#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 27 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

01:49 AM XXCoder: interesting
01:54 AM XXCoder: https://www.proxxon.com/us/micromot/27100.php
01:54 AM XXCoder: someone turned that into cnc
01:54 AM XXCoder: using drill machine presumely
01:54 AM XXCoder: not bad idea really, cnc positioning of drill holes
01:54 AM XXCoder: erm not turning into, had an idea
01:54 AM XXCoder: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/582328579195666432/692908543120244826/FJIMG_20200326_212949.jpg
02:36 AM Deejay: moin
03:12 AM miss0r: morning
05:01 AM selroc: hi guys
05:18 AM jthornton: morning
05:20 AM XXCoder: hey
05:27 AM jthornton: I ordered some Cinnamon Queen female chicks yesterday they ship April 29th
05:28 AM XXCoder: growing population?
05:29 AM jthornton: the 7 remaining Rhode Island Red hens are 2 1/2 years old and a few have issues and don't lay eggs any more
05:29 AM XXCoder: makes sense
05:29 AM XXCoder: you dont do rooster and breeding?
05:29 AM p0g0: Jeepers creepers, where did you get those peepers? (sry, old tune & such chicks are "peepers")
05:31 AM jthornton: no, Cinnamon Queens are a cross between Rhode Island White and Rhode Island Red and can only be sexed the first generation
05:32 AM jthornton: my neighbor has 48 eggs due to hatch Thursday
05:32 AM p0g0: so they are older?
05:34 AM p0g0: By sexed, do you mean that they "hybrid" is only the f1 cross, the first generation, not subsequent generations (f2, etc)?
05:34 AM p0g0: *the hybrid
05:34 AM jthornton: by sexed you can tell male from female the first generation but not after that
05:35 AM jthornton: https://www.cacklehatchery.com/cinnamon-queentm-chicken.html
05:37 AM p0g0: hmm, a sex linked coloration. that is unusual.
05:37 AM p0g0: For chickens
05:37 AM p0g0: for young chickens
05:39 AM XXCoder: theres an interesting picture that shows half male and half female chicken
05:39 AM XXCoder: chickens is different that each cell dermines its sex, not chemistry like mammals
05:40 AM jthornton: they are a pretty ancient animal
05:40 AM p0g0: primary sex characteristics (including the X chromosome) are in all mammal cells.
05:41 AM XXCoder: p0g0: sure but cells isnt "gendered"
05:41 AM p0g0: hmm, yeah they really are.
05:41 AM p0g0: until you get to the haploid sex cells
05:41 AM XXCoder: its hard to explain, i dont have words hmm a second let me think
05:41 AM XXCoder: suppose you get a male baby
05:42 AM XXCoder: you stop testrone and uses estrogen what happens?
05:42 AM p0g0: You can just grab any cell from that baby and determine it's sex.
05:42 AM XXCoder: its really not nessary for it to be a baby but adults
05:42 AM p0g0: Secondary sexual expression.
05:42 AM XXCoder: precisely
05:42 AM XXCoder: chickens dont do that
05:42 AM XXCoder: theres nothing to alter
05:43 AM p0g0: hmm, I think your Cinnamon Girls will dispute that.
05:43 AM p0g0: How is it that they have a different coloration?
05:45 AM XXCoder: dunno breeding I guess?
05:45 AM p0g0: And even the haploids are sexed, until you only get the non-X's...
05:45 AM XXCoder: anyway difference is that you can have chicken with parts male and parts female
05:46 AM p0g0: That happens in many species, but they tend to be sterile.
05:46 AM XXCoder: suppose with that previous example of baby and swpaping horomines
05:46 AM p0g0: Fraternal twins are more where you are going- if they are of different sexes, the secondary characteristics of both tend to blend a bit.
05:46 AM XXCoder: you can have wholly lady with male dna
05:47 AM XXCoder: or other way
05:47 AM Loetmichel: *giggle*, making PC front lids again with lots of air vent holes... machine is like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7eO5cu-fXg
05:47 AM p0g0: yeah, see, that's all secondary, also likely sterile, and not a "lady"
05:47 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:47 AM Loetmichel: hopefully now the mill bits will NOT break off again. Chenged the program from doing 2 revs with 0,8mm depth each to 10 revs 0.16mm deep at ten times the speed. same overall speed, but much less forces on the gantry (gantry flex is what breaks off the bits)
05:48 AM XXCoder: its bit harder to do say bottom female and upper body male
05:48 AM XXCoder: you cant keep chemistry seperate like that
05:48 AM p0g0: XXCoder, hermaphrodites are actually common.
05:48 AM XXCoder: while chicken since its cell based its a clinch
05:49 AM XXCoder: yeah thats mixing of both chemicals at once
05:49 AM p0g0: And if you are a geneticist, the secondary expressions are not that meaningful until you are trying to manage characteristics.
05:49 AM p0g0: genotype vs phenotype
05:50 AM XXCoder: so much fun heh
05:51 AM p0g0: It might help for me to admit my undergrad degree was basically plant breeding (plant science major)...
05:51 AM XXCoder: i must have been mad scientis in my past life, but then I wake up and remember that theres no such thing as errm cant spell that word, basically born again. heh
05:51 AM p0g0: reincarnated
05:51 AM XXCoder: thanks
05:51 AM p0g0: np
05:52 AM XXCoder: magical thinking really annoys me
05:52 AM p0g0: unless you mean some theological "born again" thing
05:52 AM XXCoder: like for example saying thing makes it happens
05:52 AM XXCoder: nah
05:52 AM p0g0: magical thinking is a known disorder in the psych world.
05:52 AM p0g0: treatable, but not curable, iirc the phrasing.
05:52 AM XXCoder: oh really how is it diagonsed?
05:53 AM p0g0: I'd have to ask my beloved, that's her PhD.
05:54 AM XXCoder: lol ok
05:54 AM XXCoder: its interesting
05:54 AM p0g0: I'll suspect it's through dialog and being sane vs not.
05:56 AM p0g0: I was a hard science major, but being married to a clinical practice type doing trauma counseling has brought a terrific respect that I did not have in my youth, the folks that deal with human thinking have some really interesting tasks and skills.
05:56 AM XXCoder: computer science bullshit degree heh
05:57 AM XXCoder: a.a.s: for people who cant spell ass. b.s. bullshit. ms = master shitter. phd: piled high and deep
06:00 AM p0g0: To quote Ken Kesey, " I have to go shovel my thesis"...
06:00 AM XXCoder: :)
06:22 AM rmu|w: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZL5pHmpCG0
07:21 AM Tom_L: 51°F & cloudy but no rain yet
07:21 AM Tom_L: Ks count: 172
07:22 AM jthornton: 59°F overcast
07:23 AM Tom_L: possible severe storms this evening
07:41 AM jymmmm: good morning
11:52 AM Tom_L: awfully quiet today
11:57 AM skunkworks: social distancing...
11:58 AM the_ment: so... any ideas for temperature control methods better than PID?
12:02 PM sensille: the_ment: add a transformation so that the systems looks linear to pid
12:04 PM burklefoo: Take-half-back is often used
12:05 PM the_ment: sensille: so that the fan at 2x speed does indeed take away 2x heat?
12:05 PM the_ment: burklefoo: not sure what that is
12:06 PM burklefoo: google is your friend...
12:06 PM sensille: if you're controlling a fan, yes
12:07 PM burklefoo: Thermoelectric heating/cooling works well with PID since its symmetrical
12:09 PM burklefoo: but PID is often not optimum for things like heating coils since the rate of heat rise is so much faster than the cooling
12:19 PM SpeedEvil: Real peltiers are not symmetric
12:19 PM SpeedEvil: (unless you have 0C across them)
12:20 PM the_ment: burklefoo: sorry, the take-half-back didn't sound as something googlable
12:20 PM the_ment: burklefoo: but this application is for cooling ASIC chips with fan (the chips generate heat at constant speed, the fan can be controlled)
12:35 PM sync: just let it rip full tilt all the time
12:36 PM sync: but usually feed forward with a model works relatively well and an a PI controller for the rest
12:43 PM the_ment: cool, thanks for the ideas!
12:46 PM burklefoo: SpeedEvil right, but much more symmetrical than most heating systems
12:47 PM burklefoo: where you often have 0 control of the cooling rate
01:33 PM roycroft: are any of our friends from the uk about at the moment?
01:34 PM roycroft: i'm trying to ascertain a regional dialect
01:34 PM roycroft: the person in question is paul sellers - he's a well-known woodworker, and has plenty of videos on youtube
01:34 PM net|: does anyone know if covid builds up in the system ? quick look at numbers suggest it takes 4-6 weeks to kill you
01:34 PM roycroft: i think he's welsh or cornish
01:34 PM roycroft: a couple friends think he's from yorkshire, which is an entirely different dialect
01:36 PM net|: 10k died this last week from covid
01:36 PM roycroft: if anyone from the uk who knows the regional dialects better than i has a moment, please check out one paul's videos and let me know what you think
01:48 PM roycroft: covid-19 is actualy the name of the disease, not the virus
01:48 PM roycroft: so covid-19 would not "build up" in one's body
01:48 PM roycroft: but the sars-cov-19 virus does build up - mainly in the lungs
01:48 PM roycroft: and that is what causes the disease
02:18 PM CaptHindsight: the_ment: do you want to regulate the fan speed besides just the noise they make?
02:20 PM gregcnc: anyone seen the story about 39Million N95 masks turning up?
02:20 PM the_ment: CaptHindsight: yes, mostly because of power consumption
02:23 PM jym: gregcnc: no, link?
02:23 PM gregcnc: https://twitter.com/noamscheiber/status/1243235329420808192
02:25 PM jym: It's funny "found a distributor...", um like ANYONE in the world doens't know that they are needed, and 39M just sitting in a warehouse?!
02:25 PM gregcnc: Seems like they are also going to get away with charging 5X normal price
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: the_ment: keeping them free of clogs is usually the bigger issue
02:26 PM jym: Not just 10K or 200k or even 2M, but 39 MILLION just sitting there?! Seriously, who i the fuck stocks 39M of ANYTHING these days???
02:27 PM gregcnc: this isn't in mainstream media for some reason
02:27 PM CaptHindsight: the guys waiting for the price to go up
02:27 PM jym: Well, I just big medical is getting a taste of their oen overcharging everyone medicine, sadly, it'll just be passed on
02:28 PM jym: Ok, anyone have a suggested alternative? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011US7KWQ/
02:30 PM jym: Come on, NOBODY likes/uses bigger knives???
02:31 PM jym: I'm excluding the UK folks, cause I'm kinda surprised they are even allowed butter knives
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/seiu-locates-39-million-n95-masks-for-healthcare-workers-local-governments/2262072/
02:31 PM CaptHindsight: it's making the mainstream news
02:34 PM * jym gives CaptHindsight a noogie
02:36 PM jym: Hmmm, pokes CaptHindsight with a stick... no moment
02:36 PM jym: movement*
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: haven't heard noogie in many years
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: sudden urge to watch 3 Stooges
02:38 PM jym: lol
02:38 PM jym: YUK YUK YUK
02:39 PM andypugh: jym: Prepping for the virus apocolypse?
02:42 PM jym: andypugh: Nah, Just looking for a ~7" blade knife good for processing wood, and maybe food prep
02:43 PM gregcnc: https://www.amazon.com/SOG-SOGfari-Machete-MC02-N-Hardcased/dp/B0038A3VF0/
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.cnn.com/style/article/5000-year-old-sword-discovered-in-italy-trnd/index.html
02:43 PM gregcnc: 2.6times moar better
02:44 PM jym: gregcnc: Eh, not really that useful for splitting/batoning wood, I have this already and it's hella hard on the hands https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-97KMS-Kukri-Machete/dp/B000FJRR2K
02:46 PM gregcnc: any knife that work and doesn't cost a fortune seems OK. Google for opinions, IDK as long as the blade isn't crap and the handle doesn't fall apart
02:46 PM jym: gregcnc: https://i.imgur.com/lQfQAQ8.jpg
02:47 PM jym: gregcnc: btw, that is a GREAT saw
02:48 PM andypugh: When I was living in Sheffield I naturally bought locally made cooking knives. https://www.smithfieldknives.co.uk
02:53 PM jym: andypugh: Of course I have/use a 9" cooks knife, and they offer 8 or 10, lol
02:54 PM jym: andypugh: I'm not sure if I would want a carbon knife for food prep or not.
02:55 PM andypugh: Holds a better edge, in theory.
02:56 PM andypugh: But I think that the Smihtield ones are all stainless, after a wuick perusal
02:56 PM jym: Oh sure, just the rust potential
02:56 PM jym: IDK "Full forged high carbon x50Crm0v15 stainless steel balanced blade"
02:56 PM andypugh: Full forged high carbon x50Crm0v15 stainless steel
02:57 PM andypugh: :-)
02:57 PM jym: =)
02:57 PM andypugh: Wierd spelling of CrMo I think.
02:57 PM andypugh: So it’s a Chrome/Molybdenum/Vanadium sttel.
02:58 PM jym: ah ok, I was just googling the steel they mentioned, nothing found metalurically
03:00 PM jym: Man, amazon is out of stock on a LOT of things
03:02 PM SpeedEvil: Lots of companies emailed me last week saying 'we're open, everythings fine' - followed up by 'deliveries only' and then 'closed' this week.
03:02 PM sync: hmm, I wonder what happens if I make an entry for *every* encoder tick of my servo in the compensation table
03:10 PM rmu|w: sync: you get a pretty large compensation table?
03:13 PM sync: yes, but the question is what happens :D
03:17 PM rmu|w: the screw compensation table? i don't think anything particularly strange should happen
03:18 PM Tom_L: is there docs on creating such a table?
03:18 PM Tom_L: i knew it was a feature but have never used it
03:20 PM gregcnc: I still wanting to try X comp by Z position in the lathe if I ever get around to finishing it
03:20 PM rmu|w: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Screw_Compensation but I don't know how current that is, never used it myself
03:21 PM Tom_L: COMP_FILE = in the axis section was the part i was wondering about
03:21 PM Tom_L: 'how to connect it'
03:22 PM rmu|w: sync: this https://forum.linuxcnc.org/10-advanced-configuration/37086-ball-screw-mapping-details-question-solved says you can only have about 250 points per axis
03:22 PM skunkworks: slightly newer version
03:22 PM skunkworks: https://youtu.be/MxeFuF28Yrs
03:23 PM Tom_L: listed in the [JOINT] section in 2.8 docs
03:24 PM Tom_L: the file replaces backlash compensation when used
03:27 PM XXCoder: 25k cases in new york dang
03:28 PM burklefoo: ~45k cases in NY >100K in US
03:35 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, yea screw compensation is in the docs
03:36 PM XXCoder: burklefoo: sorry yeah was talking about city only. new york, new york
03:40 PM burklefoo: Ahh OK NY city is close to 1/2 the states population
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: We're #1 !, We're #1 !, We're #1 !.....
03:45 PM burklefoo: Our chinese vendors are offering us free n95 masks
03:45 PM burklefoo: I thought that was nice
03:47 PM XXCoder: eagle! guns! dieases! bankupicies by healthcare! #1!!!!
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: been getting the email offers as well
03:51 PM gregcnc: was the crypto dollar still in the bill?
04:01 PM CaptHindsight: haven't read the whole bill yet
04:02 PM CaptHindsight: about every 10 years we have some crisis where socialism has to be used to protect the wealthy
04:04 PM CaptHindsight: but somehow it's bad for everyone else
04:12 PM CaptHindsight: I'm waiting to see how they use social distancing against everyone as well besides just adjusting to it
04:16 PM XXCoder: https://imgur.com/gallery/ylEKhmI nice
04:23 PM XXCoder: lol https://i.imgur.com/AtUCtQ1.jpg funny
04:41 PM p0g0: I just wonder how many folks will actually vote.
04:42 PM p0g0: And I am still suggesting that folks spend 2+ weeks in Kentucky and claim domicile then vote- being rid of McConnell, Massie, and Paul will nothing but good for the nation.
04:42 PM p0g0: *will do
04:45 PM p0g0: I admit to being surprised that not a single soul that I know of has done that, much less the few thousand folks it would take to accomplish much.
05:15 PM andypugh: NYC has more cases than the whole of the UK. But then that is a meaningless stat without knowing how many tests have been done.
05:16 PM SpeedEvil: Scotland has done 12000 tests.
05:16 PM SpeedEvil: 1K positive.
05:16 PM SpeedEvil: (I don't happen to remember numbers for england)
05:16 PM andypugh: This was interesting…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XLXg4fYsc
05:17 PM SpeedEvil: ^113k/15K apparently
05:31 PM XXCoder: wow
05:32 PM XXCoder: food store is heavily controlled
05:32 PM XXCoder: theres 2 workees wiping all carts
05:32 PM XXCoder: numbers is limited, they count people entering
05:32 PM _unreal_: heh
05:33 PM XXCoder: saw one lady I think is sick, she was bit red faced, went away
05:33 PM XXCoder: because fuck that
05:34 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, I was showing co workers today the CDC web sites that make this corona bs look so silly. The numbers for H1N1 are staggeringly massive. corona is just about a flat liner by comparison
05:34 PM XXCoder: whatever you say
05:34 PM XXCoder: fuck off
05:34 PM _unreal_: ? its on the CDC website
05:34 PM XXCoder: coronavirus will KILL me for sure, as my lungs are already damaged
05:35 PM _unreal_: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html
05:35 PM Deejay: gn8
05:37 PM _unreal_: Oh interesting they are trying to block PC access to the link for pc's but not phones one sec
05:37 PM _unreal_: for the corona
05:38 PM andypugh: ?
05:38 PM andypugh: I got straight in.
05:38 PM XXCoder: hey andy
05:39 PM _unreal_: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html
05:39 PM _unreal_: look at the total cases LOL
05:39 PM andypugh: H1N1 is estimated at 575,000 deaths. Now, if CoVID-19 is less than that, will you say “it was a sham” or will you say “the measures taken worked” ?
05:39 PM _unreal_: h1n1 was STAGGERING!!! MILLIONS
05:40 PM _unreal_: ! OH news just reported that newyork had thousands on ventilators in a ware house for NY stored in an other state LOL
05:40 PM _unreal_: "" miss placed ""
05:41 PM andypugh: Italy is showing 10,000 deaths and 10,000 recovered. The US is currently at 100,000 cases.
05:41 PM _unreal_: andypugh, h1n1 had estimated 80million infected, and tens of millions confirmed
05:41 PM andypugh: It is hard to interpret the figures, though,
05:41 PM andypugh: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
05:42 PM _unreal_: andypugh, corona was anounced in the us in NOV
05:42 PM _unreal_: thats now 6 months
05:42 PM XXCoder: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 more direct without overlay
05:42 PM _unreal_: so thats multi of millions per month for h1n1 and it was nothing to see here
05:42 PM rmu|w: _unreal_: look what 6 months of preparation got you
05:43 PM _unreal_: rmu|w, nice responce
05:43 PM _unreal_: I have no argument with that
05:43 PM _unreal_: trump shut down asian travel into the US back in jan
05:44 PM andypugh: Hopefully this will look like the Y2K bug. billions spent, millions of man hours, and nothing happened. Because of the money and time spent.
05:44 PM XXCoder: yeah and lots "oh it was overblown" complants
05:44 PM XXCoder: but trend says nope
05:44 PM rmu|w: let's hope so
05:44 PM andypugh: Though, there are 30,000 dead and it’s not really kicked off yet.
05:45 PM XXCoder: 500 billion for companies. 1200 one time for everyone
05:45 PM XXCoder: rest of countries its monthly
05:45 PM XXCoder: because this will last months.
05:45 PM _unreal_: andypugh, I use to work for the world leader in biomedial research, I'm published with them. I am also acredited with changing there identification system for setting the bio and sanitation level of all the different areas around the lab, production area of the lab. AND all of there sub subsidiaries around the world
05:45 PM _unreal_: My name is on it
05:46 PM _unreal_: Jackson Lab
05:46 PM _unreal_: www.jax.org
05:46 PM rmu|w: appeal to authority doesn't work in here
05:46 PM _unreal_: I started in 2k
05:46 PM XXCoder: nice chart https://i.redd.it/7ji35fxrq4p41.png
05:47 PM andypugh: I don’t think it’s “appeal to authority” if you are claiming relevant expertise personally.
05:48 PM _unreal_: I expect the news to switch to show's over in 1 - 2 weeks
05:48 PM andypugh: It is possible that it is because H1N1 was so bad that “they” are taking this one to seriously.
05:48 PM _unreal_: as far as the "sickness"
05:48 PM rmu|w: nevertheless, whatever you say has to have merits on its own ground IMHO
05:48 PM _unreal_: andypugh, I was working for the lab then
05:49 PM _unreal_: trust me it was talked about
05:49 PM andypugh: I do wonder if the economic damage of the response will cause more deaths than the disease.
05:49 PM _unreal_: and "shut down" as far as going to this level. so as not to make obama look bad
05:49 PM XXCoder: that is possible but dont know
05:49 PM _unreal_: andypugh, that is a given
05:49 PM XXCoder: that chart of bailout isnt too bad
05:50 PM XXCoder: if they change it to monthly then not too many deaths will happen
05:50 PM _unreal_: andypugh, life savings, businesses destroyed
05:50 PM XXCoder: what makes me sad is that theyre talking like $1000 is a lot of money
05:50 PM _unreal_: loosing eveery thing
05:50 PM XXCoder: its... not
05:50 PM _unreal_: we have not even hit 1k deaths in the US ACCORDING to the CDC
05:50 PM andypugh: People can’t so maths.
05:50 PM pcw_mesa: The countries that hit it fast and smart have already recovered, countries that bungled their response will have a much tougher time, The US is still on a 10X per 8 day trajectory, the question is, are we doing enough to change that trajectory
05:51 PM XXCoder: usa still not in lockdown
05:51 PM XXCoder: states sure but not country
05:51 PM rmu|w: with exponentials you have to go in with full force immediately
05:51 PM pcw_mesa: us deaths ~1600
05:51 PM _unreal_: how do you even know IFFFF china reported true numbers
05:51 PM rmu|w: not gradually ramp up measures
05:51 PM XXCoder: and the wonderous wonder is saying usa must reopen by april easter
05:52 PM XXCoder: rmu yep! 10 less cases means 10,000 less cases weeks later
05:52 PM XXCoder: more the better
05:52 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, 1600? what source?
05:52 PM _unreal_: cdc or news?
05:52 PM andypugh: https://youtu.be/6egeUxIEQnM?t=357
05:52 PM pcw_mesa: worldometer
05:52 PM andypugh: (on how folk can’t do maths)
05:52 PM rmu|w: https://covidly.com/ says 1566 death in US
05:53 PM _unreal_: if its NOT on the cdc i dont believe it
05:53 PM _unreal_: I use to be a nurse. and when I did my charting. the info I entered was sent depending on what it was to the CDC
05:53 PM rmu|w: anybody know false positive rates of those rt-pcr tests?
05:53 PM _unreal_: I did nursing and bio research for years
05:54 PM _unreal_: I heard hillary clinton tested negative for president
05:54 PM andypugh: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html is probably reliable, but does not seem to be quoting all-US numbers
05:54 PM _unreal_: if its NOT the cdc I dought any of the numbers are accurate.
05:54 PM _unreal_: the CDC by law MUST post the info
05:55 PM andypugh: JHU are quoting CDC as one source.
05:55 PM jthornton: I doubt ANY numbers are accurate due to lack of testing
05:55 PM _unreal_: "quoting"
05:55 PM _unreal_: lol
05:55 PM _unreal_: and yet what does the CDC's site say LOL
05:55 PM XXCoder: yeah
05:55 PM andypugh: It’s unlikely CDC is even reporting on europe or china.
05:55 PM XXCoder: thats why I call it offical records. because reality is worse
05:55 PM _unreal_: andypugh, That I have no idea
05:56 PM andypugh: You saying that you only believe CDC numbers is like me saying I only believe NHS numbers.
05:56 PM rmu|w: testing isn't the holy grail. if test has 3% false positive rate and you test the whole of US you have 10 mio positive.
05:56 PM pcw_mesa: CDC is days out of date
05:56 PM _unreal_: I dont care about being harped on. for NOT believing. the numbers DONT lie, the rate of contraction is jokingly LOW!!!!!
05:57 PM andypugh: That’s possible
05:57 PM andypugh: The fact is that the sampling is really variable
05:58 PM rmu|w: case numbers from different countries are not comparable directly
05:58 PM rmu|w: even number of dead is not really comparable
05:58 PM andypugh: In the UK something like 30% of tests are coming back positive, but then they are only testing sick people.
05:58 PM _unreal_: just like the gov of NY is now been busted for claiming they dont have ventilators and come to find out they have thousands in multi ware houses
05:58 PM _unreal_: just today
05:59 PM andypugh: Yes, Italy is quoting all deaths of CV-postive people. But a fair number of them might have been due to die of other things anyway.
05:59 PM _unreal_: rmu|w, more people die from the what is considered the common flu by huge multipals every day
05:59 PM _unreal_: compaired to this corona
05:59 PM rmu|w: nonetheless, number of dead in italy and number of hospitalized persons is way out of normal
06:00 PM _unreal_: again the numbers are staggeringly high and corona is a flat liner
06:00 PM XXCoder: i wonder how many countries is hiding real results
06:00 PM andypugh: Also, AFAIK the UK is doing PCR for viral DNA. This is slow and accurate, but is a different test to doing antibody tests or antigen tesys.
06:00 PM _unreal_: rmu|w, italy also does not have a large medical buffer of beds etc...
06:01 PM rmu|w: _unreal_: flu is not clogging up intensive care units. and if people wanted they could get a flu shot.
06:01 PM andypugh: Sorry, I mean viral RNA, of course.
06:01 PM rmu|w: andypugh: everybody is doing some kind of PCR tests
06:01 PM andypugh: I don’t think that the 2-minute tests are PCR.
06:02 PM XXCoder: canada and usa border https://imgur.com/a/Z18aIk2
06:02 PM rmu|w: _unreal_: i wouldn't be so sure about number of hospital beds in italy
06:02 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, do some research. this corona bs is an initiative to push for mandating vaccinations and chipping people
06:02 PM rmu|w: andypugh: no, 2minute test is not PCR, that takes in the best case 1 hour, typical lab machines take 4-5 hours incl. preparation of samples
06:02 PM andypugh: (Yes, everyone is doing PCR too, but there are also faster but less precise tests being pushed out)
06:03 PM rmu|w: i think antibody tests are being introduced via fast-track-certification just now
06:03 PM rmu|w: s/think/read/
06:03 PM rmu|w: in german https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Ein-tieferer-Einblick-in-die-Infektions-Tests-gegen-Coronavirus-SARS-CoV-2-4691821.html
06:04 PM rmu|w: mandatory vaccinations and chipping people? being performend by the black UNO helicopter crews?
06:04 PM _unreal_: one of the cuntries in the UK just passed a law
06:05 PM _unreal_: damn I dont remember which one
06:05 PM rmu|w: uk is worse off regarding hospital beds and intensive care units than italy (per capita)
06:06 PM XXCoder: keep in mind nobody is owed a debate everyone :)
06:06 PM _unreal_: rmu|w, ya I think I hard that.
06:06 PM _unreal_: I think Britain was really low
06:08 PM rmu|w: something like 5000
06:08 PM * _unreal_ ? I should be doing cad
06:08 PM rmu|w: and i'm off to bed
06:08 PM rmu|w: good night
06:08 PM XXCoder: later
06:08 PM rmu|w: (8 past midnight here)
06:08 PM rmu|w: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/03/12/the-countries-with-the-most-critical-care-beds-per-capita-infographic/
06:10 PM andypugh: I read that the UK runs at 85% ICU bed utilisation.
06:10 PM XXCoder: interesting
06:10 PM XXCoder: china is pretty damn good on beds. started too low but they build large hospitals very fast
06:10 PM andypugh: (And, that is probabluy about the right level when they are funded from the public purse)
06:10 PM XXCoder: those will fall apart in a year but dont matter
06:11 PM andypugh: I am puzzled why Germany has so many.
06:11 PM XXCoder: just learned hundreds of iranians died from fake cure
06:11 PM XXCoder: ouch
06:12 PM XXCoder: 300+ and 1000 ill from fake cure but not died
06:13 PM _unreal_: andypugh, the areas That are hot spots for out break. Have the highest rate of chines visitation.
06:14 PM andypugh: (Given that 6.6 / 100,000 works out at 85% occupancy, that suggests that the US and Germany have about 20% ICU bed utilisation.
06:14 PM roycroft: did anyone respond to my request for a brit earlier?
06:14 PM andypugh: Hmm?
06:14 PM roycroft: i've been away - i had a work situation to deal with
06:15 PM roycroft: aah
06:15 PM roycroft: andypugh
06:15 PM roycroft: maybe just who i want to talk to :)
06:15 PM roycroft: there's a well-known woodworker, his name is paul sellers
06:15 PM roycroft: i'm trying to identify where he's from
06:15 PM roycroft: i think he's welsh or cornish, but two friends think he's from yorkshire
06:15 PM roycroft: i'd like a native's opinion on his dialect
06:15 PM andypugh: Ah, based on accent?
06:15 PM roycroft: yes
06:16 PM roycroft: he has a bunch of videos on youtube
06:16 PM roycroft: if you have a moment, and don't mind, would you listen to him for a few seconds and let me know what you think?
06:16 PM roycroft: both the accent and the way he constructs sentences
06:17 PM rmu|w: andypugh: don't think german ICU beds run at 20%. that would mean US beds run at 10%.
06:17 PM roycroft: he'll say things like "now i'll offer the sawblade to the wood"
06:17 PM andypugh: He can’t spell “Mortice” so I thinks he’s American :-)
06:17 PM roycroft: and i've not heard the verb "offer" used that way very much, but i did have a welsh friend who used it that way
06:17 PM roycroft: he lived in texas for a few years before going back to the uk
06:18 PM roycroft: so that may have tainted his spelling
06:18 PM andypugh: He’s Northern. Possibly Yorkshire, maybe Lancashire. Could be Lincolnshire.
06:19 PM roycroft: he's *not* northumbrian, that i know for sure
06:19 PM roycroft: really?
06:19 PM roycroft: hmm
06:19 PM roycroft: he pronounces the letter 'u' unlike anyone i've heard from that region
06:19 PM roycroft: bit o
06:20 PM roycroft: ack
06:20 PM roycroft: but i'm not expert
06:20 PM roycroft: which is why i'm asking a local :)
06:20 PM andypugh: I can’t quite place him, but there’s nowt Welsh there.
06:20 PM roycroft: the accent is not quite like anything i've ever heard
06:21 PM andypugh: I think he’s a bit like me, Northern vowels but has moved around a lit.
06:21 PM andypugh: (lot)
06:21 PM roycroft: it doesn't really matter, of course, but i'm always curious about regional differences in languages
06:22 PM roycroft: so he's an intra-language polyglot
06:22 PM andypugh: Aye, appen so.
06:22 PM roycroft: thanks for taking a listen
06:22 PM andypugh: Guy Martin is Lincolnshire but often mistaken for Yorkshire. His is a strong accent, but listen to the vowels. https://youtu.be/wJ9aO5yvT3k?t=120
06:24 PM roycroft: he talks really fast and kind of mumbles
06:24 PM roycroft: it's a bit challenging listening to him
06:25 PM andypugh: Did you see my post to the mailing list? Geordie machinist (Doubleboost) is great anyway, but hilarious with the auto-captions on.
06:26 PM roycroft: i can see some similarities in the vowel sounds
06:26 PM roycroft: i did not see that - i don't follow the mailing list closely
06:26 PM roycroft: i catch up every once in a while
06:27 PM andypugh: If “I’m going to” sounds like “Am goin to” then it’s a Noerthern accent. We didn’t have the “Great Vowel Shift” so retain germanic vowel sounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift
06:29 PM andypugh: Geordi accent. Turn on subtitles for utter nonsense :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX68sOHZ12M
06:31 PM roycroft: i've been watching his videos for a long time, but never with cc on
06:31 PM roycroft: he's a lot easier to understand with the captions turned off :)
06:32 PM XXCoder: short for slip bomb
06:32 PM XXCoder: okay
06:32 PM andypugh: Isn’t he :-)
06:32 PM XXCoder: i'vw got a little punchier is olviously being sterilized
06:34 PM roycroft: you can tell it's a brand new video
06:34 PM roycroft: he has a big tear in one of his nitrile gloves
06:34 PM XXCoder: its in color?
06:34 PM roycroft: but hasn't swapped it out for another
06:35 PM roycroft: back in ancient times, pre-march, we would swap gloves that are damaged without a second thought
06:35 PM roycroft: now we try to reuse them for at least a year, no matter their condition
06:37 PM roycroft: so we pronounce "dovetail" "duhvtale"
06:38 PM roycroft: paul sellers pronounces it "doovtale"
06:39 PM roycroft: which is a germanic vowel sound, but not a germanic 'o' vowel sound
06:39 PM roycroft: actually, it's slightly akin to a short german o-umlaut
06:43 PM andypugh: Well, as a northerner I would pronounce “dovetail” as “dovetail” whereas those in the south of england would pronoiunce it wrongly. Hope that helps :-)
06:43 PM p0g0: I have lived in places where the word "no" was a three syllable phonic.
06:44 PM p0g0: (Plains of Canterbury, South Island, New Zealand)
06:45 PM roycroft: australians pronounce it "naaayyeeeeeoooo"
06:45 PM roycroft: so similar to what you
06:45 PM roycroft: are saying
06:45 PM p0g0: yeah, about like that. impressive really.
06:46 PM roycroft: as much as australians and kiwis insist that their accents are totally unrelated, there are some similarities
06:47 PM p0g0: well, the sound was more "newoouhgh" but that loses something as text.
06:50 PM roycroft: listening to more northerners, i can see the similarities in seller's pronunciation to some of them, but his accent still seems distinctly different to them
06:51 PM roycroft: and his phraseology is also quite distinctive
06:51 PM andypugh: I agree. I am a lot more confident in saying where is isn’t from (Wales or Cornwall) than where is actualy is from.
06:52 PM roycroft: but if andypugh's speculation is correct, that he has moved about a lot, then his phraseology could easily have shifted, while his native accent not so much
06:52 PM roycroft: the southern welsh and cornish accent is a bit more sing-songly, now that i consider it more
06:52 PM roycroft: seller's vowel sounds, while unusual, are fairly pure
06:52 PM roycroft: and yes, that is a northern trait
06:53 PM andypugh: For comparison, have you heard Brian Cox, a strong Mancunian (Manchester, Lancashire) accent, but an educated one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK4nLQm9ezg
06:53 PM roycroft: sellers', rather
06:55 PM roycroft: he sounds mancunian, yes
06:55 PM andypugh: Sellers appears to _live_ in Wales (Wrexham)
06:56 PM roycroft: does he?
06:56 PM roycroft: i only know that he spent a few years living in texas
06:56 PM roycroft: i really have no idea where he's originaly from or lives now, other than "the uk"
06:56 PM andypugh: https://paulsellers.com
06:57 PM andypugh: Address in Wrexham
06:57 PM roycroft: aah
06:57 PM roycroft: i know his woodworking master classes website, and his youtube channel
06:57 PM andypugh: But: Paul Sellers describes himself as a lifelong amateur woodworker. Paul began woodworking in a small joiner’s workshop in Stockport, England in 1965.
06:57 PM andypugh: Paul spent a large part of his working life in the USA where he taught woodworking courses.
06:57 PM roycroft: woodworking masterclasses.com
06:57 PM roycroft: i did not know he had a personal website
06:58 PM andypugh: So, Stockport sounds about right for the accent
06:58 PM roycroft: yes
06:58 PM roycroft: somewhat northern, but not really northeastern
06:59 PM roycroft: northern midlands, i suppose
07:00 PM roycroft: to my ear, though, a mancunian accent is more like liverpudlian than the way sellers talks
07:00 PM roycroft: but not as oddly contorted as liverpudlian
07:00 PM sync: oh interesting rmu|w
07:00 PM andypugh: You might enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9hzEno0p8s
07:01 PM andypugh: And bear in mind this is moving no more than 100 miles in any direction.
07:03 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/73uATsa8y5Y?t=16 not sure if SpeedEvil can decipher this
07:03 PM SpeedEvil: yes
07:03 PM roycroft: yes, that is well done
07:04 PM SpeedEvil: That is about 50 miles northwest of me
07:04 PM CaptHindsight: SpeedEvil: it sounds fast
07:05 PM roycroft: that's not hard to understand
07:06 PM roycroft: but i can understand most people from scotland, the working class scots speakers from greenock and glasgow notwithstanding
07:06 PM CaptHindsight: i meant the Americans :)
07:06 PM roycroft: but i'm not sure those folks can even understand each other
07:07 PM roycroft: if you want american accents that are hard to understand, head to rural southern illinois some time
07:08 PM roycroft: that's the only part of this country i've ever been where i had a hard time understanding the locals
07:08 PM roycroft: and i had relatives down there, so i spent a fair amount of time in southern illinois
07:12 PM SpeedEvil: yeah - that's not a particularly thick accent
07:12 PM SpeedEvil: having said that - basically every slightly younger person has a more sane accent they can use.
07:19 PM sync: hmm I wonder what the actual issue is, probably the size of emcmot_command_t
07:21 PM _unreal_: There DONE just finished drawing and cam'ing my ac power filter
07:21 PM _unreal_: I'm building a filter much like this https://www.vishnumaiea.in/projects/hardware/diy-surge-protector-line-filter
07:22 PM andypugh: sync: Context?
07:22 PM _unreal_: roycroft, when I use to be a waiter and bar tender GOD many many years ago
07:22 PM _unreal_: I had an australian ask me once if I was a LIKAL
07:23 PM _unreal_: I said "a what now"
07:23 PM _unreal_: and LIKAL
07:23 PM _unreal_: can you spell that I asked?
07:23 PM _unreal_: he said local
07:23 PM _unreal_: heheheheeheh
07:24 PM sync: andypugh: I wondered about what would happen if I added a comp table entry for *every* encoder count my machine could resolve
07:25 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, What mesa would you suggest I forget I know I asked before but I forgot to right it down.
07:25 PM sync: and now I'm getting whiplash reading emc/motion/motion.h due to some ... interesting whitespaces
07:25 PM _unreal_: driving brushed servos and looking for the cheapest
07:25 PM andypugh: I can’t see why it would be a problem for code or maths, but if your leadscrew is messed-up enough to need that, you have worse problems.
07:25 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, likely needing ethernet interface
07:26 PM _unreal_: ve7it, sup
07:26 PM pcw_mesa: _unreal_: like PWM out encoder feedback?
07:27 PM _unreal_: quadrature output control
07:27 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, I built these http://ve7it.cowlug.org/dspic-servo.html
07:27 PM sync: andypugh: no, the screw is fine but I can map each encoder step of my machine
07:27 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, I'm not worried about $ now. where I work cant be shut down
07:28 PM andypugh: sync: Yes, but, well, why would you?
07:28 PM _unreal_: because we do a lot of repairs on coast guard ships etc..
07:28 PM sync: fun and ... fun :D
07:28 PM pcw_mesa: _unreal_: so basically a step/dir interface?
07:28 PM _unreal_: quadrature instead of step/dir
07:28 PM sync: (rene and I adapted an interferometer to our haas VMC)
07:29 PM _unreal_: theres pwm, step/dir and quadrature. I dont know if there are any other motions data streams? serial maybe
07:31 PM pcw_mesa: Quadrature is one of the stepgens output options (step/dir,CW/CCW,Quadrature)
07:32 PM _unreal_: right its just the motion control method. regardless looking for the cheaper end mesa controller. I'm assuming ethernet pc interface
07:32 PM _unreal_: I'd also like to take the encoder feed back from the motors and feed that to the mesa drive for active feed back. if I manually move the machine
07:33 PM pcw_mesa: Cheapest with no output buffering would be a 7I92 or 7I93
07:33 PM _unreal_: output buffering?
07:34 PM _unreal_: of steps i'm sure but not sure how it works?
07:34 PM sync: andypugh: and I wrote a script that reads the interferometer through a mesa card, so I could map every encoder count of the machine if I wanted to
07:34 PM _unreal_: I'm just not sure what the buffering offers
07:34 PM _unreal_: advantage wise?
07:34 PM pcw_mesa: 7I92 = 2X parallel port equivalent (2x 25 pin 34 total I/O pins)
07:34 PM pcw_mesa: 7I92 = 2X 50 pin (48 total I/O pins)
07:35 PM pcw_mesa: opps last should be 7I93
07:35 PM _unreal_: figured
07:35 PM _unreal_: ! how dare you oops me ;)
07:35 PM andypugh: I wonder if there is a risk of _adding_ noise? This may get in to odd corners of information theory.
07:36 PM _unreal_: andypugh, white noise?
07:36 PM _unreal_: ;)
07:36 PM andypugh: How many orders of magnitude more accurate than the encoder is your interferometer?
07:36 PM pcw_mesa: these cards have direct FPGA I/O so 3.3V outputs 5V tolerant but somewhat easy to damage (connect to 12V or -1V)
07:36 PM sync: andypugh: yes
07:37 PM sync: at least three OOM
07:37 PM andypugh: In that case I would anticipate it working OK. But if it turns out to be a total failure I expect I could explain why, after the fact :-)
07:38 PM _unreal_: Oh power buffering
07:38 PM pcw_mesa: You can use the FPGA I/O directly but if you do, best to add a 100 Ohm or so series resistor to prevent killing the negative clamp diodes with ground bumping
07:38 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, they would be connected to pic chips
07:38 PM _unreal_: TTL 5v
07:39 PM pcw_mesa: yeah but, you are PWMing a motor so may have significant ground bumping
07:39 PM _unreal_: ahhhhhh
07:39 PM _unreal_: ok
07:40 PM sync: andypugh: yeah I understand what you mean
07:40 PM sync: but I think I'm safe here
07:40 PM sync: (encoder resolution is only like 750nm)
07:40 PM _unreal_: and same cards that do offer buffer?
07:40 PM sync: due to reasons
07:40 PM _unreal_: same=similar
07:41 PM rene_dev_: Andypugh interferometers have by definition no error. There is no standard for calibrating them.
07:41 PM pcw_mesa: a 7I96 has 5 axis of buffered step/dir but costs a bit more
07:42 PM andypugh: rene_dev_: That seems like it should be true of _good_ interferometers.
07:43 PM rene_dev_: How do you make a bad one?
07:43 PM andypugh: The underlying physics is reliable. But the rest of the system that outputs numbers in engineering units has scope to be wrong.
07:43 PM rene_dev_: it uses nixies for display output
07:43 PM _unreal_: OOOOOOOh that had to hurt.... I just went out side for a sec to my car and a Gecko on the over hang area freaked out started running and lost its grip. fell and belly flopped at my feat on the cement
07:43 PM rene_dev_: you can always trust nixies
07:44 PM andypugh: Good point :-)
07:44 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, $40 not bad
07:45 PM rene_dev_: It works like an encoder, because its incremental
07:45 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, I expect to have upto 60khz or greater
07:45 PM andypugh: Missed counts seem like an option, if you move too fast?
07:45 PM _unreal_: My goal anyways
07:45 PM rene_dev_: if you dont loose steps, the readout unit still works
07:45 PM sync: it knows when you speed too fast
07:45 PM sync: and says no, not today
07:45 PM rene_dev_: its easy to test for lost steps by going to the start position
07:46 PM rene_dev_: too bad light doesn’t have a index pulse
07:46 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, Whats killing right now is a friend had offered to take my sheet metal and turn it into the box
07:46 PM _unreal_: but this corona BS is really fucking everything up. his company has a barbreak
07:47 PM rene_dev_: Andypugh http://twitter.com/Rene_dev/status/1235941774759260161
07:47 PM rene_dev_: thats in low res mode
07:54 PM andypugh: I used one of these a fair bit at work
07:54 PM andypugh: https://www.polytec.com/uk/vibrometry/products/single-point-vibrometers/ofv-5000-modular-vibrometer/
07:54 PM sync: yes, I also have the single beam optics
07:54 PM andypugh: They can measure to a resolution of 0.1pm and at 24MHz (though I don’t think they do both at the same time)
07:54 PM sync: which do essentially the same
07:54 PM andypugh: We certainly used them to track part vibrations at kHz at nm resolution.
07:54 PM rene_dev_: I had to modify the weighted sum component to support more bits :D
07:56 PM pcw_mesa: Yay! Parity works on the PktUART (at least it works with itself not sure if odd/even agree with the outside world yet)
07:58 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, I have a pcb that I bet you would like the design from. came from some REALLLLY REALLY old credit card like mfg machine for both writing to the magnetic strip and stamping words into the plastic. but it had this little board that has 6 opto sensors hooked to it.
07:58 PM _unreal_: and it has two lm339's I think? I'd have to look at it again
07:58 PM _unreal_: well the quad and dual
07:58 PM XXCoder: man advert thats very out of touch with current reality
07:59 PM XXCoder: "is our focus ready for spring road trips?"
07:59 PM XXCoder: *your
07:59 PM sync: that sounds pretty typical andypugh
07:59 PM sync: but I guess I could fiber couple my stuff
08:08 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, any thing else I should add to that? 7i96?
08:10 PM pcw_mesa: should be enough to start with
08:10 PM _unreal_: ok, ya didnt see anything shown as supporting additional hardware, features etc...
08:11 PM _unreal_: going with the 7i96
08:11 PM _unreal_: adapter cables?
08:11 PM pcw_mesa: You can add a daughter card or 2 if you wish but the 7I96 should get you going
08:12 PM pcw_mesa: Boss says its time to go home so bbl
08:12 PM _unreal_: ya I dont think I need any daughter cards
08:12 PM Tom_L: don't wanna get fired!
08:12 PM _unreal_: I guess we know who wears the pants
08:13 PM _unreal_: pcw_mesa, when you get back. no photos just reading and seeing things like mounting brackets adapter wire harnesses etc...
08:14 PM Tom_L: you want din rail mounts?
08:14 PM Tom_L: he has those
08:14 PM Tom_L: the screw headers eliminate the need for harnesses
08:14 PM Tom_L: make your own
08:15 PM CaptHindsight: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/WJhoZdzdZQSrtvrgbeWdsfIJ
08:15 PM Tom_L: mine looks like crap but it runs solid as a rock
08:15 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, oh.....
08:15 PM _unreal_: I have all kinds of din rail on hand
08:15 PM Tom_L: jt has those mesa parts too
08:15 PM _unreal_: Tom_L, I have all kinds of interesting sensors as well that mount to dinrail
08:16 PM _unreal_: stuff the boats toss all the time
08:16 PM _unreal_: ?
08:17 PM Tom_L: https://mesaus.com/product-category/hardware/
08:17 PM Tom_L: that's JT's site