#linuxcnc Logs

Feb 19 2020

#linuxcnc Calendar

02:32 AM Deejay: moin
04:35 AM fogl81: hello
04:44 AM jymmmm: good morning
04:53 AM jthornton: morning
04:53 AM XXCoder: heys
05:01 AM Tom_L: morning
05:16 AM Loetmichel: *AAAAHHHHH* The next i catch "cooling" with bike chain lube on the CNC6040 router will get a Firing squad... took ma an hour to clean that machine with alcohol and a lot of effort. That stuff STICKS!... (alsways the same idiots who do things like that!)
05:17 AM SpeedEvil: Add mist cooling?
05:18 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil: next to thet chain lube spray can was a can of classic wd40. Why didnt he use that but the sticky mess?
05:19 AM SpeedEvil: Poor parentage?
05:19 AM XXCoder: poor vision?
05:19 AM Loetmichel: nope, i think its more the "russian" way. "works, dont care about the aftermath".
05:33 AM fogl81: I am reading about the hal, and is is not clear to me which linux time is the basis for the linuxcnc hal execution (i am using preempt_rt).
05:39 AM jthornton: hal components run in the thread you load them into
05:57 AM fogl81: ok, but the trhread has a period parameter
05:59 AM fogl81: i assume the next thread is executed at current_time+period?
06:00 AM Loetmichel: SpeedEvil/ XXCoder: sidenote: just started the machine, same file as yesterday at noon... (updated the file) scrolling thru the "last files used" menue.... 8 files down is my file... means: that guy milled 8 parts for his private Machine in those few hours yesterday... *sigh*
06:00 AM Loetmichel: and i wonder where all the mill bits disapper/get dull.
06:00 AM XXCoder: bah
06:08 AM jymmmm: Is the soft estop brought out to the paraport by chance?
06:16 AM jthornton: in what?
06:16 AM Loetmichel: *haaach ja* ... the perks of being computer literate... coworker just installed a gtx780 in a Customer PC... plugged in two 6 pin Power plugs (thats all the PSU has), startet the PC... GPU warns that it cant use full clock because of not enough power... coworker panics and shuts down the PC... "Löti, what now???" $me: "just use it the way it is, you dont need full gpu power for that test!"
06:16 AM Loetmichel: "but it warns me that the plugs are wrong, isnt that bad?" "not if you dont need full GPU load" ... back and forth... took me a good half hour to convince him to just ignore the warning ;)
06:18 AM jymmmm: jthornton: I'm planning on using a safety relay so the spindle doens't turn on when power up the computer, Just wondering if when hitting ESTOP within lcnc, is a signal brought out to the paraport?
06:19 AM jthornton: it can be
06:20 AM jymmmm: jthornton: via hal?
06:20 AM jthornton: yes
06:21 AM jymmmm: is that the "smart"/straight forward way of accomplishing what I need?
06:25 AM jthornton: what ever works...
06:25 AM jymmmm: k
06:25 AM jymmmm: thank you
06:28 AM jthornton: https://forum.linuxcnc.org/47-hal-examples/25861-external-e-stop
06:37 AM jymmmm: jthornton: got it, thanks =)
06:59 AM selroc: I have used WD-40 spray with success on aluminum
07:12 AM fogl81: Hello everybod. I am reading the /hal/components source and noticed that some components have the hal_export_function for every instance/number of the component (for example siggen.c), but some components have only one hal_export_function for all the instances (for example encoder.c). Is there a reason for this?
07:17 AM jthornton: you might ask that on the developers mailing list or #linuxcnc-devel
07:46 AM Loetmichel: selroc: apart from the price and the intense smell it works well indeed
07:47 AM Loetmichel: plain petroleum/lamp oil is a lot less expensive and works just the same in that application though
07:47 AM Loetmichel: chain lube spray however is not only subpar for that job, its also REALLY expensive AND sticky as hell
07:47 AM Loetmichel: NOT fun to clean the machine afterwards
07:48 AM Loetmichel: especially when the parts the coworker made were private work
09:17 AM unterhaus: some hal components may export more than they need to export. I would say don't export if you don't have to
09:45 AM selroc: I made some wood work time ago, the photos http://www.selnet.org
09:47 AM selroc: I have used PyCAM to generate the gcode
09:54 AM selroc: the machine in the photos is controlled by a proprietary software. Before the end of year I will build a new CNC controlled by LinuxCNC, I just need to complete my tests before that.
10:25 AM unterhaus: more questions I have from the email list: what kind of machine has step dir controlled 2kW servos combined with linear encoders
10:25 AM unterhaus: really curious how the original control worked.
10:26 AM unterhaus: I think you need something like a Kalman filter, but the inner loop stabilization done with the motor encoders
10:27 AM unterhaus: I have some dc motors with tachs and encoders, so maybe like that somehow
10:30 AM unterhaus: Dave Engvall posted this, nested pids http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Combining_Two_Feedback_Devices_On_One_Axis
10:41 AM skunkworks: unterhaus: 2 pid loops work well for inner and outer loops..
10:42 AM skunkworks: the wiki explains it well. There was also jmk's website - but that isn't up anymore
10:43 AM skunkworks: people love the step/dir servo solutions.. I think they would be very suprised at how well they actually followed path...
10:45 AM unterhaus: I have thought about it, but I have analog servo and stmbl to chose from
10:46 AM unterhaus: I did some work with clearpath step/dir servos. You just have to remember they have an error and they might not make it back up right away
10:47 AM unterhaus: we were driving it too fast, and it would get behind. That led to overshoot. Core xy kinematics, limiting x and y accel can be totally wrong
10:48 AM unterhaus: with the arduino software we were using, it was trivial to limit the motor accel instead of x and y. I thinnk with linuxcnc it isn't so trivial
11:16 AM jthornton: you should be able to find jmk web site on the way back machine what ever it's called
11:52 AM Loetmichel: re at home. MAAAN that clutch is done for... was relaxed driving at 50kph in fifth gear (1000 rpm) then i floored it instead of shifting down at the beginning of the highway. car accelerates, rpm rises. 2500 RRPM: sudden loss of acceleration, engine jumps into the limiter. and no, i didnt touch the clutch pedal :-(
11:56 AM unterhaus: I'm going to do the sensible thing and wait for there to be a problem
11:57 AM unterhaus: I do have linear encoder for ever axis on my mill though
12:03 PM gregcnc: what kind fo mill?
12:06 PM skunkworks: jthornton: oh - good ideal!
12:07 PM unterhaus: Bridgeport series II. I would have it running but I crushed one of my fingers with it when I almost had it working
12:07 PM unterhaus: Then I moved it and blew up my amps as a result
12:07 PM gregcnc: ouch
12:08 PM unterhaus: the finger recovered, but it was a big obstacle mentally
12:09 PM unterhaus: skunkworks: when you hooked up the parport rpi4 system, what were you driving with the parport?
12:18 PM skunkworks: unterhaus: a leadshine mx3660
12:19 PM skunkworks: unterhaus: https://web.archive.org/web/20160110024239/http://jmkasunich.com/
12:22 PM unterhaus: skunkworks: the stmbl is your spindle drive, right?
12:26 PM skunkworks: yes - running through smart serial
12:28 PM unterhaus: thanks
01:03 PM unterhaus: I have to keep my mind on doing the simplest possible thing to get it running and not chasing after all the stuff that would be nice to have
02:02 PM veegee: Ok so got my diamond lapping plate and oil stone
02:02 PM veegee: Should I use any kind of fluid when flatting the oilstone?
02:02 PM unterhaus: wouldn't hurt to use some oil?
02:02 PM veegee: Also random thought: LOL "ball screw". Such an innocent term yet so provocative.
02:03 PM veegee: Yeah I've seen recommendations for kerosne, so thought I'd ask here first
02:03 PM unterhaus: kerosene is oily
02:03 PM unterhaus: people use it for sharpening with oilstones
02:04 PM veegee: Barely, I can get all of it to evaporate by blowing air on it
02:04 PM veegee: But ok, I'll give that a shot. I also have ISO VG 32 spindle oil
02:05 PM unterhaus: I know people use detergent and water to sharpen on diamond plates. Not sure how your oilstone would like that
02:05 PM unterhaus: I think you want to float the slurry a little
02:05 PM veegee: In that case the thinnest motor oil might be good. All the machine tool oils are detergent free
02:14 PM unterhaus: I imagine synthetic would work well, but I'm hardly an expert
02:24 PM CaptHindsight: it's taken about a month for the topic to slow down on the ML about changing the structure of LCNC
02:25 PM CaptHindsight: to something more Macchinekit like
02:25 PM unterhaus: I think that is normalizing the crazy a little
02:26 PM unterhaus: machinekit just made 2 computer systems a little easier
02:26 PM unterhaus: but did that part get finished?
02:26 PM CaptHindsight: now that the topic has been thoroughly covered one can just point the next player to the ML discussion
02:26 PM roycroft: i use a diluted simple green solution on my diamond plates
02:27 PM roycroft: and distilld water on my shapton ceramic stone
02:27 PM roycroft: on oilstones i've found that 3-in-1 oil works best for me
02:27 PM unterhaus: CaptHindsight but we still need to discuss why LCNC can't step/dir at 50khz through a parallel port one more time
02:28 PM unterhaus: I always thought it would be nice to offload some of the machine control to a simpler computer, but I always end up with a system that is more expensive than a computer and a Mesa product
02:28 PM roycroft: when flattening oilstones on my diamond lapping plate i use the diluted simple green solution
02:29 PM roycroft: it does a good job of cleaning the gunk out of the oilstone
02:29 PM roycroft: and has the advantage that you can rinse it off in the sink
02:33 PM unterhaus: we need a searchable database of the ML discussion so we can point idea people to it. The format would be like one of those turing test simulations
02:34 PM unterhaus: Q: why don't commercial outfits use it? A:they do, they just don't have to tell you
02:35 PM unterhaus: the Turing test simulation can just be Les Newall when he's on break
02:40 PM unterhaus: Cap, the problem with your idea is the idea people (IP) don't really want an answer, they want you to agree
02:42 PM unterhaus: I'm a big fan of highly distributed systems, but I'm not sure I see it in this application
02:44 PM unterhaus: most I can see is like a super-GRBL, which was the way I understood machinekit
02:56 PM CaptHindsight: answer: Do you have anything to offer or do you just want LCNC bent to your whims?
03:00 PM CaptHindsight: I guess someone could hack LCNC pretty quick to just offer a step and dir open loop solution for USB
03:00 PM unterhaus: pretty much, then when it's broken, they'll move on to some other OSS
03:00 PM unterhaus: yes, that hack exists
03:01 PM CaptHindsight: but then you'll miss all the good stuff, but they just want a cheap stepper based controller
03:01 PM unterhaus: Cap, speakng of 1um/step, have you ever seen anything like this? https://www.ultramotion.com/servo-cylinder/
03:01 PM unterhaus: if I'm reading it right, it has something like 3um per step
03:01 PM veegee: Hmm that looks cool
03:02 PM unterhaus: I'm building a fatigue machine that works inside a xcat machine
03:02 PM CaptHindsight: I'm using smaller versions on my CNC airbrush
03:03 PM unterhaus: I wish I could get smaller, but it does need to develop some force
03:03 PM unterhaus: probably get the one that travels 1 inch, that's enough
03:04 PM unterhaus: I was looking at thompson linear actuators, but the shortest is about twice as long and that is starting to get a bit awkward
03:05 PM veegee: Imperial vs metric ball screw kit - it doesn't matter for computer controlled right?
03:05 PM veegee: Only matters if you want one rotation to equal exactly one metric unit vs inch or whatever?
03:05 PM veegee: I ask because they have an imperial one in stock, but the metric kit is special order and I have to wait 2 months
03:05 PM CaptHindsight: veegee: pretty much
03:06 PM veegee: even for hand operation I don't care because I have a DRO
03:06 PM veegee: so safe to just pick up the imperial kit?
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: some people find imperial to be too old fashioned :)
03:06 PM veegee: I fucking hate imperial
03:06 PM unterhaus: I was told long ago that Lcnc doesn't care about things like that
03:06 PM veegee: but I also don't want to wait 2 months for the metric kit to ship
03:06 PM CaptHindsight: and don't want to heckled at their next makerspace meetup
03:06 PM veegee: lol I'm not a hipster either
03:06 PM unterhaus: I always thought that metric was a bit awkward at the scale most machining is done
03:07 PM veegee: 1 thousandth of an inch = 25.4µm
03:07 PM veegee: 1 thou is too big
03:07 PM unterhaus: then I did a batch of machining in the range of a fraction of a micron and changed my mind
03:07 PM veegee: also why the fuck is it thousandths of an inch, 12 inches per foot, 12 feet per ass etc.
03:07 PM veegee: I can't express how retarded imperial is
03:07 PM CaptHindsight: I go back and forth between inches and um and nm all the time
03:07 PM unterhaus: everything has been metric since just before I was born
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: you get used to it, well i did
03:08 PM CaptHindsight: I find myself constantly using some formula or another so I just don't care anymore
03:08 PM unterhaus: an inch is exactly 25.4 mm, an inch is a metric measurement
03:09 PM unterhaus: that's my position with people who insist that imperial is better, anyway
03:10 PM unterhaus: if you want something that is really crazy, bicycle frame tube sizes are given in mm, but they are all inch sizes
03:10 PM CaptHindsight: same for currency, the ratios between currencies constantly changes
03:10 PM unterhaus: do you want a 28.6mm top tube?
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: Google will likely propose new units to track us better
03:11 PM unterhaus: I have worked with people who think in microinches. I don't even try to understand what they are talking about
03:11 PM CaptHindsight: or some other tracking co like Amazon
03:13 PM unterhaus: none of their customers work in microinches afaik, dunno why they insist
03:13 PM CaptHindsight: 25.4nm
03:14 PM unterhaus: I wrote some software that did measurements, I had to make it so it would do nm, um, mi
03:14 PM unterhaus: conversion routine worked, so it wasn't too bad
03:18 PM CaptHindsight: 39370.1 inches to 1 Km
03:28 PM CaptHindsight: customer has 2 confirmed shipping addresses, complains we used the wrong one
03:29 PM CaptHindsight: isn't retail fun?
03:31 PM unterhaus: paypal used to keep my work address around even after I tried to delete it. They also had two identical versions of my home address, one confirmed one not
03:36 PM roycroft: i've had that happen
03:37 PM roycroft: i specify a delivery address with the vendor
03:37 PM roycroft: then i pay with paypal
03:37 PM roycroft: if i'm not using the default shipping address at paypal paypal will report the default address to the vendor
03:37 PM unterhaus: in my case, paypal finally settled on the confirmed address, so I prefer to go through them
03:37 PM roycroft: and often the vendor will ship to that instead of the one i specified at the vendor website
03:37 PM roycroft: especially when the vendor policy is to only ship to a confirmed paypal address
03:38 PM roycroft: it's prudent to always specify the desired delivery address at paypal as well as at the vendor's site
03:38 PM CaptHindsight: it is part of the Paypal seller protection
03:39 PM roycroft: i blame my issues regarding this as old age and forgetfullness on my part
03:39 PM roycroft: so i blame myself, not the vendor or paypal
03:39 PM CaptHindsight: they only cover you for funny business if you only ship to the confirmed address
03:40 PM roycroft: i had a recent issue with a vendor and paypal that lands wholly on the vendor
03:40 PM roycroft: i purchased an item on the vendor's website
03:40 PM roycroft: paid for it with paypal
03:40 PM unterhaus: I wouldn't ship to anything other than a confirmed address, too much nonsense going on
03:40 PM roycroft: i saw an authorization on the credit card that i used for the transaction
03:40 PM roycroft: they shipped the product and i received it
03:40 PM CaptHindsight: worse is CC orders from overseas, no seller protection
03:40 PM roycroft: all is well, right?
03:41 PM CaptHindsight: (other shoe drops)
03:41 PM roycroft: well, it turns out that the vendor "didn't get around" to running the paypal transaction for a few days, and it was declined because the authorization had expired
03:41 PM roycroft: so what did the vendor do?
03:41 PM roycroft: they sent me a dunning letter and suspended my account
03:42 PM roycroft: when i rang them up they admitted neglect on their part but still threatened to send me to collection if i did not pay immediately
03:42 PM roycroft: which i did not, because by that time i had forgotten which credit card i had used, and wanted to be sure that the charge really had not gone through
03:42 PM roycroft: so i did the research, rang them back, and gave them the cc number
03:43 PM roycroft: which they ran directly, bypassing paypal, and charged me almost double the original amount
03:43 PM unterhaus: mcmaster did something like that to me. Shipped me something even though my cc was declined. I didn't notice right away, but paid pretty quickly. The day after I paid, mcmaster sent it to collections
03:43 PM roycroft: and now are unresponsive to my calls about that
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: Paypal works in a limited range of transactions
03:43 PM roycroft: so i've filed a dispute with my cc issuer
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: or you can really get into trouble
03:43 PM roycroft: this is a major, national vendor, mind you
03:43 PM roycroft: not a tiny mom-and-pop outfit
03:43 PM CaptHindsight: yeah
03:44 PM Tom_L: that that up with your cc company
03:44 PM roycroft: unterhaus: i had received the goods before the authorization had expired
03:44 PM roycroft: so they did not ship in spite of the declined payment
03:44 PM roycroft: they never ran the payment
03:44 PM unterhaus: same with me, mcmaster had shipped even though they knew I didn't pay
03:44 PM roycroft: it could not have been declined
03:45 PM unterhaus: neither of us knew we hadn't paid
03:45 PM roycroft: and i would not have minded so much that they were negligett, except to send me a dunning letter an threaten to send me to collection, knowing that it was their screwup is completely unacceptable
03:45 PM roycroft: that pissed me off
03:45 PM roycroft: it could have been sorted out quite easily
03:46 PM unterhaus: who was it?
03:46 PM roycroft: rockler woodworking
03:46 PM roycroft: but nasty is the new way to do business, i guess
03:46 PM unterhaus: never liked them
03:46 PM roycroft: i don't like their house brand stuff, for the most part
03:46 PM unterhaus: but I have better access to woodcraft anyway
03:46 PM roycroft: and they've gotten rid of most major brands for their house brand
03:46 PM roycroft: it's the same with woodcraft
03:47 PM roycroft: but i buy from both of them
03:47 PM roycroft: this particular purchase was some bessey clamps, and rockler have the best price anywhere on bessey clamps
03:47 PM unterhaus: there is a beautifyl woodcraft in Harrisburg PA
03:47 PM roycroft: woodcraft stores are hit-and-miss, because they're all franchises
03:47 PM unterhaus: immediately after they moved in, the owner started trying to sell it
03:47 PM roycroft: the owner of the local one is an asshole
03:47 PM CaptHindsight: <--- holds nose and goes back to coding
03:48 PM roycroft: and his employees are assholes
03:48 PM unterhaus: I usually just buy from lee Valley because I know they do mail order pretty well
03:49 PM roycroft: i buy from lee valley, highland woodworking, and hartville hardware
03:49 PM unterhaus: I really liked the woodcraft in Utah, manager was an obsessive woodworker
03:49 PM roycroft: and i buy direct on some things, like lie-nielsen and incra
03:49 PM unterhaus: were your clamps on sale or something?
03:50 PM roycroft: in fact, lie-nielsen are having a road show up in portland this coming saturday, and i'm heading up there for that
03:50 PM unterhaus: curious why they would increase the prices
03:50 PM roycroft: no, they weren't on sale, but rockler's regular price is better than most vendors' sale price
03:50 PM roycroft: they didn't increase the price
03:50 PM roycroft: they just charged my card the wrong amount
03:50 PM unterhaus: I see, they are just screwups, twice
03:50 PM roycroft: the invoice still shows $39.99 for the total amount
03:50 PM roycroft: and they charged $79.44
03:50 PM roycroft: yes
03:51 PM roycroft: they are screwups, twice
03:51 PM unterhaus: well, that should be an easy win at the CC company
03:51 PM roycroft: yes
03:51 PM roycroft: i sent the cc company all the documentation that they need
03:51 PM roycroft: i'm just surprised that rockler won't take care of it themselves
03:51 PM roycroft: chargebacks and disputes cost them a *lot* of money
03:51 PM unterhaus: crummy corporate culture
03:52 PM roycroft: sure, if they ignore me they might get ~$40 in free cash
03:52 PM unterhaus: my favorite cc chargeback was when someone bought flowers with my cc at a shop just down the street from Mcmaster the day I ordered something from mcmaster
03:53 PM roycroft: but when their merchant fees go up by 0.1% because of the dispute, on tens of thousands of dollars of transactions per day, they're going to lose that $40 in an hour, and they will keep losing it for a long time as they pay the higher rate
03:53 PM unterhaus: I called mcmaster but they denied it was their fault
03:53 PM Deejay: gn8
03:54 PM roycroft: plus, i no longer have any confidence in making purchases from them online
03:54 PM roycroft: so when i want to buy stuff from rockler i have to drive to portland now, which is 2 hours from here
03:54 PM unterhaus: I didn't want anything from mcmaster, thought they would want to know
03:54 PM unterhaus: I'm surprised they have the best price on anything
03:55 PM unterhaus: There is something I want from rockler,but I forget what it is. I think they have the best price on kaisen foam
03:56 PM unterhaus: I wouldn't mind having some longer bessey k-clamps, but I don't want to store them
03:56 PM unterhaus: I should get rid of the antique clamps I have
03:57 PM roycroft: i get kaizen foam from woodcraft, because they're just across the river from me, and shipping on kaizen foam is really expensive
03:57 PM roycroft: home depot used to have the best price anywhere on 50" k-body revo clamps, but they just upped the price, and now rockler are cheaper
03:58 PM roycroft: those are the ONLY bessey clamps where home depot was the best price
03:58 PM unterhaus: what about lowe's
03:58 PM roycroft: they don't carry bessey
03:58 PM roycroft: lowe's are another of those stores who are really into house brands
03:58 PM unterhaus: bummer
03:58 PM roycroft: i hardly buy anything at lowe's
03:58 PM unterhaus: they spent so much on kobalt and then again on craftsman
03:58 PM roycroft: they're like the k-mart of big box home improvement stores
03:59 PM roycroft: just a tiny step above harbor freight in quality
03:59 PM unterhaus: not sure I would go that far :)
03:59 PM roycroft: and totally focused on low-end consumer stuff
03:59 PM unterhaus: they really lost the contractors around here, HD kills them on that front
04:00 PM unterhaus: it's a pita though, if you go into HD after 4, all the carts are loaded with contractor orders
04:01 PM roycroft: i have a lowe's card, and get 5% off everything with that, but i really only buy sheet goods and occasionaly spray paint there
04:01 PM unterhaus: for a while there, our HD would bid on any order over $1000. As I understand it that $ amount varies by store
04:02 PM unterhaus: I get 10% off because veteran
04:02 PM unterhaus: at lowe's. HD doesn't do that
04:03 PM unterhaus: so I usually buy tools at lowe's
04:04 PM roycroft: we have a local big box store, jerry's, where i usually buy tools and materials
04:05 PM roycroft: it's a huge store, locally-owned, right by my house, and they will price match anyone, even online vendors
04:05 PM unterhaus: that sounds nice
04:05 PM roycroft: they carry bessey k-body clamps, but not the revo ones
04:05 PM unterhaus: I would even take a menards at this point
04:05 PM roycroft: i can order revo from them, but they don't do special orders with free shipping in real time
04:06 PM roycroft: if i want to not pay shipping i have to wait for their next regular order
04:06 PM roycroft: and i do that often
04:06 PM roycroft: but sometimes i can't wait a month or two, so i use other vendors
04:06 PM roycroft: they match sale prices too
04:07 PM Jymmm: roycroft lies, he has back alley "fell of the truck" specials
04:07 PM roycroft: do you buy any festool proucts, unterhaus?
04:08 PM unterhaus: never felt rich enough for festool
04:08 PM roycroft: well if you're ever interested, go to festoolrecon.com
04:08 PM roycroft: it's a festool-owned site that sells refurbished tools for 25-30% off
04:08 PM unterhaus: my main desire is a track saw
04:08 PM roycroft: with a 1 year warranty
04:08 PM roycroft: yeah, i love my track saw
04:08 PM unterhaus: you have a festool?
04:09 PM roycroft: the only problem with the recon site is that they only sell one tool at a time
04:09 PM roycroft: yes, i have a ts-55
04:09 PM roycroft: and anything good sells almost instantly
04:09 PM unterhaus: okay, I would lose out
04:09 PM Rab: roycroft, bizarre...in quantity, or just one?
04:09 PM roycroft: you can sign up to get emails whenever they sell something, but you lose if you wait for the email
04:09 PM roycroft: just one-off
04:09 PM roycroft: not quantity
04:09 PM roycroft: so what i did was install firefox developer edition
04:10 PM roycroft: and a plug-in called check4change
04:10 PM Rab: I did waste a few seconds mousing around trying to find anything besides a miter saw.
04:10 PM roycroft: you load a site, highlight some text (the item description in this case), and every 30 seconds it reloads the site and notifies you if it's changed
04:10 PM unterhaus: that's funny
04:11 PM roycroft: i've purchased five sanders and a track saw off the recon site doing that
04:11 PM roycroft: my original interest was in their sanders, because i hate sawdust
04:11 PM roycroft: and their extraction is amazing
04:11 PM roycroft: oh, i got a festool midi extractor from the recon site too
04:11 PM unterhaus: gotta go
04:11 PM roycroft: i can sand safely without a dust mask
04:12 PM roycroft: rab: the kapex is a turd product
04:12 PM roycroft: they blow up all the time
04:12 PM roycroft: so when they list a kapex it usually sticks around for a few hours before some sucker buys it
04:13 PM roycroft: the planex also sticks around - it's a great product, but a specialty product - it's a drywall sander
04:13 PM roycroft: track saws, sanders, and domino tools usually sell literally in seconds
04:13 PM roycroft: their battery drills move slowly too, because festool are idiots
04:14 PM roycroft: they change battery technology with every model, so if you buy three different drills from them you get to maintain three sets of batteries and chargers
04:14 PM roycroft: maybe they're not idiots
04:14 PM roycroft: because people actually do that
04:15 PM roycroft: the really cool thing is that most festool kit sells used for 20% off list or less, even when it's beat up
04:15 PM roycroft: so if you buy for 25-30% off at the recon store, you make money when you sell it
04:17 PM roycroft: and they don't refurbish crap from their repair shop - most of the recon kit is dealer demos and the like that have had very little, if any, use
04:51 PM veegee: Every single one of my spray bottles has failed when spraying things like kerosene and TSP degreaser
04:52 PM veegee: I need a proper spray bottle type thing that won't fail. I've contemplated drilling a hole in the spray bottle and sticking a compressed air blower into it
05:00 PM veegee: TSP degreaser is a tough one. It etches metal so the sprayer has to be plastic or glass
05:05 PM roycroft: veegee: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005POGY74/
05:05 PM roycroft: you're welcome
05:06 PM Bushman: ave
05:08 PM Bushman: i'm trying to work out the image-to-gcode thing and figure out why the origin is not on the 0,0 corner of the image
05:08 PM Bushman: https://github.com/robomechs/image-to-gcode mentions absolutely nothing
05:09 PM Bushman: without knowing what is the relation of the image and the X/Y origin it's virtually imposible to mill anything using more than one tool
05:11 PM veegee: roycroft I have that. It's ok for kerosene, but anything water based, especially TSP is a big no no
05:11 PM veegee: TSP will etch and destroy it
05:27 PM p0g0_: veegee, have you tried a quart/pint compressed air paint sprayer or sand blaster? I use low pressure air and a hand held quart sized sand blaster rig to spew oil, it works well enough, a bit spitty vs misty, but an even enough spray.
05:28 PM veegee: p0g0_ I'm considering this: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00006FRPJ/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB
05:28 PM veegee: It can easily be modified to have no metal in the fluid path
05:28 PM veegee: But yeah another requirement of mine is to spray oil but I have a "rustproofing spray gun" for that
05:29 PM p0g0_: That might be great, depending on the viscosity.
05:32 PM veegee: Yeah. For water based stuff like a TSP degrease solution, should be fine
06:06 PM SpeedEvil: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1230276876930863105?s=19 - those nosecones are getting a whole lot less patchwork looking.
06:06 PM SpeedEvil: Massive SS stampings, and going to get bigger in the future.
06:44 PM veegee: Going to make my own kerosene filter using a diaphragm pump and a series of increasingly fine oil filters
06:44 PM veegee: lets see how well this works out
06:44 PM veegee: fractional distillation would be much better and easier though
07:04 PM Javabean: just stay away from fram "oil filters", if you google around a bit, you would discover they aren't usually done right letting all contaminents through the casing and back into your engine
08:08 PM _unreal_: SOO pissed off with this guy that I was ordering the opamps from
08:09 PM _unreal_: roycroft, a FOOL sands with out a dust mask
08:10 PM _unreal_: I've been a nurse for years and years, and now I'm back in the yacht buisness. there is no such thing as sanding and safely with out a mask
08:12 PM _unreal_: even the highest most efficent down draft system will leave an eddy current in your bodys "air" mask. meaning air flowing past you. and you will get dust in your fast
08:12 PM _unreal_: face
08:13 PM _unreal_: veegee, omg I have not seen one of those in for ever
08:13 PM _unreal_: :) complete with mason jar LOL
08:15 PM _unreal_: dirty_d, any further progress?
08:41 PM roycroft: _unreal_: if the dust never escapes the sander it can't get in your lungs
08:41 PM roycroft: and the dust goes into the extractor which has a real hepa filter, not a "hepa" filter
08:41 PM roycroft: and the entire extractor is hepa rated, not just the filter
08:43 PM roycroft: there is virtually zero airborne dust when performing most sanding activities with the festool sanders (other brands, such as mirka, can perform nearly as well as or as well as festool - festool no longer have a monopoly on high efficiency extraction)
08:43 PM roycroft: when i'm doing things like edge sanding i know that the extractor is not able to work as efficiently, and i do wear a mask
08:43 PM roycroft: but sanding flat panels, there really is virtually zero airborne dust
08:44 PM roycroft: and no reason to use a tack rag on the work, because there's no dust on the surface to pick up
08:48 PM roycroft: so i'd appreciate your not calling me a fool when you don't know what you're talking about
09:47 PM _unreal_: sweet https://pay.ebay.com/rxo?action=success&sessionid=1261167034018
09:47 PM _unreal_: found the pulley I needed
09:49 PM Javabean: that is a login page
09:57 PM roycroft: of course it is, javabean - _unreal_ is asking someone else to pay for it
09:58 PM roycroft: and you have to log in to pay
09:58 PM Javabean: ... ano gakki... good thing i don't have any account tied to ebay
10:30 PM _unreal_: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-XL-48T-Timing-Belt-Pulley-Synchronous-Wheel-8mm-Bore-For-10mm-Width-Belt/392494766117?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
10:30 PM _unreal_: there
11:01 PM Elmo40: buy 3
11:01 PM Elmo40: one for spare
11:08 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
11:15 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
11:58 PM * _unreal_ does not need 3