#linuxcnc Logs

Apr 09 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:36 AM Deejay: moin
01:48 AM sensille: i think i've seen a gooseneck style mount for a dial indicator which can be fixed/made rigid with a screw, but can't find it anymore
02:29 AM Loetmichel: *giggle* boss just came by. "I will order all of you to do overtime for the next few weeks. In writing!". $me sits there looking questioning. Boss "Yeah, i know you dont give a shi**!". $me still looks questioning at him. He develops a pulsating vein at his neck... $me shrugs and rurns back to his work. Boss "steams" back to his office. :-)
04:20 AM XXCoder: Loetmichel: just got inverse of overtime
04:52 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: You have SUCH a great boss there... NOT!
04:53 AM jymmmm: NEWSFLASH: "Employee charged with homicide after staring at Boss with 'deer in headlight' look on face"
05:01 AM jthornton: morning
05:02 AM XXCoder: hey jt I just got inverse of overtime
05:02 AM jthornton: undertime
05:02 AM XXCoder: yep
05:03 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: how many hours now?
05:03 AM XXCoder: 8 hours a day
05:03 AM jymmmm: good morning
05:03 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: better than 20 /week
05:03 AM XXCoder: 32 hours a week. now
05:03 AM XXCoder: jy yeah
05:03 AM jthornton: for 4 days?
05:04 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:04 AM XXCoder: jy yeah it might still go down to that later
05:04 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: less work or ???
05:04 AM XXCoder: way less jobs than before
05:05 AM jymmmm: ah
05:07 AM XXCoder: i just read that air pollution makes covid-19 worse
05:07 AM XXCoder: no wonder ny is hit so hard
05:08 AM jthornton: I say it's hard to social distance when millions live on a tiny island
05:08 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:08 AM XXCoder: india is starting to have trouble
05:08 AM XXCoder: people got infected in their super dense areas
05:08 AM XXCoder: 32,000 people per sq ft
05:12 AM jymmmm: per sq ft?! what are they stanidng on each others heads???
05:14 AM jthornton: 20 days till my new peeps ship
05:14 AM XXCoder: dammit
05:14 AM XXCoder: i meant sq/mi
05:19 AM jymmmm: SF Bay area population denisty is 9000/sq mile, national average is 1500/sq mile, NYC is 29K/ sq mile
05:21 AM XXCoder: india has 3 of top 5 most dense regions
05:21 AM XXCoder: fun
05:22 AM jymmmm: Amazon upsell video "Top 10 Coolest Knives for Self Defense", 2.8" blade, yeah you are just gonna piss someone off, better get grandma to have your back with 14" knitting needles instead, OG.... GMa Thug Life
05:23 AM XXCoder: lol
05:23 AM XXCoder: unless youre flash
05:23 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: knifes are shit for self defense anyways. better have a piece of 2" lead pipe at hand
05:24 AM Loetmichel: or a nice "night stick" from the MP
05:24 AM XXCoder: ideally with slight curve at one end with some stains
05:24 AM XXCoder: scare people off
05:24 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:24 AM jthornton: Momma said never bring a knife to a gun fight
05:24 AM Loetmichel: a LOT more effective than a knife of any size
05:25 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: guns are crap in close quarters situtaions, too
05:25 AM jthornton: never let them get that close
05:25 AM XXCoder: guns for distance and knucleduster for near fight
05:25 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: sounds like a good combo
05:25 AM jthornton: a gun works up close too
05:26 AM Loetmichel: i like some piece of lead or hicory better though, doesent hurt as much if you block a knife with that than with your knuickles
05:26 AM Loetmichel: jthornton: its not easy to bring it to bear on the enemy though in close quarters
05:27 AM jthornton: never let them get close...
05:28 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Yeah, social distancing =)
05:28 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: a baseball bat is fine for that, too
05:28 AM Loetmichel: "if i can reach you with it you are to close"
05:28 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:29 AM jymmmm: I jsut saw a pepper gun; it's a co2 powered gun, shoots a pepper ball up to 60ft
05:30 AM Loetmichel: sounds evil
05:30 AM jthornton: in Missouri it's an open carry state which means you can walk in anywhere with a pistol on your belt
05:32 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Already cued for pepperball gun... https://youtu.be/sPtcq9ylCj0?t=392
05:34 AM Loetmichel: looks like you could fire them with any paintball gun
05:35 AM jymmmm: .58 or .68mm iirc
05:36 AM * Loetmichel once made a paintball 190m/sec fast... wouldnt want to stand where THAT impacts
05:37 AM jymmmm: There is a bolo gun in that same video, now THAT looks scary
07:50 AM gregcnc: did anyone get a refund from your car insurance?
08:09 AM unterhaus_: our insurance sends once a year. Last year was a pretty good year
09:52 AM Loetmichel: *giggle* just ran the program that faces off the vacuum table on the CNC mill... 40mm router slotting bit, 24kRPM, phenolic faceplate on the vacuum table. came back into the shop: why is that a white front glass now??? *open* "AHHH, THAT SMELL!"... wasnt white. was just loads of phenolic smoke ;)
09:53 AM Loetmichel: tickles the nose "a bit" ;)
09:54 AM Loetmichel: i think that router bit is a wee bit dull ;)
10:34 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel, Phenol Exposure may cause skin irritation and liver and kidney damage. be careful
10:53 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: i know, thank you
10:53 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Phenol smoke causes Covid-20 virus
10:55 AM Loetmichel: what i do at the moment could end in liver failure and skin irritation as well... milling a 50mm by 40mm by 4mm c-chanell thats only glued to the machine with CA glue... with a 6mm tungsten carbide twoflute thats 56mm out of the ER11 chuck...
10:55 AM jymmmm: bloody hands, toxic smoke, I'm beginning to think you would be the OSHA poster child =)
10:55 AM Loetmichel: i HOPE that the 4mm thick polycarbonate front lid of the machine can cope with that energy should something go wrong ;)
10:58 AM Loetmichel: jymmmm: just a bit careless and clumsy
10:59 AM Loetmichel: nothing to worry about
11:03 AM sensille: nothing darwin can't handle
11:04 AM jymmmm: lol @ sensille
11:05 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: ...so says the one arm bloody man
11:11 AM Loetmichel: i still have all my appendages
11:12 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel, are they the same length they used to be?
11:12 AM jymmmm: HIGH FIVE Tom_L
11:12 AM Tom_L: :)
11:13 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: more or less ,)
11:13 AM Tom_L: you don't get more...
11:13 AM gregcnc: reference date would make a difference?
11:13 AM Loetmichel: one is a couple mm shorter ;)
11:13 AM Loetmichel: or was
11:14 AM Loetmichel: little mishap with a bandsaw ;)
11:14 AM Loetmichel: regrew though
11:16 AM Loetmichel: to channel that painter guy: "we dont make mistakes, just happy little accidents"
11:17 AM jymmmm: Bob Ross
11:17 AM Loetmichel: yes, thats the one
11:22 AM jymmmm: I HATE BOB ROSS, he takes a 8" paint brush and creates amazing artwork in like 30 seconds!!!!
11:23 AM Tom_L: he the guy with the fuzzy hair?
11:31 AM jymmmm: yeah, the fro
11:39 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:20 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:43 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
12:58 PM unterhaus_: watch out, Bob Ross' survivors will sue lcnc
12:59 PM jymmmm: Rube Goldberg Machine... But With GUNS!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-qXs05n8KQ
12:59 PM jymmmm: unterhaus_: He amazes me every time I see him
01:00 PM unterhaus_: If he could paint now, that would be pretty good for a dead guy
01:01 PM unterhaus_: actually, I don't think the people that own Bob Ross' company are relatives. Some hinky business about that
01:02 PM unterhaus_: I seem to remember he would make multiple versions of each painting, so he didn't really like happy little accidents
02:07 PM skunkworks: I have the t-shirt.. wear it weekly
03:09 PM SpeedEvil is now known as TabletEvil
03:11 PM TabletEvil is now known as SpeedEvil_
03:11 PM SpeedEvil_ is now known as SpeedEvil
03:39 PM JT-Shop: wow I just found a bit of history... Mesa Packing Slip 9817 April, 2 2009 1 THC A-D PROTO BOARD
03:47 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, how's the weather over there?
03:47 PM Tom_L: was that about when you made your plasma?
03:48 PM JT-Shop: 67F here
03:48 PM JT-Shop: a couple of years after I made the plasma
03:48 PM Tom_L: yeah cooler than yesterday
03:48 PM Tom_L: kid found another trick on his honda..
03:48 PM Tom_L: the unlock thing you figured out?
03:48 PM JT-Shop: I ran it for a while without a THC and finally bugged pcw_mesa into making a THC card
03:49 PM Tom_L: ahh
03:49 PM JT-Shop: what did he find out?
03:49 PM Tom_L: he figured out if you put the key in from the fob to lock it, it will also roll UP all the windows
03:49 PM JT-Shop: the proto type is still in my plasma
03:50 PM JT-Shop: wow gotta try that
03:50 PM Tom_L: yeah, lemme know..
03:50 PM Tom_L: i told him about your find
03:50 PM JT-Shop: she's not home from work yet
03:50 PM Tom_L: works on the civics as well
03:50 PM JT-Shop: cool
03:50 PM * JT-Shop gets back to chicken work
03:51 PM * Tom_L gits back to virus watch
03:51 PM Tom_L: (boredom)
03:51 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Cube1.jpg
03:51 PM Tom_L: made one of those yesterday
03:52 PM JT-Shop: cool
03:52 PM Tom_L: a bit rusty... sliced my finger on a cutter
03:53 PM Tom_L: gotta keep up with Loetmichel :)
03:53 PM JT-Shop: °
03:53 PM JT-Shop: lol
03:55 PM Tom_L: when do the new residents arrive?
04:02 PM Deejay: gn8
04:25 PM unterhaus_: Tom_L that's pretty neat, I have thought about making the lathe version
04:27 PM Tom_L: turners cube?
04:27 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/TurnerCube.jpg
04:49 PM jymmmm: Tom_L nice job
04:52 PM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ?
05:48 PM _unreal_: hello
05:49 PM Tom_L: evening
05:52 PM pink_vampire: Hi everyone
05:53 PM _unreal_: well I've had nothing but gains in my stocks
05:53 PM _unreal_: :)
07:24 PM _unreal_: ve7it, just finished soldering all of my SMDs on my final board
07:26 PM _unreal_: ve7it, also the company I work for ordered this for me. paying them in a few installments https://www.amazon.com/MYSWEETY-Cooled-Spindle-Converter-Collet/dp/B01N1EJEQ1/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=1.5kv+spindle+motor&qid=1586478313&sr=8-13
07:26 PM _unreal_: arrived today I'm told. but stuck working on a remote Q@#R%Q#$%@#ERwqeR PROJECT
07:27 PM ve7it: cool...
07:27 PM _unreal_: other wise I would have picked it up
07:28 PM _unreal_: ve7it, next I need to figure out how to attach it to a 2x2" 1/4" thick square tubing
07:28 PM _unreal_: and still be able to fit though my 4x4" hole
07:28 PM _unreal_: I can make the hole wider a bit in one dimention KIND OF
07:31 PM _unreal_: ve7it, once I get this cnc going I'm going to need an A axis :)
07:47 PM Thorhian: Hello! I have been looking around on the forum lately and I was wondering if there was any up to date guides on what kind of hardware is good for LinuxCNC?
07:47 PM Thorhian: The wiki doesn't seem very up to date, especially since it is mentioned that only x86 is required.
07:49 PM Tom_L: http://store.mesanet.com/
07:49 PM Tom_L: mesa cards work very well with it
07:50 PM Tom_L: as far as motherboards pcw_home might have a recomendation
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: yes, mostly x86, some have the Rpi3 and Rpi4 working with LCNC, but it's not as tested as x86
07:51 PM Tom_L: newer hardware seems to do well with preempt-rt
07:51 PM Thorhian: Well, I've looked at them, especially after seeing a video from Marco Reps. Problem is that there seems to be a distaste for UEFIs.
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: RTAI doesn't work with UEFI yet
07:52 PM Thorhian: I'd love to use a Rpi4 with a Mesa FPGA board(s).
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: that may not be an issue for you
07:52 PM CaptHindsight: most x86 motherboards still offer legacy BIOS as well as UEFI
07:53 PM Thorhian: Oh crud is that the real time kernal extension?
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: are you considering using RTAI with a LPT port and software stepping or preemept_rt?
07:54 PM skunkworks: Thorhian: a few of us are running rpi4+mesa...
07:54 PM Thorhian: I am not knowledgeable enough to know what LPT and preemept_rt is. I am sorry. Still new.
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: well lets start with what kind of machine is this for?
07:54 PM CaptHindsight: how many axis?
07:55 PM Thorhian: I am planning on building a CNC mill, 3 axis with either open or probably closed loop steppers from stepperonline.
07:56 PM Thorhian: Brushless servos would kill my bank account.
07:56 PM skunkworks: Thorhian: almost anything will work for that ;)
07:57 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, i'm using a 7i90 on a parallel port for such a machine
07:57 PM Tom_L: the 7i80 ethernet version would work as well but requires preempt-rt
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: those stepper drives close the loop so you don't have to use LCNC for that part, just for Step and Dir
07:58 PM Tom_L: there are pci pcie options as well
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: do you already have a used PC that you were considering for this machine?
07:58 PM Thorhian: Unless I use a really old mobo I don't have any computers with a parallel port, so I would need to use a RPi or a newer mobo with a PCIe mesa card.
07:59 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: or are you looking to buy a new PC?
07:59 PM CaptHindsight: you can also get a PCI or PCIe to LPT card for $12
07:59 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, food for thought http://ve7it.cowlug.org/dspic-servo.html
07:59 PM Thorhian: I have some really old mobos/CPU, single core 2000's era stuff, but I'd rather use my newer Phenom II X6 woth an AM4 mobo. I could use it buy no parallel port.
08:00 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, there are many options
08:00 PM Tom_L: pci pcie works well
08:00 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, the first thing clearly is you need to write up a paper describing WHAT your finished device is going to be
08:01 PM _unreal_: so size of machine, features of machine, TORQUE of machine, speed inches per min movements etc....
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: heh, from the guy that never uses math
08:01 PM CaptHindsight: :p
08:01 PM _unreal_: bs
08:01 PM Thorhian: I guess I'm just wondering what would be sufficient to run a typical closed loop 3 axis mill hardware wise so I know computer would be good, but it seems like anything after 2005 would be good?
08:01 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, the idea is to give your self a guide on your build
08:02 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, no one can answer that because no one knwos details of your built
08:02 PM _unreal_: build
08:02 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: have you read about the latency test yet?
08:02 PM _unreal_: with out knowing how fast the machine is going to move. we dont know the pulse rate, if the pulse rate is to high parallel port is not going to be usable
08:02 PM Thorhian: I already have an idea of what motors, steppers, rails, ballscrews I'm going to use.
08:02 PM Thorhian: Only a little bit CaptHindsight.
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/install/latency-test.html
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: it's on the liveCD
08:03 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, I believe the parallel port is good upto around 30k pulse rate
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: you can put it on a flash drive and test your hardware
08:03 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, on top of that there are only so many pins
08:04 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, your not going to be able to get cloosed loop feed back to the PC just using a parallel port
08:04 PM _unreal_: single sorry
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: _unreal_: yes he can using the drives he mentioned
08:04 PM _unreal_: drives?
08:04 PM Thorhian: Yeah, I figure _unreal_, but the steppers themselves do the compensation so they handle the encoder feedback.
08:05 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/closed-loop-stepper-driver/
08:05 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, your not going to be able to get cloosed loop feed back to the PC just using a parallel port TO THE PC
08:05 PM _unreal_: so self contained
08:05 PM Thorhian: Sorry if I wasn't specific enough, I guess I don't plan on doing feed back to the pc, only the drivers at this point.
08:06 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, are you going to manually jog the machine at all?
08:06 PM _unreal_: meaning turning the lead screw system by hand
08:07 PM Thorhian: No.
08:07 PM _unreal_: ok not a problem them
08:08 PM _unreal_: how many devices do you plan to control? vacuum, spindle, spindle RPM, probe
08:09 PM Thorhian: But yeah, this is the combo I plan on using (Motor and driver). I plan on controlling the spindle, spindle RPM, and any future coolant system I will add onto it. I don't have enough experience with probes so it isn't in the plans.
08:09 PM _unreal_: also do you plan to upgrade later?
08:09 PM Thorhian: https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/cnc-kit/1-axis-closed-loop-stepper-kit-8-25-nm-1168-53-oz-in-nema-34-closed-loop-stepper-motor-driver.html?mfp=251-open-loop-closed-loop%5BClosed-loop%5D%2C161-motor-nema-size%5BNema%2034%5D%2C156-holding-torque-ncm%5B460%2C480%2C580%2C600%2C825%2C850%2C1150%2C1200%2C1300%2C3000%5D
08:09 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, there are different prob/sensors
08:09 PM _unreal_: for example a sensor for finding the zero offset for the big your using.
08:10 PM _unreal_: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61p6W96VhwL._AC_SY450_.jpg
08:10 PM _unreal_: https://dzevsq2emy08i.cloudfront.net/paperclip/technology_image_uploaded_images/25392/large/Z_probe_0016.jpg?1472490924
08:11 PM Thorhian: Is that for a tool offset?
08:11 PM _unreal_: yes
08:11 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, there are a few mothods
08:12 PM _unreal_: That one allows you to set the touch pad on the work piece. bring it close do a Z bit off set probing
08:12 PM Thorhian: That makes sense to me. That would be nice. I should probably plan on getting some sort of mesa card instead of relying on a single parallel port then.
08:12 PM _unreal_: That will then let the computer know how far away the end of the working tool bit is from the work surface
08:12 PM Thorhian: Yep.
08:13 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, Thats why I said you need to write up your overall goals
08:13 PM _unreal_: and ask us as you need to
08:13 PM _unreal_: then you can start filling in the blanks the (parts) of the machine in your document
08:14 PM _unreal_: also allows you to tally pricing and everything else
08:14 PM _unreal_: as to parallel/mesa card that totally depends on the parts and your needs
08:14 PM _unreal_: a parallel port may end up being way more then enough for you
08:14 PM _unreal_: or it could be very limiting
08:15 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, the spindle could even be bidirectional.. so you would need signal for that as well
08:15 PM Thorhian: Sounds good. I've been tallying my stuff for motion components (Rails, ball screws, steppers, drivers, PSU for steppers). I've just been thinking about what will drive the machine along with what spindle I should get (and whether or not I could shell out enough for ATC).
08:16 PM _unreal_: If you plan on adding a rotory axis later on maybe?
08:16 PM _unreal_: DONT buy parts till you know the working ablites of the parts you plan to buy
08:16 PM _unreal_: there are many types of rails
08:16 PM _unreal_: and some are WAY more rigid then others
08:16 PM _unreal_: WAY more
08:18 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, https://usa.banggood.com/13pcs-350mm-CNC-Parts-Optical-Axis-Guide-Bearing-Housings-Aluminum-Rail-Shaft-Support-Screws-Set-p-1256573.html?gmcCountry=US&currency=USD&createTmp=1&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_bgcs&utm_content=frank&utm_campaign=frank-ssc-usg-toys-tool-ele-newcustom-ncv80-0116&ad_id=411440960076&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj7v0BRDOARIsAGh37irRTQiwIsmxjS9qF2IgkXdQae2folvIXqqW05r5J7gntgvBum-1w8AaAqoQEALw_wc
08:18 PM _unreal_: B&cur_warehouse=CN
08:18 PM _unreal_: That kind of rail
08:18 PM _unreal_: fuck
08:18 PM Thorhian: You have linear guide rail advice? I was looking for some legit Hiwin HGR20 rails but they are really hard to come by (and ebay isn't exactly reliable).
08:18 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: there is a surplus Hiwin site
08:19 PM Tom_L: what size?
08:19 PM _unreal_: hgr20 is very good VERY $$ expensive
08:19 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: they also have Hiwin rail and nice chinese copies of the bearings, let me get the links
08:19 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, if those are in your budget HOW big is your budget
08:19 PM Thorhian: Thank you CaptHindsight :)
08:19 PM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-HGH20-Linear-Guide-Rail-CNC-Kit-Ballscrew-RM1605-400-700-1000mm-Nut-BK-BF12/114023794768?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144
08:19 PM Tom_L: i used that kit
08:19 PM Tom_L: not sure what size you need though
08:20 PM Thorhian: I've been looking at these if I have to get some chinese clones https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000095578877.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.51a7140daw6ovY&algo_pvid=556161bb-9c01-4103-86f5-af5f027f8158&algo_expid=556161bb-9c01-4103-86f5-af5f027f8158-1&btsid=0be3743b15864708934816085e6be9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
08:20 PM grandixximo: What time would be good to talk about S-Curve acceleration with the devs?
08:20 PM Tom_L: everything you need as far as rails and screws go
08:20 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.automation4less.com/store/hiwinlegacy.asp
08:21 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.automation-overstock.com
08:21 PM Tom_L: grandixximo, anytime but are you aware of #linuxcnc-devel?
08:21 PM grandixximo: no i wasn't
08:21 PM Tom_L: less general traffic there
08:21 PM Thorhian: Essentially I'm going for 2 rails per axis, 2 carriages per rail. Rail lengths would be 450mm, 500mm, and 700mm.
08:21 PM _unreal_: grandixximo, you been educated fooo
08:21 PM _unreal_: ;)
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: grandixximo: you might be better off posting on the LCNC forums
08:22 PM grandixximo: i already did
08:22 PM grandixximo: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/33459-linuxcnc-s-curve-accelerations
08:22 PM CaptHindsight: irc dev channel is pretty quiet
08:22 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, 450 on the Z?
08:23 PM _unreal_: thats about 18" plunge
08:23 PM Thorhian: 450 on Y, 700 on X, 500 on Z.
08:23 PM _unreal_: interesting design
08:24 PM _unreal_: your going to REALLLLY want a beefy bridge frame
08:24 PM Thorhian: Yep.
08:24 PM _unreal_: and you may want to look at larger rails
08:24 PM _unreal_: 500mm Z plunge that is a butt ton of torque on the bearings
08:25 PM Thorhian: Really? I thought HGH20 rails would be fine, especially with a counterweight on the Z.
08:25 PM _unreal_: your talking a 20" plunge
08:26 PM _unreal_: which is longer then that when you add in your spindle and milling bit's
08:26 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, that's basically the rail size i ended up with as i cut one down
08:26 PM _unreal_: your X frame is going to have racking forces
08:26 PM Tom_L: that kit would be a good fit for you
08:26 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, 20" Z and 30" X and Y is shortest
08:27 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, what materials are you looking at cutting?
08:27 PM _unreal_: wood, metal what kind of metal
08:27 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, i went with these steppers on mine as well: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3pcs-NEMA23-570OZ-IN-5A-3-8-DUAL-SHAFT-STEPPER-MOTOR/253223632606?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
08:28 PM Thorhian: I'm still a noob in this world. I'm mainly planning on aluminum but steel if I can. Should I shorten up the Z?
08:28 PM Tom_L: no
08:28 PM _unreal_: I'm not saying it wont work I'm just saying that is a lot of frame torque you will express
08:28 PM Tom_L: i wish i had more
08:28 PM Tom_L: just make the frame accordingly
08:28 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, typically Z is not one of the longest axis on the machine
08:29 PM _unreal_: and the harder the material your cutting YES the shorter the Z over all stroke you want the machine to have
08:30 PM Tom_L: i wanted a longer z for flexibility like fixtures, vises or a sacrificial plate which all require different z levels
08:30 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, a good example is a bridge port. they are solid cast weigh a shit load and short xyz movements compaied to your machine design. and under heavy load the entire machine WILL flex
08:31 PM _unreal_: compaied compared
08:31 PM Thorhian: Frame Torque from what and where? Also, I just wanted a lot of room to work with. I'm trying to build a machine that can traverse the entirety of a 13 in long and 8 inch wide bed. Also, the bridgeborts I've seen have far larger beds than what I'm trying to make.
08:31 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, why the cutting bit
08:31 PM _unreal_: heeh
08:31 PM Thorhian: Huh?
08:31 PM Thorhian: Oh XD
08:32 PM _unreal_: 700mm is 30"
08:33 PM _unreal_: That would be a monster xy table
08:33 PM _unreal_: to have 30" of travel
08:33 PM _unreal_: likely 70-80" wide just to get a 30" stroke
08:34 PM Thorhian: How long of rails would I need to traverse a full 13 in bed when the carriage blocks are at the ends of the table (or near them)? Don't I need almost double the rail length?
08:34 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, depends on the machine design
08:34 PM _unreal_: and your gap between the cars
08:34 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: what are you planning on milling? PCB's, aluminum, tool steel, titanium?, aged gouda
08:35 PM _unreal_: CaptHindsight, <Thorhian> 450 on Y, 700 on X, 500 on Z and he mentioned he would like to mill steel
08:35 PM Thorhian: Aluminum, Mild steels would be great too.
08:35 PM _unreal_: aged gouda LOL
08:35 PM _unreal_: I just noticed that
08:36 PM Thorhian: Soft tool steels would be a miracle, also I like Gouda.
08:36 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, milling steel can be done it just depends on how the machine is designed and how rigid the frame is and what kind of loading the bearings can take
08:37 PM Thorhian: I was planning on putting the carriages at the edges of the bed. I figured less cantilevering the better.
08:38 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, I'll be honist I would be shocked if a machine with those parts could cut more then a 1/16th per pass 50mm/min (THATS SLOW BTW STUPID SLOW) in steel per your description so far.
08:38 PM _unreal_: with a 1/4" bit
08:39 PM _unreal_: are you planning on an aluminum fame? steel frame for the machine?
08:39 PM _unreal_: then you have to add the weight of the axis to the loading as well
08:40 PM Thorhian: Steel frame, with polymer concrete in the Z axis and possibly under to whole machine.
08:40 PM _unreal_: to see what your bearing load is
08:40 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, ok thats good design. now can the bearings take the weight of the machine PLUS the load and shock load
08:41 PM Thorhian: I unfortunately don't know how to calculate that :/
08:41 PM _unreal_: if no your bearings and rails will fail faster
08:41 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, this is my mill design and i ended up with 17.75 x 13 x 7" travel: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Column_Mill_VMC.jpg
08:42 PM Tom_L: using the components i posted
08:42 PM Thorhian: Oh wow nice Tom!
08:42 PM _unreal_: concrete you can calculate by volume. and steel is easy just identify your over all lengths and the sizes have charges for finding weight. add it all up
08:43 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/spindle_cooler/Mill1.jpg
08:43 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, hence I said your design is NOT wrong but you do need to identify its working attributes. To ensure you are ordering the right parts
08:43 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, you'll notice he does not have a lot of weight on the XY
08:44 PM _unreal_: you where talking about doing a moving gantry
08:44 PM _unreal_: that would give the greatest work area BUT lots of weight
08:44 PM Thorhian: Wait, moving gantry?
08:44 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, i was able to make this steel mold with it: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/Can_Holder/A3/Mold_Rev2/Final_mold4.jpg
08:45 PM Tom_L: just make sure your design is rigid
08:45 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, ;) oh that old thing
08:46 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, a bridge frame is a moving or partially moving gantry
08:46 PM _unreal_: I asked before about that and you said yes LOL
08:46 PM Thorhian: Also, I can only get load rating for official Hiwin rails and the aliexpress seller. I don't know what to do with C/kN load rating numbers though. Thats what I meant by calculate.
08:46 PM _unreal_: <_unreal_> your going to REALLLLY want a beefy bridge frame
08:46 PM _unreal_: <Thorhian> Yep.
08:47 PM Thorhian: Also, sorry if I did say yes, but the spindle is only moving on the Z axis. The bed is moving in X and Y.
08:47 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, there is the different directions of force
08:47 PM _unreal_: pushing down INTO the rail. pulling away from the rail. twisting, tilting
08:47 PM _unreal_: all of those dimentions matter
08:48 PM _unreal_: thats what we needed to know
08:48 PM _unreal_: hence I said that type would have to be STUPID beefy
08:49 PM _unreal_: so if your designing like Tom_L thats far more reasonable per the parts you listed
08:49 PM Thorhian: Yeah no, nothing like a router gantry. My design will look a lot more like Tom_L
08:50 PM _unreal_: hehe i was PALM TO FACE... this GUY... arg...
08:50 PM Thorhian: XD
08:50 PM Thorhian: Sorry for the misunderstanding.
08:50 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, there is also epoxy granet
08:50 PM Thorhian: I've heard good things about that too for mass and vibration dampening along with polymer concretes.
08:51 PM _unreal_: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FMachinists%2Fcomments%2Fdluewh%2Fepoxy_granite_cnc_mill_made_by_stef_van_itterzon%2F&psig=AOvVaw32spHRAuR4PFPz9J9OXs5B&ust=1586569828139000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA0QjhxqFwoTCJC4k7Tf3OgCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD
08:51 PM Tom_L: i think Valen built one with epoxy granite some time back
08:52 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, my home machine https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Epi_HnCUA83Bbr7-sbDEt4EFKLzObQoM
08:52 PM Thorhian: I've seen several builds on Youtube.
08:52 PM CaptHindsight: Thorhian: ping me if you want links on polymer concrete and epoxy concrete designs
08:52 PM CaptHindsight: https://ibin.co/2eWjnYtOrXq9.jpg
08:53 PM jymmmm: CaptHindsight: pics?
08:53 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, the result https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Jhdu2UXy-NDLAabpD3d6cB-wlT9qazFm
08:55 PM Thorhian: That's a nice wood piece :D
08:56 PM _unreal_: I sold that for $60
08:56 PM Thorhian: Thanks _unreal_, also that's awesome.
08:56 PM Thorhian: Also, thank you Tom_L!
08:58 PM CaptHindsight: http://web.mit.edu/2.70/Lecture%20Materials/Documents/Week%2003/PMD%20Topic%209a%20Structural%20design%201.pdf
08:58 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, the new machine I'm buildin https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mRxXSnLYXtDGCx6IAuz6ccSXu8wB7n0y
08:59 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
08:59 PM CaptHindsight: http://web.mit.edu/2.70/Lecture%20Materials/Documents/Week%2003/PMD%20Topic%2011%20Damping.pdf
08:59 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, a lot of these parts where made using my little machine https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ilNVYlA6m7xGhCAn1lIo1JQiG3m_ZvSj
09:00 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fnDdmO8oMWCKIWO9yF5W1kBki8bxOwxU
09:01 PM Thorhian: That's awesome! The only machine I have at the moment is an MPCNC just running marlin. I really should work on a postproccessor for Marlin in Freecad.
09:02 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, do you run windows at all?
09:02 PM Thorhian: Thankfully I do have access to a Mig welder for the steel construction though. I might have to hand flatten some of steel depending on where I am able to get it.
09:03 PM CaptHindsight: or maybe someday someone will fix all the comments in Marlin to make sense :)
09:03 PM Tom_L: Thorhian, mine was all scrapyard metal :)
09:04 PM Thorhian: Also, not usually _unreal_. I have a seperate partition of Win 10 on a different SSD and a Win 7 virtual machine to run estlcam. My main OS is Arch Linux.
09:04 PM _unreal_: my machine is half fiberglass and half steel pipe
09:04 PM Thorhian: My router is half PLA plastic (thick) and half steel conduit.
09:05 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, design spark mechanical is free and amazing. and then there is also fusion360
09:05 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mfpBCiNoOnLgv6IS3Xl9ZoZLypXKmi1q
09:05 PM _unreal_: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mYcOdwbQY658J3m9sXhDXZGuUJxIy6kN https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mVxWlwzPYf9IRnD7PbrYx68YcZod5HKh
09:05 PM _unreal_: fusion360 has a free vesion
09:05 PM _unreal_: version
09:06 PM CaptHindsight: https://my.mech.utah.edu/~me7960/lectures/Topic14-DesignOfMachineStructures.pdf
09:06 PM Thorhian: I have used fusion. It's installed on my Win10 and win7 OSs, but I prefer staying in Linux and I'd rather make Freecad better than totally rely on Autodesk *hissss*
09:06 PM Tom_L: not gonna find much in the way of cad cam for linux
09:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/88839
09:07 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, I'm not nocking freecad well yes yes I am. fusion and design spark are the best free softwares period for production and function
09:07 PM _unreal_: and getting profesional results in little time
09:08 PM _unreal_: and the learning curve is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY LOWER then freecad
09:08 PM roycroft: fusion is not free by any stretch of the imagination
09:08 PM roycroft: i tried it, and i found it easier to learn (with my background using solidworks) than freecad
09:08 PM _unreal_: roycroft, depends on the account type
09:08 PM _unreal_: and roycroft yes you can have a free fusion account I had one for 2 years before buying it finally
09:08 PM roycroft: fusion also demands to call home occasionally or it stops working
09:08 PM roycroft: that's bullshit
09:08 PM Thorhian: Having actually used freecad for simple stuff, along with fusion, I have to say that Freecad is not that bad. You are talking to a person who has used Blender since 2.49 though >:)
09:09 PM _unreal_: roycroft, no argument I'm not a fan of that
09:09 PM CaptHindsight: https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/9414 Principles and techniques for designing precision machines
09:09 PM roycroft: i got the "free" version a while back
09:09 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, blender is less confusing then freecad
09:09 PM _unreal_: and far more mature
09:09 PM roycroft: and then the phone calls trying to sell me the commercial version started
09:09 PM Thorhian: Lol, maybe now days _unreal_. You you used Blender 2.49?
09:09 PM _unreal_: roycroft, I never got called
09:10 PM _unreal_: yes
09:10 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, somewhere I have some images I designed
09:10 PM CaptHindsight: just save up $20k for NX or $4k for Solidworks :)
09:10 PM roycroft: maybe they called me because i've given them thousands of dllars for autocad in the past
09:10 PM Thorhian: Blender 2.49 is WAY worse than current Freecad.
09:10 PM _unreal_: Thorhian, that green cnc machine of mine I posted I designed in blender
09:10 PM roycroft: i finally told them to stop calling me
09:11 PM roycroft: and that i'd stick with solidworks
09:11 PM roycroft: but my solidworks license is really old now (2012)
09:11 PM roycroft: i'm kind of on vacation this week and next
09:11 PM * _unreal_ wishes he was
09:11 PM _unreal_: I'm drownding in work :(
09:11 PM roycroft: i'm actually taking a week of vacation, but working half days, so stretching it out over two weeks
09:12 PM roycroft: yes, i'm busy at work too, which is why i'm doing the vacation thing this way
09:12 PM _unreal_: people freaking out bringing there boats to the yard
09:12 PM roycroft: school starts next week again, but with remote learning
09:12 PM _unreal_: THAT aspect is bs
09:12 PM _unreal_: remote learning
09:13 PM roycroft: and i'm trying to get an all-but-abandoned municipal wifi network as operational as possible so that the school kids who don't have internet at home have a chance to get online without having to go somewhere
09:13 PM roycroft: so it's both important work and time-critical work
09:13 PM Thorhian: Wow that was weird. Got disconnected randomly.
09:13 PM roycroft: welcome to the irc, thorhian :)
09:13 PM Thorhian: XD
09:13 PM _unreal_: stay a while will ya
09:14 PM Thorhian: Lol. I really should setup weechat on this desktop. Probably more reliable.
09:14 PM roycroft: this vacation thing is actually working out really well
09:14 PM roycroft: i normally start work at 8
09:14 PM roycroft: but for the next two weeks i'm working 7-11
09:15 PM roycroft: and since i work from home, i'm ready to do other stuff right at 11
09:15 PM _unreal_: its amazing how THIS is not the lead story https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard-university-professor-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-three-separate-china-related
09:15 PM _unreal_: roycroft, hows the commute?????
09:15 PM roycroft: thinking back, normally when i'm doing my april vacation i end up sleeping in late and don't get started on shop/garden projects until late morning
09:15 PM roycroft: so i'm actually getting 2x as much time for the projects as usual
09:16 PM roycroft: i just don't get to be lazy
09:16 PM roycroft: the commute is great
09:16 PM roycroft: it's a longer commute from my bedroom to the kitchen to make coffee than from my bedroom to my office
09:16 PM _unreal_: just around the corner 10 steps or so right?
09:17 PM roycroft: the office door is directly across the hall from my bedroom
09:17 PM roycroft: so it's like 1 meter away
09:17 PM roycroft: a single step
09:17 PM _unreal_: ever leaped to work?
09:17 PM roycroft: i haven't
09:17 PM roycroft: maybe some day
09:17 PM roycroft: anyway, what i'm getting at with all this is that since i have the time off, and much more than usual, it might be a good time to give freecad another go
09:18 PM roycroft: i can probably carve out a couple long evenings to make more sense of it
09:19 PM roycroft: the last time made a bunch of time to learn it it kept crashing on my mac
09:19 PM Thorhian: I mean, I had a bit of a time with sketcher's constraints system, but now I'm mostly used to it. I recreated a keyboard case that I am a fan of.
09:19 PM roycroft: by the time i got a new version that was stable, i had run out of time
09:20 PM roycroft: my main issue with it in the past, other than the crashing thing, was that it had no support for assemblies for a long time, and then the assembly stuff was really primative and crappy
09:21 PM Thorhian: I haven't had any problems with the latest release, but I am on Linux, not Mac OS.
09:21 PM roycroft: but it appears that assemblies work much better now
09:21 PM roycroft: the crashing thing was well-known, and mac os specific
09:21 PM Thorhian: I recently tried out the Assembly plugin that was just added to the plugin repo as of 0.18. It was nice, and I'm a total noob with CAD programs.
09:22 PM roycroft: i'm on 0.19-18694
09:22 PM roycroft: i don't know if there's a newer version that's stable on mac os
09:23 PM Thorhian: 0.19 is still in development last I checked. It crashed on my while in the Path tool bench lol.
09:23 PM roycroft: yes, it is
09:24 PM roycroft: but 0.18 reliably crashes on mac os
09:24 PM Thorhian: That sucks :/
09:24 PM roycroft: it does
09:24 PM roycroft: and it's really easy to reproduce the behavior that causes the crash
09:24 PM roycroft: just click on the freecad icon to open the app and wait a couple minutes
09:25 PM roycroft: but the 0.19 build that i have hasn't crashed once
09:25 PM roycroft: although i've not used it much
09:25 PM Thorhian: I feel like Freecad needs more love. It seems so capable but the dev team is lacking it seems. It needs a Blender 2.8 moment to rally people to it.
09:26 PM roycroft: freecad has been around for a very long time
09:26 PM roycroft: it's been given a lot of love
09:26 PM Tom_L: just not quite enough
09:26 PM roycroft: no
09:27 PM Thorhian: Yes, and so has Blender, but Blender has managed to gain a ton of momentum while Freecad hasn't seen the same.
09:27 PM roycroft: in its defense, a parametric cad modeling package is a rather significant endeavor
09:28 PM roycroft: freecad's problem, i think, is that it's the 3d cad app that lives by the unix philosophy of creating a bunch of small tools, each of which does one thing well, and building a workflow that ties them all together
09:28 PM roycroft: for old unix hacks that's fine
09:28 PM roycroft: for the young whippersnappers who grew up with windows and monolithic mega apps it's an alien way of working
09:29 PM Thorhian: I'm not saying that Freecad isn't awesome (it is), but it doesn't receive the same kind of monetary and full time development that blender does.
09:29 PM roycroft: i still use troff for a lot of stuff :)
09:29 PM roycroft: so the unix philosophy is strong in me
09:30 PM Thorhian: Also, I grew up with windows, but now I can't stand using it as my primary system. Also, my first 3D modelling application was blender, so I was raised with the modal system. Then, I learned of Vim :)
09:30 PM Thorhian: Now I use Doom Emacs.
09:30 PM roycroft: windows is too damn hard to manage/admin
09:30 PM roycroft: it takes forever to do anything with windows
09:31 PM Thorhian: It also doesn't have nice tiling window managers along with that. :)
09:31 PM Thorhian: I feel kind of proud to know what groff is. That's kind of obscure, especially these days.
09:32 PM roycroft: groff is what i actually use these days
09:32 PM roycroft: real troff was never open sourced
09:32 PM Thorhian: Also, this is the case I was recreating in Freecad. I really should finish it and print it out. https://kbdfans.com/collections/60-layout-case/products/pre-orderkbdfans-5-60-case
09:33 PM roycroft: and i'm not inclined to install sysv r3.2 on an old pc just to run real troff
09:33 PM Thorhian: XD
09:33 PM roycroft: and even if i did it would not be the original troff - i don't have a c/a/t typesetter
09:33 PM roycroft: i'd have to use ditroff so i can generate postscript
09:33 PM Thorhian: Yikes man, how long have you been using computers?
09:34 PM roycroft: for a long time
09:34 PM roycroft: i started using unix in 1978
09:34 PM roycroft: i think i did my first coding in '71 or '72
09:34 PM roycroft: i forget exactly when
09:34 PM Thorhian: You lucky man. You didn't get stuck with DOS. I wasn't born then of cource.
09:34 PM Thorhian: course*
09:34 PM roycroft: yeah, i definitely predate ms-dos
09:34 PM roycroft: i did spend a lot of time with cp/m machines
09:35 PM roycroft: and most of my early programming was on ibm mainframes
09:35 PM roycroft: running os/360
09:35 PM roycroft: i learned basic, fortran, and cobol while in high school
09:35 PM roycroft: speaking of which
09:35 PM Thorhian: I have a professor who teaches discrete math in the computer science department. He has all of his assignments in emacs .org files. He was told us about his marvelous experience when he got to use a real LISP machine.
09:36 PM roycroft: the state of new jersey is desperately seeking old time cobol coders
09:36 PM Thorhian: Dang lol
09:36 PM roycroft: their state unemployment system runs a bunch of old cobol code, and it's falling apart with the sudden huge increase in unemployment claims
09:36 PM Thorhian: Oof.
09:36 PM roycroft: we old farts are still slightly useful :)
09:37 PM Thorhian: So they need a stop gap until they can switch to something that is more easily scaled, like elixir/erlang ;)
09:37 PM roycroft: and there is a newer version of freecad for mac os
09:38 PM roycroft: they were actually starting to rebuild the system in february
09:38 PM roycroft: then the pandemic hit
09:38 PM Thorhian: Yeah, that will do it.
09:39 PM Thorhian: Not going to lie, I'm glad I don't live in a big city.
09:42 PM roycroft: it's going to reach every corner of the planet
09:42 PM roycroft: but in a more rural area it's easier to take precautions
09:43 PM roycroft: and it's not going to go away until we get a vaccine, which will be at least another year before the first doses are available
09:43 PM Thorhian: Yep. We already have some cases, but WAY less than other parts of the USA. It's way easier to stay isolated.
09:44 PM roycroft: but if folks do proper social distancing and other preventive measures, the first wave will subside, and it will be manageable
09:44 PM roycroft: i'm in oregon, and our governor acted fairly quickly when it arrived here
09:44 PM Thorhian: Thankfully the local university went all online for previous and next semester (at least) until things settle down. I'm pretty sure that move saved the town/city.
09:44 PM roycroft: as a result, we've gone from the 17th most cases after the first 100 to 33rd most
09:45 PM roycroft: now that's in part, of course, because other states are getting hit that weren't before we got our first 100 cases
09:45 PM roycroft: but it's in large part because of the fairly early shutdown
09:45 PM Thorhian: Yeah, but if you didn't shut down then the state would be far worse.
09:45 PM roycroft: absoultely
09:45 PM roycroft: and there are still 8 states with no shelter in place orders
09:46 PM roycroft: some even still have the schools open
09:46 PM roycroft: all 8 of those states have republican governors
09:46 PM roycroft: it's unfortunate that republicans made this political, at the cost of the lives of their constituents
09:47 PM roycroft: unfortunately for us, idaho is becoming a hot spot, and it's right next door to us
09:47 PM roycroft: but washington is just north of us, and when things got crazy there we did not see a big local effect
09:47 PM roycroft: so maybe we'll be ok
09:48 PM Thorhian: Yikes, they really should close, even if they have small populations. Also, I wouldn't say "republicans". It's not all of them. BTW I am in Idaho. Thankfully people in my family started telling off the state when they wouldn't shut down the schools immediately. We got some interesting responses at first.
09:48 PM roycroft: no it's not all of them
09:48 PM roycroft: but many did
09:48 PM roycroft: the governor of alabama, for example, said "i'm not shutting down alabama because we're not new york and we're not california"
09:48 PM Thorhian: Welp. That's stupid.
09:49 PM roycroft: idaho were pretty late on shutting down the schools
09:49 PM roycroft: but they are finally closed, thank goodness
09:49 PM Thorhian: Yep. Our area has been closed for while. Eastern Idaho has been doing okay, but Boise and I think Twin Falls are getting hit hard.
09:49 PM roycroft: so to be really clear, i'm not saying all republicans are making this political
09:50 PM roycroft: but i am saying that a lot of republicans are making it political and risking people's lives because of it
09:50 PM roycroft: in total fairness, a lot of democrats are making it political too
09:50 PM Thorhian: It's all good :) I'm not a big fan of today's partisan politics, whether republican or democrat.
09:50 PM roycroft: but not at the risk of lives
09:50 PM roycroft: they're more opportunistic, trying to get some of their policies pushed through
09:51 PM * roycroft is neither republican nor democrat
09:51 PM Thorhian: I used to refer to myself as a republican, but I don't really care to anymore. Just conservative for the most part.
09:51 PM roycroft: see, even that work doesn't mean anything to me
09:51 PM roycroft: word
09:51 PM roycroft: you would probably think that i'm a "socialist" or "progressive"
09:52 PM roycroft: i think of myself as very conservative
09:52 PM roycroft: i like to conserve things and not destroy them
09:52 PM Thorhian: Maybe, I have no clue who you are roy XD I don't even know you.
09:52 PM roycroft: i like traditional values like treating other people as you would have them treat you
09:52 PM roycroft: i don't like hating on gay people or hispanic people
09:53 PM roycroft: which is what a lot of people who call themselves "conservatives" do
09:53 PM roycroft: and i'm not in the tiniest bit suggesting that you're like that at all
09:53 PM roycroft: because i don't know you either :)
09:53 PM roycroft: i'm just saying those labels are pretty meaningless
09:53 PM roycroft: at the very least, they've lost most of their original meaning
09:54 PM roycroft: i prefer to talk values with people, not tribal membership
09:54 PM Thorhian: Personally, I just wish people could talk and not blow up. Also, yes, I would agree that those labels are meaningless except maybe in broader terms *shrug* I may not agree with a lot of people who are "on the left" but I don't really hate them.
09:55 PM roycroft: i was brought up to not hate anyone
09:55 PM roycroft: hate the sin, not the sinner
09:55 PM Thorhian: And yeah, that tribalism thing. :S
09:55 PM roycroft: i could go on for hours and hours about that person who fancies himself our president
09:55 PM roycroft: and i have :)
09:56 PM roycroft: my dislike for just about everything he does and stands for is all but unsurpassed
09:56 PM Thorhian: XD Maybe not the right place, in an IRC chat dedicated to LinuxCNC.
09:56 PM roycroft: but i don't hate him
09:56 PM roycroft: i'm not one of the ones who wishes him to get covid-19
09:56 PM Thorhian: Well, you sound like a decent person roy. That's good enough for me.
09:57 PM * roycroft has made a serious attempt to tone down politial discussions here, but does slip once in a while :)
09:57 PM roycroft: i try to be
09:57 PM roycroft: i can't say i always succeed
09:57 PM roycroft: and the thing is
09:57 PM roycroft: i think most of the people who call themselves conservatives are decent people
09:57 PM roycroft: i disagree with them vehemently on most policy issues
09:57 PM Thorhian: I mean, people are people. We tend to have strong opinions and make mistakes.
09:58 PM roycroft: but at the end of the day, don't we all want to live a happy life, provide for our children, and make the world a bettter place for them?
09:58 PM Thorhian: I mean, that's what I want lol.
09:58 PM roycroft: we may have different ideas on how best to do all that stuff
09:58 PM roycroft: but our goals aren't all that much different
09:59 PM roycroft: the tribalism we have now masks that though
09:59 PM roycroft: the goal is more to hate the other tribe than to do good things, it often seems
10:00 PM Thorhian: Well, I have to get off. Have a good night!
10:00 PM roycroft: anyway, even though this is more a philosophical and ethical discussion than a political one, it's outwith the scope
10:00 PM roycroft: so i should shut up now :)
10:54 PM _unreal_: about time :)
10:55 PM _unreal_: You shut up that is ;)
11:35 PM roycroft: :P
11:55 PM MrHindsight is now known as CaptHindsight