#linuxcnc Logs

May 23 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:59 AM Deejay: moin
04:06 AM HexaCube: hey folks, I was asked to maybe ask here --- I'm currently designing a kinda shitty router and was wondering wether or not I need a brake for the Z-axis? I'm planning for a SFU1204 ballscrew and I guess around 8-10kg on the z-axis and am worried about the weight backdriving the screw when power is off
04:06 AM HexaCube: (and thus, the spindle hitting the base :D)
04:07 AM XXCoder: aha that is bit more clear lolo
04:07 AM XXCoder: depends on lot of factors actually
04:07 AM XXCoder: like how heavy parts that move in z are
04:08 AM XXCoder: a61 at work for example has backup brake system that still drops 1/4 inch or so if blackout happen, but thats still better than falling to bottom
04:08 AM XXCoder: preload is likely also a factor
04:10 AM HexaCube: I mean I don't mind a little sag, i just don't want the spindle hitting the bottom :D
04:11 AM XXCoder: had a thought, maybe theres something that must be activately retained from braking, and blackout would cause it to loosen and stop screw from rotating
04:11 AM XXCoder: and you should be here more lol
04:11 AM XXCoder: being a machine designer and all :P
04:11 AM HexaCube: yes, isn't that how brakes usually work? :D
04:11 AM HexaCube: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/brake-separate/dc-electromagnetic-brake-24v-025nm354ozin-for-nema-17-stepper-motor-swb-01.html
04:11 AM HexaCube: someting like that
04:12 AM XXCoder: pretty cool
04:12 AM XXCoder: and bit expensive for one
04:12 AM XXCoder: being 3 times cheap nema17 lol
04:12 AM HexaCube: yeah they have a stepper with that brake for around 50USD or so
04:12 AM HexaCube: like, preassembled and wired
04:13 AM XXCoder: fun
04:14 AM XXCoder: well just ensure your machine can be modified to add those or something
04:14 AM XXCoder: and try without, and see if it just falls down
04:14 AM XXCoder: if it does, add em
04:19 AM sensille: maybe just shorting the stepper is enough
04:19 AM XXCoder: with what power?
04:20 AM sensille: with an nc relay?
04:20 AM XXCoder: with power from what?
04:20 AM HexaCube: that's an interesting idea sensille
04:20 AM XXCoder: we was talking abpout loss of power :)
04:21 AM * HexaCube wonders if that can be implemented easily
04:21 AM HexaCube: XXCoder the motor will generate it's own holding torque when the phases are shorted - no external power needed
04:21 AM sensille: problem is that torque is only generated during movement
04:21 AM XXCoder: wouldnt that still "leak" and lower very slowly
04:22 AM XXCoder: which isnt as bad as simply falling
04:22 AM sensille: so it might just extremely slow down the head
04:25 AM HexaCube: I still don't even know where I'd put this router
04:25 AM XXCoder: ask dr who
04:25 AM XXCoder: man I'd love to have "inside is bigger" tech
05:19 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:20 AM XXCoder: yo
05:36 AM _unreal_: cant sleep
05:36 AM _unreal_: hy01d511b I'm not sure what kind of a RESISTOR I need for the breaking resistor?
05:38 AM Vq: Good afternoon
05:44 AM HexaCube: hehe, F360 yields interesting shape optimisation results https://i.imgur.com/fAokr0s.png
05:44 AM XXCoder: fancy!
05:44 AM XXCoder: could cut out most of no force areas
05:52 AM _unreal_: hy01d511b Finally found the answer
05:52 AM _unreal_: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32712934372.html
05:53 AM _unreal_: 100watt 200ohm resistor
05:53 AM _unreal_: just ordered from amazon
05:59 AM _unreal_: This weekend I want to power up my spindle if I can
06:11 AM XXCoder: ahh scary for machinists https://www.chickenwingscomics.com/comic/where-are-my-calipers/
06:24 AM sensille: ouch
06:25 AM XXCoder: im not much of airplanes fan but that comics always funny]
06:44 AM Tom_L: morning
06:50 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:59 AM Tom_L: looks like a nice day here
07:05 AM JT-Cave: not too bad here just a chance of T-storms
07:06 AM JT-Cave: we are going out to eat this evening to celebrate our 33 anniversary and pick up a couple of sacks of dried mealworms
07:07 AM SpeedEvil: Ah - romantic food.
07:43 AM _unreal_: loving my stocks right now
07:47 AM _unreal_: hate to take apart a finished adapter for something else but I need the connector. sigh.
08:33 AM jymmmm: JT-Cave: They are allowing dining in?
08:34 AM jymmmm: ...or just togo?
08:35 AM JT-Cave: dine in
08:35 AM JT-Cave: limited seating
08:35 AM Tom_L: ours are allowing limited dining
08:36 AM jymmmm: Oh nice
08:36 AM _unreal_: DONE... just finished the last of the major wiring inside the control box
08:36 AM Tom_L: we haven't had near the cases alot of places have
08:37 AM JT-Cave: we have 28 in our county
08:37 AM JT-Cave: the 3 counties to the north have a total of 4 cases
08:38 AM jymmmm: Calif new cases per day contonue to rise, as of Friday 2218 new cases
08:39 AM jymmmm: by summer, I suspect a spike country wide
08:39 AM JT-Cave: where we are going to eat they have 3 cases in that county so far
08:40 AM jymmmm: that sgood at least
08:40 AM _unreal_: jymmmm, its been proven that its being maliciously
08:40 AM SpeedEvil: UK is still world-beating in deaths per million. Yay! And that's despite having a national health system and no issues with state government. We have the best plans!
08:41 AM SpeedEvil: https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=usa&areas=gbr&areasRegional=usny&areasRegional=usnj&cumulative=0&logScale=1&perMillion=1&values=deaths
08:41 AM _unreal_: https://www.mcknights.com/news/nursing-homes-no-longer-being-forced-to-take-covid-19-patients/
08:41 AM _unreal_: nursing homes where SEEDED by force
08:42 AM _unreal_: btw Pennsylvania gov. did the same thing AND was caught moving a family member out of a nursing home a week or so before enacting there idential law.
08:42 AM _unreal_: There are going to be SOOOO many law suites...
08:42 AM _unreal_: democrat party is dead at this point
08:45 AM _unreal_: corona virus was already WELLLLLLL known by DEC. 2019, the demography it would hit hard.
08:47 AM _unreal_: after this fall's elections, there is going to be a RED wave LIKE THERE HAS never been before.
08:47 AM _unreal_: I STRONGLY suggest you if not already GET INTO the stock market
08:47 AM _unreal_: because its going to be the most BULL market we've had in a long time
08:48 AM _unreal_: if we have a RED wave at election time
08:48 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Know where I can find a 16.8V@ 15A PS/charger?
08:48 AM _unreal_: hell FRI. I made $1400 just on the market
08:49 AM _unreal_: jymmmm maybe a car battery charger that has an adjustable output
08:50 AM _unreal_: an alternative would be a golf cart charter... for the low voltage versions
08:52 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: or 60A
08:52 AM Tom_L: jymmmm, 13.4 isn't enough?
08:53 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/12v_supply3.jpg
08:53 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: voltage no, These are LiPo cells
08:53 AM Tom_L: k
08:53 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: 60AH
08:54 AM _unreal_: ezgo golf cart battery chargers can be had for next to nothing and they put out a lot of power
08:55 AM _unreal_: jymmmm, how fast are you trying to charge the batteries?
08:56 AM _unreal_: or are you parallel charging?
08:58 AM Tom_L: jymmmm, they might have something, i dunno: https://www.iotaengineering.com/power.htm
09:04 AM jymmmm: Tom_L: Since I'll be using a BMS, it doesn't necessarily need to be a charger, could just be a PS instead. I already need to locate a 12V to 16.8V DC-DC cnverter for car charging, I suppose I can charge in 8 hours, but it be nicer if I can charge them faster once in a while
09:05 AM SpeedEvil: You need a constant current source at least. A typical BMS will not transform the voltage and will just trip out due to overcurrent if directly connected
09:05 AM SpeedEvil: (or the PSU will)
09:12 AM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: Well, I just found this for the mains charging... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32668056584.html
09:13 AM SpeedEvil: That in principle should be OK if properly designed.
09:14 AM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: If this isn't total crap, might work for car charging https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000903098432.html
09:15 AM SpeedEvil: Indeed.
09:15 AM SpeedEvil: If you are regularly charging a lithium battery, you should terminate the charge after the current drops to 0.1C or so, or you should work out what end voltage that current happens at and terminate at that voltage.
09:15 AM SpeedEvil: Err
09:16 AM SpeedEvil: What the resting voltage of the cells is after terminating at 0.1C and leaving for an hour, rather
09:17 AM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: Would a smart bms resolve that?
09:18 AM SpeedEvil: jymmmm: no.
09:19 AM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: I thought some of the smart bms can be set a profile (even per cell) ?
09:20 AM SpeedEvil: jymmmm: BMS typically does not do this (very expensive ones might)
09:20 AM SpeedEvil: Charge termination and providing a CC/CV source with low undervoltage charge and termination and such is usually the chargers responsibility
09:26 AM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: I heard good things about DALY BMS, was planning on getting the seperate port 60A https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882063870.html
09:28 AM SpeedEvil: That does not seem to do charge termination on prolonged charge. As you ideally want to improve battery life. The charger you linked may or may not do that.
09:28 AM tiwake: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465548115101876225/713569054610292736/20200522_0002.jpg
09:28 AM tiwake: some chatter from a bigass allied machinery drill
09:29 AM SpeedEvil: Now imagine someone asking you to make those.
09:29 AM tiwake: I've never seen chatter produce such regular feather looking like strands, so I took some home and took a picture (with my fancy camera)
09:29 AM tiwake: right
09:29 AM SpeedEvil: :)
09:29 AM tiwake: or more like, I show it off and go "try to top that"
09:30 AM tiwake: heh
10:38 AM tiwake: the background in that picture is 1/4" amber tinted glass
10:38 AM tiwake: with fabric behind it
10:39 AM tiwake: I also have clear glass, as well as a mirror, specifically for photography
10:50 AM HexaCube: is there a general consensus on this board? https://www.poscope.com/product/pokeys57cnc/
10:51 AM HexaCube: looks decent to me, apparently it comes with a plugin for mach3, mach4
10:51 AM HexaCube: and I bet it runs with linuxcnc too :D
10:57 AM Tom_L: i bet it doesn't
10:58 AM Tom_L: you would need a linuxcnc driver for it
10:59 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: buy a big 12V meanwell PSU and crank it up ;)
10:59 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: what about charge disconnect once full?
11:00 AM Tom_L: disconnect it
11:01 AM * Loetmichel just came back from retriving the bought BMW 318i convertible... Seller screwed my license plates on while i threw my stuff on the passenger seat. The moment i closed the door the paseenger side mirror cover fell off onto the ground. The seller looked like "oh no. now he will want to have his money back!" priceless... (was an easy fix with some silver duct tape though, just a few
11:01 AM * Loetmichel broken clips)
11:01 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: which kind of battery?
11:02 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: 4S LiPo @ 60AH = 888WH
11:03 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: 16.8V charge voltage, iirc
11:03 AM Loetmichel: in that case: just adjust the voltage correctly and check if it wanders with heat
11:04 AM Loetmichel: if it does not: hope that the BMS can take that much charge current and still balance
11:04 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Right, but SpeedEvil was mentioning once charged, how to disconnect the PS?
11:05 AM Loetmichel: Li** can be charged with simple constant voltage chargers aka normal PSUs, as long as the current is not high enough to damage the cells and the voltage is within 1% stable
11:05 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: you dont need to
11:05 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Why's that?
11:06 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: the BMS I'm considering (seperate port, 60A) has a 30A charge rate... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32882063870.html
11:07 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: you can hold Li** indefinetly at max charge voltage without damage (unless you count the heightened aging for being 100% full)
11:07 AM Loetmichel: you dont need to disconnect the PSU.
11:08 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: ah, gotcha.
11:08 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: For DC charging from Car, I was considering this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000903098432.html
11:09 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I'm open to ideas for both AC and DC charging too
11:13 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I just haven't found anything in the higher amperage range
11:15 AM jymmmm: I'd like to be able to charge to full within 5 to 8 hours (5 hours being on solar, but not including that right now)
11:30 AM SpeedEvil: Disconnect is to make the cells live longer. Leaving them on float charge at 4.20V long term will reduce their life.
11:30 AM SpeedEvil: If you reduce the charge ending voltage to 4.1V instead, this stops being an issue
11:37 AM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: If it holds any merit, the charger (AC or DC) would probably be disconnected from it's source within 2-3 hours of fully charging the battery, not left connected 24/7.
11:37 AM SpeedEvil: That helps.
11:38 AM SpeedEvil: It matters if you want to get (say) 500 cycles, not 450. (numbers made up) before the battery dies.
11:52 AM enleth: are there prebuilt 2.7.15 ISOs anywhere? http://linuxcnc.org/downloads/ lists 2.7.14 only, http://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/ has 2.7.14, http://www.linuxcnc.org/testing-stretch-rtpreempt/ is ancient and who knows which version
11:54 AM JT-Cave: just do sudo apt update and sudo apt dist-upgrade
11:55 AM enleth: ok, that works too
11:55 AM enleth: how much does the ISO-installed system actually differ from a stock Debian with the repo from buildbot added?
11:58 AM JT-Cave: you can't run LinuxCNC on a stock Debian OS
11:59 AM enleth: doesn't the buildbot repo contain rt-preempt kernel packages as well, so that a stock install could be turned into LinuxCNC?
12:01 PM enleth: I don't necessarily want to do that, but I'm curious what changes are needed, if any, other than just a patched kernel
12:03 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: Yeah, I do get it that continuously charging (any battery) constantly degrades it's life. Now, preventing that electronically is another matter, such as with solar charging. (future plans, not now)
12:08 PM enleth: regarding batteries degrading from being charged constantly: using two different battery chemistry types and a smart charger works, too
12:09 PM enleth: there are batteries designed for being charged all the time without degrading, at the cost of energy density
12:09 PM enleth: look up railroad traction batteries
12:09 PM HexaCube: sooooo... if I wanna run linuxcnc, what kinda hardware should I get?
12:10 PM HexaCube: like, what specs should I look out for
12:10 PM HexaCube: for a PC running LinuxCNC
12:10 PM enleth: HexaCube: literally anything performance-wise, but it needs to perform well under realtime loads, which is not something you'll see in the spec sheet, unfortunately
12:11 PM HexaCube: so, there's no way of telling beforehand?
12:11 PM jymmmm: HexaCube: The ability to use an external (not onboard) video card helps in many cases I've seen.
12:12 PM enleth: HexaCube: technically speaking and x86-based PC made in the last 15 years will be more than enough in terms of raw performance, what disqualifies many motherboards and most laptops is shitty ACPI and other power management-related firmware and hardware
12:12 PM enleth: because it introduces jitter, sudden unexplainable latency on the CPU and other garbage like this
12:13 PM enleth: *any x86-based
12:13 PM HexaCube: Is that the same case for Mach3? I'm still unsure which one I should even choose :(
12:14 PM jymmmm: HexaCube: Sometimes disabling things in BIOS you don't need/use can help a little as well.
12:14 PM enleth: HexaCube: most likely, yes, but specific cases that affect LinuxCNC might not be a problem for Mach and vice versa
12:14 PM HexaCube: choosing hardware is hard :S
12:14 PM HexaCube: too much choice, too little explanation out there :P
12:16 PM jymmmm: Maybe ppl here can mention what mobo's they are using on their systems that seems to work well, but I don't think there is a list, at least not an up to date one.
12:16 PM HexaCube: I'd rather be interested in buying an old used system for it anyways
12:16 PM HexaCube: so finding a specific mainboard might be near impossible anyways hehe
12:16 PM jymmmm: Why?
12:17 PM jymmmm: hardware is cheap these days,
12:17 PM jymmmm: unless you have an old system laying around already.
12:17 PM HexaCube: because the more money I can save the better
12:17 PM jymmmm: You can have it fast, cheap, or good.... pick any TWO =)
12:18 PM HexaCube: as much as I wish, I can't afford a high-end setup, so sacrifices have to be made :P
12:19 PM dirty_d: HexaCube, rpi 4 works, that's pretty cheap
12:19 PM jymmmm: EVERYONE says that, then they end up spending more money than they could have had they just not been such cheap bastards in the beginning, self included =)
12:19 PM HexaCube: I don't think I can invest much more than say... 1000 EUR or so, but I do have access to near-free lasercutting and machining for small stuff :D
12:19 PM dirty_d: but you need a mesa card, so it's rpi 4 cost + about $120 for the mesa card
12:20 PM jymmmm: HexaCube: $100 Euro for the PC alone? That's WAY more than enough.
12:20 PM jymmmm: 1000*
12:20 PM HexaCube: no, 1000 EUR in total for a cnc router setup :P
12:20 PM HexaCube: which is a tight budget, I'm aware
12:21 PM HexaCube: i'm not really expecting to properly cut alu though, just plastics, wood, foam, that sorta stuff
12:21 PM HexaCube: https://i.imgur.com/Z3f2cVC.png currently spending some time putting together the router itself
12:21 PM jymmmm: HexaCube: you could buy a china router, then upgrade the electronics
12:21 PM dirty_d: HexaCube, wood is also an option
12:21 PM HexaCube: eh, building it myself is what makes it enjoyable though :P
12:22 PM dirty_d: I built one, about 30"x30" work area, can cut aluminum
12:22 PM jymmmm: You'll have enough building, more than you think.
12:22 PM enleth: HexaCube: there's little explanation because the things that make a specific mobo unsuitable for a CNC controller are, simply speaking, hardware and firmware flaws, which the vendor either doesn't even know about or doesn't care for and doesn't want you to know about them
12:22 PM dirty_d: yes, much building
12:23 PM jymmmm: HexaCube: What do you want, to build once or make swarf?
12:23 PM HexaCube: I've spent the last uh... well, 1.5 years building my 'dream 3d printer' and now that it's coming to an end I need a new project machine :P
12:24 PM jymmmm: HexaCube: eh, restore a car instead =)
12:24 PM HexaCube: Hah
12:24 PM HexaCube: that might be even more expensive though ;P
12:28 PM jymmmm: HexaCube: I saw a girl that didn't even know how to use a cordless drill take a old van and covert it into a sleeper, with toilet, lights, sink, stove, etc
12:28 PM HexaCube: I already said, someday I'm gonna buy a datsun 240z and restore it.... but i think that'll take another 10-20 years until I can afford that kinda hobby :D
12:28 PM HexaCube: https://i.imgur.com/pnr0qnK.jpg that's the printer I built, nice and solid, around 25kg steel :P
12:28 PM HexaCube: but I still need something that can remove material instead ;D
12:30 PM jymmmm: chainsaw?
12:30 PM jymmmm: blowtorch?
12:31 PM jymmmm: robotic chainsaw attached to a drone!!!!
12:33 PM Thorhian: Holy crud HexaCube, you should convert it into a toolchanger system based on E3D's system lol
12:33 PM HexaCube: Thorhian I built it with something like that in mind actually
12:34 PM Thorhian: I see painter's tape though lol. No heated bed yet?
12:34 PM HexaCube: not yet, no :P it's... let's say it's operational, but not quite finished yet ^^
12:35 PM Thorhian: XD Sounds good. I've decided that my Ender3 is good enough for now in terms of 3D printing so I've focused on building a CNC Mill before getting something fancier.
12:35 PM HexaCube: Reason I'm thinking about a router is because I'll soon quit my job and head to university, which means only a few more months of "free machining time"
12:38 PM Thorhian: BTW, if you aren't looking into cutting much aluminum or metal, you could try out the MPCNC HexaCube
12:38 PM HexaCube: Nahh, don't get me wrong but I want something more... substantial than that :P
12:39 PM Thorhian: XD It's pretty capable, but okay lol
01:03 PM _unreal_: getting ready to power my VFD/spindle for the first time
01:04 PM fleeky: what kind of cnc machines do people have in this channel?
01:05 PM Loetmichel: fleeky: anything from a chinese 3018 for $100 to big half a million machines ;)
01:11 PM HexaCube: Loetmichel now do those people run linuxcnc on that half-million dollar machine? :P
01:11 PM HexaCube: hehe
01:19 PM * t4nk_freenode tests his new router bits on _unreal_
01:20 PM t4nk_freenode: mmmzzzz I'll return em.. bloody bits!
01:22 PM Tom_L: HexaCube, yes
01:24 PM Thorhian: I mean, even if companies use proprietary controller systems, they still use Linux a lot of the time. I saw a controller system for a 5 axis Kern machine booting into Linux running XFCE for it's DE lol.
01:24 PM Thorhian: It was a HEIDENHAIN controller I believe.
01:24 PM HexaCube: fair enough :P
01:24 PM * HexaCube only ever used Sinumerik
01:25 PM HexaCube: our machines boot into some weird windows 10 system
01:25 PM HexaCube: or windows 7, I'm not even sure actually
01:25 PM Thorhian: That sucks.
01:25 PM HexaCube: but that might just be UI related
01:34 PM Loetmichel: HexaCube: some do
01:39 PM _unreal_: works...
01:39 PM _unreal_: spindle is up and running everything is great!!
01:40 PM _unreal_: only upgrades I'll need to do is get/add an RF filter for the AC input side
01:40 PM Loetmichel: HexaCube: i have seen a lot of CNC controllers boot into winNT actually
01:40 PM Loetmichel: and even recently on fairly new machines ,)
01:40 PM _unreal_: fleeky, and homemade machines
01:42 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: i included homemade machines. somwhere between the 3018 and the full haas machining centre
01:42 PM Loetmichel: :-)
01:42 PM _unreal_: heh
01:43 PM Thorhian: What the crud, Windows NT. If any of those machines are connected to the network....
01:43 PM _unreal_: so got my spindle setup. setup ferrite beads on the spdinel wire
01:43 PM _unreal_: grouped, the single wire beads then grouped again
01:43 PM _unreal_: It was strongly reccomended
01:44 PM _unreal_: also the entire wire is shielded
01:44 PM Loetmichel: Thorhian: so are most of the ATMs here in europe ;)
01:44 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, and people wonder why microsoft is just $$$ killing it
01:45 PM HexaCube: we can even see the status of our machines via an app! :P
01:45 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: had to put some clip ferrites on my spindle cable. and some braided copper tube around it
01:45 PM Loetmichel: otherwise i had randomly stepping motors. thanks to chinese VFDs ;)
01:45 PM HexaCube: industry 4.0 and stuff
02:04 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, I'd suggest an AC INPUT filter as well
02:05 PM Loetmichel: it has an AC input filter
02:05 PM _unreal_: I'd add an external https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_filter
02:05 PM _unreal_: just an INLINE
02:06 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12560 <- spindle cable reworked
02:06 PM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12506 <- spindle set original
02:06 PM _unreal_: ya mine didnt come with a cable
02:07 PM _unreal_: useful cable anyways
02:07 PM _unreal_: SOO happy my spindle works and I didnt blow it up
02:09 PM t4nk_freenode: (yet)
02:09 PM t4nk_freenode: (/me starts the stop-watch)
02:10 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: there you can see the filter dangling: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15256
02:10 PM Loetmichel: (took a while to find a pic where its visible ;)
02:11 PM Loetmichel: ... and a few more ferrite rings ,)
02:46 PM CaptHindsight: $22K and only 1 axis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPMrO4kh9VA&feature=emb_logo
02:48 PM infornography: too much data, but want to see
02:48 PM infornography: what is it?
02:48 PM CaptHindsight: Programmable Tube Bender
02:50 PM infornography: oh
03:08 PM fleeky: anyone here made a cnc robot arm ?
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: fleeky: yes, what type are you thinking of?
03:09 PM fleeky: just doing research atm
03:09 PM fleeky: something that could handle a plasma cutter .. maybe a router
03:10 PM fleeky: prolly just plasma cutter tho
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: you can buy used for very low prices vs new
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1v7a0jsp1I Harmonic Drive
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: ^^ a part they tend to revolve around
03:11 PM fleeky: yeah harmonic drives are muy bueno
03:12 PM fleeky: i think like most people i am looking for something cost effective , wont take a rocket scientist to assemble and wont need constant maintanence
03:12 PM fleeky: so magic robot arm
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: depends on speed, size and loads
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: they make cheap ones in China for limited purposes
03:14 PM fleeky: any links off the top of your head
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: lowest cost new robot are are ~$10K USD
03:14 PM fleeky: oh blar
03:14 PM fleeky: yeah no , i am aiming to learn from the ground up ..
03:14 PM CaptHindsight: some SCARA's are less
03:14 PM fleeky: eg . make as cheap as possible
03:15 PM fleeky: might work on a cnc plasma first to be able to do cut out body assemblies ,, again just doing initial research
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: there are plastic arms for far less
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: and some sheet metal toy arms
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: $5k https://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/industrial-robots/uc-berkeley-blue-low-cost-force-controlled-robot-arm
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: $8K http://strobotics.com/
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: $3k https://www.dezeen.com/2015/10/21/movie-automata-democratise-robotics-3000-dollar-six-axis-robot-eva/
03:17 PM fleeky: oh jeez
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: some cheaper ones on kickstarter
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: mainly toys
03:17 PM fleeky: ok i guess i should go back to figuring out the most cost effective close loop motor *first*
03:17 PM fleeky: and the best way to control it all
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: thats already done
03:18 PM fleeky: like mechaduino + oversized steppers
03:18 PM fleeky: say 200 a joint * 6 = still only 1200 + body , cnc'ed from thin wood maybe + control board = 1400 max
03:19 PM fleeky: 150 for a motor + 50 for mechaduino
03:21 PM fleeky: CaptHindsight: what were you thinking of in terms of closed loop motors btw?
03:21 PM CaptHindsight: all depends on the size, speed, load durability and accuracy you wish to achieve
03:22 PM fleeky: so what do you think is the most cost effective closed loop motor
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: fleeky: so we are on the same page, what reach are you imagining and what max load?
03:23 PM dirty_d: there are pretty cheap closed loop steppers
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: BLDC or steppers with an encoder
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: how low cost one can make a motors depends on all the above mentioned factors
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: reliability will be a big one
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: you can make big powerful motors for cheap that don't have to last long
03:24 PM fleeky: https://tropical-labs.com/mechaduino/
03:24 PM fleeky: any better options than mechaduino for encoding
03:25 PM dirty_d: there are integrated closed loop stepper drivers
03:25 PM dirty_d: I have one of these https://www.ebay.com/itm/HBS86H-Hybrid-Servo-Driver-for-Servo-Closed-Loop-Stepper-Motor-Free-shipping
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: lots of those available
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: from toy yo industrial sources
03:26 PM fleeky: dirty_d: integrated is usually more expensive
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: yo/to
03:26 PM dirty_d: I used a normal stepper motor, and added an encoder
03:26 PM fleeky: link broken
03:26 PM dirty_d: https://www.ebay.com/itm/HBS86H-Hybrid-Servo-Driver-for-Servo-Closed-Loop-Stepper-Motor-Free-shipping/283530234741?hash=item4203b80b75:g:H3sAAOSwRlFdFYZZ
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: shop the chinese markets for cheap versions
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: fleeky: the biggest factor is manufacturing volume
03:28 PM fleeky: yeah for price
03:29 PM HexaCube: I always wonder how these closed loops are actually implemented - do you just feed them steps, and they'll try to go back to position x should the position deviate?
03:29 PM HexaCube: or is it more of a "go to position x at speed y"
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: Foxconn built their own 40,000 robots
03:30 PM fleeky: HexaCube: yeah thats compliance
03:30 PM dirty_d: HexaCube, you drive it exactly the same as an open loop stepper driver
03:30 PM fleeky: dynamixel servos have a crap ton of different settings for there closed loop motors
03:30 PM fleeky: pretty cool stuff
03:30 PM HexaCube: because I'm very interested in closed loop setups, but I also have no clue (yet) how I actually implement something like that
03:30 PM dirty_d: it does keep track of the step timing though for control
03:31 PM fleeky: HexaCube: dynamixel servos , while not generic for stepper motors .. do give you an idea of what type of attributes you may want out of a closed loop control scheme
03:31 PM HexaCube: I can get cheap hardware that'll give me very accurate positions through a quadrature signal, but... how do I feed that into, say, Mach3 or LinuxCNC :D
03:31 PM Loetmichel: HexaCube: its relatively simple
03:31 PM Loetmichel: you dont
03:31 PM dirty_d: HexaCube, a mesa card
03:32 PM Loetmichel: you need either a mesa card or (IMHO better) a stand alone servo controller
03:32 PM HexaCube: hmm, but if you have a stand alone servo controller, how do you give the feedback to your CNC controller, for a DRO for instance?
03:32 PM Loetmichel: that just get fed the step/dir or "move" commands and knows best how to achive them without any step loss
03:33 PM HexaCube: or do you just not have that then?
03:33 PM Loetmichel: you dont
03:33 PM HexaCube: booooo
03:33 PM Loetmichel: DROs use no encoder wheels on the motors, they use glass linear encoders
03:33 PM HexaCube: :P
03:33 PM dirty_d: HexaCube, the driver may have a fault output though, if it can't maintain the desired position the fault output can notify linuxcnc that there is a problem
03:33 PM HexaCube: Loetmichel yes, I am talking about linear encoders :P
03:33 PM Loetmichel: dirty_d: yes, indeed
03:34 PM Loetmichel: HexaCube: linear encoders dont work for closed loop servos
03:34 PM Loetmichel: you will get massive oscillations
03:34 PM HexaCube: they do not?
03:34 PM HexaCube: interesting, see I didn't know that yet heh
03:34 PM Loetmichel: because there is ALWAYS play in between the motor shaft and the moving part.
03:34 PM Loetmichel: a closed loop encoder HAS to be hard coupled to the motor shaft
03:35 PM Loetmichel: any play introduced in between the motor shaft and the encoder introduces MASSIVE osciallations
03:36 PM Loetmichel: so unless your drive units are absolutely play (and spring) free they WILL not work with linear encoders as feedback for the closed loop
03:37 PM HexaCube: :( I see
03:38 PM HexaCube: and here I thought i could do something fancy someday
03:38 PM HexaCube: I still need something to try out this AS5311 magnetic encoder IC >:(
03:38 PM XXCoder: good afternoon all heh
03:38 PM sensille: HexaCube: you have one?
03:39 PM HexaCube: no but I need a reason to get one! :P
03:39 PM HexaCube: (or rather the more expensive tape hehe)
03:39 PM sensille: closed loop of course
03:39 PM XXCoder: SpeedEvil: They suspect pollution causes covid to be much worse. thats why new york region is so bad on deaths too.
03:39 PM dirty_d: an advanced enough control algorithm could drive a motor from a linear encoder
03:40 PM dirty_d: that's probably not what a normal servo driver uses though
03:40 PM skunkworks: a linear encoder will work if the backlash is 0 or close
03:41 PM skunkworks: You can have backlash if you use 2 pid's.. One for the encoder on the servo + one for the linear scale.
03:41 PM Loetmichel: HexaCube / skunkworks: i tried to do a linear "glassmassstab" on an 1m long axis with a DC servo once.
03:42 PM Loetmichel: the torsion spring in the 16mm diameter ballscrew is enough that it starts to oscillate at the far end of the travel to the point that the servodrive goes "Schleppfehler"
03:42 PM dirty_d: an encoder on the motor AND on the axis would be interesting
03:42 PM dirty_d: the control controlling the servo could account for backlash and stuff
03:43 PM HexaCube: chances are the quote for the plates i need is way more than I wanna pay anyways
03:43 PM Loetmichel: yeah, thats how its usually done: the encoder on the motor for direct closed loop and the linear one in linuxCNC to check if everything is alright aka no broken drivetrain
03:43 PM dirty_d: and flex
03:43 PM HexaCube: No clue how slow cutting 15mm steel is >:/
03:43 PM skunkworks: it has been done with linuxccnc.. the two pid's were summed - the linear encoder was just I iirc
03:43 PM HexaCube: or 10mm, I dunno what to go for yet :D
03:45 PM skunkworks: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Combining_Two_Feedback_Devices_On_One_Axis
03:46 PM pcw_home: Its been done recently with a step motor driver system with linear scales, it resulted in improved accuracy and better surface finish
03:47 PM sensille: Loetmichel: probably pid is just not the right algorithm for it
03:47 PM pcw_home: for dual feednback systems the linear scale is the slow (mostly I term) part
03:47 PM Loetmichel: sensille: its a priciple problem
03:47 PM sensille: the algorithm can learn how the system reacts
03:48 PM Loetmichel: steppers mitigate that somewhat because they are "stepped" already
03:48 PM sensille: it's just a control system problem
03:48 PM Loetmichel: so if your combined play in the drive train is below 1 step they should not oscillate
03:48 PM Loetmichel: DC or AC motors do however because they have no "steps" to be under
03:48 PM pcw_home: It also works for servo systems, in fact many high end systems use dual feedback
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mouser.com/Sensors/Magnetic-Sensors/Board-Mount-Hall-Effect-Magnetic-Sensors/_/N-6g7qo?P=1z0jmic&Keyword=AS5311&FS=True I'm using these with a 2mm pole pitch mag strip
03:49 PM Loetmichel: pcw_home: the second feedback is not in the loop then though
03:49 PM pcw_home: Yes it is
03:49 PM Loetmichel: just for error correction, not for actually positioning the motor
03:49 PM pcw_home: sometimes with lasewr interferometers
03:50 PM pcw_home: Wrong, this is how many high end systems work (dual feedback)
03:50 PM sensille: closed loop with linear encoders get's more interesting with corexy :)
03:50 PM Loetmichel: you cant really have TWO active inputs on a closed loop. one or the other HAS to be the "master" and the other just be the corrective unit
03:50 PM Loetmichel: or it WILL oscillate IIRC my schooling correctly.
03:50 PM sensille: of course you can
03:51 PM Loetmichel: granted my knowledge is 30 years old. but i dont think physics changed lately ;)
03:51 PM pcw_home: The sum of two PID loops works (there are example of LinuxCNC doing this successfully)
03:52 PM sensille: Loetmichel: that all sounds quite PID-specific
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: who wants to fund my cloud based robots? Pay to play
03:54 PM skunkworks: pcw_home: did you see that the lathe was only set to 6in/s^2 max in the traj section? fixed that and now it is doing 50in/s^2 at about .0002 peak following error. (10 encoder counts)
03:54 PM SpeedEvil: CaptHindsight: By cloud-based do you mean inside a cloud?
03:55 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: no all vapor :)
03:55 PM * Tom_L straps CaptHindsight to a chair on the bot and puts a quarter in the slot
03:55 PM * SpeedEvil imagines a cloud based CNC thing.
03:55 PM SpeedEvil: 'you get one 1cm*1cm*10cm HSS bar and a grinder, and you can use it as long as that lasts'
03:56 PM Loetmichel: pcw_home: anyways: i doubt HexaCube will be able to do even a simple PID on his own. let alone two "stacked" ones
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: would still be local control, but the controller is like a cable TV box
03:56 PM Loetmichel: and he wanted to use the linear encoder witHOUT any second encoder on the motor directly
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: you only get to use what you pay for
03:57 PM pcw_home: skunkworks: Yes, I think I saw that, until LinuxCNC gains a limited jerk TP you will always have acceleration dependent error spikes at the infinite jerk points
03:57 PM skunkworks: right - that is where the peak error is.
03:58 PM pcw_home: Loetmichel: a lot of old CNC systems are exactly that (though they have a velocity mode servo with tachometer feedback)
03:58 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: there is that cloud based cnc/3d/laser/plasma service
03:59 PM skunkworks: I goofed around putting limit3 between the pid and stepgen once.. To try to do 4th order...
04:00 PM skunkworks: Either I didn't know what I was doing or I didn't set it up right..
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: did anyone else have humidity show up recently? Was just 60's/40's and dry and to day is 80's and 130% humidity
04:01 PM skunkworks: (for some reason - I thought that the pid output would be velocity - and I could then limit 'jerk' by setting the accelleration limit.
04:01 PM skunkworks: or maybe it was all a dream
04:02 PM skunkworks: of course with increased following error...
04:02 PM skunkworks: now that I say it out loud - it seems stupid.
04:03 PM pcw_home: Yeah I don't know what the trade-off is (maybe better surface finish vs accuracy)
04:03 PM skunkworks: less thumping..
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: what did that Swiss project do to "improve" Lcnc?
04:05 PM CaptHindsight: something PID related
04:06 PM pcw_home: Jerk limited trajectory planner I think
04:06 PM CaptHindsight: yeah that was it
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: Stuart had a convo with them
04:08 PM pcw_home: Now if you are not doing tangential acceleration (changing the feed rate) limiting jerk makes little difference
04:09 PM CaptHindsight: not sure if he got an answer on how they accomplished a better finish outside of their small machines
04:12 PM pcw_home: I got the impression ( which may well be wrong ) that the TP was done offline
04:16 PM Deejay: gn8
04:22 PM skunkworks: it was humid here
04:22 PM skunkworks: but then it rained
04:45 PM dirty_d: I started working on a jerk limited trajectory planner and quickly came to realize it was going to be a lot harder than i thought
04:51 PM andypugh: I had a go once too. It’s easy with a single axis. But when you bring in path blending and feed override and rotary axes it gets a lot harder.
04:53 PM dirty_d: yea exactly
04:55 PM dirty_d: I wondered if a brute force sort of iterative approach would work
04:55 PM dirty_d: not for live planning, but to do some preprocessing on a path
04:56 PM dirty_d: like start with a path with the set feedrate along all segments of the path
04:56 PM dirty_d: and iteratively make adjustments to bring the constraints within the limits
04:57 PM dirty_d: and then for each segment output the jerk,accel,coast points of each segment
04:58 PM dirty_d: and the control would use that metadata for live control
04:58 PM pcw_home: as long as the feedrate is not changed, the path is CAM determined not controller determined
04:58 PM pcw_home: unless blending is used
04:59 PM dirty_d: pcw_home, I'm not talking about changing the actual path, I mean planning the velocity at every point along that path so that it's completed within the shortest amount of time possible while sticking to jerk/accel constraints
04:59 PM dirty_d: and yea with some rounding of the corners
05:00 PM pcw_home: right but if you don change the feedrate, you are not changing the tangential velocity so jerk limiting does no apply
05:01 PM pcw_home: (that is the jerk is entirely path/CAM determined)
05:02 PM dirty_d: are we talking about a different kind of jerk?
05:03 PM dirty_d: I just mean the derivative of acceleration
05:03 PM pcw_home: Yes
05:10 PM jymmmm: Hey custom buttons... ATTACK, LAUNCH, ICBM, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33064311193.html
05:11 PM jymmmm: waterproof, not sure if oil/coolant proof
05:14 PM jymmmm: What is "CU Wire" ?
05:14 PM skunkworks: copper
05:15 PM enleth: jymmmm: I've got a military surplus keyboard somewhere that must have been pulled out of a vehicle, it's green, extremely heavily built, completely sealed and has a row of buttons above the regular QWERTY keybaord, one of them labeled "WPNS LOCK"
05:15 PM jymmmm: oh, hehe (duh), lol
05:16 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: ty =)
05:16 PM skunkworks: NP - I have those kinda brain farts all the time
05:16 PM jymmmm: enleth: plug it in and see what happens when you press that button =)
05:17 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: Yeah, I have this cheap plastic lightbulb fixture and it says "CU or CUClad only)
05:18 PM jymmmm: skunkworks: It's actually kinda scare to look at, but says UL listed -shrug-
05:18 PM jymmmm: scary*
05:18 PM enleth: jymmmm: it's just a membrane with no electronics inside, the connector is a 30-something pin circular plug with threaded sleeve
05:19 PM jymmmm: enleth: Where's teh fun in that?
05:19 PM enleth: probably in finding a matching socket for less than $200, in case of those connectors
05:20 PM enleth: they're crazy expensive and you always get just one side when you buy surplus
06:32 PM t4nk_freenode: hey, so, if I wanted to start messing around with threaded rods again to build a cnc... would M8 for a rod, and 608-2Z for bearings be ok?
06:33 PM Tom_L: how good a cnc do you want?
06:33 PM t4nk_freenode: *sigh* .. the best there is... costing lesser than lesst :)
06:33 PM t4nk_freenode: ehm, let's say 'a frolic experiment'
06:33 PM Tom_L: that combination doesn't work
06:34 PM XXCoder: ballscrew isnt too expensive nowdays
06:34 PM andypugh: M8 and 608-ZZ sounds like a good start for the worst possibe CNC. Iimagine that’s the aim?
06:34 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
06:34 PM t4nk_freenode: why is that, andy?
06:34 PM Tom_L: cause they're cheap
06:35 PM Tom_L: but if your expectations are __ go ahead
06:35 PM t4nk_freenode: mmzzz
06:35 PM t4nk_freenode: ok, look, I know about wear and such
06:36 PM t4nk_freenode: so in that regar a threaded rod is a no go
06:36 PM andypugh: I am being unfair, but it is a good choice if you want to experiment with a CNC where every compoinent has scope for improvement. I do hope that you will be coupling the motors to the leadscrews with rubber tube and hose clamps?
06:36 PM t4nk_freenode: ehm, and coming to think of it.. one really shouldn;t use it ;)
06:36 PM Tom_L: you wouldn't be the first
06:36 PM Tom_L: or the last
06:37 PM t4nk_freenode: prefbly not, andy, perhaps in the meantime indeed, before improving
06:37 PM andypugh: Threaded rod isn’t _that_ much worse than rolled lead screw.
06:38 PM t4nk_freenode: I was thinking of ordering those alu-thingies with a little play in em to couple perhaps
06:38 PM andypugh: It’s easier to get the taps, at least. (day 6 of my “make a 9/16 x 8 Acme tap)
06:39 PM andypugh: I genuinely could have built a CNC like you describe in half the time this tap has taken.
06:39 PM Tom_L: t4nk_freenode, like the one on the right? http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Couplers.jpg
06:39 PM Tom_L: those will break
06:39 PM t4nk_freenode: but things like coupling and motors is not my priority at all at this point... my biggest problem is construction
06:39 PM Tom_L: start with a plan
06:40 PM andypugh: (but it’a one of those “design and print a collet, design and make a hub for the new grinding wheel on the grinder, also make a U2 to ER20 adaptor collet….)
06:40 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm no good at all, but I'll need to go for it if I want to get something going
06:40 PM andypugh: I imagine this is a hobby project, not a way to make a living?
06:40 PM t4nk_freenode: and my expectations aren't high, but I've seen what I could do with just a couple of dvd steppers and frames
06:40 PM andypugh: Just dive in and start making things move. It’s fun.
06:41 PM t4nk_freenode: I mounted a flexible saft onto that even, and did some moves, drilled holes
06:41 PM Tom_L: it _is_ fun
06:41 PM t4nk_freenode: so... I know it will be fun indeed at least, Tom_L
06:41 PM t4nk_freenode: that's what I wan
06:41 PM t4nk_freenode: t
06:42 PM andypugh: For me making a computer move a machine just never gets old.
06:42 PM Tom_L: i built one on a budget
06:42 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm a bit slow at the mo ;) but yes, those were the ones I meant
06:42 PM andypugh: My first one was on a budget. My most recent one was too. But it was 10x higher.
06:43 PM Tom_L: andypugh, what was that subdir off linuxcnc where the distros are? seem to have forgotten....
06:43 PM andypugh: My Holbrook lathe had more money in Mesa cards than the first one had in cast iron.
06:43 PM andypugh: (www/buildbot).linuxcnc.org/dsts
06:44 PM t4nk_freenode: well, anyhow, I popped the question because I was about to (finally) order some bearings
06:44 PM t4nk_freenode: and I needed assurance
06:44 PM t4nk_freenode: hehe
06:44 PM Tom_L: doesn't seem to be that..
06:45 PM t4nk_freenode: so I figure having a couple of those 8mm hole bearings couldn't hurt in general ey? I'll order a coupple
06:47 PM andypugh: How old are you? How many years of bearing use lie in your future? Buy a pack of 10. Then in 10 years time you will save a whole weekend of waiting. Invest in your future impatience.
06:47 PM t4nk_freenode: euh
06:47 PM t4nk_freenode: I was gonna order 10 ;)
06:48 PM Tom_L: pays to spell it correct
06:48 PM t4nk_freenode: but I'm gonna order from a dutch store this time, don't trust them chinese with this somehow
06:48 PM Tom_L: thanks
06:50 PM Tom_L: t4nk_freenode, it would pay to draw some plans up on paper or cad before you start
06:50 PM t4nk_freenode: you are absolutely right on that
06:51 PM Tom_L: andypugh, how's the tap coming along?
06:53 PM andypugh: Needs a bit more work, but it cuts a thread.
06:54 PM Tom_L: awesome
06:59 PM t4nk_freenode: hey, 10 real 608-2z skf's would cost me 22,40EUR including shipping. Versus... 3,34EUR including shipping for some chinese stuff
07:00 PM t4nk_freenode: that's a huge difference
07:01 PM t4nk_freenode: heh, there are all sorts of reviews on aliexpress talking about inner diameter being off
07:02 PM t4nk_freenode: and 'yes there is some play, but..'
07:02 PM Tom_L: buy a gross and sort thru for the best
07:02 PM skunkworks: did someone say hose clamps? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs-qVQtjOSs
07:02 PM t4nk_freenode: "The quality of the bearings is very poor. Rolling is very poor. Cant use them! "
07:03 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, how ghetto!
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/NAmstpO just passed overhead
07:03 PM Tom_L: good it didn't clip your head
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: funnel is about 200m above the ground
07:04 PM skunkworks: that was before Linuxcnc/Emc
07:04 PM Tom_L: how did you control it?
07:05 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: did that wake you up?
07:05 PM t4nk_freenode: I've run some tests with a 6mm rod before too, tried some different hose types, all in all it felt wrong
07:05 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: tubocnc
07:10 PM skunkworks: Tubocnc was ok for what it was. But it had on constant velocity
07:10 PM skunkworks: no
07:10 PM Tom_L: i used flashcut
07:11 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: wow - really? what was that like?
07:11 PM Tom_L: rs232 interface
07:11 PM skunkworks: we were/are cheap. So the control had to be free. ;)
07:11 PM Tom_L: i cut a few parts with it but it was on a sherline so hard to say which was worse
07:12 PM Tom_L: i ran it on an old laptop
07:13 PM Tom_L: afik they still sell it
07:14 PM skunkworks: yah - some people really like it.
07:15 PM Tom_L: i'm sure it's improved over the years but i'd bet it doesn't compare to linuxcnc
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: was outside installing some AC lines on the opposite side of the building from the storm, looked up as it passed
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: as the siren went off
07:20 PM skunkworks: great timing!
07:20 PM CaptHindsight: i had a closer call a few years ago when one passed right by the building, i was on the Matsuura and i though it was sounding funny...
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: i stopped the machine and the noise didn't stop
07:21 PM CaptHindsight: I looked out the door and it was green rain going sideways
07:21 PM Tom_L: kinda make ya pucker a bit i bet
07:22 PM CaptHindsight: an oh shit moment
07:22 PM Tom_L: i was in one as a kid but none sice
07:22 PM Tom_L: dropped a tree on my granparents' house
07:23 PM CaptHindsight: I've always been inside concrete or brick buildings when they were near
07:23 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: were you in the house?
07:23 PM Tom_L: basement yes
07:28 PM CaptHindsight: 1 inch hail nearby, missed it
07:41 PM ferdna: Tom_L, you here?
11:15 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/HM3UR5sJ5X8