#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 20 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

12:00 AM Elmo40: always need 3
12:06 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
12:13 AM veegee: Lest horrifying part of spilling water on your $200 mechanical keyboard is knowing that at least the water is filtered and distilled
12:13 AM Elmo40: https://i.imgur.com/pOVN6XD.jpg
12:13 AM Elmo40: _unreal_, do this
12:19 AM Elmo40: less of a conductor that way
12:49 AM gonzo_: I've cleaned electronics, including keyboatds with mormal hot soapy tap water. all fine. just drain well and leave in a proper
12:50 AM gonzo_: warm place to dry (on a good toasty radiator is ideal)
01:04 AM SpeedEvil: you should really rinse with clean water
01:29 AM selroc: hi guys
01:31 AM Loetmichel: ahem... i put my IBM model M in the dishwasher regularily... (without soap!) ... electronics is not adverse to water IF its not powered. Most of it. Paper membranes of speakers will suffer for exa ple
01:45 AM selroc: there are special products to clean electronics, putting it in water you risk a lot
01:47 AM Loetmichel: selroc: nope.
01:47 AM Loetmichel: not much unless there is one of the few parts that cant stand water on the electronics
01:47 AM Loetmichel: even potentiometers can stand water well
01:48 AM JesseG: But batteries may have the potential to suffer and cause damage.
01:48 AM JesseG: :P
01:48 AM Loetmichel: what electronics need after cleaning with water is a long drying period, because water can get trapped in inductors and stuff
01:48 AM selroc: you risk that some drop of water or even humidity remains inside
01:48 AM Loetmichel: JesseG: indeed, POWERED electronics take water NOT very well
01:49 AM JesseG: Loetmichel, lol it was supposed to be a pun :D
01:49 AM Loetmichel: turns out to be true :-)
01:49 AM selroc: but exactly, cleaning products avoid long drying periods
01:50 AM Loetmichel: i once worked for a company that did fire/flood cleaning of electronics
01:50 AM JesseG: I wash electronics all the time with hot soapy water then dry them with a heater or fan. Not a lot else to do when a battery divulges it's go go juice all over.
01:50 AM Loetmichel: we used a pressure washer at 80°C and soapy water to clean servers.
01:50 AM selroc: never heard of this
01:50 AM JesseG: You probably didn't hit the hard drives though, right? with the pressure washer?
01:51 AM JesseG: They do have filtered breather vents
01:51 AM Loetmichel: just remove the drives, pressure wash, dip in distilled water to get rid of the soap, then place in a vacuum oven at 60° for a while to get rid of trapped water
01:51 AM Loetmichel: works a charm
01:51 AM Loetmichel: optical drives also dont like water
01:51 AM selroc: that is a long and risky procedure, why not use cleaning liquids like 3M products?
01:51 AM JesseG: I've also baked the previously washed electronics in toaster oven at like 105C to boil off any water trapped
01:52 AM Loetmichel: but mostly because it removes all the grease in the mechanics
01:52 AM Loetmichel: JesseG: taht works, too
01:52 AM JesseG: Loetmichel, yeah anti-reflective coated optics are better to keep dry :P
01:52 AM Loetmichel: but you have to have electronics that can withstand 105°C
01:52 AM JesseG: Loetmichel, most PCBs solder at 250C
01:53 AM Loetmichel: JesseG: yes, even higher
01:53 AM JesseG: and the bulk of electronic components ran operate at near 100C, and can store far far above that
01:53 AM SpeedEvil: I've washed a laptop before. Accidentally poured a _lot_ of coffee into the vent when it was sideways
01:53 AM Loetmichel: but some parts can only withstand that at the pins, not at the body
01:53 AM Loetmichel: dsub plugs for example are a prime suspect to melting at temperatures as low as 80°C
01:54 AM SpeedEvil: immediately pulled battery and hard drive, and washed the entire base in hot soapy water, shake vigorously, repeat for hot clean, then put in oven at 60C for a week
01:54 AM SpeedEvil: Worked fine and was a lot cleaner.
01:54 AM SpeedEvil: (I was feeling too crap at the time to properly dismantle.
01:54 AM SpeedEvil: Hence the coffee
01:55 AM Deejay: moin
02:57 AM Loetmichel: [giggle] good that customers cant see us work here or they wouldnt buy the stuff. coworker is drilling out a threaded rivet on a running PC, i am drilling and tapping 50 m3 threads in the steel back chassis of a 42" TV... hope we get all the steel filings out of the systems without causing damage ;)
03:33 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
03:41 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
03:59 AM SpeedEvil: Loetmichel @ work. https://imgur.com/gallery/NFJT4Fr
04:12 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: OUCH... soeone/something had WAY to much power ;)
04:12 AM p0g0_: Regarding the "Why not use 3m products to clean..." I'd offer that water is way safer to you, the human- look up the epidemiology and morbidity rates for hotel maids, house cleaners, nurses etc that use "household" cleaning products. They die young.
04:12 AM Loetmichel: and/or a biiiiig lever
04:13 AM SpeedEvil: p0g0_: yeah - no, you don't get to do that without considering what also might be influencing that.
04:13 AM SpeedEvil: Poorer access to healthcare, for example, geographic influences, ...
04:14 AM p0g0_: The studies I have seen accrue the injury to the cleaning products- it is a broad brush, but 3m is not going to tell you much. I'll just offer that with water, you have no doubts.
04:15 AM SpeedEvil: p0g0_: yeah. many studies are unfortunately crap, and don't have meaningful or correct controls.
04:15 AM p0g0_: Nurses are generally not suffering from access to health care.
04:15 AM p0g0_: Fine. Don't read them then.
04:16 AM SpeedEvil: You'd be surprised. Especially where non-free healthcare and bad pay is a thing.
04:16 AM Loetmichel: p0g0_: water kills, too ;)
04:17 AM p0g0_: SpeedEvil, take a moment and consider what generalities you just offered: "many studies..."
04:18 AM p0g0_: Try to consider risk avoidance, it is not a bad thing.
04:18 AM SpeedEvil: I do not say it is. If you can avoid potentially hazerdous chemicals, you should.
04:18 AM p0g0_: ohh, when did you say that?
04:18 AM p0g0_: I'll scroll up
04:18 AM SpeedEvil: Unfortunately, the general state of the biochemistry and epidemological papers I have read does not spark joy.
04:19 AM p0g0_: generalities anyone?
04:19 AM p0g0_: try reading them, then junk the ones that are bad.
04:19 AM SpeedEvil: 'them' = hundreds of thousands of studies.
04:19 AM p0g0_: You've read so many? I must admit, I have not.
04:20 AM Loetmichel: https://www.lockhaven.edu/~dsimanek/dhmo.htm
04:21 AM SpeedEvil: I've read perhaps 30 studies making various claims on environmental/chemical sensitivities that came to my attention through the media. Most of them had major problems, never mind the overclaiming in abstracts and press releases.
04:22 AM p0g0_: hmm, so, from hundreds of thousands to 30...
04:22 AM p0g0_: OK
04:24 AM XXCoder: my laser engraver cables FINALLY arrived
04:27 AM * SpeedEvil is currently being annoyed that his labeller has a dodgy connection to the print cartridge and sometimes senses it as narrow. + has terrible UI.
04:29 AM SpeedEvil: And of course, the bluetooth only labeller that in principle could be lots better with sensible software doesn't have it.
04:30 AM Loetmichel: *muhaha* coworker just: "can you turn down these aluminium plungers about two mm? they are a bit long?" so i go to the lathe, eyeball it, turn off a bit, give them back... coworker takes a caliper and mesures the first: "exact 2mm shorter... wtf?" measures the second: "and this one, too? to the second digit???? are you a magican???"
04:31 AM SpeedEvil: No, robot.
04:31 AM SpeedEvil: Does 'eyeball it' include touching off and using the dials?
04:32 AM XXCoder: welps an cylon acciently outed himself
04:36 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: nope
04:37 AM SpeedEvil: I guess just moving the dials to the same position as when you touch off works too
04:47 AM Loetmichel: i think its muscle memory
04:48 AM Loetmichel: i know that the lathe has 1mm per turn on the handles
04:49 AM jthornton: morning
04:49 AM XXCoder: hey jt
04:49 AM XXCoder: jt, laser cables finally arrived! i can finally route it the way I want to.
04:57 AM Loetmichel: i just thought it to be funny to see the disbelief on the coworkers face.
04:57 AM Loetmichel: its not that BIG of a featr
04:57 AM Loetmichel: -r
05:06 AM jthornton: morning
05:23 AM Tom_L: morning
05:23 AM Tom_L: another sloppy snow day
05:24 AM XXCoder: fancy
05:24 AM XXCoder: here its combo thats causing super dry air
05:24 AM XXCoder: but evenually will end
05:25 AM Tom_L: 26°F, Lo 18
05:26 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
06:27 AM fogl81: hello
06:34 AM fogl81: Is there a way to set the hal periodic execution time to be eligned to system absolute time (for preempt_rt)? For instance if i set the thread period to 1ms, I would like the hal to be executed for the first time at absolute time of x seconds and 000000000 ns, and then next time at x seconds and 001000000 ns, and so on.
07:25 AM X704 is now known as tiwake
10:16 AM unterhaus: electric company might finally be getting ready to pull cable through the conduit they put in last fall
10:17 AM unterhaus: my favorite part is the bucket trucks. which are very useful in the case of buried cable
10:17 AM unterhaus: fleet of bucket trucks on our street
10:35 AM Vitreous: how painful is setting up linuxcnc for someone with a rudimentary understanding of linux?
10:42 AM gregcnc: you can play with a live disk and run in ram without installing anything.
10:43 AM gregcnc: but not running a machine, this is mainly used to test a PC
10:43 AM Vitreous: i will give that a try tonight
10:43 AM Vitreous: ultimately what i would like to do is replace a Dynapath 20 controller on a 3 axis mill i have
10:43 AM gregcnc: you can install from the live disk, tweaking a PC that isn't running best can take a bit of effort, but it's not terrible.
10:43 AM unterhaus: I used the live cd to set up a stepper system. Most time consuming part of the job was to assemble the parts
10:44 AM unterhaus: couple of hours
10:44 AM Vitreous: this would be a velocity drive servo system
10:44 AM gregcnc: choosing a PC that is known to run well helps a lot
10:45 AM Vitreous: i have a dell dual xeon system not being used. would the xeons be a problem?
10:45 AM unterhaus: Vitreous, I find the difficulty for that is mostly the system design for safety
10:45 AM unterhaus: I was going to test a dell T5500
10:46 AM unterhaus: should be able to drive a mesa or similar system okay
10:46 AM gregcnc: yeah, most of the real setup is adding evertyhign you want int eh machine itself and configuring linuxcnc to handle it
10:46 AM unterhaus: I guess if you are retrofitting a well-designed system, it might not be so difficult
10:46 AM Vitreous: i would be using mesa. probably the 5i25, 7i77
10:47 AM unterhaus: my mill was stepper driven, so less likely to go off and hit the limits at speed
10:47 AM gregcnc: run the live disk and see how the box runs. installing on a spare hdd so you can play with tweaks is easiest
10:47 AM Vitreous: it was a CNC from the start, but has the old Dynapath controller. no drip feed, no usb, no moden anything
10:47 AM Vitreous: modern
10:48 AM jymmmm: it had paper tape?
10:48 AM Vitreous: i think mostly you programmed it manually, standing in front of it
10:48 AM Vitreous: it does have a serial port
10:48 AM gregcnc: if you have schematics that shouldn't be terrible either
10:48 AM Vitreous: i do have the schematics
10:49 AM gregcnc: even without, I doubt it has anything really tricky inside
10:49 AM selroc: for cleaning electronics only suffice an air blower, they became "as new" .......
10:49 AM Vitreous: it has tachometers, im not positive if it has encoders yet. need to look more tonight
10:49 AM gregcnc: I would check the forums to see if a dynapath has been done. I think there was someone here a few years ago
10:49 AM jymmmm: Eh, toss em in the dishwasher =)
10:50 AM selroc: that totally blunted, never heard of it, it is a risky procedure
10:50 AM Vitreous: it has been done. ive read a few posts. but they dont go too deep into specifics
10:50 AM selroc: and very long to dry
10:50 AM selroc: totally inefficient
10:50 AM Vitreous: ive washed keyboards in the dishwasher
10:51 AM selroc: do as you will, you have been warned
10:52 AM selroc: a compressed air blower is what you need instead
10:53 AM Vitreous: cno shortage of that here
10:54 AM jymmmm: It might sound wrong, but dishwasher is practile for cleaning PCB's
10:54 AM selroc: I have one and clean electronics with that, never had problems nor long waiting times
10:54 AM jymmmm: espeiclaly if there is years fo oily gooey dust built up
10:54 AM selroc: compressed air removed oil too
10:54 AM jymmmm: acting as thermal insulators
10:55 AM skunkworks: be careful with compressed air.. Builds up static
10:55 AM selroc: just discharge it before powering uo
10:55 AM selroc: up
10:56 AM selroc: but you wait hours or days to dry the part
10:56 AM selroc: with air not
11:28 AM Vitreous: to be honest ive seen professional electronics shops with dishwashers for pcbs
11:28 AM Vitreous: they even sell specific detergent
11:30 AM Loetmichel: Vitreous: indeed
11:34 AM unterhaus_: I was wondering about detergent
11:43 AM Tom_L: all the dumbasses showed their skillset today... sitting in the ditch by the side of the road
11:44 AM selroc: maybe they use cleaning liquids, not water
11:45 AM selroc: normally dielectric liquids
12:05 PM selroc: dielectric liquids are also used in datacenters https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/data-center-us/applications/immersion-cooling/
12:15 PM pcw_home: Many new boards use water based fluxes so start life with a water bath...
12:18 PM pcw_home: hot water and detergent is normally fine for most components (main problem are things that leak and may take a long time to dry out internally: relays, membrane keypads etc)
12:24 PM selroc: I can't believe it, that's a risky procedure
12:28 PM Rab: Water cleaning is a fact of PCB manufacture. Small prototype operations will use a dishwasher, too. But unless you're well-versed in the process, and can control for the risks, it's not something I'd recommend to someone who just wants to clean out an old, maybe irreplaceable CNC control.
12:29 PM selroc: ah ah now it starts to make sense a bit
12:29 PM selroc: I never used water on electronics, every manual disrecommends it
12:29 PM Rab: I agree that compressed air is risky, although I've personally used it many times and haven't had a failure.
12:30 PM selroc: it is easy to discharge static
12:32 PM Rab: I think I'd recommend A) cotton swabs swabs and 100% IPA, B) one of those dust-off cans, which develop a lower pressure than shop air. Gentle application in both cases.
12:36 PM Rab: Actually C), this stuff. It's expensive but it's what I use for commercial prototypes, leaves a spotless board. https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaning-products-for-electronics/cleaners/electronic-cleaners/aerosol-electronic-cleaners/electronic-cleaners-superwash-406b
12:38 PM selroc: exact , I don't know however if they are equivalent to 3M liquids
02:05 PM JT-Shop: yea the new shell mill has arrived just in time for a job in the mill
02:22 PM miss0r: JT-Shop: Nice
02:23 PM miss0r: I am doing a boring job here. because I can't remember for sh*t apparently, I managed to fail to order ground 16mm roundstock. Guess who has to turn and grind it himself now? :)
02:23 PM miss0r: I need to make 6x 15.99x65.50mm pieces with a 28.5mm deep M10 thread at either end *sigh*
02:23 PM miss0r: That would have been SO much faster if I had remembered to order the stock.
02:24 PM Tom_L: JT-Shop, get any snow?
02:25 PM * miss0r is jealous of anyone getting snow now'a'days
02:25 PM Tom_L: you can have this batch.. i'm pretty much over it
02:25 PM miss0r: Usualy we have a blanket of snow covering most of everything this time of year. This year. Nada
02:25 PM miss0r: well.. November of last year we had a slight drizzle... like 1mm of snow or something
02:25 PM miss0r: Send it on over!
02:26 PM Tom_L: but it melts quick
02:26 PM Vitreous: negative 4 here this mornin
02:26 PM Vitreous: F
02:26 PM miss0r: thats pretty cold :)
02:26 PM miss0r: We have 6-7c at the moment
02:26 PM Tom_L: i think it's supposed to get into the teens tonight
02:26 PM miss0r: It is nuts
02:27 PM JT-Shop: Tom_L, sunny and cool
02:27 PM JT-Shop: 20 here tonight
02:27 PM miss0r: I blame the Springfield tire fire... :
02:27 PM Tom_L: well it's sunny now but sure wasn't earlier
02:28 PM JT-Shop: Springfield?
02:29 PM unterhaus_: supposed to hit 45f and 50f here this weekend. Isn't supposed to get above freezing today
02:34 PM miss0r: JT-Shop: The simpsons
02:36 PM * JT-Shop has not seen the simpsons in a long time lol
02:39 PM miss0r: me neither :) But I think that thing has been mentioned on and off since the beginning
02:42 PM XXCoder: 0mm of snow here so far. 3 times snow but none lived though touching floor heh
03:08 PM unterhaus_: we have had just enough snow that I have had to shovel a couple of times. But our big snowstorms often come in march. Biggest was in april
03:16 PM miss0r: Finally done with the ground rods!
03:17 PM miss0r: I still have a few splined shafts and a few bores to machine before I can call it a night. at the moment I've been at it 16 hours...
03:17 PM miss0r: Another 4 togo I would think.. Unless I start making stupid mistakes because I am tired. Then it will take even longer, resulting in more stupid mistakes ect...
03:17 PM miss0r: Lets just hope theres none :D
03:23 PM JT-Shop: now I have 2 people interested in the Enco mill
03:25 PM miss0r: if only you had a super compact 6 emcoturn cnc for sale, I would buy it ;)
03:32 PM JT-Shop: what is that?
03:33 PM gregcnc: https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=11739&acctid=4753
03:34 PM gregcnc: that volvo would probably make it here
03:34 PM gregcnc: eck landrover
04:27 PM Deejay: gn8
04:50 PM _unreal_: amazing
04:50 PM _unreal_: I got my chip that I was not expecting till sat.
04:50 PM _unreal_: I still need to build the damn board
06:31 PM Eric__ is now known as unterhaus
06:44 PM net|: if you or your kids have a mild to severe disability that obstructs work they pay 1600 per month in Canada on AISH program. not even limited to one kid
07:22 PM ziper: on a cnc router, how do you find edges without a proble?
07:22 PM ziper: wiggler?
07:22 PM ziper: or is a probe just considered required base equipment
07:24 PM flyback: you just grease a canadian between the bit till it centers
07:26 PM * Tom_L slaps flyback around like a bobblehead
07:27 PM Tom_L: ziper, you could put a dowel in the spindle of known diameter and use a feeler gage then subtract the radius + feeler gage thickness
07:28 PM ziper: can you dial down the jog sensitivity enough to just use a regular edge finder?
07:29 PM Tom_L: i can on mine
07:29 PM Tom_L: but i've got a pendant with an MPG
07:30 PM Tom_L: if you don't have one, i'd consider investing in one. it's one of the handiest tools you can add
07:31 PM Tom_L: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant/pendant1.jpg
07:31 PM Tom_L: i made my own
07:33 PM ziper: neat
07:33 PM ziper: thanks
07:44 PM Tom_L: makes setups alot easier
09:54 PM Bushman: i've got one of those whb04b-4 pendants.
09:54 PM Bushman: making it work in 2.7 was a hassle but now it's my favorite tool on this machine
09:55 PM Bushman: also, i've already crashed my spindle once because i did not switch the axes correctly once XD
09:56 PM Bushman: slammed a 90° 30mm dia V bit into a chunk of wood. the spindle stalled and fortunately the tool wasn't damaged.
09:56 PM Bushman: edded up with ruined stock, wood chips in my hair and dirty pants XD
09:57 PM Javabean: well, atleast they weren't brown pants
09:58 PM Javabean: well, actually... from the sounds of it they were after that experience
10:02 PM Bushman: ;D
10:02 PM * Bushman nods
10:05 PM Javabean: how many splinters did you catche
10:06 PM Bushman: in my beard? plenty. under my skin? none fortunately.
10:06 PM Bushman: also i had my eye protection glases
10:06 PM Bushman: so no biggie. more fighten that anything.
10:07 PM Bushman: i've lerned to not use continous mode near stock or table
10:07 PM Bushman: i switch to step mode and select low increment, like 0.1 for example
10:08 PM Bushman: even if i'd crank to hard for some reason i'd move it by no more than few mm before noticing
10:09 PM Bushman: still getting used to it.
10:09 PM Javabean: congrats, just remember to keep an eye out for decimals and units of measure
10:09 PM Bushman: i'll have to check if i can use HAL to touch off
10:09 PM Bushman: what do you mean?
10:10 PM Bushman: do you want to tell me the pendant switches to inches if i switch the units in Gcode?!\
10:10 PM * Bushman investigates
10:10 PM Javabean: only "examples" of the crazy things that CAN happen... and units IS a gcode command
10:11 PM Bushman: i know it IS
10:11 PM Bushman: but does it change the behaviour of the pendant?
10:11 PM Javabean: not sure... not familiar with your "pendant"
10:11 PM fjungclaus1 is now known as fjungclaus
10:11 PM Bushman: i've got one of those whb04b-4 pendants.
10:13 PM Javabean: ok, now that i have "seen one"... it shouldn't change the behaviour... shouldn't
10:15 PM Bushman: i just tested.
10:15 PM Bushman: it doesn't
10:15 PM Bushman: everything is still metric, only gcode interpreter does inches
10:15 PM Bushman: so MDI too
10:15 PM Bushman: but DRO and pendant inputs stay the same
10:47 PM flyback: https://imgur.com/a/CFNg8DR
10:55 PM veegee: https://www.amazon.ca/Stanley-J710SL-Click-Stop-Adjustable-10-Inch/dp/B001HWAG04/ I have this wrench, I really love the brushed metal finish but I have no idea how to do it myself. Sanding with fine sandpaper doesn't seem to work
10:56 PM veegee: Also, what is the black coating? It's not paint. Not sure what it's called but I want to try and do it myself
10:58 PM Tom_L: black oxide
10:58 PM veegee: Love it. I hate chrome plating, looks tacky and flakes off
11:10 PM fjungclaus1 is now known as fjungclaus
11:13 PM flyback: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV4kn4GQMJSfRkfwsIsXe4w
11:47 PM selroc: hi guys