#linuxcnc Logs

Mar 18 2020

12:06 AM tjtr33: re: rpi 4 and KMS and hardware acceleration "Pi 4 does not support the legacy driver, so FKMS is the only option right now if you want HW accelerated 3D support"
12:18 AM CaptHindsight: accelerated graphics, via V3D / Mesa
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: support for the Pi's VC4 GPU (VC6 on the Pi4) has been included (using vc4-fkms-v3d / Mesa)
12:26 AM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi-64bit
12:33 AM tjtr33: THX!
12:35 AM tjtr33: re mini 3040, in stock in Florida, < 700$ shipped in USA . stock at 4719 17th Ave S. ST Petersburg,FLA USA 33711
12:35 AM tjtr33: https://th.aliexpress.com/item/4000218008981.html
12:38 AM CaptHindsight: with shipping?
12:39 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: I have your old one still in parts
12:40 AM CaptHindsight: should i check on ocean freight?
12:40 AM tjtr33: wow https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sakaki-/resources/master/raspberrypi/pi4/demo-screenshot-1.5.2-pi4-ds-white-bg.jpg
12:41 AM tjtr33: i'd try to contact the Florida office or ask a question onthat website
12:41 AM tjtr33: i wish i had that machine here :-('''''''
12:41 AM CaptHindsight: what do you think the weight is?
12:42 AM tjtr33: lemme look
12:42 AM CaptHindsight: 250lbs packed?
12:43 AM tjtr33: 145 kilo unpacked, "Please contact US TO discuss The shipping cost!"
12:45 AM CaptHindsight: so 325lbs
12:46 AM tjtr33: google maps show that address as a tiny wood bungalow, like near you in Lake Zurich . Not a commercial building
12:46 AM CaptHindsight: heh
12:47 AM tjtr33: maybe drive a car down and pick it up
12:47 AM CaptHindsight: UPS air would be $400 if you were near the airport
12:48 AM tjtr33: if you have a big mill to deck the pieces, it might be worth it ( add rails, motors limits) less than a 10K mini mill from others
12:48 AM CaptHindsight: we ship to Singapore regularly and the rate is similar
12:49 AM tjtr33: thats cheaper shipping than i can find here from guandong CN ( where its made) to chiangmai TH
12:50 AM tjtr33: TH is not set up for manufacturing. Its a tourist driven economy. needs to change to useful products/services
12:51 AM tjtr33: ok thx Capt, i will dl that img and try on PI4 and the rtai image for the desktop.
12:52 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: what the local zip for chiangmai?
12:54 AM CaptHindsight: it's usually cheaper to ship to the airport for pickup
12:55 AM CaptHindsight: ocean freight is cheap but then you'll have to get it from Bangkok
12:55 AM CaptHindsight: 8-10 weeks
12:55 AM CaptHindsight: if they don't break it :)
12:56 AM CaptHindsight: https://imgur.com/nFAsIhU 200 gallons lost :)
01:02 AM tjtr33: Im in the 'county' of HangDong, in the 'state' of ChiangMai but zip is simple 50230
01:03 AM tjtr33: address in asia are weird, not likek chicago where you can tell the side of the street by the house number. here
01:04 AM CaptHindsight: close enough to get a quote
01:04 AM tjtr33: address 1 is the lot sold to Joe, and 1/1 is the lot Joe sold to Frank, and has no geometric relation to any grid.
01:05 AM tjtr33: I'm at 224/502 and my neighbors are nowhere near me numericaly
01:05 AM CaptHindsight: are you hiding from the virus?
01:06 AM tjtr33: haha , yes, wearing N100 masks and blue gloves while walking dogs (6 of em ). Avoiding crowds but still have to goto BigBox for supplies.
01:07 AM tjtr33: esp the fresh produce. Most people wear masks here anyway. Not just for Covid19, but the air quality is 2nd to Delhi
01:07 AM CaptHindsight: was always the first thing I'd notice after leaving the airports
01:08 AM tjtr33: the pm25 was 473 2 days ago ( scale ends at 500 ), today only 173. I write it down on a calendar, caomparingto Pinang MY.
01:08 AM CaptHindsight: didn't know it was bad there
01:09 AM tjtr33: So we are inside riding bikes on tariners, hulahooping, calesthenics (-10 sp )
01:10 AM tjtr33: yeah, i can _see_ the end of the street and tell y you within 50 points. Buts thats the pm10 that i see/
01:10 AM tjtr33: hope you and yours are ok, Thailand is so friendly with China, I wonder about the numbers reported here.
01:11 AM CaptHindsight: we are fine
01:11 AM tjtr33: well its goodby from me, goodluck & goodhealth wash your hands, dont look at the stock market ( very bad for your health )
01:12 AM CaptHindsight: brutal
01:12 AM CaptHindsight: I'll check on freight
01:12 AM CaptHindsight: let you know later
01:13 AM tjtr33: hey very nice thanks
01:38 AM veegee: LOL I'm watching my cat explore a packing tape dispenser
01:38 AM veegee: silly cat
01:38 AM veegee: whiskers getting stuck to the tape and he still plays with it over and over again
02:47 AM Deejay: moin
04:58 AM jthornton: morning
04:58 AM XXCoder: hey
05:00 AM jthornton: we are up to 16 cases here so it's spreading quick
05:00 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:00 AM XXCoder: think its over thousand in wa now
05:00 AM jthornton: yea
05:01 AM XXCoder: my bro now purely works at home
05:01 AM XXCoder: his already riciously low trip miles to work is now zero
05:01 AM jthornton: west virginia is only 1
05:01 AM XXCoder: miles i lied heh it wasnt even mile
05:01 AM jthornton: what kind of work does he do
05:02 AM XXCoder: dvr
05:02 AM p0g0: the reported #s here reflect our lack of tests...
05:03 AM p0g0: You want a very sobering POV, viz: propublica.org
06:56 AM gregcnc: https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/17/21184308/coronavirus-italy-medical-company-threatens-sue-3d-print-valves-treatments
07:23 AM Javabean: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/japanese-flu-drug-clearly-effective-in-treating-coronavirus-says-china
07:53 AM p0g0: gregcnc, honestly, I would like to see that patent holder in a courtroom, they won't like what happens to them or to the entire patent system.
07:54 AM gregcnc: yeah, i don't know how much it cost to develop such a valve, but don't understand how those people sleep at night if production is cheap
07:54 AM gregcnc: this is the entire problem with the medical system overall
07:54 AM p0g0: as otherwise noted, they sleep well on piles of money.
07:55 AM p0g0: Not just medical, but yeah they are a poster child for the abuse.
07:55 AM gregcnc: a single dose of ibuprofen administered at the hospital hunderds of USD
07:55 AM Loetmichel: the funny thing is that said supplier CANT deliver. the hospitals wouldnt have resorted to 3dprinting if he would have sold them enough valves in the first place
07:56 AM Javabean: and don't forget, on top of the price the hospital charges the doctors and nurses are "independant contractors" so they give you a bill as well as the hospital
07:56 AM gregcnc: well normal volume for that kind of part is small
07:56 AM Loetmichel: and in the european patent system has a clause for exact that possibility iirc
07:56 AM p0g0: In the US, Pharma has been abusing the patent system + FDA certification for a long time. The Feds have been a huge backer of that- they had and have law that allows them to blow off those patents, and to be the 1000 kg gorilla that can set pricing, but they won't.
07:57 AM Loetmichel: meaning that if they PROVE that he wasnt willing/able to deliver he can write off the entiere patent ;)
07:57 AM p0g0: The US was not shy about taking my dad's first patent in WW2, for example.
07:58 AM gregcnc: that company blew a huge chance for positive publicity, oh well
07:59 AM p0g0: Heck, Ron Paul, Rand Paul's dad, ex-senator from Texas mouthed off about trying to keep the newly un-employed from getting any relief...his son (also a US Senator) recently went to Canada for his medical care.
07:59 AM Loetmichel: thats beancounter accountants for you
08:00 AM p0g0: I remain astounded by my fellow citizens that cannot wrap their heads around the fact they are being shorn like sheep.
08:01 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: if they would have supported the 3dprinting guys with construction plans and generally made clear that that is only good as long as they cant deliver the real thing it would not only had a positive impact on their company it would also have cost them nothing because they simply cant deliver.
08:02 AM gregcnc: loetmichel, absolutely.
08:02 AM p0g0: Hmm, they weren't about to let go of selling a $1 part for $1100.
08:02 AM gregcnc: however, if someone dies because the valves failed, lawyers would ahve the companies ass
08:03 AM Loetmichel: nope
08:03 AM Loetmichel: because they didnt make them
08:03 AM gregcnc: they would here
08:03 AM p0g0: That's King John, Magna Carta stuff.
08:03 AM gregcnc: they approved the production
08:03 AM Loetmichel: that would be on the 3dprinting guys and the hospital
08:03 AM gregcnc: if it's on them, they won't make the parts
08:04 AM p0g0: gregcnc, it is different threatening lawsuits than keeping a hands off.
08:04 AM gregcnc: and that's what it comes down to
08:04 AM p0g0: If they'd just shut up, they wouldn't have any liability at all.
08:05 AM p0g0: It was not their code that got printed.
08:05 AM gregcnc: they copied the patented part to print, it wasn't on thingverse
08:05 AM p0g0: And there is not a court in Italy that would find fault in the folks saving lots of lives by making valves.
08:06 AM p0g0: yes, and that's not an issue- unless the patent owner got in the fight, like they chose to do.
08:06 AM Loetmichel: gregcnc: not in europe. IIRC the 3d guys asked for specs as in airflow needed and copupling diameter. NOT the entire construction done for them
08:07 AM p0g0: And as I first stated, I want to see some fool company try to get into a courtroom now over such things.
08:07 AM Loetmichel: indeed
08:07 AM gregcnc: if they designed their own valve that's different. but if they couldn't reverse engineer from existing parts... idon't know
08:08 AM p0g0: They may get some relief under the law, and then they will get burned at the stake by the public.
08:08 AM p0g0: Folks RE all the time.
08:08 AM p0g0: It's about "Clean rooms" and "information curtains"
08:09 AM Loetmichel: p0g0: funny thing is: as the 3dprint guys didnt take money for it there isnt even "loss" for the company at all, so a patent claim is useless here in europe anyways
08:09 AM p0g0: That is, did they re-develop or just steal. And in this case, just stealing is not enough a crime compared to letting folks die.
08:10 AM Loetmichel: also as i stated earlier there is a clause in european patent law to the meaning of "if the patent holder is neither willing nor able to deliver spare parts its your RIGHT to reverse engineer and make them yourself"
08:11 AM p0g0: Here in the US, it is in fact a crime to drive away from something where you know someone's life is at risk- the crime isn't that you are an untrained EMS, and that you tried to save someone's life, it's that you didn't try.
08:11 AM Loetmichel: same in europe
08:11 AM p0g0: So what would normally be a medical malpractice suit is just the opposite.
08:12 AM Javabean: p0g0: i understand that such is a state level law
08:12 AM Loetmichel: called "samaritan law" or something
08:12 AM t4nk_freenode: sorry officer, I got so scared I pooped my pants and ran away
08:12 AM kanzure_ is now known as kanzure
08:12 AM p0g0: As a class, the "good samaritan" laws
08:13 AM Loetmichel: you HAVE to help if you know of someone that needs help. to the best of your abilities. and you cant held responsible if you do it wrong because you didnt knew better
08:13 AM Loetmichel: t4nk_freenode: that defense will not help you in court i am afraid.
08:13 AM p0g0: I suspect such laws are common around the world. People have a need to try a give and get help in such cases.
08:13 AM t4nk_freenode: hell yes it will!
08:14 AM Javabean: as i understand, some states claim that if you don't have a first-aid card and perform "first-aid" the family can sue depending on outcome
08:14 AM t4nk_freenode: I'm a sick man
08:14 AM t4nk_freenode: in da head ;)
08:14 AM Loetmichel: Javabean: in europe thats explicitely out of the picture
08:15 AM Loetmichel: if you do to the best of your abilities nobody can hold you responsible if it goes downhill despite your efforts
08:15 AM Javabean: welcome to 'murica... they sue if their McD's fries are cold when they get home
08:15 AM Loetmichel: or even BECAUSE of your efforts
08:15 AM t4nk_freenode: hehe
08:15 AM p0g0: Javabean, I wonder if you can name a state, I don't think I know one that has such. Tho Missouri has some terrible laws about medical debt collection, so I'd start by looking there.
08:15 AM p0g0: Javabean, you can sue because the sky is blue, but you won't win.
08:15 AM Javabean: check out new mexico... be warned, shit's crazy yo
08:16 AM p0g0: I have had clients sue me to make their bill go away because they didn't want to pay it...
08:16 AM p0g0: They lost.
08:16 AM Loetmichel: p0g0: seen the case akhila vs. sargon?
08:16 AM p0g0: no
08:16 AM Loetmichel: maaan have i pissed myself laughing lately
08:16 AM p0g0: should I look it up
08:16 AM Loetmichel: akhila, actually vs sargon of akkad
08:17 AM Loetmichel: akhila made a video about how she thought hillary would win, sargon took that viode, reeditet/shortended it and titled it "SJW levels of awareness"
08:18 AM Loetmichel: so far so asshole of him.
08:18 AM p0g0: Javabean, it is pretty common that even if the law is clear and you lose, the jury awards a fine of $1 and won't make you pay the litigant's court costs.
08:18 AM Loetmichel: but akhila took offense and tried to sue him for copyright infringement
08:18 AM Javabean: i haven't heard that one before, p0g0
08:18 AM p0g0: Javabean, look it up, it happens often enough.
08:19 AM Loetmichel: and bragged on twitter for 3 years straight how she would make sargon homeless and will get heaps of money from him
08:19 AM Loetmichel: ... even AFTER the judge told here that "it looks like quintessetially fair use to me"
08:19 AM Loetmichel: :-)
08:20 AM Loetmichel: ... now after the judge threw the entiere case out sargon sues her for his lawyer costs.
08:22 AM Loetmichel: i dont like that sargon guy particulary well (not my alley of political beliefs) but i must say that that black chick that thought she could play the race card and silence his "critizism" via copyright absolutely earned it if she now has to pay $40k to sargons lawyers
08:53 AM tjtr33: CaptHindsight, both Gentoo images boot up fine, video audio wifi all ok,theres a 'framebuffer' option i need to play with , thanks!
08:56 AM jymmmm: good morning
08:57 AM t4nk_freenode: gentoo images?
08:58 AM t4nk_freenode: good moaning, jymmmm
08:58 AM t4nk_freenode: ah, rpi..
09:01 AM tjtr33: and amd64 too
09:22 AM skunkworks: tjtr33: I only knew of the fake kms. How do I play with the native?
09:30 AM Javabean: https://www.sciencealert.com/who-recommends-to-avoid-taking-ibuprofen-for-covid-19-symptoms
09:32 AM t4nk_freenode: pffffff
09:32 AM tjtr33: skunkworks, I use FKMS on the rpi4. The raspi config had 3 options Legacy, Full KMS, and FakeKMS. Which one is "native"?
09:36 AM skunkworks: huh - I only had 2 legacy and fakedkms
09:46 AM tjtr33: I have code for my setup (FKMS). build this & try in a console (^altF1) https://pastebin.com/W1a1rFLZ
09:47 AM tjtr33: it will fill the screen and come back after maybe 5 seconds
09:47 AM tjtr33: I just didnt understand 'native' given the choices. and yes maybe 2 choices, i read off the web, not my pi
09:49 AM tjtr33: the code just shows using /dev/fb0 and some drawing primitives, no gui
09:50 AM Javabean: lol https://twitter.com/hcphtx/status/1240285167874445318
09:52 AM tjtr33: theres a few apps that run on the framebuffer directly, fbi(show pictures), fbff(video no sound ), fbgrab ( screenshot)
09:53 AM tjtr33: and the code for those apps is useful to study
09:56 AM tjtr33: oh i had to hack fbff with a usleep delay to slow it way down. just 1 line in mainloop(), and invoke it with "-a -" to stop it trying to use /dev/dsp ( ancient code ;-)
09:57 AM tjtr33: skunkworks, the gentoo image for rpi that CaptHindsight talked about has 3 options, KMS FKMS and framebuffer! I have not opened that scary door yet.
09:58 AM tjtr33: skunkworks, but both full desktop and terminal images booted fine on rpi4
11:12 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: was frustrating trying to use Raspian/Debian on the pi since there is so much conflicting info, yes is no, on is off, dyslexics should really have someone check their posts
11:22 AM Javabean: why, do you ralely hvae tlrboue radieng tihs knid of egnilsh?
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: it's more the yes/no, up/down, on/off, do this/don't do this flipping
11:25 AM Javabean: ah, so normal forum fun
11:29 AM Javabean: lovely, a live stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSbVZT--lzk
11:49 AM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: more issues https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wxekgx/hospitals-need-to-repair-ventilators-manufacturers-are-making-that-impossible
11:54 AM Javabean: well, shit
11:57 AM gregcnc: 5.7 earthquake in slat lake city
01:03 PM tjtr33: goodnite from me ttul8r
03:37 PM unterhaus_: skunkworks, is there a part two of the estop on youtube?
03:38 PM skunkworks: unterhaus_: not yet. Soon. Been making video.
03:39 PM unterhaus_: okey, thanks
03:44 PM skunkworks: wow - so far so good... https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/non-circular-boring-nerd-fun-375192/
03:48 PM XXCoder: some comments is little bit umm
03:48 PM XXCoder: but yah
03:52 PM skunkworks: well - if you have ever seen a 'hobby' post on pm...
03:53 PM Jymmm: pcw_home: Hey, you safe over there?
03:53 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: What gave you the idea to make that tooling fo the hex?
03:54 PM XXCoder: skunk i dont normally read at that site heh so dunno on pm
03:54 PM XXCoder: great im coughing so much again. damn pollen
03:54 PM XXCoder: it just ahd to be spring while coronavirus goes sound so I look like i have coronavirus constantly for whole time
03:55 PM XXCoder: *around
03:55 PM skunkworks: Jymmm: make the tooling? it is just an import small boring bar. (that we sharpened)
03:56 PM skunkworks: it isn't very good at all - but showed that the concept works
04:00 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: ah looks like you welded it together
04:01 PM skunkworks: someone did...
04:01 PM skunkworks: it is carbide braized onto the end of a holder
04:02 PM Jymmm: gotcha
05:15 PM Deejay: gn8
05:20 PM veegee: Anyone have any ideas on how to correctly retension a V belt?
05:20 PM veegee: I loosened the 4 mounting bolts on my compressor motor to swap the pulley to a smaller one
05:21 PM veegee: now I have to figure out how to tighten them again while keeping the belt under tension
05:24 PM JT-Shop: 2x4, crow bar etc.]
05:27 PM Jymmm: If it sqeaks, tighten it up more
05:27 PM veegee: Hmm AC motor bases are pretty cheap
05:28 PM veegee: $35 CAD for a 215T frame motor. Those come with adjustment screws for exactly this kind of thing
05:28 PM veegee: I think I'll get one of those
05:29 PM veegee: I'm in the process of dismantling my generator to disconnect the GFCI. Supper annoying
05:29 PM * JT-Shop bets that the Banggood disposable face masks don't keep much out smaller than sawdust
05:47 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: the PM2.5 N95 ones?
05:48 PM Jymmm: JT-Shop: I've been looking at these (not disposable) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33007714164.html
05:52 PM JT-Shop: the problem with aliexpress is it comes from china at least banggood ships from Canada or the US
05:53 PM JT-Shop: looks cool
05:53 PM Jymmm: Neoprine, so it's washable
05:53 PM Jymmm: so nothing from BG comes from china???????
05:55 PM JT-Shop: yea I assume it all comes from china originally but is stocked in the NH
05:55 PM JT-Shop: NA
05:56 PM Jymmm: ah ok
06:03 PM acer_ is now known as _unreal_
06:04 PM _unreal_: Starting to make power cables
06:04 PM _unreal_: for my power system
08:14 PM skunkworks: a square might be a little too much for acceleration...
08:15 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200318_182620.jpg
08:15 PM skunkworks: http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200318_182652.jpg
08:47 PM flyback: veegee,
08:47 PM flyback: why are you disconnecting the gfci
08:47 PM flyback: what the canuck?
08:58 PM Centurion-Dan2 is now known as Centurion_Dan
09:27 PM Crom: Hiya Fish
09:28 PM Crom: I'm watching a Canuckistani driver on Youtube (Trucker Josh VLOGS)
09:29 PM Crom: Tying to get my UC100 working....
09:39 PM skunkworks: uc100? why on earth?
09:42 PM Crom: For my Win10 laptops. Still looking at getting LinuxCNC working with my Raspberry Pi 4 and my Mesa board
09:43 PM veegee: flyback it keeps tripping for no reason
09:44 PM veegee: Likely because I'm using very long cables about 50m in length (half a football field for the dumbfuck football watching americans)
09:45 PM veegee: that must be radiating a few milliamps with the VFD switching at radio frequencies
09:45 PM Javabean: handegg?? sportsball?
09:45 PM veegee: certainly enough to trip the GFCI.
09:45 PM veegee: Also I really don't need a GFCI. People use isolation transformers all the time
09:46 PM veegee: I could just buy an isolation transformer, but cheaper just to bypass the GFCI
09:46 PM veegee: The outlet panel is really not rebuild friendly on this generator
09:56 PM veegee: The long cables are because I'm currently doing all this hobby work in a climate-controlled storage unit. Obviously you're not supposed to, but the employees are nice enough not to care as long as I don't bother anybody. It's perfect because I go there at night after work when it's totally empty. I run the generator outside and run a long cable to the actual unit.
09:57 PM veegee: I'll have to try finding a unit closer to the exit if it becomes available to reduce the amount of wire. But yeah 50m of 10 AWG 4 conductor wire isn't cheap
10:00 PM roycroft: was it really necessary to characterise people in the us as "dumbfuck football watching americans"?
10:01 PM Crom: veegee I bought 60m of 10AWG/4 SJT for like $700 6 years ago
10:01 PM Javabean: especially since some of us know that football isn't sportsball/handegg
10:02 PM veegee: Oh wow, thanks to pricing error at home depot, I got it for less than $10/m
10:02 PM veegee: so less than $500 CAD
10:02 PM veegee: They flipped the prices on the 10/4 with the 10/3 haha
10:02 PM veegee: 10/4 is great for either 3 phase, or parallel conductors for single phase and twice the current
10:03 PM flyback: just be careful veegee
10:03 PM veegee: I really don't care about ground. I treat the system like an isolation transformer
10:03 PM veegee: But the metal casing on everything is grounded
10:03 PM veegee: Most small generators don't even have GFCI. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal
10:04 PM flyback: outside
10:04 PM flyback: rain
10:04 PM flyback: etc
10:04 PM veegee: The generator is isolated though
10:05 PM veegee: it's on rubber tires so there's no direct contact with ground
10:05 PM veegee: Its output is technically floating
10:45 PM unterhaus_: the guy my sister in law lives with just bought a generator. I'm pretty sure he's going to kill someone with it
10:45 PM unterhaus_: not intentionally
10:47 PM Javabean: how do you accidentally leave it running in a closed garage
11:26 PM unterhaus_: I think it might be possible to kill people by leaving it running in an open garage if the conditions are right
11:33 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1aMfaeY-ws