#linuxcnc Logs

May 11 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:26 AM pingufan: Good morning. Is anybody here experienced with BLDC motors and controllers?
01:32 AM XXCoder: hey. not me unfortunately
01:32 AM pingufan: I want to somehow interface to the motor or BLDC controller to sense the current speed.
01:33 AM pingufan: Need a quick answer.
01:33 AM XXCoder: will be a while, this time is dead zone time heh
01:33 AM XXCoder: will be quite quiet for hour or 2
01:34 AM pingufan: This I can live with.
01:36 AM pingufan: I wonder if such motor is running LOAD-INDEPENDENT on set speed or not.
01:37 AM pingufan: There are hall sensors for feedback. This points more towards a rpm depends on load.
01:39 AM miss0r: morning
01:39 AM pingufan: morning
01:39 AM XXCoder: yo
01:40 AM pingufan: Are you experienced with BLDC motors and -controllers?
01:41 AM miss0r: I know *some* about them.
01:41 AM pingufan: Great.
01:41 AM miss0r: meyhaps...
01:41 AM miss0r: mayhaps* :D
01:42 AM pingufan: I need to know if a BLDC motor + controller is load-independent or not.
01:43 AM miss0r: That depends on the controller
01:43 AM pingufan: The motor has hall sensors connected to the controller. I can set rpm by applying 0-5V. I don't need more about the controller.
01:44 AM miss0r: Then it is not load dependant
01:45 AM miss0r: it will just draw more corrent to keep up with demand to sustain speed
01:46 AM sensille: it might still go slower when it can't keep up, or just stall, depending on the controller?
01:47 AM miss0r: sure
01:49 AM miss0r: but within the "area of use" (I can't come up with the english word for this) the situation where the controller can keep up with the power demand and the motor can keep up without overheating. Within this the RPM should be constant
01:53 AM pingufan: Aha. So when I set i.e. 3V and this equals to i.r. 3000 rpm, the speed does change only minimally (if it changes at all) until I reach the motor's limits?
01:54 AM sensille: yes, that's the idea
01:54 AM miss0r: That would be standard. But I'm sure you can find a controller that is programmable to a "constand load" not "constant speed".. but the latter is the default
01:55 AM pingufan: Sounds good. Because I have to reqork a laminator. It currently uses a windshield-wiper-motor (DC) and this is horribly inaccurate in speed.
01:56 AM pingufan: The hall sensors are connected by 5 wires: GND, H1,H2,H3,Ref+
01:56 AM pingufan: Do you think I can pick the rpm by sensing the voltage between GND and one of the hall sensors?
01:57 AM pingufan: I already have an external microcontroller for setting the speed and direction. This controller can use this as input?
01:58 AM pingufan: Or shall I keep this sensor connections untouched?
01:58 AM rmu|w: pingufan: you would need to count the frequency on one hal output
01:58 AM rmu|w: hall output
01:59 AM pingufan: That's the plan. But if it is constant rpm by itself, I can save that on the new PCB.
01:59 AM pingufan: It's the hall input of controller.
02:00 AM rmu|w: that depends on the controller. speed is more or less proportional to voltage, torque is proportional to current
02:00 AM XXCoder: mis I was also wondering, I had added magnets to my spindle fan, was planning to use sensor for rpm. so with that I can set it to either load and speed - how do load mode work?
02:00 AM rmu|w: the controller has to commutate the motor windings, and current cannot change instantly, the speed with which it can change is proportional to voltage and inductivity
02:00 AM pingufan: I post you a link to this "high end" controller.
02:01 AM rmu|w: BLDC fan controllers are kind of stupid and do only hard commutation according to hall sensors
02:01 AM pingufan: Here the link (hope it is not tooooo long): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000129198132.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.a8434c4dfOmfWi
02:01 AM rmu|w: "proper" BLDC controllers are controlling the current
02:02 AM pingufan: See the link. I have no more details.
02:03 AM sensille: pingufan: can can cut it at the '?'
02:03 AM sensille: s/can/you
02:04 AM pingufan: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000129198132.html
02:04 AM rmu|w: pingufan: looks like it could control speed
02:04 AM XXCoder: 120w interesting. is spindle power seperate?
02:05 AM pingufan: NO. This is also carying me a bit. But the motor is "only" 75 Watts @ 24V
02:05 AM pingufan: So 3 Amps.
02:05 AM rmu|w: controlling speed with the "stupid" BLDC controllers means changing the motor voltage, this controller has separate speed voltage input and motor voltage, so it seems it uses some sort of speed control scheme
02:06 AM pingufan: I think they use super-conducting copper.
02:06 AM rmu|w: ??
02:07 AM pingufan: 120W/24V = 5A over such little connector... And then this thin PCB lines...
02:07 AM pingufan: (Means: I wonder that it does not burn away)
02:08 AM pingufan: Main question... Should I prepare sensing one HALL input, or can I save that work for almost sure?
02:09 AM pingufan: I would use a transistor with base on one hall input and emitter on GND. (of course with resistors where needed.
02:14 AM rmu|w: if those are proper screw terminals you can probably load them with 10A and more
02:15 AM pingufan: Also I wonder if I can use the same powersupply for my microcontroller and BLDC driver. In my current design I have a connection from GND to BLDC-COM
02:16 AM pingufan: Or should I use optocouplers to have a totally decoupled signal level?
02:16 AM rmu|w: that depends ;)
02:17 AM pingufan: as always.
02:17 AM pingufan: You see how little details are given. If their COM is floating, I need a separate PSU for my controller.
02:17 AM rmu|w: why
02:18 AM rmu|w: if their COM is floating you are free to connect it to any potential (within reason)
02:18 AM pingufan: I don't know it it is...
02:19 AM pingufan: I don't have the controller at hands, I ordered it on saturday.
02:19 AM rmu|w: if COM is not floating it is likly connected to DC-
02:20 AM pingufan: If I connect my PCB to the 24V PSU, GND == DC- of BLDC controller. But I currently use transistors, so my PCB bridges DC- and COM on the BLDC controller.
02:21 AM pingufan: I can prevent that by using optocouplers.
02:21 AM rmu|w: you should keep motor currents separate from control currents
02:22 AM pingufan: Sure. But on PSU they are inter-connected.
02:23 AM pingufan: So current is not floating through my PCB, but signal levels are connected at PSU.
02:24 AM pingufan: So - if BLDC-COM is on different level than BLDC-"DC-" - a compensating current will flow through my PCB to PSU-GND.
02:29 AM rmu|w: use star-ditribution, i.e. connect power and ground leads only on one point, keep power lines parallel and close to each other
02:30 AM rmu|w: current wants to take the same way back
02:35 AM pingufan: Do you think that "COM" and "DC-" are inter-connected in BLDC controller?
02:36 AM rmu|w: they probably are
02:36 AM pingufan: Galvanically coupled, not floating?
02:37 AM pingufan: So I will stay with transistors.
02:37 AM rmu|w: get a real datasheet or open the controller, everything else is guessing
02:37 AM pingufan: For later I need to wait until it arrived.
02:38 AM Loetmichel: Mornin'. SOOO, got the CNC router within 0,2mm deviation on 400mm gantry travel out of square. Thats good enough for me... if i want the last 0,2mm i have to dismantle it and drill bigger holes in the gantry bracket. Had to use a big hammer to get it where it is NOW... Fun fact: Both CNC 6040 wer out of square the same amount AND the same direction despite being 6 years apart... seems the
02:38 AM Loetmichel: template for drilling the lower gantry bracket didnt change all that time :-)
02:38 AM rmu|w: you can't easly optoisolate a control voltage
02:40 AM pingufan: This is my PCB layout: http://www.hantsch.co.at/_temp/Lami_BLDC-Drive.pdf
02:41 AM rmu|w: thats only schematics
02:42 AM pingufan: Page 3 shows the control-Interface. When using optocouplers instead of transistors, I can fully isolate control signals.
02:42 AM pingufan: +5V supply for pullups comes from BLDC-controller
02:43 AM pingufan: (From REF+)
02:43 AM pingufan: So I only have common ground
02:47 AM rmu|w: pingufan: opto isoltors won't make things worse, but they are probably overkill if all you want to do is control a motor in a laminator that sits next to your control board
02:47 AM pingufan: ok. this I wanted to know.
02:47 AM rmu|w: like those arduino opto-isolated relay boards
02:48 AM rmu|w: opto-isolating a relay board also is kind of pointless
02:50 AM pingufan: Do you have any idea about how much current a HALL Output can source? If I want to sense the speed of motor. I don't want to directly connect to my PIC controller. So either a transistor or OC is needed.
02:52 AM pingufan: With OC, I need ~10mA (for the LED), with transistor I need much less, but there is (again) a unknown REF- pin.
02:52 AM rmu|w: the datasheet of the motor should help there, but it guess it is 5v ttl, so not that much
02:53 AM pingufan: So better a transistor. REF+ is 5V. They show to connect a POT between COM and REF+, with wiper to SV.
02:54 AM pingufan: So I assume it will be 5V at REF+.
02:54 AM pingufan: But no idea if REF- equals to COM and DC- in the controller. ;)
02:55 AM rmu|w: i don't believe they include isolated dc-dc converters at this price point
02:55 AM pingufan: This is also my hope.
02:56 AM rmu|w: it would not hurt if they did
02:57 AM rmu|w: if ref- is floating with resp to com and/or to dc-, you are free to connect it
02:57 AM rmu|w: to com and/or dc-
02:57 AM pingufan: So I will foresee a transistor where I can connect one Hall Sensor to. This way I protect my PIC from overvoltage spikes (if any).
02:57 AM rmu|w: if it is NOT floating, then you can't really connect it to anything
02:58 AM pingufan: ? Not otherwise round?
02:59 AM rmu|w: add some beefy TVS diodes
02:59 AM rmu|w: floating with resp. to some potential means not referenced to it IMHO
02:59 AM pingufan: How many pulses will I get per revolution on one hall sensor? The motor is declared as 4000 rpm
03:00 AM rmu|w: i.e. galvanically isolated
03:00 AM rmu|w: an integer multiple of one ;)
03:00 AM pingufan: Ah, you mean when HAL inputs and control port is isolated to each other.
03:01 AM pingufan: That's clear.
03:01 AM pingufan: Then Ref+ couldn't supply the POT.
03:01 AM rmu|w: ref+ can supply 20ma to hall sensors
03:02 AM pingufan: 3 sensors, so 60 mA
03:02 AM rmu|w: but the aliexpress chinenglish is open to interpretation, so ymmc
03:02 AM rmu|w: v
03:03 AM rmu|w: i find it curious that your windshield wiper are acting up, i find those things are very easy to control and very sturdy
03:03 AM rmu|w: "hard to kill"
03:04 AM pingufan: The Q is: How much can the hall sensor drive on its output. Do they have a push-pull drive, or only open collector...
03:04 AM rmu|w: idk
03:04 AM rmu|w: look at your motor
03:05 AM rmu|w: hall sensor is part of motor
03:05 AM pingufan: The wiper motor is only controlled by the laminator in open loop. So I set a speed between 1-9. This results is literally _some_ speed. If load increases or everything gets warm, speed goes down until the motor stalls
03:06 AM pingufan: This is the actual problem. This motor is a very crazy one, 36V/2A DC, controlled by PWM, I guess. But I hear nothing.
03:07 AM pingufan: And I can measure full 36V also as AC, so it definitely is PWM on motor directly.
03:08 AM pingufan: I built my own driver with feedback. 100 slots for light-barrier on output shaft.
03:09 AM pingufan: This is not satisfying. So I change to a BLDC motor+gear 139:1+BLDC controller now.
03:10 AM pingufan: This way I have approx 1500 rpm-2000 rpm in normal operation and get a high torque output of ~10-15 rpm
03:10 AM rmu|w: there exist complete monolithic automotive rate H-bridges for brushed DC motors up to 48V, and pollin.de has beefy brushed DC gearmotors
03:11 AM pingufan: I want to get away from that. Brushed DC is crap.
03:12 AM pingufan: I can only sense the speed at outgoing shaft, so I have to sense at 10 rpm with 100 pulses/rev. This is very slow sensing time
03:14 AM pingufan: With BLDC I have two optins: a.) the controller by itself gives constant speed, then I only have to produce appropriate PWM. b.) It does not, then I can sense a hall sensor and this way I sense rpm of motor (before 139:1 gear). So again very fast sensing.
05:03 AM JT-Cave: morning
05:03 AM XXCoder: hey
05:07 AM JT-Cave: 43°F so far has not made it to the 41°F forecast
05:13 AM JT-Cave: Tom_L, Raspbian GNU/Linux 10
05:28 AM XXCoder: man I hate my lungs
05:28 AM XXCoder: was outside all day yeserday, my lungs is weaker due to pollen. now after shower water is hurting me
05:37 AM p0g0_: XXCoder, cetirizine & a mask, better diet (as one allergenic to another, those all made marginal gains for me?
05:38 AM XXCoder: pollen is just very light allegen for me
05:38 AM XXCoder: issue is lungs isnt cleaning em very effectively
05:38 AM p0g0_: I live in a mixed mesophytic forest,pollen so dense it paints the cars yellow...
05:38 AM XXCoder: heh my car gets yellow also
05:39 AM XXCoder: rainforest biome
05:40 AM XXCoder: it looks like we will have bad ash season year too
05:40 AM XXCoder: 2 years aho was so bad I wore mask for weeks
05:40 AM p0g0_: smoke particles are bad news
05:40 AM Loetmichel: MAN i am glad that i have no allergies whatsoever.
05:40 AM p0g0_: short and long term
05:41 AM Loetmichel: i Do sneeze when there is so much pollen in the air though
05:41 AM Loetmichel: but i think thats normal
05:41 AM XXCoder: yeah would be abnormal not to
05:41 AM XXCoder: my body dont really have strong allegy rection, just that it messes with lungs lol
05:43 AM p0g0_: Mine have nearly killed me, tho that was a long time ago...
05:45 AM * Loetmichel just did a double sneeze that the coworker a level up at the other end of the company called and said "gesundheit" ;)
05:46 AM Loetmichel: s/level/floor
05:46 AM XXCoder: lol
05:46 AM Loetmichel: milling Pertinax DOES make some pretty fine dust... and stinks!
05:48 AM Loetmichel: Pertinax= paper reinforced with phenoiloc resin
05:48 AM Loetmichel: -o
05:48 AM XXCoder: heh fun
05:48 AM XXCoder: sounds as fun as fiberglass
05:48 AM Loetmichel: fiberglass is a lot less "stinky"
05:49 AM Loetmichel: that phenolic resin DOESENT like heat... ;)
05:49 AM XXCoder: wouldnt know that heh just know it really annoys
05:49 AM Loetmichel: you know that "old electronics getting hot" smell?
05:49 AM XXCoder: nope
05:49 AM XXCoder: unfortunately I cant smell
05:50 AM Loetmichel: thats the phenolic PCB material gassing off
05:50 AM Loetmichel: oh
05:50 AM Loetmichel: intersting
05:50 AM XXCoder: my body is amazing lol
05:50 AM XXCoder: its like someones testing how many problems body can have before failure
05:51 AM Loetmichel: from experience: quite a few
05:51 AM XXCoder: same for me
05:51 AM XXCoder: it wasnt too bad when I was born. my back grew wrong and I was deaf and cant smell. not too bad
05:52 AM XXCoder: age added bunch more.
05:52 AM XXCoder: and some fun stuff added more.
05:52 AM XXCoder: permenia 7 years ago damaged my lungs for example. i lost 50% of breathing ability then recovered half of loss over a year
05:52 AM XXCoder: never recovered any more
05:53 AM XXCoder: let me tell you, its fun to find out you cant blow up ballons
05:53 AM XXCoder: i can now, but yeah
05:53 AM Loetmichel: you know the movie "unbreakable" with bruce willis? i just thought you must be samel l jackson while i am closer to bruce ;)
05:54 AM XXCoder: wonderful, im a mass murderer just for reason of testing one person
05:54 AM XXCoder: I have second and third movies havent watched em yet
05:54 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: i meant body wise
05:54 AM Loetmichel: not the actions taken
05:54 AM XXCoder: i know, was kidding heh
05:54 AM XXCoder: whats funny is my bones is quite strong, only broke few bones
05:56 AM XXCoder: whats dumb is out of 5 breakages, 2 is twice on same place
05:56 AM XXCoder: i just hope I dont break the rib again at same spot as its only one that broke only once lol
05:58 AM Loetmichel: i only broke my wrist once while jumping over a traffic control chain at a crossing
05:59 AM Loetmichel: had a laptop under the right arm so i used my left hand to stop the fall when my foot caught the chain. bad idea ;)
05:59 AM XXCoder: all mine is just dumb. my brother walked to me and acciently hit my toe with boots. second breakage on same toe, few years, same event
05:59 AM XXCoder: right hand bone twice, by punching someone, and again by punching before it fully healed
06:00 AM Loetmichel: other than that: nope, never broke anything else
06:00 AM Loetmichel: not even when i fell 6m onto concrete from a lighting rig
06:00 AM XXCoder: rib is fun one, Im not too sure how, i was rowing a dragon boat when i found out I broke rib. thought it was just muscles sore
06:00 AM Loetmichel: just bruises
06:00 AM XXCoder: let me tell you, rowing dragon boat is very hard.
06:01 AM XXCoder: https://res.cloudinary.com/dragonspell/image/upload/w_1440,h_864,c_scale,dpr_auto,fl_progressive:steep/v1571445442/www.travelportland.com/dragonboat-aspect-ratio-5x3.jpg
06:01 AM XXCoder: deaf team dont use drum, we just have guy hitting stick on boat floor in timing
06:03 AM XXCoder: what truly diappointed me is that I never got to race. my back is still okay-ish but it was virtually last year I could do it, and rib breakage prevented me from racing
06:25 AM Tom_L: morning
06:26 AM pingufan: morning
06:26 AM Tom_L: 50°
08:43 AM Spida_ is now known as Spida
08:48 AM * Loetmichel just had to wipe away the tears of laughter. Boss just came down to the factory floor:"So, visitors are gone, you can get rid of the corona masks. BTW, here is a full pot of fresh brewed coffee, any takers?" *FFFFUP* 8 people standing around him out of nowhere all with a coffee cup in hand... his face: priceless!
08:51 AM dirty_d: that's what's off, I haven't had coffee yet
09:08 AM skunkworks: Fresh pot of coffee here..
09:18 AM unterhaus: starting to be really annoyed with myself about the location of my mesa daughterboards
09:19 AM unterhaus: So many good places to put them, but they aren't there
09:20 AM skunkworks: heh
09:20 AM unterhaus: I didn't want to work on the mill after I smashed my finger with it, then had to work on my mom's house to sell for a couple of years
09:20 AM unterhaus: so it has been a while since I had my hands on them
09:23 AM Loetmichel: unterhaus: managed to get my thumb in between milling head and gantry when homing. was pretty unpleasant with 3A steppers, but no broken bones, just a black nail for a few weeks
09:23 AM Loetmichel: i hope that never happens with an industrial machine
09:56 AM norias: howdy
10:03 AM norias: hi Thorhian
10:05 AM unterhaus: Loetmichael, I was having trouble getting a servomotor running. Out of frustration, I pulled on the timing belt and it started running
10:06 AM unterhaus: dragged my finger through the pulley. No real permanent damage, maybe a little numbness. It's about 700 watt motor, so plenty of force
10:07 AM norias: ouch
10:07 AM norias: my german is nearly non-existant
10:07 AM norias: but, are you... under a house?
10:07 AM unterhaus: I learned that brushless motors don't have to be wired perfectly to run.
10:08 AM norias: neat
10:08 AM unterhaus: yes, it's a bad translation of my name back into german
10:08 AM norias: ok
10:08 AM unterhaus: keller -> basement -> under house
10:08 AM norias: ahhh, ok
10:09 AM norias: apparently i also knew the german word for basement
10:09 AM unterhaus: some guy used to call my dad that, he hated it. I adopted it as an online name
10:09 AM norias: how do i know as many german words as i do?
10:09 AM unterhaus: german is English with a funny accent
10:10 AM norias: lol
10:10 AM unterhaus: Probably the easiest language for most English speakers to learn
10:10 AM Thorhian: Hello norias
10:10 AM norias: hi
10:12 AM norias: these chips are salty as heck
10:12 AM norias: i'm used to having aluminum chips and coffee in the morning
10:13 AM norias: but these potato chips are not going well
10:54 AM Rab: norias, try some liquid coolant.
10:56 AM norias: Rab: good idea
10:57 AM norias: that blasocut is as good as creamer, any day
10:59 AM skunkworks: huh. unterhaus - your name makes sense now. ;)
11:07 AM Loetmichel: norias: considering that the us american english has a couple hundred loan words from the german language you would be surprised how MANY german words you know ;)
11:08 AM norias: Loetmichel: true.
11:18 AM Rab: German was nearly the official US language, IIRC. That might have made WW2 interesting.
11:19 AM skunkworks: i need to mount my mister...
11:20 AM skunkworks: that sounds odd
11:21 AM Rab: I wasn't gonna say, but I parsed it as sister at first. -_-;
11:27 AM norias: Rab: me, too
11:42 AM net|: https://github.com/tecan/emscripten-projects/blob/master/Loaders/Uploader/Screenshot%20at%202020-05-11%2010-08-10.png
11:47 AM skunkworks: I am probably going to have to look at the Z axis - I don't like how much oil is getting on one of the way surfaces.. (too little it seems)
11:54 AM Tom_L: skunkworks, what one did you get?
12:50 PM unterhaus: on my BP, I had to replace all the oil metering valves because it was starving some of the ways
01:02 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, you gettin wet over there?
01:16 PM CaptHindsight is now known as RedTalkingPoints
01:18 PM RedTalkingPoints is now known as CaptHindsight
01:20 PM Thorhian: How's it going people?
01:31 PM net|: http://www.netpipe.ca/apps/PitchShifter/Pong.html upload your favorite song in wav format to hear it in lower pitch same speed
03:18 PM unterhaus: well, caught sight of a stray 50 pin cable on the pile of junk on the mill table and there were my daughter cards
03:19 PM CaptHindsight: what layer?
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: often it's like rock strata
03:20 PM CaptHindsight: most recent project on top
03:30 PM Deejay: gn8
03:48 PM Lcvette: Tom_L: yo
03:48 PM Lcvette: do you remember how to set a 7i76 to software mode 2?
03:48 PM Lcvette: needs to be done in mesaflash?
03:51 PM pcw_home: sserial mode setting in done in the hal/ini file
03:57 PM Tom_L: pcw_home, MISO -> MOSI and MOSI -> MISO on the pi to 7i90 right?
03:58 PM Tom_L: trying to round up some ribbon...
03:58 PM Tom_L: what pin is used for SS do you happen to know?
03:58 PM pcw_home: SS?
03:59 PM Tom_L: slave select
03:59 PM Tom_L: or does it need one?
03:59 PM Tom_L: since it's only using one device
04:00 PM Tom_L: it should i'd think
04:00 PM pcw_home: its "/SPICS"
04:00 PM pcw_home: PI MOSI --> 7I90 SPIIN
04:00 PM Tom_L: i'm looking at the pi header pinout
04:01 PM Tom_L: ok
04:01 PM pcw_home: PI MISO <-- 7I90 SPIOUT
04:01 PM Tom_L: right, that part is straighforward
04:01 PM Tom_L: maybe spi_ce0_n is their chip enable?
04:02 PM Tom_L: and spi_ce1_N
04:02 PM pcw_home: I believe the driver uses RPI SPI0
04:02 PM pcw_home: so spi_ce0
04:02 PM Tom_L: ok
04:04 PM Tom_L: and use hm2_rspi in the ini
04:05 PM Tom_L: and use hm2_rpspi in the ini
04:18 PM pcw_home: Tom_L yeah
04:22 PM Tom_L: pcw_home, is there anything in the 2nd flash chip on the 7i90 by default? i plan to leave the parallel one in if i can and use the 2nd one for the spi
04:22 PM pcw_home: both have epp configs as shipped
04:22 PM Tom_L: either that or mess em both up
04:22 PM Tom_L: ok
04:23 PM Tom_L: and that has nothing to do with the fallback?
04:23 PM pcw_home: no, both EEPROMs have a user config and a fallback
04:23 PM Tom_L: ok
04:23 PM Tom_L: i don't need to change the 2nd fallback for the spi do i?
04:24 PM pcw_home: you dont need to but its recommended
04:25 PM pcw_home: (so if you do something like crash during a SPI flash update you are still in SPI land)
04:27 PM Tom_L: i've never loaded a fallback bit file
04:27 PM Tom_L: anything special i should know?
04:29 PM pcw_home: you just add --fallback to the mesaflash command line
04:30 PM Tom_L: could it be any easier? :D
04:34 PM Tom_L: so set W3 down and jumper W4 for the 2nd chip
04:34 PM pcw_home: you can also load a fallback config into the FPGA with --fallback --reload
04:35 PM Tom_L: that one isn't persistent though is it?
04:35 PM pcw_home: only one jumper select primary or secondary EEPROM
04:35 PM Tom_L: the docs say 2nd one is readonly unless W4 is jumpered
04:36 PM pcw_home: no, because the next power cycle will reload the user config
04:36 PM pcw_home: I think W4 is a no-op currently
04:36 PM Tom_L: so it should write anyway based on W3 position
04:36 PM pcw_home: yes
04:37 PM Tom_L: alright
04:37 PM Tom_L: i think you told me that eons ago but i forgot
04:37 PM pcw_home: you can also play games like powering up in one jumper position and moving the jumper live
04:38 PM Tom_L: so i can leave the spi in the 2nd one and just switch back to epp
04:38 PM Tom_L: hah what does that do?
04:38 PM pcw_home: (that can allow you to recover from a corrupted EEPROM image)
04:38 PM Tom_L: yeah i can see that
04:39 PM pcw_home: boot from the good one and immediately change to other one (so you don't corrupt the good one)
04:39 PM Tom_L: yeah, then flash it again
04:40 PM Tom_L: well if i muff it up too bad you'll get a box in the mail :)
04:40 PM pcw_home: another trick is using the fallback config to test new bitfiles so if its a complete dud you just power cycle
04:41 PM Tom_L: what does the fallback actually do?
04:41 PM Tom_L: just boot?
04:46 PM pcw_home: if a CRC error is detected while loading the user config, the fallback config will be loaded instead
04:46 PM pcw_home: if you are brave you can check this by stopping a mesaflash EEPROM write in the middle
04:47 PM Tom_L: meh, i trust your word :)
04:47 PM pcw_home: (thus corrupting the user config)
04:47 PM pcw_home: a power cycle at that point will load the fallback config
04:47 PM pcw_home: bbl
04:47 PM Tom_L: thanks
06:41 PM _unreal_: hello
06:44 PM Tom_L: ugh
06:44 PM Thorhian: I got my face mill today! :D
06:46 PM infornography: Keep your face away from it. It is not literally made for faces. It causes much pain when used on face.
06:46 PM Tom_L: got plenty of inserts?
06:49 PM Thorhian: XD
06:50 PM Thorhian: It came with 10 inserts, its a 4 insert mill.
06:50 PM Tom_L: should have been 8 or 12 :/
06:51 PM Thorhian: I got it from China but the inserts seem to be legit Korloy inserts.
06:51 PM Thorhian: Also, you mean I should have gotten a number of extra inserts divisible by 4, or I should have gotten a 8 or 12 insert mill lol?
06:52 PM Tom_L: odd number of inserts for the cutter
06:52 PM Tom_L: but that's how they're packaged
06:52 PM Thorhian: Yeah.
06:53 PM Thorhian: It's enough to for an extra swap when needed in the future.
06:53 PM Tom_L: can you rotate them 2x or 4x?
06:53 PM Thorhian: They can be rotated 4x, they are squares.
06:57 PM jdh: if you chip one, would you be likely to chip all of them at once?
06:58 PM Tom_L: possibly
06:58 PM Tom_L: not always
07:22 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR0PTTua1-4
07:25 PM Tom_L: it's alive!
07:27 PM Thorhian: Dang that is awesome. How expensive is a decent encoder for something like a spindle?
07:30 PM skunkworks: Thorhian: umm.. Depends on the source.. we found some 5000 line encoders on ebay for <20 dollars
07:31 PM skunkworks: and it depends on what you are hoping to do with the spindle.
07:31 PM MacGalempsy: anyone making chips today?
07:33 PM Tom_L: skunkworks, is it inside the mill column or exposed?
07:36 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: it is within the tin shroud... http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200422_190254.jpg
07:37 PM Tom_L: cool
07:37 PM Tom_L: nice snug fit there
07:37 PM skunkworks: yes - just fits
07:37 PM skunkworks: Getting the draw bar cylinder in might be fun..
07:37 PM skunkworks: some day
07:38 PM Tom_L: i bet you're alot happier with that encoder
07:38 PM skunkworks: Yes - I have not run it up to 10k yet though ;)
07:39 PM Tom_L: you gonna try a 1k servo thread?
07:39 PM skunkworks: sure.
07:39 PM skunkworks: I wonder if the smart serial takes a bit more overhead.
07:40 PM Tom_L: no idea, probably depends what's attached to it
07:40 PM skunkworks: stmbl drive
07:42 PM Tom_L: so in the ini, the lower the servo_period the higher the frequency
07:43 PM Tom_L: i've never really messed with mine, just left it where it was
07:44 PM skunkworks: inverse relationship :)
07:44 PM skunkworks: 1/period=hz
07:44 PM Tom_L: yeah
07:45 PM skunkworks: This is the first time I have changed the servo thread - that I remember
07:45 PM Tom_L: T = 1/f
07:46 PM Tom_L: how do you know if it's too slow?
07:46 PM Tom_L: err too short
07:46 PM skunkworks: too fast? you start getting realtime delays errors
07:47 PM skunkworks: where the actual period is longer than the period in the ini
07:47 PM Tom_L: i just wasn't sure when i copy my config over for spi if i should increase it
07:47 PM Tom_L: or try it where it's at
07:49 PM skunkworks: I think you will be fine with 1khz - with spi
07:54 PM Thorhian: Hey skunkworks, thanks for your videos. You are one of the reasons I am getting an RPi4 and mesa cards to drive my future mill.
08:03 PM skunkworks: Thorhian: your welcome. good luck!
08:11 PM skunkworks: Hmm - my 2012 nexus 7 died.. what to replace it with? the same?
08:11 PM skunkworks: (I bought it used to begin with)
08:12 PM unterhaus_: skunkworks: what i/o are you using with your mesa?
08:14 PM skunkworks: which one? I have 7i92 that I am using just the raw i/o. I have 7i80 with servo interface and opto22 5i20 with servo interface and opto22's plus some other various smart serial boards.
08:15 PM skunkworks: I do have the 7i76/77 but hav not played with them much.
08:15 PM Tom_L: the optos something you made?
08:15 PM unterhaus_: watching one of your videos about it
08:16 PM skunkworks: no - with the 50 pin mesa boards - the opto22 24 i/o boards plug right in
08:17 PM skunkworks: like https://www.ebay.com/itm/Opto22-PB24-PB24-Output-Module/313075281312?epid=143710856&hash=item48e4bdada0:g:PkkAAOxy4YdTQYUB
08:17 PM skunkworks: easy cheap isolated i/o
08:19 PM Tom_L: yeah
08:19 PM skunkworks: you can see them here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMSjrab6U_k
08:20 PM ziper: is there anything a shaper can do that a bridgeport can't do better?
08:25 PM unterhaus_: I'm sure a shaper is better at a lot of things. Like scraping long ways flat, for example
08:25 PM unterhaus_: but I wouldn't go out and get one
08:26 PM skunkworks: you can do anything on a shaper except make money
08:27 PM roycroft: so say a lot of folks
08:27 PM roycroft: abom makes a lot of money with his shaper
08:27 PM roycroft: but not by making things
08:27 PM unterhaus_: skunkworks on the green machine are you going direct to the leadshine and a smart serial board from the same mesa ehternet card
08:27 PM roycroft: he does it by making youtube videos
08:28 PM unterhaus_: shapers were a lot more useful back before people started making huge milling machines
08:29 PM skunkworks: unterhaus_: yes - I make a small differential line driver for running smart serial from the 7i92 i/o
08:29 PM skunkworks: wouldn't recomend it - but I was having fun.
08:29 PM skunkworks: We still have our shaper.. We haven't used it in years - but it comes in handy
08:31 PM skunkworks: wow - sure am getting shit comments now on youtube.
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: which video?
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: have only seen positive comments on yours
08:37 PM unterhaus_: probably one of the ones he posted on practical machinist
08:55 PM lmat: I'm creating software for a newly-designed machine. It needs to be able to read digital inputs to tell when certain parts touch other parts (and various things). What's the best way to get the Digital inputs into a computer? I've been looking at this: https://crevis.us/product/gt-1238/ but to get the inputs to a computer, I'll need perhaps this: https://crevis.us/product/gl-9089/
08:56 PM lmat: This seems pretty round-about. What's the best way to get digital inputs into a computer? I'm using GNU/Linux.
09:02 PM Tom_L: https://portwell.com/products/detail.php?CUSTCHAR1=PCI-DIO-96C3
09:03 PM lmat: Tom_L: I see
09:03 PM Tom_L: never seen or used one
09:03 PM lmat: Tom_L: okay.
09:04 PM lmat: Tom_L: I'm also considering having a separate microcontroller to keep track of small routines so that the IO can all be "on-board" and it will have better real-time characteristics. Does that make sense?
09:05 PM Rab: lmat, what sort of software will you be using?
09:05 PM lmat: Rab: I haven't written it yet.
09:06 PM Rab: lmat, are you looking for a vendor-provided driver framework, like NI's VISA, maybe with C or python bindings?
09:07 PM lmat: I don't care, but that seems reasonable. You're talking about a vendor-provided API for interacting with the IO module? I'll be writing in C++; C bindings will be fine.
09:07 PM Rab: Or would your needs be met by something that shows up as a generic USB class device?
09:07 PM lmat: Rab: Either way I think.
09:08 PM Rab: lmat, are you on a commercial or hobbyist budget?
09:08 PM lmat: Rab: Commercial/industrial.
09:10 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: shit comments as in ads and crap
09:11 PM Rab: lmat, you might take a look at National Instruments offerings...they try really hard to push LabVIEW, which wouldn't be my first choice for industrial process automation, but their hardware is pretty good and a lot of it includes generic bindings for your own software.
09:11 PM CaptHindsight: ah yeah
09:11 PM lmat: Rab: Sure will.
09:13 PM lmat: Rab: Do you know of any IO modules that connect via Ethernet?
09:14 PM Rab: lmat, I'd be remiss if I didn't add a plug for Mesa hardware: http://www.mesanet.com/
09:14 PM Tom_L: doesn't mesa have an api you can get?
09:15 PM Rab: Those folks hang out here, they're very nice, open source friendly. There are I/O modules which work with many/most PC platforms, and with ethernet.
09:15 PM Tom_L: lmat, the 7i80 is ethernet with 72 io
09:16 PM Rab: http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html
09:16 PM lmat: Ah, I see! This is good stuff. I have to go at the moment, but I'll be back probably tomorrow morning. Thanks!
09:16 PM Rab: lmat, sure!
09:19 PM CaptHindsight: lmat: I use LCNC with mesa boards for all sorts of IO
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: Comedi used to work with Linuxcnc https://www.comedi.org/
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: comedi also work with just Linux and supports several IO boards
09:21 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.comedi.org/hardware.html
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: still active https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comedi_list
09:22 PM Rab: CaptHindsight, that looks pretty good.
09:22 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/Linux-Comedi
09:26 PM norias: hello
09:36 PM CaptHindsight is now known as CaptUnderpants
09:37 PM CaptUnderpants is now known as GeneralNusiance
09:38 PM GeneralNusiance is now known as GeneralNuisance
09:39 PM GeneralNuisance is now known as BigElectricCat
10:19 PM skunkworks: found the problem with my nexus.. http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200511_221739.jpg
10:20 PM Tom_L: pulled the pads?
10:20 PM BigElectricCat: how did you do that?
10:20 PM skunkworks: no clue
10:21 PM skunkworks: it has been getting flakeyer and flakeyer over the last year
10:21 PM Tom_L: i can see why
10:21 PM Tom_L: you think heat did that?
10:21 PM BigElectricCat: the balls lifted right out of the pcb
10:21 PM BigElectricCat: took the pads to
10:21 PM skunkworks: it is the 16g hynix
10:22 PM skunkworks: rip
10:23 PM skunkworks: it had a good life.. Now I need to see what is out there that is as good.
10:23 PM skunkworks: or I guess I could buy another nexus.. but jeeze - that thing was 8 years old
10:23 PM BigElectricCat: skunkworks: was there something mechanically holding it in place besides the solder?
10:23 PM skunkworks: no
10:23 PM skunkworks: no glue or anything
10:25 PM skunkworks: these thing were known to have mfg issues
10:25 PM BigElectricCat: i wonder if it used to flex a lot
10:25 PM skunkworks: but boy - when it ran - it ran smooth
10:25 PM BigElectricCat: the BGA is pretty sturdy
10:25 PM Tom_L: dead bug it :)
10:25 PM BigElectricCat: the pcb can flex
10:26 PM BigElectricCat: the pads are gone, you can't fix that easily
10:26 PM Tom_L: i know
10:27 PM BigElectricCat: would be a nightmare if that was the last phone and you needed to use it to be rescued
10:28 PM skunkworks: yah - it isn't mission critical
10:29 PM skunkworks: the neighbor gave me a samsung tab 3 - which is newer but just feels way worse.
10:29 PM skunkworks: it gets way worse reviews.
10:30 PM skunkworks: it could have been heat - I fell asleep with it running a video
11:52 PM miss0r: morning