#linuxcnc Logs
May 19 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
03:53 AM struf: hey, is it really worth to buy closed loop (hybrid) steppers for wood router? am i going to struggle with some sort of issues if I buy open loop ones? (and i feel like i will buy closed loop after a while as i see that tendency for different projecs, they are always trying to upgrade motors to closed loop) just don't want to be disappointed with open loops.
03:59 AM struf: p.s. this will be my first build, so has never seen both types of motors in work
03:59 AM struf: * hey, is it really worth to buy closed loop (hybrid) steppers for wood router? am i going to struggle with some sort of issues if I buy open loop ones? (and i feel like i will buy closed loop after a while as i see that tendency for different projecs, they are always trying to upgrade motors to closed loop) just don't want to be disappointed with open loops.
03:59 AM struf: p.s. this will be my first build, so have never seen both types of motors in work
04:19 AM XXCoder: 5 tools broke on last run before end of shift. had to hurry and replace those tools before go home lol
04:29 AM sensille: struf: i'm no expert, but i doubt it, as long as you run the open loop steppers at 50% max torque or so
04:29 AM rmu|w: struf: that depends. if you are pushing your motors beyond their limits, closed loop will tell you and abort the cut (if properly implemented) vs. open loop will just continue and damage the part/tool/whatever
04:32 AM sensille: i would prefer closed loop with linear encoders
04:38 AM struf: so, closed loop mostly helps with saving tools/part/whaterver, and no difference in precision if i'm not pushing beyond their limits, correct?
04:46 AM struf: the issue for me to get closed loops is that delivery goes up to 400-500 $ for 4 closed loop motors, still trying to find place where to buy
04:50 AM struf: the only things i've ordered for now is Mesa 7I96 and RPI 4 :)
04:50 AM sensille: imho there are many sources of error that are potentially bigger then the error from the stepper, but that depends totally on the quality of your build
05:05 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:06 AM XXCoder: hey jt
06:22 AM struf: sensille: rmu|w thanks for your answers
06:25 AM struf: i'd like to go by closed loop path, but that delivery... will try to findout if i could improve logistics here
06:39 AM sensille: struf: how about linear encoders?
06:43 AM struf: that is too complicated for me for now, i'm not sure i know how to build that, it seems that hybrid steppers are easier to build with
06:45 AM struf: need to find some projects with linear encoders... do you know some i could take a look?
06:45 AM sensille: no
06:45 AM sensille: but you can add them later without replacing the steppers
07:37 AM struf: oh, that's much better, i'll try to dig into that then
08:18 AM JT-Cave: I need a new laptop for the wife, nothing runs on XP any more
08:19 AM Loetmichel: JT-Cave: install xubuntu or lubuntu or similar ;)
08:23 AM JT-Cave: can't view the cameras with linux, they only work with IE
08:28 AM JT-Cave: Ryzen 7 or Core i7??? what to pick
08:35 AM skunkworks: the 130 dollar ryzen are performing as good or better than the i7
08:35 AM JavaBean: ryzen 7. be alot longer before its performance is tanked via security mitigations
08:58 AM jymmmm: JT-Cave: Linux +virtualbox + XP
08:59 AM skunkworks: JT-Cave: really? what cameras
09:00 AM JT-Cave: amcrest and one hkvision
09:00 AM jymmmm: JT-Cave: We used to have TB mass storage devices that only had IE interface, the virtualbox allowed anyone to remote into it from their macs,linux boxes without having to have windows installed locally, worked great.
09:00 AM JT-Cave: when the server is not down I can view that web page of all the cameras
09:02 AM JT-Cave: they are proud of the ryzen 7 for sure
09:04 AM jymmmm: You would think $120K storage appliance would have a universal interface, but Noooooooo! bastards
10:57 AM unterhaus_: the more expensive something is, the worse the software.
12:20 PM skunkworks: heh - I think it probably is mostly a bell curve..
01:17 PM jymmmm: I know this is a random question, but any idea how many DC amps you could continously pull thru a 1/16" thick, 1/2" wide, maybe 3" long aluminum bar?
01:20 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: calculating, standby
01:21 PM jymmmm: 14VDC
01:24 PM Loetmichel: about 100A before you run into thermal problems, less if you cant cope with 2V loss on the 3"
01:24 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Where does the 2V loss come in?
01:24 PM pcw_home: bus bar rating is about 40A (30 C rise)
01:25 PM jymmmm: pcw_home: for aluminum? And for copper?
01:25 PM pcw_home: aluminum
01:26 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: and a copper equiv?
01:26 PM Loetmichel: uups, shifted a dot... 0.2V
01:27 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: resistance losses in the alu
01:27 PM Loetmichel: at 100A
01:27 PM pcw_home: Yeah 2V at 100A is 200W = hotsi totsi
01:27 PM Loetmichel: indeed ;)
01:27 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: oh, .2v should be okey. And copper?
01:28 PM Loetmichel: about 30% less losses aka 30% more current at same area
01:28 PM jymmmm: Is there an issue mixing copper and aluminum buss bars?
01:28 PM Loetmichel: yes
01:28 PM Loetmichel: you have to take measures to not have any corrosion
01:29 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: such as?
01:29 PM Loetmichel: there are special greases that can keep moisture out of the contact areas
01:29 PM Loetmichel: or you can crimp it airtight if its an alu wire
01:30 PM Loetmichel: not bus bars
01:30 PM jymmmm: Oh yeah, I'm planning on using this... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005T8ROWA/
01:37 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: wrong stuff
01:37 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: oh?
01:37 PM Loetmichel: search for aluminium anti oxidant compound
01:38 PM Loetmichel: as i said: about 30% more
01:38 PM Loetmichel: and 30% less resistive losses
01:38 PM Loetmichel: and yes. thats the right stuff
01:39 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Think I could peak out at 180A peiodically?
01:39 PM Loetmichel: no problem
01:39 PM Loetmichel: as long as its not continous
01:39 PM Loetmichel: you will run into thermal problems with more than 100A thru alu on that bar
01:39 PM jymmmm: Nah, contonous might be 90A
01:39 PM Loetmichel: at 100A it will already be to hot to touch ,)
01:41 PM Thorhian: I was actually wondering if you guys knew of decent places in the US or online to get wire, especially for wiring up my stepper motors 5A per phase at 36V.
01:42 PM Thorhian: I figure 20AWG solid core wouldn't be good enough for wiring from my PSU's to the steppe rdrivers.
01:42 PM Loetmichel: i am in germany, i would simply buy 5*0,5mm^2 shielded "oelflex" cable
01:42 PM Loetmichel: dont think thats aviable overseas though
01:42 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: if you care... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzPUFcXM89c
01:43 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-18-4-Gray-Stranded-CU-CL3R-Shielded-Security-Cable-57573044/202316270
01:43 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: is that you?
01:44 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: No, it's what I plan on making, but a smaller version
01:44 PM Loetmichel: ah
01:44 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: They have that "by the foot" in the stores
01:44 PM Thorhian: I mean, I'd prefer to have one solid wire to power each stepper driver than wire 4 in one to each driver.
01:44 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: He ran 48V 6KW
01:45 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: you WANT shielded
01:45 PM jymmmm: 6KWH*
01:45 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: But, only connect ONE end of the shield, not both ends.
01:47 PM Thorhian: But why would i use 4 18awg wire to deliver power to a single stepper driver. I already have 18/4 wires going from my stepper drivers to motors.
01:49 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: I misread the question. Why can't you just use 12ga stranded household wire?
01:50 PM Thorhian: I'd have to check to see if the wire would fit the terminals on the drivers. I guess I could.
01:50 PM Thorhian: I'm still a noob when it comes to electrical wiring, hence my questions.
01:51 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: could use ferrels too
01:52 PM jymmmm: Thorhian: No worries, we were all new once =)
01:52 PM Thorhian: Thanks jymmmm! I'll look into ferrules.
01:54 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I'm planning on 4S1P to build a battery and/or solar generator (I hate that term)
01:54 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: do those cells can do 180A without damage?
01:54 PM Loetmichel: they dont look like it
01:55 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Ok, the modules are two cells in parallel (120A) continous
01:55 PM Loetmichel: hmm
01:55 PM Loetmichel: interesting
01:55 PM Loetmichel: i wouldnt have thought they could
01:56 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I plan on making them 4S so that should give me 14.4V@60A contonous, 90A burst
01:56 PM Loetmichel: that sounds nice
01:57 PM jymmmm: 14.4 @ 864WH
01:57 PM jymmmm: not bad for $100
01:58 PM * Loetmichel has to be talking... the hexacopter i built has 6 2kW peak motors... and a single 4s 2300mAh Lifepo
01:58 PM jymmmm: plus BMS, etc
01:58 PM Loetmichel: those cells can take a beating though
01:58 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: but that's burst too
01:58 PM Loetmichel: yeah
01:58 PM Loetmichel: hovering it needs about 200W combined
01:59 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: ah ok
01:59 PM Loetmichel: but when you full throttle it you see the 13.2V nominal voltage drop down to 6V ;)
01:59 PM Loetmichel: on the data logger ;)
02:00 PM Tom_itx: then a big kablooie?
02:00 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I'm thinking if I make this battery (with BMS), then could use a 1000W inverter, or even tap into/plug into something like this https://www.amazon.com/Portable-FlashFish-Generator-Adventure-Emergency/dp/B07T48L6CF
02:00 PM Tom_itx is now known as Tom_L
02:02 PM Loetmichel: ... at about 500A ;)
02:02 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: no, but only for a couple seconds, beacause then you have to throttle down because you cant se the model any more
02:03 PM Loetmichel: see
02:03 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: 1.8KG battery + 2.7KG box
02:03 PM Loetmichel: it lifts off with nearly 6G
02:03 PM Loetmichel: :-)
02:03 PM Loetmichel: sounds about right
02:03 PM Loetmichel: do you know the intended application for those cells, jymmmm?
02:04 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: IIRC, an electric buss
02:04 PM jymmmm: bus
02:04 PM Loetmichel: bus as in omnibus?
02:04 PM Loetmichel: aka people mover?
02:04 PM jymmmm: as in people mover
02:05 PM Loetmichel: should be able to stand peaks then and high discharge rates
02:05 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: specs at bottom https://batteryhookup.com/products/new-lg-chem-n2-1-3-7v-120ah-cell-module
02:05 PM Loetmichel: point is that most foil pack cells are not meant to take that kind of torture
02:05 PM Loetmichel: if they are: good
02:06 PM Loetmichel: if not you will not have much fun with your "generator"
02:06 PM Loetmichel: s/much/long
02:06 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: yeah, I'm doing my research, thus the alum questions, as that's what he used.
02:07 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: But he talked about usng 3/4" square aluminum tubing, hense 1/16" wall
02:07 PM * Loetmichel would just have used some 2mm alu sheets, make longer tabs/cell connectors of it and used his little spot welder to do the connection
02:08 PM Loetmichel: maybe put the yellow connector into a bucket of water to cool it
02:08 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: he tried spot welding, they didn't stay on securely
02:08 PM Loetmichel: he did it with nickel tabs
02:08 PM jymmmm: true
02:08 PM Loetmichel: i would do it with thick aluminium
02:09 PM Loetmichel: spot welding gets tricky if the two metals are grossly different in thickness
02:09 PM jymmmm: I dont have a spot welder, hense the nechanical fastening
02:09 PM jymmmm: mechanical*
02:09 PM Loetmichel: youi can make a cheap one pretty easily
02:09 PM Tom_L: you got a car battery
02:09 PM Loetmichel: only needs a bunch of big caps, a 100W bulb and some sturdy wires
02:09 PM Loetmichel: no electronics needed ;)
02:10 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I have 8 microwave transformers =)
02:10 PM Loetmichel: just have to experiment with the amount of farrad youi need for those 100 joules or whatever works best
02:10 PM jymmmm: oh wait, nm, I need high amperage not votlage
02:11 PM Loetmichel: its simple: charge the caps to 12 or 24V (can go as high as 80) via the bulb, then discharge thru the welding leads
02:12 PM Loetmichel: the bulb prevents any high current flow from the voltage source, so the caps can discharge freely
02:12 PM Loetmichel: and then they need a moment to recharge, wait for the bulb(s) to get dark, weld again
02:12 PM Loetmichel: and so on ;)
02:13 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: If I was going to make a bunch of these, then I'd look at just getting a spot welder. Mechanical just seems brain dead simple for now.
02:13 PM Loetmichel: yeah, its not as well connected though
02:13 PM Loetmichel: unless you tightn those bolts to insane torque
02:14 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: it's a $100 battery, I'm just doing the best I can with what I got =)
02:16 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: take one of the MOTs, get rid of the HV winding, wind some 5 turns with welding cable instead, install a foot switch, put copper tips on the ends of the welding cables. done spot welder
02:16 PM Loetmichel: experiment a bit with tip diameter and windings on the MOT for best result: voila, cheap battery spot welder!
02:17 PM Loetmichel: s/MOT/Microvave transformer
02:17 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I saw that video too =) I think he used 8ga solid copper for the "tips"
02:19 PM jymmmm: brb
02:28 PM jymmmm: back
02:49 PM CaptHindsight: does Renishaw make it difficult to find encoder specs?
02:52 PM Rab: jymmmm, Loetmichel steered you in the right direction with the NOALOX®, but I wanted to mention that the contact surfaces should be burnished before applying the compound for minimal resistance.
02:53 PM jymmmm: Rab: Yeah, I was thinking 400 grit to scuff things up
02:54 PM Rab: That's why the conductive carbon grease is no good: the carbon isn't as conductive as the metal, so you're introducing a high-resistance interface which will heat up rather than promoting conductivity.
02:54 PM Rab: Plus I suspect there's a chance of the grease migrating and causing a short.
02:58 PM perry_j1987: hows it going guys.
03:13 PM perry_j1987: that good eh?
03:14 PM jymmmm: Rab: I was aware of the potential galvonic effect, but the guy (in the video) used the conductive grease, it's all that I was aware of, But I know better than to "trust" YT DIY videos at face value =) Thank you btw =)
03:18 PM perry_j1987: trying to figure out what this random insert is
03:18 PM perry_j1987: threading insert with 1 51S0 ER written on the side of it
03:18 PM perry_j1987: cant find any info on it
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: perry_j1987: post a pic, it might help
03:20 PM perry_j1987: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71U2g3tXsEL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
03:20 PM perry_j1987: second from top
03:24 PM CaptHindsight: could be Chinese anything
03:30 PM Rab: perry_j1987, I believe they are these, and I believe the magic keywords are "11er" and "size 11": https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07WVTXNS2
03:33 PM perry_j1987: the one i have has one extra step off the V
03:34 PM perry_j1987: so the V threading portion and then a flat and then steps down to a second flat
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: does anyone make a smaller encoder head than https://www.posic.com/EN/linear-encoder-id1102l.html
03:39 PM perry_j1987: whats the project CaptHindsight
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: tiny short travel measurement
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: 1um res over ~1cm
03:42 PM perry_j1987: what are you measuring
03:42 PM perry_j1987: how accurate do you need
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: linear travel
03:44 PM CaptHindsight: + - 0.5um
03:44 PM jdh: lvdt stuck on the side?
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://xeryon.com/products/mini-linear-actuators/
03:46 PM jdh: that's pretty cool.
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: and have a bunch of 7i77's that take quadrature input for encoder feedback
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: so 5V quadrature output would be handy
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: but it's never that simple unless you can use a big glass or mag scale
03:50 PM pcw_home: maybe one of the AMS magnetic encoder chips
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: yeah looking that way
03:51 PM jymmmm: laptop locked up, lost conversation if anyone replied =)
03:51 PM Deejay: gn8
03:51 PM pcw_home: not sure how heavy the mag strip is
03:51 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I found more data on those cells: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33036157794.html
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: I have a few grams to spare
03:52 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: Grams??? O_o
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: actually ~10N to spare
03:53 PM jymmmm: 10 Newtons??/
03:54 PM jymmmm: 10 newton grams per hp ?
03:58 PM perry_j1987: need to bring one of my calipers home
03:58 PM perry_j1987: hate not having a set here too heh
03:59 PM jdh: I have 5 sets of HF type ones scattered around
03:59 PM perry_j1987: i recently moved so geting everything set back up everywhere
03:59 PM jdh: they measure to the same half-thou that my mitutoyo at work does
04:00 PM jdh: I've been buying SPI ones at work lately. not as crap quality as HF but way cheaper than Mit.
04:01 PM perry_j1987: is there any rhyme or reason to numbering tools
04:02 PM perry_j1987: or just whatever i want them to be
04:02 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lg-chem-batteries-from-battery-hookup-5-94-kwh.4592/
04:03 PM jymmmm: perry_j1987: numbering? 1, 2, 3 ???
04:03 PM perry_j1987: aye
04:03 PM jymmmm: perry_j1987: oh, you mean tooling?
04:04 PM jymmmm: like an automatic tool changer?
04:04 PM perry_j1987: i just got my first set of indexed lathe tools
04:04 PM perry_j1987: working on setting them up in fusion 360 tool library now
04:04 PM jymmmm: maybe in priority of use?
04:08 PM CaptHindsight: what do those cheap magnetic Chinese encoders have for output?
04:17 PM CaptHindsight: AS5306 15μm resolution
04:18 PM CaptHindsight: low cost
04:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://ams.com/documents/20143/36005/M3-L%20Linear%20Actuator_PB000116_1-00.pdf
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: 0.5 μm resolution
04:22 PM CaptHindsight: 6 mm of travel
04:30 PM SpeedEvil: Ah yes.
04:30 PM SpeedEvil: From the low cost $1K pile
04:30 PM CaptHindsight: AS5311
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ams/AS5311-TS_EK_AB/AS5311-AB-ND/3828353
04:31 PM CaptHindsight: the adapter board is giant
04:33 PM SpeedEvil: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tdk-electronics-inc/B54101H1020A001/495-77575-ND/10257751 somewhat related
04:34 PM SpeedEvil: It would be neat to use in buttons as they suggest.
04:34 PM SpeedEvil: But it's $100 per
04:59 PM pink_vampire: hi, I played with tool changing, and now I can't see the "cone" on the linuxcnc 3d plot, any idea how to get it back?
05:02 PM pink_vampire: SOLVED - all you need is to load the default tool "99999" with T1 then M6
05:04 PM SpeedEvil: :)
05:06 PM pink_vampire: I need to add few buttons to the gui, 100% feed, slow feed, setup feed
05:26 PM andypugh: Now, the question is, will it actually work? https://photos.app.goo.gl/BnTyM29KmcLVgdtJ7
05:33 PM SpeedEvil: :)
05:52 PM Tom_L: skunkworks,
05:52 PM Tom_itx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0OLIth_cOI&feature=youtu.be
05:53 PM Tom_L: nothing sketchy about that setup
06:38 PM andypugh: Tom_L: It’s good to see a proffesional at work.
06:56 PM Tom_L: just the results of others' good efforts
07:15 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: quadrature counter using FPGA dev board? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8lezpJhfAo
07:16 PM Tom_L: yes?
07:17 PM CaptHindsight: Tom_L: Xilinx or?
07:18 PM Tom_L: spartan6
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: don't recognize the board is all
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: ah thanks
07:18 PM Tom_L: some chinese thing
07:18 PM CaptHindsight: $50 kinda albaba
07:19 PM CaptHindsight: I see a bunch of them, always wondered how well they are made
07:20 PM Tom_L: this one seems fine
07:29 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/XC6SLX9-Starter-Board-Xilinx-Spartan-6-FPGA/163908326230?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180105095853%26meid%3Da2f2bcb5cf844016ad981536ce21bb18%26pid%3D100903%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D20%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D163908326230%26itm%3D163908326230%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2510209%26brand%3DXilinx&_trksid=p2510209.c100903.m5276
07:30 PM Tom_L: i didn't give near that for it though
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: i can't find any 1mm/pole magnetic encoder tape in stock in the US
07:40 PM norias: #pandemicproblems
07:44 PM CaptHindsight: well hidden but there
07:45 PM CaptHindsight: $0.79/cm
08:08 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: Awesome!
08:08 PM skunkworks: I resemble that work...
08:08 PM skunkworks: pcw_home:
08:10 PM skunkworks: DEADBAND = .00001
08:10 PM skunkworks: P = 6000
08:10 PM skunkworks: I = 500000
08:10 PM skunkworks: D = 20
08:10 PM skunkworks: FF0 = 0
08:10 PM skunkworks: FF1 = 2
08:10 PM skunkworks: FF2 = 0.04
08:10 PM skunkworks: BIAS = 0
08:12 PM skunkworks: that's alot of I
08:12 PM Tom_L: way cover isn't quite as fancy as yours :)
08:12 PM skunkworks: eh - some times I apply myself more than other times...
08:13 PM pcw_mesa: "I" has to be pretty large to be responsive
08:14 PM skunkworks: It is sometimes a little grumbly at rest - but it is only popping back and forth .00002
08:15 PM skunkworks: I guess I could raise the deadband
08:15 PM pcw_mesa: man, I'm tired of eating at home...
08:15 PM skunkworks: heh
08:15 PM skunkworks: We pick up a lot
08:15 PM skunkworks: 'carry out'
08:16 PM pcw_mesa: Yeah we do too but it's not quite the same
08:19 PM pcw_mesa: I think you could have a pretty jitter free tuning if the PID gains were lowered when very close (rather than just zeroed like deadband does)
08:20 PM skunkworks: Hmm - I should try that..
08:21 PM skunkworks: kinda like the steppers that lower current when no motion
08:22 PM skunkworks: I don't think you could do a step change though..
08:22 PM skunkworks: atleast playing with tuning on the fly...
08:25 PM pcw_mesa: Maybe lincurve driven by error
08:27 PM pcw_mesa: so when its within a few counts it gets "softer"
08:38 PM veegee: Is this a price error or are those CAT forklifts really $750? https://interglobealliance.com/collections/lpg-forklift
08:38 PM veegee: If they are, I'll buy them. All of them
08:41 PM SpeedEvil: 'Finance: $749 lease to own 5 years
08:42 PM SpeedEvil: 749/mo seems high
08:43 PM SpeedEvil: Or maybe not
08:51 PM jymmmm: $44,940
08:52 PM SpeedEvil: Minus finance risk, minus ...
08:53 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: If I have a BMS connected to the cells, is there anyway to monitor the battery at the same time?
08:53 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: I'm just wondering how do you repo a forklift?
08:54 PM SpeedEvil: Bigger forklift
08:54 PM jymmmm: maybe =)
08:54 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: Can a smaller forklift outrun a bigger one?
08:56 PM jymmmm: "On the next episode of forklift wars...."
08:58 PM jymmmm: The best I can figure it, I can make a 4S 60A battery (cells, bms, connectors) for $160, 888WH comes to about $0.18 per WH
08:58 PM SpeedEvil: what cells?
08:59 PM SpeedEvil: you should probably add some for case.
09:00 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: these https://batteryhookup.com/products/new-lg-chem-n2-1-3-7v-120ah-cell-module?variant=31947081154692
09:01 PM SpeedEvil: Oh - neat
09:01 PM jymmmm: SpeedEvil: you can watch the video on his 2 part build
09:02 PM SpeedEvil: International shipping would be entirely ridiculous
09:02 PM SpeedEvil: I got 10kWh or so of new cells.
09:02 PM jymmmm: UK ?
09:03 PM SpeedEvil: yes
09:03 PM jymmmm: IDK, add to cart and find out =)
09:03 PM SpeedEvil: I have enough cells I have not yet put into service
09:03 PM SpeedEvil: - cycled a few 100 times with good results
09:04 PM SpeedEvil: - no measurale capacity loss
09:04 PM jymmmm: I did some research, they are $500/ea from china. I believe these came from Chevy Volt
09:04 PM SpeedEvil: Pretty decent bargain.
09:05 PM jymmmm: Yeah, if I can mount the cut tabs
09:05 PM SpeedEvil: I'm ending up making something close to packs of 4s4p with independant BMS and then connecting fused and otherwise protected to a larger array.
09:06 PM SpeedEvil: Aiming at something I can take a nailgun to and nothing much will happen
09:06 PM jymmmm: solar charging?
09:06 PM SpeedEvil: Or grid
09:06 PM SpeedEvil: solar 8-9 months of the year
09:06 PM jymmmm: I haven't figured out a charger scheme yet.
09:07 PM jymmmm: I'd like to use solar as needed (portable), but cna't here due to 50ft trees
09:08 PM jymmmm: But a 888WH battery for $160 seems good
09:09 PM SpeedEvil: It is considerably less annoying to attach than 100 10Wh ones
09:09 PM jymmmm: haha, true
09:11 PM jymmmm: 30mm x 100 x 300 @ 4lbs (1.9KG) not too bad
09:11 PM jymmmm: small tool box
09:22 PM pink_vampire: Tom_L: why to you have copper pipe on your mill?
09:23 PM veegee: Guys I have something very horrific to admit
09:24 PM veegee: I don't know if this makes me an evil person or not but
09:24 PM veegee: People put out spring loaded kill mouse traps
09:24 PM veegee: I use the "humane" ones that just trap them with a door and don't hurt them. Then I usually keep them as pets in a little cage
09:25 PM veegee: I caught one this time with a badly wounded leg.
09:25 PM veegee: So I decided to euthanize it. I put it in a glass bottle, about 1L capacity, with a plastic cap. Drilled 2 holes in the cap
09:26 PM veegee: Then I pressed it against my argon tank and opened the valve
09:26 PM veegee: He didn't suffer. It was instantaneous
09:29 PM veegee: They do the same thing in research labs everywhere, but with CO2 instead, but doesn't change anything
09:29 PM Tom_L: pink_vampire, it's a water cooled spindle :)
09:42 PM veegee: Oh yay research shows argon is less aversive and nociceptive than CO2 for euthanasia of rats
09:43 PM veegee: Makes me feel a bit better
09:46 PM W1N9Zr0: veegee: relatively humane welding gas to use, compared to say oxy-acetylene and a lighter
09:46 PM SpeedEvil: Oxy acetylene explosion would be fastest
09:47 PM veegee: The idea is to evoke the minimum amount of stress response
09:51 PM Rab: veegee, high CO2 causes a suffocation response. Nitrogen doesn't. Argon, I don't know about.
09:53 PM veegee: Sigh. Poor little mouse. They're just like us in so many ways. They even yawn. So cute when they eat or sleep
09:58 PM SpeedEvil: If you can physically disrupt the brain in less time than it takes for a neural impulse to cross it once, you pretty much can't have 'pain'
10:02 PM veegee: Yes that's true, but an action potential can travel faster than 100m/s
10:03 PM veegee: Also in humans, very difficult to outright destroy every part of the brain at the same time. Gun shot won't do it. Well maybe an .700 nitro express round
10:10 PM JavaBean: why not a DU 50-cal at mach 6.... suck the brain out through one of the openings like a slurry
10:13 PM JavaBean: my grandfather used to work on a tank range... the rounds that they fired through tanks were only a lil bit bigger, turned carcusses loaded into the tank into slushies and sucked/blew them through the openings created
10:19 PM Tom_L: the things that come up in this channel....
10:19 PM Tom_L: all over a mouse
10:20 PM * JavaBean had thought he was in #electronics.... /me says oops
10:21 PM Tom_L: crippled mouse to tank range. not sure what happened between
10:22 PM * JavaBean thought he was in #electronics, only read ve egee's last comment before saying that
10:24 PM veegee: The #electronics channel is more into computer hardware than real electronics like working with discrete components and 4000 series ICs for example
10:25 PM tiwake: CaptHindsight: can I buy and print on blank water transfer film? or is that a special process?
10:25 PM * JavaBean usually tunes in when they aren't even that close to topic
10:25 PM tiwake: I can't seem to find a place that sells just blank water transfer film
10:26 PM tiwake: oh here
10:27 PM tiwake: https://www.watertransferprintfilm.com/blank-hydrographic-film
10:30 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: whats the plan? Water transfer and then cleacoat?
10:31 PM tiwake: yeah
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: be sure to dry it before clearcoating
10:33 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: how thick is the aluminum?
10:34 PM tiwake: iunno, sheet
10:34 PM CaptHindsight: the cleacoats only flex so much before they break
10:35 PM tiwake: alright
10:36 PM CaptHindsight: test some on a blank to be sure the one you want to use works
10:36 PM tiwake: sure
10:38 PM tiwake: it should be rather sturdy when I'm done
10:39 PM tiwake: bunch of welding and stuff
10:39 PM tiwake: won't be that big either
10:39 PM tiwake: anyway
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: tiwake: I did a lot of work with Bally, Midway, Williams, Taito in the past
11:28 PM CaptHindsight: they were all in the Chicago area
11:32 PM CaptHindsight: a buddy of mine did the redesign of the Pacman arcades back around 2004
11:36 PM CaptHindsight: and also https://www.designintegrity.com/project/production-implementation/
11:39 PM CaptHindsight: Namco remade lots of old arcades