Mar 30 2020
02:11 AM Deejay: moin
02:42 AM Loetmichel: mornin'
02:42 AM XXCoder: hey
03:40 AM pink_vampire: hi
03:40 AM XXCoder: to
03:40 AM XXCoder: *yo
03:45 AM pink_vampire: how is life?
03:46 AM XXCoder: boring.
03:46 AM XXCoder: i disassembled my laser diode and found alum chips
03:46 AM XXCoder: nozzle is bit of a mess
03:46 AM XXCoder: https://imgur.com/a/UQzqwS7
03:48 AM pink_vampire: the picture looks very blurry
03:49 AM pink_vampire: after cleaning it got back to life?
03:51 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: ^?
03:51 AM XXCoder: nope
03:52 AM XXCoder: you can see some white object in nozzle itself
03:52 AM pink_vampire: not sure
03:52 AM XXCoder: its messing with light. also im pretty sure theres more chips inside
03:53 AM pink_vampire: if you power it without the nozzle, how the beam looks?
03:54 AM XXCoder: havent done that its not assembled now so hard to test now
04:39 AM pink_vampire: mmm i see
04:45 AM XXCoder: its put away for week now
04:45 AM XXCoder: btw laserweb is pretty good controller for laser machine, but dont use it for cam for svg
04:45 AM XXCoder: it sucks lol
04:45 AM XXCoder: plugin in inkscapes makes it move much much smoother on curves
05:07 AM jthornton: morning
05:07 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:08 AM XXCoder: jt check it out https://imgur.com/a/UQzqwS7
05:09 AM XXCoder: look at pretty nasty condition of diofe
05:09 AM XXCoder: diode
05:09 AM XXCoder: and it had alum chips bunch of em too (fine powder)
05:09 AM XXCoder: you can still see some
05:10 AM XXCoder: see the white thing in nozzle of diode? weird
05:10 AM pink_vampire: is that magic smoke particles??
05:11 AM XXCoder: nah alum chips, feels like its from slicing extrude for cooling
05:11 AM XXCoder: feels like powder
05:11 AM jthornton: what is it?
05:11 AM XXCoder: its laser diode
05:11 AM pink_vampire: jthornton: laser head
05:11 AM XXCoder: its what is under lens for focus
05:12 AM jthornton: ah
05:13 AM pink_vampire: maybe your laser is infected with the corona virus?
05:13 AM XXCoder: lol
05:14 AM pink_vampire: some lasers need ventilator (air assist)
05:14 AM XXCoder: it does have it.
05:14 AM XXCoder: 2w is simply too weak to need it, its used to keep diode cool
05:15 AM jthornton: is that the new one?
05:16 AM XXCoder: nah old one
05:16 AM pink_vampire: did you clean the optics?
05:16 AM XXCoder: it failed to cut cardboard after 100 passes
05:16 AM XXCoder: it used to be fine at 40 passes
05:16 AM XXCoder: its been getting worse
05:16 AM XXCoder: pink yeah
05:17 AM pink_vampire: "40 passes" LOL for cardboard LOLLLL
05:17 AM XXCoder: its 2w not 20w :)
05:17 AM XXCoder: though I wonder if that white thing was there whole time, making it lose power
05:18 AM pink_vampire: just use a knife
05:18 AM XXCoder: nah im leaving it as is. complained to seller
05:18 AM XXCoder: alum powder is NOT acceptable and likely cause of breakdown
05:24 AM pink_vampire: ok, if you have aluminum powder in it, all you need to add some iron oxide powder and then to power the laser to light the thermite mix
05:24 AM XXCoder: ohh nice lol
05:25 AM pink_vampire: it will generate alot of heat that will cut the cardboard
05:25 AM XXCoder: im getting 5.5w, if seller sends me 2w replacement, dunno what to do with that
05:25 AM XXCoder: though maybe its useful for cutting paper!
05:26 AM pink_vampire: I think scissors will be faster
05:26 AM XXCoder: jthornton: did you see laser firing test
05:26 AM XXCoder: pink not at all!
05:26 AM XXCoder: it'd be very hard to cut some shapes using scissors. and laser can cut 4 or 5 in single pass
05:27 AM jthornton: no
05:27 AM XXCoder: a second
05:27 AM XXCoder: https://youtu.be/VFM8vISG53Q
05:27 AM XXCoder: note its going too fast to cut anything, its just to show light
05:28 AM XXCoder: watch carefully when it reaches black spot. its nice and tight focus
05:30 AM pink_vampire: https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/d/aspers-camtech-big-cnc-laser-engraver/7099986866.html
05:31 AM XXCoder: ... is that glass co2 laser just in head?
05:31 AM XXCoder: dang
05:31 AM XXCoder: no enclosure too
05:31 AM pink_vampire: metal
05:31 AM XXCoder: theres metal co2 laser?
05:31 AM pink_vampire: metal co2 laser tube - I think it is air cooled
05:31 AM pink_vampire: yes, all the good ones are metal, and air cooled
05:32 AM XXCoder: wow
05:32 AM XXCoder: very expensive I guess
05:32 AM XXCoder: i could put 30 of my machines on that table LOL
05:32 AM pink_vampire: https://synrad.com/en/products/lasers/48-series
05:32 AM pink_vampire: this is the tube that he use
05:33 AM XXCoder: 8 and 10w interestong
05:33 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: an 80W watercooled co2 tube is about 30mm diamenter and a good 1200mm long... you DONT want to have that moving with the head.
05:34 AM Loetmichel: its usually behind/bleow the table and the head only moves a mirror
05:34 AM Loetmichel: below
05:34 AM XXCoder: loet yeah thats why that video really was odd
05:34 AM pink_vampire: Loetmichel: look at the link
05:34 AM Loetmichel: which?
05:34 AM XXCoder: ah higher wattages down page
05:34 AM pink_vampire: Loetmichel: https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/d/aspers-camtech-big-cnc-laser-engraver/7099986866.html
05:35 AM XXCoder: it has no price
05:35 AM XXCoder: which means I cant afford it ;)
05:35 AM Loetmichel: ah, 50W
05:35 AM Loetmichel: yes, you CAN do that. its impractical though
05:35 AM Loetmichel: as you can see on the pic
05:36 AM pink_vampire: XXCoder: it's about half a kidney for a new tube,
05:36 AM XXCoder: im not exactly up to date for kidney values
05:37 AM Loetmichel: its easier to have the tube stationary on the back, have a mirror that will put the beam parallel to the gantry, have another mirror on the gantry side that puts the beam parallel to x, then have another mirror on the head that points it downwards and THEN have a focus lens that moves in Z
05:37 AM pink_vampire: https://photovaclaser.com/sales/the-laser-exchanger/
05:38 AM XXCoder: wow
05:38 AM XXCoder: loet yeah dunno if I ever will go that big tho lol
05:38 AM XXCoder: i think I would max out at 20w diode
05:39 AM Loetmichel: also its nice to have the workspace being a grind with a vacuum box below rather than a massive aluiminium plate
05:39 AM Loetmichel: for fumes extraction pourposes
05:40 AM Loetmichel: and better "lower side" cutting quality
05:40 AM XXCoder: makes sense
05:40 AM Loetmichel: s/grind/grid
05:40 AM XXCoder: if I go 20w I would be using cover AND goggles in entire time machine is enabled
05:44 AM * Loetmichel rememberes the sign in the laser lab at university: "protect your remaining eye!"
05:44 AM Loetmichel: :-)
05:44 AM XXCoder: yep heh
06:58 AM SpeedEvil: Bedflinger works too if you don't care about floor area
07:20 AM pink_vampire: any of you know about other temperature scales then those common ones? (Celsius, Fahrenheit, Kelvin, Rankine, Delisle, Newton, Réaumur, Rømer)?
07:22 AM jymmmm: pink_vampire: Yeah... DAMN, SOB, HOLY SHIT, and son of a mother phucking bitch that's hot!
07:24 AM pink_vampire: jymmmm: you make me laugh so hard right now LOLLLL!!!!!
07:25 AM jymmmm: pink_vampire: Hey, it's a real scale, oh and "I TOLD you it was hot (SMH)"
07:26 AM pink_vampire: I'm dying here LOLLLLL
07:30 AM miss0r: I know that scale. I would argue it is better known than most of the ones pink_vampire listed :)
07:43 AM * miss0r is looking at buying a factory new lathe. I am looking at a Shaoxing GH-1840ZX
07:43 AM miss0r: Yes yes... its chinese.. But its not made from chinesiu,
07:44 AM miss0r: chinesium*
07:45 AM miss0r: 1000mm turning length, 460mm diameter clearance over the ways. turn up to 700mm diameter if the well is removed. and last but absolutly not least: 80mm spindle bore
07:45 AM miss0r: https://www.okv.dk/Lagerliste/Drejebaenke/Shaoxing_GH-1840ZX (should anyone be interrested)
07:45 AM miss0r: 2835kg worth of cast iron :]
08:25 AM Loetmichel: hmm, after destroying 30 mill bits in 3 days... do you guys think that think here is useful? Original fogbuster is a bit out of bosses budget: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Spruhkuhlung-Minimalmengenschmierung-Frasmaschine-Sprayer-hh/274150852523
08:30 AM miss0r: Loetmichel: It will work, no doubt
08:31 AM Loetmichel: think so?
08:31 AM miss0r: The issue with most minimal spray coolant systems that are *not* fogbuster, is that they actualy make a coolant mist, which floats around everywhere, where the fogbuster ascualy throws small droplets at the work. It sorta minimizes the oil mist part
08:31 AM miss0r: So you are likely to end up with oil floating around in the air. But if you have some sort of fume ventilation system or the likes it should not be an issue
08:41 AM syyl: the issue with almost all mql systems, including the fogbuster: theyre shit.
08:44 AM Loetmichel: as i mill with a mix of water IPA and dish detergent: not THAT much of a problem if it gernates an aerosol
08:45 AM Loetmichel: @ miss0r
08:45 AM Loetmichel: also the machines are enclosed and have a vacuum table thats pulling a pretty big amount of air thru the shopvac that drives it
08:45 AM unterhaus: you use beer as a coolant?
08:46 AM Loetmichel: isoproply alcohol
08:48 AM Loetmichel: btw: are they CRAZY? just tried to restock on 99.9% IPA today... last time (last year) i paid $45 for 10 liters of the stuff... today they want $75 for a 5 liter jug?!?
08:49 AM Loetmichel: #scheiss corona
08:50 AM sensille: you could have seen this coming
08:51 AM Loetmichel: didn know we were low
08:51 AM Loetmichel: coworker just came by "IPA jugs in the storage are BOTH empty".... whoever puts empty jugs back into the rack .-(
08:52 AM Loetmichel: now i have to bring my private stash of 10 liters to the company so we can work
08:52 AM Loetmichel: grmbl
08:59 AM unterhaus: I wonder if pinterest will ever notice I never open emails entitled "we think you might like these pins"
09:02 AM unterhaus: I have a coolant system, but I think using it in my basement would be a bad idea
09:36 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: SEriously, that's your bosses responsability, not yours
09:37 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: you and your family might need it
09:37 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: when the numbers of infected start to decline, then maybe that's another story.
09:39 AM Tom_L: Loetmichel, i use one similar and it works but i leave it turned down as low as i can and still siphon the coolant
09:40 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Mill_Steel/Assembly/Final/Mister1.jpg
09:40 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: we have enough desinfectant. i have that IPA at home for cleaning poirposes
09:40 AM Tom_L: i did have to add an extra O-ring to the tip so it wouldn't vibrate off
09:41 AM Loetmichel: and for milling alu
09:41 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Ok, fair enough.
09:41 AM Tom_L: i've got an exhaust fan in that corner if it gets too bad
09:42 AM Tom_L: but i've not had to use it very often
09:42 AM Loetmichel: i doubt we will run out of desinfectant. just pisses me off that we have apparently some coworkers that cant say anything when a jug is empty and let me reorder that stuff
09:43 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: looks ok to me. so its useable but not as good as a real fogbuster?
09:43 AM gregcnc: the needle valve in those are utter garbage
09:43 AM Tom_L: agreed
09:44 AM Loetmichel: as my machines are both in an enclosure and the vacuum table will suck out nearly 100% of the aerosol and thru the shopvac filter i doubt any aerosol wold be a problem
09:44 AM gregcnc: alcohol or oil?
09:44 AM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm-kpV2Msn0
09:44 AM Loetmichel: usually a mix of alcohol, water and a dab of dish detergent
09:44 AM Tom_L: i'm using regular coolant in mine
09:45 AM Loetmichel: the link above are the two machines here now
09:45 AM Tom_L: the jug should be somewhat level with the nozzle as it is a siphon thing
09:45 AM Loetmichel: coolant doesent work THAt well for alu, also its a mess you have to clean off with solvents
09:45 AM Tom_L: i set mine on the table beside the mill
09:45 AM Loetmichel: the water/alcohol mix you just have to put under running water and they are squeaky clean again
09:46 AM Loetmichel: if needed i can putt the coolant jug on the back of the machine
09:46 AM Loetmichel: enclosure. from the inside
09:46 AM Loetmichel: to match the nozzle height
09:47 AM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/Rustlick1.jpg
09:47 AM Tom_L: you can see the location of the mixed jug to the left there
09:49 AM Tom_L: for $10 or whatever it was i didn't expect much but it does ok
09:52 AM Tom_L: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Minimalmengenkuehlung-Minimalmengenschmierung-Coolant-Sprayer-Spruehkuehlung-CNC/293526505585?hash=item44578b0871:g:ja0AAOSwQKlefGKs
09:52 AM Tom_L: mine is more like that one with the fatter tip
10:07 AM miss0r: Tom_L: Imagine comming in just now and reading your last message out of context...
10:07 AM miss0r: I think I need some sleep :) I've been going at it for almost 30 hours straight now. See you around
10:14 AM jymmmm: miss0r slave don't get to sleep, get your ass back to work
10:18 AM Loetmichel: Tom_L: thanks
10:19 AM Loetmichel: i will order two and when i get them i will give feeedback how they work for me
10:29 AM Loetmichel: hmm, anyone knows a high flex air line that will fit those 8mm "plug in" air fittings so that i can use the energy chains on my machines for the air line?
10:32 AM gregcnc: the reinforced type should work
10:40 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: i ment those fittings that you just shove the air line (usually hard plastic) in and it holds by means of some sheet metal teeth inside and an o-ring
10:41 AM Loetmichel: not the usual barbs you put the hose on the OUTside of and put a hose clamp around
10:47 AM gregcnc: and those hoses don't work with push connect fittings?
10:48 AM gregcnc: or change the fittings
10:49 AM gregcnc: or https://www.mcmaster.com/5225k434
11:19 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Spr%C3%BChk%C3%BChlung-Minimalmengenschmierung-Fr%C3%A4smaschine-Sprayer-hh/274150852523
11:19 AM Loetmichel: Those fittings
11:19 AM gregcnc: reread above
11:21 AM Loetmichel: point is that i have no idea IF there are hoses that are high flex that work
11:22 AM Loetmichel: the usual hoses for those fittings are stiff as hell
11:22 AM jymmmm: I'm curious, I'm looking at small mylar food grade bags, but one side is clear (see through), doesn't that defeat the purpose?
11:22 AM Loetmichel: that was my point, to ask if there are hoses that fit but are flexible enough for energy chains or if i have go short, stiff hose in the fitting, barb adater, flexible hose
11:23 AM Loetmichel: which pourpose?
11:23 AM Loetmichel: @ Jymmm
11:23 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: foodstuff
11:24 AM Loetmichel: which pourpose? to have it fresh?
11:24 AM Loetmichel: why shouldnt clear mylar dont do that? its still airtight
11:25 AM gregcnc: https://www.festo.com/media/pim/919/D15000100122919.PDF
11:25 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: long term storage. IDK, I'm asking, seems that ALL foil would be better for that task
11:25 AM Loetmichel: metallized mylar is used for helum ballons because helium is a lot thinner than air, so that it cant escape as easy
11:26 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Example: https://www.amazon.com/Resealable-Aluminum-Packaging-Plastic-Ziplock/dp/B07PNJ3PLF
11:26 AM gregcnc: the zip defeats teh purpose
11:28 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: yes, the alu coating there is just for optical reasons
11:28 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: I plan on heat sealing
11:28 AM Loetmichel: not for any "keep it fresh"
11:28 AM Loetmichel: it would work just the same with a totally clear bag
11:28 AM Loetmichel: unless its light sensitive
11:29 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Ok, then whats the big deal about mylar compared to PP/PE bags?
11:29 AM Loetmichel: no idea, i would assume more cold resistant/resistant to tearing.
11:30 AM Loetmichel: so not easily spoied foods because of handling the bags
11:30 AM Loetmichel: spoiled/ice burned
11:34 AM jymmmm: I had the belief that better edge sealed, and air leeching, thus why I quetion the clear side
11:35 AM gregcnc: how long are you storing this food for?
11:36 AM Loetmichel: the bags i have for vacuum sealing stuff at the company are made of PE. and have a microstructured foil on one inside so the air can always escapbe
11:36 AM Loetmichel: they do just fine to seal in silver based RF gaskets for 10+ years. should work the same time for foods
11:37 AM Loetmichel: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11918&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- there you can see our two apprentices and the machine/bags
11:39 AM pink_vampire: "flux density in the infrared regime of 7 yocto nanomaggies" someone can help me to convert it to Celsius?
11:43 AM Loetmichel: Jymmm: as i said above: that metal coating isnt doing anything better than clear plastic foil. Other than preventing UV degradation, but that should be minimal for stored foods, those are usually NOT stored in the sun
11:43 AM Loetmichel: outside i mean
11:47 AM jymmmm: Loetmichel: Well, I'm also talking air, moisture, etc not just light penitration. I mena why are HDD's packed in mylar bags?
11:51 AM gregcnc: HDD are not prepper food, so I don't know
11:52 AM gregcnc: does your food also need to be ESD safe?
11:52 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Is that all you use mylar bags for? preper food? lol
11:53 AM gregcnc: i just had some scorpion pepper cheese out of a metlaizer mylar bag. I suspect it could combust with ESD
11:53 AM jymmmm: I woulddddd too! lol
11:54 AM gregcnc: just about right for heat
11:54 AM gregcnc: plus side, nobody else in the house will eat my snack
11:54 AM jymmmm: That's not a snack, that's just you being a masocist =)
11:55 AM gregcnc: something is wrong with me. I don't know icecream headache either
11:56 AM jymmmm: Other than the ESD aspects, I'm just trying to figure out why ppl are packing in mylar bags compred to (let's say) those food saver food bags
11:56 AM jymmmm: IS it just avilabaility?
11:57 AM gregcnc: you need to look at moisture and oxygen permeability
11:57 AM jymmmm: And every mylar bag I see on amazon says ""smell proof"
11:57 AM gregcnc: a lot of stuff is multiple layers
11:57 AM gregcnc: amazon marketing....
11:57 AM jymmmm: gregcnc: Right, but I can't find specs specific to "mylar bags" other than heresay
11:58 AM gregcnc: go to the source
12:00 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: Wholesale Only! Down for maintenance
12:01 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: mylarbags.com that is =)
12:01 PM jymmmm: lmao
12:01 PM gregcnc: I read about the stuff years ago, spec from the mfg for something non food related
12:02 PM gregcnc: https://www.newsweek.com/fda-says-hydroxychloroquine-chloroquine-can-used-treat-coronavirus-1494925
12:03 PM jymmmm: An alernate example is the "survival bars" that are USCG approved, but those bags are foil, not mylar
12:07 PM gregcnc: "foil"
12:10 PM Tom_L: Loetmichel, i used a regular pipe fitting on mine
12:10 PM Tom_L: 1/8" ? NPT
12:12 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: thus the "mylar foil" aspects. I know it's multiple layers, but layers of what?
12:12 PM Loetmichel: Jymmm: HDDs are packed into mylar bags because its easily metallized (ESD) and sturdy enough wo not rip up on sharp corners of the drive
12:12 PM Loetmichel: a PE or PP bag with conductivity would work just the same
12:12 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: ok, and the oxygen absorber they toss in the hdd bags too
12:12 PM Loetmichel: thats not oxygen
12:13 PM Loetmichel: its moisture absorber
12:13 PM gregcnc: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK220578/#_ddd00102_
12:13 PM Rab: jymmmm, I believe the aluminum layer is vapor-deposited, given that you can usually see through it.
12:13 PM jymmmm: Rab: ah ok
12:14 PM Tom_L: Loetmichel, i didn't use the push connector, rather a short piece of airline with a quick connect on it
12:14 PM jymmmm: gregcnc: what is "EPP"
12:14 PM Rab: However I have never found conductivity, or noticed scratching on a typical mylar antistatic bag. So it might be two laminated layers, with the aluminized film inside.
12:14 PM Tom_L: Enhanced Parallel Port?
12:15 PM jymmmm: Tom_L in the link gregcnc gave
12:15 PM gregcnc: scroll to the top
12:15 PM Tom_L: O
12:15 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: on the version i have ordered the push connector is part of the needle valves
12:15 PM Tom_L: sry been outside
12:15 PM Loetmichel: so not easily replaced
12:15 PM Tom_L: i think mine came with one but i didn't use it
12:15 PM jymmmm: Tom_L no worries =)
12:16 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: "enhanced polyproplene" in your context IIRC
12:16 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: ah ok
12:17 PM gregcnc: my link said EFP emergency food product or those USCG survival bars
12:18 PM Loetmichel: Tom_L: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Spr%C3%BChk%C3%BChlung-Minimalmengenschmierung-Fr%C3%A4smaschine-Sprayer-hh/274150852523
12:18 PM Loetmichel: look at the pictures in that link
12:18 PM Loetmichel: seems the push connector is part of the needle valve housing
12:19 PM gregcnc: it is
12:22 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: gregcnc OH, it said EFP, not EPP. -- Emergency Food Product
12:25 PM jymmmm: damn Times New Roman
12:28 PM Loetmichel: ah!
12:28 PM Loetmichel: hihi
12:29 PM jymmmm: =)
12:30 PM Loetmichel: gregcnc: so you would say: option is a short piece of rigid hose into that connector, a second connector with adapter to barb, and then a high flex hose?
12:30 PM Loetmichel: on the cooland sprayer
12:30 PM Loetmichel: -d+t
12:44 PM jymmmm: the trilaminate currently used by the military is recommended (from inside to outside: 0.003- to 0.004-in thick polyolefin/0.00035- to 0.00078-in thick aluminum foil/0.0005-in thick polyester [Natick Research, Development, and Engineering Center, 1993]). Other laminations with the recommended properties are also applicable, including the enhanced laminate currently recommended by the military that uses both polyester and nylon f
12:44 PM jymmmm: or additional protection against distribution (mechanical) forces. The package should be nitrogen flushed, and residual oxygen must not exceed 0.5 percent .
12:46 PM Tom_L: Loetmichel, mine is slightly different
12:47 PM Loetmichel: yeah, i have seen your link
12:47 PM Tom_L: it did have that connector but was a pipe fitting
01:02 PM gregcnc: leotmichel, I don't know what your needs are. the festo doc seemed to have 8mm od tube with ~25mm bend radius. the barb adapter plugs directly into the push connector
02:09 PM snakedGT is now known as snaked
02:23 PM adamj12b: Hi guys, Working on upgrading the mobo in my mill and had to pick up a 6i25 to replace the 5i25. Im running into a strange issue that any configuration using the 6i25 that trys to start, the computer locks up solid and I have to do a hard reboot. Any suggestions?
02:28 PM burklefoo: What does lspci | grep 2718 show?
02:34 PM adamj12b: burklefoo 02:00.0 DPIO module: Device 2178:5i25 )rev 01)
02:34 PM adamj12b: minus the typo... (rev 01)
02:35 PM SpeedEvil is now known as Guest78542
02:38 PM adamj12b: kern.log doesn't even show what happens...
02:41 PM burklefoo: does "sudo mesaflash --device 5i25 --readhmid" work?
02:43 PM adamj12b: let me try
02:43 PM Tom_L: pretty sure they both use the same config
02:45 PM adamj12b: Yes, it does work.
02:45 PM adamj12b: Returns the config, modules and pinout
02:45 PM burklefoo: Recent LinuxCNC?
02:45 PM adamj12b: I loaded and verified the 5i25_7i77x2.bat
02:46 PM adamj12b: Yes. 2.8.0pre01
02:46 PM adamj12b: it is one of the images that Rob built recently
02:46 PM adamj12b: RTAI kernel
02:46 PM adamj12b: Mint 19.2
02:47 PM adamj12b: BeagleBrainz on the forums
02:48 PM burklefoo: Strange, looks like the low level hardware works
02:49 PM Rab: adamj12b, is anything plugged into the I/O yet?
02:49 PM adamj12b: Yea its very weird. The computer has passed every test I could throw at it, and I go to move the config over and its not happy.
02:50 PM adamj12b: No, its just the card in the PCIe slot. The whole mobo is sitting on my desk.
02:50 PM adamj12b: I was just trying to get the config moved over and error out when it couldn't find the 7i77 but I cant get that far.
02:51 PM burklefoo: Can you try a quick test on a Preempt-RT system? (just a USB live image should work)
02:51 PM burklefoo: (say the stretch live image)
02:52 PM adamj12b: I have a ton of images I can try. I can do that but it will take a few minutes.
02:52 PM adamj12b: I went with RTAI because the latency was amazingly good.
02:53 PM adamj12b: 11us with rtai and 78us with preempt, but preempt has much better FPS running GLXgears.
02:53 PM burklefoo: Right but latency is basically irrelevant once you have interface hardware
02:53 PM adamj12b: My mill runs 4 axis servos in torque mode so it is very processor intense. I was hoping to run a 4khz servo thread and in testing this mobo can do it.
02:55 PM adamj12b: the strech live iso was one of the highest latency in all my testing. but I will try that first as its the most official. Standby
02:55 PM burklefoo: 4KHz should be possible with 78 us (you would also need to do a latency test with a 4 KHz servo and no base thread to know)
02:55 PM adamj12b: It gets 78us at 1k and 4k
02:56 PM adamj12b: and graphics are better so i dont mind, but the mill is my main production machine.
02:56 PM adamj12b: Its solid now, but is hurting with 3FPS screen updates when running large programs
02:57 PM burklefoo: Yeah I think some of the recent RTAI images disable video acceleration
02:58 PM burklefoo: (you might get better Preempt-RT latency if you disabled video engine access also)
02:58 PM adamj12b: if preempt fixes it, I will look into that
02:59 PM burklefoo: Right I'm mainly suggesting this as a way to bisect the crash issue
03:00 PM veegee: Hey all, I'm looking for a "right angle adapter" for my bridgeport
03:01 PM veegee: don't know what they're called exactly
03:01 PM adamj12b: ok so I dont have stretch on a flash drive but I have mint 19.2 XFCE and Preempt kernel
03:01 PM adamj12b: this works.
03:01 PM veegee: pretty much something that makes the vertical R8 into a horizontal
03:01 PM veegee: so I can machine stuff into the ends of large lumber
03:02 PM veegee: doesn't need to be the most rigid thing ever because it's used to machine wood
03:02 PM veegee: anyone have any ideas?
03:03 PM XXCoder: you man, turn into horzional mill?
03:32 PM unterhaus: there are right angle adapters for bridgeports.
03:34 PM unterhaus: https://eisenm.com/products/horizontal-milling-attachment-r8-w-support-55-dovetail-arbor
03:35 PM unterhaus: the machine shop at work (RIP) had a BP one.
03:38 PM unterhaus: some people on ebay are overly proud of them though
03:41 PM Tom_L: and you thought you were having a bad day: https://youtu.be/-CFTIOQCqTc
03:42 PM XXCoder: honestly i think those was overloaded
04:00 PM Deejay: gn8
04:05 PM _unreal_: hello
04:22 PM unterhaus: you can d/l ventilator plans from medtronic
04:23 PM unterhaus: https://www.medtronic.com/us-en/e/open-files/thank-you.html
04:34 PM methods_: ah cool
04:34 PM methods_: thx for linkie
04:54 PM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
04:58 PM adamj12b: ok, another question. I moved back to preempt and when I do the latency test, its ok, about 77us. When I run a sim, I get the unexpected realtime delay error....
05:01 PM andypugh: Is the sim loading a base thread ?
05:01 PM adamj12b: yes
05:01 PM adamj12b: its a stock sim
05:04 PM andypugh: 76µs might be a bit long for a base thread. But it’s not a problem for a 6i25.
05:05 PM adamj12b: What is your opinion of trying to run a 4khz servo thread with that 76us?
05:05 PM andypugh: Of course, I might be wrongly assuming that you are the same uy as the one on the forum with a 76µs latency who has switched back to the preempt-rt kernel.
05:05 PM adamj12b: on robs thread?? yes
05:06 PM andypugh: All I can say is “try it”
05:06 PM andypugh: It will also come down to the execution time of the thread.
05:06 PM adamj12b: rtai had 11us max latency but did not like the 6i25
05:06 PM andypugh: Which specific kernel? 4.25.174 ?
05:07 PM adamj12b: 11us when running a 4khz latency test
05:07 PM andypugh: 4.14.174 I mean.
05:07 PM adamj12b: standby I noted everything
05:07 PM adamj12b: 4.14.148-rtai-amd64
05:07 PM adamj12b: I was thinking about rebuilding the kernel to see if that helped...
05:07 PM andypugh: You could try the 174, but it’s probably identical.
05:08 PM andypugh: The set of .debs on www.linuxcnc.org/temp should install straight over the top.
05:09 PM pcw_mesa: Not sure if 64 bit RTAI kernels have been tested on the 5I25/6I25
05:10 PM adamj12b: I was talking to burklefoo on IRC earlier and he was talking about disabling hardware acceleration on the preempt install to try and help the latency.
05:10 PM adamj12b: pcw_mesa it locks up the computer and doesnt even kernel panic or write anything to kern.log
05:11 PM andypugh: pcw_mesa: It works for me….
05:11 PM andypugh: I can’t recall off-hand if it’s a 5i25 or 6i25 in the test machine.
05:11 PM pcw_mesa: Same Kernel?
05:11 PM andypugh: Yes.
05:11 PM andypugh: Hmm. Maybe not.
05:11 PM adamj12b: different build though?
05:12 PM andypugh: I can’t guarantee that I actually tried 4.14.148 with the PCI card.
05:12 PM andypugh: But 4.14.174 definitely works.
05:12 PM adamj12b: I can reinstall rtai real quick. only takes about 10 mins.
05:13 PM pcw_mesa: adamj12b: will wheezy work on you hardware?
05:13 PM adamj12b: I have not tried.
05:13 PM Tom_L: it's EOL but alot of guys are still using it.. me for one
05:13 PM adamj12b: I was trying BeagleBrainz mint images instead of building my own.
05:14 PM pcw_mesa: might be one way until the new RTAI issue is sorted
05:14 PM adamj12b: I did try stretch but the latency was the worst of any iso I tried.
05:14 PM Tom_L: stretch with preempt will want newer hardware
05:14 PM adamj12b: pcw_mesa Maybe you can answer a specific question what could choose a direction.
05:15 PM adamj12b: My machine is 4 axis torque mode servos. I want to run a faster loop then 1khz thats one reason for upgrading. RTAI handles 4khz in sim and had 11us latency.
05:15 PM Tom_L: what os?
05:15 PM pcw_mesa: Not sure that sim timing means _anything_
05:16 PM adamj12b: Preempt is around 76-120us.
05:16 PM adamj12b: Tom_L Mint 19.2
05:16 PM pcw_mesa: I would just try Preempt-RT
05:17 PM pcw_mesa: maybe reduce your servo thread to 3 KHz if need be
05:17 PM adamj12b: ok.
05:17 PM adamj12b: well 3khz will be better then 1khz.
05:18 PM pcw_mesa: Do you have the normal boot settings that improve latency? (idle=poll, etc)
05:18 PM adamj12b: I am using robs image currently and would have to check.
05:19 PM pcw_mesa: what pc hardware?
05:19 PM adamj12b: Asrock Q1900B-ITX 2.0GHZ 8GB DDR3 Crucial memory and 32GB Transcend SSD
05:20 PM pcw_mesa: Yeah those are not stellar with Preempt-RT
05:20 PM adamj12b: the 1900?
05:20 PM pcw_mesa: do you have speed switching turned off in the BIOS?
05:20 PM adamj12b: I have everythig turned off in bios...
05:20 PM adamj12b: I upgraded bios which helped a bit.
05:21 PM pcw_mesa: Yeah most of the fanless chips are not great with Preempt-RT
05:24 PM adamj12b: Thats basically what my tests confirm too...
05:25 PM adamj12b: any suggestions on how to get rtai working? Ive built a few kernels before, but im still newer at it. would building on the hardware help?
05:29 PM andypugh: There are config changes you can make.
05:29 PM adamj12b: pcw_mesa correct me if im wrong, but the only command line argument in the grub file is GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
05:29 PM andypugh: Almost-complete instructions are here: https://github.com/NTULINUX/RTAI/blob/master/README.INSTALL
05:30 PM adamj12b: I should add idle=poll here correct?
05:33 PM Tom_L: adamj12b, i'm running an asrock 1900 with wheezy and RTAI
05:34 PM adamj12b: Tom_L What mesa interface?
05:34 PM pcw_mesa: adamj12b: yes
05:35 PM Tom_L: mine is the 7i90 parallel interface
05:35 PM Tom_L: but pci would be better yet i'd think
05:35 PM adamj12b: pcw_mesa just " idle=poll" with a space?
05:35 PM pcw_mesa: this is what I have on one machine:
05:35 PM pcw_mesa: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=" isolcpus=3 i915.enable_rc6=0 i915.enable_dc=0 i915.
05:35 PM pcw_mesa: semaphores=1 idle=poll quiet splash"
05:35 PM adamj12b: Tom_L What kernel version and are you 64 bit?
05:35 PM andypugh: adamj12b: I once had a problem with one of my CNC machines where the 5i25 caused a crash like you describe. But _only_ when it was connected via a particular right-angle header. It’s been running fine for about 10 years with a _different_ right-angle header.
05:35 PM Tom_L: adamj12b, i'd have to go check
05:36 PM Tom_L: it's likely 32 bit
05:36 PM andypugh: Wheezy RTAI is 32 bit
05:36 PM adamj12b: andypugh this is right on the mobo so thats not it.
05:36 PM Tom_L: pretty sure JT is still using it on at least one machine as well
05:37 PM andypugh: My actual CNC machines are probably still on Wheezy. If not Lucid :-)
05:37 PM Tom_L: mine works good, i see no reason to change it
05:38 PM andypugh: And I suspect both are using some ancient dev version of LinuxCNC too.
05:38 PM Tom_L: iirc i'm using 2.8
05:38 PM andypugh: I think the lathe is running the eoffsets-dev branch.
05:38 PM Tom_L: 2.7 or 2.8, i know i've tested both
05:39 PM adamj12b: ok I changed GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash idle=poll" and updated grub and rebooted
06:22 PM adamj12b: So changing the arguments to this made a world of difference GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash isolcpus=3 processor.maxcstate=1 idle=poll"
06:24 PM adamj12b: Idle=poll and processpr.maxcstate=1 made some difference, about 10us. adding isolcpus=3 dropped the max latency, while running 4khz loop and 4 glx gears, down to 8.2us.
06:37 PM Tom_L: adamj12b, this was with mint19 and stretch?
06:39 PM Tom_L: on the asrock 1900?
06:39 PM Tom_L: i might have to try buster on it one of these days and see
06:42 PM adamj12b: Tom_L Yes Asrock 1900 and mint 19.2 with rt-preempt.
06:42 PM Tom_L: cool
06:42 PM adamj12b: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc/38382-custom-mint-19-2-with-linuxcnc?start=130#159301
06:43 PM Tom_L: where do you put those arguments?
06:43 PM adamj12b: thats the iso I used iso I used
06:43 PM adamj12b: in the grub file. /etc/default/grub
06:43 PM Tom_L: hmm
06:44 PM Tom_L: i'd be curious what buster would do on it now
06:47 PM adamj12b: Tom_L https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nBBHsOThisCVE-ic_Cd6aEBB5vfEGArM/view?usp=sharing
06:51 PM Tom_L: nice
06:51 PM adamj12b: Yea! I think Im ready to move ahead with installing the new mobo in the mill tomorrow.
09:50 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
10:05 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
10:08 PM _unreal_: well I didnt get much done tonight
10:09 PM Tom_L: i don't feel so bad then
10:42 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
11:07 PM skunkworks: what does processor.maxstate=1 do?
11:07 PM skunkworks: that is a new one. Power state?
11:10 PM Tom_L: googling indicates something to do with temp
11:11 PM Tom_L: lowering performance?
11:14 PM Tom_L: max_cstate=X option in the kernel line of /boot/grub/grub. conf . In order to save energy when the CPU is idle, the CPU can be commanded to enter a low-power mode. Each CPU has several power modes and they are collectively called “C-states” or “C-modes.”.
11:16 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
11:16 PM Tom_L: https://access.redhat.com/articles/65410
11:16 PM Tom_L: i'm sure debian etc are similar
11:17 PM Tom_L: fair description of it though
11:18 PM Tom_L: talks about idle=poll too
11:18 PM Tom_L: makes it more power hungry
11:19 PM Tom_L: might be a bad idea for something like the rpi4...
11:23 PM skunkworks: my pi gets warm....
11:23 PM skunkworks: wow
11:23 PM Tom_L: well my asrock is fanless so i'm wondering if that's a good idea to try on that or not
11:28 PM Tom_L: huh, maybe i'm not using the asrock on it.. this pc has that board
11:28 PM Tom_L: i'm wondering what i'm using now
11:29 PM Tom_L: maybe the intel D525