#linuxcnc Logs

Apr 07 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:24 AM jymmmm: skunkworks: Not bad for $28 +free shipping... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicon-Carbide-Graphite-Crucible-1KG-2-4Kg-3KG-Refining-Gold-Silver-Aluminum/132826261259
12:48 AM veek_ is now known as veek
02:26 AM Deejay: moin
04:12 AM * Loetmichel looks like tin man again... note to self: cuttung up about 20 sheets of alu milling leftovers to fit the recycling box on the circular table saw "snows" a bit... also: Kickback is funny if you have a big belly and the parts are lightweight. "how far can i bounce that off?" :)
04:17 AM * Loetmichel looks like this now, just older and alu flakes instead of plastics: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5077
04:50 AM jthornton: morning
04:51 AM XXCoder: yo
05:27 AM miss0r: 'ello
05:29 AM Loetmichel: ah, all the mericans finally woke up ;)
05:30 AM XXCoder: not all
05:30 AM XXCoder: its 3 am where im at heh
05:30 AM XXCoder: it just seems so because east coast have 99.999% of people ;)
05:47 AM * Loetmichel is waiting for the foot to be ready so i can go to lunch break already ;)
05:47 AM Loetmichel: [12:47] * Loetmichel is waiting
05:47 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:50 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: American? Not me :)
05:51 AM * jthornton is really glad he lives on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road in the midwest
05:53 AM miss0r: :]
05:53 AM miss0r: I envy that
05:53 AM * Loetmichel envies jthornton, too
05:54 AM rmu|w: I'm quite happy with this side of the pond, but I wouldn't mind living on a dead end dirt road off of a dirt road either
06:23 AM jthornton: Loetmichel, you should have slowly rotated to get even coverage
06:38 AM p0g0: jthornton, to be competitive, how long a dirt road? Mine is bounded by 80' cliffs and a river on 3 sides.
06:41 AM jthornton: that's pretty isolated for sure, I'm bounded by mark twain national forest and a white trash family
06:41 AM p0g0: The nat forest is handy.
06:42 AM jthornton: actually I have a pretty cool neighbor to the north
06:44 AM p0g0: My neighbors are OK, smart but not educated for the most part- this is the "Cutoff", a part of the county that you cannot get to without a 45 minute roundabout, so we've all been sort of self-governed since the bridge went out in 1927.
07:01 AM Loetmichel: haha
07:01 AM Loetmichel: "since the bridge went out in 1927"... never thought of making a new one yourself?
07:30 AM p0g0: Loetmichel, heck no, the other side of the river has no value to us. It would be a bridge to nowhere that would invite folks with no business for being here to cruise and diminish the isolation.
07:35 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: FROSTY THE SNOWMAN....
07:35 AM jymmmm: good morning
07:38 AM jymmmm: p0g0: a river on three sides... hope it never floods or you have to evacuate
07:39 AM jymmmm: jthornton: Anything to hunt in the NF ?
07:41 AM p0g0: Most tracts on this side are either small & sparse (< 20 Ha) or large (> 300 Ha) but we enjoy much better access to infrastructure and immense natural beauty (viz: Natural Bridge & Red River Gorge, Kentucky USA- those are c. 10 miles off to the north & west). Because the bridge went out and the Great Depression hit at the same time, land here became almost worthless to the locals. It took very little money to buy large tracts in the 1960s. The value
07:41 AM p0g0: here is in the extent and isolation + remarkable ecology- so the fewer humans, the easier it is to keep the wilderness that I value.
07:45 AM gregcnc: sync I'm pretty sure I've seen curve that showed max torque at 18kRPM.
07:45 AM gregcnc: but mainly the point was what kind of load they see in real use
07:54 AM * jthornton goes for a ride on the mountain bike while it's still cool outside
07:56 AM jymmmm: jthornton: enjoy!!!
08:18 AM rmu|w: p0g0: what kind of internet connection can you get there?
08:33 AM p0g0: rmu|w, uncapped fiber, $70/month (tho you have to also buy the landline, it is all telco- both come in at about $95/month. To follow up on the "why not build the bridge", the folks 1000' feet away across the river are ATT customers, maybe DSL for some, but more likely stuck with cell phone access and the caps, low speeds, high prices etc- and that will never change unless the state itself does something, which it is foundering at. I have a tiny telco,
08:33 AM p0g0: when they were a copper loop outfit, pretty lame, but being small, they were affordable to the feds to loan $ to pull fiber to every door, about 8 years back.
08:35 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: pretty unhappy snowman on that pic ;)
08:35 AM p0g0: I can take some indirect credit for that, I spent the 90's lobbying and demoing internet access in the "last mile", that primed a lot of the region for wanting broadband. I had nothing to do with the telco tho, I was going for the state school's off hours fiber net.
08:35 AM * Loetmichel was NOT amused about the clingyness of that Pu resin milling swarf
08:36 AM p0g0: I ran 8 BBS' and did a radio show, had a dog and pony show for regional politicians, stuff like that.
08:59 AM SpeedEvil: Remember not to let your scrap of Pu swarf build up to a critical mass.
09:09 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: that would be bad indeed ;)
09:09 AM Loetmichel: kinda "not so healty"
09:15 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: they have these things called shopvacs
09:17 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: wasnt an option back then, the vacuum "foot" didnt fit over the 40mm face off bit
09:17 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4378&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
09:18 AM Loetmichel: like that just with a cast PU resin block instead of the murfeld green
09:25 AM p0g0: critical mass isn't what will kill him, it is the microgram of Pu lodged in the lungs...
09:25 AM SpeedEvil: p0g0: Well, if critical mass gets you first...
09:26 AM p0g0: yeah yeah... you'd have to be milling pretty quick and heavy with a lot of lead or polyethylene to not get irradiated so fast that you'd bleed out too.
09:26 AM Loetmichel: p0g0: thats bad, Pu is a contact poison aside from being radioactive
09:27 AM p0g0: it is a CNS antagonist, and it is a well established carcinogen, esp in the lungs.
09:27 AM p0g0: So heavy metals + cancer...
09:27 AM p0g0: + radiant mortality.
09:28 AM Loetmichel: i meant: it kills you so fast because its poisonus even in small quantities that the radioactivitiy is simply irrelevant
09:28 AM p0g0: hmm, that depends on your exposure.
09:29 AM p0g0: Small particles are killers from the lung stuff, moderate levels get CNS & iirc, liver, but being too near too much will just cook you, you likely will die in 2-5 days from bleeding out.
09:31 AM p0g0: Now, the 2nd generation effects are smaller than expecxted- Nagasaki has shown that, vs the Chernobyl firemen- those poor SOBs have trashed germ lines.
09:33 AM p0g0: They did studies on the before and after children of the firemen, those after kids show much higher levers of chromatic damage. It was one of the great long term fears for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and recent studies haven't seen nearly the rates seen in the Chernobyl folks.
09:36 AM p0g0: It is one of the arguments about fresh Spent Nuclear Fuel-that it will kill you so fast that you can't actually steal it without commiting suicide.
09:37 AM p0g0: If it is really fresh, it may just superheat and aerosolize once you pull it from the moderator (water pools).
09:40 AM p0g0: the greater risk at Fukushima was the fresh MOX SNF in the cooling pools that were leaking and boiling off, iirc there was 400t of SNF in those pools.
09:40 AM p0g0: Way more mass than in the reactor cores...
09:44 AM p0g0: None of it was likely to hit critical mass (tho the molten cores could maybe have done that, esp initially), but the SNF was plausibly likely to superheat beyond the boiling points of the metals and become fugitive aerosols tossing Pu, Americium, Iodine, etc over a large region.
09:47 AM p0g0: Right now, here in the US, CV19 has made the NRC change the rules for nuclear power plants (NPPs), they've decided to postpone most refueling, and are trying to extend the work hours of the resident staff to limit in/out traffic.
09:50 AM p0g0: NPPS don't like to shut down without proper management, they have heat issues that need trained staff to handle. The Pu carbon moderated reactors (breeders and NPPs in parts of EU/RU) those are flat tricky to shut down, and I'd wonder why they are still on line in the face of the pandemic (or in general, for a fact).
09:56 AM jdh: we do not have any notice of any refueling delays {BWR fuel}
09:59 AM p0g0: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/nuclear-regulators-ease-some-power-reactor-regs-in-response-to-covid-19/575000/
10:01 AM p0g0: https://www.utilitydive.com/news/coronavirus-could-disrupt-normal-refueling-practices-for-nuclear-facilities/574920/
10:05 AM p0g0: that 2nd one gets more to the refueling stuff- I might have overstated the DOE rules, but the big picture is that some refuelings are going to get delayed to some extent due to CV19.
10:05 AM jymmmm: grenade in a microwave..." TOTALLY SAFE MOM" https://youtu.be/nWmcVaoKQe0
11:02 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: i would wager that the microwave shorts out before the grenade gets to a temp thats dangerously close of igniting. but i WOULDNT bet my life on it ;)
11:03 AM Loetmichel: (IF its a frag grenade)
12:53 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Nope, microwve didn't do jack
12:54 PM Loetmichel: yes, i have seen it now
12:54 PM Loetmichel: interesting that the flashbang ignited
12:55 PM jymmmm: probably from heat generated, flashpowder is pretty sensative
12:55 PM Loetmichel: must have had a plastic casing around the primer
12:55 PM Loetmichel: i am just surprised that the microwaves didnt die
12:56 PM Loetmichel: they cant cope all that good with a "dead short" inside
12:56 PM Loetmichel: aka metal can
01:05 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Well, it seems that they actually can =)
01:05 PM jymmmm: theory be damned!!!
01:06 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: i rephrase: they used to blow their fuse if they are overloaded like that
01:06 PM Loetmichel: maybe the newer chinese ones simply dont have a fuse ;)
01:07 PM rmu|w: fuseable resistor aka primary winding
01:07 PM rmu|w: fusing=
01:07 PM rmu|w: ?
01:10 PM Loetmichel: probably ;)
01:11 PM Loetmichel: in the older (gen1/gen2) consumer microwaves usually a forgotten teaspoon was enough to blow the magnetron fuse
01:11 PM Loetmichel: i repaired quite a few with that fault
01:20 PM Rab: Many modern microwaves are some kind of linear inverter-driven thing, which I believe lets the controller detect and respond to load (i.e., frozen turkey vs slice of bread). They may be able to automatically dial down the power if there's a short or other bad load.
01:23 PM Rab: I mean linear in the sense that they have proportional control over the power, not just long-period duty cycle. It's probably still some form of PWM.
02:01 PM jymmmm: Rab: they were using old school mechanical timer microwaves
02:02 PM Tom_L: cook til it smokes?
02:23 PM jymmmm: Tom_L Nah, they kept cooking even after it caught fire, STILL didn't ingnight the C4
02:23 PM jymmmm: or grenade, I forget which
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: 80F now and back to 40F by Thursday
02:54 PM CaptHindsight: sorry 80F sun and 3 deaths
03:24 PM Tom_L: close to that here
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: weather websites all seem to have added virus info
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: but over 1 day behind
03:35 PM Tom_L: 52 people in 10 Kansas counties have recovered
03:35 PM Tom_L: 23 of those are in my county
03:45 PM jymmmm: Tom_L cool
03:46 PM jymmmm: Tom_L I gues the "STOP LICKING DOORKNOBS" posters really helped
03:48 PM CaptHindsight: KEEP CALM and STOP LICKING
03:54 PM jymmmm: Licking is fine, just not doorknobs
03:54 PM jymmmm: ...and hand grenades
04:16 PM Deejay: gn8
05:00 PM flyback: rab are you playing with the guts from microwaves?
05:01 PM flyback: if so heed the warnings about berrriylium ceramic inside
05:01 PM flyback: a) as bad as asbestus b) radioactive
05:04 PM Rab: flyback, I'm not, but thanks for the warning. Beryllium oxide is in a lot of power RF stuff.
05:09 PM flyback: yeah just respect it
05:09 PM flyback: it's fine left alone or even touched
05:09 PM flyback: breaking it into dust etc is NOT safe
05:11 PM pcw_mesa: I suspect recent microwave ovens would not use BeO because of its cost
05:12 PM pcw_mesa: probably all alumina
05:13 PM sync: flyback: BeO is not radioactive.
05:18 PM flyback: I heard it's a alpha emitter
06:00 PM jthornton: pretty warm here today as well, went for a mountain bike ride this morning to beat the heat
06:07 PM jthornton: New York is the place to not be right now
06:07 PM Tom_L: yep nice warm sunny day here
06:10 PM jthornton: trying to finish up Chicken Coop Deux new chicks due to ship 29th
06:11 PM jthornton: hows the situation by you Tom_L
06:11 PM Tom_L: 52 people in 10 Kansas counties have recovered, 23 of those are in my county
06:12 PM jthornton: nice, we still have 2 cases in my county and a few in surrounding counties
06:12 PM Tom_L: been playing nurse today as i had to take her in yesterday AM early for an emergency wisdom tooth extraction
06:12 PM jthornton: ouch
06:13 PM jymmmm: My new knife.... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z4RMDKY/
06:13 PM Tom_L: yeah she doesn't react well with pain meds either
06:13 PM jthornton: gotta reboot, firefox is acting wonky
06:14 PM Tom_L: jymmmm, you sure that's legal in Ca?
06:15 PM jymmmm: Tom_L doubtful, probably concealed or soemthing
06:15 PM Tom_L: does look a bit suspicious
06:16 PM jthornton: the pain meds don't have the proper effect?
06:17 PM Tom_L: makes her upset
06:17 PM jymmmm: Tom_L vicoden?
06:17 PM jthornton: yuck
06:17 PM Tom_L: i forget what it was
06:17 PM jthornton: jymmmm, looks pretty useless to me
06:17 PM jymmmm: hydrocordon?
06:17 PM jymmmm: jthornton: heh, novelty
06:18 PM jthornton: hmm 38°F Thursday night... gotta cover up the tomato plants again
06:18 PM jymmmm: Maybe though... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BD57RZW/
06:19 PM jymmmm: knife seems well, sheith sucks
06:20 PM jymmmm: sheath*
06:23 PM jymmmm: Suppose to get into the 70's tomorrow, it'll be a miracle
06:29 PM Tom_L: this back and forth is nonsense
06:45 PM _unreal_: sMy guts where NOT happy with me
07:07 PM skunkworks: andypugh: played around with outside polygon shapes.. Seem to work as expected.. Although it is a bit of positive feedback - The motion of the axis wants to spin the cutter
07:08 PM andypugh: I hadn’t thought of that issue.
07:09 PM skunkworks: I was just turning the spindle by hand and thought for a second the spindle was turning on :)
07:09 PM skunkworks: I also have lathe mode I want to try...
07:12 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest54317
07:19 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
07:21 PM roycroft: in case any of you purchase goods from japan, i just had an order returned to the sender
07:21 PM roycroft: when i queried the shipper, i was informed that japan post have stopped shipping goods to 155 countries, effective yesterday, due to the coronavirus
07:22 PM roycroft: so if it's still in japan, it's not leaving via japan post
07:22 PM andypugh: Seems odd, are they concerned about spreading infection? They have less than most, I think.
07:22 PM roycroft: well, unless you're in one of the few countries that they ar still shipping to, but i don't have that list
07:22 PM roycroft: and i doubt anyone here is in one of those contries
07:22 PM roycroft: it does seem odd
07:22 PM Rab: I wonder what that's supposed to accomplish.
07:22 PM roycroft: but prime minister abe just locked down the country yesterday
07:23 PM roycroft: so it's almost certainly related to that
07:23 PM roycroft: but why, i'm not sure
07:23 PM Rab: Maybe it's just a side effect of e.g. Japan Post shutting down.
07:23 PM roycroft: it's highly unlikely that a parcel that has to live on a ship for a couple weeks, then sit in a dock, then clear customs, then move on to final delivery, is going to spread the virus
07:24 PM roycroft: perhaps, rab, but my parcel was at an international shipping depot, ready to get loaded on a container
07:24 PM roycroft: it seems to me that there would be less handling of the parcel by japan post by just putting it on the container and sending it on its way than actually returning it to the shipper
07:24 PM Rab: Of course, shipping is reciprocal--planes and ships have to come in before they can go out. Maybe they're halting receiving.
07:25 PM roycroft: unless it's just been marked "return to sender", and is actually going to sit at the dock for an indeterminate amount of time
07:25 PM roycroft: anyway, just a heads up that shipping from japan is problematic
07:26 PM roycroft: the shipper told me that fedex and ups are still handling things, but they're really expensive
07:26 PM roycroft: i'm big on the slow, cheap boat shipping method
07:26 PM Rab: Noted. Seems like massive economic impact for relatively little exposure.
07:26 PM roycroft: i have more patience than i have money burning a hole in my pocket
07:26 PM roycroft: and i'm actually pretty good at planning things
07:27 PM roycroft: i do a fair amount of project management in my job, so gantt charts are quite familar
07:27 PM roycroft: i can order something six weeks in advance for most projects
07:28 PM Rab: Maybe it's a side effect of a halt in shipping. Probably hard to plan a 30 day voyage with confidence, right now.
07:29 PM roycroft: yeah
07:29 PM roycroft: anyway, this was fortunately nothing critical for me
07:30 PM Rab: Although 30 days is more my estimate for certain Chinese provinces--Japan to US west coast might be shorter.
07:31 PM roycroft: my experience is that surface shipments from japan take longer than from china
07:32 PM roycroft: 3-4 weeks from china, and 6 weeks from japan is average
07:32 PM roycroft: i've gotten stuff in a week from china before, surface mail
07:32 PM roycroft: i don't know how they get it here that fast, but they sometimes do
07:33 PM Rab: Wow, seems like they might be hitting a few other asian ports on the route then.
07:33 PM roycroft: they must throw it on a plane anyway, even though it's supposed to be surface mail
07:33 PM roycroft: it takes over a week just to cross the pacific, doesn't it?
07:34 PM roycroft: a week is more like a north atlantic crossing
07:34 PM Rab: Yeah, I've ordered a bunch of tiny china stuff on eBay that forecast long shipping times, but seemed pretty obviously bundled into spare bulk air capacity.
07:41 PM roycroft: yup
07:42 PM roycroft: it's like the amazon free super saver shipping
07:42 PM roycroft: it's free because they just sit on it until there's some spare room in a container
07:42 PM roycroft: then they literally ship it for free, except for the last mile
07:43 PM Rab: This site claims 23 days from Tokyo to Portland: https://www.searates.com/services/distances-time/
07:44 PM Rab: But they break it down as 9 minutes in Tokyo port, 13 days 20 hours over sea, 16 minutes in Portland. So I am not sure how that adds up.
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: 2 weeks is the average transit time across the pacific, and it's usually 2 more weeks at each end
08:27 PM CaptHindsight: whole container can be faster than less than whole since there are fewer swaps of cargo in ports
08:31 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest76227
08:36 PM flyback: yeah I ordered some stuff on amazon to clean out some 2 yr old gift cards and didn't even thinkj to check where it was coming drom
08:36 PM flyback: the molex to sata cables from monooprice came in a week or less
08:36 PM flyback: 3/4 of the rest
08:37 PM flyback: the test clips, 5 ch340's, 1 ch341, some other stuff over a month
08:37 PM flyback: and a stupid 2.0mm to 2.1 mmm dupont cable 3 months
08:37 PM flyback: I ended up spending another $30 and buying two more of the same c2g molex to quad molex cables so I could have them fast rather than wait
08:37 PM flyback: besides it;'s not like I can't use the extra
08:38 PM flyback: it was causing my dat recovery box to crash
08:38 PM flyback: loose splitters
08:38 PM flyback: which is REALLY BAD when you get a hard drive to spin up for the first time in 20 yrs
08:38 PM flyback: and you lose it to a cable
08:38 PM flyback: before you finish imaging
08:38 PM flyback: also buying c2g direct they are in ohio
08:38 PM flyback: I am in pa the ohion side
08:38 PM flyback: I will likely get it before end of the week
08:39 PM flyback: im also 0 wiping and reloading the data recover box because it's had too many oops
08:39 PM flyback: not taking a chance
08:40 PM flyback: this project is important to me
08:40 PM flyback: shame the one box only has 2gb ram
08:40 PM flyback: else i'd consider running zfs instead of sw raid 10
08:41 PM flyback: I could use zfs on the final storage nas though
08:41 PM flyback: it's ecc else I would just load it up with as much ram as it could
08:41 PM flyback: it's just to run ddrescue anyways
08:41 PM flyback: so I can throw out about 200 old hd's
09:33 PM roycroft: flyback: i missed much of what you were talking about, but i see you were discussing zfs on a nas
09:34 PM roycroft: i thought i'd mention that i've been using freenas in production for about 3 years now, both at work (an isp), and at my home office, and i've been very happy with it
09:35 PM roycroft: i configure the datastores with raid 10, and i have a replication machine for every production machine
09:35 PM roycroft: performance is great, management is easy and intuitive, and it just works
09:36 PM roycroft: i've had to replace several drives over the time i've used freenas, and replacing/resilvering is very straightforward
09:37 PM Tom_L: he's doing data recovery on some old hdds
09:42 PM flyback: yeah
09:50 PM roycroft: what i can say is that when you move your storage to zfs there will be no more data recovery
09:50 PM roycroft: only drive replacement
09:52 PM roycroft: i'm generally not one to call things the bee's knees, but zfs is the bee's knees of filesystems, if you can afford to feed it (and it's not too expensive to feed)
09:55 PM skunkworks: roycroft: still liking proxmox.. slowly virtulizing some of our non-mission critical servers.
09:55 PM roycroft: i'm still moving vms to proxmox
09:55 PM roycroft: and everything is still going wll
09:55 PM roycroft: well
09:55 PM skunkworks: (even a legacy xp machine....) yes xp..
09:56 PM skunkworks: even got it running virtstor drivers..
10:10 PM skunkworks: I have a 17TB of data on a zfs spinny disk volume. Been playing with snapshots and such. pretty cool
10:10 PM skunkworks: compressed to like 12tb. (kinda freaked me out the first time I copied the volume over to zfs)
10:53 PM flyback: ugh forgot to rest my weather radio back to silent warning
10:53 PM flyback: https://youtu.be/LGXLVCokXEc?t=12