#linuxcnc Logs
May 13 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
01:10 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
01:30 AM Deejay: moin
01:32 AM CheeseShirt: Loetmichel: I drew a smiley face on mine
01:33 AM Loetmichel: i usually go shopping with a 3dprinted mask. just forgot it at the company yesterday
01:33 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17785&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
01:46 AM sensille: also discourages small talk
02:00 AM CheeseShirt is now known as GravySailboat
02:02 AM GravySailboat is now known as PickledGurki
02:14 AM PickledGurki is now known as UncentedChange
02:54 AM rmu|w: i got space invaders on the mask
03:16 AM Loetmichel: *hrrrgh* Making version 4 of a bracket for PCB/closing an enclosure... MAAN do i hate it if you have no room to work with... move a PCB to get a plug in: now the other side dosent fit with the second PCB and the shielding. Also version3 was 2mm to long so the side panels didnt close properly. Prototypes are a hassle. ;(
05:11 AM JT-Cave: morning
06:39 AM Tom_L: morning
06:39 AM Tom_L: more rain.
06:45 AM Tom_L: 50°
06:45 AM JT-Cave: yea been raining since yesterday here too
06:46 AM JT-Cave: 52°F and the 4.5' tall tomatoes went uncovered last night
06:46 AM Tom_L: nice
06:46 AM Tom_L: hard to believe they're that tall already
06:46 AM JT-Cave: some of the cherry tomatoes are getting ripe
06:46 AM JT-Cave: been growing them all winter lol
06:46 AM Tom_L: 2nd year?
06:47 AM Tom_L: or just seedlings since then
06:47 AM JT-Cave: yea the plants are from last year
06:47 AM Tom_L: i didn't know you could do that
06:47 AM JT-Cave: I kept cutting the tops off and starting new plants
06:52 AM Tom_L: should get a pi tomorrow
07:04 AM JT-Cave: cool
07:09 AM JT-Cave: the mobility base for the jointer is due to show up with the grease gun tomorrow
07:10 AM Tom_L: nice
07:10 AM Tom_L: you're gettin quite a wood shop setup
07:10 AM JT-Cave: yea it's like I have an aircraft carrier stuck in the middle of the shop lol
07:10 AM Tom_L: is it in the newest building?
07:10 AM JT-Cave: I'm really enjoying working with wood
07:10 AM JT-Cave: yea
07:11 AM Tom_L: keepin metal and wood separate
07:11 AM JT-Cave: I have a 36" diameter red oak to mill up
07:11 AM Tom_L: next will be a lumber saw
07:11 AM JT-Cave: I do fabrication in the big shop and machining in the other shop
07:12 AM JT-Cave: my buddy up the hill has a bandsaw mill so no need for me to have one, I just buy some blades and cut when I want to
07:12 AM Tom_L: is he the one you made the log hauler for?
07:12 AM JT-Cave: yea
07:12 AM Tom_L: or is that yours
07:13 AM JT-Cave: we made it for him
07:13 AM JT-Cave: he has some property with lots of trees
07:13 AM Tom_L: you've got a couple
07:13 AM JT-Cave: of trees yea
07:14 AM JT-Cave: the big log I'll have to build an Alaskan sawmill to get it down to 28" so it will fit in the bandsaw mill
07:14 AM Tom_L: is it better to cut the log green or let it season then cut it?
07:15 AM JT-Cave: you paint the ends and cut it green
07:15 AM Tom_L: keeps the sap from leaking out?
07:16 AM JT-Cave: keeps the ends from checking (cracking from drying out faster than the rest)
07:16 AM Tom_L: hnn
07:17 AM JT-Cave: http://purelivingforlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/granberg-chainsaw-mill.jpg
07:17 AM JT-Cave: gotta build something like that
07:19 AM Tom_L: yeah i knew what you were talking about
07:20 AM Tom_L: you probably want it fairly light
07:22 AM JT-Cave: a lot of the ones you see on putube and the granburg are adjustable but I don't see the need for that, I just have a 36" bar for the MS391
07:23 AM Tom_L: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200729943_200729943
07:23 AM Tom_L: can you build one for that?
07:24 AM JT-Cave: well no, but that's for a 30" bar
07:24 AM Tom_L: that one only goes to 30"
07:24 AM Tom_L: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200729944_200729944
07:24 AM JT-Cave: looks like a chinese knock off of the granburg
07:25 AM Tom_L: yup
07:25 AM JT-Cave: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200729944_200729944
07:26 AM Tom_L: same one
07:26 AM Tom_L: gotta run
07:26 AM JT-Cave: https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200729944_200729944
07:57 AM Loetmichel: hmm, $me just got a new toy: chinese 40W C02 laser cutter/engraver. but the software is gruesome. Anybody knows a way to get something useable (firmware/PC software) on that machine? Preferably one that can read DXFs?
09:29 AM skunkworks: pcw_mesa: this? setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.packet-read-timeout 60
10:27 AM Rab: Loetmichel, something like this? https://laserweb.yurl.ch/
10:27 AM Rab: (Never used it)
10:31 AM unterhaus: i love it when recipes have unobtainable ingredients
10:50 AM dirty_d: this is amazing `nc towel.blinkenlights.nl 23`
11:59 AM Loetmichel: Rab: got it already, thanks:
11:59 AM Loetmichel: [17:50] <Loetmichel> ha, the K40 whisperer is very useable compared to the chinse crap laser cutter sofware with dongle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcXoe3QBUzA
12:26 PM CaptHindsight is now known as Soup4aHat
01:08 PM andypugh: syyl: What do you think of this? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303523599243 I am tempted by it as a project.
01:15 PM veegee: I have a bunch of microwave transformers and high current MOSFETs and gate drivers and all that, but if I just wanted to buy a spot welder (primarily for battery tab spot welding), what should I get?
01:15 PM veegee: Any recommendations?
01:16 PM veegee: I'd rather not build a spot weld control circuit right now. Have a lot of power tool packs to rebuild
01:17 PM andypugh: I have looked at it briefly, but not taken it very far.
01:17 PM sync: andypugh: you are probably better off getting a chinaclone with all the attachments
01:17 PM andypugh: I think I concluded I could get cloned battery packs cheaper than buying the cells
01:18 PM andypugh: sync: I have a thing for old machine tools though, built to a quality not to a price. I think Alexander built them under license from Deckel.
01:18 PM andypugh: It is quite expensive, but I have the money.
01:19 PM sync: yes but it also lacks features
01:19 PM andypugh: What features?
01:20 PM sync: the adjustable spindle cartridge for one
01:20 PM sync: rene has one of the chinese ones and it is not bad at all
01:21 PM andypugh: Well, I was considering the spindle cartridge as a possible application for this frameless motor that I have...
01:21 PM andypugh: (The only reason I want one is that it sees that all the cool kids have one)
01:22 PM sync: just get one that works out of the box then
01:25 PM andypugh: I just don’t seem to _want_ the Chinese ones. I can’t quite explain it.
01:25 PM veegee: andypugh there are a lot of fake cells. Also, I have a good supplier of genuine cells and I prefer to change up the chemistry a bit. I like to use LG HG2 for higher capacity
01:27 PM veegee: I purchase quantities of 100 18650 cells at a time. I get significant discounts and I can be sure they're genuine cells
01:27 PM veegee: Also not stored improperly for long periods. Makes a huge difference
01:28 PM veegee: 100 cells for like $400. Definitely can't match that in clone battery packs in any way
01:39 PM Soup4aHat: I have some ~10 year old Rockwell cordless drill I loved, they were NiCad packs, I might revive them with new LiIon packs
01:41 PM Soup4aHat: have to print some new holders for the cells
02:31 PM Soup4aHat: are newer cordless tools any better or worse than older tools?
02:31 PM Soup4aHat: except for the batteries
03:16 PM unterhaus: brushless is better than brushed
03:17 PM unterhaus: I think the brushed tools are going away
03:17 PM Rab: Soup4aHat, they tend to have brushless motors. I'm not sure whether those are better in terms of sheer power, but I believe they are generally smaller, lighter, and more efficient. (And from the manufacturer's perspective, cheaper.)
03:18 PM unterhaus: brushless go through batteries more slowly, that was the main thing I noticed about them. I have 2 almost identical drills, the brushless lasts a lot longer between charges
03:19 PM Rab: They have an electronic controller which adds a complex failure point. I don't know that there has been an epidemic of e.g. dead cordless drills, though.
03:23 PM Soup4aHat: Rockwell did a great job of planned obsolescence with their Nicad chargers
03:23 PM Rab: I've been messing with a BLDC motor from a Stihl cordless chainsaw recently, trying to get it dialed in with a VESC. It seems to be running reliably now, with pretty good torque from 24V@15A.
03:23 PM Soup4aHat: you could easily kill a battery by leaving it in the charger overnight
03:24 PM Rab: It's very light and compact, for the power output. I'm hoping to use it to drive an ER16 spindle, putting relatively little weight on the gantry.
03:24 PM Soup4aHat: they had a lifetime warranty on the batteries but you had to register them within 30 of purchase
03:24 PM Soup4aHat: which didn't happen
03:24 PM Soup4aHat: 30 days
03:28 PM Rab: 24V@15A is a mere 360W, but I have a pair of server PSUs set up for 24V@100A...probably more than the VESC can take.
04:15 PM Thorhian: Anyone have any recomendations on where to get a belt and pulleys for my spindle motor and spindle?
04:21 PM Rab: Thorhian, what sort of belt do you have in mind?
04:22 PM Rab: Like v-belt, or poly-v, or something else?
04:29 PM Deejay: gn8
04:40 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, sdp-si dot com
04:42 PM Tom_L: i burned up v belts on my sherline spindle like crazy until i swapped the pulleys out for timing pulleys
05:03 PM andypugh: Thorhian: Which country are you in?
05:09 PM skunkworks: gave up finding something better and ordered another nexus 7..
06:05 PM Thorhian: Sorry guys I had to leave.
06:06 PM Thorhian: Rab: I was thinking a V-Belt or one of those belts with the horizontal ridges, but I just am not sure what to go with or where to get them along with pulleys for them.
06:07 PM Thorhian: andypugh: I am in the USA.
06:07 PM Thorhian: Tom_L: I'll check that out. What is the difference between a "pulley" and a "timing pulley"?
06:08 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Z_Motor_Mount1.jpg
06:08 PM Tom_L: those are timing pulleys
06:08 PM andypugh: In that case the advice given was probably valid. Or McMaster Carr. In the UK I would have suggested BearingBoys
06:09 PM Tom_L: i recall him saying he was on the right side of the pond :)
06:10 PM Thorhian: All I know about McMaster Carr is that they tend to be way more expensive than even decently priced USA goods. I'd shop at Misumi well before I'd go to McMaster.
06:10 PM andypugh: Timing pulleys have ribs at 90 degrees to the belt motion, so they keep a fixed ratio and never slip. If they do slip, they are totally ruined.
06:10 PM Thorhian: I see, thank you Tom and Andy!
06:10 PM andypugh: I think poly-V wins for absolute max torque, though.
06:11 PM andypugh: Those have many ribs parallel to the belt motion.
06:11 PM Thorhian: Yeah that's what I was looking at a bit, just wasn't sure what they were called andy.
06:12 PM andypugh: (My very expensive lathe from 1965 has a big Poly-V from the gearbox to the spindle, and no gearing in the head at all. That’s how much torque those can do)
06:14 PM Thorhian: Interesting. You can use them without slipping right? Any advice for installing belts in general, especially to ensure proper tension?
06:15 PM andypugh: A photo of both: Poly-V as main spindle drive, and a small timing belt to the spindle encoder: https://photos.app.goo.gl/V76hf1Pk2gurf7YF8
06:16 PM Thorhian: Why would I choose a timing pulley over the parallel ribbed belts?
06:17 PM Thorhian: I'm just wondering what the main differences and uses of them are.
06:17 PM andypugh: It depends on the application.
06:19 PM andypugh: You use a timing belt if the timing of the pulleys matters (for example between a servo and a leadscrew, or between a spindle and encoder). A timing belt is used to transfer position. Conversely a flat belt, vee-belt or poly-vee belt is used to transmit power.
06:19 PM Thorhian: I see.
06:20 PM andypugh: There is some overlap, bit oinly one way. You can use a timing belt to transmit power, but you can’t really use the other belts to transmit position.
06:22 PM skunkworks: Belts - That ain't no belt..http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200513_181627.jpg
06:27 PM andypugh: 18?
06:27 PM andypugh: You know they are meant to be mathced sets?
06:28 PM skunkworks: it is what it came with..
06:28 PM skunkworks: that is 50hp
06:28 PM andypugh: My lathe and your CNC mill were made in the same year, approxomately. I suspect the poly-vee was super new tech and not yet available in K&T size
06:28 PM skunkworks: This is a 73' lathe
06:29 PM skunkworks: cincinati
06:29 PM skunkworks: 73 year - not inches ;)
06:29 PM andypugh: What the heck is going on in the bottom left of the photo?
06:29 PM skunkworks: *feet
06:29 PM infornography: 73 foot
06:30 PM infornography: :o
06:30 PM skunkworks: hydraulic inductors? is that what they call them?
06:30 PM andypugh: Hollow springs full of fluid?
06:30 PM skunkworks: dad thinks it is so the clutches don't turn on instantly.
06:30 PM skunkworks: yes
06:31 PM andypugh: Wild!
06:31 PM andypugh: I am pretty sure you don’t actually need 18 belts for 50HP
06:32 PM skunkworks: this is after a gear reduction..
06:32 PM skunkworks: between the gearbox and the spindle..
06:33 PM skunkworks: the motor -> gearbox is actually a timing belt ;)
06:34 PM andypugh: Still seems overkill. If they are the original belts, then definitely is.
06:42 PM skunkworks: we have a 20 hp lathe too.. hold on.
06:45 PM skunkworks: andypugh: the manual for the lathe calls the coils - 'chokes'
06:45 PM skunkworks: I wonder if adding a little radius to the corners of the polygons would help
06:47 PM skunkworks: mazak 1984 20hp http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200513_183805.jpg
06:48 PM andypugh: How many machine tools do you have?
06:48 PM skunkworks: enough?
06:48 PM andypugh: Unlikely
06:48 PM Tom_L: never!
06:48 PM skunkworks: heh
06:49 PM skunkworks: we have 2 that don't even run... yet
06:49 PM skunkworks: the cincinati and the acroloc
06:50 PM andypugh: You have to wonder why the Mazak didn’t just change the ratios in the gearbox and use a flange-mount motor straight in to the gearbox.
06:51 PM andypugh: (I assume that’s a 2-speed (or more) gearbox?
06:51 PM Tom_L: would those belts ever slip?
06:51 PM skunkworks: 2 speed
06:51 PM skunkworks: we are pretty easy on it..
06:52 PM andypugh: Tom_L: They won’t slip, but they will creep.
06:52 PM Tom_L: maybe the belts are there to slip if something gets jammed
06:52 PM Tom_L: instead of chipping a tooth
06:56 PM skunkworks: this is what is between the motor and the gearbox - on the 50hp lathe http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200513_183506.jpg
06:56 PM skunkworks: (one of the machines that isn't running)
06:57 PM Tom_L: that belongs on a skid steer
07:09 PM Thorhian: Anyone have any opinions on these V Ribbed Belts?
07:09 PM Thorhian: https://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/221000012356/
07:10 PM andypugh: Not really. I could pretend to have an opnion, if that would help.
07:10 PM Thorhian: XD
08:37 PM Thorhian: Well RIP, freecad is spitting 502 errors at me.
08:37 PM Thorhian: freecad wiki*
08:44 PM dirty_d: they're telling you to use fusion360
08:47 PM Thorhian: Yeah I'm good dirty_d. I'll probably only use it for it's CAM.
10:37 PM Soup4aHat is now known as CaptHindsight
11:33 PM Guest75362 is now known as justanotheruser
11:42 PM CaptHindsight is now known as CheeseShoes