#linuxcnc Logs
May 31 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:36 AM Deejay: moin
05:17 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:18 AM XXCoder: yo
05:47 AM Deejay: re
06:18 AM Tom_L: morning
06:24 AM JT-Cave: yo
06:26 AM XXCoder: hey
06:31 AM _unreal_: yawn
06:31 AM _unreal_: wish I could find my darlington transistors :(
06:32 AM _unreal_: all missing
06:33 AM JT-Cave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLbqmwMQPxE
06:33 AM JT-Cave: there's my darlings
06:34 AM Tom_L: gettin big
06:35 AM JT-Cave: fast
06:35 AM JT-Cave: new feeder design I'm working on
08:53 AM veegee: You all are like family to me
08:54 AM veegee: I asked my friend to record me unloading the vertical mill with the forklift and setting on the loading bay. Flawless execution from pretty much a first time forklift driver
08:54 AM veegee: Turns out he pressed record twice and it didn't actually record D:
08:56 AM veegee: As for lifting the concrete block off, I'll definitely have that recorded with a good camera as well as from the air with my mavic 2 pro
08:56 AM veegee: They delivered the second forklift. Hydraulics are flawless, but engine idles rough. Nothing I can't fix.
08:56 AM veegee: But the best part about it is that rotating head
08:57 AM veegee: the guy said the rotating head is really rare and that alone costs $12,000
08:57 AM veegee: he said go sell it for $12,000 on ebay if you don't need it
08:57 AM veegee: He also gave me a truckload full of parts, and multiple of them. Like a full set of brand new hydraulics for that unit
08:57 AM veegee: not just a rebuild kit
08:57 AM veegee: I'm talking full drop in replacement hydraulic cylinders
08:58 AM veegee: A full engine rebuild kit
08:58 AM veegee: A brand new HUGE starter battery that costs like $300 alone
08:58 AM veegee: No clue why he let this thing go so cheap. I guess he wants to retire real fast
08:59 AM veegee: He said if I sell the extra spare parts (because there's no way I'd need like 3 spare steering wheels or levers or stuff like that), I'd easily be able to make another $10,000
09:06 AM enleth: veegee: he might own 25x more stuff he really wants to be rid of and realized he's either going to sell it cheap or spend his retirement selling it
09:08 AM enleth: this is literally what closeout buyers live off of exclusively
09:09 AM veegee: this guy was really nice though
09:09 AM veegee: as a person
09:09 AM veegee: I'm going to his store right now to see if he has anything else
09:10 AM enleth: he was probably hoping that his discount means something and lets someone decent do something interesting
09:11 AM enleth: I've bought some stuff from retirees who cared more about who's going to use it and for what purpose than the price, even if they were getting rid of it
09:29 AM veegee: enleth yeah that was the case here
09:30 AM veegee: I told him I was a hobbyist and intended to rebuild it
09:30 AM veegee: It's a beast, I'm going to do a full restoration
09:30 AM veegee: I think he appreciated that
09:58 AM jymmmm: G'morning
09:59 AM jymmmm: veegee: get all moved out?
09:59 AM veegee: Yes
09:59 AM veegee: a day late, but doesn't matter because they didn't notice
10:05 AM jymmmm: cool
10:05 AM jymmmm: solo?
10:07 AM Tom_L: veegee, what'd you find out about the loading dock?
10:18 AM _unreal_: ok I'm half way done to getting my little laser etcher converted to grbl
10:25 AM t4nk_freenode: ?
10:26 AM t4nk_freenode: the one you bought, with the dvd drives, _unreal_?
10:59 AM _unreal_: yes
11:49 AM _unreal_: #$%@#$ just lost the plastic nut to my switch?
11:58 AM _unreal_: !! found it. it was tightened all the way on the switch it blended
12:09 PM Loetmichel: re from the carwash... can confirm: the ragtop of the 318i convertible is waterproof... but: just added a liter of engine oil, pulled the dipstick: cappucino on it... OhOh!... (What did i expect at 247'000km?)
12:54 PM unterhaus: does putting <grin> in an email actually accomplish anything?
01:02 PM skunkworks: some machining required.. http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200531_120134.jpg
01:08 PM Tom_L: just a bigger hammer
02:14 PM _unreal_: ARG
02:14 PM _unreal_: OK have to get universal gcode sender setup
02:15 PM _unreal_: I would love to get this laser etcher working
02:17 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: Yep, too bad you don't have a mill or cnc, could get that done in 5 minutes
02:21 PM skunkworks: jymmmm: I will manage.
02:21 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: ;)
02:41 PM _unreal_: the net book I'm using is SOOOOOO SLOOOOOOOOOO
02:41 PM _unreal_: make it go faster
03:19 PM roycroft: does anyone here use a single linuxcnc computer to control multiple machines (one at a time)?
03:19 PM Tom_L: no but it shouldn't be hard at all
03:20 PM Tom_L: just set up different configs and icons
03:20 PM roycroft: just swap some cables whenever using a different machine, and some configs?
03:20 PM Tom_L: easy peasy with ethernet
03:21 PM Tom_L: rpi are cheap enough for that matter
03:21 PM Tom_L: they seem to work ok
03:22 PM roycroft: i have a nice little rack mount computer for my eventual mill-drill cnc conversion
03:22 PM roycroft: and basically everything i need for the conversion except the ball screws
03:23 PM Tom_L: i'm using a mini itx case on the mill. sits on a shelf next to it
03:23 PM roycroft: but there's an issue with that machine - probably spindle bearings - and i'm probably not going to deal with that for a while yet
03:24 PM roycroft: however, i'm really wanting a 3d printer - it's been in the back of my mind to get one for a long time, but i have some projects coming up soon that would really benefit from in-house 3d printing
03:24 PM roycroft: i thought that the linuxcnc machine would be good for controlling a 3d printer
03:24 PM roycroft: and i'd also like to build a cnc router at some point
03:25 PM roycroft: but space is at a premium in my shop, and since i have a linuxcnc machine in a roll-around rack, it would be pretty easy to move it to each machine as needed
03:25 PM roycroft: without having to dedicate a computer for each machine
03:27 PM roycroft: also, this has been recommended to me as a decent starter 3d printer:
03:27 PM roycroft: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QKJMJKG/
03:28 PM roycroft: any opinions/insights on that would be appreciated
03:28 PM roycroft: i don't know much about 3d printers - i used to know more, but most of what i knew a while back is no longer relevant
03:29 PM roycroft: i need to do some research on them, for sure
03:30 PM jdh: roycroft: ender3d
03:31 PM jymmmm: roycroft: they takes DAYS to create a part =)
03:37 PM * JavaBean doesn't recommend 'bed flinger' type 3d printers
03:38 PM JavaBean: would recommend starting with something like https://www.amazon.com/Comgrow-Creality-Printer-Printing-Function/dp/B07KQ2MTGM/
03:43 PM roycroft: i need to make a lot of parts
03:44 PM roycroft: that they can operate unattended means i'm not super concerned about how long it takes, but i don't want to spend two years printing parts for a project
03:44 PM jymmmm: jdh: Do eyou have a ender 3d?
03:45 PM roycroft: that ender 5 ed is pretty cheap
03:45 PM roycroft: i like that aspect :)
03:45 PM jdh: jymmmm: yeah
03:45 PM jymmmm: roycroft: if you toss it in a fire prrof cabinet
03:45 PM jymmmm: jdh: What do you think of it? pros/cons?
03:46 PM jdh: it's inexpensive. the demo prints are really good. easy to set up and level
03:46 PM roycroft: the build volume of the ender 3d is a lot smaller than the artillery sidewinder
03:46 PM jdh: cons... it's a 3d printer...
03:46 PM roycroft: but still probably big enough for my purposes
03:47 PM jymmmm: jdh: lol, and how much are spools of filament on avg?
03:47 PM jymmmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Z-9ncYsps
03:47 PM jdh: uses any stuff you want
03:47 PM jymmmm: jdh: I only have used a hot glue gun, so no clue at all
03:47 PM jdh: doesnt' work well with ABS out of the box
03:47 PM roycroft: do you use linuxcnc to drive the ender 3d?
03:48 PM jymmmm: jdh: how do you resolves using abs?
03:48 PM jdh: change the wiring so the cpu fan runs all the time instead of only when the printhead fan is running.
03:48 PM jdh: and evidently you really need an enclosure for decent ABS prints
03:49 PM jymmmm: jdh: oh, that's simple enough. But how much is a spool? $5 $25?
03:49 PM * roycroft will probably be printing mostly abs, at least initially
03:49 PM jdh: $20ish for a kg
03:49 PM jymmmm: k
03:49 PM jymmmm: That video mentions FLEXIABLE filamanet, kinda cool
03:49 PM jdh: roycroft: initially, you will probably be doing pla.
03:50 PM jdh: new ender is supposed to be better for abs & flexible out of the box
03:50 PM jymmmm: the 3d?
03:50 PM roycroft: i should say, once i've learned how to use it and start making real parts i'd want to make them with abs
03:50 PM jymmmm: ender 3d = new???
03:51 PM jdh: just a 3. dunno why I put the d on there
03:52 PM jymmmm: Ok, But Ender 3 is the "new" one you spoke of?
03:52 PM roycroft: i figure that, having no 3d printer experience, once i get one i'll probably spend 2-3 months playing with it before making real parts with it
03:52 PM jdh: no. might be the 5, but I just skimmed the article a while back
03:52 PM jymmmm: ah ok
03:52 PM roycroft: in my spare time, of course
03:53 PM jdh: my wife has a super expensive makerbot something at school. prints no better than the ender and it requires special filament
03:53 PM jymmmm: I'd probably only use it to make enclosures or functional parts for the most part
03:54 PM roycroft: the ender 3d is 27% less expensive thatn the sidewinder, so that's nice
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.zyltech.com/zyltech-abs/
03:54 PM jdh: cheap Pi with OctoPi makes it drag-and-drop via the web interface
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: ABS filament is $12.80/Kg
03:55 PM jymmmm: how many ft is that typically?
03:55 PM roycroft: that would depend on the diameter of the filiment, wouldn't i?
03:55 PM jdh: I just got Hatchbox filament from amazon.
03:56 PM roycroft: what slicing software do you all use?
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: I think jymmmm meant if printed like a measuring tape :)
03:57 PM jdh: I use cura because it is simple
03:58 PM jymmmm: I just have no clue how long would last for, one part? 10 parts?
03:58 PM jymmmm: would a spool*
03:58 PM roycroft: cool, there's a linux version of cura
03:58 PM roycroft: how much do your parts weigh?
03:58 PM jdh: there are slicers that run in Octopi also
03:58 PM jymmmm: roycroft: I've never used a 3d printer, so no clue
04:00 PM roycroft: i know that folks generally print 3d parts with a honeycomb interior, so it conserves on print time and material
04:00 PM roycroft: i'd say you can print quite a few parts, generally speaking with a kilo of filament
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: https://rigid.ink/blogs/news/how-many-meters-of-filament-on-a-spool
04:01 PM jymmmm: As example, $8 for this seems expensive... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZWSXZ2K/
04:01 PM roycroft: one of my projects for which i want a 3d printer is hardware/fastener storage boxes
04:01 PM roycroft: i'd guess they will weigh 10-20g each on average
04:02 PM roycroft: so i'd get 50-100 of them with a kilo of filament
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: 1Kg of PLA 1.75mm is 82.82 meters
04:02 PM jdh: jymmmm: filament cost is negligible for that
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: or more depending on solid vs % of hollow
04:02 PM jymmmm: jdh: and the run time you guess?
04:03 PM jdh: 1-3 hours? depends on how you slice it
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: on an SLA printer that would take 2-4 minutes
04:04 PM jymmmm: Cool, I could make a few of them way cheaper.
04:04 PM jymmmm: SLA?
04:04 PM jdh: yeah. $200 sla printer?
04:04 PM roycroft: so that ender 3d has an sd card slot
04:05 PM jdh: yeah. pain in the ass after using octopi
04:05 PM roycroft: does that mean i could just copy the output of the slicer onto an sd card, plug it into the printer, and it would do its thing without a control computer?
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: on a $200 SLA printer it would take 23 minutes
04:05 PM jdh: haven't touched the sd since the first day I printed the demo stuff
04:06 PM roycroft: my goal is to make parts, not to connect a linuxcnc computer to the printer
04:06 PM jdh: roycroft: yeah, but a headless pi is practically free
04:06 PM roycroft: so if the printer can run stand-alone that's great
04:06 PM roycroft: and yeah, a pi might be better
04:06 PM roycroft: no sneakernetting that way
04:06 PM roycroft: just scp
04:06 PM jymmmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEi4MWxrrn0
04:06 PM jdh: nah, just drag it to the octopi web interface
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: what is the attraction to Octoprint?
04:07 PM jdh: no sd card
04:08 PM jdh: no pushing buttons on the printer
04:08 PM jdh: drag the file, click print
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: maybe that is why people ask about CNC doing the same
04:09 PM roycroft: i don't have budget for a 3d printer at the moment
04:10 PM roycroft: so if i get one i'm going to have to do it on the cheap, to start out
04:10 PM CaptHindsight: roycroft: they practically print themselves :p
04:10 PM roycroft: so far that ender 5 3d fits the bill for "cheap"
04:10 PM jdh: I don't have as use for one....just bought it in case I was stuck at home with nothting to d
04:10 PM jdh: do
04:10 PM roycroft: and free software also fits that criterion
04:11 PM jdh: the stepper drivers in teh stock 3 are kind of whiney
04:11 PM CaptHindsight: i bet you can find people giving away their not working for them 3d printers
04:11 PM jdh: I'd prob give mine away if someone local wanted it
04:11 PM roycroft: i'm watching a video where a guy does some cheap and easy upgrades and gets really nice results with the ender 5
04:11 PM roycroft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0uxK_uRyjQ
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: you have to wonder why the manufacturer doesn't just do those mods for you
04:13 PM jdh: then it wouldn't be as cheap
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: anything rickety will require regular adjustments
04:13 PM CaptHindsight: who made the ultimate cheap FFF printer?
04:13 PM roycroft: because they add cost, capthindsight
04:14 PM CaptHindsight: must be one with wood and cardboard
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: "we left the handle off the screw driver to lower the price"
04:17 PM Deejay: gn8
04:18 PM jymmmm: Deejay: dn9
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: 2pc socket set, all the sizes you need as long as its 1/2"
04:20 PM roycroft: if you're buying a 3d printer you can print your screwdriver handle :)
04:22 PM roycroft: so a wee bit of research suggests that if i want parts that are more durable than can be made with pla, petg might be a better alternative than abs
04:23 PM roycroft: but petg is almost unpaintable and is absolutely unable to be glued
04:24 PM roycroft: abs is cheaper, though
04:24 PM roycroft: i like cheaper
04:27 PM CaptHindsight: add a bit of MEK to bond to PETG
04:32 PM CaptHindsight: and Butyl Acetate
05:11 PM jymmmm: WEll, I found the calculations, sadly they are in a 100,000 year old anicent alien language... https://www.engineersedge.com/mechanics_machines/scissor-lift.htm
05:28 PM roycroft: excellent
05:28 PM roycroft: my sanitary welder thinks he can fix my broken timing gear
05:29 PM roycroft: he even thinks he can do it without damaging the inside thread, but he cautions me that i'll probably need to chase the thread when he's done, so i guess i have to order a 1/2"-16 tap
05:51 PM roycroft: and wow
05:51 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, you know i couldn't let it go without doing the bottom chamfer: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Snapper/Knob4.jpg
05:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Snapper/Knob5.jpg
05:52 PM roycroft: amazon just informed me that i can buy a used ender 5 for only $20 more than a brand new one
05:54 PM Tom_L: you should do it... you get free shipping!!
05:55 PM roycroft: i get free shipping on the new one
05:55 PM roycroft: but i see what's going on
05:55 PM roycroft: the consumer price of the printer is higher than the used price
05:55 PM roycroft: but the business price is lower
06:02 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: you have a problem ;)
06:03 PM skunkworks: I ran the little emco in css and feed/rev.. that is pretty cool
06:06 PM Tom_L: nice
06:06 PM Tom_L: yeah there's just no cure
06:07 PM skunkworks: don't have feedback yet - so - sorta virtual. (but the spindle rpm was changing)
06:08 PM Tom_L: is that what the encoder pic is for?
06:08 PM Tom_L: the lathe..
06:08 PM skunkworks: yes - need to finish that.
06:08 PM skunkworks: and the belt is on the way
06:08 PM Tom_L: how many of those encoders do you have?
06:22 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: i don't know
06:23 PM skunkworks: probably not enough...
06:46 PM veegee: roycroft how about Nylon?
06:46 PM veegee: Aren't the good ones normally made with glass fibre reenforced Nylon?
07:09 PM skunkworks: Is a spindle pid mostly I and ff1?
07:13 PM pcw_home: P,I, FF0
07:14 PM skunkworks: heh
07:14 PM skunkworks: well - good to know.
07:14 PM pcw_home: FF0 because velocity command, velocity feedback
07:14 PM skunkworks: right
07:15 PM skunkworks: Can't wait to play with it.
07:16 PM pcw_home: pncconf sets it up that way even if open loop (FF0=1.0 everything else = 0)
07:16 PM skunkworks: The emco is running really well. No noise issues. the cheap bob's analog out isn't perfect. but it will work I think.
07:17 PM skunkworks: I used a simple relay to reverse the analog to the drive.
07:17 PM skunkworks: (won't work for positioning obviousley)
07:17 PM jymmmm: roycroft: business price?
07:24 PM skunkworks: pcw_home: thanks
07:38 PM roycroft: jymmm: i have an amazon business account as well as a personal account
07:39 PM roycroft: it's interesting to compare prices between the two
07:41 PM roycroft: that 3d printer, for example, is $375.99 on my personal ccount, but $339.15 on the business account
07:42 PM roycroft: so if i buy it you know which account i'll use :)
07:42 PM Tom_L: why bother having two then?
07:43 PM roycroft: most of what i buy for personal use, such as cds and books, are not discounted on the business account
07:43 PM Tom_L: oh
07:43 PM roycroft: and having the two accounts helps me keep my books straight
07:43 PM Tom_L: wondering if it be worth my trouble to set one up
07:43 PM roycroft: if you have an established business it takes like 5 minutes
07:44 PM Tom_L: discounts i mean
07:44 PM Tom_L: i'm not worried if i qualify
07:44 PM roycroft: you create a new account, tell them you want a business account, give them your tax id, and they get back to you in a couple days
07:44 PM roycroft: i find it worth it
07:45 PM roycroft: i generally get nice discounts on tools/machinery, technology, and shop consumables like blue towels and cleaners
07:46 PM roycroft: as in the example above
07:46 PM roycroft: almost 11% discount on a 3d printer
07:46 PM roycroft: over $40
07:46 PM roycroft: that's worth it
07:47 PM roycroft: but it depends on what you buy
09:09 PM unterhaus: I'm not sure I'm ready for another episode of Pataal loc right now.
09:10 PM jymmmm: YOU CAN DO IT!!!
09:26 PM skunkworks: emco looks like it is running 2khz
09:26 PM skunkworks: (been so long)
09:29 PM jymmmm: emco?
09:29 PM jymmmm: is that the blue or green machine?
09:30 PM jdh: lathe?
09:40 PM Tom_L: yellow
09:43 PM jymmmm: pink!!!
09:44 PM XXCoder: neon of course
09:44 PM XXCoder: black light above it is required
09:45 PM jymmmm: I think I found a scissor lift design I like, now just to figure out hw to scale it down a WHOLE LOT
09:45 PM jymmmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtaD9UJDx8A
09:45 PM XXCoder: dimensions * 0.1
09:46 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: Ok, watch the video and gimme the dimensions =)
09:46 PM XXCoder: lol
09:46 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: YOu've never done that?
09:47 PM XXCoder: nah
09:47 PM XXCoder: m not much of mader sadly
09:49 PM jymmmm: You try to find something you know you can use as a scale for reference, then use that to give everything else a dimension
09:49 PM XXCoder: ie: banana stanbdard
09:49 PM XXCoder: https://i.redd.it/6688tff4tq531.png
09:51 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: I'd use the rivet heads actually
09:51 PM infornography: LOL
09:51 PM XXCoder: probably but i dont need lift table :)
09:51 PM XXCoder: honestlu i like make it extreme version better
09:52 PM XXCoder: you can stand on it while its lifting
09:52 PM XXCoder: but then its not battery powered
09:54 PM jymmmm: scissorlift DUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30InBgGhiSo
09:55 PM XXCoder: someone was dui and hit cop. good thing it was electric wheelchair and he was moving 1 mph
09:56 PM XXCoder: jeez
09:56 PM XXCoder: mocking by moving up and down. good thing hyrorics can be released
09:57 PM skunkworks: jymmmm: yellow
09:58 PM skunkworks: jymmmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM3UR5sJ5X8&t=4s
10:00 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: cool =)
10:43 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: When watching youtube, press SHIFT+/
10:43 PM XXCoder: ?
10:44 PM Tom_L: can you put an M5 on the same line as a G53? i see no reason i can't
10:44 PM XXCoder: that depends on machine pretty lot
10:44 PM Tom_L: well we generally talk about linuxcnc here
10:44 PM Tom_L: or chickens
10:45 PM XXCoder: true. not sure if chickens accept m5 on same line as g53 though
10:45 PM XXCoder: ;)
10:46 PM Tom_L: just trying to simplify my post a little
10:47 PM Tom_L: guess i can try and see
10:47 PM XXCoder: i dont really see why not since m5 should be usable anywhere
10:47 PM XXCoder: like cool spray, you could set it anywhere or turn it off
10:49 PM Tom_L: ahh nevermind. it's not called where i thought it was anyway
10:49 PM Tom_L: this is a special case
11:25 PM jymmmm: If you are standing on the top left, what prevents it from falling? Same thing for top right? https://i.imgur.com/jEPZPGz.png
11:26 PM XXCoder: think maker one is centeral
11:26 PM XXCoder: meaning it draws in and stays at center
11:27 PM jymmmm: It seems to me where all the force is, is at the X pivot point in the midle?
11:27 PM jymmmm: middle*
11:27 PM XXCoder: think thats why extreme makers made that joint very strong
11:28 PM jymmmm: And if you stand on the right, maybe reach for something, seem the \ bar could start to tiip outwards taking the whole thing with it???
11:29 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38yPR25VSw4 makers one. note I misremembered some details but nevertheless extremely strong
11:29 PM jymmmm: Ok, they "caged" the wheels it seems
11:29 PM jymmmm: to prevent exactly what I was talking about
11:30 PM XXCoder: 1:45 they made end joints. out of steel slabs
11:31 PM XXCoder: 3: making of center joint
11:31 PM XXCoder: steel tube welded into frame, and using 1 inch bolt
11:31 PM Tom_L: damn template is picky
11:38 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: Yeah, like a bushing
11:41 PM jymmmm: Oh this loks interesting... https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-in-x-36-in-Zinc-Plated-Punched-Square-Tube-803037/206939549
11:52 PM XXCoder: looking
11:52 PM XXCoder: bit weaker than ones in extreme but yeah
11:56 PM jymmmm: Pfff, not doing EXTREME tyvm
11:56 PM jymmmm: =)
11:57 PM XXCoder: what you dont want to ride it up?
11:57 PM jymmmm: I think I just need to figure out a bushing of sorts, I don't weld
11:58 PM XXCoder: think the more tight you make it fit the more strength it has
11:58 PM CaptHindsight: if you were riding it down a hill it would not matter much which side you stand on
11:58 PM jymmmm: I could use 1/4" bolts, then just find some thick wall tubing
11:58 PM jymmmm: SMH @ CaptHindsight
11:58 PM jymmmm: lol
11:59 PM CaptHindsight: there would be more spring the farther you move from the scissor
11:59 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: that's just an easy ride suspension