#linuxcnc Logs
Apr 12 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
12:38 AM _unreal_: max jitter 10,000 is good ya?
02:14 AM Deejay: moin
02:36 AM Vq: Good morning
05:49 AM jthornton: morning
05:50 AM XXCoder: yo
05:57 AM jthornton: geez my drive components will arrive over the next two weeks lol
05:59 AM XXCoder: only 2 weeks
05:59 AM XXCoder: my amazon order wont arrive for another 4 weeks lol
05:59 AM XXCoder: going to bed later :)
05:59 AM jthornton: night
05:59 AM jthornton: my first order from amazon for a while
06:19 AM p0g0: My local Amazon warehouse has >2 CV staff, I suggest you sequester any package from them from 3+ days.
06:20 AM p0g0: *for 3+
06:21 AM jthornton: ok
06:21 AM p0g0: Amazon itself is sequestering shipments from it's own warehouses, that tells me they think the boxes/bags are contaminated.
06:23 AM jthornton: where did you read that?
06:26 AM p0g0: It was in one of the newspapers I read, I might be able to find it- the article was about the hub in Louisville thta was getting stuff from another warehouse up east, Pennsylvania maybe. I can try to find it, it was 3 days or so back.
06:27 AM jthornton: that's ok
06:28 AM p0g0: Bloomberg.com, let me try to get the exact URL here
06:30 AM p0g0: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-08/an-amazon-warehouse-is-dealing-with-a-coronavirus-outbreak
06:31 AM p0g0: I must have seen the Lville stuff later.
06:33 AM p0g0: Lexington, KY had staff test + for CV19, I think it is getting common.
06:41 AM SpeedEvil: heating the package to 55C for a couple hours works fine
06:41 AM SpeedEvil: The chances of getting anything from packages is small, especially if you wash your hands after.
06:42 AM SpeedEvil: Having said that, I just pressure-washed some grapes.
06:48 AM jthornton: on the vine?
06:51 AM SpeedEvil: yes
06:53 AM jthornton: nice, I planted some muscadines about 15 years ago but they did not survive for some reason
06:54 AM Tom_L: morning
06:57 AM SpeedEvil: On the vine, as in shop-bought on the vine
06:58 AM SpeedEvil: My grapevine is inadequately tended
08:39 AM jymmmm: morning
09:38 AM _unreal_: omg what a pain in the ass. just got chrome to close finally
10:21 AM Deejay: sudo killall -9 chrome? ;)
10:21 AM Deejay: uh, think its whithout -9
12:08 PM _unreal_: ve7it, hi
12:08 PM _unreal_: Deejay, got it
12:46 PM Tom_L: _unreal_
12:46 PM Tom_L: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/user_comps/huanyang-vfd/hy_vfd.c
12:46 PM Tom_L: if you need to tweak it
12:48 PM Tom_L: since it's c, you might have to build your own lcnc from source if you tweak it
12:50 PM Choscura: hmm
12:50 PM Choscura: I guess, how terrible of a person am I for making a lathe out of plastic, lol
12:51 PM Choscura: well not just plastic, but a lot of plastic for major structural components
12:51 PM Tom_L: maybe not the best idea to come along
12:51 PM Choscura: no shit, lol
12:51 PM Choscura: it's what I've got while on lockdown
12:52 PM jymmmm: Truck stop balloons... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79nDqxfMTvI
12:53 PM Choscura: but, since it's basically going to cnc an angle grinder and do minimum force sort of machining, I think I can sort of get away with having an aluminum-on-wood 'bed' with basically HDPE bricks of melted down plastic that I've first melted and then cast in a vise under compression to keep air bubbles down (which sorta works, but is not perfect, also want a vacuum chamber)
12:54 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, did you play with matches as a kid?
12:54 PM Choscura: to make basically 'shoe' sliders that I'm basically going to mount nuts in and use standard threaded rod to have a decent long axis of travel
12:54 PM Choscura: and run that with some nema 19's
12:54 PM jymmmm: Tom_L Oh yeah, including a timed fuse
12:55 PM Choscura: cigarette's a decent timed fuse
12:56 PM jymmmm: Choscura: that's what I used
12:57 PM Choscura: convergence is when independent lines of thought, arrive at the same conclusion for different reasons :D
01:01 PM jymmmm: I find it ironic, that burning wood produces ash, which contain lye, which can be mixed with aluminum and watre to produce hydrogen gas
01:01 PM jymmmm: and I have a LOT of wood ash
01:01 PM Choscura: want a fun project, besides HHO torch
01:02 PM Choscura: hydrogen baloon assisted quad drone
01:02 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, don't you have enough problems with fire there already?
01:02 PM Choscura: yeah yeah hindenberg etc but if it's not carrying people, who gives a fuck
01:02 PM jymmmm: Tom_L That's UNCONTROLLED fire
01:02 PM Choscura: lol
01:02 PM Tom_L: ahhh ok... carry on
01:02 PM Choscura: hydrogen is not to be fucked with, however is most abundant gas
01:03 PM Choscura: plenty of youtube channel examples of making simple HHO torches
01:03 PM Choscura: water + baking soda + a power control unit of some type putting voltage through it
01:03 PM Choscura: some kind of a collection tank etc
01:03 PM jymmmm: Tom_L There is a fire camp near me, they have this HUGE training field I'd like to get permission to use
01:04 PM Choscura: go be a fireman and get paid to do this shit
01:04 PM Tom_L: yeah, we've got a large FF training facility here. they're constantly setting fires there
01:05 PM Tom_L: several story building, cars etc
01:06 PM Tom_L: the city will let them torch abandoned buildings to clear them sometimes
01:06 PM jymmmm: Tom_L IDK exactly what they do, but it's huge enough for what I want to play wiht =)
01:06 PM Tom_L: i bet they love their jobs..
01:10 PM Choscura: yeah nothing like the smell of dead burning rats to let you know you're alive
01:15 PM Rab: Choscura, since you're taking such an economical approach to your lathe, why not omit the lead nuts and thread the HDPE directly? Or even introduce threads during the casting: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/acme-thread-with-evanut.50527/
01:17 PM Rab: Delrin has preferred characteristics for lead nuts, but HDPE might still have better wear characteristics than hardware store nut on threaded rod.
01:27 PM Choscura: I'm seriously considering threading the HDPE directly, however, I've got a box of the 1/4" nuts that are appropriate and can spare them to add a bit of surface area and durability in this
01:28 PM Choscura: basically it's already going to be threaded through a 3-inch section of plastic, but the idea is to put a nut every inch
01:28 PM Rab: hmmm
01:29 PM Choscura: I'm rather pleasantly surprised with how dense this plastic is when you get big proper blocks of it
01:29 PM Choscura: I think I need to learn more about the tempering process but it shrinks a bit in on itself so it's kind of under compression
01:29 PM Choscura: so a big thick brick of it is actually really stable
01:30 PM Choscura: I'm tending towards using cans to cast it in, so think about tuna can size at the smallest
01:30 PM Choscura: have a 'chuck' that I'm going to try to make from a 8" pie pan
01:31 PM Choscura: already have cast that but have not started machining it
01:31 PM Choscura: think I'll probably cast a head and tail stock in the next few days
01:35 PM Rab: What's your source for the bulk HDPE?
02:12 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200412_134238.jpg
02:17 PM Tom_L: nice
02:17 PM Tom_L: you'll have to adjust the scale now right?
02:24 PM Rab: skunkworks, did you turn those pulleys yourself?
02:27 PM Choscura: the HDPE, I've been intending to make a 3d printer to use discarded milk cartons and so I actually have a good few boxes of washed/compressed bottles from about the last year or so that I've been saving up for this
02:28 PM Choscura: and the basic process is to wash it, dry it, cut the labels and such off (hard to remove so I just cut that plastic with labels on it off) and melt it in a panini press, which is about the right temperature and I can just plug it in and let it go
02:28 PM Choscura: basically I'll melt whole bottles at a time now, was originally trying to melt chips but it's such a hands-on process that you may as well start with a whole bottle
02:30 PM Choscura: get it so it's all soft, and with a pair of heat resistant work gloves I knead it to a ball and compress that on the panini press until completely melted for a couple cycles, as this seems to get most of the air bubbles out, and then I'll stetch and fold a couple cycles to try to homgenize it
02:30 PM Choscura: and then I'll put an accumulated ball into whatever sort of 'ingot' mold I've got, can or pan or whatever
02:31 PM Choscura: and put that in a proper bench vise to compress it and hold it under compression while it cools
02:32 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: yes.. encoder scale.
02:33 PM skunkworks: Rab: the inside.. yes
02:33 PM Choscura: actually it's got such interesting properties that I kind of like the idea of making more stuff with it, if it can do such a good stiff interference fit by shrinking onto something as it cools say
02:33 PM Choscura: seems like not the worst way to make handles and such
02:35 PM Rab: skunkworks, did you grind your own tool for the poly-v profile, or how did you do that?
02:36 PM Rab: 60 degrees, unless I'm mis-remembering.
02:38 PM skunkworks: Rab: i didn't cut the teeth
02:38 PM skunkworks: it is xl037
02:39 PM XXCoder: p0g0: heh thats why I spray all packages with sterilizer now. who knows who touched those packages on way to me
02:40 PM Rab: skunkworks, I mean the pulley with belt installed.
02:40 PM XXCoder: and we got 3 people here that probably will die from covid if we get it
02:45 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest4348
02:51 PM jthornton: XXCoder, what do you spray them with?
02:51 PM XXCoder: oh neutral sterilizer. its named that
02:52 PM Tom_L: we been doing surfaces with 4oz/gal bleach water
02:52 PM XXCoder: its same type as ones used at hospitals.
02:52 PM Tom_L: let it sit 10 min or it does no good
02:52 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, copyed hy.c
02:53 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, if you mod it, you will have to build linuxcnc yourself. hopefully you won't have to
02:53 PM _unreal_: no idea
02:53 PM _unreal_: I JUST!!!!!!
02:53 PM _unreal_: got the new pc to boot finally
02:53 PM _unreal_: nightmare problems with UEFI
02:53 PM Tom_L: if it were a py file it would take care of itself
02:53 PM _unreal_: I hate uefi
02:53 PM Tom_L: i think..
02:54 PM Tom_L: can you shut it off in the bios?
02:56 PM _unreal_: thats what I did
02:56 PM _unreal_: well I changed the hd type from uefi to IDE
02:56 PM _unreal_: for the sata drive
02:56 PM _unreal_: it wouldnt let me install grub
02:56 PM _unreal_: now its working
02:57 PM _unreal_: this other computer has an intel CEL. the other pc I had installed lcnc on last week is a cel as well but they have the stupid ass new letter/number system there is no real easy way to identify cpus with out looking them up
02:57 PM _unreal_: come to find out the other one I have is almost 2x the cpu power
02:58 PM Tom_L: latency is what you're interested in
02:58 PM _unreal_: god i wish I had the capital. just looking at certain stocks
02:58 PM _unreal_: ya
02:58 PM _unreal_: this one was giving 15000
02:58 PM _unreal_: also using the 7i96
02:58 PM _unreal_: next step is to get that going
02:59 PM veegee: So I nailed the 6013, 7014, 7018 rods
02:59 PM _unreal_: ?
02:59 PM veegee: I can get really nice clean welds like the pros on youtube
02:59 PM veegee: but I can't get 6011 to work properly
03:00 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, that one has the io buffering on the board right?
03:00 PM veegee: I always get ugly welds that are inconsistent along the bead
03:00 PM _unreal_: yes Tom_L
03:00 PM Tom_L: fairly new card i think
03:00 PM _unreal_: ya I went with it for the buffering
03:00 PM _unreal_: my setup is likely to make a lot of noise that could spice the lines
03:00 PM _unreal_: spike
03:00 PM veegee: The E6011 rods feel like they burn differently at the start than at the end and feel like they burn at different speeds along the length of the rod
03:00 PM Tom_L: if you need more IO you can always get a sserial card
03:01 PM _unreal_: serial card?
03:01 PM Tom_L: to expand what you've got
03:01 PM veegee: yeah it's a little card that you have to present to people wherever you go
03:01 PM veegee: to let them know you're a serial rapaist
03:02 PM _unreal_: I think I'm good amazingly on i/o with that card
03:02 PM Tom_L: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=69_70
03:03 PM Tom_L: you just use a couple of your io for sserial and add a card
03:03 PM Tom_L: generally used for slower things like switches or mpg etc
03:05 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, yeah he made that one as a one and done card
03:10 PM _unreal_: the 7i96? card
03:11 PM _unreal_: or a serial expansion
03:11 PM Tom_L: 7i96
03:11 PM _unreal_: wondering how I should setup my limit switches
03:11 PM Tom_L: the serial is just there if you do need more
03:11 PM _unreal_: I could have +/- switches ore tie them together
03:11 PM Tom_L: mine are separate
03:12 PM _unreal_: depends on I/O's
03:12 PM _unreal_: and as You said adding more
03:12 PM _unreal_: I could add a parallel port card as well :)
03:12 PM Tom_L: NC iirc for switches
03:12 PM _unreal_: active low?
03:12 PM Tom_L: so any broken wire etc will cause a fault
03:13 PM _unreal_: That spindle motor controller looks like its going to be a PAIN in the ass to setup
03:13 PM Tom_L: it will take some doing yes
03:13 PM Tom_L: just be methodical with it
03:14 PM _unreal_: and I dont mean the serial interfacing I mean the wiring and operational settings
03:14 PM Tom_L: you might find someone here or on the forum that has one
03:14 PM _unreal_: it seems to be a common vfd
03:16 PM _unreal_: can the outputs be used as inputs?
03:16 PM Tom_L: not normally
03:16 PM _unreal_: figured
03:16 PM _unreal_: so 6 outputs
03:17 PM _unreal_: right off the bad thats... ? vacuum
03:17 PM _unreal_: spindle is serial
03:17 PM _unreal_: vacuum and motor power enable
03:17 PM Tom_L: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/27-driver-boards/35375-2-2kw-vfd-spindle-wiring-to-mesa-7i76e
03:18 PM _unreal_: thats 7i96e
03:18 PM Tom_L: e ethernet
03:18 PM _unreal_: and a different spindle
03:19 PM Tom_L: probably similar
03:19 PM _unreal_: mine has ethernet but its not an E
03:19 PM _unreal_: card
03:19 PM Tom_L: https://wapl.es/cnc/2015/12/04/huanyang-linuxcnc-2.7-speed-control.html
03:20 PM _unreal_: regardless thats signal line control not serial
03:22 PM Tom_L: that last one is using the hy_vfd driver
03:49 PM BitEvil_ is now known as SpeedEvil
04:15 PM Deejay: gn8
04:35 PM Tom_L: man where'd that 80 deg weather go.. 37°F
04:41 PM XXCoder: 60s f this week
04:41 PM XXCoder: ugh coming hot weather\
05:04 PM skunkworks: Rab: no - I didn't make them either...
05:04 PM skunkworks: snowing here
05:06 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I have it :)
05:06 PM _unreal_: lol
05:12 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200412_171037.jpg
05:13 PM andypugh: Here is what I did today.
05:13 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/PjprYu4wNgnwSm629
05:13 PM Tom_L: explain
05:13 PM andypugh: That curved surface is actually a very special shape.
05:14 PM andypugh: It’s to set the angle of my swinging table accurately.
05:14 PM skunkworks: andypugh: so you can adjust the angle precicely?
05:14 PM andypugh: Indeed.
05:14 PM skunkworks: cool! what is the shape? parablic?
05:14 PM Tom_L: how do thousandths translate to deg?
05:14 PM _unreal_: one at a time
05:14 PM Tom_L: err mm in your case
05:14 PM XXCoder: sin/cos calculation
05:15 PM andypugh: The offset from the pivot is 57.29 mm, so 1mm is 1 degree (1 / tan(1) )
05:15 PM andypugh: For small angles.
05:15 PM XXCoder: or tan lol
05:15 PM andypugh: But then the curve is set up to correct for the disparity as the angle increases.
05:16 PM andypugh: I don’t know if the shape has a name. It might well be an involute.
05:16 PM skunkworks: Neat!
05:16 PM Tom_L: was it there or did you make the curve also?
05:17 PM andypugh: I generated it in CAD and them machined it with LinuxCNC.
05:17 PM andypugh: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Uhx8pktZrjHs8DtL8
05:17 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200412_155322.jpg
05:18 PM skunkworks: andypugh: making more gears?
05:18 PM skunkworks: Hobbing?
05:18 PM andypugh: Giving up on the PLL then?
05:18 PM skunkworks: andypugh: for now - I have a 5000 line, 20000 count encoder to try.
05:18 PM andypugh: Yes, I am expecting a shaft that needs a gear putting on from a guy from Youtube.
05:18 PM skunkworks: andypugh: Cool!
05:19 PM andypugh: It’s for this lathe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzaSNSyuSlk
05:21 PM XXCoder: its funny how pile of junk can be turned into machine that can do precision
05:24 PM skunkworks: that used to be a precision machine?
05:24 PM andypugh: The Holbrook lathe? Absolutely.
05:24 PM skunkworks: :)
05:25 PM Tom_L: is that the one you cast a gearbox for?
05:25 PM andypugh: It will be again, he is close to finished with it.
05:25 PM skunkworks: was he missing the gear or was it broken?
05:25 PM andypugh: No, I cast the gearbox for my on Holbrook, rather newer and different to that one.
05:25 PM andypugh: He wants to make a less-worn cross-slide screw.
05:26 PM skunkworks: Neat
06:13 PM _unreal_: skunkworks, you get that thing working yet :)
06:13 PM _unreal_: hehe
06:14 PM _unreal_: OHHHHHHH skunkworks I get it..... index finger :)
06:14 PM _unreal_: thats the new encoder the indexer finger ;)
07:13 PM skunkworks: 20,000 counts pre rev that finger has...
07:14 PM Tom_L: what'd you steal the encoder off of?
07:16 PM XXCoder: you
07:16 PM Tom_L: naw i never had nuthin that nice
07:20 PM Choscura is now known as JewZeus
07:29 PM JewZeus is now known as Choscura
07:47 PM _unreal_: any one seen my brand new encoder
08:03 PM Thorhian: How's it going everyone?
08:04 PM andypugh: Wierdly?
08:04 PM Thorhian: That could be good or bad?
08:04 PM andypugh: It’s Sunday night, but I a not allowed to go to work tomorrow
08:05 PM andypugh: So I guess I will have to do LinuxCNC or machining or something. I admit, it could be a lot worse.
08:05 PM XXCoder: not essental?
08:05 PM XXCoder: you an machinist?
08:05 PM Thorhian: I guess it's different for me. I just finished a semester for school so I'm in break mode.
08:06 PM XXCoder: hm not running goverment stuff I guess
08:07 PM andypugh: No, I work on engine development for a car company. But nobody is buying cars at the moment.
08:07 PM Thorhian: Yeah that would be a problem.
08:07 PM XXCoder: yeah
08:08 PM andypugh: (And I really wonder how many motorcycle manufacturers will survive this missing summer)
08:08 PM XXCoder: good question
08:08 PM XXCoder: depends on what buffer they have
08:08 PM XXCoder: closed lowers expenses a lot
08:08 PM XXCoder: but still need rent, etc
08:08 PM Thorhian: Oh that is true. A lot of there sales would be coming up right now with the weather getting warmer.
08:11 PM _unreal_: I'm trying to pick what stock I want to purchase tomorrow
08:12 PM Thorhian: Does anyone know of any decent spindle brands/sellers that aren't too expensive?
08:12 PM Thorhian: I was looking at the standard Mechatron spindles and for anything somewhat powerful (2.2kw or higher) they are just way too much.
08:13 PM Rab: .87
08:13 PM Rab: oops
08:13 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, what is your use
08:13 PM andypugh: Thorhian: There are names I have heard of, and then there are brands I can afford.
08:13 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, how much power do you need WHAT are you cutting
08:13 PM Thorhian: Aluminum, steel.
08:14 PM andypugh: Though there are a few in the overlap
08:14 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, steel your looking at a 2.2kw likely
08:14 PM _unreal_: not as much for the POWER but for the thick shaft on the spindle
08:14 PM _unreal_: steel your not going to want an ER11
08:14 PM _unreal_: your going to want a LOT more meat
08:15 PM Thorhian: Which is why I was looking for 2.2KW and something that could take a ER20 collet (or larger, but that means more $$$)
08:15 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, aliexpress my friend. or amazon
08:15 PM _unreal_: take your pick
08:15 PM andypugh: I wouldn’t go with anything with a collet.
08:16 PM Thorhian: What do you mean Andy?
08:16 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, I litteraly just got this https://www.amazon.com/MYSWEETY-Cooled-Spindle-Converter-Collet/dp/B01N1EJEQ1/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=1.5kw+spindle&qid=1585873038&sr=8-2
08:16 PM _unreal_: andypugh, are you talking about auto tool change?
08:17 PM andypugh: Maybe look at something like this (you provide the motor) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192134817806
08:17 PM Thorhian: Have you used something like this andypugh?
08:18 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, counting shipping thats 50% percent of a 2.2kw spindle then you have to pick and have a belt driven motor
08:18 PM _unreal_: or direct drive
08:19 PM andypugh: Thorhian: No.
08:19 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, thats a reduction head btw
08:19 PM Thorhian: Personally I don't think I'd mind a BT30 ATC spindle lol.
08:19 PM _unreal_: meaning low rpm good for cutting steel not good for cutting materials that are better with high RPM
08:20 PM andypugh: But I have a milling machine with a BT30 spindle, and a quantity of toolholders, and I really could not imafine working with a collet spindle.
08:20 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, your choice. Again design to WHAT you plan to do with the machine.
08:21 PM XXCoder: any toolchanger is nice to have (even if you change it yourself, but its repeatable)
08:21 PM XXCoder: and if it have that, you can add toolchanger scripts and configure locations to drop off and pick up next tool
08:21 PM andypugh: Yes, its about repeatable, not speed,
08:22 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, do you plan on milling steel mostly or other materials mostly?
08:22 PM _unreal_: soft materials
08:22 PM _unreal_: aluminum, wood, plastic
08:22 PM Thorhian: My plans for the machine are for milling large blocks of aluminum but I also want it to be strong enough for tool steel (not as fast but good enough).
08:22 PM andypugh: Though I do enjoy using my pneumatic drawbar. 10 years on it has been 100% reliable, it’s actually the most depandable thing I have ever made, much to my surprise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxrzJ_KfcQ0
08:23 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, if your milling aluminum you want high rpm
08:23 PM _unreal_: depending on the grade and the milling method
08:23 PM XXCoder: nice!
08:23 PM andypugh: _unreal_: Or, potentially, lower RPM and big tools.
08:24 PM XXCoder: andy is it default hold?
08:24 PM XXCoder: ie normal state is always holding tool
08:24 PM Thorhian: 6061 mostly. Also, I'd like to be able to use things like facing mills. I think you need more torque for those tools, less RPM.
08:24 PM _unreal_: andypugh, back when you where young and beautiful
08:25 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, yes
08:25 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, you can do a stacked pully setup
08:25 PM andypugh: I was certainly younger and beatifuller. I had pigment in my beard.
08:25 PM pink_vampire: after I did the HEX mod to my drawbar, I'm super happer, and I can use the same handle for the vice and the drawbar,
08:25 PM pink_vampire: vise**
08:26 PM XXCoder: just had random thought
08:26 PM _unreal_: random
08:26 PM XXCoder: automated vise heh
08:26 PM XXCoder: specify torque and it does it
08:26 PM XXCoder: make it repeatable
08:26 PM _unreal_: 400 lbs SHIT I ment 40
08:27 PM _unreal_: lol
08:27 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: there is something like that.
08:27 PM XXCoder: not surpised
08:27 PM Rab: My mill uses MT2 collets, chews right through tool steel and stainless...I've never spun an endmill. I have slipped the drive belt.
08:28 PM Thorhian: lol what?
08:28 PM pink_vampire: I want caliper with keypad, that open automatically
08:28 PM XXCoder: that'd be fancy though to minimalize you probably want it to use bt
08:28 PM _unreal_: Rab, in high I got my BLDC cable soldered today for my spindle
08:29 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: I'm talking about something portable
08:29 PM XXCoder: yeah
08:30 PM XXCoder: bt is bluetooth, so can control it with say phone
08:30 PM Rab: I would use an ER20 or ER32 toolholder with confidence. But it's a rather light mill, so I keep DoC very conservative.
08:31 PM pink_vampire: my milling head on the lathe take MT2
08:31 PM Rab: _unreal_, got any pics?
08:32 PM Thorhian: Have any you ever worked with HSK taper spindles?
08:33 PM andypugh: pink_vampire: MT is not really great for milling. It is perfect for what it was designed for (lathes and drills) but in any application where you might want to pull, it’s a bit poor.
08:33 PM Rab: Thorhian, I've never heard of it before, but based on the description I think you'd want to price HSK toolholders before nabbing a good deal on an HSK spindle.
08:34 PM andypugh: It’s also long. R8 has the same problem, you can’t necessarily get the tools in and out without moving the work out of the way.
08:34 PM pink_vampire: I know, but according to the manual it is a mill
08:34 PM pink_vampire: I think ER is fine for the home shop
08:35 PM Thorhian: They are hollow taper shanks Rab
08:35 PM Rab: Thorhian, right
08:36 PM andypugh: BT / CAT / ISO and all the other 7/24 tapers are better that way. But HSK wins.
08:36 PM Rab: andypugh, for milling applications you would use drawbar threaded MT of course.
08:36 PM andypugh: If course, but they still need a lot of headroom for tool changes
08:37 PM Rab: andypugh, I agree with that.
08:37 PM andypugh: If you are choosing a spindle for a new machine, and all other things being equal, it makes sense to choose BT or HSK
08:38 PM Thorhian: Yeah for me it will probably be a BT since HSK stuff seems to be a lot harder to get. Not very popular in chinese products either,
08:39 PM andypugh: BT is pretty affordable: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BT30-ER16-70L-Collet-Block-Chuck-Holder-Rod-for-CNC-Milling-Machine-Tool/113850047119?hash=item1a81fdda8f:g:tCIAAOSwGylejy-J]
08:39 PM Thorhian: I do love some german engineering, just too much money for my poor college student wallet.
08:40 PM Thorhian: Does BT30 go above ER16 as well?
08:40 PM Thorhian: Seems I have found some already.
08:42 PM andypugh: Thorhian: If you are a student, and therefore both time rich and cash poor… I am sure that there is a great solution based on a generic motor, that spindle I linked to, two different belt drive ratios, electromagnetic vehicle air conditioning clutches and roller-bearing clutches.
08:43 PM Thorhian: Oh I am time rich ATM, I'm not in school lol.
08:43 PM Rab: Thorhian, I see BT30-to-ER32 toolholders.
08:43 PM Thorhian: And I'm not totally broke, but I'm not blowing all my savings on a spingle, especially if it cost nearly the same or more than the rest of the machine.
08:44 PM andypugh: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AIR-CONDITIONER-COMPRESSOR-MAGNETIC-CLUTCH-AUDI-SKODA-VW-SEAT-FORD-THERMOTEC-OEM/324109277599?epid=9021167960&hash=item4b766b199f:g:ke0AAOSw1ZJedQPl
08:45 PM andypugh: I have a 125mm face cutter on a BT30 shank
08:45 PM XXCoder: andypugh: yeah pretty cheap. i bought one bit ago for demonstation uses for event that got cancelled
08:45 PM Rab: Thorhian, what's your realistic budget for a spindle? $200, $500, $1500?
08:46 PM Thorhian: For the spindle itself (including motor), probably $450 max. ATC has seemed out of reach so that's why I was planning on just getting a collet spindle.
08:46 PM XXCoder: just getting atc makes you save so much time
08:47 PM Rab: Thorhian, depending on the spindle, you may need to price in VFD too.
08:47 PM andypugh: https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/153378905219
08:47 PM XXCoder: since you dont set it each time. unless you set tlo tooling script
08:47 PM Thorhian: Oh I want it lol XXXCoder. I do. I'm just not sure if it's going to happen at first.
08:48 PM XXCoder: saw one that uses laser to do rough measurement then pad to do fine measure.
08:48 PM XXCoder: then it does rapid right into barely above vise. scary.
08:49 PM andypugh: Well, $450 is not far off a generic BT30 spindle (such as I linked to, but of which I have absolutely no experience) a generic VFD ans a standard 3 phase motor. There is a fair bit of money in the pulleys and drives, don’t ignore that.
08:50 PM XXCoder: found it!
08:50 PM XXCoder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-S4RXMdlrY
08:50 PM XXCoder: check that out guys
08:50 PM Thorhian: Yeah. I'd love to just do a belt drive but I'm not sure. I'm not exactly experienced with this stuff. Just trying to learn.
08:51 PM Rab: Thorhian, are you in USA?
08:51 PM Thorhian: Yes.
08:51 PM andypugh: But you can fit an ER20 holder and collet in that, and be in just the same place, but with the option to change belt ratios and motor power, make an ATC and use repeatable tooling
08:52 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: his vise jaws O_O
08:52 PM XXCoder: heh ending still scares crap out of me
08:52 PM andypugh: Thorhian: We are all learning, but some of us starterted earlier.
08:53 PM Rab: Thorhian, there's plenty of this kinda thing: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B010FIQ80M
08:53 PM XXCoder: yep no such thing as born with cnc knowledge :D
08:53 PM Rab: 2.2KW might be a little ambitious, but it would probably do something to steel at some depth of cut.
08:54 PM Thorhian: If an MPCNC can make some cuts in steel with a Dewalt 660DW, then this could do some steel (just not very fast).
08:54 PM Rab: Sometimes the chinese spindles aren't particularly well-built or reliable, but that one's stocked domestically by Amazon.com so you could always send it back if it's dead out of the box.
08:54 PM andypugh: 2.2kW is plenty for steel at the right speed.
08:54 PM Thorhian: Yep
08:55 PM andypugh: Those integrated spindles are useless below 6000 rpm, though.
08:55 PM Thorhian: So yeah, I was looking at the Amazon options. It's either something like that or a BT30 setup.
08:55 PM Rab: Yeah, 2.2KW is surely at 24KRPM.
08:55 PM andypugh: So if you want to use face mills, you are out of luck.
08:56 PM Thorhian: Yeah. Those wont be an option with that kind of spindle :/
08:57 PM andypugh: My spindle is _definitely_ too slow. It maxes out at 1000 rpm. But I reckon I am less limited in what I can do than those with too-fast spindles.
08:57 PM pink_vampire: why he need the laser if he is using the copper plate??
08:58 PM Tom_L: andypugh, you could probably wind a car spring with the spindle though :D
08:58 PM andypugh: I _have_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thtDRjgbxRE
08:58 PM Thorhian: Holy....
08:58 PM Tom_L: i remembered that...
08:59 PM andypugh: That’s 2hp, with gearing.
09:00 PM andypugh: 2,2kw is plenty
09:01 PM Thorhian: Yeah...
09:04 PM Thorhian: I'm familiar with the term/general idea of a clutch, but what were those different kinds that you were talking about andypugh?
09:04 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfaQbrQO2AQ I really liked this video that you made.
09:05 PM andypugh: You should probably buy a set of NEMA23 steppers, a TB(wahatever) 4 axis driver board, the cheapest ER11 spindle and Mach3, and just accept that was in investment in learning what you really needed
09:06 PM Thorhian: Huh?
09:06 PM Thorhian: Also, there is no way I'd use Mach3. I'm not running windows to run a CNC Mill or router.
09:07 PM andypugh: I am not kidding, that’s how my CNC career has gone (minus the Mach3, but, to be fair, I believe the community support is good, and it does work perfectly well, apart from lathes, and threading)
09:08 PM andypugh: I am really saying that your first CNC will not be your forever CNC.
09:08 PM Thorhian: I mean, I've already dealt with 3D printers and built an MPCNC as a router for small amounts aluminum and wood.
09:09 PM andypugh: I bought a Chinese Mill/Lathe combo, converted it on the cheap, and learnt a lot. Mainly I learned not to buy a cheap Chinese mill-lathe combo.
09:09 PM Thorhian: XD
09:10 PM andypugh: My most recent conversion cost me more in Mesa cards than the entire first conversion…
09:10 PM Thorhian: If only my current FPGA board could be used as a Mesa card lol.
09:11 PM andypugh: Which FPGA?
09:11 PM Thorhian: It's a Xilinx board. It's not really meant for this kind of thing (and requires stuff like Vivado to program).
09:11 PM andypugh: Mesa Hostmot2 is open-source, the VHDL is all there for download.
09:12 PM Thorhian: Oh.
09:12 PM andypugh: And Mesa use Xilinx
09:12 PM andypugh: If it’s a Spartan, it ought to work
09:13 PM Thorhian: It's a Nexys 4 DDR, a Digilent board. It uses an Artix-7, not a spartan. That might be an interesting project for later though.
09:14 PM andypugh: pcw_home: Does Hostmot2 run on Artix?
09:15 PM andypugh: (pcw knows more than anyone about Mesa firmware)
09:17 PM pcw_home: Theres someone running it on Artix so its doable (Artix is a superset of SP6)
09:17 PM pcw_home: but I have not done it (but will later this year)
09:18 PM Thorhian: So yeah, that's why I'm trying to minmax my situation and try to do my research for building this machine. I'm going nema34, not 23.
09:18 PM Thorhian: I'm also not totally afraid of programming or especially Linux either. I'm a CS major. It's machining that I'm really trying to learn.
09:19 PM Thorhian: With CNC of course :)
09:19 PM pcw_home: People have ported Hostmot2 to Altera which is a much bigger change
09:21 PM Thorhian: I wonder if I have enough available IO for something like Mesa firmware, let alone logic real estate.
09:23 PM andypugh: Do the maths, look at the curves. NEMA 34 tend to be a bit slow. Sometimes a geared NEMA 23 can do better than a 34. (and that extends over bigger and smaller). On my Chinese mill/lathe/boat anchor the only axis that was never a problem was the lathe X / Mill Y which was a short-stack 23 with an 8mm ball screw.
09:23 PM pcw_home: Almost any Artix is likely overkill for Hostmot2
09:24 PM Thorhian: Does Hostmot2 need RAM?
09:24 PM pcw_home: a bit
09:25 PM pcw_home: (all on chip)
09:25 PM Thorhian: Is 128MB DDR2 good enough?
09:25 PM Thorhian: Oh.
09:26 PM andypugh: If you look at servos they have pitiful torque compared to steppers, but the fact they happily run 10x faster maens that, with gearing, they generally win except for cost.
09:27 PM Thorhian: Having looked at the curves and other machines I was considering 8.3Nm Closed loop steppers.
09:27 PM Thorhian: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/cnc-kit/1-axis-closed-loop-stepper-kit-8-25-nm-1168-53-oz-in-nema-34-closed-loop-stepper-motor-driver.html?mfp=251-open-loop-closed-loop%5BClosed-loop%5D%2C161-motor-nema-size%5BNema%2034%5D%2C156-holding-torque-ncm%5B460%2C480%2C580%2C600%2C825%2C850%2C1150%2C1200%2C1300%2C3000%5D
09:32 PM andypugh: The closed-loop steppers are really brushless servos. 50-pole servos, so not super fast, but basically they run as servos.
09:33 PM andypugh: They’re a good choice, I believe, bit have not tried them.
09:34 PM Thorhian: What? They are just stepper motors with encoders though?
09:35 PM Thorhian: The wiring sure makes them look like a stepper too.
09:35 PM Thorhian: Brushless servos are just brushless motors with encoders as well *shrug
09:37 PM andypugh: And a stepper is just a 2-phase, 50 pole, brushless motor.
09:38 PM Thorhian: I guess you are right lol.
09:39 PM andypugh: BLCD / Servo / Stepper are just a bunch of coils arranged around a magnetic rotor. What you call them is a lot more about how you drive them than what they physically are.
09:40 PM skunkworks: Tom_L: a while back they were on ebay cheap.
09:43 PM Thorhian: If I had the money I'd totally be down for something like this though https://www.ebay.com/itm/Combo-ATC-Tool-Change-Spindle-Motor-BT30-3kw-18krpm-NBT30-VFD-4kw/184247770406?hash=item2ae605dd26:g:X9cAAOSwd1tdstV0
09:49 PM Rab: They claim that spindle is 16kg/35lbs, which is a lot to move around. You might rather use that with a Z-axis stage on a fixed column.
09:49 PM andypugh: That does seem like a good package, assuming it is all real, and not made of chocolate, or actually intended asmodels for a dolls-hoiuse machine shop
09:50 PM andypugh: Is that a set of collets in the part-yellow boxes? I don’t see them in the packing list
09:51 PM Thorhian: I believe that is the Vietnamise seller that this person bought their spindle from: https://youtu.be/i4q95Czq7pc
09:52 PM Thorhian: Yes, it is.
09:53 PM Thorhian: Also, the plan was to use a fixed column Rab
09:54 PM Rab: Thorhian, word
09:54 PM Thorhian: Linear rails will be HGR20 for all of the axis along with 16mm ballscrews.
09:55 PM Rab: That mill in the video looks pretty nice.
09:56 PM Thorhian: Indeed, I watched the whole series. I liked the idea of using a counterweight (or something that pushes up on the Z assembly).
10:09 PM andypugh: If you have a compressor then the perfect counterwight is a pnrumatic cylinder and _releiving_ regulator.
10:09 PM skunkworks: or the same if you have hydraulics.. ;)
10:10 PM skunkworks: andypugh: shouldn't you be sleeping
10:10 PM andypugh: A real counterwight doubles the axis mass, so slows you down
10:10 PM skunkworks: (the K&T has hydraulic couterbalance..)
10:10 PM Thorhian: releiving regulating?
10:11 PM andypugh: skunkworks: It’s only 4am. and I am on lockdown. Time is just a number.
10:12 PM Thorhian: Oh yeah you are in the UK (Based on all the ebay links you have been sending me).
10:12 PM andypugh: Thorhian: Some (most) regulators only let gas in to add pressure. Releiving regulators can also vent it to drop pressure.
10:13 PM skunkworks: andypugh: yes - but when / if things get back to normal - you are going to have a rough time..
10:13 PM andypugh: I really would like to make a servo-hydraulic CNC
10:13 PM Thorhian: Ah, I see.
10:13 PM skunkworks: some of my friends have kids that are now sleeping until noon... that is going be a bitch..
10:14 PM Thorhian: RIP
10:14 PM skunkworks: andypugh: cylinders or motors?
10:15 PM skunkworks: we have the cincinati that still has hydraulic motors on the 2 axis... It is tempting to try them out (using linuxcnc as the control for the valves..)
10:15 PM Thorhian: Do you guys know what high end CNC milling machines use to move their axis? I heard someone talking about a DMG Mori machine that didn't use ballscrews for some of the axis.
10:15 PM skunkworks: I think you would just have to inject a signal to keep them from sticking..
10:16 PM andypugh: skunkworks: Not really, I so this a lot, I used to do a lot of gaming with US pirate crews, I can be back in synch in a day. And… Yacht racing. that’s 4 on / 4 off 24 hours a day for a month,
10:16 PM skunkworks: I would be hurting.. Cool.
10:17 PM skunkworks: Thorhian: linear motors? No clue.
10:18 PM andypugh: Thorhian: Hydrauilic servos are vey strong, can be very fast, are _very_ expensive and absorb a lot of power
10:20 PM andypugh: In fact my first ever experience with PID was running a servo-hydraulic testing machine during my second postdoc job.
10:20 PM skunkworks: Z axis... http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cincinnatimi/piston.JPG
10:20 PM skunkworks: direct drive to a 3? inch ball screw. it is big
10:23 PM skunkworks: BTW - the k&t started acting funny today. I would try to unclamp the tool from the spindle and the computer would lock up. (and the machine would go into estop) after futsing around for a bit - I pushed on one of the mesa cards and it went in about 1/8 inch. Reseated the 2 mesa cards and memory. started working normally again.
10:23 PM pink_vampire: Someone know maybe where can I fine plans for this little baby? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTjbs3Hg2PA
10:24 PM andypugh: You could set that up to run displacement or force control, so you had to be able to tweak the gains depending on the control mode and the specimen beong tested. But when you consider it was running +/- 1mm oscillations at 250kN and 10Hz it’s a dream CNC control
10:26 PM XXCoder: pink yeah never did find ny plans
10:26 PM andypugh: “Send questions to andk_0@mail.ru”
10:27 PM XXCoder: 3500 usd before shipping
10:27 PM XXCoder: yeah dont think guy will gve plans for free
10:27 PM pink_vampire: how complicated is to re-design something like that?
10:28 PM XXCoder: i dont know, but it dont seem complex
10:28 PM XXCoder: just very thick round rails ballscrews and huge steppers
10:29 PM XXCoder: the injector side im pretty sure is just compacting screw
10:29 PM XXCoder: maybe with some heating element
10:30 PM pink_vampire: but it is only 2cm^3
10:32 PM andypugh: This is what you can do with servo-hydraulics and big pumps.
10:32 PM andypugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83PsmzwkVSs
10:32 PM andypugh: We have a few of those rigs at work. They are drivem by a farm of 24 100hp pumps…
10:35 PM pink_vampire: WOW
10:36 PM skunkworks: but that is british HP.. You have to multiply it by .03937...
10:36 PM skunkworks: ;)
10:36 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: this is 1.8 mega watt!
10:37 PM andypugh: Yes, that’s partly why we are shut down…
10:38 PM andypugh: We are a really expensive facility to run below max.
10:39 PM andypugh: Our hydraulic ring-main is a) 6” diameter and b) Pink.
10:50 PM pink_vampire: andypugh: crazy!!!
10:59 PM XXCoder: just read weird news
11:00 PM XXCoder: panda finally mated
11:00 PM XXCoder: probably due to lack of peepers from people
11:01 PM pink_vampire: nice
11:12 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/VmWeXS6y-lg
11:20 PM pink_vampire: skunkworks: WOW you have some nice toys!
11:22 PM andypugh: Does the K&T appear in the video?
11:24 PM skunkworks: yes
11:26 PM skunkworks: it is my go-to machine.