to right next to the chuck and see if there's any play
05:25 PM roycroft: there almost certainly will be if it's a well-used lathe
05:27 PM veegee: got it, so same idea as a vertical mill
05:27 PM veegee: although the one I bought was very well taken care of by the machinist and has very very little wear for a 10 year old mill
05:28 PM veegee: Should I bring anything with me like calipers or a micrometer? Or just wiggle it with my hands to check the play?
05:31 PM andypugh: Dial indicator on a mag base maybe
05:32 PM Tom_L: andypugh is a professional lathe shopper...
05:32 PM Tom_L: listen to him
05:32 PM gregcnc: If anything a piece of ground or turned rod and a .0001" indicator. if the machine isn't level you may not learn much
05:33 PM andypugh: I am not really, I have only bought 5 lathes in my whole life.
05:33 PM Tom_L: that's 4 more than me
05:33 PM andypugh: And two were cheap Chinese ones (my advice: don’t)
05:33 PM gregcnc: also google for common issues with make/model if you haven't yet
05:34 PM Tom_shop: 12k and still running andypugh
05:35 PM andypugh: That’s going a bit slow, then
05:36 PM veegee: dial indicator, good idea, thanks
05:38 PM Tom_L: it's a slow pc
05:38 PM Tom_L: d525
05:45 PM skunkworks: got a +/-15rpm wobble
05:45 PM skunkworks: (with no pid)
05:46 PM skunkworks: is spindle pid usually pretty low numbers? Like P of .5 and I of 1
05:51 PM skunkworks: 5.7hz at 600rpm
06:07 PM Tom_shop: just now hitting 26500 andypugh
06:08 PM andypugh: That’s running a lot slower than mine
06:08 PM Tom_shop: wonder why
06:08 PM Tom_shop: do they throttle back when hot? it's in a fairly warm shop
06:09 PM Tom_shop: thing is though... it's still running
06:09 PM pcw_home: I would think P needs to be close to 1 (if you are 1 RPM slow that adds 1 RPM to the commanded velocity
06:10 PM skunkworks: so far P=1 and I=1 seems the best
06:10 PM skunkworks: I mean - it works ok
06:11 PM skunkworks: but either there is a pully issue or the motor isn't comutating over its whole rotation
06:11 PM jymmmm: e=mcHammer... can't touch this^2
06:12 PM skunkworks: or something else
07:29 PM sync: CaptHindsight: how is that selfish? I fail to see how this is the case
08:39 PM Rab: andypugh, I just ran your test five times on a Core2Duo with 4.14.174-rtai. It locked up at passes 353, 71, 32, 1156, and 148. 1156 was odd; the script stalled, the GUI was still responsive, but most things I tried didn't work. I think it killed disk access.
08:41 PM Rab: FWIW I've never had the system freeze while exiting from LinuxCNC under this kernel (or otherwise).
09:06 PM CaptHindsight: sync: you're the first person that came to mind when the thread started
09:07 PM XXCoder: ah thread. was really wondering how the heck whole thing started. staying out besides this comment though. dont explain futher
09:26 PM CaptHindsight: new topic
09:27 PM renesis: oranges are yummy
09:27 PM CaptHindsight: is there some group of maybe users that are waiting for a new release?
09:28 PM CaptHindsight: the forums have so many threads now about howto install on everything from Ubuntu to Debian to Mint
09:29 PM Tom_L: not a new release to talk about yet so what else?
09:30 PM Tom_L: i think quite a few are using it already anyway
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: JT has like 73 howtos
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: well maybe 20
09:32 PM Tom_L: and?
09:32 PM CaptHindsight: I thought everyone was just using those for new instals
09:33 PM Tom_L: i've used several to try new installs on newer os