#linuxcnc Logs
Mar 17 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:51 AM Deejay: moin
04:25 AM Tom_L: morning
04:48 AM jthornton: morning
04:51 AM XXCoder: hey jt
05:25 AM XXCoder: jt perfect for gearing down spindle? https://youtu.be/ApqfqiFTO4E
05:56 AM jthornton: might be a bit much
05:58 AM jthornton: interesting animation
06:04 AM jymmmm: good morning from snowing Calif =)
06:11 AM jthornton: morning from rainy Missouri
06:23 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Isn't it you have has golfball sized hail?
06:25 AM jymmmm: Look at that map yesterday, Greenland and Moscow are the two places that havne't been infected. Didn't look at antartica though =)
06:26 AM jthornton: Greenland has one case\
06:37 AM unterhaus_: moscow isn't testing, so it's probably rampant there
06:42 AM jymmmm: jthornton: oh, I didn't notice.
06:43 AM jymmmm: unterhaus_: Interesting, and kinda dumb at the same time
06:52 AM p0g0: I've been looking- there are almost no web references to Russia and covid... I doubt that is because they are being spared.
07:42 AM Elmo40: this is a cool updated map of the virus
07:42 AM Elmo40: https://qurl.org/boV
07:42 AM Elmo40: says Russia has 93
11:16 AM tjtr33: i just came across this machine from russia ( tho I think its a Chinese casting )
11:16 AM tjtr33: https://cnc-tehnologi.ru/seriya-ch/frezerno-gravirovalnyj-stanok-cutter-ch
11:16 AM tjtr33: about 3500% but i cant tell whats included.
11:16 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: how are you?
11:18 AM tjtr33: Hiya Hiya Hiya, fine & sweaty in Chiangmai. How are you?
11:18 AM tjtr33: the csting looks like this https://th.aliexpress.com/item/4000218008981.html?gps-id=detail404&scm=1007.16891.96945.0&scm_id=1007.16891.96945.0&scm-url=1007.16891.96945.0&pvid=ed233d0c-4768-46bc-999c-88cb56e9a6be
11:18 AM CaptHindsight: great, I bet they invented it first :)
11:19 AM tjtr33: You've been working on RTAI yes?
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: the guy down the hall has been
11:19 AM CaptHindsight: keeping it alive
11:19 AM tjtr33: well I want to try it out, tell him thanks.
11:20 AM tjtr33: I've tried getting a framebuffer gui to work for about a week.
11:20 AM CaptHindsight: he put the Intel and nvidia drivers back in the kernel since some couldn't figure out how to use the FB
11:21 AM CaptHindsight: so you can compare what works best for you
11:22 AM tjtr33: I can use it, some.. like play movies and draw on it, but thats a long way from getting Xmotion gui for lcnc to run.
11:22 AM skunkworks: tjtr33: I am almost positve there was a cnczone thread about making those castings..
11:23 AM skunkworks: tjtr33: Hi!
11:23 AM tjtr33: Will using the framebuffer be an advantage to low power things like RPI and BBB?
11:23 AM tjtr33: skunkworks hi, nice stuff on the hex drilling, damn clever
11:24 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: you''ll want to use the GPU hardware accel on the Rpi
11:24 AM tjtr33: i can buy those castings, but shipping from China to Thailand is more than the 700$ casting set.
11:25 AM CaptHindsight: since there is not enough computing power in the CPU for high res software rendering
11:26 AM tjtr33: Cap yes, and I've been looking into that, like trying to find example code or apps that use the GPU. lotsa disinformation out there.
11:27 AM tjtr33: the beginning test is. ^altF1, cat /dev/urandom > /dev/fb0 :-)
11:27 AM tjtr33: past that I've gotten Bresenham lines and circles, but no mouse yet :-(
11:28 AM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: doesn't the Linux image you are using for the Rpi4 use hardware accell?
11:29 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: I've been using Gentoo on the Rpi4 https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi-64bit
11:30 AM skunkworks: tjtr33: this is what I was thinking of https://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/42227-cnc-15.html
11:30 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: on x86 or the Rpi's?
11:30 AM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: I am not sure.. It runs ok.
11:34 AM tjtr33: in raspi-config, users can turn on experimental grafics in advanced options. the exact wording is...
11:35 AM tjtr33: theres 3 drivers for GL GL , GL full KMS, GL fake KMS
11:35 AM tjtr33: i'm using fake KMS for reasons that were clear to me yesterday ( not tonight :-)
11:36 AM tjtr33: skunkworks, thanks thats interesting, but google 'mini 3040; for the Chinese set ( choose images )
11:37 AM tjtr33: captain, I will try that img , thanks
11:37 AM tjtr33: its midnight here so cul8r
11:37 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: it's gentoo so you have to know what you are doing
11:38 AM CaptHindsight: tjtr33: I'd set up an x86 box and cross compile, new x86 hardware build kernels in 1-2 minutes
11:39 AM tjtr33: hahaha like i know what im doing on debian , well im dangerous fer sure (playing with FB and making a mistake means reboot )
11:39 AM tjtr33: bye bye /part
11:39 AM tjtr33: ?
11:39 AM CaptHindsight: the RTAI dev won't touch the Rpi4 with a 20 ft pole after battling with the flakey hardare last summer
11:40 AM tjtr33: hokay but its fine for my old pentium towers
01:16 PM skunkworks: I didn't know there are 3.. I only new of the fake KMS
01:16 PM skunkworks: knew
01:23 PM CaptHindsight: guns and ammo sales are way up, guess were are going to shoot ourselves out of this virus
01:47 PM skunkworks: more than normal? ;)
02:18 PM XXCoder: jymmmm: no hail
02:23 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: preppers?
02:25 PM XXCoder: a bullet for each virus
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: the frightened
02:26 PM XXCoder: frightened preppers also
02:28 PM XXCoder: true preppers already have 100 guns and bullets so they dont need to buy more
02:28 PM XXCoder: *and millions of bullets
02:30 PM Javabean: they could also be helping to empty the shelves, bullets not in their safe are bullets that could be used against them
02:31 PM XXCoder: i still think its funny
02:31 PM Javabean: i didn't disagree
02:31 PM XXCoder: i read book that has coronavirus spreading though world and "liberal" goverment mess it up
02:32 PM XXCoder: well it happened few months later, and guess what, goverment arent liberal
02:32 PM CaptHindsight: nah I think you're supposed to blame the Chinese and then the poor for this
02:32 PM Javabean: https://www.bamapolitics.com/51007/boaz-al-pastor-invites-coronavirus-infected-to-service/
02:33 PM rmu|w: the chinese blame us soldiers competing in wuhan in some fitness event
02:34 PM rmu|w: US soldiers, not us
02:34 PM XXCoder: korea cult too https://thenib.com/how-a-religious-cult-in-korea-spread-covid-19/
02:34 PM Javabean: hard to know, there is info being compiled/released saying that wuhan was having the start of its outbreak in november of last year
02:34 PM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: i meant: people prepping for worlds end (because they think corona is just that)
02:35 PM rmu|w: this question can only be settled if and when the animal reservoir of this virus is found
02:36 PM Rab: Too late, it's been eaten.
02:36 PM Loetmichel: not preppers that do this for yers now
02:36 PM SpeedEvil: rmu|w: see above podcast.
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: Loetmichel: just general run of the mill gun nuts is all
02:36 PM SpeedEvil: It's bats. It is 96% identical to a bat sample from 4 years ago.
02:36 PM SpeedEvil: - with added code from a pangolin - it probably went from bat ->pangolin -> human
02:36 PM CaptHindsight: irrational scared with disposable cash
02:37 PM rmu|w: it has not been found yet. reservoir-virus needs to be nearly identical (99,99%) to the current virus
02:37 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.microbe.tv/twievo/twievo-52/ - viral evolution of covid-19
02:37 PM rmu|w: 96% is like relationship of sars-cov to sars-cov2
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: they found 200 different coronaviruses in bats
02:37 PM rmu|w: according to twiv ;)
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: and they found that some pass directly from bats to humans
02:38 PM rmu|w: SpeedEvil: which podcast? thenib?
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: the word is still out on SARS-COV-2
02:38 PM SpeedEvil: rmu|w: I posted later, I realised I did not actually link it
02:38 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.microbe.tv/twievo/twievo-52/ - viral evolution of covid-19
02:39 PM rmu|w: SpeedEvil: is this some side-kick of "this week in virology?"
02:39 PM SpeedEvil: rmu|w: yes, same host
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: viruses and banjos
02:40 PM rmu|w: yeah. something to listen to tomorrow
02:40 PM SpeedEvil: Also does an evolutionary biology podcast covering everything from butterflies to fancy pigeons
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: http://virological.org/t/the-proximal-origin-of-sars-cov-2/398
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: "it is currently impossible to prove or disprove the other theories of its origin described here, and it is unclear whether future data will help resolve this issue"
02:42 PM SpeedEvil: yes, the above is a hypothesis, you'd need better data.
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: what the article mentions next
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: I propose we place DNA trackers on everyone from now on, just for protection
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: get you coffee cup and razor to do it for us
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: The ACE-2 Receptor - The Doorway to COVID-19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vZDVbqRhyM
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: the theory on how it gets in and why the body reacts the way it does to it
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: well they do know how it gets in
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: response is still being verified
03:01 PM rmu|w: seems this paper has just been published in nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9
03:04 PM CaptHindsight: strong evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is not the product of purposeful manipulation
03:05 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: you call preppers "gun nuts", but if you have a generator, you are a prepper. Everyone has their own objective and concerns. I'm sure that someone out there has undergorund bunkers of every beer in the world =)
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: semantics
03:07 PM Jymmm: Maybe so, but still
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: well science was made uncool, and popular opinions became "facts"....
03:09 PM CaptHindsight: at least church attendance is down
03:10 PM Jymmm: The world is flat, and the moon landing with filmed in a studio in hollyweird =)
03:10 PM Jymmm: was*
03:10 PM XXCoder: Jymmm: yeah moon landing was faked. director was strict on realism so film was at location.
03:11 PM Jymmm: XXCoder: Area51
03:11 PM XXCoder: no, on moon
03:11 PM XXCoder: thats what "at location" means :)
03:12 PM Jymmm: Nope, Area51
03:13 PM miss0r: 'evening
03:13 PM XXCoder: hey
03:15 PM miss0r: Good thing my boss is an asshole, and recognizes that even if I get sick, I can still work alone in the toolshop... :)
03:16 PM miss0r: howsit going in your parts of the world?
03:17 PM XXCoder: i live at worse state to be at heh
03:18 PM XXCoder: my work had one guy kicked out when he was coughing but it ended up not coronavirus
03:18 PM fragalot: 'sup
03:18 PM miss0r: goodevening fragalot
03:18 PM XXCoder: hey
03:18 PM miss0r: XXCoder: Better safe than sorry
03:19 PM XXCoder: yea
03:19 PM miss0r: fragalot: Are you even allowed to use internet in Belgium? ;P
03:19 PM fragalot: miss0r: it's basically the only thing allowed :D
03:19 PM fragalot: even data caps have been lifted for the time being
03:20 PM miss0r: woah.. what a time to be alive...
03:20 PM miss0r: :]
03:20 PM fragalot: :D
03:22 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: thanks, paper was released just today
03:22 PM rmu|w: it's somewhat like a tsunami. the quake happened, the water receded, now we are waiting for the flood
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: it's nice to see the sequencing of RNA and the virus isolation happen so rapidly
03:23 PM CaptHindsight: days/weeks vs years
03:23 PM rmu|w: i wonder how they do it. find the virus at all. not to speak of in that kind of time frame
03:23 PM fragalot: CaptHindsight: because this time, the pharma owners are equally at risk
03:23 PM Jymmm: backpack flame thrower, minutes/hours
03:23 PM rmu|w: those things are TINY
03:24 PM rmu|w: i would try to get some infected tissue under conventional microscope, identify "strange" looking cells about to burst, and prep them for electron microscopy
03:25 PM rmu|w: no idead how it is down in the real world
03:25 PM Jymmm: rmu|w: just as it bursts in your face removing it from the microscaope?
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: https://mra.asm.org/content/9/11/e00169-2
03:26 PM CaptHindsight: Complete Genome Sequence of a 2019 Novel Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) Strain Isolated in Nepal
03:26 PM XXCoder: lol saw picture of shiva goddess of destuction washing all 3 pairs of arms at once and looking bored
03:26 PM rmu|w: CaptHindsight: link doesn't work here?
03:26 PM XXCoder: i bet it takes a while to wash few pairs of hands.
03:27 PM rmu|w: probably incomplete
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: https://mra.asm.org/content/9/11/e00169-20
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: sorry chopped the end off
03:27 PM CaptHindsight: how they isolated it
03:27 PM rmu|w: they identified the genome from a swab
03:27 PM rmu|w: that could be easier
03:28 PM rmu|w: the question is, how do you first isolate the virus and identify it as being corona-type etc..., taking electron microscopy picture etc...
03:29 PM Jymmm: rmu|w: you look for the bottle caps, DUH <rolls eyes>
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: this identified the genome of the virus, there is a Canadian team that actually isolated the physical virus for manufacturing more for testing
03:29 PM rmu|w: identifying genomes could work like: denature your swab, i.e. remove everything not RNA, put it into a PCR machine, replicate 1e9 times, then cut it up and do your magic with electrophoresis and what not
03:30 PM rmu|w: but finding a 100nm "large" wobbly sphere in 1µl of swab fluid seems next to impossible
03:30 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: in this case since the virus is similar to SARS=COV-1 from 2002 it made finding it all easier
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: let me find some papers for you
03:33 PM rmu|w: CaptHindsight: you work in the field? or something related?
03:33 PM CaptHindsight: I make DNA synthesizers and similar
03:33 PM rmu|w: oh. interesting. do those things run on linuxcnc? *g*
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: heh, yes
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: the inkjet versions do
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: oh and the amplifiers as well
03:34 PM rmu|w: for real?
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: make buckets of DNA from tiny amounts
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: yes, but for mostly non medical use
03:35 PM Jymmm: DNA 3D printing?
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
03:35 PM rmu|w: so you inkjet print different DNA fragments? some kind of primer?
03:35 PM CaptHindsight: from scratch
03:36 PM rmu|w: i mean to function as a primer for some analytical method
03:36 PM rmu|w: for your unknown DNA to bind to
03:36 PM CaptHindsight: didn't someone here go to McMaster near Toronto?
03:37 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: Are you making a cnc frankstein?
03:37 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: thats on the search side, sequencing
03:38 PM rmu|w: AFAIU for searching you need known sequences
03:38 PM SpeedEvil: rmu|w: well, yes, but no.
03:38 PM SpeedEvil: It used to be that way.
03:38 PM rmu|w: hehe
03:38 PM SpeedEvil: Your jobs a jok...
03:38 PM skunkworks: it looks suprisingly good.. For how how rent the setup was.. http://electronicsam.com/images/greenmachine/IMG_20200317_152032.jpg
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: yes, you usually know what you are looking for
03:39 PM rmu|w: hehe... my biochemstry at uni was in the early 90ies
03:39 PM pink_vampire: skunkworks: look amazing!
03:39 PM rmu|w: and i did it just for fun
03:39 PM SpeedEvil: more seriously - with todays sequencers, you can take some blood (or sputum), put it through a 200nm filter to get only viruses, and pull out viral sequences of every single thing in it
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: You don't get good contiguous reads always - but you can piece together computationally the whole virome of a sample.
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://courses.lumenlearning.com/microbiology/chapter/isolation-culture-and-identification-of-viruses/
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/immunology-and-microbiology/virus-isolation
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: So, out pops 83 known and 1 unknown viruses, and the unknown happens to be at a masive titer.
03:40 PM SpeedEvil: So you've got a pretty good idea who the culprit is.
03:40 PM rmu|w: but that's cheating. like sieving a continent through some semipermeable membrane to catch all lions...
03:41 PM rmu|w: ok. makes sense.
03:41 PM SpeedEvil: Then you run that sequence against public viral databases, and it comes back '96% identical to this sample of bat coronavirus from Wuhan'
03:41 PM SpeedEvil: And yes, it is a ridiculously powerful technique, which has lead to fun other problems.
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1007/978-1-60327-164-6_1
03:41 PM SpeedEvil: It's trivial to do this on seawater, so you can find easily novel viruses that you have no idea what they infect.
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: Could be algae, or albatroses.
03:42 PM CaptHindsight: Methods for the Isolation of Viruses from Environmental Samples ^^
03:42 PM rmu|w: seawater?? i thought seawater is around 1% virus dna/rna
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: nowhere near that.
03:42 PM SpeedEvil: there is a lot in it.
03:43 PM rmu|w: i'm joking
03:43 PM rmu|w: but billions of particles per ml
03:44 PM SpeedEvil: http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-301/ interesting on marine viruses
03:44 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: what am I looking at?
03:44 PM skunkworks: Jymmm: have you been away? ;)
03:45 PM skunkworks: Jymmm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9tWtEG1Exc
03:45 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: Yeah, I have =)
03:45 PM rmu|w: thanks for the links
03:45 PM CaptHindsight: it's pretty easy to make DNA now and make mods to existing, just don't tell anyone that
03:45 PM skunkworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWLcFdObLvA
03:46 PM SpeedEvil: Working out what the fuck it does is still challenging
03:47 PM rmu|w: i think that will remain like that for the forseeable future
03:47 PM SpeedEvil: ;['\
03:47 PM rmu|w: except there is a breakthrough in quantum computing
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: one of my goals is to make virus mods so they can become sensors for monitoring cellular functions
03:49 PM CaptHindsight: so we can monitor activity inside a cell still in the body
03:50 PM rmu|w: how do you signal to the outside?
03:50 PM * SpeedEvil bets jellyfish are involved.
03:51 PM rmu|w: i assume the virus is just a means to get stuff into the cell?
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
03:51 PM CaptHindsight: and sit and watch
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: they can be triggered to fluoresce
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: but then you still need a sensor to see that
03:52 PM rmu|w: PMTs
03:52 PM CaptHindsight: or you can collect them later
03:52 PM rmu|w: that would be old-school
03:53 PM CaptHindsight: it has to be inert
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: getting in and out of a cell is not a problem
03:54 PM CaptHindsight: anything based on silicon electronics uses too much power
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: has to run on glucose or be so simple that it just gets triggered to change states based on something it monitors
03:56 PM CaptHindsight: like a canary, does it come back
04:07 PM CaptHindsight: you immune system does it all the time, get triggered, sends signals, reacts, all through chemical messages
04:13 PM Jymmm: eScratch-n-Sniff
04:13 PM rmu|w: what are you trying to achieve? some kind of diagnostics?
04:14 PM rmu|w: borg-like assimilation?
04:16 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: diagnostics and research inside living cells
04:19 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: You want nanoprobes, a la Star Trek
04:19 PM CaptHindsight: Jymmm: exactly
04:19 PM Jymmm: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/borg-nano-probes-reviving-the-dead-for-up-to-73-hrs.301186/
04:19 PM rmu|w: and kidney-regeneration-pills
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255782/
04:20 PM CaptHindsight: Quantitative analysis of intracellular communication and signaling errors in signaling networks
04:22 PM rmu|w: what will take a day or two to digest
04:22 PM rmu|w: at least
04:22 PM rmu|w: but given the current curfew, seems i will have some time ;)
04:30 PM Jymmm: skunkworks: very cool =)
04:34 PM CaptHindsight: skunkworks: are you generating the G-codes by hand?
04:37 PM Jymmm: CaptHindsight: I saw soem voodoo magic formula thingy in his gcode
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.nature.com/articles/s12276-019-0299-y
04:38 PM CaptHindsight: Intracellular sensing of viral genomes and viral evasion
04:44 PM CaptHindsight: rmu|w: brute force method of sensing and signalling https://www.enzolifesciences.com/ENZ-51046/mito-id-intracellular-o2-sensor-probe/
04:48 PM CaptHindsight: anyone know the latest on open CAM, looks like seb_kuzminsky is keeping Pycam alive
05:11 PM _unreal_: hello
05:11 PM _unreal_: Have I missed anything exciting
05:11 PM _unreal_: ?
05:11 PM Tom_L: nope
05:11 PM _unreal_: hum
05:17 PM Deejay: gn8
05:20 PM skunkworks: CaptHindsight: mostly...
05:41 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I'm building my serial adapter right now
05:56 PM JT-Shop: hmm what to do with an old version of Bob Crap
06:06 PM _unreal_: now to try and find one of my serial cables
06:07 PM Jymmm: Shop helper is cute... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQgxc3d1T20
06:13 PM p0g0: fwiw, #bioinformatics given the dialog above.
06:41 PM _unreal_: fusion360
06:42 PM _unreal_: ........
06:42 PM _unreal_: help if I type on the right keyboard
06:49 PM jthornton: we jumped to 11 confirmed today
06:52 PM _unreal_: vh?
06:52 PM jthornton: cpvoid 19 in Missouri
06:52 PM jthornton: covid even
06:58 PM p0g0: Ky has had a similar jump. The legislature, old white men, seems likely to stay in session even tho the gov has offered them a chance to restart the session later. They banned the public though. Given how that crowd behaves when they think no one is looking, It might be best that they go home before they all get sick (er?).
06:59 PM _unreal_: right.......
08:35 PM Elmo40: _unreal_, so... you get that new board made up?
08:47 PM _unreal_: yes finished on sunday
08:47 PM _unreal_: I just glued the heat sinks down tonight
08:47 PM _unreal_: got my serial adapter built
08:50 PM _unreal_: few dots high tempt epoxy
08:51 PM _unreal_: just to hold the Pre heat sink to the pcb
10:44 PM _unreal_: quiet tonight
10:44 PM * Javabean shivers, warns room to disinfect
10:44 PM * _unreal_ picks nose and flicks
11:31 PM * t4nk_freenode sits in awe after realising _unreal_ actually has some skills; you go girl, (ds)PIC that nose!
11:31 PM t4nk_freenode: but next time don't flick it at me.