#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 25 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:04 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
12:52 AM _unreal_: anyone around?
01:19 AM Loetmichel: mornin'. Oh maaan... it slowly gets hillarious. Left the company yesterday: CNC router runs with private parts of the coworker. coming into the company today: Router runs AGAIN with hobby parts of his. I am not opposed to the coworkers using the machines for private stuff but THAT coworker knows no boundarys. And the fact that it stopped when we ran out of mill bits until i ordered new ones
01:19 AM Loetmichel: a couple days back tops it off. So much for "i only use my own mill bits!!" :-(
01:30 AM _unreal_: hum...
01:30 AM _unreal_: morning? hehe 2am here I'm heading to bed
01:30 AM _unreal_: fell asleep in my chair
01:34 AM Loetmichel: <. german... over here its morning
01:36 AM _unreal_: not german over here. and morning not even close ;)
01:41 AM _unreal_: you cowroker sounds like a normal bull shitter ;)
01:42 AM _unreal_: well heading to bed
03:35 AM Loetmichel: gnihihihi. A coworker just put kali linux on a flasdrive and now wants to learn "hacking"... pretty ambitious for a guy that never has used any linux before or even knows any PC internal workings.... but i admire his determination ;)
04:07 AM CaptHindsight: maybe they added graphical hacking tools? :)
04:08 AM Loetmichel: CaptHindsight: he didnt even managed to set the KB to german layout and had to ask me ;)
04:53 AM XXCoder: air-lubucated. https://techxplore.com/news/2020-02-scientists-year-old-theory-mechanics.html
04:54 AM jthornton: morning
04:54 AM XXCoder: hey jt
04:54 AM XXCoder: i just had mini pototes with oilve oil and garlic salt
04:54 AM XXCoder: it was really yummy
04:55 AM jthornton: we make some mini potatoes from time to time dunno what seasoning she puts on it
04:59 AM XXCoder: :)
04:59 AM XXCoder: ever had pest chicken pasta food?
05:02 AM jthornton: not even sure what that is
05:04 AM Tom_L: morning
05:05 AM XXCoder: its not very complex, have chicken breasts baked, boil pasta, mix them into pot with pesto sauce and stuff, mix it up
05:05 AM XXCoder: very good. tell your wife
05:07 AM XXCoder: one of MANY variants https://prettysimplesweet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ChickenCreamyPestoPasta.jpg
05:08 AM jthornton: looks yummy but too many carbs
05:08 AM XXCoder: I need to exercise again lol getting too weak for my own good
05:09 AM XXCoder: i never exercise to lose weight. thats essentally worse way to do it. exercise to get healther, and eat less
05:09 AM jthornton: I'm trying real hard to get down to 170 pounds
05:09 AM XXCoder: im at 310 sadly
05:10 AM XXCoder: fay + thick bones (my watch with 7.9" band just bareky fits my wrist, and it has slots all way to end)
05:10 AM XXCoder: *fat
05:10 AM jthornton: I got up to 250 but didn't like that much
05:11 AM XXCoder: 250 is perfect for me
05:11 AM XXCoder: im 60 pounds over my ideal weight
05:16 AM jthornton: my ideal weight is 152-159
05:17 AM XXCoder: im been at 300 steady for around a decade, started gaining last year
05:18 AM jthornton: hmm just reading how they measure small, medium and large boned person it's by their wrist size
05:20 AM XXCoder: im definitely deep into large
05:20 AM XXCoder: 158-180 is my supposely normal weight
05:20 AM XXCoder: i dont care about that
05:22 AM jthornton: I've not found one that uses bone size which is important
05:42 AM jthornton: https://gnipsel.com/images/vehicles/2002-chevy/engine.jpg
05:42 AM jthornton: https://gnipsel.com/images/vehicles/2002-chevy/throttle%20body.jpg
05:43 AM jthornton: finally got the throttle body off of Rusty so I can replace the knock sensor wiring harness
05:43 AM XXCoder: cleaning and fixing?
05:43 AM XXCoder: nice. annoying how small easily breakable things is under major repair part
05:44 AM jthornton: the round black plugs should have a wire coming out of them, wood rats chewed them off
05:44 AM XXCoder: i bet coating was soy based
05:44 AM XXCoder: common issue with those. i think they remixed it so it dont happen anymore now
05:50 AM jthornton: I don't think it is soy based they eat any kind of wire coating and the copper too
05:52 AM XXCoder: hmm ok
05:52 AM XXCoder: i do remember reading about soy issues that was fun
05:52 AM XXCoder: few cars had that issue
05:53 AM XXCoder: jt so far it seems to me that my laser machine is best used for lines engrave
05:54 AM XXCoder: pictures is weak and it sucks on cutting
05:55 AM XXCoder: this uses 300mW. im doing something wrong. https://www.instructables.com/id/MicroSlice-A-tiny-Arduino-laser-cutter/
06:00 AM CaptHindsight: 300mw 635nm Red Laser Diode
06:00 AM jthornton: maybe it's out of focus
06:00 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: what is your laser?
06:00 AM XXCoder: i focused to a point
06:01 AM XXCoder: oh its 450nm 2w laser diode
06:01 AM XXCoder: blue laser
06:02 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: yours dosen't look as good when used on wood?
06:03 AM XXCoder: well it looks great till I wipe off carbon heh
06:03 AM XXCoder: then its light
06:06 AM CaptHindsight: how are you controlling the laser power?
06:06 AM XXCoder: pwm
06:06 AM XXCoder: s values from 0 to 1000 for full power
06:06 AM CaptHindsight: and is it really a 2W diode?
06:07 AM XXCoder: comparing it seems so.
06:07 AM CaptHindsight: have you put a scope on the PWM while at 1000?
06:07 AM XXCoder: no scope
06:07 AM CaptHindsight: ah
06:07 AM XXCoder: i can clearly see power level and I used manual commands to control power
06:08 AM XXCoder: i really want to learn but my brain seem to refuse to remember suff
06:08 AM XXCoder: which is annoying
06:08 AM CaptHindsight: what is driving the laser? what is controlling the PWM?
06:08 AM XXCoder: grbl, cheap board
06:09 AM XXCoder: (arudino nano)
06:09 AM CaptHindsight: I don't trust it :)
06:09 AM XXCoder: me either, it randomly drew one line!
06:09 AM XXCoder: in middle of cutting attempt
06:09 AM CaptHindsight: I'd have to see it with a scope and really know the diodes part number
06:10 AM XXCoder: will look into that evenually, laser is "stored" for now
06:10 AM XXCoder: you know what height is best for laser? does it matter as long as its focused at correct spot?
06:12 AM XXCoder: from the material
06:16 AM XXCoder: i really need chat with someone with experence with low power laser machines heh
06:16 AM XXCoder: most people im sure has in least 30w
06:17 AM XXCoder: i saw that theres 20w diodes similiar to my 2w ones, but i refuse to run that without enclosure and filtered vent
06:19 AM * Loetmichel just changed the bowden tube on one ender3 3dprinter to an 1.8mm one instead of the original 2mm ID one. printing the same file on both printers... lets see if there is a visible difference in print quality... i like having more than one of the same printers to do comparsions :-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17697&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
06:19 AM XXCoder: 20w is apparently just enough to engrave some metal
06:20 AM XXCoder: not shiny
06:20 AM XXCoder: but its so powerful i doubt my goggles would protect reflections
06:20 AM XXCoder: *against
06:22 AM miss0r2: yay! just woke this 1977 24v ventilator back to life ! :D
06:22 AM miss0r2: That'll be a nice fume exhaust for the 101 land rover :D
06:24 AM miss0r2: well... It might need new bearings in the motor, judging from the intermittened sounds :D
06:27 AM Loetmichel: miss0r2: hihi, i have about 4 proxxon minidrills (like dremel) here at the company that sound "not so good" either. what pisses me off is that it ISNT the shaft ball bearing that fails but the front motor bearing... which is of course only sinter bronce and integral part of the mabuchi 550 sized motor :-(
06:27 AM XXCoder: hmm peoples saying cardboards bad due to air between layers
06:27 AM XXCoder: gonna try solid ones. it was utter failure last time due to burning but now that i adjusted machine to be so much faster, maybe...
06:29 AM miss0r2: Loetmichel: Indeed. This one is with two bronze bearings, aparently
06:29 AM miss0r2: The front one is spherical.. :S I've never seen that before
06:32 AM XXCoder: CaptHindsight: one of things I plan to try is cutting tape then using it on glass with acid
06:37 AM Loetmichel: miss0r2: outside?
06:37 AM Loetmichel: thats to make the shaft self-alinging
06:37 AM Loetmichel: old trick
06:37 AM XXCoder: ohhh https://www.instructables.com/id/Exact-Scale-Images-for-Laser-Engraving/
06:38 AM XXCoder: looks very similiar with my machin
06:38 AM miss0r2: Loetmichel: yeah. i've just never come across that before
06:41 AM enleth: got a surface grinder and a Deckel SO-style D-bit grinder today
06:44 AM XXCoder: love how it includes middle finger graphic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6v3fXQpve0
06:53 AM enleth: XXCoder: FYI I got very nice results cutting corrugated cardboard with a laser, just go fast enough
06:53 AM XXCoder: what power did you use?>
06:54 AM XXCoder: wattage
06:54 AM enleth: XXCoder: if you do it right, the result looks extremely weird - there's no burn marks, but the edges aren't compressed like they would be when cut mechanically, it literally looks as if the missing parts dematerialized
06:55 AM jymmmm: good morning
06:55 AM XXCoder: yeah vaporization point
06:55 AM XXCoder: 2w isnt powerful enough for that I think
06:55 AM enleth: XXCoder: lowest power of the CO2 laser I have here, which I think is below 10W
06:55 AM XXCoder: best i did so far its barely singed but deeper cuts dont work
06:56 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Focus the laser 50% into the cardboard
06:56 AM enleth: 9.6W if the adjustment is linear - the lowest it will fire at is 12% and it's an 80W tube
06:56 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: it's the glue you are dealing with now.
06:56 AM enleth: at 30-40mm/s IIRC
06:56 AM miss0r2: alright. A quick clean, new spring washer & a quick reamer through the bearings + some new lube and the motor is spinning like new :)
06:56 AM XXCoder: hmm ok will try that. though not sure how to figure if halfway down
06:57 AM XXCoder: enl nice though if I get more powerful laser, it wont be co2
06:57 AM XXCoder: there is 20w diodes
06:57 AM enleth: XXCoder: the one here was a small shitty 40W "K40" laser from AliExpress
06:57 AM enleth: we've since replaced almost everything in it
06:57 AM miss0r2: lol
06:58 AM XXCoder: one of things I wanna try is powdercoat metal then laser fuse design on it
06:58 AM miss0r2: any of the cheap ones worth buying at all?
06:58 AM XXCoder: lol i know shit about repairing stuff so its not for me
06:58 AM enleth: miss0r2: if you don't mind buying a kit, just buy the cheapest CO2 laser there is
06:58 AM XXCoder: mis dunno its fun but i havent really succeed on it so far
06:58 AM miss0r2: heh
06:58 AM enleth: miss0r2: then expunge all wiring and re-do it because it's garbage
06:58 AM miss0r2: sounds doable so far
06:59 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: try engraving annodized aluminum
06:59 AM enleth: miss0r2: but the cartesian robots are decent enough
06:59 AM XXCoder: jy 2w is very low power doubt it can touch metal
06:59 AM enleth: miss0r2: basically the only parts of our laser that are still original as bought are the sheet metal enclosure and the X-Y stage
06:59 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: It will never touch the metal, it'll bleach the coloring
06:59 AM miss0r2: enleth: lol that is realy something :D
07:00 AM XXCoder: ehh lack of enclosure is bit of issue
07:00 AM enleth: miss0r2: because those are the only ones that didn't need fixing, replacing or modifying at any point
07:00 AM Loetmichel: XXCoder: weakling! ;
07:00 AM Loetmichel: :-)
07:00 AM XXCoder: lol
07:00 AM enleth: miss0r2: still, we did use it for a couple months as-is and it did work, cut 3mm plywood and acrylic just fine
07:00 AM miss0r2: enleth: Impressive. how long has this been going on for? (time from new to final product)
07:00 AM enleth: 4mm if going slower
07:01 AM enleth: I think we got it in 2015 or so
07:01 AM miss0r2: wow. I mean; the original product must realy have been crappy then
07:01 AM CaptHindsight: XXCoder: that is how 3d laser printers work, selective melting of powdercoat on non-planar surfaces
07:01 AM XXCoder: cool though im thinking just flat surface
07:02 AM enleth: miss0r2: it was a tiny 40W tube powered by a tiny 40W supply and cooled by a stupid aquarium pump
07:02 AM XXCoder: theres rotatary upgrades
07:02 AM CaptHindsight: even easier
07:02 AM enleth: miss0r2: right now, it's an 80W tube cooled by a chiller unit from an airport X-ray machine
07:03 AM miss0r2: enleth: Hehe I think I better not get one. I mean; I would probably upgrade it to a point where it can cut sheet steel... and at that point I will have spend more doing so than I could've have bought a proper unit for :)
07:03 AM enleth: you need at least 250W for a CO2 laser to be of any use in sheet metal
07:03 AM XXCoder: enleth: interesting enough my machine can do 10000 mm/m 1000 mm/s^2
07:04 AM XXCoder: but it loses a step once a while. 6000 seems to never lose any step
07:04 AM enleth: miss0r2: any lower than that is basically useless for reflective surfaces
07:04 AM miss0r2: hmm.. I find the idea aproachable :D
07:04 AM XXCoder: laser cutting metal sounds fun!
07:04 AM enleth: miss0r2: at that point, you might be better off looking for an old industrial unit to rebuild
07:04 AM enleth: high power laser tubes are actually serviceable
07:04 AM miss0r2: yeah well.. I like the idea of a small enclosure though
07:05 AM miss0r2: I don't want a unit that can handle full sheets (Where on earth would I put it)
07:05 AM enleth: not so much with the small chinese ones
07:05 AM enleth: sealed glass, when it's gone it's gone
07:05 AM SpeedEvil: miss0r2: wall mount is a neat option
07:06 AM miss0r2: SpeedEvil: Indeed.. But I haven't got that amount of free wall left.
07:06 AM miss0r2: ITS CROWDED IN HERE
07:06 AM enleth: miss0r2: also, high power tubes are *long*
07:06 AM SpeedEvil: :)
07:06 AM miss0r2: hmm.. How long ? :)
07:06 AM SpeedEvil: enleth: or wide
07:06 AM enleth: the 80W is 120cm long, 80mm diameter
07:06 AM SpeedEvil: enleth: TEAFTW
07:06 AM miss0r2: okay.. I'll stick with what I've got so far then :)
07:07 AM miss0r2: Its okay though, I can allways sandwich the thin sheet between two sacrificial plates and mill it for the time being
07:07 AM enleth: SpeedEvil: well, the chinese ones are long
07:08 AM enleth: although all rebuildable ones I've seen are rather long and slender as well
07:09 AM SpeedEvil: enleth: TEA uses transverse electrical arc or something - multiple arcs across a folded beam path for extraordinary power
07:10 AM enleth: neat
07:12 AM enleth: BTW, http://repairfaq.cis.upenn.edu/sam/laserfaq.htm#faqtoc
07:13 AM enleth: that site predates cheap chinese lasers
07:13 AM enleth: but it's still a lot of useful information
07:25 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: quitter
07:25 AM XXCoder: more like wheck, client crashed
07:26 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: Yeah, we believe you
07:26 AM jymmmm: ;)
07:26 AM XXCoder: your belief does not affect me heh
07:26 AM XXCoder: nor of others lol
07:26 AM jymmmm: still a quitter... XXCoder left the room (quit:
07:27 AM jymmmm: the logs never lie
07:27 AM XXCoder: lol dont care
07:27 AM jymmmm: do too
07:29 AM jymmmm: XXCoder: to focus half way into the cardboard, just use stacks of paper, then half it and focus
07:29 AM XXCoder: cool :) will try it next weekend
07:30 AM jymmmm: why next weeked?
07:30 AM XXCoder: my machine is put away for now
07:31 AM jymmmm: why's that? broken?
07:31 AM XXCoder: nope, just need space when not running laser during week
07:31 AM XXCoder: it blocks my closet door when its set to run
07:32 AM jymmmm: gotcha
08:48 AM Elmo40: hang from ceiling
09:09 AM unterhaus: I have a hoffman enclosure 4 4x 12 13, back panels are $40
09:10 AM unterhaus: I knew I wasn't going to like the price, but that's more than I was expecting
09:44 AM Rab: unterhaus, that's a lot of money for a piece of metal. Tried eBay?
09:50 AM Rab: Not cheap there either, but I guess it depends on the specific panel. This one's $20, but not sure if it's compatible: https://www.ebay.com/itm/292816552314
09:52 AM unterhaus: thanks for looking. I have gotten really lazy. I have an appropriate sheet of aluminum off of a scrapped analog pen plotter
09:53 AM unterhaus: I am missing the metal cutting bandsaw in the machine shop at work. The whole shop is gone
09:53 AM Rab: Sounds like a winner! But you'll be sorry next time you want to graph a signal on unobtainable roll paper.
09:54 AM unterhaus: it has been in pieces for years
09:55 AM Rab: I still have a stash of plotter pieces.
09:55 AM unterhaus: I should really thin out my collection of small dc motors
09:56 AM Rab: I sold a huge, complete plotter in beautiful condition last year at a hamfest. Maybe for $3, or maybe $1 to get them to cart it away.
09:56 AM unterhaus: ya, I have a couple of working hp pen plotters in my scrap pile
09:57 AM Rab: The big ones, or the little ones with the grit roller?
09:57 AM unterhaus: I was just looking at finishing the destruction of one, I used it to show my son back emf
09:57 AM unterhaus: 20" maybe?
10:04 AM Loetmichel: ouch.... coworker just finished a 40" TV made into a shielded monitor... tried it: REALLY bad moire... and it dosent even disappear unil you lift the shielding glass with 1/100mm copper mesh inside 70mm off the display :-( -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17690&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
10:56 AM jthornton: making progress with Rusty, intake manifold is in position ready to be torqued down
01:34 PM Deejay: hi
01:49 PM jymmmm: hi Deejay
01:49 PM Deejay: :)
03:31 PM Deejay: gn8
04:01 PM gregcnc: everybody must be watching their 401k
04:02 PM * Tom_L is checking for snowflakes
04:36 PM CaptHindsight: gregcnc: interesting to see how (un)stable China is
05:02 PM Loetmichel: *HA!* Finally got the 5 year oooold 3d-printer-kit to run. Only took a new extruder and switching the Z axis spindles from M5 to TR8. :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMxpmnuZHAg
05:11 PM _unreal_: m5 to tr8?
05:12 PM _unreal_: Loetmichel, is that a carbon fiber plate?
05:15 PM Loetmichel: result is fairly decent: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=17700&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
05:15 PM Loetmichel: _unreal_: yes
06:29 PM * jthornton wonders if it's normal to smell something funny after putting new intake gaskets on a 5.3L chevy motor
06:32 PM infornography: That is the smell of success
06:32 PM jthornton: well it runs fine...
06:32 PM infornography: or maybe the stench of failure ...
07:45 PM ve7it: _unreal_, whats up?
08:26 PM _unreal_: not to much
08:27 PM _unreal_: took my daughter to the tennis courts 1min from the house earrlyer
08:27 PM _unreal_: made din, just played a few rounds of air hockey
08:27 PM _unreal_: nice having a full size air hockey table
08:28 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I just found a deice I built that has an 8mhz xtal on it
08:28 PM _unreal_: I'm going to pull that and put it on this programmer
08:28 PM _unreal_: and solder the last 2 items then I can "" pray "" test the programmer and see if I can get the DSpic programmed FINALLY
08:28 PM Tom_L: i did a pic programmer once but can't find a pic of it
08:28 PM _unreal_: Idont care what code I write if it even works
08:29 PM _unreal_: can you find a photo of it maybe?
08:29 PM Tom_L: no clue where to look now
08:29 PM _unreal_: : )=)
08:29 PM Tom_L: was ages ago
08:29 PM _unreal_: big toothy smile ;)
08:29 PM _unreal_: how many ages?
08:34 PM Tom_L: mfm hdd tech ages?
08:36 PM Tom_L: eagle file called picprogrammer.sch
08:36 PM Tom_L: maybe
08:37 PM Tom_L: probably not.. i never routed that board
08:38 PM unterhaus_: is there a good calculator for stepper motor sizing?
08:39 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Stepper-Motor-Calculator.phtml
08:39 PM Tom_L: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/stepper-motor-calculator/
08:40 PM CaptHindsight: the other part of your equation is in what type of system and what speed and torque is required?
08:41 PM unterhaus_: I'm helping someone and the reviews on the stepper/lead screw combination said it was way overrated on torque, so I'm not sure how to handle that aspect
08:42 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://us.misumi-ec.com/maker/misumi/mech/product/bs/choice/choice06.html
08:42 PM unterhaus_: yeah, I need a worksheet for torque requirements
08:42 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/picprogrammer.jpg
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.linearmotiontips.com/calculate-motor-drive-torque-ball-screws/
08:42 PM Tom_L: don't ask about it because i don't remember
08:42 PM CaptHindsight: hold on for a calculator
08:43 PM unterhaus_: Tom_L, you found a pic
08:43 PM Tom_L: iirc it required 12v but i could be wrong about that too
08:44 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.lintechmotion.com/sizing/Thrust-Force/thrust-inputs.php
08:45 PM Tom_L: the .sch file was dated 2002
08:45 PM Tom_L: fwiw
08:45 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.orientalmotor.com/technology/motor-sizing-calculations.html
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: https://www.orientalmotor.com/motor-sizing/index.html
08:46 PM CaptHindsight: Motor Sizing Tools based on the type of application ^^
08:46 PM unterhaus_: thanks
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: http://www.motionusa.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/rockfordballscrew/How_to_Size_a_Ball_Screw.pdf
08:48 PM CaptHindsight: much overlooked info ^^
08:49 PM Elmo40: dont tell _unreal_ !
08:49 PM Elmo40: he is using threaded rod...
08:49 PM CaptHindsight: often people just guess about size and only consider pitch
08:49 PM Elmo40: i want 1" ball screw for my 3D printer!
08:49 PM Elmo40: MO POWA!!
08:50 PM Elmo40: >_<
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: threaded rod is fine for his application
08:50 PM CaptHindsight: klosenoff & goodenoff
08:51 PM Javabean: but i want my 3dprinter to be positionally accurate to 0.00001mm so i can get nice 0.03mm layers
08:51 PM Javabean: :pp
08:51 PM CaptHindsight: sure, I have a spray for your printer that makes it so
08:52 PM unterhaus_: my application has very little precision required
08:52 PM Tom_L: _unreal_, archive.siliconchip.com.au/cms/gallery/article.html?slideshow=0&a=110501&i=9 looks more complicated than mine
08:52 PM unterhaus_: vacuum chucks were made by a potter
08:52 PM Tom_L: http://archive.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_110501/article.html
08:53 PM Javabean: hmm, turning semi-solid silicon on a potter's wheel sounds like an interesting challeng
08:53 PM CaptHindsight: Javabean: the spray goes onto a cloth you press against your face and take deep breaths :p
08:53 PM unterhaus_: only problem is we are moving small ovens around, 400 Celsius
08:54 PM Javabean: listed as "The World's best pickup line", "does this smell like chloroform to you?"
08:54 PM CaptHindsight: "does this rag smell funny?"
08:55 PM unterhaus_: does chloroform actually work like it does in the movies? Asking for a friend
08:55 PM Tom_L: try it and get back to us
08:55 PM Javabean: hmm, i wonder if my tvoc meter would register chloroform..
08:55 PM unterhaus_: thud
08:55 PM Tom_L: give you one helluva hedache
08:55 PM CaptHindsight: Javabean: does it work on feet?
08:55 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
08:55 PM unterhaus_: we had some gas sensors, really disappointing
08:56 PM Javabean: not sure, but i did just set a "new high score" on mine a moment ago
08:56 PM Tom_L: oh just sniff it and guess what it could be
08:57 PM unterhaus_: it's pretty impressive how easy it is to get a rotary table to go unstable, I never would have thought
08:58 PM unterhaus_: at least if it's a motorized air bearing rotary table
08:58 PM Javabean: unterhaus_:
08:58 PM Javabean: wtf?
08:58 PM Javabean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMh1mYmCb00
09:00 PM CaptHindsight: your an awkword jig!
09:00 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
09:01 PM Javabean: never thought "super glue" would be good enough for that application
09:01 PM unterhaus_: https://youtu.be/azv9_aDfg_E
09:01 PM unterhaus_: that was before I tried to make it go fast
09:02 PM CaptHindsight: youtube without an ad blocker is painful
09:02 PM Javabean: what did you think of clicksprings "out of balance" trick?
09:03 PM unterhaus_: I did a lot of surface grinding using super glue
09:03 PM Javabean: CaptHindsight: try using a "ad blocking" hosts file?
09:03 PM unterhaus_: tricky, but doable
09:04 PM Javabean: that final operation he did was only one part and only superglue
09:04 PM unterhaus_: I did manage to get the scanning to go fast enough that the cap probe holder was the unstable part
09:04 PM CaptHindsight: Javabean: hah, it was terrible
09:05 PM Javabean: have you watched any "off-brand" clickspring youtubers?
09:07 PM unterhaus_: I wouldn't have thought that an interrupted cut using superglue is the best idea. Hope he had a sheild
09:08 PM Javabean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DZc94SBF0g here's a fun "off-brand"
09:08 PM CaptHindsight: nice sharp tool and shallow cuts, no hogging
09:10 PM CaptHindsight: unlikely that the glue came from harbor freight
09:11 PM CaptHindsight: Javabean: that from an old Italian afternoon TV series called "Machining with Leonardo"
09:12 PM * Javabean shrugs, tries to not make a new NEW high score
09:19 PM _unreal_: getting very tired of this BS
09:19 PM _unreal_: does anyone know of a programmer that supports DSPIC's?
09:19 PM _unreal_: this programmer I built for what ever reason isnt working
09:19 PM Tom_L: did you see my posts
09:19 PM _unreal_: not showing up nothing
09:19 PM _unreal_: no
09:19 PM Tom_L: well you asked then left
09:20 PM _unreal_: left?
09:20 PM _unreal_: naa been sitting right here :)
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: the price of basic Mastercam is $8500
09:20 PM _unreal_: just fighting with this PCB I built
09:20 PM CaptHindsight: checked earlier today
09:21 PM Tom_L: not too bad
09:21 PM CaptHindsight: how much is Solidworks?
09:21 PM CaptHindsight: $3-4K?
09:22 PM Tom_L: no idea, mine is at least 25 yrs old
09:22 PM Tom_L: and i gave ~6 iirc back then
09:22 PM Tom_L: it's been passed around at least 3-4 times since then
09:23 PM Tom_L: point control had it when i got it
09:23 PM CaptHindsight: One license of SOLIDWORKS Standard is $3,995
09:23 PM Tom_L: err i meant smartcam
09:23 PM Tom_L: misread what you asked
09:23 PM CaptHindsight: technical support, upgrades, and more for one year, is $1,295.
09:24 PM CaptHindsight: no problem
09:24 PM Tom_L: sounds about right
09:24 PM Tom_L: mastercam seems to be the one to have for most small shops
09:25 PM Tom_L: most of them around here use catia now
09:26 PM unterhaus_: 3-4k would be the base solidworks
09:26 PM Javabean: a "small shop" is expected to pay 8500 for some software?
09:26 PM Javabean: one license at that?
09:27 PM unterhaus_: mastercam really isn't that great for drafting though, right?
09:27 PM unterhaus_: we always took solidworks into it
09:28 PM unterhaus_: I don't know how good the solidworks cam is
09:28 PM Tom_L: doesn't have one
09:29 PM Tom_L: you gotta go 3rd party for that
09:29 PM Tom_L: afik
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: mastercam directly plugs into SW
09:29 PM Tom_L: that's a plus
09:29 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.mastercam.com/solutions/mastercam-for-solidworks/
09:29 PM Tom_L: i don't think solidworks is quite as feature rich as catia coming from the same company
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: Autodesk has a few CAM apps
09:30 PM Tom_L: bleh
09:30 PM CaptHindsight: yes, i believe catia is a step above SW
09:31 PM Tom_L: i remeember a guy using acad with nc polaris for 3d work years back
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: does fusion360 offer CAM?
09:31 PM Tom_L: it has cam
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: any good?
09:31 PM Tom_L: iirc it has a lcnc post
09:31 PM Tom_L: no clue
09:31 PM Tom_L: never got that far with it
09:31 PM Tom_L: it lacks features
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: tried calling them today
09:31 PM CaptHindsight: was on hold for 10 minutes
09:31 PM Tom_L: it's the new kid on the block and has a ways to go
09:32 PM unterhaus_: there is a solidworks cam, this computer has a license for it. Never used it though
09:33 PM unterhaus_: fusion kinda runs out of steam with complex models
09:34 PM unterhaus_: unless you have a really good graphics card, as I understand it. I have a crummy one
09:34 PM unterhaus_: it's weirdly tied into the web too
09:35 PM unterhaus_: I think it's actually a browser app, just cleverly hidden
09:35 PM CaptHindsight: so no work when the internet is down for you
09:35 PM unterhaus_: works offline
09:35 PM unterhaus_: but it interrupts you to let you know
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: "i know you're trying to get work done and all but your connection to Autodesk is down" every 5 minutes?
09:36 PM unterhaus_: the other day it was like that
09:36 PM CaptHindsight: press the cat if you wish to proceed
09:37 PM unterhaus_: it's not as bad as proE checking the damn license every few though
09:37 PM CaptHindsight: flashes cat outline on screen for 0.3 seconds
09:37 PM unterhaus_: and then you miss the cat and draw a line
09:37 PM CaptHindsight: why is my model full of odd lines and marks?
09:38 PM unterhaus_: it's actually more annoying if you aren't looking at it when it happens
09:38 PM unterhaus_: the icon on the taskbar flashes
09:39 PM unterhaus_: they were selling a one year subscription for $350 or something like that
09:39 PM unterhaus_: that was a sale though, regular price is $500
09:39 PM unterhaus_: it would be worth it if I was making money with it
09:40 PM Tom_L: CaptHindsight, unfortunately it seems that all cad cam is going cloud based
09:40 PM Tom_L: i know catia 6 is
09:40 PM Tom_L: called something else but it's 6
09:40 PM Javabean: not just cad and cam though, but yeah
09:40 PM unterhaus_: I can't believe companies put their proprietary data on someone else's cloud
09:41 PM unterhaus_: without understanding their security, which is probably just marketing
09:41 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, much more difficult to crack that way and to keep tabs on you as a resource
09:41 PM CaptHindsight: yeah, no thanks on the cloud service
09:42 PM Javabean: i don't mind using "cloud services".... but its my cloud, running in my house
09:42 PM Tom_L: you'll be dealing with outdated software then
09:42 PM unterhaus_: good luck to autocad to sell my 3d models though
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: privacy is for criminals
09:42 PM Javabean: Tom_L: don't forget, adobe is going after people for using ancient versions of their software
09:42 PM unterhaus_: what do you have to hide? Hmmm?
09:42 PM CaptHindsight: you are not important enough to get any privacy
09:42 PM Tom_L: Javabean, i'm aware of that
09:43 PM Tom_L: they disabled one of mine
09:43 PM Javabean: you weren't one of the lucky one's that got a letter?
09:43 PM Tom_L: not that i recall
09:43 PM Tom_L: maybe an email but i don't remember
09:44 PM unterhaus_: didn't they used to sell perpetual licenses?
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: so you boaugh and older version years ago and now you have to stop using it?
09:44 PM Tom_L: yes
09:44 PM Javabean: yes
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: ouch
09:44 PM Tom_L: and it wasn't years ago
09:44 PM Tom_L: fairly recent within maybe 2-3 yrs
09:44 PM Tom_L: bastards
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: use it or loose it
09:44 PM CaptHindsight: wow
09:44 PM unterhaus_: are they being sued?
09:44 PM Tom_L: i could go offline and re'install it
09:45 PM Tom_L: unterhaus_, probably
09:45 PM CaptHindsight: or use it and still lose it after the 1st of jan
09:45 PM Javabean: you don't "own" the software, you are only leasing it... when they decide your "lease" is up, its not legal anymore
09:45 PM Javabean: and yes, adobe did sue a bunch of people over using those "old" softwares
09:45 PM Tom_L: a lease is an agreement between TWO parties...
09:45 PM Tom_L: not just one
09:46 PM Javabean: hence the "" around lease
09:46 PM CaptHindsight: click through?
09:46 PM Javabean: click through?
09:47 PM CaptHindsight: by being able to read this you have already agreed to this license :)
09:47 PM Tom_L: guess we'll have to start hacking cloud servers now instead of hardware dongles
09:47 PM Tom_L: :D
09:47 PM unterhaus_: I was never good enough at the things they sell software to do to need anything more than gimp and inkscape
09:48 PM Tom_L: i was using lightroom and photoshop
09:48 PM Javabean: ah, well in EULA's and TOS's and related... there is a part where you are explicitly told "subject to change without notice"... so its pretty much whatever they want
09:48 PM unterhaus_: too bad the free cad isn't a little more useful
09:48 PM CaptHindsight: well see you're supposed to save up a million dollars or more to start your business so you can pay all these license fees
09:49 PM Javabean: don't forget PATENTS!!!!!
09:49 PM CaptHindsight: only the Chinese can make bootleg copies and make parts using it
09:49 PM Javabean: no telling what patents you will violate if you ever make anything to sell
09:49 PM unterhaus_: yeah, much better to make things in China where U.S. stupid patent system is not in place
09:50 PM Javabean: amen
09:50 PM CaptHindsight: no, you give the plans to the Chinese for them to make and sell to you
09:50 PM unterhaus_: my favorite example of how bad the patent system is -- 3d printers
09:50 PM unterhaus_: they were basically dead until the patents expired, then took off
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: well much of that was hype
09:51 PM Javabean: don't forget the "private space race"... had to wait for those to expire before companies could start their own space race
09:51 PM unterhaus_: what patents stopped people from making rockets?
09:51 PM CaptHindsight: it allowed con men to jump into a previously controlled through patents market
09:51 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
09:52 PM Javabean: was a "big conversational piece" back in the day, can't remember what stupid shit it was right now tho
09:52 PM unterhaus_: I always made fun of researchers in additive manufacturing, now I am one
09:53 PM unterhaus_: something can be important and also hyped by con men
09:53 PM unterhaus_: when we're all quarantined with the coronavirus, we are going to wish we could 3d print some toilet paper
09:53 PM Javabean: it was something important for surviving going into space... can't remember what it was tho
09:53 PM Tom_L: tang?
09:53 PM CaptHindsight: unterhaus_: speak for yourself
09:53 PM Tom_L: :)
09:54 PM CaptHindsight: who needs toilet paper if you are quarantined?
09:54 PM unterhaus_: toilet paper was all I could think of
09:54 PM unterhaus_: the con men have always predicted we wouldn't need to buy anything, just 3d print it in our living room
09:55 PM unterhaus_: alongside the cnc lathe and the machining center for finish ops
09:56 PM unterhaus_: friends come over, what's that smell? Oh, we're trying a new coolant
09:56 PM CaptHindsight: nah, when the knobs fall off your garbage burning stove you'll just make due with some found or stolen pliers
09:57 PM unterhaus_: that's it, 3d print some vice grips
09:57 PM unterhaus_: killer app
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: peasants don't need to buy or print stuff
09:57 PM CaptHindsight: just fear and serve the crown or die
09:58 PM CaptHindsight: if god wanted you to buy stuff he would have given you wealth
10:03 PM _unreal_: kind of confused
10:03 PM _unreal_: http://usbpicprog.org/?page_id=193
10:03 PM t4nk_freenode: kind of? ;)
10:03 PM _unreal_: in the firmware download, there is firmware.0.9.hex and boot1.hex
10:04 PM t4nk_freenode: omg! tell me it aint so!
10:04 PM _unreal_: the firmware is a large 100k file, the boot.hex file is TINY what is the boot hex file?
10:04 PM Tom_L: maybe a bootloader
10:04 PM t4nk_freenode: to keep them warm during these days where you might, just like me, step outside and find it snowing
10:05 PM Tom_L: couple jmp instructions or such
10:05 PM unterhaus_: If I were rich, I would have latex inflatable trousers
10:05 PM Tom_L: that's it?
10:05 PM t4nk_freenode: hehe
10:06 PM unterhaus_: https://www.dezeen.com/2020/02/24/harikrishnan-lcf-inflatable-latex-fashion/
10:06 PM _unreal_: ! its alive
10:06 PM t4nk_freenode: if I were rich... I couldn't even speak about the filthyfilthy stuff I would do ;)
10:06 PM _unreal_: !!! ITS ALIVE
10:06 PM Tom_L: so you said
10:06 PM Javabean: funny enough, while that conversation about mastercam and solidworks was going on here... someone in a different chan randomly posted this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_LvRPX0rGY
10:08 PM unterhaus_: I wish I was rich enough to have a death squad, that's really rich
10:09 PM unterhaus_: I know someone who thinks he's rich. Not even close
10:09 PM Tom_L: i know a few that _are_
10:10 PM unterhaus_: I went to someone's ski lodge. Guy owned Humana hospitals. He wasn't there though
10:10 PM unterhaus_: think he later went to jail
10:11 PM unterhaus_: the basement suite had a bathroom that was longer than our house, that wasn't the master suite
10:11 PM t4nk_freenode: heh, having my own private death squad seems nice
10:11 PM t4nk_freenode: euh
10:11 PM t4nk_freenode: them listening to Me that is ;)
10:11 PM unterhaus_: t4nk_freenode, you and I are on a list now
10:11 PM t4nk_freenode: ahhh whatever.. cum get me if they want.
10:12 PM t4nk_freenode: well, if I can be frank... if I owned a death squad right now
10:12 PM t4nk_freenode: ...
10:12 PM unterhaus_: I think that's a pretty good definition of being really rich
10:12 PM Javabean: unterhaus, welcome to the club... i can't really think of a list i am not on... that doesn't involve ACTUALLY having commited a crime
10:12 PM t4nk_freenode: the number of assassinations would be quite high
10:13 PM unterhaus_: you gotta be subtle about the number of assassinations. not that I have thought this through or anything
10:15 PM Javabean: good advice, though you gotta be subtle about most things.... work through a problem/issue, don't just bash your head against it
10:16 PM unterhaus_: another problem is to become connected enough with the power structure that they don't blame you when they figure out what you are doing
10:16 PM unterhaus_: blame == arrest
10:16 PM t4nk_freenode: or blame any-and everyone-thing for your own inaction
10:17 PM unterhaus_: sheesh, unter, knock that crap off
10:18 PM t4nk_freenode: no man.. they should know who's behind it.. 'fear is a good motivator'
10:18 PM Javabean: unterhaus_: beware of r/writingprompts
10:30 PM _unreal_: its kind of alive
10:30 PM _unreal_: well time to go bring my toys in from the car
10:30 PM _unreal_: got some good free stuff
10:30 PM _unreal_: free computer, for starters
10:30 PM _unreal_: no idea if it works ETC....
10:30 PM _unreal_: and a few other items
10:32 PM Javabean: does the previous "owner" know that you have it?
10:40 PM ve7it: _unreal_, found the old mplab distribution (v8.33) and found out it works fine under wine. Was able to recompile project. Pickit2 is not working under wine, but I did get it to work with linux program "pk2cmd -P DSPIC30F4012 -F dspic-servo.hex -M"
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: if you had a cure for stupid would you use it on your self? no asking anyone directly
10:40 PM CaptHindsight: no/not
10:42 PM Tom_L: stupid is self destructive
10:43 PM Javabean: not even death could cure stupid, what kind of "mad science" are you doing?
10:48 PM ziper: they have a cnc at the workshop of a non-profit I happen to go to. Nobody there knows how to run it, but somebody that does came by and we ran several programs I made. now I just need to convince the workshop people to let me run it myself
10:49 PM Tom_L: what sort of cnc?
10:51 PM ziper: techno cnc hd router
10:52 PM _unreal_: cool
10:52 PM ziper: are there any cheap vacuum solutions?
10:53 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I just ordered a programmer
10:53 PM _unreal_: https://www.onlinecomponents.com/microchip-tech./pg164100-50386161.html?ref=GooglePLA&utm_term=PG164100&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqNPyBRCjARIsAKA-WFw8quQjt14-vxP33CZM8yuR284aobc2mPijZKMCOV308hGdJHQMdV0aAhZbEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
10:53 PM _unreal_: I didnt know that thing is a programmer as well
10:53 PM _unreal_: and it suports DSPIC
10:54 PM _unreal_: TOTAL score, ok I just opened a thing I got from a dumpster at work
10:54 PM _unreal_: one of these BOSE driver things
10:54 PM _unreal_: kicking my self I could have had a few.
10:54 PM _unreal_: they have HUGE caps in them
10:54 PM _unreal_: 2x 63v 10,000uF
10:55 PM _unreal_: and 2x 35v 5,000uF
10:55 PM _unreal_: ve7it, My motor controllers are only minus the working DSPIC chips
10:55 PM _unreal_: ARG..
10:55 PM _unreal_: my picclone seems to program EVERYTHING but these damn DSPICS
10:55 PM _unreal_: pickit3
10:56 PM Tom_L: welcome to PIC world
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: ziper: those are made pretty well, what isn the work area?
10:57 PM ziper: 5x10? its definitely larger than 4x8
10:57 PM CaptHindsight: oh nice
10:58 PM _unreal_: interesting http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8080053
10:58 PM _unreal_: Thats the computer I pulled out of the dumpster
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: well it is an HP :p
10:59 PM _unreal_: and free
10:59 PM CaptHindsight: works?
11:00 PM CaptHindsight: once they catch too many viruses there not much more you can do
11:02 PM _unreal_: soon as my Yep works
11:02 PM _unreal_: got a bleeping windows password on it though :/
11:03 PM _unreal_: if only I had some way of bypassing winblows
11:06 PM veegee: _unreal_ I never had issues programming dspics but I have an mplab realice
11:07 PM veegee: which microchip gave to me for free 10 years ago
11:07 PM veegee: I was in university and I literally just emailed them and asked them if they could give me one for free because I really wanted it and couldn't afford it
11:07 PM veegee: They said yes and a few days later, it was in my mailbox
11:08 PM veegee: One of those really weird happy moments that you don't expect could ever happen
11:09 PM Tom_L: yeah but that was back when you could get free samples of just about anything too
11:09 PM veegee: You can still get free samples from microchip and linear tech
11:13 PM ve7it: yea... I just received some dspic chips.... had to try a sample order to see if it still worked.. 3 dspic30f4011 and 3 dspic 30f4012... a score
11:14 PM veegee: Yup. Microchip and Linear Tech are my favourite. Their documentation is second to none.
11:14 PM ve7it: _unreal_, that programmer looks like a score... pictures of thecaps?
11:14 PM veegee: LT chips are more expensive but if I had to design a real product for production, I'd still pick their stuff because I'm a nobody and they've been consistently really nice to nobodies like me
11:16 PM ve7it: yes... I tend to design stuff from the free samples I have received... posted projects to the internet... I hope they got some business from it
11:20 PM ve7it: I did some servo amps with lm18200 sapmples, but they are now $25 a chip... ti is not giving any samples away!