#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 29 2020

12:44 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
01:18 AM Deejay: moin
03:13 AM Tom_L: morning
03:13 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
03:47 AM veegee: When a torque wrench spec is "accurate from 20% to 100% of full scale", for a 20 - 100 ft.lbs torque wrench, does that mean it's accurate from 20-100, or accurate starting at [(100-20)*0.2+20] ft.lbs?
03:49 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
03:49 AM p0g0: I'd read that as saying that 80 ft-lbs is the full scale, 20% of that, 16 ft/lb is where it becomes accurate, so 36-100 ft-lbs is the accurate range-that's just my reading of the sentence, salt required.
03:51 AM Tom_L: from da ninnernet: Tekton's torque wrenches are each calibrated at three points: 20%, 60%, and 100% of their range. Accuracy of +/-4% means that if your fastener should be tightened to a specification of 100 ft. -lb., the torque wrench will click to indicate a proper torque somewhere between 96 and 104 ft. -lb.
03:52 AM veegee: I'm talking about the CDI ones
03:52 AM veegee: Just confused about what "full scale" means
03:52 AM Tom_L: http://www.cditorque.com/education.html
03:54 AM Tom_L: full scale is just that. from the lower to higher reading on the scale
03:59 AM Tom_L: "accurate from 20% to 100% of full scale" ... it's less accurate on the bottom end below 20% of the scale
04:29 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
04:54 AM veegee: p0g0 you mean 20 + 16 because the scale begins at 20 ft.lbs
05:06 AM p0g0: yes
05:12 AM p0g0: The range on the scale is 20:100, an 80 ft-lb delta (difference). They declare that decent accuracy starts 20% into that range, .2*80 is where I get the 16 ft-lbs. They scale from 20, hence the 20+16.
05:12 AM XXCoder: i want to get a decent in/lb and ft/lb
05:12 AM XXCoder: but not sure what brand to buy
05:15 AM p0g0: fwiw, there's a lot of things that impact torque readings, like whether the thing you are torquing is lubricated. I have a series of torque wrenches, they generally agree, so I have some basis to trust them. I stripped a manifold bolt recently out of an aluminum head at 60% rated torque, likely as much from my having well lubricated the stud as from some frailty in the head.
05:15 AM p0g0: So, ymmv regardless of how well your wrench reports.
05:15 AM XXCoder: for me mopre important is repeatability
05:18 AM p0g0: The old-timey needle & bar types and the clicker types are the only ones I know-some strain gauge digital rig is something I've never used. The needle/bar is mechanically bound to repeatability, the deformation of the bar is pretty reliable. The clickers, I am not so sure they are as simple, but I have found them to generally agree with the torsion bar/needle type.
05:19 AM XXCoder: cool
05:19 AM p0g0: I don't know what the proper name for that style of wrench is either- two rods, one points to a scale, the larger one is the wrench handle.
05:20 AM XXCoder: ya known to me
05:20 AM XXCoder: very accurate, those
05:20 AM XXCoder: but i cant read dial in most uses i would use it in :)
05:20 AM p0g0: I have had one of my clicker types fail too, but it flat broke and wouldn't click.
05:22 AM p0g0: I work on heavy equipment some-bulldozer/tractor/etc, as well as smaller stuff. Nothing I work on is tiny tho, so a few ft-lbs either way is rarely of consequence to me.
05:22 AM XXCoder: for me I heavily use em for cnc fixture tightening
05:22 AM XXCoder: most common being 15 ft/lb
05:23 AM XXCoder: fewer 10 ft/lb, and rarely others
05:23 AM p0g0: yeah, that's near the bottom of what I might measure.
05:23 AM XXCoder: highest is 40 ftlb, that part is annoying
05:25 AM p0g0: If you have to add universals, extensions, crows-feet to the deal, I think you will get reported #s that are not as precise or accurate, so I tend to take all the #'s with a bit of skepticism.
05:25 AM p0g0: But a direct socket torque on the wrench is design, and those should be good.
05:26 AM XXCoder: yeah
05:26 AM XXCoder: onen things for sure
05:27 AM XXCoder: im not buying harbor fright one
05:27 AM veegee: p0g0 that's called "beam type"
05:27 AM veegee: not "split beam", that's differente
05:27 AM veegee: XXCoder buy CDI
05:27 AM XXCoder: CDI?
05:27 AM veegee: I bought a range of them that covers all torques
05:27 AM veegee: yes
05:28 AM XXCoder: is that brand name?
05:28 AM veegee: or precision instruments split beam type which are very repeatable
05:28 AM veegee: yes
05:28 AM XXCoder: where that im sure to not buy "cdi" ones?
05:28 AM XXCoder: *can buy
05:28 AM veegee: https://www.amazon.ca/Precision-Instruments-PREC3FR250F-Silver-Torque/dp/B002XMSFIM/
05:28 AM veegee: Amazon for sure has both
05:29 AM p0g0: The split beam, is that an optical one?
05:29 AM veegee: https://www.amazon.ca/CDI-Torque-2503MFRMH-Micrometer-Adjustable/dp/B002LA1EDO
05:29 AM XXCoder: does it beep?
05:29 AM veegee: p0g0 no it makes a click
05:29 AM XXCoder: beepy ones is utterly useless for me
05:29 AM veegee: but not like the regular spring click types
05:29 AM veegee: both of them click
05:29 AM p0g0: The physicist have some Very accurate but utterly impractical methods...
05:30 AM veegee: dial types are extremely accurate
05:30 AM veegee: but you have to watch the dial
05:30 AM p0g0: *physicists
05:30 AM XXCoder: looks cool but dunno if can stanf abusive envorment at work lol
05:30 AM XXCoder: company ones is very thick and strong
05:30 AM veegee: which one?
05:30 AM veegee: the CDI ones are the best you can get
05:31 AM p0g0: That's just a gear driven dial actuated by deformation of the wrench?
05:31 AM veegee: the PI split beam types are also very rugged, never need calibration
05:31 AM XXCoder: is there no hinge type?
05:31 AM XXCoder: hinge does more harm than good
05:31 AM veegee: the split beam ones?
05:31 AM XXCoder: cdi
05:31 AM veegee: I like the flex head actually
05:31 AM p0g0: the dial type
05:32 AM veegee: Most CDI ones aren't flex head
05:32 AM veegee: where are you seeing the flex head?
05:32 AM XXCoder: oh your first link was precision
05:32 AM XXCoder: now looking at cdi
05:32 AM veegee: Yeah
05:33 AM veegee: I really like the flex head actually
05:33 AM XXCoder: 200-1000 ft-lb!
05:33 AM XXCoder: that'd kill parts LOL
05:33 AM XXCoder: 5-75 is good
05:33 AM veegee: Those are for industrial fasteners of course
05:34 AM XXCoder: i have to look up what is usual socket size we use. 1/2 i think
05:34 AM XXCoder: cdi looks good
05:34 AM veegee: I have the 5-75, 20-150 inch lbs, and 20-150
05:34 AM XXCoder: is last one also in lb?
05:34 AM veegee: If I ever need to torque something higher, I'll get the 30-250 ft lbs one, but 20-150 is fine for me
05:34 AM XXCoder: 160 in-lb is odder one i use sometimes
05:35 AM veegee: no last one is in ft lbs, sorry
05:36 AM veegee: I just labelled all of their cases with the accurate range in N•m, ft•lbs, and in•lbs so I can quickly tell which one I need
05:36 AM XXCoder: lol they have 100-750 in lb
05:37 AM veegee: for CDI, download the cataloge on their website
05:37 AM veegee: it lists all specs and models
05:37 AM veegee: The split beam is more repeatable if you care for that
05:37 AM veegee: also holds its calibration forever, just like the old school beam types
05:38 AM XXCoder: cool
05:38 AM veegee: I suspect internally that's what it is, but you get a click feedback. The adjustment is just a thumb wheel, no spring under tension
05:38 AM p0g0: well, forever is a bit unreal, you can bend them.
05:38 AM p0g0: But it'd show on the scale not returning to 0
05:41 AM veegee: The CDI ones come with a calibration certificate and test results. They claim 4% tightening and 6% loosening accuracy, but the test card shows all test results are within 2% accurate
05:42 AM p0g0: Are you confident that use and wear don't make that 2% drift towards 4%?
05:42 AM XXCoder: who ever needs torque measurement on loosening?
05:42 AM veegee: left threaded fasteners
05:42 AM XXCoder: ahh ya thats rare but it does exist. forgot
05:42 AM p0g0: heh, old school buses.
05:42 AM veegee: p0g0 I think that's why the specs state 4%, to take wear into consideration
05:43 AM p0g0: I know a brute that wrung off 3 wheel studs before he sorted out he was turning things the wrong way...
05:43 AM veegee: But I'm a hobby user so age is the only thing that'll stress it, not wear from repeated use
05:43 AM p0g0: And that was a Bluebird school bus, with big wheel studs.
05:44 AM p0g0: He would have benefited from such a wrench
05:44 AM XXCoder: heh we beat torque bars like its rented car at work
05:44 AM XXCoder: not literally but constant use
05:44 AM veegee: I love renting cars for testing stuff on
05:44 AM XXCoder: one part may take one click to 5
05:45 AM XXCoder: and i could run hundreds of its bad day (many fast parts)
05:45 AM XXCoder: and thats one day
05:45 AM veegee: Anyway 6:30am in Toronto and haven't slept yet
05:45 AM veegee: goodnight folks, see y'all in 6 hours
05:45 AM XXCoder: sleep more. nihht
05:45 AM XXCoder: night
05:46 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
05:47 AM p0g0: Gotta wonder what he is testing in that rental...
05:47 AM p0g0: I have read the entire use agreements, he'd best hope he doesn't offend those.
05:48 AM XXCoder: yeah heh
05:48 AM XXCoder: "sure yeah it always had 3 wheels. why?"
05:48 AM p0g0: Parking in a no-parking zone, the car gets hit by some drunk, and oops, you gotta buy that car even if you took out the rental co's insurance.
05:49 AM p0g0: Any legal infraction voids the insurance on most rentals.
06:18 AM Loetmichel: i more and more like german laws. that would be illegal for german insurance companies
06:19 AM XXCoder: thats renter onsurance not normal insurance but yeah
06:19 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
06:19 AM XXCoder: do your country have ADA?
06:19 AM XXCoder: basically laws for disability, requiring some access like captioning
06:19 AM Loetmichel: here an insurance must proof that you acted "grob fahrlässig" (probably "grossly negligent"). parking in a non paring zone is only negligent
06:19 AM XXCoder: video relay, etc
06:19 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: as far as i know: yes
06:21 AM Loetmichel: as german cars HAVE to have insurance anyways our you cant get them registered its moot though because the drunks insurance will have to pay
06:22 AM p0g0: Well, it is likely here that the individual renter's insurance will cover that rental car- but not the insurance that you bought for the rental.
06:22 AM p0g0: And that means the individual renter's insurance rates will go up.
06:24 AM Loetmichel: IIRC its different over here, if the rental company offers you an "extended insurance" they have to obey the same rules as the normal insurance
06:24 AM p0g0: Ah, not here...
06:24 AM Loetmichel: meaning: they can only refuse to pay for parking damage for example if you were grossly negligent, not only negligent
06:24 AM p0g0: insurance is mostly a game of being assured the "house always wins"
06:25 AM Loetmichel: like parking in front of the fibre brigrade exit, not only in a no parking zone
06:25 AM Loetmichel: and even then the fire truck has to damage your car
06:26 AM p0g0: Then we have had crazy stuff, like the Oklahoma City Bomber that rented a Ryder truck to do the bombing... now all such truck rentals have exclusions for such, if you use the truck to bomb someone, the insurance is invalid...
06:26 AM Loetmichel: if an unrelated drunk crashes into your car the fact that you parked in front of the exit wouldnt matter
06:26 AM p0g0: Yeah, here, you'd be buying the rental.
06:27 AM p0g0: It's not obvious to most folks as they can't be bothered to read pages of 6 point type.
06:27 AM Loetmichel: that doesent mean the insurance wouldnt try to refuse it...
06:27 AM Loetmichel: ... but thats what courts are for ;)
06:27 AM p0g0: Lawyers here cost more than cars.
06:28 AM Loetmichel: (and "prozesskostenhilfe" aka. the state pays your lawyer if you cant afford it)
06:28 AM p0g0: not here, the "public defenders", I think, only do criminal law- I may very well be wrong about that tho. I avoid courtrooms until I can't.
06:29 AM Loetmichel: also we have a "rechtsschutz" insurance, that pays for any court related cost, mostly bundled with the ADAC membership (something like AAA in the US)
06:30 AM p0g0: My ignorance remains supreme, I suspect I can buy AAA re-insurance, but I have no clue about the "fine print" exclusions.
06:31 AM Loetmichel: so if you are a member of the ADAC ("allgemeiner deutscher Automobil Club") you get roadside assist, illness retrival via plane from all world AND traffic related court insurance
06:31 AM Loetmichel: all in one package ;)
06:31 AM p0g0: I think all I get from AAA is the roadside stuff and some shopping/travel discounts
06:31 AM p0g0: But then I have never needed to sort that out.
06:32 AM Loetmichel: funny thing is that the ADAC even works in europe/africa. if your car breaks down somewhere in tunesia they WILL get you repaired, or if that isnt possible they will get the car back home and you get a free flight home
06:33 AM p0g0: Heck, there is a bill in my state's legislature to permit off road (uninsured) vehicles on the public highways. You'd think the insurance companies would be very upset by that, it's hard to tell here.
06:33 AM Loetmichel: there is no such thing here
06:34 AM Loetmichel: even farm equipment HAS to have a license plate if it has to drive even across a rural road
06:34 AM p0g0: Tiny, ill-lit slow moving things going maybe half the speed of the regular traffic... what could go wrong with that?
06:34 AM p0g0: Yes, we have that law.
06:34 AM p0g0: It's sane enough, tho largely uninforced.
06:34 AM Loetmichel: actually its funny to see a small "kids quad" that has a cookie platter on the back ;)
06:35 AM Loetmichel: (our license plates are made of aluminium and HUGE)
06:35 AM p0g0: a kid's quad is what I might call an all terrain vehicle, aka ATV?
06:35 AM Loetmichel: a kids ATV
06:35 AM Loetmichel: yes
06:35 AM Loetmichel: sorry
06:36 AM p0g0: Here, the ATV is often driven by some idiot that likely cannot afford insurance and may have had their drivers license revoked...
06:36 AM p0g0: I have a vast reservoir of ill will there, poachers and such...
06:38 AM Loetmichel: https://images.gutefrage.net/media/fragen-antworten/bilder/4343327/0_big.jpg?v=1242448055000 <- those license plates look ridiculous on an ATV. back side has the same
06:39 AM p0g0: Well, not getting killed is good.
06:39 AM p0g0: Ridiculous isn't much a problem in that context, to me anyway.
06:41 AM Loetmichel: what has a license plate to do with getting killed?
06:42 AM p0g0: Big, visible...
06:42 AM Loetmichel: ah
06:42 AM Loetmichel: german atvs have to have the same lighting as a normal car
06:42 AM p0g0: wow
06:43 AM p0g0: here, you are lucky if they have brakes...
06:43 AM Loetmichel: i.e headlights, rear lkights, indicators, the full shebang
06:43 AM Loetmichel: they are basically classified as a "light car"
06:43 AM Loetmichel: depending on engine displacement even as "full car"
06:43 AM p0g0: well, civilization has it's virtues.
06:44 AM p0g0: bbiaw
07:01 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
08:01 AM SpeedEvil: 'heavy quadricycle'
08:02 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
08:03 AM Javabean: speedevil, this? https://www.engadget.com/2020/02/27/citroen-ami/
08:04 AM Javabean: also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74VfCw1FE2s
08:07 AM SpeedEvil: I mean - the category in the EU for quadbikes of non-toy performance is 'heavy quadricycle'
08:41 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
10:00 AM Loetmichel: *cough* Michel to COnrad Electronic (like radioshack) -> BAD idea. just wanted to buy some femal 2.54mm jumper cables for a PC front panel... spend 650 eur on 2 raspi4s, a bunch of periperhials for them, a SH**load of electronic parts bundles, some raster PCBs, some small tools... :(
10:54 AM flyback is now known as phlyback
10:54 AM phlyback is now known as flyback
11:26 AM Elmo40: 650 euro?
11:26 AM Elmo40: that is a lot
11:28 AM gloops: not bad..for a house
11:28 AM Elmo40: a little raspi4 house.
12:15 PM _unreal_: helllo
12:15 PM _unreal_: just finished drawing my cover plate for my X axis
12:16 PM _unreal_: saddly I cant start maching it. my father wants me to take him to the car dealer so he can look at buying a car
12:16 PM _unreal_: arg.
12:16 PM _unreal_: I need to mill an aluminum plate and an acrylic one
12:17 PM _unreal_: aluminum will be an inside plate covering a hole and giving a mount location for half of the all thread to hold the idler pulley
12:18 PM JT-Shop: the Enco just got a new zip code
12:18 PM _unreal_: ?
12:23 PM flyback: https://realterm.sourceforge.io/
12:24 PM unterhaus: JT-Shop, first buyer or second buyer?
12:24 PM unterhaus: realterm is pretty neat. Talking to a eurotherm heater with it to make sure I understand the protocol
12:26 PM flyback: yeah it is
12:27 PM flyback: worth keeping a windows pc around
12:27 PM flyback: just use a old stable laptop
12:27 PM flyback: don't have to switch off linux
12:27 PM flyback: although
12:27 PM flyback: since it runs in ros
12:27 PM flyback: it might be able to vm it
12:27 PM flyback: or use wine with the 3.x branch
12:27 PM flyback: the non ascii modes and scripting are useful for programming complex things etc
12:28 PM jthornton: unterhaus, first buyer, I got two calls after he looked at it
12:28 PM jthornton: no haggle, just paid what I asked
01:33 PM t4nk_freenode: anyone know of a chatroom here to discuss beamers/projectors?
01:43 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: HAve you streamed a drone to your pc?
02:02 PM jymmmm: test2
02:02 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: ping
02:04 PM Deejay: hi jymmmm
02:05 PM jymmmm: Hi Deejay
02:07 PM t4nk_freenode: gnate, Deejay
02:37 PM CaptHindsight: t4nk_freenode: beamers/projectors?
02:38 PM t4nk_freenode: ? is there unclarity?
02:38 PM CaptHindsight: video projectors?
02:39 PM gregcnc: all the CRTs must be scrapped by now
02:39 PM CaptHindsight: ah it's a European term for video projector
02:39 PM t4nk_freenode: ehm.. I thought I'd add 'projectors' for clarity, so it could not be confused with 'beamers', the bmw cars ;)
02:39 PM gregcnc: bimmer
02:39 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
02:40 PM t4nk_freenode: yeh, 'bimmer' got me some bmw sites indeed
02:40 PM gregcnc: my bg800 is still hanging, though I haven't turned it on in years
02:40 PM t4nk_freenode: I thought I'd order an led beamer.. on the cheap
02:40 PM CaptHindsight: been working with projectors for quite some time, never heard of them referred to as a beamer
02:41 PM t4nk_freenode: used to have a decent sanyo beamer, it was nice but it's gone now
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: marketing has hijacked all the proper terms for projectors
02:41 PM t4nk_freenode: really, CaptHindsight? I thought beamer was a general term.. perhaps just in holland then
02:41 PM CaptHindsight: so when I hear LED I still don't know what type it actually is
02:42 PM t4nk_freenode: well, my sanyo was great, until I had to change the bulb for 250euros
02:42 PM CaptHindsight: LED with LCD, LED with DLP, LED laser etc etc
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: yeah that is where they like to get their 300% profit margin
02:43 PM t4nk_freenode: I later hacked a 'top spot' bulb for 30euros, but there was just too little output. (sanyo was a 3lcd type)
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: I use them mostly for resin printers
02:43 PM CaptHindsight: so monochrome with a near UV LED
02:44 PM t4nk_freenode: there are many 'offers' right now, for led projectors.. claiming 50k hours lamp life
02:44 PM t4nk_freenode: that's tempting
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: if the LED is kept cool enough 50K hours is not out of the question
02:45 PM CaptHindsight: cooling is the main thing you can improve in consumer electronics to make them last far longer
02:47 PM CaptHindsight: been working with 4k DLP projectors recently
02:47 PM t4nk_freenode: so now I had ordered a native 1920x1080 led beamer, but got an email that it was out of stock and they offered me to cancel
02:48 PM t4nk_freenode: see... this sanyo of mine was really great, with lens shift, zoom... nice throw etc
02:48 PM t4nk_freenode: and now I don t think I can live withut those features
02:50 PM t4nk_freenode: but of course I don't have the money to buy a decent beamer ;)
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: we used one to project on a .6m screen, it was so bright that when headlights from the driving game were on your eyes would water
02:51 PM t4nk_freenode: hehe
02:51 PM CaptHindsight: same as being in a car with bright light behind you at night
02:52 PM t4nk_freenode: saw some youtubes last night, where they used grey and even black projection screens
02:52 PM t4nk_freenode: seems like a black screen isn't all that bad
02:52 PM t4nk_freenode: lsusb
02:52 PM t4nk_freenode: darnit ;)
02:53 PM t4nk_freenode: (think I just lost my external hd too)
02:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.amazon.com/Projector-Speaker-Support-Entertainment-Compatible/dp/B07WH4JNJ5/ref=asc_df_B07WH4JNJ5/
02:54 PM t4nk_freenode: ouch, that is extremely cheap! .. I paid 330euro's for mine yesterday: https://afinjo.nl/237-afintek-a01-ful-hd-led-android-beamer-1080p-1920x1080-5500-lumens.html
02:55 PM CaptHindsight: I was paying >$2k for similar just a few years ago
02:55 PM Loetmichel: jymmmm: pong
02:55 PM Loetmichel: yes i have
02:56 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: HOW?! wth am I doing wrong?
02:56 PM jymmmm: lol
02:56 PM Loetmichel: but the quality was below gruesome
02:56 PM Loetmichel: because the drone only had a 640*480px cam
02:56 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I just want to use vlc to capture the esxisting stream
02:57 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: this is 720, but cna't be any worse than what I see on the phone itself
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: keep track of the internal temp of the enclosure
02:57 PM Loetmichel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqkEdzhDZjI
02:57 PM CaptHindsight: t4nk_freenode: a fan or 2 will likely extend its life
02:57 PM Loetmichel: mine WAS worse
02:58 PM Loetmichel: the phone thankfully hid the artifacts ;)
02:58 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: I can't even connect to the stream from the drone excet the app (jy ufo)
02:59 PM Loetmichel: cant help you there, on my cheap drone it was just a normal stream that VLC could connect to.
02:59 PM jymmmm: Loetmichel: tcp? rtsp? rtsm?
02:59 PM Loetmichel: it couldnt handle both the video to the phone AND to the PC though
02:59 PM Loetmichel: normal tcp stream
02:59 PM jymmmm: what port?
02:59 PM Loetmichel: cant remember
03:00 PM jymmmm: I've tried 5555 vlc can't connect
03:00 PM jymmmm: and IDK how to scan for it on android
03:00 PM Loetmichel: but there was a link in the phone app you just had to type into a browser or VLC and it worked
03:00 PM jymmmm: ah, hmmm, no dice here in that respect,
03:00 PM t4nk_freenode: yes, CaptHindsight, I'm afraid one of the reasons my sanyo died... was because I never cleaned the dust filter!
03:01 PM jymmmm: I guess I'll just have to setup a wireshark
03:01 PM t4nk_freenode: this projector I ordered yesterday has 3 fans they say, and noisy ones too.. so you could swam them out for better ones
03:15 PM CaptHindsight: big fans vs small fans
03:16 PM CaptHindsight: larger is usually quieter and moves more air
03:17 PM CaptHindsight: I kept a 1st edition PS3 alive for years by just adding fans
03:32 PM CaptHindsight: https://github.com/Heeks/heekscad is active again
03:34 PM CaptHindsight: maybe just fixes
03:35 PM XXCoder: who wanna predict that boeing stock will be hammered and they lose orders again?
03:36 PM XXCoder: starliner was apparently not tested enough before it blew up
03:37 PM XXCoder: not really blew but wouldnt have been good if it docked
03:47 PM t4nk_freenode: well, CaptHindsight, ... I think I'll cancel the 330euro beamer... because if I'm setting myself up for something mediocre, I might as well try to get one for a 'lot' cheaper
03:47 PM t4nk_freenode: the one in your link unfortunately only is 720p
03:48 PM t4nk_freenode: but for such a price.. bleh?
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/i/164002900177 what CAM are they using for these?
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: t4nk_freenode: I saw some similar with 1080 native
03:50 PM CaptHindsight: I'll be back later
03:50 PM t4nk_freenode: ordering at amazon.de is no problem btw, did it before
03:53 PM t4nk_freenode: great god.... one of my external usb disks is really gone now :(
03:56 PM Deejay: gn8
03:56 PM t4nk_freenode: yeh, gnate to you too, chattycat ;)
04:05 PM Loetmichel: soo, got the pi4 running for the guest room. Now i can take the P3 there out and reflash it with octopi for my 3dprinter ;)
04:55 PM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: cheap china ones dont come with cam
05:32 PM CaptHindsight: my question still stands
05:33 PM ve7it: cam???... just the noodle between your ears.... looks fully manual to me
05:33 PM CaptHindsight: crank 1 60 deg CCW, crank 2 10 deg CW .....
05:34 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-AXIS-CNC-MACH3-6040Z-Router-Engraver-Drill-Milling-Machine-USB-1-5KW-Wood-Art/272960633799
05:35 PM CaptHindsight: ve7it: there are a bunch of cheap 4-5 axis routers from China, just wondering what they use for CAM
05:36 PM CaptHindsight: I haven't seen a cheap or Chinese freeware CAM app
05:38 PM ve7it: CaptHindsight, I have not seen anything... anything that shows up seems to be virus infected hacked versions of windows software.
05:51 PM XXCoder: yeah controller software hend to be hacked version of legit ones
06:12 PM CaptHindsight: maybe they just use free 3d CAM and index or maybe the 4th axis is just wrapped around a cylinder
06:14 PM XXCoder: 4th axis likely?
06:14 PM XXCoder: 5 axis one no idea
06:17 PM Elmo40: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX44z-SSL7LzcB4xxgUdHHA
06:17 PM Elmo40: a corexy pcb mill.
06:17 PM Elmo40: kinda cool
07:05 PM jthornton: is that using a drag knife?
07:06 PM _unreal_: HOME finally
07:06 PM _unreal_: OMG....
07:07 PM _unreal_: I got trapped with my father since 2 in the after noon, 8no
07:07 PM _unreal_: now
07:07 PM _unreal_: he decided he wanted to go car shopping
07:07 PM _unreal_: then he decided he wasnt going to leave till he had a car
07:08 PM _unreal_: so 5 hours at the hertz dealer ship
07:08 PM infornography: he buy one?
07:09 PM infornography: or rent one?
07:11 PM _unreal_: buy
07:14 PM Javabean: https://twitter.com/jillreports/status/1233870486670495745
07:18 PM infornography: what is drag knife jthornton?
07:19 PM Javabean: a drag knife is like an exacto knife on a rotating head being moved in x and y
07:20 PM jthornton: it's used for vinyl cutting but I see it has a spindle
07:21 PM infornography: huh
07:22 PM jthornton: it = the Ant
07:35 PM veegee: p0g0 testing different oils, fuels, etc. I can pump it back out and no one ever know
07:35 PM veegee: Going to full throttle in -15ºC from a cold start
07:36 PM veegee: lots of wear on the engine. Rental agreement never said anything about that
07:36 PM veegee: Testing how much torque I can put on a lug nut before something happens. A little super glue and they won't find out until the next service
07:38 PM rue_mohr: has anyone ever gotten into inter-axis drive latency with cnc machines?
07:38 PM rue_mohr: steppers or servos
07:39 PM Javabean: gear reduction? direct drive? i too would be interested
07:39 PM CaptHindsight: the mismatch in latency between drives?
07:39 PM rue_mohr: yera
07:39 PM rue_mohr: be it steppers or not
07:40 PM rue_mohr: steppers even have a bit of error depending on the torque
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: not it a properly designed, assembled and tuned system
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: it/in
07:40 PM rue_mohr: not sure many people using steppers use encoders with them
07:40 PM CaptHindsight: some do
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: new servos are Step and Dor vs analog +-5
07:41 PM CaptHindsight: Dor/Dir
07:41 PM rue_mohr: the toqrue will cause some error, but I'm designing up a servo for mine, and I'm trying to come up with a bar for performance
07:41 PM rue_mohr: not sure how long I have to finish my "step"
07:41 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: error less than 1 microstep
07:42 PM rue_mohr: maybe error would only come out at really insane speeds
07:42 PM rue_mohr: it has to be less than 1 step, or the mtoors slipped
07:42 PM rue_mohr: people trust microsteps way too much
07:42 PM CaptHindsight: if you are losing whole micro/steps then you're doing something wrong or out side the design envelope of the machine
07:43 PM CaptHindsight: properly design vs asking in #reprap :)
07:43 PM rue_mohr: well, how about this, what kinda full step rates are seen on motors?
07:43 PM unterhaus_: I saw an issue with clearpath servos where the cnc had higher accel rates than the motor would take
07:43 PM rue_mohr: I'm building a 48"x96" router
07:43 PM unterhaus_: they thought it was a vibration issue
07:44 PM rue_mohr: heh
07:44 PM unterhaus_: which was reasonable, because they were moving really fast
07:51 PM CaptHindsight: rue_mohr: how fast do you want it to go?
07:53 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifBPgVDvvK0 1-2m/sec?
07:53 PM rue_mohr: abs peak yea
07:53 PM rue_mohr: but that would be jogging
07:54 PM rue_mohr: hmm, based on the other cnc.... 600mm/min is probably a fast enough cut speed
07:55 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/J-ExIMOruik?t=26 rack and pinion
07:55 PM rue_mohr: 0.01m/s
07:55 PM rue_mohr: no, what I need to know is performance to build my servo drives to
07:56 PM rue_mohr: I'm building my own gecko dc drives, I'm not buying them from gecko
07:56 PM CaptHindsight: will you be using rack and pinion?
07:56 PM rue_mohr: and I'm even buying a knockoff, I'm using an arduio and old tv capacitors to build my own motor drivers and servo loops for step/dir with my own dc motors
07:56 PM rue_mohr: I might use rack and pinion, but probably drive belts
07:56 PM CaptHindsight: run the numbers, there are online calculators for motor sizing based on accel, loads, direction of travel etc
07:57 PM rue_mohr: I have 1Hp motors
07:57 PM rue_mohr: I'm only gonna run them at about 600w
07:57 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.orientalmotor.com/technology/motor-sizing-calculations.html
07:58 PM rue_mohr: I'd like to know how long before my loop controller needs to finish a 'step' its been given
07:58 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.orientalmotor.com/motor-sizing/beltActuator-sizing.html#
07:58 PM rue_mohr: all good, I dont even know my carige weight yet
07:59 PM rue_mohr: anyhow, the performance of my servo is what I'm worried about
07:59 PM rue_mohr: as I'm building it
07:59 PM _unreal_: does any one use fusion360?
07:59 PM rue_mohr: not buying it
07:59 PM rue_mohr: I have the impression people just throw in whatever driver they think sounds cool and that nobody really knows things like latency for them
08:02 PM unterhaus_: that's not true, if I understand what you are saying
08:02 PM rue_mohr: :) I'm glad someone does
08:03 PM rue_mohr: I need some numbers to design to
08:03 PM rue_mohr: tho I suppose I can do it backwards
08:03 PM unterhaus_: doesn't oriental motor give a speed?
08:03 PM unterhaus_: for steppers, that is
08:04 PM unterhaus_: I think it might be a little difficult to work from first principles, oversize and then tune
08:04 PM rue_mohr: if I look at the accel/velocity step rates the controller puts out and work my servo to that
08:04 PM rue_mohr: hmm
08:05 PM unterhaus_: I retrofitted my mill, how are you going to do that from first principles?
08:05 PM rue_mohr: I'm having a hard time mentally with the idea that steps will come in with sane/limited accelerations and velocities
08:05 PM rue_mohr: I have a lot of unknowns
08:06 PM unterhaus_: the control has to limit steps to accel/velocity or it isn't going to work
08:06 PM rue_mohr: yea
08:06 PM unterhaus_: I doubt most stepper systems are limited by the driver
08:06 PM rue_mohr: but when I think of a step/dir input, I think it has to take *anything* its given, which is not true
08:07 PM unterhaus_: It will not, so you have to make sure you don't send it something it can't take. Thus accel limits
08:07 PM rue_mohr: any any cut rates are probably going to be slow enough not to worry about
08:08 PM rue_mohr: I think 200mm/min is "damn fast" on my small machine
08:08 PM unterhaus_: are you designing a state-of-the-art system? Or something in the normal range
08:09 PM unterhaus_: did you see the video of the tiny system that they people that re-wrote linuxcnc had? Really fast
08:09 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.5axismaker.com/ Goodenoff for cheese, films and foam
08:11 PM CaptHindsight: Mechanical repeatability XYZ axis: 4.5microns; BC-axis: 0.25 arcmin /0.0041degrees
08:11 PM CaptHindsight: hahahhahaaaahhaaa
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: under no load, +- 1 deg C and at lowest speed
08:15 PM XXCoder: freeman dyson just died
08:15 PM XXCoder: 96
08:15 PM rue_mohr: pretty normal
08:15 PM XXCoder: hes one who invented dyson sphere as concept and all
08:15 PM XXCoder: rue he stayed busy all way to end. he was still working
08:16 PM rue_mohr: no I mean my cnc is pretty normal
08:17 PM XXCoder: oh lol
08:20 PM unterhaus_: I did some work for a company founded by an 84 y.o.
08:20 PM unterhaus_: gotta admit, I sometimes wondered why he didn't just retire
08:21 PM unterhaus_: he must be 90 now, still going
08:21 PM XXCoder: for some people retirement is just a word for death
08:21 PM Tom_L: that's what keeps him alive
08:21 PM unterhaus_: he actually looked really good for 84
08:22 PM unterhaus_: I would agree, but he just had meetings and bossed people around. I think that's a lot like death
08:31 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: that might be his joy in life
08:32 PM CaptHindsight: "I get to boss people around!"
08:34 PM _unreal_: and how did that work for freeman :)
08:34 PM _unreal_: retiermnt :)
08:34 PM _unreal_: FREAKING hell its cold
08:35 PM _unreal_: we dont have heating in the house
08:35 PM _unreal_: being south florida only got AC's
08:35 PM _unreal_: 20F below average right now
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: you might have gotten out cold, we will be +20F above average
08:36 PM CaptHindsight: out/our
08:36 PM XXCoder: i was a college with quite old teacher (never had him directly as teacher) someone told me he said he would die at his desk there
08:36 PM XXCoder: 3 years later (i was in my last year) he did exactly that
08:37 PM CaptHindsight: it would of been sad if he died while driving a bus full of kids home
08:38 PM _unreal_: freaking HELL its cold
08:38 PM _unreal_: I just put on a sweat shirt
08:38 PM XXCoder: was shirt made from ice?
08:38 PM _unreal_: would be great for a camp fire but we are out of wood :(
08:39 PM _unreal_: yes
08:39 PM Javabean: laughing might warm you up a bit https://twitter.com/RudyakMarina/status/1233401515739697152
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: _unreal_: it's 32 F here, and it's what 55F there?
08:39 PM XXCoder: lol
08:40 PM XXCoder: 44f here
08:41 PM CaptHindsight: one foot bump should be enough
08:41 PM XXCoder: 2x = twice as fun
08:42 PM XXCoder: twice the laughs if acciently fall over
08:42 PM _unreal_: its 56F here
08:42 PM _unreal_: last week it was 85
08:42 PM XXCoder: last week it was 40s
08:42 PM _unreal_: 52F here rather
08:43 PM Javabean: 40's?? where are you aussieland? xxcoder?
08:43 PM XXCoder: tacoma, usa
08:43 PM CaptHindsight: was 12F last night
08:43 PM Javabean: oh, you meant 40f... thought you were saying 40c
08:43 PM XXCoder: lol
08:44 PM XXCoder: no, I meant 40s k
08:44 PM XXCoder: ;)
08:44 PM Javabean: ouch, that cold shoulder hurts
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: they use metric for temp :p
08:44 PM XXCoder: nah kidding it was 280s k last week
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: i think that keeping all these non-related units around keeps you on your toes
08:45 PM Javabean: you put way to many Nm into that response, capt
08:50 PM unterhaus_: I prefer Rankine for temperature
08:51 PM unterhaus_: makes everything sound unbelievably hot
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: -10C last night, 20C tomorrow
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: we typically have very short fall and spring
08:52 PM CaptHindsight: ice still melting from the winter plows while it's 25C and sunny
08:52 PM XXCoder: lets see... summer 2 months, fall 10 months, winter 2 months, spring 10 months
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: we had hardly any fall last year, we had snow in October
08:53 PM XXCoder: last year one of decade snows happened
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: yes, you had odd weather as well
08:53 PM XXCoder: this year no lasting snow and already entering early pre-spring
08:53 PM unterhaus_: last few years pennsylvania had ice at the end of April and then very hot
08:58 PM veegee: Wow Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is really pretty
08:58 PM veegee: also progressive which is great, don't see that too often in 'murica
09:06 PM CaptHindsight: the conservatives like to keep them in the kitchen or dancin on poles
09:07 PM XXCoder: they have chant - "in kitchen, barefoot and pregrant"
09:08 PM CaptHindsight: or on Fox news
09:08 PM XXCoder: or eye candy
09:08 PM XXCoder: or eye candy on fox news
09:10 PM veegee: nahhh fox propaganda hosts aren't that pretty. Their internal ugliness overrides any physical qualities they have
09:10 PM veegee: I could never date a conservative/republican
09:11 PM XXCoder: well I did say eye candy, as in external look only
09:12 PM CaptHindsight: if god wanted them equal they would have more upper body strength
09:12 PM XXCoder: i met good and bad on all sides I know of
09:13 PM XXCoder: ratio is what differs.
09:13 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51666728 Teen girl beats boys to 'make history' as state champion
09:26 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
09:27 PM roycroft: i find festival girls more attractive than faux news presenters/reporters
09:27 PM roycroft: festival girls are a lot more fun, too
09:47 PM infornography: wat
09:58 PM pink_vampire: roycroft: ??
10:11 PM roycroft: xxcoder was talking about "eye candy on fox news"
10:12 PM XXCoder: yeah
10:12 PM XXCoder: can read if you want
10:12 PM Javabean: don't read the log, its full of messed up #$@#$@#$@#
10:12 PM roycroft: and i was just commenting that i don't find that lot particularly attractive
10:13 PM roycroft: but i'm an old hippie, not an old faux news fan
10:13 PM roycroft: so i guess it would make sense
10:13 PM Javabean: oh wait, wrong channel... dangnabit xxcoder
10:14 PM XXCoder: dont look at me
10:14 PM Javabean: you were the one pulling up the log
10:15 PM jymmmm: XXCoder: BUSTED
10:15 PM XXCoder: shhhhh
10:34 PM pink_vampire: roycroft: what is "eye candy on fox news"?? any link?
10:34 PM XXCoder: pink_vampire: we was talking about lady that always shows up in fox news
10:34 PM XXCoder: they have replaced her few times across years
10:34 PM XXCoder: but always blond, pretty and adds nothing to discussion
10:35 PM pink_vampire: good point
10:44 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
11:01 PM fjungclaus1 is now known as fjungclaus
11:19 PM roycroft: s/pretty/plasticky/