#linuxcnc Logs
Feb 15 2020
#linuxcnc Calendar
02:09 AM Deejay: moin
03:46 AM BitEvil is now known as SpeedEvil
04:12 AM Tom_L: morning
05:04 AM jthornton: morning
05:05 AM XXCoder: hey
05:48 AM _unreal_: yawn
05:49 AM _unreal_: So I got spoofed again
05:49 AM _unreal_: the pickit3 I purchased is a knockoff
05:49 AM _unreal_: they "work" but it does not seem to be able to program my dspic
05:50 AM XXCoder: :(
05:58 AM XXCoder: jthornton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkXWbx0ektY
05:58 AM XXCoder: always fun to see how person setups shop
06:29 AM jthornton: till you get to the ad lol
06:29 AM XXCoder: yeah i just forward past it
06:40 AM _abc_: Hi. Is there any effort to port Axis from python 2.0 to 3.0 ? Or has that happened already?
06:42 AM XXCoder: i know theres efforts to move on from python 2.0, but more specific than that I dont know
06:46 AM jthornton: there have been several attempts to port LinuxCNC from python 2 to python 3
06:48 AM _abc_: But no success for now, right?
06:49 AM _abc_: I mean it's not ready for the next live release.
06:50 AM XXCoder: maybe we should get a dveeloper and setip patreon
06:50 AM jthornton: the attempts I know of are not in the "official" repository
06:51 AM jthornton: hmm dewey has a py3 branch dunno the status of that
06:53 AM jthornton: and some unknown person has created a python3_cython branch
06:53 AM jthornton: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc
06:53 AM jthornton: you can view all the branches there
06:54 AM _abc_: Sure. I mean there is no "official" effort under way, with some sort of roadmap or timetable?
06:54 AM jthornton: there is no "official" anything
06:54 AM _abc_: Well, official in the sense that the usual release developers are onto it. The people who make the live dvds for examople.
06:55 AM XXCoder: dont think anyone gets paid on linuxcnc job
06:55 AM _abc_: This is not necessarily paid work. None was so far afaik.
06:56 AM jthornton: the usual people have stepped down and are waiting for new people...
06:56 AM XXCoder: issue is that it takes time, and only few people can afford time
06:57 AM jthornton: more than time is the drive to do it
06:58 AM XXCoder: yeah
07:13 AM fogl81: hello
07:14 AM fogl81: is there a way to write a .comp module that is capable of sending ethernet frames
07:15 AM fogl81: i searched the git, but i could not find such .comp
07:15 AM fogl81: i am using rt_preempt kernel
07:24 AM fogl81: Now i found the hm2_eth.c driver, which seems to be the ethernet interface.
07:25 AM jthornton: yea that's for the Mesa Ethernet cards
07:25 AM fogl81: But i am not sure, is this also a hal component or is this seperate from hal.
07:26 AM jthornton: everything in /src/hal is a hal component
07:40 AM jymmmm: Good morning
07:41 AM Tom_L: hi mr jymmmmmmm
07:53 AM jymmmm: Hey Tom_L =)
07:59 AM _unreal_: so agravating all I want to do is program these damn dspics and I'm done
07:59 AM _unreal_: going to see if I can get this BS to work http://enomem12.blogspot.com/2016/06/arduino-dspic30f-programmer.html
08:09 AM Tom_L: _unreal_, iirc which has been a rather long time.. regular pics were programmed from 12v not 5 like you see there
08:10 AM _unreal_: Tom_L, the dspic30f4012 is a 5v program
08:10 AM _unreal_: not 12c
08:10 AM _unreal_: 12v
08:11 AM Tom_L: i'm suggesting that's why your previous one didn't work
08:11 AM Tom_L: and hoping you didn't damage the target
08:54 AM unterhaus: lowe's no longer has an option to see what is in stock at the local store. they are so worthless sometimes
09:23 AM unterhaus: it's funny the email list is going on about developing a new architecture and the community can't get a python 3 port done.
09:24 AM unterhaus: little bit of a disconnect
09:27 AM sync: that's because it is suprisingly annoying to do so
09:27 AM unterhaus: yeah, there is probably more motivation to start a failed new architecture than something like that
09:28 AM unterhaus: sometimes the failed new branches get really far before they fail
09:29 AM unterhaus: hal was the most amazing refactoring of linuxcnc, because it worked.
09:29 AM Tom_L: talk is free
09:31 AM unterhaus: I know, I'm pretty guilty of that, but that conversation is a bit annoying. It's a "somebody should" thread
09:32 AM Tom_L: remind them that they are part of that 'somebody' group
09:32 AM unterhaus: "it would be easy for you"
09:33 AM unterhaus: I liked the email where the originator said that coming up with ideas was a valuable contribution
09:33 AM unterhaus: nope
09:33 AM unterhaus: I came up with an idea where somebody finished all the wiring on my mill
10:18 AM _unreal_: arg... trying to get this compiled https://bitbucket.org/usbpicprog/usbpicprog-app/src/upp-serial-0.1/
10:18 AM _unreal_: http://enomem12.blogspot.com/2016/06/arduino-dspic30f-programmer.html
10:18 AM _unreal_: trying to do this so I can program my @#$#$ dspics
10:27 AM t4nk_freenode: hire an expert ;)
10:28 AM _unreal_: figured out part of the issue. I'm missing wxbase
10:28 AM _unreal_: installing now
10:29 AM * t4nk_freenode prepares the victory cake in anticipation
10:30 AM _unreal_: looks like its compiling now
10:30 AM t4nk_freenode: thereyago
10:30 AM t4nk_freenode: I'll keep the cigar on ice though!
10:30 AM _unreal_: fuck
10:31 AM _unreal_: hexfile.cpp:339:15: note: ‘std::ofstream’ {aka ‘std::basic_ofstream<char>’} is not derived from ‘const std::multimap<_Key, _Tp, _Compare, _Alloc>
10:33 AM _unreal_: t4nk_freenode, https://paste.centos.org/view/40520809
10:34 AM _unreal_: https://paste.centos.org/view/0f706063
10:36 AM t4nk_freenode: why don't you use binaries?
10:44 AM * t4nk_freenode takes the victory cake with one hand and extends the selfie-stick all the way... wait for it
10:44 AM * t4nk_freenode does a face-palm with the cake in hand
10:49 AM t4nk_freenode: I think you may have a perfectly fine pickit3(clone) though
10:51 AM t4nk_freenode: better to concentrate on that
10:53 AM _unreal_: its not working and I'm done messing with it
10:54 AM _unreal_: I've already spent about 6 hours trying to solve it and gotten no where
10:55 AM _unreal_: binaries not sure what your talking about?
10:56 AM t4nk_freenode: you are here, right: http://enomem12.blogspot.com/2016/06/arduino-dspic30f-programmer.html
10:56 AM t4nk_freenode: ?
10:56 AM _unreal_: yes
10:57 AM _unreal_: if your talking about pre-compiled I have not seen any
10:57 AM t4nk_freenode: what exactly were you compiling
10:57 AM _unreal_: https://bitbucket.org/usbpicprog/usbpicprog-app/src
10:58 AM _unreal_: under "SOFTWARE" THE Application paragraph
11:00 AM t4nk_freenode: https://sourceforge.net/projects/usbpicprog/files/usbpicprog-software/usbpicprog-0.9.9-1.0.0-beta-software/
11:00 AM t4nk_freenode: how about this?
11:00 AM _unreal_: have to use the modified version
11:01 AM t4nk_freenode: oh, that's just the plain version
11:01 AM _unreal_: right
11:01 AM _unreal_: so I can use the arduino
11:01 AM _unreal_: I dont have an ubuntu machine
11:01 AM t4nk_freenode: what os are you compiling on
11:01 AM _unreal_: fedora
11:01 AM _unreal_: 29
11:01 AM _unreal_: there is a compiled version https://www.dropbox.com/sh/itce21h4otzknp7/AAA4nvZnseL65ifnaYIm6T8la?dl=0
11:01 AM _unreal_: but I get an error when trying to run it
11:02 AM _unreal_: ./usbpicprog
11:02 AM _unreal_: ./usbpicprog: Symbol `_ZN5wxLog12ms_timestampE' has different size in shared object, consider re-linking
11:02 AM _unreal_: 11:55:07: Warning: Mismatch between the program and library build versions detected.
11:02 AM _unreal_: The library used 3.0 (wchar_t,compiler with C++ ABI 1013,wx containers,compatible with 2.8),
11:02 AM _unreal_: and your program used 3.0 (wchar_t,compiler with C++ ABI 1002,wx containers,compatible with 2.8).
11:02 AM _unreal_: Segmentation fault (core dumped)
11:04 AM Elmo40: yay. i love seg faults
11:04 AM Elmo40: >_<
11:05 AM _unreal_: seg fault?
11:06 AM t4nk_freenode: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/wx-users/bzXESX__828
11:06 AM t4nk_freenode: in any case, you are mixing up versions
11:08 AM t4nk_freenode: but that's no real mistery since it's presumably an older program
11:08 AM _unreal_: not sure how to correct it
11:08 AM Elmo40: yes, _unreal_ ... (seg)mentation fault...
11:08 AM Elmo40: means shit went SOUTH
11:08 AM _unreal_: and fast
11:09 AM t4nk_freenode: yeh, well,... it won't solve on its own, you'll need to familiarize yourself with the matter properly I'd say
11:09 AM t4nk_freenode: ..or hire an expert like I said ;)
11:10 AM Elmo40: what is 'C++ ABI 1002'?
11:10 AM t4nk_freenode: otherwise, read up and make sure you know what it is you are doing
11:10 AM Elmo40: "Your program is probably being built with different compiler version than the library was built. As a general rule, recompiling the library with the same compiler version should help."
11:10 AM Elmo40: there. simple fix.
11:11 AM t4nk_freenode: abi and api are similar
11:17 AM _unreal_: Elmo40, not sure how to do that
11:17 AM t4nk_freenode: _unreal_, another hint: https://github.com/eranif/codelite/issues/825
11:20 AM _unreal_: https://pastebin.com/VHMnEkYF
11:20 AM _unreal_: https://pastebin.com/qtdLEn4f
11:20 AM _unreal_: that is my /config and make
11:23 AM t4nk_freenode: the 'problem' is with wxwidgets, so you need to adapt that and then use the precompiled version of your software
11:24 AM _unreal_: no idea how
11:24 AM _unreal_: I just installed wxwidgets
11:24 AM _unreal_: an hour ago
11:24 AM t4nk_freenode: and you should then probably compile it yourself, but with the abi version change
11:25 AM t4nk_freenode: then the precompiled version of your software won't throw the error
11:25 AM _unreal_: I'd rather just comp[ile it I just dont know how to deal with the version change etc...
11:25 AM _unreal_: or that
11:26 AM _unreal_: if I can get the precompiled version to "load" I should be able to load the code onto my pic and be DONE
11:26 AM t4nk_freenode: so grab the code of wxwidgets, make the change and compile it
11:26 AM t4nk_freenode: is your best chance
11:26 AM _unreal_: dont know how to make the change
11:27 AM t4nk_freenode: but if you... don't know the concept.. then this may just not be for you I guess
11:31 AM _unreal_: I didnt compile wxwidget I apt installed it
11:32 AM _unreal_: I wonder if I did an ubuntu live boot
11:32 AM _unreal_: that software would work
11:33 AM t4nk_freenode: one from 2014, perhaps ;)
11:33 AM _unreal_: :p
11:33 AM t4nk_freenode: I'm not kidding too.
11:33 AM _unreal_: there are details on compiling for windows as well but thats beyond em
11:33 AM _unreal_: me
11:34 AM t4nk_freenode: apt-get won't do it for you, you'll need to compile wxwidgets yourself, that was the issue
11:35 AM t4nk_freenode: or, indeed, find a stone-age live dvd that has a more appropriate wxwidgets on board
11:35 AM _unreal_: I dont know tha wxwidget would be pre-installed
11:35 AM t4nk_freenode: but I'm afraid it cannot be put any simpler than this all
11:35 AM _unreal_: not liekly
11:36 AM t4nk_freenode: why don't you just buy a commercial solution, and be done with it
11:37 AM _unreal_: wxBase3-devel wxGTK3-devel
11:37 AM _unreal_: Thats what I installed
11:37 AM _unreal_: Thats what I tried to do
11:37 AM _unreal_: I need a @#$%@#%@$$ program that supports DSPIC
11:37 AM _unreal_: I have a half duzen programers and non of them support the dspic
11:37 AM _unreal_: and the pickit is a fake clone
11:38 AM _unreal_: pissis me off
11:38 AM _unreal_: I'm not paying $70 for a pickit4
11:38 AM t4nk_freenode: pickit is fine.
11:38 AM _unreal_: for something I'm going to use once.
11:38 AM _unreal_: its not fine
11:38 AM t4nk_freenode: yes it is
11:38 AM _unreal_: it will not comunicate
11:39 AM t4nk_freenode: yes it will ;)
11:40 AM t4nk_freenode: wish I had a pickit3 clone ;))
11:41 AM Elmo40: you can use apt-get but install the version to match.
11:41 AM t4nk_freenode: but I made my own pic programmer now
11:41 AM Elmo40: apt doesnt have to install the newest
11:41 AM _unreal_: Elmo40, I'm running feodra
11:41 AM _unreal_: how do I install the correct version then?
11:42 AM _unreal_: I've never msessed with installing specific build versions
11:43 AM Elmo40: people still use fedora? i thought it died.
11:43 AM Elmo40: how redhat and suse should just DIE
11:44 AM t4nk_freenode: and ubuntu :)
11:44 AM _unreal_: lol
11:44 AM Elmo40: 100% 'buntu should fucking DIE
11:45 AM Elmo40: they ruined a LOT of things.
11:45 AM Elmo40: they shouldn't even call themselves a branch of Debian anymore.
11:45 AM t4nk_freenode: I've used kubuntu for years and years though, but I've parted with it in the end
11:45 AM t4nk_freenode: finally discovered that a rolling release is the way to go
11:46 AM Elmo40: i understand the 'it is open source so anyone can mess with it and compile their own distro' but come on... this is how everything goes wrong. Divide and be conquered!
11:47 AM t4nk_freenode: I'm a happy gentoo user now
11:47 AM Elmo40: just stick with LFS and we'd all be just fine. Wouldn't you prefer picking the kernel, compiling libraries and programs and X server...? O_o
11:47 AM Elmo40: </sarcasm>
11:48 AM Elmo40: on a side note... would doubling the RAM with a slower speed still be worth doubling?
11:48 AM t4nk_freenode: hehe.. qtwebengine takes me 40mins to compile, but.. yes, I prefer it ;)
11:49 AM t4nk_freenode: dependig on how much ram you have to begin with, I'd say yes, probably
11:49 AM t4nk_freenode: well, the biggest factor is the number of cores you use to compile though
11:49 AM t4nk_freenode: one thread can take up to 2G of ram
11:51 AM _unreal_: ok just did a --showduplicates list and its only showing the latest build version, in 32 and 64bit flavors
11:51 AM _unreal_: so I have to compile from scratch I guess?
11:51 AM _unreal_: wxBase3-devel wxGTK3-devel
11:52 AM _unreal_: https://paste.centos.org/view/246886b4
11:53 AM Elmo40: i think more RAM is better than less RAM, even if it is 1 step slower in speed.
11:54 AM _unreal_: cheers
11:54 AM Elmo40: actually, the machine will go from 8 to 12GB.
11:54 AM Elmo40: tripling the RAM
11:54 AM Elmo40: wait. not 8 to 12. shit. my brain is still in need of COFFEE!
11:55 AM * t4nk_freenode sips his
11:55 AM Elmo40: yes, triple. 8 to 24GB.
11:55 AM Elmo40: 1 stick to 3 sticks of 8.
11:55 AM t4nk_freenode: I got 16G on a 16threads machine
11:56 AM Javabean: meh, 3 sticks of 4gb is ok too
11:56 AM t4nk_freenode: could have done with 32G, but I'm not dissatisfied with 16 and I can make it work alternating between gcc and clang
11:56 AM Elmo40: i have 32 on my laptop. 104GB of DDR4 on my Xeon machine.
11:57 AM t4nk_freenode: when I'm not compiling, 16G is way plenty to run my system
11:57 AM Elmo40: max the board. that is the best thing you can do.
11:59 AM t4nk_freenode: thinking about buying some 'turbo concrete' tomorrow, test how strong it is
12:07 PM Elmo40: for?
12:08 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm thinking about using it for a base of a small metal lathe
12:08 PM t4nk_freenode: emphasis on small
12:09 PM t4nk_freenode: so I'm wondering how strong it is if I would pour it into a u-shape
12:09 PM t4nk_freenode: not that I'm going to use it in that configuration, but I'd like to know how much force it could take
12:10 PM Elmo40: to bolt the lathe ?
12:10 PM t4nk_freenode: yes
12:10 PM Elmo40: sure. why not.
12:10 PM Elmo40: small as in what, 8x32
12:10 PM t4nk_freenode: I have no idea yet
12:11 PM t4nk_freenode: just curious how it would behave if I pour it into a u-shape, and then put a bolt into the sides and fasten it to pull the sides together
12:11 PM t4nk_freenode: if it would break easily
12:12 PM t4nk_freenode: and then test what dimensions are strongest
12:14 PM t4nk_freenode: and otherwise I would just pour a cake-shape and fit a strip of steel on top
12:14 PM Elmo40: add mesh
12:14 PM gregcnc: for use as a stand?
12:14 PM Elmo40: and possible threaded rod the full length, to tighten it up.
12:16 PM flyback: B
12:16 PM flyback: M
12:16 PM flyback: C
12:16 PM flyback: C
12:16 PM flyback: :P
12:16 PM flyback: heh it's neat how many times people use that threaded rod thing
12:16 PM flyback: oh you aren't talking actuator
12:17 PM t4nk_freenode: I would be talking actuator.
12:17 PM gregcnc: now I'm confused concrete actuator?
12:18 PM t4nk_freenode: I think he means using the threaded rod not to fortify but to actuate
12:19 PM Elmo40: apply tension within the concrete. adds strength. what they do for bridges and such.
12:19 PM gregcnc: post tension
12:20 PM gregcnc: but what is this concrete thing for?
12:21 PM t4nk_freenode: so to be more clear, I'd like to know that if I made a u-shape... and make the standing sides.. say 1cm thick.. and then drive a bolt through both sides and start fastening them.. how strong it would be
12:21 PM t4nk_freenode: or if it would break just like that
12:21 PM gregcnc: 1cm thick concrete?
12:22 PM t4nk_freenode: I want to explore the limits of that, I have no idea at all about how the stuff behaves
12:22 PM gregcnc: slightly better than cheese?
12:22 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
12:23 PM gregcnc: there is a reason everythign in concrete is massive
12:23 PM t4nk_freenode: I'd have no problem using thicker parts, except for the weight probably
12:23 PM gregcnc: ~4000psi compression, 400psi tension
12:26 PM gregcnc: light thin and concrete means, don't use concrete
12:31 PM * _abc_ hands gregcnc a stressed concrete-steel structural manual.
12:31 PM _unreal_: sigh
12:31 PM gregcnc: diy right?
12:31 PM _abc_: not quite but you can do some stuff with rebar and or steel cables
12:31 PM gregcnc: 1cm thick right?
12:32 PM _abc_: t4nk_freenode: you need to look into structural design
12:32 PM gregcnc: and U shaped
12:32 PM _abc_: gregcnc: ceilings are frequently about that thin with dense wire mesh as carrier and either vaulted / arched or support lifting strings, metal, leading up to beams
12:33 PM _abc_: gregcnc: fancy stucco ceilings in old buildings in particular.
12:33 PM gregcnc: and they support what load?
12:33 PM gloops: a bolt through a U shape?
12:33 PM gloops: youd need a spacer inside the U
12:33 PM _abc_: Themselves normally, which is bad enough, since various other decorations in plaster of paris hang off of them
12:34 PM _abc_: The 1cm thick U walls are not a real problem if the U arms are short.
12:34 PM _abc_: Bending/shearing is a bad idea for concrete
12:34 PM gregcnc: the projhect is not well defined, there was something about putting a lathe on it, i'm not sure
12:35 PM _abc_: lathe? On concrete? You're doing it wrong imo
12:35 PM gregcnc: i have no idea questions weren't answered
12:35 PM gloops: i suppose it depends on whats meant by concrete
12:36 PM gloops: reinforced epoxy compound...or portland cement + sand etc
12:36 PM _abc_: Yes. Remember they make insane arches out of concrete but they are not under tension most of the time.
12:36 PM _abc_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natchez_Trace_Parkway_Bridge fun shapes too
12:37 PM _abc_: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Natchez_Trace_Parkway_Bridge_%28side%29.jpg I assume the horizontal lart is mostly steel under the concrete but am not sure.
12:39 PM _abc_: And no it is concrete, it's in the text
12:45 PM JesseG: Hey guys, what do you do for tiny drill bits? Most 1/2" capacity chucks don't grab a tiny drill bit.
12:46 PM JesseG: I could put salvage a chuck from a small hand drill and mount that with a shaft to put in my bigger chuck, but that just adds to my total runout
12:49 PM JesseG: Also, do they have keyless non-self tightening chunks for mills?
12:49 PM JesseG: Not needing to grab the key is mighty handy.
12:50 PM JesseG: But being unable to back out a tap without your chuck letting go can be annoying :P
12:52 PM t4nk_freenode: I was at the stores
12:53 PM t4nk_freenode: that spacer is a good idea
12:53 PM p0g0__: t4nk_freenode, fwiw, I've used what was called "grade 5" aka "nuclear power plant grade" concrete. It is very hard, has terrific compression strength, but basically worthless under tension. If you go with a lot of rebar, that begs the question "why not just use steel".
12:53 PM t4nk_freenode: I was having a look at the gingery books 'the metal lathe'
12:54 PM t4nk_freenode: and I want to melt some alu, but I wanted to replace the base with concrete so I wouldn't have to pour so much for the base
12:54 PM t4nk_freenode: and keep things small
12:55 PM p0g0__: & hi _abc_
12:55 PM _abc_: hi p0g0__
12:56 PM t4nk_freenode: I've seen some youtube video's where they had a concrete base, but I want to build a 'miniature version'
12:57 PM t4nk_freenode: rest of my 'u-shape' mentions are just my imaginings
12:57 PM t4nk_freenode: though I was really wondering
12:58 PM _abc_: Would a m.2 interface on a chipset "replace" a sata channel or ar these 2 completely different things? I have a laptop in view which comes either with m.2 or with sata disk but the same mobo is used on both, the reciprocal connector is simply not soldered on. Cheapskates.
12:59 PM _abc_: So if I get that unit and solder on a connector which I can do, can I end up with wasted time or will both work?
12:59 PM _abc_: In theory.
01:01 PM p0g0__: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2 (sez it's up to the folks that make the board)
01:01 PM p0g0__: So it may not be supported, or it might.
01:01 PM t4nk_freenode: maybe soldering the connector alone would work, but there may also be a matter of software drivers
01:02 PM _abc_: That would be surprizing. It's the same unit. Just a 2 letter US company playing cheapskate.
01:03 PM p0g0__: Or seeing a chance to sell the same thing twice.
01:03 PM p0g0__: And that will get their attention.
01:03 PM _abc_: Yeah. Sears & Roebuck standard marketing tactic, make 2-3 different "versions" of the same thing, charge for each.
01:04 PM _abc_: "obtain the invaluable deer in the headlights look in the customer by presenting as many confusing options as needed"
01:04 PM _abc_: I have that from th emarketing course I took err sometime in 1992 I think
01:04 PM p0g0__: Ah, you understand how to sell insurance then.
01:05 PM t4nk_freenode: btw, gregcnc, how about 'cement floors'.. they take weight, and are thin? it's not that I'd have to lift a cow ;)
01:05 PM p0g0__: thin slabs crack
01:06 PM _abc_: wow I remember when MFM hdd's were connected to parallel data buses with normal select signals https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/SATA_Express_interface.svg/420px-SATA_Express_interface.svg.png
01:06 PM _abc_: t4nk_freenode: lots of people replaced metal with conrete over the years. Concrete barges (floating) come to mind.
01:06 PM p0g0__: t4nk_freenode, And they tend to design them based on both the load and the underlying foundation/soil.
01:06 PM t4nk_freenode: I need to be at the hardware store tomorrow anyhow, I'll invest 8euro in some quick concrete and test
01:07 PM p0g0__: Yeah, I nearly bought a concrete sailboot once, decades back
01:07 PM _abc_: t4nk_freenode: the solution is to change proportions to acommodate concrete's different bending and pulling strength
01:07 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
01:07 PM p0g0__: *sailboat
01:07 PM _abc_: t4nk_freenode: you'll also need some filler sand of the right kind and GLOVES. concrete is a stron base like lye and will eat your skin.
01:08 PM _abc_: Also do not get it into your eyes.
01:08 PM t4nk_freenode: the idea was that as long as the concrete IS holding, it would be more rigid than aluminium or wood
01:08 PM p0g0__: t4nk_freenode, I live near a bunch of reclaimed strip mines- they keep trying to build on them, and in not many years, sort out that there isn't anything solid under them, and all the slabs crack (or worse).
01:08 PM _abc_: It is. Concrete tables exist and they are okay if proportioned right
01:08 PM gregcnc: there is doubt of what is possible with concrete, but you have to understand what's going on
01:09 PM gregcnc: actual lathe, just cast a huge block and hope you never have to move it.
01:09 PM p0g0__: Yeah, concrete tables are great for some things. Yes concrete will lift a little skin, but it won't kill you or anything like that.
01:10 PM _abc_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_ship you can read this for fun t4nk_freenode
01:10 PM gregcnc: there are plenty of concrete machine builds on YT
01:10 PM _abc_: also a lot of machine foundations are made of concrete cast in place using a prescribed pattern or a standard one
01:10 PM p0g0__: I have a large block of concrete near the house, it's big even for the bulldozer. You end up making stuff like that some kind of yard art.
01:10 PM _abc_: p0g0__: you declare anything that is too big to move art, right?
01:10 PM p0g0__: It was a foundation for a chimney....
01:11 PM p0g0__: That or "home"
01:12 PM p0g0__: You can move slabs of concrete on rollers if the ground can handle it (lay boards etc as needed), if you can elevate it enough to get the pipes under it.
01:12 PM gregcnc: I was thinking about building a lathe on a slab of grnaite
01:12 PM gregcnc: granite
01:12 PM p0g0__: You got the granite?
01:13 PM gregcnc: but never got around to it. I did build a concrete cloumn for my first mill and it was post tensioned with 4 threaded rods
01:13 PM _abc_: Some people reuse botched/cracked granite tops from the kitchen as foundation plate for cnc style lathes and so on
01:13 PM gregcnc: sure
01:16 PM p0g0__: for the perfectionist: from my misspent youth rock climbing in Colorado, we liked basalt a bit better than granite- basically the same stuff with slightly slower cooling, so , smaller grain size, less internal stress and less friable (holds pitons and chocks better), tho granite Really Good compared to most rock.
01:18 PM _abc_: I don't know if anyone does desktops in basalt. Marble and granite yes.
01:18 PM t4nk_freenode: in any case.. I'll have to be careful indeed not to cast something I won't be able to move
01:19 PM p0g0__: Marble is friable as heck.
01:20 PM p0g0__: t4nk_freenode, if you do cast something, make some insets in the casting that you can lift from, it's that first few mm that's the hard part.
01:20 PM _abc_: Marble is friable but not too bad once righted/planed
01:21 PM p0g0__: _abc_ yes, and it is lovely stuff.
01:22 PM _abc_: Turns out they make basalt tabletops too.
01:22 PM _abc_: Some in Vietnam of all places
01:22 PM _abc_: Manufactured there.
01:23 PM _abc_: 1st hit on Google.
01:23 PM p0g0__: The Ordovician limestone beds start about 10 miles west of here- given some more geologic time, we'll have cheap marble, now we just have cheap gravel.
01:23 PM _abc_: heh
01:24 PM _abc_: Seems it's hard to find a basalt column which is wide enough to make a decent sized desktop from.
01:25 PM p0g0__: That seems odd, there are mountains of the stuff in Colorado, heck there's even the town of Basalt (tho literally not that far from the town of Marble)...
01:26 PM _abc_: https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant%27s_Causeway maybe here.
01:26 PM _abc_: https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant%27s_Causeway#/media/Fi%C8%99ier:Causeway-code_poet-4.jpg
01:31 PM p0g0__: nifty hexagons... I have a picture I took when boating the Colorado River, near Horsethief Canyon- the river had drilled a nigh perfect hole in a basalt boulder, about 5"x 20" or so, polished like sea glass.
01:38 PM _abc_: these guys can make tabletops. Large ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paran%C3%A1_and_Etendeka_traps
01:40 PM t4nk_freenode: just saw a jap on youtube, using lego bricks to make a mold for concrete
01:40 PM _abc_: t4nk_freenode: you can use anything, but some things only once
01:41 PM _abc_: Papier mache works, waxed, backed by sand or dirt
01:42 PM p0g0__: be aware that the stuff is HEAVY
01:42 PM p0g0__: It will stress your molds if there is any heigh to the pour.
01:42 PM _abc_: But not heavyer than the input materials summed :)
01:43 PM p0g0__: wet concrete is thixitropic, and will flow readily when agitated
01:43 PM p0g0__: and if you agitate it too much, all the gravel settles out.
01:45 PM _abc_: t4nk_freenode: you know there are concrete and plaster of paris printers on youtube, diy, right?
01:45 PM _abc_: For smaller things.
01:46 PM p0g0__: And there are Big ones too now, basically printing houses.
01:46 PM _abc_: I mean the small ones which print with water onto a bed of powder
01:46 PM _abc_: "powder bed 3d printing"
01:46 PM _abc_: very unlike the normal nozzle extruded way
01:47 PM _abc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoQOz04VEkI principle
01:47 PM p0g0__: hmm, do you keep adding powder?
01:47 PM _abc_: Yes.
01:47 PM _abc_: Wait a second
01:47 PM _abc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixuO-4IBRHg
01:48 PM p0g0__: concrete epitaxy
01:48 PM _abc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmFXj70VGfg this is a diy one which works nicely
01:49 PM _abc_: A simple material to print onto is casting sugar. The binder is syrup or water.
01:49 PM p0g0__: t4nk_freenode, one last caution- dry powdered concrete doesn't store well in even slight humidity- it may look fine, but it will have already hydrated some, and make a weaker concrete.
01:50 PM p0g0__: So, get fresh bags.
01:50 PM _abc_: https://youtu.be/BmFXj70VGfg?t=80 very nice
01:51 PM p0g0__: _abc_ I'll catch up sometime, I am off to play more with my new toy (a Maslow cnc mill). pax
01:51 PM _abc_: ok. Bye
01:55 PM _abc_: At this point I'd like to see a nice diy concrete pump with accurate control and pullback ability...
01:56 PM _abc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uylbGgOjcQM hmm. Auger pump?
01:59 PM _abc_: So it prints with hardener (whatever that is? cyanoacrylate perhaps) into the "mud" volume which is both support material and provides material for the print? Or not?
02:00 PM _abc_: 'Mortar + water + viscosity regulator used as "ink"
02:01 PM t4nk_freenode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_USZAKBb1OE this is nice
02:01 PM t4nk_freenode: "Note: The beams weighed about 3 lbs, this beam held 530 lbs, and the maximum weight held was about 650 lbs."
02:02 PM _abc_: So mortar printing into clay. Why does it harden at the nozzle?!
02:02 PM _abc_: I don't get it.
02:02 PM _abc_: They must have put some accelerant hardener for concrete in the clay, or the clay is special.
02:10 PM gloops: whats the concrete beam going to be for t4nk_freenode ?
02:17 PM t4nk_freenode: I'm just wondering about the strength, gloops, nothing more for now. Or else it would be used for building a very small metal lathe
02:18 PM t4nk_freenode: but I found that 3lbs reinforced beam holding 650lbs.. impressive
02:20 PM gloops: ahh ok, you'll probably have seen the old war plans for concrete machines
02:21 PM t4nk_freenode: I had a look at the gingery books, I'd like to build a small foundry to melt aluminium, just for messing around, just for fun
02:22 PM t4nk_freenode: but if I want to follow the book to build a metal lathe to scale.. I reckon I'd still need way more metal to pour the base than I can realistically make
02:22 PM t4nk_freenode: hence I wanted to pour the base from concrete
02:27 PM _abc_: re
02:34 PM _abc_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cement_accelerator Aha, likely CaCl2 (road salt in USA afaik) is added to the clay "bath"
02:36 PM t4nk_freenode: but uhm.. what gets printed is mostly for decoration?
02:38 PM gloops: when i was building my router using the advice of the people in here a few years back, i poured 4kg of aluminium, and got a nice little explosion + molten ally shower lol
02:40 PM t4nk_freenode: lol
02:41 PM _abc_: t4nk_freenode: yes that is not a solution for your problem. Even with CaCl2 2% the cement will take a minimum of a few minutes to set, a document I found says 12 mins to 1in penetration "hold". Think printing at a snail's pace, literally.
02:42 PM _abc_: gloops: no doubt did not dry / prefire the mold
02:42 PM gloops: well, i did heat the mold - i later deduced it was the stone (the mold was a slab of stone)
02:43 PM _abc_: Some stones are porous. Heated it properly above 120 degC for a few hours?
02:44 PM gloops: the stone had thin layers of strata, i think what happened was the heat caused the upper strata layers to expand - but the lower layers were still cold and didnt move
02:44 PM gloops: layers of the stone had blown off when i examined the mold
02:45 PM gloops: it was scary - huge bang like a bomb going off, aluminium everywhere, about 30ft diameter
02:45 PM t4nk_freenode: whoa
02:46 PM _abc_: Ah so shotcrete with accelerant can be made to set in 1 min and gain final strength in 4 mins. Interesting, that is quite fast.
02:47 PM _abc_: gloops: you picked vermiculite ? :) :)
02:47 PM t4nk_freenode: I'd just want to use a can's worth of metal to melt at most, and I'd use molds made of sand and clay
02:48 PM gloops: _abc_ just some kind of sandstone that was laying around, i didnt heat the mold all through, just had a roofing torch on the top for 10 minutes so, interestingly enough that didnt cause it to bloe
02:48 PM gloops: blow
02:48 PM gloops: my advice would be - use a pot with a long handle
02:50 PM gloops: you see youtube vids of people with gingery furnaces pouring metal in shorts and bare feet - dont be so stupid lol
02:50 PM _abc_: Right, sandstone is always a bad idea in a fire. It explodes. Even if you make a hearth out of it
02:50 PM _abc_: gloops: you can pour molten metal dressed any way you want, once.
02:50 PM gloops: well that was one bit of research i didnt do
02:51 PM gloops: i did make some plates though - made a steel mold, worked fine
02:51 PM _abc_: gloops: if you make a hot enough camp wire using sandstone bits you will get rained on with burning embers and wood.
02:51 PM _abc_: Possibly in the face too. There is no warning usually.\
02:51 PM _abc_: Rained/sprayed etc
02:52 PM gloops: never crossed my mind at the time, im one of these people that looks for whatever is laying around that looks suitable for the immediate task in hand
02:52 PM _abc_: A ceramic tile would have been a better idea.
02:52 PM _abc_: After properly roasting it to remove tension and humidity
02:52 PM _abc_: s/tension/strain/
02:54 PM gloops: there was someone in here who made a gingery furnace, ended up making loads of parts he was selling, he posts on facebook, regular orders, he makes a living from melting scrap ally and machining it
02:55 PM _abc_: Lots of people like that in India. I am amazed by some of them's skill.
02:55 PM _abc_: Casting motorcycle gearbox parts in sand while kneeling. That's 5mm thick material and crazy complex shape.
02:56 PM _abc_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHMn92SAlgY watch this, it is amazing
02:57 PM gloops: yeah, cant beat the old way of doing things
02:57 PM _abc_: It's not too old, it's "right". The man has golden hands.
02:59 PM gloops: unreal, he knows his stuff
02:59 PM gloops: that sand looks a beautiful consistency for that
03:00 PM gloops: that furnace is similar to the crucible furnaces - used by romans
03:01 PM gloops: also note - one foot bare, the other bandaged, a little spill maybe
03:05 PM _abc_: Yes. And the "alloy" he makes and maintains - the heap of various Mg Al scrap ...
03:05 PM _unreal_: ve7it, just did my first motion test with the new machine on the Y axis
03:05 PM _unreal_: just direct PSU. using a switching PSU
03:06 PM _unreal_: this machine is going to be DIRT train slow. strong like hell dirt train slow
03:06 PM ve7it: hey... did you get your programmer working?
03:06 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I used a 24v switching psu to test
03:06 PM _unreal_: no
03:06 PM _unreal_: ve7it, I found this http://enomem12.blogspot.com/2016/06/arduino-dspic30f-programmer.html
03:07 PM _unreal_: I cant get it compiled
03:07 PM _unreal_: I've got the arduino programmed
03:07 PM _unreal_: the source code is there ETC... but my compiling etc.. skills are not high enough to get that thing working. its all out dated stuff
03:09 PM _unreal_: I assume if I can get the software compiled and working I "should" be able to burn the pic finally
03:09 PM _unreal_: That is all that is holding me up
03:09 PM _unreal_: can the servo controller handle higher voltage? aside from the 7805? I have 50v caps on it
03:11 PM ve7it: bummer..... that dspic programmer looks interesting .... not obvious where the details are
03:11 PM _unreal_: which detials?
03:11 PM _unreal_: application and arduino software paragraphs
03:11 PM _unreal_: have the files
03:11 PM _unreal_: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/itce21h4otzknp7/AAA4nvZnseL65ifnaYIm6T8la?dl=0
03:12 PM _unreal_: https://bitbucket.org/usbpicprog/usbpicprog-app/src
03:12 PM ve7it: ah... didnt read enough
03:12 PM _unreal_: ya took me a few as well
03:12 PM _unreal_: I tried several "hacks" on the clone pickit3 and it will NOT work with the dspics
03:13 PM _unreal_: reads other pics fine but it doesnt like the dspics
03:13 PM _unreal_: dont know why
03:13 PM t4nk_freenode: lol, his fvorite sand-stamping foot was his right one :)
03:13 PM _unreal_: what?
03:13 PM _unreal_: random
03:13 PM ve7it: got to run.... help father in law set up a new PC
03:13 PM ve7it: I dont do windows!
03:13 PM _unreal_: the software is for linux
03:14 PM _abc_: doing windows is like doing hemorrhoids. I had to say it.
03:14 PM _unreal_: and all of my cad software runs on it :(
03:22 PM t4nk_freenode: heh, they don't even use water to cool the alu in India.. guess it's a waste
03:24 PM _abc_: Looks like a very dry area to me.
04:37 PM _unreal_: There I just finished soldering all of the jumper wires I've been neglecting to solder on the servo boards
04:39 PM _unreal_: ve7it, after doing my test a few hours ago I'm wondering if I should have used a higher voltage psu?
04:40 PM p0g0__: There are circumstances where AL & water and high T make for a real mess, and if you are going to smelt aluminum, you should read up on Al+++, and fumes-both are pretty bad news.
04:42 PM _unreal_: p0g0__, RANDOM
04:42 PM p0g0__: You might also read up on the 9/11 tower fires- the AL + water + Fe + aircraft fuel was essentially thermite above ignition temperature.
04:42 PM p0g0__: Random what?
04:42 PM _unreal_: hour later responce
04:42 PM _unreal_: hehe
04:43 PM p0g0__: Oh, belatedly random
04:43 PM _unreal_: OMG this lack of a programmer is driving me nuts for these bleeping pic chipos
04:43 PM _unreal_: chips
04:43 PM _unreal_: my clone pickit is fubar, I cant get this to compile http://enomem12.blogspot.com/2016/06/arduino-dspic30f-programmer.html
05:00 PM t4nk_freenode: I think everyone knows that, _unreal_
05:01 PM _unreal_: one cant be to sure
05:01 PM t4nk_freenode: one can be sure that pasting this, randomly, ... will do nothing to solve it
05:01 PM t4nk_freenode: your options are there, and 'easy', you just won't do anything about it
05:01 PM _unreal_: I just ordered the pic for this http://usbpicprog.org/
06:06 PM pink_vampire: hi
06:06 PM XXCoder: hey pink!
06:06 PM pink_vampire: long time
06:07 PM pink_vampire: https://i.imgur.com/od4JfWG.png
06:08 PM XXCoder: 3d printed brackets?
06:08 PM pink_vampire: yes
06:08 PM XXCoder: nice
06:10 PM pink_vampire: I need a way to put the lathe tailstock stuff
06:10 PM pink_vampire: dead center, live center, drill chuck
06:10 PM XXCoder: work we just use wood box with thin top, holes drilled in it in such way it can hold em
06:13 PM pink_vampire: I hate wood
06:14 PM XXCoder: lol ok
06:14 PM XXCoder: brb
06:18 PM XXCoder: back
06:18 PM XXCoder: had to reboot
06:37 PM Tom_L: .
06:37 PM Elmo40: .
06:50 PM XXCoder: ..
06:51 PM pink_vampire: .... ..
06:52 PM Tom_L: ...---...
06:53 PM pink_vampire: .- .-. . -.-- --- ..- --- -.-
07:31 PM _unreal_: nifty
07:32 PM _unreal_: XXCoder, I did my first TEST move on the Y axis
07:32 PM _unreal_: I want more voltage
07:32 PM XXCoder: :)
07:33 PM _unreal_: I knew it was going to be slow and powerful but its slower then I thought
07:33 PM * Javabean thanks unreal for reminding him that he hasn't been reading 'nifty darn comics' in a while
07:33 PM _unreal_: ?
07:33 PM _unreal_: pink_vampire, any load supports for those hangers or strong enough?
07:34 PM _unreal_: pink_vampire, unless I'm mistaken some of those tools look like "DOM DOM DOM......." Harbor freight
07:35 PM pink_vampire: 100% infill, it is VERY strong
07:35 PM pink_vampire: yeah, every one of us have some HF
07:35 PM _unreal_: I forget what its called but have you ever tested played with the over/under layer scheme?
07:36 PM _unreal_: pink_vampire, ?
07:37 PM pink_vampire: I was printed them on the side, so the layers will be vertical after installation
07:38 PM _unreal_: I saw something about a layer scheme where it staggers the layers. and doubles up some of them then as it goes along it it crosses the layers so you get a square wave if you will looking at it from a side profile
07:38 PM _unreal_: and the layer goes over some layers then under some layers up and down. locking the layers in
07:38 PM _unreal_: instead of just being layer on top of layer
07:39 PM pink_vampire: are you talking about ironing?
07:39 PM _unreal_: as in heat?
07:39 PM _unreal_: heat no
07:40 PM _unreal_: the best way to describe it would be | . | . | . |
07:40 PM _unreal_: the best way to describe it would be . | . | . | . |
07:40 PM pink_vampire: ironing can make the part look nicer on curve surfaces
07:41 PM pink_vampire: I have no idea
07:41 PM _unreal_: its a form of 3D 3d printing
07:41 PM _unreal_: if I can find it I'll link ya.
07:41 PM _unreal_: think of it like weaving
07:41 PM _unreal_: over under
07:42 PM _unreal_: part ends up being WAY stronger
07:42 PM _unreal_: less of a thermal bond and more of a machanical
07:42 PM pink_vampire: do you have a picture / link?
07:43 PM _unreal_: this is not it really but shows 3D 3d printing https://3dprinting.com/how-to/no-layer-lines-with-non-planar-fdm-3d-printing/
07:44 PM _unreal_: watch the video
07:44 PM XXCoder: ah non-planar
07:46 PM pink_vampire: yeah this is ironing
07:46 PM _unreal_: ironing?
07:47 PM pink_vampire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNpFN__16CM
07:47 PM pink_vampire: he explain it better
07:47 PM XXCoder: he uses non-planar term also
07:48 PM pink_vampire: you basically go over the part with the nozzle and "iron" the surface
07:49 PM pink_vampire: you can also make texture to your parts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh5wC4Ti95s
07:50 PM _unreal_: the process I'm talking about staggers the heights of the layers and then on the next pass dips into the previous layer and back to the new layer. over laping. GOD I wish I could remember what its called. I dont have a 3d printer so I have not payed much attention to it
07:51 PM pink_vampire: non-planar ironing
07:57 PM Jymmm: Mars ironing?
07:58 PM XXCoder: irony ironing
08:03 PM CaptHindsight: layerless FDM
08:04 PM CaptHindsight: http://utw10945.utweb.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/2015/2015-5-Kanada.pdf
08:05 PM X704 is now known as tiwake
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: https://youtu.be/eNpFN__16CM?t=61
08:07 PM CaptHindsight: in action https://youtu.be/eNpFN__16CM?t=184
08:10 PM XXCoder: did you actually read? :)
08:11 PM XXCoder: pink linked to same video as you
08:11 PM CaptHindsight: oh noes
08:12 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNpFN__16CM
08:13 PM CaptHindsight: yes i jumped 3 minutes in
08:16 PM pink_vampire: O_o
08:16 PM CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL3kVtc-4vY&list=PLbaramj7Nly7wLrSWkQ8PsC9g-lRhNZgw
08:17 PM pink_vampire: I'm freezing!!
08:19 PM XXCoder: capt yep love nilered (theres secondary channel nileblue)
08:36 PM * _unreal_ is sweating
08:36 PM _unreal_: hell I have the fan and the AC on
08:37 PM _unreal_: >:) got to love the tropics
09:10 PM _unreal_: ve7it, how did the computing go?
09:56 PM _unreal_: wow, just changed out a bearing on my small cnc machine, what a difference
10:00 PM XXCoder: nice
10:17 PM fjungclaus1 is now known as fjungclaus